S10.E16: Guess Who's Arguing at Dinner?

[Sweet-tea]

On 7/25/2018 at 8:16 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

I like the back of Tinsley's dress.

I like Carole's outfit, if Carole would just shut up with her bitchiness, I could enjoy her. Talking about bitching, she never stops.

I cannot stand Carole. She is so condescending and snotty. Her face also doesn't look good. I don't know what she did to it, but she looks worse, not better. Even in the glamour lighting THs, her mouth is crooked and her face is overstuffed. 

On 7/25/2018 at 8:19 PM, SweetieDarling said:

Why did she need to call her boyfriend? She's supposed to be this strong independent self-made successful business woman, and she has to call her boyfriend because her friends hurt her feelings and she wants him to send a plane to come get her? 

And it was her ex-boyfriend at that!

[SuburbanHangSuite]

22 hours ago, Anonysaurus said:

Am I the only one who actually likes Tinsley? She seems fun, I like her style, and she actually seems like a nice person. I think she is probably the kindest person of the group. I don't need every single one of the housewives to be a hateful loud drunk. 

All of this.  I love Tinsley.  I have likened her to Porsha from RHoA.  She's sweet, friendly and seems incapable of any real meanness  or holding a grudge.  You do need those nice  additions to all the madness.  I hope we get to see her marry Scott and have real babies over which to fawn--not just pics of her fertilized eggs.

I've been a Beth fan from Day 1 but I've really disliked her these last 2 eps.  Her Talking Heads are the only things that have kept me on her Team albeit waaay less enthusiastically.

[missy jo]

Bethenny needs to "TAKE A XANAX!" (tm) Ramona 

[Sweet-tea]

On 7/25/2018 at 9:25 PM, mbaywife123 said:

SonJa seems more on point this season.

She recognized that Carole brought her a present to pump her for intel about Beth and she didn't gossip or tell Carole anything that was damaging or to be used as ammo against Beth.

It seems like she's gotten more coherent as the season has progressed. I remember some of us saying she was out of it and acting strangely the first few episodes. Maybe her meds were adjusted?

I'm one of the few who doesn't think Sonja is beautiful. Attractive yes but not beautiful. Maybe I've seen her making a fool of herself too many times. 

Tinsley is expendable. Good riddance Carole. 

[lampwick]

23 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

Dorinda is not a mean nasty "drunk", she is a mean and nasty person. When she is sober she is able to cover it up, she is very manipulative.  However, when she drinks or does "whatever" she can not control herself and exposes the real Dorinda.  Dorinda could go to rehab and remain sober for the rest of her life but she will always be a nasty piece of work.

I’m a Dorinda fan, but yes - I don’t see much difference between the sober/drunk Dorinda.  Like you said, it’s a keeping it in check thing when she’s sober.  For everyone who wonders why the cast proceeds to get eraser faced with alcohol- it’s to have an excuse to say the mean things they say.  I’ve been accused of saying some pretty ruthless hard truths about people with absolutely no alcohol and being bummed out that I couldn’t later blame it on the booze - you can’t walk it back or minimize it later because it was said with absolute clarity.  ;(  

Yes, bad experiences do happen with alcohol, but frankly overall - unless physical activity is involved, for me alcohol does make everything better - moderation and all.   However, If I were on this show, I would be drinking heavily to just tolerate the sheer lunacy of my poor judgment deciding to be on the show.  ;). Oh, and that’s a decision that presumably all of them made sober - so were’s not dealing with normal people here.... these are very damaged people who go on these types of shows.  

[pieinmyeye]

On 7/25/2018 at 10:31 PM, LilaFowler said:

I did, too. They should ditch Vapid Tinsley and Slurinda next season and just focus on the OG 4. (Sonja's not a real OG but close enough.)

I was thinking the same thing. It was so nice with just the OG’s, but PLEASE don’t bring Jill back!

[LilaFowler]

I found it interesting how Carole stated that Bethenny has nothing to complain or cry about in her life. It was just a season or two ago that Carole served as Bethenny's mouthpiece to tell the viewers how ugly it all was with Jason behind the scenes. Carole used to insist that Bethenny's erratic behavior was justified because of what he was putting her through, none of which Bethenny could say herself because there was a gag order. Now that they aren't friends, Carole's saying things like 'crying doesn't work over the age of 6, buck up.' I think Bethenny did misjudge her -- big time -- and Bethenny hates to be wrong especially when it comes to people that she thought were her real friends. 

[missy jo]

5 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

I was a casual viewer of RHoNY before season 5. Carole and to a lesser extent Heather were what made me a more devoted viewer. I still like Carole even though I can be annoyed by some of her affectations and antics. I now loathe Bethenny and am probably gone after this season.  Bethenny is too dysfunctional to be entertaining.

 

Same regarding Bethenny and Carole. 

