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Spoilers and Speculation


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11 minutes ago, nodorothyparker said:

If you'd managed to get Daryl in a little black dress, I would have been seriously impressed.

Shit. You know I can do that.

DONE.

Off to get some mental help now.

Edited by AngelaHunter
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On 11/15/2018 at 4:51 PM, OoohMaggie said:

New WD set art

Uh Oh, look who’s front and centre,

89DC6114-8E87-4905-BF49-46785ED9FE24.jpeg

This is great poster and an improvement over the ones from the last two seasons. Yeah, Michonne should be in the middle where Dary is, but Danai might be leaving so AMC is probably hedging its bets. I will never forget how all the promotional materials for season seven were JDM as Negan. It was crazy. I never have seen a show invest so much in a villian who the audience had only seen for a couple seconds. I was in the library and there was Negan on all the DVD covers. Season eight was all Rick vs. Negan with the others in the background. this poster indicates AMC has learnt its lesson or at least, we'll see if it has.

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Although I am nearly over this show for oh-so many reasons, I do note that in the new poster (or whatever it is) there is not even a shadow or glimmer of Negan, not even a shot of his bat. Now, I understand. He’s the big baddie and , frankly, he should be dead. But he isn’t. He’s alive — but why? Then think about this new poster. I wonder if months ago TPTB had certain big and gloriously wicked plans for Negan but then they started to see just how much hated Negan was, and not just because of what he’d done, but the way he (both character AND actor) preened and danced with glee while rhapsodizing about his dick. But they still had the actor under contract. Conundrum!!! So, I wonder, what’s the plan for Negan????  Will they hope people forget about him? Certainly, he’s not going to be our group’s savior (pun intended) when the Whisperers strike? Or, will he????

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1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

Certainly, he’s not going to be our group’s savior (pun intended) when the Whisperers strike?

These "Whisperers" now: They don't appear to be in much better condition than the walkers, from what we saw. Or maybe it's all a big diabolical plot that they dress in rags, all dye their hair black and comb it down over their faces and shuffle around the woods, all to fool innocent folk? Seems a little time consuming.

 

1 hour ago, JackONeill said:

I wonder if months ago TPTB had certain big and gloriously wicked plans for Negan but then they started to see just how much hated Negan was, and not just because of what he’d done, but the way he (both character AND actor) preened and danced with glee while rhapsodizing about his dick

Bashing a few heads, keeping sex slaves and bragging about his dick - truly the idol of 13-year old boys everywhere. Other than killing Glenn and Abe, what has Negan actually done in the last 50 years we've had him crammed down our throats? Oh, he burned some mattresses, talked incessantly and showed himself to be invulnerable to a hail of bullets. Now he sits in a cell, mourning a baseball bat and spouting parables to an annoying child. Am I forgetting something of significance he's done? Some reason to keep him around for years?

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AngelaHunter—You raised an interesting point. I am only aware of who the Whisperers are because of this board. I don't read the comics. (I don't like Kirkman enough because of the TV series. Just imagine if I read the comics?!?)

But back to the Whisperers—They're people who are like Rick and Glenn did at the beginning of the series, and as Nick (you know—from the other show) who realized that if you smear yourself with Walker innards you become "invisible." So, whoever the Whisperers are—beynd being living people—they cover themselves in people's skins (That will be pleasant to watch!) But so?? I mean—SO????  Does that give them some super-power against a living person? Think about it—If you spot a Walker coming toward you, you prepare to kill it. Okay, fine—This Walker is a human being dressed up like a Walker so there's a little surprise there and, sure, that Walker/Person will be stronger than you expected. But still—unless there are a shit load of them, I don't see someone like Daryl getting surprised enough to be killed by a Whisperer. (NO — That's not a spoiler!) My bottom-line point is—What is there to fear about the Whisperers??? (once again, putting aside if they come at you in numbers. but that's true for Walkers, too.)

At the risk of dating myself, I remember a series of dime novels called The Shadow.  (NOTE—I read them later in life, so I'm not THAT old.) Well, the Shadow was a man who wore black and a fedora (why not?). Now, he had no super-powers. He could be shot. He could bleed. But he used the "power" of darkness to strike fear into evil people. So, is that what the Whisperers will be? And will they be wearing fedoras?

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On 11/15/2018 at 7:14 PM, AngelaHunter said:

I'm not feeling Jesus with the wimpy hipster man bun, which unfortunately seems to have lasted into a ZA. What will it take to send this hideous trend the way of the dodo?

Baldness.  I was in Walgreens buying gin, and the cashier and two men in front of me all had that hair.  Ps I was carded!

