S01.E03: Fix

[WaltersHair]

Quote

I'm thinking it may have something to do with her wealth?  So far, their house is the largest we have seen, and I believe the pig farm belongs to the family.  If they are one of the, or the, richest family in town, and the pig farm was a large contributor to the town's economy, then it would follow that the family, and Adora as the obvious head of it, would wield a lot of power.

Let me be clearer. You can marry or be born into money (or make it yourself) but you actually have to work hard to keep it. Very smart capable people go broke all the time. I'd expect Adora to be a master manipulator of people and she can't even get two of her children to stay in the house. She doesn't seem like Mensa material either, so maybe she's been lucky.

Or maybe it's because we're seeing her through Camille's eye for the most part I mean, the woman was wearing heels at breakfast. How smart is that?

[Alice Mudgarden]

Aw, I love the effect of the words. It adds an extra layer for me. If others aren't digging it, I'll keep my nerding out to myself haha.

[OldButHappy]

2 hours ago, Alice Mudgarden said:

Aw, I love the effect of the words. It adds an extra layer for me. If others aren't digging it, I'll keep my nerding out to myself haha.

Please continue to fill me in!  I'm interested in the words, but can't see them on the television that I watch the show on.  I look forward to your observations.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

8 hours ago, bijoux said:

It's Preaker Farms, so it's definitely theirs, either Adora's family or her first husband's, I don't know. Plus, Camille mentioned how the mom of the boy who saw the woman in white worked for Adora on either the farm or in the slaughterhouse in the previous episode. 

Based on the characters’ names, I think the farm/business comes from Camille’s father’s family. Camille has introduced herself to other people (like Ashley) as Camille Preaker. According to IMDB, Crellin is the last name of Alan, Adora, and Amma. 

[bijoux]

Crellin was mentioned as Adora's last name in this episode, but I don't know whether Preaker was her maiden name or her (presumed) first husband's name.

[scrb]

Amma was going to mess around with the guy at the hog farm?

Risky move for the guy to do that with the jailbait daughter of the boss.

There might be connections between Amma’s little mob and the victims.

Question is how one of them would extract teeth.

[nachomama]

Maybe Camille is hated because she's the first husband's child? Perhaps he was abusive or Adora was forced to marry him as some kind of family arrangement. My grandma hated my father because she had to marry the only guy available and he was a loser, nothing he did could ever make her like him.

I was definitely thinking Amma was getting the pig for some kind of "Carrie" prank.

[msrachelj]

11 hours ago, WearyTraveler said:

That makes sense.  She got the pig for the cruel game afterward and she knew Camille saw her.

I'm thinking it may have something to do with her wealth?  So far, their house is the largest we have seen, and I believe the pig farm belongs to the family.  If they are one of the, or the, richest family in town, and the pig farm was a large contributor to the town's economy, then it would follow that the family, and Adora as the obvious head of it, would wield a lot of power.

i can't abide animal abuse, even on a fictional show on tv. i had damn nightmares last night after watching the pig chase, just imagining what we didn't see. and i have no idea what happened at the pig farm because i literally hid under a blanket. the sounds were freaking me out as it was. i don't know about other people but as i get older the more i seriously think about giving up meat. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

2 hours ago, bijoux said:

Crellin was mentioned as Adora's last name in this episode, but I don't know whether Preaker was her maiden name or her (presumed) first husband's name.

I have a really hard time believing that Camille would choose to go by her mother's maiden name instead of her father's last name, which is why I think Preaker is Camille's father's last name.

[zobot81]

I don't wanna tell people what to do or how to watch, but I'm trying to avoid analyzing stuff as it relates to the murders.  I think a lot of what we're seeing is meant to be "surreal", or straight unbelievable, and if we consider Camille the main "protagonist", well....her perception and memory are not exactly reliable resources for cold, hard facts.  No one's really is, if you think about it.

Some shows are character dramas in disguise.  I think this is one of those shows.

[Dminches]

I haven't read the book but I have a strong feeling as to who is responsible for the girls' deaths which I will put in a spoiler box.

 

Spoiler

It seems to me that Adora's husband is the one.  There are many reasons why including maybe thinking that this will help Adora get over her daughter's death or maybe because he is rejected by Adora.  Also, in the last episode they added some insight into his character.  

[Alice Mudgarden]

10 hours ago, OldButHappy said:

Please continue to fill me in!  I'm interested in the words, but can't see them on the television that I watch the show on.  I look forward to your observations.

In the words of Michelle Tanner: you got it, dude :)

[LeGrandElephant]

This episode was really confusing. Not even sure where to start. 

Amma's behavior is bizarre, I don't know what to make of her - is she supposed to have some kind of personality disorder? (I also have trouble telling all the teen girls apart; it took me a little while to be sure it was Amma at the pig farm.)

Are there rehabs just for cutting? Do rehabs usually have young teenagers share rooms with grownups? 

I'm not catching any of the words on my small screen but I like seeing the discussion here. I am glad that they don't seem to be critical clues, just an extra layer for fun, like "easter eggs". 