 

BTW, Dorinda was wearing the same earrings as Sonja, except in black, so Carole may have gifted them both. 

Edited July 27, 2018 by missy jo

[lampwick]

On 7/25/2018 at 9:25 PM, mbaywife123 said:

SonJa seems more on point this season.

She recognized that Carole brought her a present to pump her for intel about Beth and she didn't gossip or tell Carole anything that was damaging or to be used as ammo against Beth.

Yes, but my eyes got wide when the first thing she said to Beth was “do you like my earrings?  Carole gave them to me” I thought Sonya had a death wish for a second... but then she tempered it by saying that Carole was using her to try and figure out Beth and it turned out okay... Sonya is really at her best when she plays the role of repairing relationships... when she’s the focus, she’s a wack job...she’s so strange

[StatisticalOutlier]

12 hours ago, Mozelle said:

Well, given that LuAnn is back in rehab (whether because she actually had some sort of episode that put her back in there or because she wanted to avoid questions at the reunion taping about her kids and ex-husband suing her) a mere six months after leaving, it seems to me that she really doesn't have any special insight about Dorinda's drinking that would grant her the ability to comment.

To be fair, I don't think any special insight into Dorinda's drinking is needed.  Or maybe even possible, because it's all out there for even casual observers like me.

 

11 hours ago, janie2002 said:

I'm curious if Lu is an alcoholic. It seems to have gone from maybe she is drinking too much to REHAB? Maybe I'm naive but I guess it just seems like she wasnt an alcoholic, but def a party girl.

I thought she used rehab excuse as a way to look better for the court, but it seems she really is trying to stop drinking. 

Or, as @Mozelle opined, it could be that she wanted to avoid the reunion.

I said a while back that I don't think she's an alcoholic and that she can probably, at some point in the future, be a social drinker.  I might be wrong, but I don't think it's even a possibility with Dorinda.  She need to never let booze pass her lips again.

 

5 hours ago, ladle said:

The only reason Dorinda doesn't have a mugshot (yet?) is because she's a white, upper-middle-class female. 

I don't know that much about Dorinda's financial situation, but surely she's above upper middle class.

And being a white, somehwere-above-middle-class female didn't keep Luann out of the pokey. 

 

2 hours ago, Steph J said:

I wouldn't be surprised the poll results are pre-determined based on what Andy wants the outcome to be.

In a thread a few episodes back, I think, somebody mentioned a time when some poll results were shown before the poll was opened.

[Mozelle]

I'm currently re-watching the episode as I put twists in my hair. I had to stop and jump on the laptop to find the same moment in the show (on the Bravo site) when the editors inserted the bumper for the upcoming scene showing Carole scrolling through her phone. I snagged a couple screenshots. Fair warning, the texts are not clear, with the exception of three.

But what I did notice was that Bethenny sends a string of texts back to back to back to back (rapid fire, I bet, just like how she speaks). If those are the same December time texts, then her claim of only sending three is, again, a what? a lie. And even if these particular texts are not the December texts, given how she texted with Brian--a string of texts back to back to back (like, six between his previous response and his response after her string)--I'd find it hard to believe that Bethenny "only sent three texts."

(For those who may not have iPhones, since these are screenshots of Carole's phone, the blue text bubbles would be Carole's texts while the gray would be Bethenny's texts.)

 

Edited July 27, 2018 by Mozelle

[lampwick]

On 7/25/2018 at 10:14 PM, UsernameFatigue said:

Thanks for reminding me of this. When Carole went on about how she couldn't understand how Beth was upset, given all she has, I just shook my head. She knows better than anyone what Beth went through with Jason, the divorce, and the restraining order against him because he was stalking Bethenny. So now from what I understand the restraining order is about to come to an end. On top of it Beth had great responsibilities with her companies, etc. not to mention the big undertaking of her charity work. Carole is the one with no worries. No ex husband. No child. No job. All she has is an ex boytoy who has moved on to greener pastures. Whaa. I really think if Carole hadn't decided to leave (assuming that she did) that she would not have been asked back anyway. 

 

Yes, Bethenny is a victim of her own success. ;)  I love her, but she needs to get her act together.  She is seemingly irreparably damaged.... so she goes on this show to validate that point, and then she turns into a big success and her accomplishments look even greater because, well... she’s so damaged yet overcame it.  It’s insane the amount of things she has going on, but it’s by her own design.  This show and her other shows are like a big experiment to prove something.... to the world, herself.. I don’t know.  I get exhausted just watching her sometimes.  

I will say that although these shows are scripted to some extent, RHONY always seems so real.  Their actions/conversations/emotions seem like it just can’t be scripted sometimes.  Or they’re really good actors.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by lampwick

[AnnA]

I thought Carole was reading Bethenny's phone in this scene.

