S02.E13: The Word

[AllyB]

The thing is that a resistance movement like this is going to be bigger than just saving one or two people. Gilead is at war with the ideological remnants of the US within the 48 states. Even in Boston which is an area where Gilead is at it's strongest and most secure, a suicide bombing can wipe out much of it's governing class. The end goal of the resistance movement is going to be the elimination of Gilead and restoration of the US or something akin to it. An ordinary Gilead escapee like Luke isn't going to be able to get to Canada and rustle up a team of ex Navy SEALs to help him extract Hannah. In wars awful sacrifices have to be made by the people in charge and in the grand scheme of things some kid like Hannah isn't that important.

On the other hand June has now been subject to two orchestrated attempts to get her out. I know the writers haven't thought about this fully, but Mayday would not be doing that unless they specifically wanted Offred. Not June, the person who Fred's handmaid is, but Fred's handmaid. To make repeated attempts to get her out, they would have to believe that she has knowledge that will help them deal a significant blow against Gilead. And she does. The things June could tell them about what goes on in that house could be immensely useful. Sure Nick knows stuff but June could be a PR nightmare to Fred. And that could be used as leverage against him. He could be blackmailed by Mayday into doing something they want because if June starts talking to the BBC or Al Jazeera about Fred's proclivities, his obvious sterility and Serena's law-writing, Fred's a very dead man and worse things will happen to Serena. Mayday would own them. June could make her tapes and a copy would be sent to Fred and Serena, telling them that Mayday will sit on them as long as they follows their orders from now on.

And that's where she has the most power to protect Hannah. Get out and only go along with Mayday if they get Hannah out. Either by smuggling her out in a similar way to June's rescue. Or by making Fred assist them.

[Sara2009]

1 hour ago, alexvillage said:

I think I am the only one but I am not impressed by Commander Lawrence. Yes, he helped and seems to be on the side of the resistance but the sarcasm, the one-liners, it all seemed a little forced to me. I am not a big fan of the actor, he always sounds like Josh Lyman to me, but it felt like he had more scenes and they got cut during editing. His refusal to go on with the ceremonial rape was too quick and casual. On the other hand, it emphasized Emily's reaction so maybe it was for the best. AB owned the episode. Her reaction after stabbing Aunt Lydia was perfect, all the emotions in one short scene.

Snarking now: after the car leaves with Emily and Holly, and June lifts her head and puts the hood on, I saw a Sith and fully expected the Star Wars theme to play at the end credits.

EM facial expressions: They need to stop because not only it is getting boring, it is also showing the actor's lack of repertoire. There was a moment before she decided to stay, she was walking with Holly towards the car and her face was supposed to show  hope, victory, a good feeling. But it was the same face of defeated, complacent, compliant June when she was returned to the Waterford's house after her Boston Globe/plane attempted escape. Two very different feelings, one face. Nope. It does not work. 

I’m sure you’re not alone. I like Whitford a lot,but I get why he’s not everyone’s cup of tea.

[BeatrixK]

Some stuff I loved -- some stuff I loathed -- and some stuff was MEH.

 

Loved:  Bradley Whitford and his field of Gilead fucks that is barren and shant be harvested anymore.  While he's not had much screen time - - he and Serena are in the same boat...they assumed they had a great idea in theory...now that it's in action, they realized 'Oopsie...this doesn't create the wonderland we assumed it would.'

The Underground Railroad of Housekeepers -- SQUEE!

Serena reading the bible in front of the Gilead Council of Doucebaggery -- It was a risk...but it was nice to see the moment of realization come to Serena that 'Yay -- I got a baby.  Oh...it's a girl.  This may not turn out as I'd hoped', and making a valiant effort to at least chip away at the wrong.

A finger -- Serena is now forever marked.  Hope it was worth it, girl.  (Narrator -- it was not.)

 

Loathed:  Again...June goes verbally all 'Legend of Billie Jean' in a place where a commanders wife loses a digit for reading from the very book they are basing their laws on -- and nothing happens to her (Oh, wait...she got smacked.)  I expect some degree of suspending disbelief...but come the hell on?

The burning house -- So First Responders are crawling all over the place...and June, in her bright read garb that sticks out like a sore thumb anywhere she goes....just spirits away with a baby?  (Also -- did anyone else think the house that was burned was Rogue Giliad dude in an attempt to get rid of Aunt Lydia's remains (and maybe his wife -- she seemed to be a lost cause to him.)

 

Meh -- Nick and June holding their baby.  I just am not invested in them as a parenting duo

[Baltimore Betty]

11 hours ago, chaifan said:

PS - one more wish... Aunt Lydia has to survive.  If they kill off Aunt Lydia without giving us her backstory I'll be really pissed

Yup, me too.  How is that commander going to spin that attack, blame it on his crazy wife? Tell Aunt Lydia she does not remember it correctly? 

Aunt Lydia can languish in a coma in the hospital bed and have flashbacks/memories to tell us her back story, inquiring minds you know!

Does Emily know about Luke and Moira so she can take them Holly Nicole? 

As June recited the rest of Aunt Lydia's verse last season, "The meek shall inherit the earth," is foretelling for the third season, I predict a rebellious presence in all the households. 

3 minutes ago, BeatrixK said:

Some stuff I loved -- some stuff I loathed -- and some stuff was MEH.

 

Loved:  Bradley Whitford and his field of Gilead fucks that is barren and shant be harvested anymore.  While he's not had much screen time - - he and Serena are in the same boat...they assumed they had a great idea in theory...now that it's in action, they realized 'Oopsie...this doesn't create the wonderland we assumed it would.'

The Underground Railroad of Housekeepers -- SQUEE!

Serena reading the bible in front of the Gilead Council of Doucebaggery -- It was a risk...but it was nice to see the moment of realization come to Serena that 'Yay -- I got a baby.  Oh...it's a girl.  This may not turn out as I'd hoped', and making a valiant effort to at least chip away at the wrong.

A finger -- Serena is now forever marked.  Hope it was worth it, girl.  (Narrator -- it was not.)

 

Loathed:  Again...June goes verbally all 'Legend of Billie Jean' in a place where a commanders wife loses a digit for reading from the very book they are basing their laws on -- and nothing happens to her (Oh, wait...she got smacked.)  I expect some degree of suspending disbelief...but come the hell on?

The burning house -- So First Responders are crawling all over the place...and June, in her bright read garb that sticks out like a sore thumb anywhere she goes....just spirits away with a baby?  (Also -- did anyone else think the house that was burned was Rogue Giliad dude in an attempt to get rid of Aunt Lydia's remains (and maybe his wife -- she seemed to be a lost cause to him.)

 

Meh -- Nick and June holding their baby.  I just am not invested in them as a parenting duo

Yes to all of this, 100% yes.

