S02.E13: The Word

[Eri]

If June chooses to stay in Gilead then fine but it burns me up that she'd want the baby's name to be "Nicole" after all Serena put her through! This is the same woman who would smack her and anyone else around in the house when she was having a bad day, allowed her husband to rape her and who would humiliate and dehumanize her at every turn and because she showed June an ounce of humanity at the last minute she is suddenly deserving of having the baby's name remain "Nicole" instead of Holly? I'd sooner have her be named after Eden or Janine or Rita (the very person who's been watching over her and helped her escape). Ugh, burns me up!

[Earlwoode]

4 hours ago, Eri said:

If June chooses to stay in Gilead then fine but it burns me up that she'd want the baby's name to be "Nicole" after all Serena put her through!

But wasn’t Nicole a reference to Nick as her father?  That’s what I always thought.  I don’t get though, how June reconciles the fact she loves Nick with the husband she left behind?  Mind you, I think what’s-his-name is totally uncharismatic and as boring as a rock but still...  He was supposed to be the great love of her life, the guy she broke up a marriage to snare.  All that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

[LittleRed84]

On 7/11/2018 at 9:33 PM, Scarlett45 said:

Women are terribly unforgiving of other women and men somehow get a pass.

Amen sister. Amen. ??

[Clanstarling]

6 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

But wasn’t Nicole a reference to Nick as her father?  That’s what I always thought.  I don’t get though, how June reconciles the fact she loves Nick with the husband she left behind?  Mind you, I think what’s-his-name is totally uncharismatic and as boring as a rock but still...  He was supposed to be the great love of her life, the guy she broke up a marriage to snare.  All that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

Yes, it was. But it was Serena's choice (I assume) and imo intended to needle Fred.

I have no problem with June loving both of them. We love multiple people all the time (children,friends, family, etc.), why should that be different with men, especially under the circumstances? Most of us tend to deny that and insist on monogamy (which I do), but plenty of people don't and live in polyamorous relationships (and I'm not talking about LDS fundamentalists)

[Ceindreadh]

8 hours ago, Earlwoode said:

But wasn’t Nicole a reference to Nick as her father?  That’s what I always thought.  I don’t get though, how June reconciles the fact she loves Nick with the husband she left behind?  Mind you, I think what’s-his-name is totally uncharismatic and as boring as a rock but still...  He was supposed to be the great love of her life, the guy she broke up a marriage to snare.  All that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

June has been separated from her husband for years. For most of that time she didn’t know if he was alive or dead. Nick has been one of the few people she can be herself with. I have no problem with her falling for her only source of comfort in those few years.

Now, as to what would happen if all three of them ended up in a place of safety, I don’t know.  But if you’re in a place where you can be beaten or mutilated or executed on a whim, and you’ve got somebody you believe won’t hurt you, then yeah, I’d probably fall in love with them too. 

[AngelaHunter]

8 hours ago, Ceindreadh said:

 But if you’re in a place where you can be beaten or mutilated or executed on a whim, and you’ve got somebody you believe won’t hurt you, then yeah, I’d probably fall in love with them too. 

I've said the same thing. Id' fall in love with anyone who gave me a kind word or a touch that didn't hurt or degrade me. In such a precarious and brutal situation, you take comfort where you can find it. Humans need this. It would give June a very empty satisfaction if she continues being systematically raped,  ends up at the bottom of the pool, hanging on the wall or sent to the Colonies to tell herself, "At least I repulsed the only person who offered me love and caring and I remained faithful to the husband I haven't seen in years and and may never see again, assuming I survive in this hellish place. Yay me." Of course, that she has no idea if that husband has remarried, is living with another woman, has another child with her or or has five girlfriends shouldn't be of a concern.

[DangerousMinds]

On 7/22/2018 at 3:45 AM, Earlwoode said:

But wasn’t Nicole a reference to Nick as her father?  That’s what I always thought.  I don’t get though, how June reconciles the fact she loves Nick with the husband she left behind?  Mind you, I think what’s-his-name is totally uncharismatic and as boring as a rock but still...  He was supposed to be the great love of her life, the guy she broke up a marriage to snare.  All that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

It's entirely possible to have strong feelings for more than one person at a time.

[Baltimore Betty]

7 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

It's entirely possible to have strong feelings for more than one person at a time.

I once cheated on snickerdoodles with cheesecake, I felt dirty but I got over it.  

The strong feelings June feels for Nick is her lifeline in an impossible situation, had Gilead never happened June would have never waivered on her marriage with Luke but life went sideways and she needed something to hold on to.  She also knew she needed to have a baby to survive the hell she is in.  Nick offered viable sperm and sanity.