[LilaFowler]

If you have wwhl.tv open during the actual show, the polls often pop up well before Andy actually talks about them or tells people to go and vote. I usually have that site open during WWHL because the twitter scroll can be pretty interesting. As for whether Andy is rigging them, I don't know about that. He has seemed pretty surprised (to me) by the pro-Bethenny/anti-Carole results.

[Mozelle]

4 minutes ago, AnnA said:

I thought Carole was reading Bethenny's phone in this scene.

Since Carole and Bethenny were texting with each other, there would be no reason for Carole to scroll through Bethenny's phone to look for texts that would be saved on both of their phones. Carole would be scrolling through her own phone to look for texts.

[AnnA]

2 hours ago, Gem 10 said:

Thank you.  You explained it perfectly.  He is being crucified when nobody knows his side.  Not fair.

I  don't remember all the details.  They're  probably in the divorce thread.   I do remember Carole telling tales of Jason being a jackass.  When he had Bryn, Bethenny would be given an exact time to call her to say goodnight but he wouldn't answer the phone.   

Edited July 27, 2018 by AnnA

[yourmomiseasy]

58 minutes ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

All of this.  I love Tinsley.  I have likened her to Porsha from RHoA.  She's sweet, friendly and seems incapable of any real meanness  or holding a grudge.  You do need those nice  additions to all the madness.  I hope we get to see her marry Scott and have real babies over which to fawn--not just pics of her fertilized eggs.

I've been a Beth fan from Day 1 but I've really disliked her these last 2 eps.  Her Talking Heads are the only things that have kept me on her Team albeit waaay less enthusiastically.

I don't know if I'd put Porsha in the category of being incapable of any real meanness, she's been in several physical fights on TV and went around telling people that Kandi tried to rape her.

28 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

I found it interesting how Carole stated that Bethenny has nothing to complain or cry about in her life. It was just a season or two ago that Carole served as Bethenny's mouthpiece to tell the viewers how ugly it all was with Jason behind the scenes. Carole used to insist that Bethenny's erratic behavior was justified because of what he was putting her through, none of which Bethenny could say herself because there was a gag order. Now that they aren't friends, Carole's saying things like 'crying doesn't work over the age of 6, buck up.' I think Bethenny did misjudge her -- big time -- and Bethenny hates to be wrong especially when it comes to people that she thought were her real friends. 

It could be that Carole realized Bethenny brings all the drama on herself and just doesn't feel like putting up with it any longer.  

[AnnA]

6 minutes ago, Mozelle said:

Since Carole and Bethenny were texting with each other, there would be no reason for Carole to scroll through Bethenny's phone to look for texts that would be saved on both of their phones. Carole would be scrolling through her own phone to look for texts.

Yes.......unless she erased them.   I don't save my texts for more than a day or so and wonder why they would save them for months.

[lampwick]

On 7/25/2018 at 9:55 PM, ShawnaLanne said:

For real. Ramona sincerely looked like she was shocked and disgusted by Dorinda's rant. And a bit frightened that it would come back at her.

Kind of rich though, right.  Remember when she threw the glass at Kristen?  And not apologetic about it.... 

[Mozelle]

6 minutes ago, AnnA said:

Yes.......unless she erased them.   I don't save my texts for more than a day or so and wonder why they would save them for months.

I don't think Carole erased texts. We have seen from the exchange with Brian that Bethenny sends a string of one line texts at a time. Carole looking at her own phone shows this as well. So, I can definitely see that Carole would come back to her phone, see a string of one line texts from Bethenny, and respond this a lot right now.

Also, it really is not unusual to keep texts. We've seen Bethenny refer to texts from months prior. I don't bother erasing texts everyday because I can't be bothered to do so. I do have it set in my iPhone to automatically delete texts after a year, though.

[AnnA]

1 minute ago, Mozelle said:

I don't think Carole erased texts. We have seen from the exchange with Brian that Bethenny sends a string of one line texts at a time. Carole looking at her own phone shows this as well. So, I can definitely see that Carole would come back to her phone, see a string of one line texts from Bethenny, and respond this a lot right now.

Also, it really is not unusual to keep texts. We've seen Bethenny refer to texts from months prior. I don't bother erasing texts everyday because I can't be bothered to do so. I do have it set in my iPhone to automatically delete texts after a year, though.

A year?   Wow!   That's a long time to save a text.    I'm an anti-texter - especially long ones.   I only like it for a quick "on my way" kind of message.  

[Anonysaurus]

4 hours ago, Giselle said:

It's become more about the themselves and their hatred for each other and not about what's best for Bryn. You can't tell me the child is oblivious to it all even at than young age.

I saw in March the judge ordered some psychological testing for Bryn because he was concerned about Bethenny and Jason's nastiness taking a toll on her. I think that's sad that it was needed. I agree - kids see and hear so much more than what people realize. 