[ferjy]

13 hours ago, LeGrandElephant said:

This episode was really confusing. Not even sure where to start. 

Amma's behavior is bizarre, I don't know what to make of her - is she supposed to have some kind of personality disorder? (I also have trouble telling all the teen girls apart; it took me a little while to be sure it was Amma at the pig farm.)

Are there rehabs just for cutting? Do rehabs usually have young teenagers share rooms with grownups? 

I'm not catching any of the words on my small screen but I like seeing the discussion here. I am glad that they don't seem to be critical clues, just an extra layer for fun, like "easter eggs". 

Sometimes things like that can be fun but I find these a nuisance. They're too obscure. If you have to pause to see them, it disrupts the viewing. The same with the flashes. They're so quick, why bother putting them in at all. Again, you can only see them if you pause. I'm not playing a video game, I'm watching a show. They could have been interesting but they're all too slapdash.

 

15 hours ago, Dminches said:

I haven't read the book but I have a strong feeling as to who is responsible for the girls' deaths which I will put in a spoiler box.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

It seems to me that Adora's husband is the one.  There are many reasons why including maybe thinking that this will help Adora get over her daughter's death or maybe because he is rejected by Adora.  Also, in the last episode they added some insight into his character.  

I have been thinking the same

Spoiler

almost from the start. Partly because of the actor who is playing the part. Sometimes the casting is a dead giveaway. Henry Czerny always plays a baddie. In everything I've seen him in at least.

[LeGrandElephant]

9 minutes ago, ferjy said:

Sometimes things like that can be fun but I find these a nuisance. They're too obscure. If you have to pause to see them, it disrupts the viewing. The same with the flashes. They're so quick, why bother putting them in at all. Again, you can only see them if you pause. I'm not playing a video game, I'm watching a show. They could have been interesting but they're all too slapdash.

I just don't pause. If I miss a word, I miss it (I do miss most of them). On the other hand, I agree about the super quick flashes, flash-backs, whatever they are. A few of them have made me jump, but a lot of them leave me feeling like I just missed whatever it was. However, I still haven't been pausing. I figure they'll make stuff clear eventually if its important. 

[ferjy]

16 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

I just don't pause. If I miss a word, I miss it (I do miss most of them). On the other hand, I agree about the super quick flashes, flash-backs, whatever they are. A few of them have made me jump, but a lot of them leave me feeling like I just missed whatever it was. However, I still haven't been pausing. I figure they'll make stuff clear eventually if its important. 

I've stopped pausing too. I did in the first episode and it was too disruptive because there are so many of them. But I still think we're missing things, otherwise why are they bothering to put them in. And if they're not important, take them out. Stop irritating me! lol (The showrunners, not you. :-) )

Edited July 24, 2018 by ferjy

[BingeyKohan]

If we are to think of the flashes and jump-cuts as representing Camille's traumatic memories I think most have been explained or expanded upon except the flashes of her younger self in a cheerleading uniform being chased by boys in the woods, is that correct? 

I think the actress playing John's girlfriend has done a good job with her part. Helpful and hovering in a way that she thinks embodies the type of femininity she strives for, with a hint of desperation that her bf and the whole situation are too volatile for her to be able to control the narrative. 

What I don't get about the whole thing is why Camille stays in her mother's house. I know for story reasons she needs to be there but she seems like the kind of person who'd say eff it, I'll stay in a fleabag motel and still do my job but I don't have to be in that house.

[thenj]

I don't mind the flashbacks and quick cuts. To me they are a manifestation of Camille's  restlessness and uneasiness.

[Lamima]

Trying to watch this but it's kind of dumb. The visual noise, as another poster put it. And the ridiculous stories or acts within the story. So much absurdity. The whole thing seems like a far fetched cartoon. And there is lack of consistancy with the characters.

[Black Knight]

18 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

(and its an interesting character bit that teenage Camille was one of the cool girls)

It probably helped that Camille is Adora's daughter since the pig farm appears to be a large portion of the town's economy. Amma seems to be doing well socially too.

18 hours ago, WaltersHair said:

Let me be clearer. You can marry or be born into money (or make it yourself) but you actually have to work hard to keep it. Very smart capable people go broke all the time. I'd expect Adora to be a master manipulator of people and she can't even get two of her children to stay in the house. She doesn't seem like Mensa material either, so maybe she's been lucky.

Plenty of very good businesspeople are utter shit at family relationships. Heck, isn't it practically a stereotype (especially with men)? It doesn't mean much of anything. The pig farm seems to go back generations, so it's a long-established business that also doesn't happen to require much innovation. Mainly Adora needs to have good managers in charge, which it appears she does since we haven't heard of any concerns about the business. And money is relative; I doubt Adora has millions in the bank. Maybe if you added up the value of the pig farm and the land and her house she'd be a millionaire on paper, but that's not liquid cash. Adora's family is wealthy as far as this town goes, because the cost of living is low and there isn't much money circulating through the town's economy, but in a more expensive area with a more varied economy, they'd be middle class at best. One of the reasons Adora would never leave this town - she couldn't be Queen Bee somewhere else.