[UNOSEZ]

Maybe I read it is heard it wrong.. But wasn't season 2 gonna talk about race?...  I super enjoyed this season but I kept thinking it would come up.. And with seemingly less moira and Luke this season.. I dunno.. Maybe next season I guess

[Earlwoode]

On 7/22/2018 at 5:29 PM, Ceindreadh said:

June has been separated from her husband for years. For most of that time she didn’t know if he was alive or dead.

It's not been more than 4 years - not that long to forget a man who was the father of her child and whom she was supposed to love a lot.  And she does know he is alive after the Mexican episode which could have happened two years before now (thought the timeline in this series is very wonky -one of the irritating things about it).  Frankly, I don't find either of these two guys attractive in the least so I don't really get how she fell for either (or both) of them.  But, of course, we all find different people attractive.

[Veronimo]

What has Luke been doing? It seems crazy to me that he isn't actively fighting to get to June and Hannah. He doesn't appear to have any other family, so why isn't he clawing, scratching, bulldozing his way to the family he does have? All he seems to do is wander around Little America with his hands in his pockets. When he's brought in to meet with the woman who gives him the note from June, he thinks he's there for a different reason. He pulls some papers out of his pockets and says something about a bunch of people found at a school or something, but she cuts him off. That's the only indication we get that he has some kind of job or is doing some kind of research into what's going on. I really hope they fill us in on what he's been doing for the last 3 or 4 years.

And...has no one debriefed Moira? She was trained at the Red Center, she survived sexual slavery at Jezebel's, she knows exactly what women are subjected to in Gilead—she could have told the outside world all about it long before Nick ever brought the letters to Canada. I get that both Luke and Moira are suffering from survivor's guilt, but for them to just wallow in it while June fights her ass off is suddenly making zero sense to me. And they know that's what she's doing! I keep thinking about when Hannah asked, "Why didn't you try harder to find me?" and wondering what question June will ask of Luke. If he can't truthfully say, "I did everything I possibly could to get you and Hannah out of there," then what kind of partner is/was he, really? 

[marinw]

7 hours ago, Veronimo said:

I get that both Luke and Moira are suffering from survivor's guilt, but for them to just wallow in it while June fights her ass off is suddenly making zero sense to me. And they know that's what she's doing! 

I know! Moira was so brave and badass during her escape from Gilead. Now she seems much more passive. As for Luke, I did love it when he cornered Fred and simply stated “You raped my wife.” To be fair, Luke and Moira want to help liberate Gilead, but don't know how and feel overwhelmed and helpless. I’m not sure I wouldn’t react the same way if I were in their position.

I’m hoping Emily can inspire her American expates to action.

[Veronimo]

3 hours ago, marinw said:

I know! Moira was so brave and badass during her escape from Gilead. Now she seems much more passive. As for Luke, I did love it when he cornered Fred and simply stated “You raped my wife.” To be fair, Luke and Moira want to help liberate Gilead, but don't know how and feel overwhelmed and helpless. I’m not sure I wouldn’t react the same way if I were in their position.

I’m hoping Emily can inspire her American expates to action.

Just remembered the traumatized Guardian who Moira helped at the refugee center—he would know a ton of stuff, too (as would many of the escapees). Maybe next season they'll get a Little America band together and storm a weak section of the border...

[Umbelina]

5 hours ago, marinw said:

I know! Moira was so brave and badass during her escape from Gilead. Now she seems much more passive. As for Luke, I did love it when he cornered Fred and simply stated “You raped my wife.” To be fair, Luke and Moira want to help liberate Gilead, but don't know how and feel overwhelmed and helpless. I’m not sure I wouldn’t react the same way if I were in their position.

I’m hoping Emily can inspire her American expates to action.

 

1 hour ago, Veronimo said:

Just remembered the traumatized Guardian who Moira helped at the refugee center—he would know a ton of stuff, too (as would many of the escapees). Maybe next season they'll get a Little America band together and storm a weak section of the border...

I  honestly don't see how the writers can delay this, or delay bringing world reactions to this next season.  Canada is their way to do that, and they have, in my opinion, failed or not bothered because of all the rave reviews and Emmy's last season.  They want to DRAG this story out as long as possible, and creating "the rest of the story" (the story not told in detail in the book) was more work than they wanted to take on.

Instead, they relied on outstanding acting to see them through. 

Still the critics have begun to complain, the viewers are complaining.  It's a "get this show on the road" vibe, and I'm hoping it lights a fire under their asses for next season.  (See the "hate" thread and the media thread for much more about this issue.)

