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S03.E13: The Hyenas

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Season finale airing 8/21/2018!

J realizes the danger of balancing his role in the family with his personal ambitions; Frankie opens new doors for Craig; Smurf offers to give the boys the independence they've been asking for, but it doesn't come for free.

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Finally! J is fulfilling what I had hoped was his plan ever since the scene of him standing over the sink in the S1 finale looking menacingly at everyone. IMO, J has never forgiven Smurf for how Julia turned to drugs plus from what he said in the past, Julia really hated her family, particularly Smurf. 

I will have more to say later but I wanted to post my 2 cents on the last minute of the ep. J vs Smurf. 

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First things first: 

Can we say goodbye to Mia already? I was so ready for her to bite it when she was in the car with Pete, and they were headed to T.J. Speaking of...

Peace out, Lucy. Sucks that your son had to see you get got. 

I don't even know with Pope. I truly think he had a break. What kinda mom hires a damn hooker for her son? Boy needs a shrink and HEAVY anti-psychotics.

Craig...….sigh. Lord Ben Robson is gorgeous. Okay I'm back. He's got his own thing with Frankie going on I guess. I was surprised by his comment in the beginning, about how Smurf doesn't like other women. WE know that, but has he seen that all along, or is that a recent lesson he's learned?

Deran, Jesus. Trying so hard to do his own thing, but keeps getting dragged back in. I did wonder what happened to those two idiots, but man that's harsh. When he was with the mom, I kept praying he'd lie. Sounds cold, but, he couldn't really give her the truth, could he? And WTF with Adrian? 

J. Oh my god, J. You are playing a dangerous game. Is this all in retaliation for your mom? 

Season 4 cannot come soon enough.

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Great ending and I can't wait for next season. I'm you, nekilarose. Ben Robson is my crush!

I was waiting for Smurf's eyes to pop open after J left the room.

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WOW!!  Lot's going on but confused by some of it.

I want a few hours with Craig!! There!! I said it, lol!

So did Frankie screw Craig over or why did she leave? Or was that meaningless?  I guess I couldn't concentrate after watching him put his shorts back on!

Go J!!  I always wondered where his head was at with Smurf.  now we know for sure.

What happened with Adrian and the surfboard?  Did I miss something?

That was awful that Lucy's kid saw that.  Kind of awful that I had to see it!

Sick of Mia.  She has outlived her usefulness.

The whole Pope situation is just sad.  And his brothers and nephew are just standing there watching and worrying about themselves.

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1 hour ago, Cranky One said:

I was waiting for Smurf's eyes to pop open after J left the room.

Me too. 

I thought Pope needed to be on medication to calm him down? Jeez! Some relaxation?! The hooker made him worse!

The woman had a phone to take pictures of the accident but didn't think to call the police when Pope was bashing her car with a tire iron. How is this guy not in jail?

The sharks didn't get Morgan? Meal wasn't tempting? Even they don't trust J.

Lucy was dealt with quick. Wonder why Smurf didn't have her killed at the same time Baz was shot?  For a big player in the drug game she has weak security.

Why did Frankie need Billy? She seems to be able to take of herself fine without him. That was a sudden character change.

Poor Adrian. Did he really think he was getting by customs with that heavy board?

Edited by mxc90
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Smurf hooked Pope up with an escort, how low! I was really shocked how fast this episode went, mia definitely is a pawn, and she's in trouble with her newboy toy.

J, man this kid has giant balls, like Baz, probably gets it from his father but he needs a lot of ammo to bring her down -- she's in control now.

That ending means what? Is Pope still with Smurf? The guy needs rehab, he's really off the deep end.

And finally: GO JOSHUA!!!!

2 hours ago, nekilarose said:

J. Oh my god, J. You are playing a dangerous game. Is this all in retaliation for your mom? 

Season 4 cannot come soon enough.

Yes J needs help to defeat Smurf BC Baz wasn't successful. Well almost.

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8 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Me too. 

I thought Pope needed to be on medication to calm him down? Jeez! Some relaxation?! The hooker made him worse!

The woman had a phone to take pictures of the accident but didn't think to call the police when Pope was bashing her car with a tire iron. How is this guy not in jail?

The sharks didn't get Morgan? Meal wasn't tempting? Even they don't trust J.

Lucy was dealt with quick. Wonder why Smurf didn't have her killed at the same time Baz was shot?  For a big player in the drug game she has weak security.

Why did Frankie need Billy? She seems to be able to take of herself fine without him. That was a sudden character change.

Poor Adrian. Did he really think he was getting by customs with that heavy board?