[candle96]

On 7/22/2018 at 10:44 PM, preeya said:

HELP ME, I'M LOST AND GETTING LOSTER.

I get that all these girls, past and present, are supposed to remind Camille of each other, but it would be helpful if at least ONE of them was cast as a brunette, or some other distinguishing feature. All these blonde girls are mixing together. But maybe it doesn't matter, as Camille is seeing them all as one?

Edited July 24, 2018 by candle96

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

If we are to think of the flashes and jump-cuts as representing Camille's traumatic memories I think most have been explained or expanded upon except the flashes of her younger self in a cheerleading uniform being chased by boys in the woods, is that correct? 

I thought Camille was wearing a bathing suit and that was after her swim in the woods where some boys were creeping. 

[Butless]

5 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

If we are to think of the flashes and jump-cuts as representing Camille's traumatic memories I think most have been explained or expanded upon except the flashes of her younger self in a cheerleading uniform being chased by boys in the woods, is that correct? 

I think the actress playing John's girlfriend has done a good job with her part. Helpful and hovering in a way that she thinks embodies the type of femininity she strives for, with a hint of desperation that her bf and the whole situation are too volatile for her to be able to control the narrative. 

What I don't get about the whole thing is why Camille stays in her mother's house. I know for story reasons she needs to be there but she seems like the kind of person who'd say eff it, I'll stay in a fleabag motel and still do my job but I don't have to be in that house.

Ashley is John's gf, and I thought she was an irritating caricature of a Southern prom queen/cheerleader.  Not that they dont exist. They do; and that fake sugar that that put on everything pisses me off. Its a gross form of bitchy femininity. 

She clearly wanted to be in the limelight of this that small shitty town, and wanted to be written up by Camille in the big town paper as the pretty, head cheerleader, wonderful doting gf of John, who is probably the only well-to-do good looking guy in town. By 30, she'll be an alcoholic with bitch lines on her face, be screwing around on her dope of a husband, and generally be trying to destroy the '"spirit" of anyone in her orbit.

[Butless]

3 hours ago, bijoux said:

I thought Camille was wearing a bathing suit and that was after her swim in the woods where some boys were creeping. 

I think she was older in that shot in the woods, and wearing a cheerleading outfit. And she was smiling happily. Not sure how that fits in this drama, which seems to be pointing to male on female violence.  Unless maybe, male attention was something that Camille wanted then. She didnt have it from her mother. Growing up  being made to fell worthless ...maybe she reveled in the (love-like) attention that the boys gave her in high school? We were told she was the most beautiful and wanted girl in town several times now.  Shes seems like she's trying to get with the Kansas cop, and I bet shes going to jump on John. I hope he's at least graduated high school. His gf looks like shes in high school.

3 hours ago, Black Knight said:

It probably helped that Camille is Adora's daughter since the pig farm appears to be a large portion of the town's economy. Amma seems to be doing well socially too.

Plenty of very good businesspeople are utter shit at family relationships. Heck, isn't it practically a stereotype (especially with men)? It doesn't mean much of anything. The pig farm seems to go back generations, so it's a long-established business that also doesn't happen to require much innovation. Mainly Adora needs to have good managers in charge, which it appears she does since we haven't heard of any concerns about the business. And money is relative; I doubt Adora has millions in the bank. Maybe if you added up the value of the pig farm and the land and her house she'd be a millionaire on paper, but that's not liquid cash. Adora's family is wealthy as far as this town goes, because the cost of living is low and there isn't much money circulating through the town's economy, but in a more expensive area with a more varied economy, they'd be middle class at best. One of the reasons Adora would never leave this town - she couldn't be Queen Bee somewhere else.

I thought it was said that Adora;s family owns the three biggest employing companies in town?

[Butless]

5 hours ago, Lamima said:

Trying to watch this but it's kind of dumb. The visual noise, as another poster put it. And the ridiculous stories or acts within the story. So much absurdity. The whole thing seems like a far fetched cartoon. And there is lack of consistancy with the characters.

It's been laid out and edited for a flea with ADD's viewing pleasure. Man , I just gave up. I have no idea when those sequences in the psych ward were supposed to be, in the timeline.  She looks as old and in the same clothes as she is in the present time story line, so at what point in the story did she start cutting herself and admit herself to it?  Adora arrives there with  her husband, so Amma must know Camille's been gone overnight at least. So, where are the pre- and post-  scenes to that happening?

Cutting is an important thing to explain in drama. But I cant stand gore and I cant stand watching skin being cut.  Id like to be able to watch something about cutting that doesnt make me witness the actual cutting so damn much. A lot of this show is so damn pretentious. The speedediting, the jump cuts to close ups of a toothless little girls mouth, or a piglets decapitated head, cutting into skin, vomitted  globs of tissue, even the constant closeups of  Adora pulling out her eyelashes. We GET it, already. Enough.  This shit is worse than a NIN video. Cant wait to see the crucified monkey/sarc.