[Trillian]

Something has occurred to me while reading these posts that discuss whether or not June has a better chance of rescuing Hannah from Gilead or Canada: why is it assumed that Hannah can only be rescued by force? If June got out, Hannah would be one of what must be a very rare group of stolen children where both parents are in Canada and whose mother knows exactly what happened to her and where she is. Luke, after all, doesn’t actually know (ie he wasn’t an eyewitness) that Hannah was stolen - I imagine this Gilead (as opposed to book Gilead that didn’t really think this through) claims to the world that the children were willingly surrendered by their mothers and the mothers, for the most part, aren’t around to dispute it.  Diplomatic channels could have some impact in this case. 

Sigh.  I’m overthinking this while the writers are underthinking it. I just wish she’d fled when she had the chance. 

[Clanstarling]

9 hours ago, QQQQ said:

The powers that be really don't want me to know what's happening.  As if the whispered dialogue isnt bad enough, now my closed captioning is in Spanish (yes, I have English selected). Unless someone asks for one beer or where is the door, I'm screwed.

 

9 hours ago, mamadrama said:

I fixed it by going in and switching it to Spanish. That seemed to turn the English back on. Weird, I know.

Hah! That's what I was going to suggest - as a joke.

7 hours ago, kelslamu said:

My first thought is that the baby will starve without June or formula.

As someone upthread mentioned, theoretically the trip will take less than a day, best case 4 hours. So the baby won't starve - at least if things go well. But yeah, I was taken aback by that too.

2 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Emily hit the Trifecta! A Wife, a Commander (in a round about way) and an Aunt!

Laughed out loud.

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I think I am the only one but I am not impressed by Commander Lawrence. Yes, he helped and seems to be on the side of the resistance but the sarcasm, the one-liners, it all seemed a little forced to me. I am not a big fan of the actor, he always sounds like Josh Lyman to me, but it felt like he had more scenes and they got cut during editing. His refusal to go on with the ceremonial rape was too quick and casual. On the other hand, it emphasized Emily's reaction so maybe it was for the best. AB owned the episode. Her reaction after stabbing Aunt Lydia was perfect, all the emotions in one short scene.

I am probably misunderstanding what you mean, but it seems to me that Josh Lyman sounded like Bradley Whitford. Which unless there are different accents required, is pretty much how it works for most actors (with some additional exceptions). He (the Commander) certainly isn't as wordy as Lyman.

[poeticlicensed]

re: Serena - I have been thinking about it and want to understand her motives for being an architect of Gilead. Maybe she was a true believer that this new society will solve the fertility issue and make society more orderly, but honestly I don't buy it 100%. My theory is that Fred is a cheating asshole. He cheated with June and other handmaids. And he was probably a cheater before Gilead. And maybe Serena is just a Basic Bitch who blames the other woman when their man strays. And she figured if she could help create a society where piety reigned, women were modest and had no voice, that maybe it might keep Fred faithful. Now her nightmare is that she lives in an oppressive society of her own making, and Fred still cheats on her. He does it literally with her in the room, as well as behind her back. Just a theory. 

[Shangrilala]

Quote

My first thought is that the baby will starve without June or formula.  

Truth.  But desperate times, desperate measures.  True story:  the minister of my church was doing mission work in Lebanon in the 70s when the civil war broke out and she had to evacuate really quickly.  Just as she was about to get on her plane, some Lebanese woman rushed up to her, shoved her baby into her arms, and disappeared (I assume into the crowds that must have been at the airports/on the tarmac?).  She couldn't have known that the baby was going to get out to safety but it's what she did because of the alternative.  

That said, I think the ONLY reason why June stayed was because Fred was using Hannah as a bargaining chip to get her to agree to stay.  I think if he hadn't said that she would have gone - with awful regret, but she would have gone because June is of no use to Hannah in Gilead.  She's also of no use to her in Canada.  So in those circumstances, you go to Canada because no matter where she is, there's nothing she can do. 

How is June going to get back?   Is she just going to saunter back through the backyards to the house and act like she never left?  Like she was in the yard when the fire broke out across the street and couldn't get back inside?  Is she "underground" next season?  I don't get it.  And speaking of the backyards, now that June knows the convenience of skipping through the darkness to get out, what's to stop anybody from doing that?  Hell, Nick, Rita, Serena and June could all go for an evening stroll together if they wanted.  But I loved that Rita had a network.  Margaret ATwood mentions that in the book - that the Martha's have their own network too. 

Was the fire set deliberately to get June out?  Is there a list of handmaids who they need and want to get out?  Did Commander whatshisface say, "okay, Emily may have killed Aunt Lydia, she has to go, she's in grave danger so while we're at it we're going to set the trigger for others on the list?  Or was the fire just the distraction they needed to implement a plan to get June out?"  

My big takeaway of the season:  June is an idiot.  

 

Also -- WHERE IS ALMA?  I loved Alma.  She was my favorite handmaid, and given the opportunity I think is probably the most badass of them all.  

 

Quote

And she figured if she could help create a society where piety reigned, women were modest and had no voice, that maybe it might keep Fred faithful. 

That's just it - I don't think she wanted a society where women had no voice.  She said as much to the Mexican ambassador.  I think she wanted a modest society where women can be heard but ultimately submit to the will of their husbands as head of household, however that's not exactly the way things turned out.  We see right from the start that SErena is miserable.  That doesn't wash the blood from her hands, but she can be guilty AND miserable in her new world.  

Edited July 12, 2018 by Shangrilala

[UNOSEZ]

I understand why some ppl are mad she stayed... But it totally fits with June.. Who makes these kinds of decisions... She couldn't saunter into freedom( presumably Canada)  with her lil baby from the Waterford house while Hannah was now stuck all alone in Gilead ( which while not explicitly racist... Seems very intolerant to otherness)...  Could you imagine that scene?  Luke finally sees his wife after all this time with another mans baby and not with his litle girl... Sure eventually he'd calm down but not right away

[alexvillage]

1 hour ago, Clanstarling said:

I am probably misunderstanding what you mean, but it seems to me that Josh Lyman sounded like Bradley Whitford. Which unless there are different accents required, is pretty much how it works for most actors (with some additional exceptions). He (the Commander) certainly isn't as wordy as Lyman.

Maybe I can't explain well. I understand that an actor can't sound like another person when playing different characters but there are some "tics" that they could avoid to give each character a more distinct personality. BW has a very distinct way of saying things, the rhythm and emphasis of sentences, and I think it is does not work in his favor, as an actor (or at least for my very  unimportant opinion). I don't think many actors can actually play characters that make you forget they played other ones before, and that's one reason why I am not very easily wrapped in the award stuff. I am extremely critical of most. 

The best I can explain is by using Orphan Black as an example. Tatiana Maslany played all those characters and I was so caught in the episodes, I'd often forget that it was only one actor. To me, she was nearly perfect in how she gave each one of them such distinct personalities. There are other actors that can do that as they work in different shows but not many.

 

Editing: I should use a dictionary. Too many "distinct" usage. Sorry!