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/12/2018 at 3:15 AM, Callaphera said:

I won't bother repeating what y'all have said so eloquently already (because fuck yes to the ridiculousness of the note on the wall and the slow-mo walk to the van and everything else), but I will say this:

Congratulations, guys. I'm raising my glass for all of us that sat through all of these tedious reset episodes. We made it through 3839860982 close-ups of June's pores. We made it through the "Will she or won't she?" Serena rebellion storyline. We made it through all the stupid decisions that the characters made. As June puts it so well at the end of every episode "Fuck 'em." We did it. 

Also, I totally expect Aunt Lydia to be standing there without a scratch on her in Season Three, Episode One and she'll have some lame Nick-like story. "There was an issue. We took care of it. Pay no attention to the steak knife in my back."

Oh my god.  Until I read your post I COMPLETELY forgot that Nick was shot and killed (!?!?!?! LOL) one episode and then magically re-appeared the next.

I admit I enjoy the show and don't find it annoying, and am always looking forward to more content, yet I find everyone's posts and grievances hilarious and totally understandable!

I think it helps that I haven't read the book so I am blissfully ignorant.

Edited July 30, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 7/14/2018 at 11:24 PM, Lemons said:

 Serena willingly gives up her baby, the only thing that gives her a reason to live?

This wasn't believable to me, either, not in a million years.  The only plausible explanation is she was too tramautized and hopped up on painkillers?  Is that what they were trying to sell?

[Ms Blue Jay]

I can't believe it's only been 2 seasons.  Right now it feels like it's been 4.  LOL

[RachelKM]

Ugh... I think I'm out.  I know it was coming from the moment June pulled the picture of Hannah out.  Once Emily was there, it was sealed.  So fucking annoying.  Now EVERYONE she loves is in Canada except for Hannah, to whom she has no access and no leverage to gain access,  and Nick who 1) if he isn't on a wall after helping her escape will be once Fred figures a way to do it and 2) is also inaccessible to her while he lives.  And June turns around heads into the abyss. 

I get it.  They want a third season.  But June would have a far better chance of getting her daughter with the help of Miora and Luke from Canada than on her own in Gilead where she is not only without resources but also a fugitive who will be sent to the colonies upon capture.  No.  Just, no.

[echo.Echo.ECHO]

Wow. Not sure what I expected but it wasn't that.

I've been noticing the pairs and groups of handmaids getting more chatty and less careful in general over the past few episodes, I think even before the naming-bonding episode. I guess that helps counter the complaints about unintelligible whispered conversations, but ... yeah, there's no way they'll be able to maintain this show for even three years, much less ten, if they don't get their world building straight. Those girls are four or five years into this, so it's odd to me that they're all of a sudden getting braver as a group. What's happening that's making them flaunt some of the rules now?

I hope they bring Cdr Lawrence back next season simply because I heart Josh Lyman and Bradley Whitford. Doesn't hurt that he is an interesting character, either.

I don't understand why Fred wants to keep June around. Is he really that enamored? Is it simply fascination with and lust after a woman who fights back? Is it solely a power play? Is it more about putting and keeping Serena in her place? Maybe it's all of the above.

And omg, June must hide kidnapper bait in that cloak. How many times d'ya think the other commanders will let Waterford drink from the kidnapping well? Heck, that one inspector guy didn't believe it the first time. Oh, but he's dead now, so....

I think because everything is so backward in Gilead, I'm always surprised at the modern-sounding names they give the babies. Angela? Nicole? I expected more Agneses and Charlottes or biblical names, TBH. Trying to remember ... have we heard any other child names?

I expect Emily to pull out a bottle of breast milk from Holly Nichole's swaddling any minute now.

Like someone above, I wonder if that fire was set deliberately or if the Marthas just took advantage of it. Or both. Maybe it was a distraction engineered by Cdr L for Emily, and the Marthas were able to use it for June, too. I'm not sure Cdr L expected another handmaid at the rendezvous.

I kind of can't wait to see Rita and June next season. I wonder if Rita will be livid or understanding?

And Nick. What repercussions will he face?

Also, where was Margaret Atwood these last few episodes? I feel like she would have (should have?) been able to help the writers and showrunner think through some of these things so many of us are frustrated with. Is she still consulting on the show?

[pasdetrois]

June moves heaven and earth to protect her new baby, through multiple episodes, complete with not one but two June-gives-birth scenes, during which we are treated to the trope of the screeching through delivery...and then June hands her baby off and walks away.

What a crock of shit.