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21 hours ago, Nashville said:

Which one?  Describe, please - I think I may have had the same poster.  :)

It was from '74 or '75, during my LOTR phase.  Books, not movies.  I think it was a print, with all the characters from the trilogy.  Gandalf was at the center, wearing a hat similar to wee Judith's.  It was quite large and weighed a ton because it was framed.  For a while it was my pride and joy, along with the collector's editions of The Hobbit and LOTR and my copies of various Tolkien stuff.   It's funny now but I was a true believer back then.   Topic:  I have a feeling that whoever put this poster together is in their 50s and was a LOTR fan.

Edited by mightysparrow
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On 11/17/2018 at 10:35 AM, JackONeill said:

AngelaHunter—You raised an interesting point. I am only aware of who the Whisperers are because of this board. I don't read the comics. (I don't like Kirkman enough because of the TV series. Just imagine if I read the comics?!?)

But back to the Whisperers—They're people who are like Rick and Glenn did at the beginning of the series, and as Nick (you know—from the other show) who realized that if you smear yourself with Walker innards you become "invisible." So, whoever the Whisperers are—beynd being living people—they cover themselves in people's skins (That will be pleasant to watch!) But so?? I mean—SO????  Does that give them some super-power against a living person?

In a sense; the power is “knowledge” - i.e., they know more about the circumstances of the current situation than your “living person”.  (More below)

 

Quote

Think about it—If you spot a Walker coming toward you, you prepare to kill it. Okay, fine—This Walker is a human being dressed up like a Walker so there's a little surprise there and, sure, that Walker/Person will be stronger than you expected. But still—unless there are a shit load of them, I don't see someone like Daryl getting surprised enough to be killed by a Whisperer. (NO — That's not a spoiler!) My bottom-line point is—What is there to fear about the Whisperers??? (once again, putting aside if they come at you in numbers. but that's true for Walkers, too.)

In a hand-to-hand combat scenario, a “little” surprise is sometimes all you need.  

Think about how CDB fights walkers when they’re not using ranged weapons such as crossbows, pistols, rifles, etc. - they usually let the walker approach to about an arm’s length, grab them with a stiffarm, then pull the walker in a little closer for a good headspike with a knife or other tool.  These tactics work because of the severely limited capacities of walkers; you don’t have to worry about a walker dodging you, outmaneuvering you, intentionally blocking or disarming you, or coming at you with any kind of weapons other than fingers or teeth - such is outside their capacity.  A walker is incapable of anything more than a simple uncamouflaged frontal assault at the speed of a shamble; in general their only advantage is when a large enough group of walkers do so simultaneously, in numbers sufficient to overwhelm their target’s capacity to defend.

But a person masquerading as a walker...?  Different situation altogether.  Unless their target recognizes the masquerade, they’re very likely to let a relatively intelligent, strong, agile - and possibly armed - assailant get within arm’s reach.  If (for example) Daryl were to treat such an impostor as a garden-variety walker attack - once his assailant is close enough it would be relatively simple to quickly duck and step in under the stiffarm, block/grab Daryl’s knife arm with one hand, and with the other hand jam a knife blade in up under Daryl’s ribcage.  Daryl would be caught totally off-guard, and that momentary hesitation of surprise is all his assailant would need to strike a crippling or mortal blow.

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8 minutes ago, Nashville said:

But a person masquerading as a walker...?

All you say makes sense, but I just don't get why and have never read the comics  graphic novels. What possible reason could there be for a group of people to decide to do walker impersonations and then randomly wander the woods, hoping to happen upon people to capture? Rob? Attack? Kill? Can't be yet more cannibals, so what is the purpose of it? They certainly aren't going to garner riches by grabbing a few individuals like Rosita and Eugene. I hope there's some plausible story here, and they aren't like the "Unfair Wolves" whose entire reason for living seemed to be centered on running around like homicidal maniacs and stabbing people to death, for no other reason than just because.

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1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

What possible reason could there be for a group of people to decide to do walker impersonations and then randomly wander the woods, hoping to happen upon people to capture? Rob? Attack? Kill?

Never read the comics but, off the top of my head it provides protection from both Walkers and People. Walkers won't attack/snack on other Walkers so you can move about freely. Humans will keep on eye on but, generally not engage Walkers that aren't an immediate threat for fear of getting accidentally scratched/bitten.  Also the further into the Apocalypse you get, less likely people will have ammunition or working long range weapons/guns.

Now of course there are some people/groups that will go after Walkers for fun but, when that happens as @Nashville posted a Whisper will have the Element of Surprise.