Edited July 12, 2018 by alexvillage

[Pachengala]

1 hour ago, Shangrilala said:

Truth.  But desperate times, desperate measures.  True story:  the minister of my church was doing mission work in Lebanon in the 70s when the civil war broke out and she had to evacuate really quickly.  Just as she was about to get on her plane, some Lebanese woman rushed up to her, shoved her baby into her arms, and disappeared (I assume into the crowds that must have been at the airports/on the tarmac?).  She couldn't have known that the baby was going to get out to safety but it's what she did because of the alternative.  

What happened to the baby? 

 

32 minutes ago, UNOSEZ said:

Could you imagine that scene?  Luke finally sees his wife after all this time with another mans baby and not with his litle girl... Sure eventually he'd calm down but not right away

I can’t imagine that even these hacky writers would have a husband be ANGRY that his wife was smuggled out of a dystopian, rape-filled regime but wasn’t able to snag their daughter on her way out.

I’m on Team ‘June is an idiot,’ btw, and as a parent would absolutely have gone to Canada. Because obviously in this world, going back means death, and a dead woman can’t save her child. (Of course June has that exec producer plot armor so she won’t die; she’ll lead her ‘army’ of Handmaids, suddenly imbued with ninja skills because why not, to an overthrow of the government and then will install the first major matriarchal power structure in the world! End, Season 10!)

I thought I’d get through this season and then peace out, that’s how disappointing this show has become, but I haven’t even watched this episode; I prefer y’all’s recap.

[Sara2009]

Whitford is definitely a character actor, but IMO he still has quite a bit of range. But different strokes and all that.

[Joana]

13 hours ago, NoSpam said:

June the resistance fighter? Like I said in the Spoiler thread, two weeks ago she couldn't get out of a garage.

She'll probably have some quick crash Pai Mei style training and will be able to break out of a tomb soon enough. 

Or she'll go back to the Waterfords, they'll all inexplicably act like nothing ever happened and she's gonna spend her time making out with Nick in hallways. It could go either way.

[UNOSEZ]

42 minutes ago, Pachengala said:

I can’t imagine that even these hacky writers would have a husband be ANGRY that his wife was smuggled out of a dystopian, rape-filled regime but wasn’t able to snag their daughter on her way out.

I dunno... I mean initially he's gonna look and see this baby( the embodiment of his wife being raped and him powerless to stop it... Of course not knowing the child was actually born from the man she fell in love with ) and not see his little girl... Realizing shes still stuck in that he'll... I think he snaps... He'd be so overcome with differing emotions I'd be surprised and maybe a little miffed if he didn't have an adverse reaction... At least initially... 

[Pachengala]

That makes a lot of sense, @UNOSEZ; I think my original read was a little reductive. 

[Catmeister]

3 hours ago, BeatrixK said:

The burning house -- So First Responders are crawling all over the place...and June, in her bright read garb that sticks out like a sore thumb anywhere she goes....just spirits away with a baby?  (Also -- did anyone else think the house that was burned was Rogue Giliad dude in an attempt to get rid of Aunt Lydia's remains (and maybe his wife -- she seemed to be a lost cause to him.)

I wondered the same thing about the burning house!!    I wasn't very impressed with the ending of this season.  How can Emily feed the baby with her being breastfed?  Is there formula hidden in the escape vehicle?  I get June not wanting to leave Hannah there, but not knowing for sure that Holly and Emily are going to make it out?  That would make me at least want to make sure one of my kids was fully safe from Gilead and go with them.  After last year's attempt failing, I wouldn't feel 100% about this one working.

I also agree that June would likely be killed immediately once she got back to town.  Is she going to live in the woods and hide out now?  Or sneak over to Emilys old Commanders house?  He'd probably hide her out for a little while. 

The writers may have boxed themselves into a corner for season 3 it seems...  and I hope they can make it work without the same stuff happening over again.

[QQQQ]

3 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

That doesn't wash the blood from her hands,

And now some of that blood is, literally, her own.

[Umbelina]

3 hours ago, Shangrilala said:

Truth.  But desperate times, desperate measures.  True story:  the minister of my church was doing mission work in Lebanon in the 70s when the civil war broke out and she had to evacuate really quickly.  Just as she was about to get on her plane, some Lebanese woman rushed up to her, shoved her baby into her arms, and disappeared (I assume into the crowds that must have been at the airports/on the tarmac?).  She couldn't have known that the baby was going to get out to safety but it's what she did because of the alternative.  

That said, I think the ONLY reason why June stayed was because Fred was using Hannah as a bargaining chip to get her to agree to stay.  I think if he hadn't said that she would have gone - with awful regret, but she would have gone because June is of no use to Hannah in Gilead.  She's also of no use to her in Canada.  So in those circumstances, you go to Canada because no matter where she is, there's nothing she can do. 

How is June going to get back?   Is she just going to saunter back through the backyards to the house and act like she never left?  Like she was in the yard when the fire broke out across the street and couldn't get back inside?  Is she "underground" next season?  I don't get it.  And speaking of the backyards, now that June knows the convenience of skipping through the darkness to get out, what's to stop anybody from doing that?  Hell, Nick, Rita, Serena and June could all go for an evening stroll together if they wanted.  But I loved that Rita had a network.  Margaret ATwood mentions that in the book - that the Martha's have their own network too. 

Was the fire set deliberately to get June out?  Is there a list of handmaids who they need and want to get out?  Did Commander whatshisface say, "okay, Emily may have killed Aunt Lydia, she has to go, she's in grave danger so while we're at it we're going to set the trigger for others on the list?  Or was the fire just the distraction they needed to implement a plan to get June out?"  

My big takeaway of the season:  June is an idiot.  

 

Also -- WHERE IS ALMA?  I loved Alma.  She was my favorite handmaid, and given the opportunity I think is probably the most badass of them all.  

 

That's just it - I don't think she wanted a society where women had no voice.  She said as much to the Mexican ambassador.  I think she wanted a modest society where women can be heard but ultimately submit to the will of their husbands as head of household, however that's not exactly the way things turned out.  We see right from the start that SErena is miserable.  That doesn't wash the blood from her hands, but she can be guilty AND miserable in her new world.  

 

Yes, what happened to the baby?  Oddly enough, I had something spookily similar happen to me in the Philippines, Marcos era.  No war yet, but a desperate young Philippina ran up to me (I'm very blonde, I stood out, and generally went to many places most Americans or Europeans don't go) and spoke a lot of rapid Tagalog.  With tears in her eyes and her desperation obvious she handed me her very young infant, and began to run away.  My translator told me she said she couldn't feed her or care for her, she already had other starving children at home, and she begged me to give her a good life.  I was so stunned I just stood there holding the baby.  My driver chased her down and brought her back.  Ignoring everything I'd been told about what to do, I handed the woman all the money I had, about $75, which was a fortune to her, and gave her back her baby, we were all crying.  I'd forgotten all about that.  Birth control was illegal there too by the way.  For those who don't know, that was a LOT of money for her, I hope it helped.