 

I am starting to think that J commissioned the hit on Baz. So now J and Smurf know what each other are capable of with the wildcard Pope always ready to blow,

 

As I was thinking before just like Lucy that Mia was some kind of cartel royalty, but it seems due to her relationship with Spider who becomes a someone J has to deal with before the story ends.

Edited by Raja
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1 hour ago, mxc90 said:

Why did Frankie need Billy? She seems to be able to take of herself fine without him. That was a sudden character change.

That’s what I was wondering. I can see her glomming on to who or whatever she thinks might be a money maker. But Billy was so clearly a loser. BTW what did she write on Craig’s chest?

Pope’s weird behavior seemed weird for weird’s sake because I had no idea why it was all happening. And the blood on his hand?

There was a lot of sex and bare bums in this episode. I think the only people not having sex were Deran and Adrian. 

Have no idea how J will take it all but I will greatly enjoy watching him try. 

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34 minutes ago, Raja said:

I am starting to think that J commissioned the hit on Baz. So now J and Smurf know what each other are capable of with the wildcard Pope always ready to blow,

 

As I was thinking before just like Lucy Mia was some kind of cartel royalty, but it seems due to her relationship with Spider who becomes a someone J has to deal with before the story ends.

Eerie that, at the very end, J virtually repeated what Baz said in Season Two about taking everything and everyone Smurf cared about.  Note that Smurf started telling J he was Baz's son in the very first episode of the season...as though from the moment she learned the stash was gone from the house in S 3, episode 1 she began suspecting J and deciding he was definitely  Baz's kid.  J seems to be her only ally in Season Two, but this entire season she has treated him as expendable, ordering him to use his own relatively small stash to pay her lawyers and protection and then expecting him to sacrifice his life on her command.  She is good at manipulating everyone but J... But very good following the trail of what he has done.  Had he not taken her properties, hard to imagine she would have given any of the boys anything.  But because she divvied up the properties, seems as though J has killed Morgan and alienated Smurf for no reason.

J seemed annoyed with Mia's nagging at the beginning of the finale.  Maybe he will not care about the boyfriend.

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Mia told Spider that J was someone she was working.  Does she have a larger plan or was that just a stalling tactic?  In any case, I think there's a real chance Mia's next killing/attempt is going to be J, because Smurf knows he stole from her, and she probably really suspects he killed Morgan.  On the other other hand, maybe Lucy's kid can give a good description of those two when the rest of Lucy's cartel finds out about the killings.  Then it's on for Pete and Mia, because I bet they'll be able to figure it out. 

Unfortunately (in real life, anyway), the notary's heavy book would not burn up in that little fire.  It would char, but you could still get info from some of the pages.  I wonder if that will be a plot point next season.

Frankie wrote "Keys in car.  Don't worry. I wash you off."

Who was the woman that Pope met?  She knew him, so it wasn't the foster mom, I hope.  Pope had blood on his hand when he showed up at her house, so he got it at the accident site.  I hope it was just from the tire iron, and no harm came to the other woman.  That guy is just plain broke, and there isn't any fixing him.

The surfboard.  Was it cocaine, or some other drug, baked into the board?  I don't think Adrian will take this one for Deran.  Heads will roll.

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45 minutes ago, Dowel Jones said:

Mia told Spider that J was someone she was working.  Does she have a larger plan or was that just a stalling tactic?  In any case, I think there's a real chance Mia's next killing/attempt is going to be J, because Smurf knows he stole from her, and she probably really suspects he killed Morgan.  On the other other hand, maybe Lucy's kid can give a good description of those two when the rest of Lucy's cartel finds out about the killings.  Then it's on for Pete and Mia, because I bet they'll be able to figure it out. 

Unfortunately (in real life, anyway), the notary's heavy book would not burn up in that little fire.  It would char, but you could still get info from some of the pages.  I wonder if that will be a plot point next season.

Frankie wrote "Keys in car.  Don't worry. I wash you off."

Who was the woman that Pope met?  She knew him, so it wasn't the foster mom, I hope.  Pope had blood on his hand when he showed up at her house, so he got it at the accident site.  I hope it was just from the tire iron, and no harm came to the other woman.  That guy is just plain broke, and there isn't any fixing him.

The surfboard.  Was it cocaine, or some other drug, baked into the board?  I don't think Adrian will take this one for Deran.  Heads will roll.

I think Mia was stalling. She surprised when the guy got out of prison and obviously likes J. Jealous boyfriend showdown to come at the worst time.

Killing Lucy infront of her kid/any kid not cool. I hope that does come back to bite Smurf, Mia and psycho female dog gangster. For a drug gang that bought an estate you would figure there security would be state of the art and have roaming guards. I think showing Mia's back tats were to remind the audience that she was/is gangster. Lucy probably recorded Smurf saying she killed Baz. That recording will probably surface sometime soon.