[rhys]

Devil's advocate here....I've never deleted a text. Frankly, I can't see C doing so. That would get rid of the evidence! Ha.

[lampwick]

On 7/25/2018 at 10:28 PM, Mannahatta said:

There's a book called "I Hate You--Don't Leave Me: Understanding the Borderline Personality". I never read it but I love the title. LOL  Anyway, it reminds me of Bethenny.

I get that she's genuinely bereaving her lost friendship. But she needs to ask herself - why would anyone want to remain friends with someone who always wants to play defense and offense? There are no winners in that type of relationship. Her deep rooted lack of trust is exhausting. That said Carole is no prize either. For someone who has been relentless in showing how laid back and above-it-all she is: why would she bring up their strained relationship during a group dinner? Yeah, I know it's standard HW practice but it just seemed so passive-aggressive.

Yes.. and when Bethenny was screaming at her to “read the texts.  Read The Texts!  READ THE TEXTS!”.  (The new “Go To Bed”) I was like “dude, that is not going to make Carol want to be your friend.  I’m no Carol fan, but in this instance, I was like Bethenny “slow your roll” - let’s find some common ground here because no matter what we were fighting about before, it’s becoming clear that maybe we shouldn’t be friends?  Sometimes it’s not what you’re fighting about, but how you go about resolving your differences, right?  Bethenny ‘s approach was more along the lines of proving she is right rather than screw the texts how do we get back to where we were.  Though neither one of them seemed to take ownership of their roles in this tomfoolery.  Someone was going to have to bend in order for them to be friends again -and it ain’t going to be Beth!  They don’t even seem to like each other anymore so why bother?  (See Beth with her consolation prize comment)

[AnnA]

2 minutes ago, Anonysaurus said:

I saw in March the judge ordered some psychological testing for Bryn because he was concerned about Bethenny and Jason's nastiness taking a toll on her. I think that's sad that it was needed. I agree - kids see and hear so much more than what people realize. 

I thought that was SOP in custody cases.

2 minutes ago, rhys said:

Devil's advocate here....I've never deleted a text. Frankly, I can't see C doing so. That would get rid of the evidence! Ha.

Really?   I don't get it but if it makes you happy, it's all good.

4 minutes ago, lampwick said:

Yes.. and when Bethenny was screaming at her to “read the texts.  Read The Texts!  READ THE TEXTS!”. 

Which Carole didn't do or comment about.   That made me think Bethenny was right.

it doesn't matter anymore.   Carole is history.

[biakbiak]

I could have sworn the trip to the Galapagos was  for by a mutual friend of both  it was a huge yoga retreat cruise.

Also, I love that  Bethenny didnt want a big dramatic exit but waa only leaving if she flew  private.

[lampwick]

On 7/25/2018 at 10:40 PM, AnnA said:

Carole hates LuAnn which is why I called foul when they were at the spa and Carole came to her room trying to make nice.  

Right?  Remember when she actually initiated a hug with LuAnn?!?  From the woman who hates hugs and “is not a hugger” you knew that couldn’t be right... I called red flag on her sincerity for that.  Or, she really was being sincere and knows that she may hate hugs but LuAnn likes them, so she went out of her comfort zone to prove to LuAnn that she really means it... I’m not sure.  Carole seemed to stick with the support LuAnn narrative for awhile, but it was probably because she knew that it wasn’t a good look to gloat, and she already had the satisfaction of LuAnn being publicly humilated with the added benefit of the entire nation seeing that LuAnn is a fraud when it comes to proper manners, being a Countess, etc.  - and the fact that LuAnn is still contesting the charge really shows that she’s learned absolutely nothing - especially if she plans on ever visiting Palm Beach again.   She may have decided that “drinking” was to blame for her troubles, but her real problem is her lack of contrition.  LuAnn is still too proud to accept her licks.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by lampwick

[lampwick]

On 7/25/2018 at 10:43 PM, AnnA said:

When will Dorinda get her's?

She may not... I think she knows well enough that her drinking is off the rails, but she doesn’t care... she is miserable about some things in her life, but if/when someone lectures her, she’ll probably say “oh, and you’re so perfect?”  She doesn’t seem to worry about her job security on the show.  LuAnn saying anything to her about drinking is simply a nonstarter because of LuAnn’s own situation - it’s really more of LuAnn’s high and mightyness.  I don’t think Dorinda is in denial of being a drunk, she’s just not really interested in fixing it.  And the other women don’t feel the need to stay sober around LuAnn necause they don’t really care about her.  They tried to give her solidly friendly advice about not marrying Tom, but she told them to worry about themselves.   In that vein, LuAnn’s sobriety is her problem.  If she can’t be around alcohol, she needs to get off the show.  Frankly, I’ve always considered LuAnn a fun drunk.  Yeah, drinking may have led to her actions in Palm Beach, but the real reason she wasn’t in control of her alcohol that night is because of her hang up with Tom - I mean why would she go back to the same place she got married?  Was she looking for trouble?  Bonkers.  What’s even more confusing to me is that it seems she actually was into Tom - I thought the whole thing was possibly a storyline or something (which is why she wouldn’t care that he was cheating) - maybe it’s not Tom, but the fact that he was so messy about it and made her look bad - her ego is bruised.  The whole thing is Looney Tunes.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, AnnA said:

A year?   Wow!   That's a long time to save a text.    I'm an anti-texter - especially long ones.   I only like it for a quick "on my way" kind of message. 