Yes, I think a few things combined while June made her decision.  She found out about the underground railroad.  She found out a Commander was involved or at least willing to assist in escapes.  Fred had just told her he would arrange more visits with Hannah.  She also has Nick, an Eye, and a Mayday member.  She has more resources to rescue Hannah now than ever.  She knows the family name.  Above all though, it was Hannah asking her "Why didn't you try harder?"  I said earlier, I could never have left one of my nieces behind.  While VERY poorly handled by the director and editor, June's decision still rang true to me.

Yes, the Martha's arranged the fire, and acted as lookouts, etc.

I don't think Serena did either.  She's SO much like so many women today, spouting all this shit, hating feminists, she's not that unusual really, except Serena had an audience and was pretty famous.

 

2 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Maybe I can't explain well. I understand that an actor can't sound like another person when playing different characters but there are some "tics" that they could avoid to give each character a more distinct personality. BW has a very distinct way of saying things, the rhythm and emphasis of sentences, and I think it is does not work in his favor, as an actor (or at least for my very  unimportant opinion). I don't think many actors can actually play characters that make you forget they played other ones before, and that's one reason why I am not very easily wrapped in the award stuff. I am extremely critical of most. 

The best I can explain is by using Orphan Black as an example. Tatiana Maslany played all those characters and I was so caught in the episodes, I'd often forget that it was only one actor. To me, she was nearly perfect in how she gave each one of them such distinct personalities. There are other actors that can do that as they work in different shows but not many.

 

Editing: I should use a dictionary. Too many "distinct" usage. Sorry!

 

Luckily, I've never seen him in anything else, and to me, he was perfection.  The breathe of fresh air this show desperately needed, and the first man, other than the CIA guy, both written and acted in a compelling way on this show.

More than just Joseph though (I think that's his first name) I was also intrigued by the wife and Martha.  That's one interesting household!

2 hours ago, Pachengala said:

What happened to the baby? 

 

I can’t imagine that even these hacky writers would have a husband be ANGRY that his wife was smuggled out of a dystopian, rape-filled regime but wasn’t able to snag their daughter on her way out.

I’m on Team ‘June is an idiot,’ btw, and as a parent would absolutely have gone to Canada. Because obviously in this world, going back means death, and a dead woman can’t save her child. (Of course June has that exec producer plot armor so she won’t die; she’ll lead her ‘army’ of Handmaids, suddenly imbued with ninja skills because why not, to an overthrow of the government and then will install the first major matriarchal power structure in the world! End, Season 10!)

I thought I’d get through this season and then peace out, that’s how disappointing this show has become, but I haven’t even watched this episode; I prefer y’all’s recap.

I think things will change next season.  The reviewers have been downright scathing for them, and they are saying many of the things we've said.  Stop dragging this out, world build, etc.

June's fate and Fred's fate, and even to some extent Gilead's fate are covered in the book.  Honestly, getting rid of Fred would open up both Serena's and June's worlds, giving them much more to play and do, and with better actors.  They can't keep with this rinse and repeat, or Gilligan's island stuff with misery and keep their audience.  I'm hoping they get the message.  Also the message about continuity and not dropping plot points willy nilly.

2 hours ago, Joana said:

She'll probably have some quick crash Pai Mei style training and will be able to break out of a tomb soon enough. 

Or she'll go back to the Waterfords, they'll all inexplicably act like nothing ever happened and she's gonna spend her time making out with Nick in hallways. It could go either way.

I think she'll go back as well.  It makes the most sense.  Fred is offering access to Hannah, the only reason she stayed.  Fred and Serena are in no shape to make more waves in Gilead, have yet another scandal.  Covering for June and blaming it all on the nutcase Emily makes the most sense for their survival.  However, going back doesn't have to mean staying there for long.  There are so many ways they can resolve that story, in ways that will improve the show. 

Some spoilerish stuff has already dropped about next season, and when you put that together with them probably taking the criticisms in the reviews seriously, and with book canon?  Good stuff could be on the horizon, some great stuff really.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Umbelina

[NoSpam]

6 hours ago, alexvillage said:

I think I am the only one but I am not impressed by Commander Lawrence. Yes, he helped and seems to be on the side of the resistance but the sarcasm, the one-liners, it all seemed a little forced to me.

You're not alone. I found him to be unbelievable and cartoonish. We've seen powerful men have their households shot. No way has he gotten away with mouthing off to Aunts, other than lazy-writing-plot-reasons. The Aunt Lydia of season one would have informed on him.

And I found his lines cringy. "Super."--such an 80s thing to say. And "Stay off drugs.". I was eye rolling hard.

A lot of the dialog is nonsensical, but his was the worst.

8 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

I think things will change next season.  The reviewers have been downright scathing for them, and they are saying many of the things we've said.  Stop dragging this out, world build, etc

 

I don't think the show runner or the writers have the ability.

The first three episodes of the series, true to Atwood's book, were the ones that held together. After episode three, things became disjointed and episodic, with poor servicing of the rest of the cast.

Actors should never be credited as Executive Producer. We'll never get any subtlety out of Elizabeth Moss.  Between the bad writing and her over the top, monotonous acting, I am ready for June to die. With this last scene, she literally chose certain death--or what would be certain death in a show that remained true to whatever world they've built.

[alexvillage]

5 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

And I found his lines cringy. "Super."--such an 80s thing to say. And "Stay off drugs.". I was eye rolling hard.

A lot of the dialog is nonsensical, but his was the worst.

Yes, that was weird. Like I said, it looked like they had several scenes that didn't make the final cut. It was totally out of place, as if the writers wanted to force us to like the character because of, like you said, nonsensical lines. Unnecessary for the plot.

[Ruby]

Quote

The best I can explain is by using Orphan Black as an example. Tatiana Maslany played all those characters and I was so caught in the episodes, I'd often forget that it was only one actor. To me, she was nearly perfect in how she gave each one of them such distinct personalities. There are other actors that can do that as they work in different shows but not many.

OMG, she was awesome.

[Umbelina]

I found Commander Lawrence believable.  He seems like an intelligent man, he chose Emily for a reason, and it wasn't to fuck her.  Just because everyone else is acting like a robot there, doesn't mean ALL people would.  As a matter of fact, as I said before, his household is actually the sanest we've see in Gilead.  It only seems insane because we've become used to insanity being normalized, so someone acting in a normal way seems odd.

Whatever his reasons were for helping to create Gilead, all it takes is looking around at the result to understand why he may have regrets, or be undermining the system.  Finding out why is the key, and if the writers handle that well, his character will remain compelling for me.

[Pachengala]

21 minutes ago, NoSpam said:

The first three episodes of the series, true to Atwood's book, were the ones that held together. After episode three, things became disjointed and episodic, with poor servicing of the rest of the cast.