The woman Pope went to was his ex he met during a church robbery. Hope he didn't kill her. I don't think they would bring the actress back for that single scene.

Last week when the surfer guy commented how heavy the bag/board was you knew he was going to get caught. Was he turned in or just reckless wanting the money?

Still thinking Frankie might be an undercover cop trying to get something on the entire Smurf gang, especially Smurf.

Toughest scene to watch was with Ox's mom.

Just a note. Don't really need to bother with fake sex in most shows, it's usually time filler that could be used for more story. Don't need to see people going to the bathroom or extend a scene showing bare butt either.

Edited by misstwpherecool
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I have questions, because I am admittedly not high IQ and cannot follow this show. 

1. Why did Mia kill Lucy?

2. Who was that surfer guy and who did he tell Deran was dead?

3. Whose car did Pope destroy and why?  

4. Who was that blond Pope went to see at the end?

5. Whose (mother) did Deran go to see?

6. What was in Adrian's trunk at the airport? 
 

Edited by DakotaLavender

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3 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

Frankie wrote "Keys in car.  Don't worry. I wash you off."

The last part was "I won't rip you off".

Also, I wonder if Mia will be pregnant next season, The writers made a point to say who was wearing a condom. And did she ever change those bed sheets for her "sexcapades"?

Edited by mxc90
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I don't understand the extent of J's venom towards Smurf. It just seems a little extreme for his previous mellow character. The other boys get fed up with her but they don't want  to actually destroy her.

She took J in like her own (just like she did Baz) without any obligation to do so.

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1 hour ago, anonymiss said:

I don't understand the extent of J's venom towards Smurf. It just seems a little extreme for his previous mellow character. The other boys get fed up with her but they don't want  to actually destroy her.

She took J in like her own (just like she did Baz) without any obligation to do so.

Well she is his Grandmother (on both sides if Baz is his father) so there is some obligation there but she also treated his mother like garbage, cut her out of her life and I believe manipulated the boys to cut her out there too so she abandoned her and cut her off from her family. He sees all they have and how they treated his mother and that is where his venom comes from.

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2 hours ago, DakotaLavender said:

I have questions, because I am admittedly not high IQ and cannot follow this show. 

1. Why did Mia kill Lucy?

2. Who was that surfer guy and who did he tell Deran was dead?

3. Whose car did Pope destroy and why?  

4. Who was that blond Pope went to see at the end?

5. Who did Craig to to see?

6. What was in Adrian's trunk at the airport? 
 

1. I think that The Mechanic, is just like Jason Stratham and Charles Bronson movies and he likes to use women to get closer to his target. Smurf likely hired him to make sure Lucy doesn't come back at the Cody clan.

2. They were part of the crew Deran used to pull off his independent job. He later gave them a tip and told them to wait but they went off on their own. The dead guy got hurt so he was sent to Mexico to the Cody's doctor on retainer across the border.

3. That was Pope's own truck. The woman he finally hit was just some random motorist. You would think that Pope's parole officer would be making a visit. It wasn't exactly one of their stealth burglary jobs.

4. She was the Bible study teacher Pope hooked up with when they were casing the mega church job. She saw him as next husband, until he confessed that he was a murderer  to her.

5. I'm not sure of the question here. I think that Frankie only had Craig around for her job because part of her deal is getting high and fucking at the crime scene to celebrate, and he was the boy toy for that. It seems for that service, along with "the real reason"  being a known criminal face for the cops to focus on as the prime suspect was the only reason to bring him along.

6.  I would need a rewatch to pick that up. He was smuggling "the goods" to South Africa as part of a surfing trip. My guess drugs of some type. But of course he will turn on Deran, if he knows anything. Smurf invited him to the family meeting when she was distributing the real estate so he may know more that we would have thought he knew before this episode.

Edited by Raja
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That house robbery seemed like an awful lot of trouble to go through for just $500K. And was Craig certain there are no security cameras?

Something seems shady to me about Deran's house buying deal. Too easy.

Doesn't seem smart to hang around a crime scene after you've just robbed it. Craig probably  got played like a piano. His DNA is probably all over that house, in places where it shouldn't be if he were only a party guest.

Whoa, did not see that hit coming. But why take Lucy out now? Is Smurf going to pin it on J?

So who did Pope kill this time?

Need next season ASAP, please!

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Lucy like Morgan ran her course and was no longer really necessary for the story.  J already killed someone so we needed Smurf to in the finale but it shows a huge difference.  J is hands on and does his own wet work while Smurf pays other people.  

Althougj I don’t particularly like Mia she is st least interesting and has tied to both J and Smurf.  I think the show is writing Mia as a young Smurf.  Someone trying to scrape her way to power who uses people (mostly men) but in ultimately only loyal to herself.