And if its true that they put troubled people together in psych wards, then no wonder people dont go for help. That is some utterly stupid and dangerous shit. Not to mention its treating people in trouble like cattle , and without any dignity.

Also the Kansas city cop is a n asshole. I hope he's meant to be that way. Because if not, that actor is like a black hole of nothingness, instead of attractive in any  other way.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Buttless

[qtpye]

I like Amy Adams a lot as an actress. However, I think her age works against her here. Amma and Alice are supposed to represent younger versions of Camille, but she seems more like a mother than a confidant. I really did not know why Camille let Amma get to her like that. Perhaps it was because she reminded her too much of Alice or her deceased sister?  I think John is supposed to be incredibly good looking. The actor is cute, but I would not really consider him anything special and that might be why the cheerleader is not letting go of her man.

I am not going to spoiler tag this since it just my speculation, but I think the killer is likely a woman since everyone is insisting it has to be a man or Adora's weak-willed husband. I wanted to smack him and his enabling of his wife's queen bee narcissistic behavior.

[TattleTeeny]

Quote

It's been laid out and edited for a flea with ADD's viewing pleasure. Man , I just gave up. I have no idea when those sequences in the psych ward were supposed to be, in the timeline.  She looks as old and in the same clothes as she is in the present time story line, so at what point in the story did she start cutting herself and admit herself to it?  Adora arrives there with  her husband, so Amma must know Camille's been gone overnight at least. So, where are the pre- and post-  scenes to that happening?

I think Camille's stay in the hospital was before she arrived in Wind Gap. Since the first episode, she's been using the iPod, which I assume was Alice's. Never read the book, but I'll venture a guess that she's been cutting since her sister died.

Edited July 25, 2018 by TattleTeeny

[Lamima]

Does anyone else think Amy Adams looks like Tanya Harding in this? Maybe she's supposed to due to the drinking and hard life.

[LilaFowler]

2 hours ago, Lamima said:

Does anyone else think Amy Adams looks like Tanya Harding in this? Maybe she's supposed to due to the drinking and hard life.

I think they resemble each other in general (more than Margot Robbie did).

[Duke2801]

On 7/23/2018 at 2:19 AM, Should Be Working said:

Question: how exactly did Camille’s younger sister die? I saw the scene (in Episode 1) where she in sitting next to Camille in bed and suddenly appears to suffer a heart attack or grand mal seizure, but the scene ends quickly.

They have not explained on the show yet how Marian died. 

On 7/23/2018 at 2:38 PM, MilkMachine said:

Two things: one, she keeps her skin completely covered so people won’t see her scars from the cutting. Two, just a guess on my part but it seems like it takes a lot just for Camille to get through the day. I suspect she adopted a “uniform” of similar clothes so she doesn’t have to worry about what she wears too much.

I think what she said was, “Mama says I’m almost a woman.”

Exactly. She needs to cover her skin. She also wants to “hide” from the world and not stand out, so she wears the darkest, most drab clothes she can find. 

On 7/23/2018 at 10:15 PM, Alice Mudgarden said:

Aw, I love the effect of the words. It adds an extra layer for me. If others aren't digging it, I'll keep my nerding out to myself haha.

I like them too; I also like the flashbacks and quick cuts. It gives the whole show almost a dream like quality (or nightmare in some cases).

16 hours ago, Lamima said:

Trying to watch this but it's kind of dumb. The visual noise, as another poster put it. And the ridiculous stories or acts within the story. So much absurdity. The whole thing seems like a far fetched cartoon. And there is lack of consistancy with the characters.

Hmmm I can think of lots of words to describe this show, but can’t say “dumb” or “cartoon” came to mind. But vive la difference! 

[qtpye]

On 7/23/2018 at 9:49 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Adora really is the worst. For someone who is so concerned about propriety and what people think, she didn't hesitate to bust in while Camille was talking to Ann's father.

But Adora's #1 moment in this episode was when she cut herself while gardening and said to Camille, "Look what you've done!" When Camille pointed out that she wasn't the one who drove into the rose bushes, Adora yelled, "Nothing's ever your fault, is it?" Adora's constant need to blame Camille for everything is summed up in that moment. Camille may be a lot of things (a drunk, a cutter, an embarrassment to her family), but she didn't wreck the rose bushes (which is what caused Adora to be working on them) and she didn't actually cut Adora, yet somehow Adora twisted the situation and the conversation to make it seem like Camille did this to her.

I was also rolling my eyes when she asked her husband if he thought Amma was safe with Camille in the house. When he very logically asked why she would say that, I was expecting some kind of bombshell that would reveal something terrible or violent that Camille had done in the past. But no, Adora's response was that Camille is coming and going at all hours and drinking. So not conforming to an old person's schedule of going to bed at 8pm somehow make Camille a DANGER to Amma? Okay then. I don't deny that Camille is clearly an alcoholic, but considering the fact that Adora and Alan were both having a drink before bed when Camille showed up on their doorstep in the first episode, it seems a bit much for Adora to equate drinking alcohol with being a danger to a teenage girl (especially since Adora doesn't realize how much Camille drinks). She just uses anything Camille does as an excuse to berate her or put her down.