This! This! So hard this! Those first three episodes were the most riveting, horrific television I’ve ever seen. Like, I couldn’t sleep afterwards, they were so chilling. But then they decided to go off-book, throw in some girl power, and dilute the message so much that it was almost like a different show. It’s just sad, after those first episodes. And then we get this mess of a season. They’ve gone so completely off the rails, Atwood should make them change the name. 

Well, but at least she’s getting paid and people are being introduced to the book; I’m glad for that.

[Sara2009]

1 hour ago, Umbelina said:

Yes, what happened to the baby?  Oddly enough, I had something spookily similar happen to me in the Philippines, Marcos era.  No war yet, but a desperate young Philippina ran up to me (I'm very blonde, I stood out, and generally went to many places most Americans or Europeans don't go) and spoke a lot of rapid Tagalog.  With tears in her eyes and her desperation obvious she handed me her very young infant, and began to run away.  My translator told me she said she couldn't feed her or care for her, she already had other starving children at home, and she begged me to give her a good life.  I was so stunned I just stood there holding the baby.  My driver chased her down and brought her back.  Ignoring everything I'd been told about what to do, I handed the woman all the money I had, about $75, which was a fortune to her, and gave her back her baby, we were all crying.  I'd forgotten all about that.  Birth control was illegal there too by the way.  For those who don't know, that was a LOT of money for her, I hope it helped.

Yes, I think a few things combined while June made her decision.  She found out about the underground railroad.  She found out a Commander was involved or at least willing to assist in escapes.  Fred had just told her he would arrange more visits with Hannah.  She also has Nick, an Eye, and a Mayday member.  She has more resources to rescue Hannah now than ever.  She knows the family name.  Above all though, it was Hannah asking her "Why didn't you try harder?"  I said earlier, I could never have left one of my nieces behind.  While VERY poorly handled by the director and editor, June's decision still rang true to me.

Yes, the Martha's arranged the fire, and acted as lookouts, etc.

I don't think Serena did either.  She's SO much like so many women today, spouting all this shit, hating feminists, she's not that unusual really, except Serena had an audience and was pretty famous.

 

Luckily, I've never seen him in anything else, and to me, he was perfection.  The breathe of fresh air this show desperately needed, and the first man, other than the CIA guy, both written and acted in a compelling way on this show.

More than just Joseph though (I think that's his first name) I was also intrigued by the wife and Martha.  That's one interesting household!

I think things will change next season.  The reviewers have been downright scathing for them, and they are saying many of the things we've said.  Stop dragging this out, world build, etc.

June's fate and Fred's fate, and even to some extent Gilead's fate are covered in the book.  Honestly, getting rid of Fred would open up both Serena's and June's worlds, giving them much more to play and do, and with better actors.  They can't keep with this rinse and repeat, or Gilligan's island stuff with misery and keep their audience.  I'm hoping they get the message.  Also the message about continuity and not dropping plot points willy nilly.

I think she'll go back as well.  It makes the most sense.  Fred is offering access to Hannah, the only reason she stayed.  Fred and Serena are in no shape to make more waves in Gilead, have yet another scandal.  Covering for June and blaming it all on the nutcase Emily makes the most sense for their survival.  However, going back doesn't have to mean staying there for long.  There are so many ways they can resolve that story, in ways that will improve the show. 

Some spoilerish stuff has already dropped about next season, and when you put that together with them probably taking the criticisms in the reviews seriously, and with book canon?  Good stuff could be on the horizon, some great stuff really.

FWIW, I’ve found Whitford great in everything I’ve seen him in. His “ The West Wing” character was quite different from his “ Get Out” character too.

[VagueDisclaimer]

Legit asking, not being snarky, but what has been shown in any of the Canadian scenes proves that if June had gone there that she’d gave more success in getting Hannah out?

Anyone that is there has escaped, not been rescued. Their leaders are meeting with Gilead leaders and only once they got those letters, that were smuggled IN by Nick, did they put a halt to the chats. If it were easier to get people out on their side, wouldn’t we have seen some indication of this? Wouldn’t we see Luke and Moira doing something, anything? 

While I do believe June is stuck(and will be stuck) in Gilead for lazy TV show reasons, I also don’t think that June has more of a chance of getting Hannah out from the outside. What June does have in Gilead is more of an understanding of how that fucked up world works, the evidence that the resistance isn’t actually dead, Nick, who still clearly has pull, and more knowledge about where Hannah is and who she’s with.

I’ve stated before that I can’t and won’t believe June is returning to the Waterfords until I see evidence. Maybe she finds her way back to Comm. Lawrence and his Martha can help set her up in a Martha position away from the Waterford household and their circle. I don’t know. But right now I see June returning to Gilead as a rescuer and not one that is going to be rescued or attempted to be rescued until the end and even then, I don’t see her necessarily ever getting to that free and clear state. 

[Shangrilala]

Quote

What happened to the baby? 

well, when you hear her tell it, she froze (stunned primarily, by what had just happened and the fact that a woman was so desperate that she gave the baby to a basic stranger), got shoved onto the plane and she brought the baby home.  No idea how she fed it on the trip or anything like that, but after she was back in the US she worked with getting the baby placed in a good home through contacts within the governing organization of the church.  I think she tried to find the mother but was never able to which would make sense given the chaos that went on in Lebanon for so long, and to my knowledge she's stayed connected to the child for a long time (may still be to this day?  not sure ---I should ask her.  I heard the story about 10 years ago when my then fiance - now husband - and I were meeting with her about our wedding, forgot about it until this conversation).  

[DuckyinKy]

5 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

Aunt Lydia can languish in a coma in the hospital bed and have flashbacks/memories to tell us her back story, inquiring minds you know!

That is a fantastic idea! From your lips to Gilead's writers. 

[Umbelina]

I honestly don't care about Lydia's backstory, and frankly, I'm sick of flashbacks. 

The only flashback I really want to see is something clarifying that the murder of the president and congress, all leaders really, was blamed on Islamic Terrorists, and that's how they were able to suspend the press and our other freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.  I want it clear that people in the USA willingly allowed that, because "Yikes!  Terrorism!  Not Christians!  Not white!  Do whatever it takes to protect us!"  I think that message was lost in the earlier flashbacks, and it needs to be clear.

The Lydias and Serenas of this world, both Gilead, and the real world?  Are honestly nothing special, they are common and infuriating.  I don't CARE how they got that way, what I do care about is seeing them disillusioned with what they have wrought, possibly coming to terms with the horrors they've propelled and participated in.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Umbelina

[NoSpam]

57 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Just because everyone else is acting like a robot there, doesn't mean ALL people would.  As a matter of fact, as I said before, his household is actually the sanest we've see in Gilead.  It only seems insane because we've become used to insanity being normalized, so someone acting in a normal way seems odd.