1 hour ago, rhys said:

Devil's advocate here....I've never deleted a text. Frankly, I can't see C doing so. That would get rid of the evidence! Ha.

 

A year? That's nothing. I've almost never deleted texts unless they were super weird or creepy. Depending on the phone, I have texts from up to 10 years ago.

[AnnA]

8 minutes ago, HunterHunted said:

A year? That's nothing. I've almost never deleted texts unless they were super weird or creepy. Depending on the phone, I have texts from up to 10 years ago.

Yowza!   I'm not even going to ask why.  Whatever makes your boat float. ;)

[Rap541]

Honestly I just don't delete anything thats a text message unless the phone makes me because... why bother?

[AnnA]

4 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

Honestly I just don't delete anything thats a text message unless the phone makes me because... why bother?

Ha Ha. Apparently I'm certifiable.  LOL

My kids always poke fun at my texting habits. Now I know why.

I also text in full sentences complete with punctuation.

[Rap541]

Quote

I also text in full sentences complete with punctuation.

YOU SICK MONSTER! NEXT YOU'LL BE SYMPATHETIC TO BETHENNY!!! >:O

Wait....

<sheepishly admits> Yeah I do that too....

[AnnA]

3 minutes ago, Rap541 said:

YOU SICK MONSTER! NEXT YOU'LL BE SYMPATHETIC TO BETHENNY!!! >:O

Wait....

<sheepishly admits> Yeah I do that too....

 

[Rap541]

<Imitates Ramona> I did it! AnnA knows I'm right! I SAID I WAS WRONG! Anyway, I really love wine! 

[lampwick]

16 hours ago, CrinkleCutCat said:

It’s actually quite sad that Bethenny is so clearly teaching us that money can’t buy you happiness. 

Do I have to let go of the dream?

No!  But that’s because money solves most problems, but not all - e.g. full custody.  If anything, Bethenny is probably  pissed that money can’t buy everything (unless you’re going to go outside the law).  It kind of bothers me too.  Money equals freedom, not to mention it provides food, shelter, health care, etc.  Money gives you more choices and opportunities to make bad choices.  Bethenny was messed up before having money and now she has princess problems with the money - mostly protecting and maintaining her empire.  Case in point - lottery winners.  Many lottery winners end up miserable - not because they won the lottery, but because everyone around them - friends, family, neighbors, colleagues didn’t win the lottery.  They want what you have - maybe feel entitled to it, and they show their nasty side because humans in general are nasty.  (There is no greater threat on earth than other people.)  You are shocked to realize that the richer you are, the more you are exposed and vulnerable to people who have nothing to lose, and the wealth becomes a burden that you are constantly paranoid about losing.  Your entire life becomes protecting your shit.  Most people spend their lives trying to acquire stuff.  Acquiring stuff is the easy part....protecting it is a skill that only those who grew up very wealthy know how to do.  By the time you have figured out how to protect your stuff effectively, you’ve already lost most of it.  :(

End rant.  No, but really, it’s better to have money than not have money.  How much one needs exactly is a whole different thing - but hey, if having too much money becomes a burden, just give it to charity.  You’ll feel good about yourself, make a difference in the world, and can get back to focusing on what really matters in life rather than the status of your investments ;). 

[AnnA]

1 hour ago, lampwick said:

She may not... I think she knows well enough that her drinking is off the rails, but she doesn’t care... she is miserable about some things in her life, but if/when someone lectures her, she’ll probably say “oh, and you’re so perfect?”  She doesn’t seem to worry about her job security on the show.  LuAnn saying anything to her about drinking is simply a nonstarter because of LuAnn’s own situation - it’s really more of LuAnn’s high and mightyness.  I don’t think Dorinda is in denial of being a drunk, she’s just not really interested in fixing it.  And the other women don’t feel the need to stay sober around LuAnn necause they don’t really care about her.  They tried to give her solidly friendly advice about not marrying Tom, but she told them to worry about themselves.   In that vein, LuAnn’s sobriety is her problem.  If she can’t be around alcohol, she needs to get off the show.  Frankly, I’ve always considered LuAnn a fun drunk.  Yeah, drinking may have led to her actions in Palm Beach, but the real reason she wasn’t in control of her alcohol that night is because of her hang up wfith Tom - I mean why would she go back to the same place she got married?  Was she looking for trouble?  Bonkers.  What’s even more confusing to me is that it seems she actually was into Tom - I thought the whole thing was possibly a storyline or something (which is why she wouldn’t care that he was cheating) - maybe it’s not Tom, but the fact that he was so messy about it and made her look bad - her ego is bruised.  The whole thing is Looney Tunes.