Hey Frankie is still alive.  Good for her.

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I can't believe that ending. First, I thought it was a teaser for next years show...that's right folks, a year from now for the continuation of this F...ked up show. Why would any sane person blab all of his intentions, while he thinks she is asleep?

Was Billy character, just a cameo appearance? Does he come back, broke again and all of that, next season?

I still don't know why Mia, out of nowhere, kills Lucy.

As for Adrian and that surf board scene. Was he smuggling drugs in it and for what purpose? Deran was willing to spend some money for his contest, so did he need more money?

As for FX channel, stop with all those commercials or at the least cut them down. The hour show really is only about a half hour of the actual show, the rest is ads and trailers for new coming shows.

Frankie, is a mess ...period.

All that nudity and sex, gotta say one thing about this finale...it went out with a 'bang'.

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Smurf made a point of her meeting with Pete being in eye sight of Mia.  To me, that was intentional to send a message to Mia that I (Smurf) am in charge and if I tell Pete to order you to kill Lucy, it will happen so don’t fuck with me little girl.  That’s just my take on it.  But then again, I think Smurf is mind fucking them all.

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4 minutes ago, Novel8 said:

I still don't know why Mia, out of nowhere, kills Lucy.

As for Adrian and that surf board scene. Was he smuggling drugs in it and for what purpose? Deran was willing to spend some money for his contest, so did he need more money?

I could be wrong, but I thought Mia killed Lucy because Smurf paid her crew to do so.  And as for Adrian, I thought he’d financed his trip by agreeing to smuggle the drugs per a scene from an earlier episode.  I believe that arrangement was in place before Deran’s offer to pay, but I also think he preferred to not have to accept Deran’s money.

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4 hours ago, anonymiss said:

I don't understand the extent of J's venom towards Smurf. It just seems a little extreme for his previous mellow character. The other boys get fed up with her but they don't want  to actually destroy her.

She took J in like her own (just like she did Baz) without any obligation to do so.

I find the intense brooding of each son difficult to keep track of sometimes, so I have to remind myself how J started out during the premiere. But he seems to fit in quite nicely with all the psycho behavior so his vendetta against Smurf at times seems misplaced when he's turning Laura San Giacomo into shark chum.

11 hours ago, mxc90 said:

Why did Frankie need Billy? She seems to be able to take of herself fine without him. That was a sudden character change.

Poor Adrian. Did he really think he was getting by customs with that heavy board?

 

TNT sure did promote Denis Leary, which made me wonder if Billy will be back in S4 with Frankie still alligned with him. IDK, Craig is cute but damn is he dumb.

Final shot of two brothers smoldering: since the show made a point of giving Craig some awareness re Smurf and women, will J and Pope bond over Smurf keeping them in her clutches whilst essentially ditching both her own daughter and Lena?

Finally, I kept waiting for the show to address Mia killing Baz but I guess they're saving that for next year?

Edited by chick binewski
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58 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

Lucy like Morgan ran her course and was no longer really necessary for the story.  J already killed someone so we needed Smurf to in the finale but it shows a huge difference.  J is hands on and does his own wet work while Smurf pays other people.  

Althougj I don’t particularly like Mia she is st least interesting and has tied to both J and Smurf.  I think the show is writing Mia as a young Smurf.  Someone trying to scrape her way to power who uses people (mostly men) but in ultimately only loyal to herself.

Hey Frankie is still alive.  Good for her.

I can't remember if we saw Smurf or Pope kill first. In any case it seems as if Smurf is well known and can't get close to her targets so the mechanic Pete takes those contract hits 

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I knew Adrian would get caught trying to smuggle using his surfboard. That's going to break Deran's heart that Adrian turned to that instead of taking money from him. I'll be curious to see how S4 plays out with them.

For all her coldness, I do think Mia likes J on some level but has to also watch her own butt first. I don't think she's interested in being with Tupi judging from that dry sex... also WTF with his reasons for not using a condom? I would like to think Mia is wise enough to go get Plan B if she isn't already on the pill. Anywho, she killed Lucy cause Smurf paid Pete to take care of Lucy and Mia is part of Pete's kill squad. That was strictly business for her. I don't think Mia is like Smurf at all cause Mia doesn't seem viciously petty or ruthlessly ambitious like Smurf. She doesn't want to control everyone around her. If she did, she wouldn't have spent the majority of the season homeless cause a roof over her head would have given her some control. Sure, she'll lie her way out of a situation like she did with Tupi but I don't think that makes Mia just like Smurf. Everyone on this show lies when they feel they need to do so and everyone can be cold. 