 

I'm not saying he's crazy. I'm saying it's 1. heavy-handed, OTT dialog , and 2.unbelievable that he acts that way way and gets away with it. In the Gilead we've seen, his behavior would get them all killed. I don't think it's unfair to expect consistency from what little world building this show has done. But I should know better than to expect subtle writing from this show.

And I'm finding the characters more unbelievable with each episode. It's like the characters have no motivation anymore, they just go where the writers tell them.

[charmed1]

Initially, I thought Ofglen-Joseph’s ”Snapped” episode featuring Aunt Lydia was a dream sequence. The scene was one of the few that I’ve seen that took place in bright light. 

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, NoSpam said:

I'm not saying he's crazy. I'm saying it's 1. heavy-handed, OTT dialog , and 2.unbelievable that he acts that way way and gets away with it. In the Gilead we've seen, his behavior would get them all killed. I don't think it's unfair to expect consistency from what little world building this show has done. But I should know better than to expect subtle writing from this show.

And I'm finding the characters more unbelievable with each episode. It's like the characters have no motivation anymore, they just go where the writers tell them.

Yes, I agree in part.  They have no continuity, and they have all the characters behave in any way that works for THAT episode, even when it directly contradicts or works against what they did in the episode before, or in canon.  It's the biggest issue this show has, writing decent episodes, but lousy, sloppy, unbelievable story arcs and characters.

• Lydia is whatever they want in that episode.  Cozy, a monster, casual, strict, she's all over the map
• June is so poorly written and directed, is she superhero or victim?  She could believably be both, but the writing fails her, in spite of amazing acting.  The slowness while escaping, crippling fear for her child one scenes, screaming "you are not the father!" in the next. 
• Emily still even being alive is a huge stretch, I'm glad she is, but what the fuck writers?
• That wife who is mean to her baby?  NOW the baby is thriving and happy?  HOW?  NOW she wants girls to read?  WHY?  She didn't even attend that drowning.  HELLO!

One hand never seems to know what the other is doing, and that is the showrunner's fault, not the actresses, and not the individual writers.

Lydia's near worship of him wasn't enough to justify either her behavior there, or his existence.  It helped, but not enough.

Still, he's one character I can happily fan-wank enough to accept, for now.  I loved every single minute of him and his household.

[Joana]

1 hour ago, NoSpam said:

You're not alone. I found him to be unbelievable and cartoonish. We've seen powerful men have their households shot. No way has he gotten away with mouthing off to Aunts, other than lazy-writing-plot-reasons. The Aunt Lydia of season one would have informed on him.

I'm fairly sure the authorities are aware of his eccentric lifestyle and are letting him be - for now, at least. I don't even find it that difficult to believe - even the most authoritarian regimes can turn a blind eye to someone's otherwise forbidden proclivities if they find that person valuable enough. I mean, some of Hitler's closest associates were homosexuals, and Nazi German was hardly any different from Gilead as far as gay rights are concerned. So, I'm OK with that.

What I can't get on board with is the idea that someone in his position would be able to get a handmaid out of the country as easily as that, and as implied, not for the first time either. Gilead as originally introduced is a society where every remotely important person has Eyes on them and even the Eyes have their own Eyes. Someone ALWAYS knows what the others are doing. And like I said, if the authorities can find a use for them, some things can be ignored. Enjoying art or music that's considered sinful in the privacy of your home? An occasional visit to the Jezebels? OK. Smuggling an extremely valuable asset out of the country? Not OK. 

With all the torture and all the mutilation and all the executions, the scene that I probably found the most chilling in the entire show was Emily suddenly disappeared and Ofglenn 2.0 popped up in her stead, and no one knew what the hell had happened. Because that's what Gilead is all about, a place where you can vanish overnight and never be seen or heard from again, and nobody could ask a question about it. Where every single thing you say or do can be monitored by someone. Where all it takes is a gesture someone takes the wrong way for you to be taken away and disposed of, and you'd never see it coming.

Of course, that kind of claustrophobic, paranoid atmosphere is long gone and pretty much everyone does what they please. 

[chaifan]

14 minutes ago, charmed1 said:

Initially, I thought Ofglen-Joseph’s ”Snapped” episode featuring Aunt Lydia was a dream sequence. The scene was one of the few that I’ve seen that took place in bright light. 

Speaking of brightly lit scenes, can we just all agree that Naomi has the best house in Gilead?  All the light streaming in, light rooms and furnishings, love that balcony, and just a gorgeous house all around.  Please writers figure out a plot line that involves more scenes in that house! 

And while I'm on that scene, I loved seeing the differences in the teal outfits.  Naomi's was quite avant garde compared to the rest with the ruffles and such.  I need to rewatch to see what the others were wearing. 

[Sara2009]

This is random, but I keep forgetting that Bradley Whitford and Alexis Bledel were both in the first “Sisterhood” movie.

[Umbelina]

6 minutes ago, Joana said:

What I can't get on board with is the idea that someone in his position would be able to get a handmaid out of the country as easily as that, and as implied, not for the first time either. Gilead as originally introduced is a society where every remotely important person has Eyes on them and even the Eyes have their own Eyes.

He may be in charge of the Eyes for all we know.  That would actually make sense in many ways.  That would make him so powerful many would be afraid to cross him.  Like the head of the KGB or SS, you don't want to piss him off.  He would, by now, probably have something on everyone if that's the case.

That could really pay off if one of my dreams for next season comes true, and June is assigned there.

[Pachengala]

1 hour ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

Legit asking, not being snarky, but what has been shown in any of the Canadian scenes proves that if June had gone there that she’d gave more success in getting Hannah out?

Anyone that is there has escaped, not been rescued. Their leaders are meeting with Gilead leaders and only once they got those letters, that were smuggled IN by Nick, did they put a halt to the chats. If it were easier to get people out on their side, wouldn’t we have seen some indication of this? Wouldn’t we see Luke and Moira doing something, anything? 

While I do believe June is stuck(and will be stuck) in Gilead for lazy TV show reasons, I also don’t think that June has more of a chance of getting Hannah out from the outside. What June does have in Gilead is more of an understanding of how that fucked up world works, the evidence that the resistance isn’t actually dead, Nick, who still clearly has pull, and more knowledge about where Hannah is and who she’s with.

We know this about Canada, but June doesn’t. She knows her husband and best friend escaped there and are alive and well, per Nick, and she knows that if she is caught in Gilead she will be executed. (She doesn’t know about her character’s plot armor, either.) She has no idea what her chances are for rescuing Hannah from the outside, but she knows, or she should but apparently doesn’t because she’s an idiot, exactly what her chances are on the inside. 

Obviously mileage varies on this. I’m just saying, if I were in her situation, armed with the limited knowledge she has AND carrying my newborn child, you couldn’t get me to Canada quickly enough.

[Umbelina]

I forgot to mention something, and I don't think anyone else has either, I've read all the threads.