I wonder how they'll handle next season.   LuAnn will be on probation and can't drink for a year. Dorinda has to stop drinking too.  If she doesn't she'll be the next HW to get arrested.   The group dynamic would be so different.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, albarino said:

Have no idea what you're speaking of.

I'm not trying to be an Erika Jayne (Cold, Unpleasant, Nasty, and Talentless), but you need to review your earlier post because it's rhetorically all over the place. 

You stated:

Quote

I only catch WWHL on occasion and when I have this season, Andy always asks the guests who they side with, Carole or Bethenny?  Each time I've watched, the guests have always said Bethenny.  If Carole wanted to stay on the show, she seriously misjudged the audience reaction to her.  This must sting for such a cool, hip person.  The audience has REJECTED you.  Live and learn.

Quote

I'm sorry, I don't believe I mentioned polls; I mentioned the guests (most likely her peers).  I believe there is a difference, no?

 

WWHL films about 200 episodes a year. They typically have 2 guests and a bartender. Even if all of those individuals for a whole year decided to side with Bethenny over Carole that's 600 people out of the half million people who watch WWHL. However, Carole and Bethenny's friendship has only been fractured for this season. This was episode 16. This means that only 48 guests (Andy rarely promotes shows outside of the night they air) could have favored Bethenny over Carole. And once again, that's 48 individuals out of the half million people who watch WWHL and 1.5 million individuals who watch RHoNY.

I mentioned the Nielsen ratings because that's the only situation where the views/opinions of a single individual stand in for thousands of people (I've been a Nielsen viewer).

There is no universe where 48 people on WWHL represent the opinions of the millions of viewers of Real Housewives of New York about whether the audience has rejected Carole. Those 48 people are 0.000032% of the viewers. This is why I mentioned the polls because they lend more credence to your argument.

But ok, even if guests' opinions are weighted more heavily than your average viewer, what is the weight? Does the opinion of a WWHL guest represent the opinions of 100 viewers? 1000? 10,000? 100,000? It's certainly not a million viewers because WWHL doesn't have a million viewers. So at best, those opinions of the 48 WWHL guests represent the opinions of the half million WWHL viewers who hopefully watch RHoNY. This still leaves about a million viewers of RHoNY whose opinions of Carole are not accounted for. This is why I questioned your supposition that the "audience" as a whole has rejected Carole.

I'm sincerely not trying to be a dick. I see that Carole lost those polls, but I love math and am an attorney. This argument just jumped out at me. If you want to make the point that the audience dislikes Carole, the polls are your best bet and even they have HUGE sampling biases.

Edited July 27, 2018 by HunterHunted

[lampwick]

16 hours ago, Pondlass1 said:

I agree. She doesn't listen to anything anyone says.  Her brain is far too busy whirling around.  I don't know why Carole keeps wanting to sit down and talk - maybe the show's producer says they must do this and sets it up.  But Bethany needs a Valium or some sort of medication to calm her when she gets like this.  There's no talking to her. It must be hard on her central nervous system to be in this anguished aggitated  state all the time.

True, but remember that time when Bethenny was on the receiving end of whirling dervish Sonya?  Going on about her toaster oven the football team, her brands, etc...... Bethenny was the exhausted one while Sonya was all over the place.  That’s when Bethenny finally understood what Heather was dealing with.... Bethenny does know how to focus when she needs to - I think she’s having a hard time because it involves her personally and she isn’t in control.   

[lampwick]

16 hours ago, b2H said:

One could look at this either way, but the judge may be watching and this is evidence of B not being a stable parent.  She didn't think that far ahead, I guess.

I’m pretty sure none of the content on the show can be used in court to prove veracity - it was tried before (I think on Teen Mom) and it’s not admissible because it’s a tv show and indeed has scripted content.  Big shocker!  That’s not to say  you can’t see behavior on the show, investigate it and demonstrate that behavior with other evidence.  

[HunterHunted]

13 minutes ago, lampwick said:

I’m pretty sure none of the content on the show can be used in court to prove veracity - it was tried before (I think on Teen Mom) and it’s not admissible because it’s a tv show and indeed has scripted content.  Big shocker!  That’s not to say  you can’t see behavior on the show, investigate it and demonstrate that behavior with other evidence.  