All that being said, I find the idea of Walker suits super icky so I wouldn't take that option.

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Nashville—I'm not disagreeing with you. But to me the big downside is if you catch a live person on a bad day, like when Daryl gets grumpy or when Rick was known as Crazy Rick—you the Whisperer could just as easily get shot by an arrow from 50 feet, or Rick might run your ass over with a car (back in the old days when they had gas . . . and, well, when they had Rick.) I think this surprise while having some merit initially will—and should—run out of steam pretty quick. After the first encounter, word will spread (should spread—then again I'm not confident in our peoples' ability to communicate). True, if there are PLENTY more Whisperers than there are "us-uns" (a phrase first used by Eisenhower in WWII) then we're in for a fight. But that's just a matter of numbers. I see this whole slipping into a walker's hide as nothing more than a cool, new way to spook comic book readers. I don't get it, but I'm an audience of one. 

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1 hour ago, AngelaHunter said:

All you say makes sense, but I just don't get why and have never read the comics  graphic novels. What possible reason could there be for a group of people to decide to do walker impersonations and then randomly wander the woods

I can see an advantage to impersonating a Walker when carrying out surveillance, or as Nashville says lulling your victim into feeling blasé about you, then using that to take them out or take their weapon. Getting close is a risky business though, as you never know when you may get a bolt or bullet in your head. Being convincing is also a major problem, could people really be fooled by an ‘overskin’?

The effectiveness of the tactic would also only last until the first Whisperer had been found out, the secret would be out, then the word would be well and truly spread, every Walker would then be treated as if it were a Whisperer, no close combat, distance kills only etc. 

I wonder how they are going to stop their ‘skins’ from drying, shrivelling and taking on the texture of hard plastic, as we know skin does when removed from its source of moisture, or will it be one of those ‘don’t ask’ scenarios?

15 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

I see this whole slipping into a walker's hide as nothing more than a cool, new way to spook comic book readers

Sorry I repeated some of what you said, your text wasn’t visible until I hit ‘submit

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15 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

Nashville—I'm not disagreeing with you. But to me the big downside is if you catch a live person on a bad day, like when Daryl gets grumpy or when Rick was known as Crazy Rick—you the Whisperer could just as easily get shot by an arrow from 50 feet, or Rick might run your ass over with a car (back in the old days when they had gas . . . and, well, when they had Rick.)

Oh, definitely - the Whisper “advantage” is anything but an advantage when range weapons are in play.  All a Whisperer can do in THAT scenario is hope they’re shorter than everybody else. :)   High-quality accurate ammo like bullets / arrows / crossbow bolts will only decrease in supply over the course of time, though, so it’s reasonable to expect folks to be increasingly more stingy with such ammo - saving it for when they think they really need it.  I doubt much is getting wasted any more for simple zombie-plinking.

 

15 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

I think this surprise while having some merit initially will—and should—run out of steam pretty quick. After the first encounter, word will spread (should spread—then again I'm not confident in our peoples' ability to communicate). 

Depends on how successfully lethal the “surprise!” tactic is; unless an intended victim survives the attack, they ain’t passing word about it to NOBODY.  ;)

 

15 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

True, if there are PLENTY more Whisperers than there are "us-uns" (a phrase first used by Eisenhower in WWII) then we're in for a fight. But that's just a matter of numbers. I see this whole slipping into a walker's hide as nothing more than a cool, new way to spook comic book readers. I don't get it, but I'm an audience of one. 

I can see some strategic advantages to the Whisperer approach - allowing them to scout the locations of opposition settlements largely unmolested by either human or Walker, for example, for later exploitation.  But yeah, I expect their presence is more for the oooo-scary factor than anything else.  :)

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18 hours ago, mightysparrow said:

It was from '74 or '75, during my LOTR phase.  Books, not movies.  I think it was a print, with all the characters from the trilogy.  Gandalf was at the center, wearing a hat similar to wee Judith's.  It was quite large and weighed a ton because it was framed.  For a while it was my pride and joy, along with the collector's editions of The Hobbit and LOTR and my copies of various Tolkien stuff.   It's funny now but I was a true believer back then.   Topic:  I have a feeling that whoever put this poster together is in their 50s and was a LOTR fan.