That confrontation between Nick and Fred?  Almost made me laugh, then I mostly felt pity.  Honestly, the two weakest performers on the show, both of whom should have stand out characters?  Nose to nose like that? 

It reminded me of a Chihuahua and a Yorkie in a stand off.  Neither have the acting chops or physical presence needed for those roles to matter. 

[ferjy]

5 hours ago, alexvillage said:

Maybe I can't explain well. I understand that an actor can't sound like another person when playing different characters but there are some "tics" that they could avoid to give each character a more distinct personality. BW has a very distinct way of saying things, the rhythm and emphasis of sentences, and I think it is does not work in his favor, as an actor (or at least for my very  unimportant opinion). I don't think many actors can actually play characters that make you forget they played other ones before, and that's one reason why I am not very easily wrapped in the award stuff. I am extremely critical of most. 

The best I can explain is by using Orphan Black as an example. Tatiana Maslany played all those characters and I was so caught in the episodes, I'd often forget that it was only one actor. To me, she was nearly perfect in how she gave each one of them such distinct personalities. There are other actors that can do that as they work in different shows but not many.

 

Editing: I should use a dictionary. Too many "distinct" usage. Sorry!

True that it may not always work in his favour, but I think he’s perfect for this part. He’s so refreshing after all the stiff full-of-themselves commanders and even everyone else, robots living a lie out of fear. His reply to the usual Praised Be, May the Lord Open crap of “Super” was priceless. He’s the only bit of much needed misery relief in the show at the moment. 

[Shangrilala]

Quote

What I can't get on board with is the idea that someone in his position would be able to get a handmaid out of the country as easily as that, and as implied, not for the first time either. Gilead as originally introduced is a society where every remotely important person has Eyes on them and even the Eyes have their own Eyes. Someone ALWAYS knows what the others are doing. And like I said, if the authorities can find a use for them, some things can be ignored. Enjoying art or music that's considered sinful in the privacy of your home? An occasional visit to the Jezebels? OK. Smuggling an extremely valuable asset out of the country? Not OK. 

What's his position?  Not trying to be snarky.  Legitimate question - I have no idea what his true role in Gilead is other than the brief snippets we've been given.  The architect of Gilead's economy.  Very important.  Being in his home is an opportunity.  ACcording to Aunt Lydia.  Creator of the colonies.  According to his wife.  His household enjoys their privacy.  According to him.  We don't have much more.  What we have is very little and we are drawing a lot of conclusions based on what the show has told us.  It could be that TPTB in Gilead view him as the crazy old family member who was once the center of the world, but now is still crazy but sits off to the side -- but they still refer to him as all those things, but reality is at this point in life, they just placate him and be sure he's invited to the family holiday party and goes out to lunch with everybody now and then.  

They have no idea he smuggled his handmaid out.  The authorities will be walking into a scenario where Aunt Lydia has been stabbed and beat up.  And the handmaid is gone.  Why assume that a person of his position and beliefs took her out as opposed to she just made a break for it?  In Gilead's eyes, based on their experience with Emily, this is more believable.   Furthermore, we saw the maid yell "call an ambulance."  We have no idea if they did right away (unless we heard the sirens and I missed it which is possible).  Who knows when the authorities arrived at that house?  

[ferjy]

1 hour ago, NoSpam said:

I'm not saying he's crazy. I'm saying it's 1. heavy-handed, OTT dialog , and 2.unbelievable that he acts that way way and gets away with it. In the Gilead we've seen, his behavior would get them all killed. I don't think it's unfair to expect consistency from what little world building this show has done. But I should know better than to expect subtle writing from this show.

And I'm finding the characters more unbelievable with each episode. It's like the characters have no motivation anymore, they just go where the writers tell them.

There are definite inconsistencies in the show, and I think you're right about bad editing, but I thought that he might be able to get away with more things than others because of his standing, "the architect of Gilead's economy". He seems to be revered. Although I thought that he should at least make the effort with certain people around, like with Aunt Lydia. I would have been more careful around her (though it was fun seeing him unceremoniously usher her out the door). But all his other scenes were with Emily, his wife and the resistance, so I think it's acceptable there. I don't mind if he lets loose in those situations.

Edited July 12, 2018 by ferjy

[VagueDisclaimer]

1 hour ago, Pachengala said:

We know this about Canada, but June doesn’t. She knows her husband and best friend escaped there and are alive and well, per Nick, and she knows that if she is caught in Gilead she will be executed. (She doesn’t know about her character’s plot armor, either.) She has no idea what her chances are for rescuing Hannah from the outside, but she knows, or she should but apparently doesn’t because she’s an idiot, exactly what her chances are on the inside. 

Obviously mileage varies on this. I’m just saying, if I were in her situation, armed with the limited knowledge she has AND carrying my newborn child, you couldn’t get me to Canada quickly enough.

Well, first, when i presented the question, I wasn’t asking from June’s perspective, because it wasn’t June saying she would’ve been better off. It was other posters I was asking and why they thought Canada was a proven better option. 

Second, June knows they escaped, all she knows is escape, not a rescue from the outside. She knows once people have escaped into Canada, they’re safe, but until Nick recently told her Moira made it, she had no idea. She knows that there haven’t been rescue attempts made and the resistance members are from within. That might be enough, along with everything else I mentioned, that made her stay with the devil that she knows.

Edited July 12, 2018 by VagueDisclaimer

[PsychoDrone]

June can NOT go back to the Waterfords.  Really, the only way season 3 should start is with June (if dumb enough to go back to Waterfords), Serena, and the Commander hanging from the wall.  The Waterfords lost a handmaid to suicide, had another handmaid escape twice, and a "resident" living in their house commit adultery.  How many screwups are required before Gilead kills a household?  The handmaid blew up the commander's assembly and everyone in the house was killed.  Pretty bad, but still gives an idea of how Gilead deals with its members and higher ups.

Unfortunately, Lydia isn't dead.  No body, no death.  One thing I know she will have learned from Emily is to NEVER turn her back on a Handmaid again.  Not sure how Commander Lawrence will sweep this under the rug.

Not feeling June staying in Gilead.  Doesn't feel organic.  Also, it's her doing things without thinking of the consequences for others.  The Marthas put themselves in jeopardy to get her out and she rejects it.  The Waterford's Martha should be highly pissed.  Someone mentioned it upthread that there may have been a bigger reason for getting June out and she essentially screwed that up.  "Thanks June."  It's not just about freeing her baby daughter, but freeing all the children from Gilead.

[Umbelina]

14 minutes ago, PsychoDrone said:

Unfortunately, Lydia isn't dead.  No body, no death.  One thing I know she will have learned from Emily is to NEVER turn her back on a Handmaid again.  Not sure how Commander Lawrence will sweep this under the rug.