Poor Camille. She saw how much Alice was hurting and she thought that she had helped soothe her a bit, only to find that Alice killed herself as soon as she left the room. Just finding someone's body must be traumatizing enough, but Camille must feel a huge amount of guilt for not trying to sugar coat things in order to give Alice hope. Yes, there are a million other things she could have said when Alice asked if having a shitty family gets better when you get older, but she couldn't have known that Alice would be so upset that she would commit suicide. It was bad enough losing a sister and having a horrible mother, but Alice's suicide on top of that? No wonder she drinks.

John's girlfriend Ashley seems like a total control freak who cares about appearances (hey, she sounds a lot like Adora now!) so I'm not sure why she didn't dump him once suspicion was cast on him for his sister's murder. Maybe she's one of those people who loves the attention she gets from having a connection to a tragedy. I had to laugh when Camille looked at Ashley in her cheer uniform and said, "I thought school was already out." But of course Ashley just like wearing her uniform for no reason! Maybe the reason she's with John is because he rarely talks so she gets to do all the talking.

ITA - and on top of that, Adora resents Camille for being the daughter who lived while her first golden child Marian died. We saw in the flashbacks that Adora already doted on Marian and ignored Camille so those relationships and patterns were already established, but after Marian died that must have made Camille and even bigger scapegoat for Adora.

 

On 7/23/2018 at 10:04 AM, zobot81 said:

The show builds dread a la David Lynch. Of course, there are overtly dreadful things happening in Wind Gap.  But something else is just...not right. The time warp of the town, the scantily clad youth; it feels like the town itself is too permissive, or too promiscuous, or somehow -- complicit?  The energy there is unwholesome, disturbing and dysfunctional.

Ugh, and how often is Camille going to see flashes of little girls?

Because I can't even.

Why does everyone think Anne’s father is so strange? The girls roller skating and kids hanging out in the parking lot instead of social media kind of make it feel like the seventies instead of the present. I have to see how this show sticks the landing to figure out if all of this is tragically beautiful or just a waste of my time. Amy Adams is great but I sometimes feel she is too down to earth for this part (though it does ground the show in a good way). It feels like Camille should be like a VC Andrews character, ethereal and not of this world.

[filmfan2480]

While I understand how frustrating a show like this can be for some ...

I'm loving the hell out of it.  I love murder mysteries (Dateline is my favorite show).  I love character studies.  And I'm a lover of great acting.  I feel like we're getting stellar, nuanced acting; which I love.  I'm down for the twisty turny character studies here (what a f*cked up town!!!).  I'm just missing a bit of the murder mystery but, can only assume it'll kick up a notch in a few episodes.  But again, for me, it's not all about the murder mystery plot.  I'm admiring the acting, mood, tone, creepiness on display. 

As for the quick edits, maybe I sound like I'm tooting my own horn but, they don't confuse or agitate me, at all.  I'm following all of them.  They all make sense by the end of the episode, to me.  Timelines make sense.  Flashbacks make sense.  I can tell the difference between the handful of young females that we get snippets of.  Maybe I'm too well honed to flashback sequences/quick edits in today's day and age of film making which puts a high price on visual panache over story.  I watch allllllot of TV/film and am just used to it all by now.

As for the sound/noise ... well ... I've put Closed Captioning up on my TV screens for many, many years now.  Again, maybe it's contemporary film making practices now to have characters mumble their dialogue (to make it seem more naturalistic and believable) rather than back in the day when characters spoke loudly, clearly and with diction.  A lot of emphasis nowadays is put on music, score, ambient noise, off-putting noises (especially in creepy dramas) and yeah, audible dialogue goes right out the window.  So yeah, I have my CC on for all TV and shows all the time.  The only time I don't have an issue is sitting in a large, loud movie theater when I hear it all.

Now to the words that pop out throughout these episodes.  Signs, skin etchings, etc.  It just doesn't matter to me.  I see some, I miss others.  The last shot of this episode lasted 1 second and we see "FIX" on her forearm as she's speed driving.  I just don't think that the words mean much to me.  We'll see as the show progresses.

I feel for Camille.  I think she had a rough childhood, has a rough family, and is a sensitive soul deep inside beneath her hardened, alcoholic facade.  And I feel terrible that she'd feel guilty about the suicide of that Alice girl (at the hospital ward that she obviously stayed at some time prior to her trip to Wind Gap).  I feel like alcoholics/cutters/drug users ride that fine line between coasting through life and wanting to end it all.  Camille seems to have faced a lot of heartache and death in her life and saw Alice as that younger sister-type.  The fact that she lost both in such traumatizing ways has GOT to mess with her head; hence, the quick, flashy alcoholic-induced edits in her memory TO those terrible moments in her past; listening to that ipod, etc, etc.

Camille's mother is a monster.  And like someone else said, could be because of her first husband.  Could be a jealousy of her own daughter growing up.  Could be because of the younger sister dying.  Whatever.  She's just awful and, I don't think it's supposed to be much deeper than that. Can't figure out the stepdad just yet.