I still don't care about Frankie & Craig. Their scenes just come off as filler to me. The show seems lost as to what to do with Craig. He's not moving forward character-wise but is just stagnant. Also, Frankie admiring Smurf should be a red flag for Craig but of all her sons, he is the most dependent on her so I'm not surprised he wouldn't be as put off as the others would be in his shoes.

Pope is a mess. Is he not getting his meds or is he that distressed by the loss of Lena? Interesting that he went to see Amy and sought comfort from her during his breakdown.

I am so looking forward to S4 of J vs Smurf. I was surprised he threatened her while she was asleep but I think J was showing how similarly ruthless to his granny that he can be. After getting that watch, he knows she's eyeing him. Now it'll be a game of chess between them. I'm just curious about that look between Pope and J at the end. I think Pope is aware of J's true feelings on some level. And Julia was his twin. 

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I think the watch was Smurf telling J she knew he stole the properties and murdered Morgan. Which is her saying also she has something on him she can tell police. She's in the clear because not only is she the victim of the fraud, she was in jail when it went down. And even the police have to know that the person who stole the properties is the one with the most pressing need to shut up Morgan permanently, especially after Smurf gets out. She's both promising him that he can be the number two and defying him to make the same mistake Baz made. By the way, since Julia was kicked out for incest with Baz, it is almost certain Baz was the father. (Yes, Baz and Julia were not genetically brother and sister.  But I feel being raised as brother and sister gives it even more squick than blood siblings who never lived together in a family mating. And I suspect Julia's addictions were not helped by feeling guilt.) 

J's fury at Smurf may be even more intense because of guilt over his killing his mother, even if it was unintentional (not sure at this point.) Punishing Smurf for his crime is a kind of psychological displacement of guilt, I think. 

Smurf not having Lucy killed along with Baz becomes more and more bizarre. Lucy not looking for Smurf to come after her is amazingly stupid, however convenient for Smurf and the writers. Lucy not killing Smurf herself is unlikely in a cartel queen. The only thing that even makes the slightest sense is that Lucy was convinced that Pope would off Smurf, much safer and more satisfying. Then it's not surprising such a ridiculous scheme would turn out to be a Darwin Award winner. 

If I were Pete and Tina, I would not repeatedly abuse a killer. Motivating her to betray them, or maybe just shoot them in the back, is remarkably stupid. I have no idea why she didn't sell Pete and Tina to Lucy, who would no doubt have paid her, unlike Pete and Tina. I see it on screen and I still can't believe it. 

The episode description talks about the price they have to pay for getting their share of the money. So I think in one way or another all of them have been shafted by Smurf. It's most obvious with Pope, of course. He lost Lena because Smurf made it clear that she was going to make Lena miserable. J has been threatened with Baz' fate. It's not so obvious with Craig, but I suspect that Frankie is friendly with Smurf. Smurf may even have planned Frankie's job. At any rate, I can't see Frankie being with Billy. If Billy was the best she could do, she wouldn't be the kind of person who could pull off conning the rich guy. Maybe she was using Billy as an entree into the Cody family, switching targets from Deran to Craig? Still, I'm inclined to think Frankie is basically Smurf's Craig-walker. At this point I'm pretty sure that Adrian was lured by an agent of Smurf and ratted out. I can't see Smurf being gay friendly.  

Pope on some level knows he can't really cope, so he's in a bind. He needs somebody and Smurf is the only one offering. Craig is too consumed with his addictions to want anything but more, i.e., the status quo. Deran is too stupid to realize he really wants out or even truly grasp how messed up Pope is, much less how to help. J? The thing about J is that he doesn't just want revenge, he also wants the money. The threat about taking away everyone she loves was kind of strange. It's not at all clear why he thinks she loves anyone. I think it just means he plans on killing all his uncles first. But that's more of a disarming Smurf move, taking away her weapons, not breaking her heart.

Edited by sjohnson
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We know Deran has not much knowledge about money, finances and bookkeeping, like not knowing about the pre-approval thing the realtor mentioned, but he's gotta know that paying cash for a $1M+ home is gonna be suspicious.  Yeah, the realtor will keep her mouth shut because commission, but still.  He's just lucky he got someone whose greed will keep him off the radar of IRS, DEA, Homeland Security, etc.   

When the moving truck got to the house they were robbing, Frankie came out of the truck carrying a big printed sign, like you'd see on the side of a building.  It looked like it had the info of a business - like a decorator or realtor.  She was walking toward the house with it - what was that about?  Why take it off the truck and inside the house?

I was baffled at the end scene - the silent stare-off between J and Pope.  Was it supposed to be implied that Pope heard what J said, because it didn't look like he was anywhere near enough to hear that whispering.  Also, I couldn't tell if the looks were "we're mortal enemies" or "I got your back, dude".