I thought you may have been talking about this one:

6BD24D99-AACD-470D-B5AB-3A69A104B851.jpeg.3b220f59f8fce477d04dcd6098ae4b76.jpeg

It’s a Hildebrandt print which graced my walls for a certain period of my younger years.  :)

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I only know about the Whisperers from reading about the comics (rather than actually reading the comics past the prison arc), but couldn't it be that they're wearing walker skins as some sort of post-apocalyptic philosophy? You know, the Wolves thought humans should all have died out, Jadis's hipster/dumpsters believed they were creating their own unique society, such as it was. The Whisperers believe that . . . if you can't beat 'em, join 'em? I mean the undead are sort of the apex predators now.  Maybe the Whisperers feel safer living disguised as walkers, but Stockholm Syndrome Apocalypse Electric Bugaloo effect has set them on the path of preying on the rest of humanity. I'm at least interested in the new plot and baddies.

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57 minutes ago, OoohMaggie said:

I wonder how they are going to stop their ‘skins’ from drying, shrivelling and taking on the texture of hard plastic, as we know skin does when removed from its source of moisture, or will it be one of those ‘don’t ask’ scenarios?

I hope we find out whose job it is to sit and skin walkers all day, creating a new category for "World's Worst Jobs".

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On 11/16/2018 at 3:04 PM, peach said:

Right, a collective "Seriously?"
 

Cosign.  It's so insulting to Lauren, but also to the viewers invested in the story, and to her fans.   It's unbelievable how petty they are.

I’m not a Maggie fan,  but liked her with Daryl.  Just as I was digging Maggie she’s gone.  They did her dirty and they did the fans dirty.  They Heathed Maggie!  Those bastard.

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18 minutes ago, Mu Shu said:

I’m not a Maggie fan,  but liked her with Daryl.

Me too. I'm so not a Maggie fan either, but the combo of her and Daryl made me like her a little better and then poof! she's gone. Bastards indeed.

Are we ready to rock 'n roll, boy and girls? I don't know if I love you peeps or hate you. Without this fun-time forum, I'd have quit this show probably after the first Negan ep.

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On 11/17/2018 at 9:13 AM, JackONeill said:

Although I am nearly over this show for oh-so many reasons, I do note that in the new poster (or whatever it is) there is not even a shadow or glimmer of Negan, not even a shot of his bat. Now, I understand. He’s the big baddie and , frankly, he should be dead. But he isn’t. He’s alive — but why? Then think about this new poster. I wonder if months ago TPTB had certain big and gloriously wicked plans for Negan but then they started to see just how much hated Negan was, and not just because of what he’d done, but the way he (both character AND actor) preened and danced with glee while rhapsodizing about his dick. But they still had the actor under contract. Conundrum!!! So, I wonder, what’s the plan for Negan????  Will they hope people forget about him? Certainly, he’s not going to be our group’s savior (pun intended) when the Whisperers strike? Or, will he????

That would be good, but it's still depressing that it took them two years to take note of what they'd been told all along. We don't get to see it until they've almost finished filming for the year, so they couldn't just change things right away, but they have no such excuse for last season. I can't even remember if the all-out war/snore took place last season, or the one before, but killing Carl, and not Negan - no excuse. It's especially annoying if things like that come down to contracts, and not wanting to pay them more. I'll bet JDM didn't come cheap. They've  made millions off these actors, and then don't want to increase their pay? And kill off the kid, so they don't have to, in his case. 

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Do we really need whisperers?

what is even the point in blending into a crowd of zombies?  What is your end game?  Yes it gets you around fairly safely, and then what?  You find communities and kill people?  Why?  It’s fucking stupid. 

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On 16/11/2018 at 9:06 AM, AngelaHunter said:

Oh, good. I've been watching this show just hoping we're going to get some mouthy 10-year old brat become the focus of the episodes and the Final Word in the decisions of the adults. What a shame. Three-year old Judith was so adorable.

I miss little Judith, she was such a sweet looking little girl, I always wanted to cuddle her when I saw her 😍, I loved watching the actors with her as well as that age she wasn’t really ‘acting’ so her reactions were real, the episode a few weeks ago when AL was making her laugh was too cute. 

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I realize this is not a "catch me up" thread, but I stopped watching show after last year's disorganized mess. Of course I saw ads for the countdown to "Rick Grimes's last episode!!!!" but I refused to start watching again. Can someone just please tell me in a thumbnail sentence the circumstance of his death? And is it a verified death or one from which he can return if they so choose?

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54 minutes ago, BonnieD said:

thumbnail

Rick's overbuilt bridge didn't get finished, his workers revolted, his horse threw him onto rebar that pierced his lower back.  He had memory filled minutes.  He caused his bridge to explode killing walkers.  A helicopter might have saved him.

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1 hour ago, BonnieD said:

Can someone just please tell me in a thumbnail sentence the circumstance of his death? And is it a verified death or one from which he can return if they so choose?