Nutty handmaid, with a history of problems, he benevolently gave her another chance after all the other Commanders turned her down.  She went crazy, tried to kill an Aunt, stole the Waterford's baby, and has now disappeared.  So much for second chances, he shouldn't have been so kindhearted.

14 minutes ago, PsychoDrone said:

Not feeling June staying in Gilead.  Doesn't feel organic.  Also, it's her doing things without thinking of the consequences for others.  The Marthas put themselves in jeopardy to get her out and she rejects it.  The Waterford's Martha should be highly pissed.  Someone mentioned it upthread that there may have been a bigger reason for getting June out and she essentially screwed that up.  "Thanks June."  It's not just about freeing her baby daughter, but freeing all the children from Gilead.

She didn't ask them too, and they did get her baby out, as well as Emily, so it's not a failure.  If they had told her she could have prepared, and had time to think.

Her child just asked her "Why didn't you try harder?"  She's JUST seen what will happen to Hannah, what is happening to her, being raised as chattel for some man she's never met, not even learning to read.  She additionally now knows about the Femaleroad out, has an Eye (Nick) who is also in Mayday, and has a besotted Fred who will let her visit with Hannah, she also has Hannah's new name, first and last.  She also knows a powerful commander is helping with an escape.  So many reasons to have hope there. Even without all of those things?  Leaving your child behind is not something most women would do, if there was ANY chance of saving her.  June has several chances now, still long-shots, but it's hardly impossible.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

@PsychoDrone

You just made me think of something, and the show better not ignore follow up on this as they've done on everything else this season!

Lawrence and the Femalerailroad Martha's have to be working together.  The timing is too close for anything else to be true.  Fire set either right before or right after Emily unexpectedly stabs Lydia.  So, was the Commander already in on that rescue as well, and only at the last minute had to rescue Emily? 

He's got to be in communication with them.

[PsychoDrone]

1 minute ago, Umbelina said:

Nutty handmaid, with a history of problems, he benevolently gave her another chance after all the other Commanders turned her down.  She went crazy, tried to kill an Aunt, stole the Waterford's baby, and has now disappeared.  So much for second chances, he shouldn't have been so kindhearted.

She didn't ask them too, and they did get her baby out, as well as Emily, so it's not a failure.  If they had told her she could have prepared, and had time to think.

Her child just asked her "Why didn't you try harder?"  She's JUST seen what will happen to Hannah, what is happening to her, being raised as chattel for some man she's never met, not even learning to read.  She additionally now knows about the Femaleroad out, has an Eye (Nick) who is also in Mayday, and has a besotted Fred who will let her visit with Hannah, she also has Hannah's new name, first and last.  Even without all of those things?  Leaving your child behind is not something most women would do, if there was ANY chance of saving her.  June has several chances now, still long-shots, but it's hardly impossible.

Your reasoning for Commander Lawrence and Emily works, except for Emily taking the Waterford's baby.  How would Emily have gotten access to Nicohle to abduct her?  I could see Lawrence selling Gilead on one, but not both.

June can't go back to the Waterfords.  That would be a death sentence for her and potentially others.  How do the Waterfords explain the loss of the baby, but June is alright, that doesn't raise suspicion?  It seems Gilead would assign another investigator and this one wouldn't be as easily removed as the other one. 

[Umbelina]

Chaos from the fire, Fred and Serena covering their own asses, Emily is obviously nuts, and knew June, perhaps she was baby-obsessed too.  Who knows the mind of a lunatic?  Nick could even say he saw her, gave chase but lost her.

[PsychoDrone]

12 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

@PsychoDrone

You just made me think of something, and the show better not ignore follow up on this as they've done on everything else this season!

Lawrence and the Femalerailroad Martha's have to be working together.  The timing is too close for anything else to be true.  Fire set either right before or right after Emily unexpectedly stabs Lydia.  So, was the Commander already in on that rescue as well, and only at the last minute had to rescue Emily? 

He's got to be in communication with them.

Commander Lawrence is part of the resistance.  You are right, too much coincidence.  The Martha wasn't so much angry about Lydia being stabbed, but that Emily potentially ruined their setup.  Emily's knife was going in someone.  Fortunately, Lawrence didn't follow through with the ceremony, so he was unharmed.  Emily doesn't give a damn.  She's killed two people already and has resigned herself to her fate.  She's a badass too.

Edited July 12, 2018 by PsychoDrone

[VagueDisclaimer]

3 minutes ago, Umbelina said:

Chaos from the fire, Fred and Serena covering their own asses, Emily is obviously nuts, and knew June, perhaps she was baby-obsessed too.  Who knows the mind of a lunatic?  Nick could even say he saw her, gave chase but lost her.

Well, crap, now I’m starting to accept that they really might stick June back there. If they can push everything off on Emily, then June being there would make the house, which is already in question and disarray, appear somewhat more stable from the outside. However, from the inside, it’s a staff of defiance and a likely very changed Serena. I mean, who is Serena now? Her delusions of grandeur and motherhood have all been entirely shattered.

Fred has power and sadism on his side, but he is so very weak. That household was already much stronger than he realized, it could be much worse. Obviously, Fred can play the Hannah card, but beyond arranging visits, i don’t think Fred’s power could extend to harming or moving Hannah when she’s a part of a family. 

Ugh. I really don’t want the story to be centered on the darkened rooms and hallways of Waterfords again, but... 

[Umbelina]

Either that, or he's aware that his Martha, Cora, is with the underground railroad and just asked her how they get Emily out.  Cora tells him they already have an escape operation going that night, and tells him where to drive her to meet up with them.

Edited July 12, 2018 by Umbelina

[Umbelina]

1 minute ago, VagueDisclaimer said:

Well, crap, now I’m starting to accept that they really might stick June back there. If they can push everything off on Emily, then June being there would make the house, which is already in question and disarray, appear somewhat more stable from the outside. However, from the inside, it’s a staff of defiance and a likely very changed Serena. I mean, who is Serena now? Her delusions of grandeur and motherhood have all been entirely shattered.

Fred has power and sadism on his side, but he is so very weak. That household was already much stronger than he realized, it could be much worse. Obviously, Fred can play the Hannah card, but beyond arranging visits, i don’t think Fred’s power could extend to harming or moving Hannah when she’s a part of a family. 

Ugh. I really don’t want the story to be centered on the darkened rooms and hallways of Waterfords again, but... 

I really don't think it will be, but I do expect June to return to to the house for at least a few episodes, Fred is her best option to visit with Hannah, and she needs Nick and the Martha's if an escape/rescue is ever to happen.

This all, to me, sets up something that happens in the book, actually it's not the first time this season (and last) has set it up.  I really think something from the book will happen by mid-third-season.

Spoiler

Fred is arrested, tried, and convicted, killed soon after the first purges.

https://1.cdn.edl.io/rOZeEoIzqLA5h7b4cDX6aDEBZuJXyRRW0YD6o0ns1BB0gpbC.pdf

BOOK PDF:  Page 233