Though in Apolo Apollo Nita Nida's situation, the Secret Service used the show to find and obtain search warrants for property that he was hiding in Kandi and Cynthia's garages.

[Atwood]

4 hours ago, LilaFowler said:

I found it interesting how Carole stated that Bethenny has nothing to complain or cry about in her life. It was just a season or two ago that Carole served as Bethenny's mouthpiece to tell the viewers how ugly it all was with Jason behind the scenes. Carole used to insist that Bethenny's erratic behavior was justified because of what he was putting her through, none of which Bethenny could say herself because there was a gag order. Now that they aren't friends, Carole's saying things like 'crying doesn't work over the age of 6, buck up.' I think Bethenny did misjudge her -- big time -- and Bethenny hates to be wrong especially when it comes to people that she thought were her real friends. 

Having been friends with a Bethenny-type, and related to another, this makes total sense to me. It takes a while to realize that The Bethenny is ALWAYS in a crisis. At first you just kind of take them at face value, like clearly what Jason was doing to her was psychological torture since she's reacting like a person who is being tortured. And obviously she's the victim, and his hostility and impatience with her comes out of nowhere. But after a few years of constant crisis, where you eventually realize that 90% of what triggers the crisis mode is things that happen to other people in your life EVERY DAY and they just deal with it and move on, you get a bit numb to it.

(Side note: a turning point for me with "my" Bethenny was when my friend had a piece of IKEA furniture turn wobbly which triggered an out of the blue case of hysterics and her sister was soothing her and agreeing that this was just another example of how ALL THE HORRIBLE THINGS always seems to happen to her, and she's just cursed and has the worst luck and if other people could have a tenth of her bad luck they would understand why life is so hard for her. And I was kind of trying to reason with them and explain that everyone who has bought furniture at IKEA has at some point had it go a bit wobbly, it's not the end of the world, like tighten the screws a bit and it will be fixed, price of doing business at IKEA and all that. It was the first (of what would end up being many) time that I kind of stepped back, looked at the situation at hand and went huh. I get that she's crying and all, but this is taking up hours of our weekend and I'm expected to treat this with the gravity of a death in the family. Is it realistic for me to be expected to spend so much of my free time babying her?") 

I've always been extremely sympathetic to Bethenny, I think she's smart and I identify a lot with her inability to deal well with close relationships due to "faulty programming" in childhood. I understand that depression and anxiety have very little to do with what's objectively going on in your life. But the thing is, BETHENNY doesn't seem to understand that. To her, horrible things are happening TO HER every day, but for the most part it seems to be mundane parts of being an adult. I completely get that Carole is out of patience with Bethenny being in a state of crisis. You get numb eventually, your reserves get used up. You get sick of treating a paper cut like it's an amputation and start responding with "put a band-aid on it and let's go" instead of the full on trip to the ER (while looking like an asshole to the casual observer, because how can you be so cold when someone is CRYING, yeez, have some compassion).

I actually thought that Bethenny's whole #ThisIsACrisis period maybe would have woken her up to that, but apparently it's a nope on that.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by Atwood

[lampwick]

15 hours ago, b2H said:

Recovery can often take more than one stint in rehab.  Stopping an addiction is literally life-changing and one is never 'cured'.  I can give her a pass.  It sounds to me like, while she may not be drinking, she could still be suffering from the other addictive personality behaviors (like the alleged theft still under litigation).  She made a good start, but she is by no means out of the woods.

ETA: A old friend of mine who has been sober 40 years calls some of this behavior being a 'dry drunk'.

Super cynical viewpoint here, but I think out of all of the housewives who drink heavily, LuAnn is probably the best of the lot - she is truly a fun drunk.  I actually don’t buy this alcoholic rehab business - it’s convenient because in today’s society, if you say you have a problem and then go to rehab, then all of your bad behavior is excused period.  Does she fall under the definition of alcoholic?  Probably, but so would most people who don’t need to drink, but when they do, drink heavily and need to leave their car at the bar.  The thing is - she isn’t the one regularly doing outrageously damaging things when she drinks - probably some regrettable hook ups, but usually she’s “all cool” .  This whole Palm Beach thing didn’t seem like LuAnn at all - it really seemed like an anomaly (like Reese Witherspoon’s “Do you know who I am?”). 

Don’t know about this failure to create a trust business, but if true, isn’t that hard to blame on booze?  Literally, every day that passed, she could have created the trust, but chose not to, right?  So... she didn’t do it because she was drinking, and then she didn’t do it because she was in a dry drunk fog?  I understand alcoholics have a behavior profile in addition to the drinking.... but I’m simply not buying it.  Nope.  Greed and Ego are the most likely causes of her problems.  Afterall, she is the Countess.  

[SuprSuprElevated]

5 hours ago, SuburbanHangSuite said:

I have likened her to Porsha from RHoA.  She's sweet, friendly and seems incapable of any real meanness  or holding a grudge. 