You're going to be sorry you asked: Okay, Rick and Daryl get into a scuffle and fall into a great big hole, where Daryl tells Rick he's a selfish asshole for keeping Negan as a pet. Daryl is right. A bunch of walkers come and start falling in the hole too, so Rick and Daryl stop their fight and climb out of the hole. Daryl gets on his bike but Rick say's he'll take the horse that magically appeared. The horse seems to be dozing while the walkers advance, Rick yells and Daryl fires up his bike. Rick gets on the horse and horse wakes up, realizes who is on his back and what happens to horses in this show and throws Rick, who is impaled through and through on a piece of rebar sticking out of some concrete. The walkers wait until Rick miraculously un-impales himself and heads for home with the herd of walkers following him. I think he finds the horse again and gets back in the saddle, but he falls off and the horse has had it with this, and gallops away. Rick carries on but stops every now and then to pass out/have dreams/hallucinations. He conjures up Shane and Hershel, in two of the best scenes on this show in ages. Oh, he also dreams up Sasha, who monolgues at him, but he doesn't see Carl or Lori or Glenn. The walkers wait politely each time until he wakes up and starts moving again. Anyway he reaches the bridge with the walkers still in the slowest pursuit on the planet. Rick is still hallucinating. Rick is spotted by our people and everyone races down to the bridge to try and save him. We get a very sad shot of Daryl on the bank, fruitlessly firing bolts at the advancing huge horde of zombies. Oh, sad, sad! In an act of selfless heroism Rick pulls out his gun and sets off the dynamite lying on the bridge and blows up the walkers and himself. Michonne freaks out and Maggie supports her, (a very nice gesture considering how Michonne treated Maggie.) No one bothers checking for Rick, dead or alive, and they all go home, weeping and stuff.  After the bridge blows, Daryl turns and fades into the woods, his lip trembling. Should have ended there.

BUT, guess what? Jadis appears along with her magical, invisible helicopter which no one else can hear or see and spots Rick lying on the riverbank, alive. She argues with the helicopter guy that Rick is an A or a B or whatever. The last we see of Rick, he's in the helicopter with Jadis - the only woman on this show with whom he's ever had chemistry - hovering over him as they fly off to new adventures, crappy visual art projects and kinky sex.

ETA: Oops, sorry. Posted at the same time as enoughcats, who gave a true thumbnail. I got carried away.

Edited by AngelaHunter
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52 minutes ago, Nashville said:

SOMEONE got some hella huge thumbs.

Thumbs? I am a traditionalist, typing away at 80/wpm on my archaic desktop computer. ;)

 

5 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Do we really need whisperers?

what is even the point in blending into a crowd of zombies?  What is your end game?  Yes it gets you around fairly safely, and then what?  You find communities and kill people?  Why?  It’s fucking stupid. 

My thoughts exactly.

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Carol’s new look and Daryl’s raft brought just one scene to mind,

It’s taken six years but Alden’s Finally changed his shirt, and it’s nice to see they’ve roofed the hanging complex

9C85CEF6-A5C3-450D-9AE2-AF4219D8504D.jpeg

Edited by OoohMaggie
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16 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Do we really need whisperers?

what is even the point in blending into a crowd of zombies?  What is your end game?  Yes it gets you around fairly safely, and then what?  You find communities and kill people?  Why?  It’s fucking stupid. 

Think "weird religious cult." Though with "cult," the word "weird" is probably superfluous. 

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Speculation: the zombies are not evolving.  It takes sexual reproduction (or asexual reproduction with certain chemical stimuli) to make differences in the gene pool of a group.

I don't want to visualize these zombies having sex (even though one of their commercials seems to be heading that way).  Even if they were having sex, childbirth would be explosive.

And if they had offspring, would the offspring be mature enough to fit into hoards of adult looking zombies.  Oh, look, the zombie elders are going into a thrift store to find onesies for the baby, and diapers too. 

Nope, they haven't logically evolved.

Logically being that elephant in the room word that we may have agreed to ignore.

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17 hours ago, Mu Shu said:

Do we really need whisperers?

what is even the point in blending into a crowd of zombies?  What is your end game?  Yes it gets you around fairly safely, and then what?  You find communities and kill people?  Why?  It’s fucking stupid. 

The article about The Whisperers in the Walking Dead Wiki explains their society.

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9 hours ago, Nashville said:

I was referring to the size of your thumbnails.

I know. ;)

<Sad Trombone>

4 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Michonne and Siddiq would be a hot couple.

I doubt she wants to listen to his endless whining about his momma and his first kazoo.

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