I was so hoping that Pete was taking Mia out to put a bullet in her.  No such luck, but I got a chuckle out of him telling her that she's not in a remake of Romeo and Juliet.  It's crazy that the two youngest people in this show have the highest total (on screen) body count:   Mia = 2 and J = 1.

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26 minutes ago, sjohnson said:

By the way, since Julia was kicked out for incest with Baz, it is almost certain Baz was the father. (Yes, Baz and Julia were not genetically brother and sister.  But I feel being raised as brother and sister gives it even more squick than blood siblings who never lived together in a family mating. And I suspect Julia's addictions were not helped by feeling guilt.) 

I completely disagree. Smurf didn't care about Julia and Baz having sex. From all the S1 scenes of her showing J his parents* history as well as Smurf telling him several times that he was Baz's son, there was no disgust in her tone about his parents*. Plus Smurf is the same one who walks in on her sons and grandson while they're naked or near naked without any shame as well as kissing them lingeringly on the lips. Smurf's not clutching pearls over Baz & Julia having sex at all. IMO Smurf kicked Julia out cause she saw her as competition. Smurf doesn't like other women being around, and I imagine a pretty young woman living with her & around her boys would especially bother Smurf, related or not. Her feelings about other women being around has been stated on the show about Smurf. From what I put together as my take on things, Julia was a threat to Smurf because she was not only Pope's twin that he was close to but Julia had Baz also hooked on her charms. Julia having their loyalty first meant that Smurf didn't and I can't see Smurf abiding by being the second fiddle in that situation. I think that is why she cut Julia loose and then Julia was soon hooked on drugs & we saw what became of her from the pilot ep. 

 

16 minutes ago, patty1h said:

No such luck, but I got a chuckle out of him telling her that she's not in a remake of Romeo and Juliet. 

I actually thought it what apropos since Romeo & Juliet is a tragedy more than it is a romance. 

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I dont think Adrian wanted to take money from Deran. Especially after Billy stole from his bar. He probably feels weird about taking money from him. But yes, very dumb to finance your life style with being a drug mule. I dont see him turning on Deran though. 

 

I was so glad that Niki left this season only to be replaced by another annoying person Mia. 

Edited by backhometome
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52 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I think this show made a mistake to script Pope to be so attached to Lena, who is not a blood relative. The way he was sitting in her room, and he seemed so sick and f**ked up, well.... the writers have to be careful not to steer him in the direction of a pedophile. I am surprised nobody else thought of this. 

Pope is attached to Lena, his niece, because he is profoundly guilty about murdering her mother.  Nothing about the writing or acting even suggests a hint of pedophilia.  That's why nobody else thought of this.

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8 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Pope is attached to Lena, his niece, because he is profoundly guilty about murdering her mother.  Nothing about the writing or acting even suggests a hint of pedophilia.  That's why nobody else thought of this.

OK I will delete it.

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42 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Pope is attached to Lena, his niece, because he is profoundly guilty about murdering her mother.  Nothing about the writing or acting even suggests a hint of pedophilia.  That's why nobody else thought of this.

There was the theory that Pope may have been the biological father when Baz won the triangular fight.

And the prostitutes, when Pope came home from prison it was the same thing, take her from behind only that one was asked to add the "don't do this" type dialog to make us think Pope was with his twin sister 

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8 minutes ago, Raja said:

There was the theory that Pope may have been the biological father when Baz won the triangular fight.

IIRC, that was a fan theory but I don't think it's actually been suggested in the writing or acting. 

 

54 minutes ago, sugarbaker design said:

Pope is attached to Lena, his niece, because he is profoundly guilty about murdering her mother.

And he'd been in love with Cath. But I think it's mostly due to guilt as well. 

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Wow, so much to unpack.

Lucy's death seemed very random. Smurf spent most of the episode trying to learn whether J or Morgan ripped her off. And yet in the midst of this, she stops by Pete's place and says "oh by the way here's an envelope of cash, please go kill Lucy." Way to multi-task!

It must have been Smurf who told Pete that Mia was seeing J. I don't know how Smurf knew who Mia was though. She wasn't wearing a name tag or anything but the way Smurf was staring daggers at her made it obvious she knew who she was. 

I'm 99% certain Smurf knows it was J who stole her properties. Is she playing a long game with him, or is she genuinely proud of his accomplishment? After all, he won't be able to do it again since he no longer has her power of attorney, and she gave him a whole bunch more of her properties when she was divvying them up between her boys. 

Taken all together, I think there might be some merit to the theory posted above that Smurf had Lucy killed so she can pin it on J.