We are watching different RHOAs, lol.

[SuprSuprElevated]

4 hours ago, Mozelle said:

I don't think Carole erased texts. We have seen from the exchange with Brian that Bethenny sends a string of one line texts at a time. Carole looking at her own phone shows this as well. So, I can definitely see that Carole would come back to her phone, see a string of one line texts from Bethenny, and respond this a lot right now.

Also, it really is not unusual to keep texts. We've seen Bethenny refer to texts from months prior. I don't bother erasing texts everyday because I can't be bothered to do so. I do have it set in my iPhone to automatically delete texts after a year, though.

Like you said, if her texting in any way resembles her speaking patterns, it's 10 lines from Bethenny vs. 1 from _______ (insert name here).

[lampwick]

13 hours ago, Alonzo Mosely FBI said:

Dorinda is a drunk.

Also, YES  Dorinda WAS totally fiercely loyal as Luann's bridesmaid when Luann was in a teenaged in lust dancing twirling and giggling on a heap of teetering shit balancing on a dumpster fire that was her engagement and marriage.  Dorinda had her back even when she knew Luann was crashing spectacularly. I agree with Juneau Gal that this is why drunk Dorinda lost her temper in such a colossal way. Dorinda is a drunk who expects loyalty back as Dorinda declines. 

Would Luann have been a better friend to not confront Dorinda about her drunk aggression on camera on vacation? I think so. But that's up for debate. Confronting her on camera will get results and hold Dorinda more accountable so she'll get help. Which is good.  But she sure pissed off Dorinda in the process and Luann, if she's doing it as a friend, has to accept that and still love Dorinda. I am Team Dorinda on this one. That was a pretty big betrayal considering what Dorinda has done for Luann recently.  

Yes.  The only approach from LuAnn that would maybe- just maybe- be acceptable is if LuAnn looked at her and said, “Don’t be me.”  “I don’t want what happened to me to happen to you.”  And, it should be off camera.  Anything short of that provokes Dorinda while also making LuAnn look like a colossal hypocrite - which was the result.  

Edited July 27, 2018 by lampwick
Spelling

[SuprSuprElevated]

4 hours ago, Anonysaurus said:

I saw in March the judge ordered some psychological testing for Bryn because he was concerned about Bethenny and Jason's nastiness taking a toll on her. I think that's sad that it was needed. I agree - kids see and hear so much more than what people realize. 

Right, plus she's 8 yrs old now.  Well past the toddler stage.  2nd/3rd graders know everything. (Just ask 'em).

4 hours ago, rhys said:

Devil's advocate here....I've never deleted a text. Frankly, I can't see C doing so. That would get rid of the evidence! Ha.

I've deleted some, but kept far more than I've deleted.  You don't even want to see my email files, lol.

[SuprSuprElevated]

4 hours ago, lampwick said:

They don’t even seem to like each other anymore so why bother?

There's the rub.  Carole seems to have concluded that the downside to the friendship is greater than whatever upside there is/was.  Bethenny, whether because she genuinely misses their comradery or because she doesn't like to lose, hasn't arrived at that point apparently.

3 hours ago, AnnA said:

I also text in full sentences complete with punctuation.

Guilty.

[SuprSuprElevated]

15 minutes ago, lampwick said:

it should be off camera.

Huge.  Whether or not Lu thought cameras were focusing on them (due to the fight at the other end of the table), she knew they were mic'd up, and the dialog would be recorded.  She was the sober, rational one.  No question that Dorinda was already pretty far down the slippery slope, but Luann was not the person to confront her imo.  I've gone so far as to advise the waitress/bartender to start serving my drunk friend virgin drinks, knowing full well that they wouldn't know the difference at that point.  

[lampwick]

8 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Remember this rager?

Dorinda is naturally animated though.  Sonya’s way of portraying the same level of emotion whether she is saying she just bought a purse or saying what’s wrong with Tipsy girl is infuriating.  Sober or not, I understand Dorinda’s rage at the things that come out of Sonya’s mouth with no consequences.  E.g. that “failed movie deal” that was really calculated fraud on her part.  Hell, it drives me mad and “I have no skin in the game.”  It’s like the defendant who’s been coached to calmly say on the stand that he didn’t do it.  If I’m accused of murder and I didn’t do it, I would be like “I DIDN’t DO IT!!!! with extreme and urgent emphasis!!!  Strangely, society has decided that calm = reasonable = innocent/trustworthy?  Not for me.  I relate more to those who emote, so I’ve never understood this concept.  In my world, there are many situations in life that warrant some modicum of loss of control and anything less indicates apathy.  There must be some posters who agree (maybe not about Dorinda) because of the viewpoint that Carole was cold to Bethenny and should have shown more emotion.  *shrug*