Amma is awful.  But she's young and, I agree with others that she's feeling her older sister out; poking and prodding her.  I'm not giving up on this character just yet; a product of her horrible mother.  But yeah, not loving what she's all about to this point.

The pig stuff.  I just assume that scene was the setting for some clandestine sexual act - OR - a place to get a pig for some cruel ritualistic, sick game.  Whatever the case, it happens in life.  Glad the scene ended quickly, haha.

Yeah, loving the show.  Loving the unsettling, sad, creepy, trapped-in-this-crazy-town vibe I get every Sunday night.  And Amy Adams continues to low-key blow me away.

Edited July 25, 2018 by filmfan2480

[TattleTeeny]

I'm with you on just about everything you just typed. And it's perfect for a summer show to look forward to every week--like a much better-quality version of The Sinner, which I also liked for many of these reasons.

I hope the pig scene was Amma just wanting to hold and play with and give some love and attention to the poor pig for the afternoon! I can (naively) dream, haha! Oy, livestock farming would not be for me, man.

[Dminches]

12 hours ago, TattleTeeny said:

I think Camille's stay in the hospital was before she arrived in Wind Gap. Since the first episode, she's been using the iPod, which I assume was Alice's. Never read the book, but I'll venture a guess that she's been cutting since her sister died.

That's what I have been thinking.  The hospital stay was definitely before the present.  They didn't do much to make her look any younger although it could have been pretty recent.

[carrps]

Heh

19 hours ago, Lamima said:

Trying to watch this but it's kind of dumb. The visual noise, as another poster put it. And the ridiculous stories or acts within the story. So much absurdity. The whole thing seems like a far fetched cartoon. And there is lack of consistancy with the characters.

I'd say True Blood was dumb and cartoony, but I don't feel it here. TB was a show I gave up on in the second season (or third? when did we find out what's her face was a fairy?). It was just too silly. 

But this show has that undercurrent of sadness that keeps me going. Yeah, the actual murder mystery part is less important to me than the character study.

[zobot81]

If everyone thinks Amy Adams looks like day-old garbage, I'm really concerned about the state of my own face.

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, carrps said:

Heh

I'd say True Blood was dumb and cartoony, but I don't feel it here. TB was a show I gave up on in the second season (or third? when did we find out what's her face was a fairy?). It was just too silly. 

But this show has that undercurrent of sadness that keeps me going. Yeah, the actual murder mystery part is less important to me than the character study.

The thing with True Blood was not to watch it for the story but for the humor.  At that, it was masterful.  This, on the other hand is trying to be serious. 

2 hours ago, filmfan2480 said:

While I understand how frustrating a show like this can be for some ...

I'm loving the hell out of it.  I love murder mysteries (Dateline is my favorite show).  I love character studies.  And I'm a lover of great acting.  I feel like we're getting stellar, nuanced acting; which I love.  I'm down for the twisty turny character studies here (what a f*cked up town!!!).  I'm just missing a bit of the murder mystery but, can only assume it'll kick up a notch in a few episodes.  But again, for me, it's not all about the murder mystery plot.  I'm admiring the acting, mood, tone, creepiness on display. 

As for the quick edits, maybe I sound like I'm tooting my own horn but, they don't confuse or agitate me, at all.  I'm following all of them.  They all make sense by the end of the episode, to me.  Timelines make sense.  Flashbacks make sense.  I can tell the difference between the handful of young females that we get snippets of.  Maybe I'm too well honed to flashback sequences/quick edits in today's day and age of film making which puts a high price on visual panache over story.  I watch allllllot of TV/film and am just used to it all by now.

As for the sound/noise ... well ... I've put Closed Captioning up on my TV screens for many, many years now.  Again, maybe it's contemporary film making practices now to have characters mumble their dialogue (to make it seem more naturalistic and believable) rather than back in the day when characters spoke loudly, clearly and with diction.  A lot of emphasis nowadays is put on music, score, ambient noise, off-putting noises (especially in creepy dramas) and yeah, audible dialogue goes right out the window.  So yeah, I have my CC on for all TV and shows all the time.  The only time I don't have an issue is sitting in a large, loud movie theater when I hear it all.

Now to the words that pop out throughout these episodes.  Signs, skin etchings, etc.  It just doesn't matter to me.  I see some, I miss others.  The last shot of this episode lasted 1 second and we see "FIX" on her forearm as she's speed driving.  I just don't think that the words mean much to me.  We'll see as the show progresses.

I feel for Camille.  I think she had a rough childhood, has a rough family, and is a sensitive soul deep inside beneath her hardened, alcoholic facade.  And I feel terrible that she'd feel guilty about the suicide of that Alice girl (at the hospital ward that she obviously stayed at some time prior to her trip to Wind Gap).  I feel like alcoholics/cutters/drug users ride that fine line between coasting through life and wanting to end it all.  Camille seems to have faced a lot of heartache and death in her life and saw Alice as that younger sister-type.  The fact that she lost both in such traumatizing ways has GOT to mess with her head; hence, the quick, flashy alcoholic-induced edits in her memory TO those terrible moments in her past; listening to that ipod, etc, etc.