I don't understand what happened with Frankie - did she leave Craig to take the fall? I guess it's supposed to be a cliff-hanger.

Quote

Why did Frankie need Billy? She seems to be able to take of herself fine without him. That was a sudden character change.

Frankly, I think the show did a half-assed job of forcing Dichen Lachman into the show. TV keeps trying to make this actress happen, she's been all over the place. Some casting agent really has the hots for her. If she's a skilled enough con artist to pull off a heist like this there's no reason for her to tag along with a junkie like Billy. She sure as hell didn't need him to infiltrate the Cody gang. Craig will sleep with anyone.

I'm just barely tolerating Mia because she's slightly less annoying than Nicky (although maybe less sympathetic). I don't want her to become "a thing." Adding spider neck to her story isn't going to endear her to me any further, it's just going to annoy me that they waste too much space on her.

It's a damn shame this show doesn't get more attention because Shawn Hatosy would be up for an Emmy right now.

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11 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I completely disagree. Smurf didn't care about Julia and Baz having sex. From all the S1 scenes of her showing J his parents* history as well as Smurf telling him several times that he was Baz's son, there was no disgust in her tone about his parents*. Plus Smurf is the same one who walks in on her sons and grandson while they're naked or near naked without any shame as well as kissing them lingeringly on the lips. Smurf's not clutching pearls over Baz & Julia having sex at all. IMO Smurf kicked Julia out cause she saw her as competition. Smurf doesn't like other women being around, and I imagine a pretty young woman living with her & around her boys would especially bother Smurf, related or not. Her feelings about other women being around has been stated on the show about Smurf. From what I put together as my take on things, Julia was a threat to Smurf because she was not only Pope's twin that he was close to but Julia had Baz also hooked on her charms. Julia having their loyalty first meant that Smurf didn't and I can't see Smurf abiding by being the second fiddle in that situation. I think that is why she cut Julia loose and then Julia was soon hooked on drugs & we saw what became of her from the pilot ep. 

 

This!

10 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

Pope is attached to Lena, his niece, because he is profoundly guilty about murdering her mother.  Nothing about the writing or acting even suggests a hint of pedophilia.  That's why nobody else thought of this.

He doesn't only feel guilt about killing her mom.... he killed the woman he was in love with before he went to prison. He believed they would have still been together had he not gone to prison and it caused some animosity between himself and Baz. There was an episode where he said as much to Catherine. Killing her messed him up even further.

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53 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Wow, so much to unpack.

Lucy's death seemed very random. Smurf spent most of the episode trying to learn whether J or Morgan ripped her off. And yet in the midst of this, she stops by Pete's place and says "oh by the way here's an envelope of cash, please go kill Lucy." Way to multi-task!

It must have been Smurf who told Pete that Mia was seeing J. I don't know how Smurf knew who Mia was though. She wasn't wearing a name tag or anything but the way Smurf was staring daggers at her made it obvious she knew who she was. 

I'm 99% certain Smurf knows it was J who stole her properties. Is she playing a long game with him, or is she genuinely proud of his accomplishment? After all, he won't be able to do it again since he no longer has her power of attorney, and she gave him a whole bunch more of her properties when she was divvying them up between her boys. 

Taken all together, I think there might be some merit to the theory posted above that Smurf had Lucy killed so she can pin it on J.

I don't understand what happened with Frankie - did she leave Craig to take the fall? I guess it's supposed to be a cliff-hanger.

Frankly, I think the show did a half-assed job of forcing Dichen Lachman into the show. TV keeps trying to make this actress happen, she's been all over the place. Some casting agent really has the hots for her. If she's a skilled enough con artist to pull off a heist like this there's no reason for her to tag along with a junkie like Billy. She sure as hell didn't need him to infiltrate the Cody gang. Craig will sleep with anyone.

I'm just barely tolerating Mia because she's slightly less annoying than Nicky (although maybe less sympathetic). I don't want her to become "a thing." Adding spider neck to her story isn't going to endear her to me any further, it's just going to annoy me that they waste too much space on her.

It's a damn shame this show doesn't get more attention because Shawn Hatosy would be up for an Emmy right now.

Frankie aka Dichen Lachman. I wonder too about the number of shows she pops up on. Either she and her agent can't pick a winner or she likes part-time type roles. I also wonder about her health sometimes. Hate to bring it up but a few epis he arms looked like sticks so is that somekind of weight obsession or drugs. (Was she Bennie I think it was on the show about the retired secret service agent couple?) I like the actress and want to see her acting more in more prominent roles but it just doesn't seem to happen. I'm still going with undercover cop or informant because I find it no coincidence she shows up when the Smurf crew is under intense scrutiny, she was in by the time Smurf got out which could've been the plan-have someone in place by the time she gets out. Her fondness of Smurf stated this last epi has me wonder if Smurf is her actual target.

Smurf knows  of J's and Mia's relationship. I don't know if she's setting up J though. Smurf would exploit that always keeping J in the dark looking over his shoulder. Manipulation is her thing.  I think Lucy's family might find a tape of the conversation of Lucy and Smurf at the bus terminal where Smurf says she killed Baz. Lucy's cartel staff and friends would probably act on that as much as anything along with revenge for Lucy's brother.

Edited by misstwpherecool
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7 hours ago, Raja said:

15. I'm not sure of the question here. I think that Frankie only had Craig around for her job because part of her deal is getting high and fucking at the crime scene to celebrate, and he was the boy toy for that. It seems for that service, along with "the real reason"  being a known criminal face for the cops to focus on as the prime suspect was the only reason to bring him along.

 

I meant Deran. Whose mother was that? Was she the mother of the guy who died in Mexico who the FBI guy was trying to find? 

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18 minutes ago, DakotaLavender said:

I meant Deran. Whose mother was that? Was she the mother of the guy who died in Mexico who the FBI guy was trying to find? 

Parole Officer, yes that was the dead kid's mom. 

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9 hours ago, fifty8th said:

Well she is his Grandmother (on both sides if Baz is his father) so there is some obligation there but she also treated his mother like garbage, cut her out of her life and I believe manipulated the boys to cut her out there too so she abandoned her and cut her off from her family. He sees all they have and how they treated his mother and that is where his venom comes from.

Right but wasn't there an episode where Smurf and J talked about this? I seem to recall Smurf saying she couldn't give her money because she would just use it on drugs? And she looked after the condo or whatever?

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7 hours ago, Chick2Chic said:

I'm just curious about that look between Pope and J at the end.

Given the episode (and the series, for that matter) title, I think it was meant to show a couple of predators (hyenas) getting set to chew up their prey, that being Smurf.  Whether the "prey" is going to lie down and die is left to S4.

 

3 hours ago, misstwpherecool said:

I'm still going with undercover cop or informant

Maybe she was a plant from Lucy's cartel, and she left on schedule but Smurf got the jump on Lucy.  Or she could be from another group out to take over the territory.  Personally, I'm going with a floater who picks up on whoever moves her along, but she is unusually observant about potential windfalls.  Or, maybe the house robbery was an entire setup with the occupants.  They collect the insurance, she collects the booty, Craig collects the police record.

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Wow! Nice theories.

 I, too, believe J should have been revealed as the shooter, seems like he's out for revenge and baz did treat him like shit.

Watching the episode again, Shawn Hatosy is amazing! Just his stares alone is emmy worthy.

 

22 hours ago, lazylou said:

Eerie that, at the very end, J virtually repeated what Baz said in Season Two about taking everything and everyone Smurf cared about.

 

Yup. J is looking for revenge on Smurf but there should have been a better built up this season, and Pope most likely will fall back in smurfs arms since she takes care of him.

Honestly thought he  (J)was going to pin Morgan's murder on Smurf. And why aren't the cops putting this family under surveillance? So dumb.

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27 minutes ago, Gsallo said:

Honestly thought he  (J)was going to pin Morgan's murder on Smurf. And why aren't the cops putting this family under surveillance? So dumb.

 

I've wondered that myself. You'd think they would have them on surveillance 24/7.

*unrelated question* Did Baz ever admit that he was J's father? For some reason I am thinking about a conversation J & Baz had in a prior season.

Edited by HollyG

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Honestly thought he  (J)was going to pin Morgan's murder on Smurf. And why aren't the cops putting this family under surveillance? So dumb.

 

Don't blame the actors, blame the writers...LOL

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49 minutes ago, HollyG said:

*unrelated question* Did Baz ever admit that he was J's father? For some reason I am thinking about a conversation J & Baz had in a prior season.

J asked him. Baz said he didn't know and more importantly that he didn't care. I want to say the discussion happened in ep 9 of S1.  

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That Smurf threw out Julia because, competition, has been explicitly offered in dialogue. If Julia had detached Baz and Pope, how was she kicked out so easily? Smurf doesn't squick, but Pope sure does. Baz didn't squick at the deed. But doing so openly, even if limited to inside the family, I think would be something else entirely. Plus of course Baz had a meal ticket in Smurf. If this was supposed to be a shout out from the writers making it obvious, I'm not sure they have it right. The brothers very, very rarely talk about Smurf's sexual behavior either.

There's always a problem with the hiatus between seasons. When you remember the show, problems and difficulties start looming larger. If J wanted revenge he could have ratted out Smurf back in season one. Or would that have been too safe and too easy and too series ending?

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