Camille's mother is a monster.  And like someone else said, could be because of her first husband.  Could be a jealousy of her own daughter growing up.  Could be because of the younger sister dying.  Whatever.  She's just awful and, I don't think it's supposed to be much deeper than that. Can't figure out the stepdad just yet.

Amma is awful.  But she's young and, I agree with others that she's feeling her older sister out; poking and prodding her.  I'm not giving up on this character just yet; a product of her horrible mother.  But yeah, not loving what she's all about to this point.

The pig stuff.  I just assume that scene was the setting for some clandestine sexual act - OR - a place to get a pig for some cruel ritualistic, sick game.  Whatever the case, it happens in life.  Glad the scene ended quickly, haha.

Yeah, loving the show.  Loving the unsettling, sad, creepy, trapped-in-this-crazy-town vibe I get every Sunday night.  And Amy Adams continues to low-key blow me away.

 

I like the show too. And the acting is superb. But about the flashbacks, flashbacks make sense if you can see them. The complaint here is that we don’t want to have to pause to catch them all. There is no way anyone can say they caught them without pausing. 

Edited July 25, 2018 by ferjy

[msrachelj]

13 hours ago, Lamima said:

Does anyone else think Amy Adams looks like Tanya Harding in this? Maybe she's supposed to due to the drinking and hard life.

they do look similar. amy adams has that kinda white trash thing going on when  she is not hollywood-ised up to the max. 

[ferjy]

4 minutes ago, msrachelj said:

they do look similar. amy adams has that kinda white trash thing going on when  she is not hollywood-ised up to the max. 

It’s similar facial features they have, pretty sure that’s what the OP meant. 

[CouchTater]

I heard an interview with the author, Gillian Flynn, on a podcast.  Her thoughts about the words coming and going in random places during scenes was that it's a cool technique the director uses to replicate another effect that happens with the words in the book, but she doesn't think it's critical that viewers  catch all of the words to enjoy the show.  She said that it can be fun for those who catch them, and unimportant for those who don't.

I won't go into details about how the words reveal themselves in the book, since we're not discussing the book here.

However, I will add this note about Camile and Adora's last names from the book (put in spoilers but I don't think it's a big deal, just historical info):  

Spoiler

From what I remember of the book, Adora had Camille out of wedlock, and married Alan when Camille was still a toddler.  I don't believe she ever married Camille's father.  So Preaker is Adora's maiden name, and the fortune is her family's.

[BingeyKohan]

One thing that keeps this from feeling like a true murder mystery thriller is no one even feels like a suspect at all to me, let alone a red herring. I suppose the woman in white story pointed us toward Adora but it doesn't even seem that Camille believes her mother was actually lurking half in and half out of the woods beckoning to a little girl to grab her. At least, she doesn't seem to be behaving in any different way around Adora, just angry and oddly deferential. And maybe it's because we are mostly on a close first person journey with Camille (and sometimes Dick the cop) but they also haven't introduced the idea that anyone else is in danger, like the clock is ticking until the killer chooses another victim. I don't know if that will change, but if they were going to introduce that trope I think they would have by now.

 

ETA: lol, maybe I meant "no one feels like a red herring, let alone an actual suspect." 

Edited July 25, 2018 by BingeyKohan

[ferjy]

I have to wonder if the words really aren't clues. Maybe not necessary to solving the crimes, but I do think they lead somewhere. One thing that I don't think anyone has mentioned here is about one of the words "baby" that we see on a side of a building while Camille is driving, right after the scene where Adora interrupts her interview. It's one of the words that they actually lingered on. Camille notices Amma roller skating down the road and turns the car to follow her. We see the "baby" on the building as she's driving after Amma. It got me wondering if Camille could be Amma's mother. I think the timeline would fit if Amma is about 15. They also seem to have stressed a few scenes of Camille saying she has no children, it got me wondering. Might be why Amma gets to Camille so much.

[LeGrandElephant]

7 minutes ago, ferjy said:

It got me wondering if Camille could be Amma's mother. I think the timeline would fit if Amma is about 15. They also seem to have stressed a few scenes of Camille saying she has no children, it got me wondering. Might be why Amma gets to Camille so much.

Now that you mention it, could very well be. Surprised it didn’t occur to me earlier; I think I’m somewhat trained by fiction to suspect that whenever a sister is 14 or more years older than the next sibling. I guess I assumed in this case Adora had another kid late because of a second marriage, but we don’t really know the history of when she married Alan or anything yet. Anyway, now that’s ou mention it, I think your idea very well might turn out to be true. (I haven’t read the book). 

[ferjy]

25 minutes ago, LeGrandElephant said:

Now that you mention it, could very well be. Surprised it didn’t occur to me earlier; I think I’m somewhat trained by fiction to suspect that whenever a sister is 14 or more years older than the next sibling. I guess I assumed in this case Adora had another kid late because of a second marriage, but we don’t really know the history of when she married Alan or anything yet. Anyway, now that’s ou mention it, I think your idea very well might turn out to be true. (I haven’t read the book). 

I haven't read the book either. I also assumed Adora had a later child but the "baby" as Camille was driving after Amma got me thinking. It might be why Adora was concerned about Camille possibly harming Amma. Adora has animosity towards Camille, probably because she didn't want Camille, so she might be worried that Camille feels the same way about Amma. Maybe Camille was raped? They didn't show what happened after Camille went into that cabin with the porn pics. Maybe someone came in after her?

Edited July 25, 2018 by ferjy

[bijoux]

2 hours ago, CouchTater said:

I heard an interview with the author, Gillian Flynn, on a podcast.  Her thoughts about the words coming and going in random places during scenes was that it's a cool technique the director uses to replicate another effect that happens with the words in the book, but she doesn't think it's critical that viewers  catch all of the words to enjoy the show.  She said that it can be fun for those who catch them, and unimportant for those who don't.

I won't go into details about how the words reveal themselves in the book, since we're not discussing the book here.

However, I will add this note about Camile and Adora's last names from the book (put in spoilers but I don't think it's a big deal, just historical info):  

  Hide contents

From what I remember of the book, Adora had Camille out of wedlock, and married Alan when Camille was still a toddler.  I don't believe she ever married Camille's father.  So Preaker is Adora's maiden name, and the fortune is her family's.

Thanks for this, I was just wondering about that yesterday. 

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, BingeyKohan said:

One thing that keeps this from feeling like a true murder mystery thriller is no one even feels like a suspect at all to me, let alone a red herring. I suppose the woman in white story pointed us toward Adora but it doesn't even seem that Camille believes her mother was actually lurking half in and half out of the woods beckoning to a little girl to grab her. At least, she doesn't seem to be behaving in any different way around Adora, just angry and oddly deferential. And maybe it's because we are mostly on a close first person journey with Camille (and sometimes Dick the cop) but they also haven't introduced the idea that anyone else is in danger, like the clock is ticking until the killer chooses another victim. I don't know if that will change, but if they were going to introduce that trope I think they would have by now.

I agree, it's more of a psychological drama than a murder mystery. It's almost a side story here.

[weaver]

55 minutes ago, ferjy said:

I haven't read the book either. I also assumed Adora had a later child but the "baby" as Camille was driving after Amma got me thinking. It might be why Adora was concerned about Camille possibly harming Amma. Adora has animosity towards Camille, probably because she didn't want Camille, so she might be worried that Camille feels the same way about Amma. Maybe Camille was raped? They didn't show what happened after Camille went into that cabin with the porn pics. Maybe someone came in after her?

Never thought of that, but I had been noting (on my very dark iPad) that Amma in certain scenes looks just like Amy Adams.   Course I attributed that to the fact that they have the same mother, even though Patricia Clarkson looks like neither of them.

[iMonrey]

Quote

 A lot of this show is so damn pretentious. The speedediting, the jump cuts to close ups of a toothless little girls mouth, or a piglets decapitated head, cutting into skin, vomitted  globs of tissue, even the constant closeups of  Adora pulling out her eyelashes. We GET it, already. 

I've been able to follow it pretty well so far, except for the hospital/treatment center (?) scenes in this episode. I have no idea when those were supposed to have taken place, and that feels like a bad writing and/or directing choice, because we need context for those scenes to mean anything to us. Unlike Westworld, I don't get the impression the show is deliberately trying to jerk me around and fool me. However, I do agree a lot of it is pretentious. I think the mysterious words that appear all over the place puts it over the top. I'm fine with the artsy camera work and quick flashes and flashbacks but the words are like one artsy-fartsy thing too many.

[msrachelj]

3 hours ago, BingeyKohan said:

One thing that keeps this from feeling like a true murder mystery thriller is no one even feels like a suspect at all to me, let alone a red herring. I suppose the woman in white story pointed us toward Adora but it doesn't even seem that Camille believes her mother was actually lurking half in and half out of the woods beckoning to a little girl to grab her. At least, she doesn't seem to be behaving in any different way around Adora, just angry and oddly deferential. And maybe it's because we are mostly on a close first person journey with Camille (and sometimes Dick the cop) but they also haven't introduced the idea that anyone else is in danger, like the clock is ticking until the killer chooses another victim. I don't know if that will change, but if they were going to introduce that trope I think they would have by now.

 

ETA: lol, maybe I meant "no one feels like a red herring, let alone an actual suspect." 

exactly, who are the suspects, what are the motives. this is all about individuals , kind of all over the place. where is the mystery? 

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

I've been able to follow it pretty well so far, except for the hospital/treatment center (?) scenes in this episode. I have no idea when those were supposed to have taken place, and that feels like a bad writing and/or directing choice, because we need context for those scenes to mean anything to us. 

I have the impression that it's very recent. I want to say there was something in the first episode indicating Camille just came back to work when she got this story, but I can't remember what.