And I remember now what I hated about season 1. The obsession with endless closeups of Elisabeth Moss' big goggle eyed face, over and over again. What a bore. Give us something different to tell the story, and move the story along faster.

[SoWindsor]

Meh — wasn’t feeling this episode at all. It’s veered into extreme disbelief to prolong the show and that’s bad storytelling.

No way would Serena just let June take the baby!!! She just wouldn’t based on everything we’ve learned about her character.

It’s also insane that June would not leave. No way and makes zero sense. Her baby needs milk and Emily can’t give her that. Also she could leave and reunite with Luke and fight Gilead from Canada to get Hannah back. We still have Janine and other characters in Gilead to check back in.

I might be done with this show because they’ve made plot decisions that goes against the integrity of the characters. 

Edited August 25, 2018 by SoWindsor

[rejnel]

Miscellaneous end-of-season thoughts:

I hope critics or the show itself take up its notions of biology and motherhood at some point. Surely not ALL handmaids want to keep their rapists' babies? And the way those Marthas risked their lives to get a mother-child team out of the country, it all seemed rooted in a sense that the biological relationship is sacred. Otherwise, why not just smuggle the baby out to safety rather than dragging an adult woman dressed in red and white through the dark countryside (how many times did I yell "taking off your damn white hat?") I suppose, yes, baby calmer in arms of its breastfeeding mama, but there's something offensive to me about how the show (not Gilead, obviously) assumes the biological relationship is everything.

I like that Eden proved a catalyst for a lot of action, just not in ways we all expected. And although steeped in the Gilead crazy, at bottom she was just a teenager with romantic fantasies about love and family. Of course the first person who was nice to her would turn her head in a big way. (Glad that Isaac at least didn't betray her.) (And surprising to realize how young HE was, too, when you finally got a good look at him in the light of day.) I hate her father about as much as I hated anyone on this show!

Loved the Martha underground railroad--just beautiful to see. Do you think something specific triggered them to do it for June at this specific time, or was it just opportunistic with the fire (if the fire was indeed just luck, which I don't believe is the case)? Certainly, very lucky for Holly that the escape happened right after Serena's eyes were opened one more time and in a big way.

Please give me lots more of Colonel Lawrence next season. He's a loose cannon, which is just what this show needs!

While I'm wishing: big Rita backstory, please. Do we even know what she used to do?

And we must have Aunt Lydia for as long as the show runs. GREAT character, thanks to both the writing and Ann Dowd's brilliance. Not to mention that we must see Lydia's backstory.

I think the story would be better served from here on out with minimal Fred Waterford. Well drawn and well performed to this point, but I'd like to see the show move out of his little kingdom. He can come back and be vindictive now and then, but I don't think we need to see a lot more of him.

Speaking of Fred, some of the creepiest moments for me were when he beamed at June and expected to be thanked (or blown) for his swagger and/or generosity. The trips through Jezebel's, and then the "I'll arrange it so you can stay, we can try for a boy, wouldn't that be fun?" moment. Besides being inherently creepy, they took me right back to actual moments when I was dating. There are many, many guys who trade in that kind of "look what I can do for you! don't you admire me?" currency.

Count me in with everyone who hates June's final decision in the season finale. So many good arguments already stated above for why it makes no human or narrative sense for June to stay. And frankly, I'd love the writers to make a big leap and have to tell whole different kind of stories next year. I think they've done a great job mixing it up within the small world we've been able to see, but now they've kind of promised more of the same. 

Shocked how much I like Alexis Bledel in this show! Other MVPs: Yvonne Strahovski, of course; Max Minghella; Samira Wiley.

Edited September 3, 2018 by rejnel

[Tippi Blevins]

I can't believe June kept that baby's name as Nichole. What if she makes it to Canada and Luke gives her his last name? Then she'll be Nichole Bankole. Wtf.

[ForeverAlone]

I knew going into this finale that it was considered polarizing by many in the audience, and I completely understand why, since I had the same reaction. If season three isn't focused on the resistance and is just more of the same, I may have to stop watching this series entirely. I can only watch so much repetitive torture and rape before my brain shuts down. I am with those who want to see more world building and macro level Gilead. I completely understand what life is like on the micro level, but I want to see more of the resistance, the politics, the strategy and the like. Because of the claustrophobic point of view, we only have a minimal understanding of the larger Gilead outside of this one district.

From a story perspective, I am relieved to see Emily get a break for freedom, but I would have loved to have seen a deeper understanding of the Lawrence household (I can only hope we get that next season, because I find him the most fascinating male character on the show). There is something very off about him, and I want to know more. We know he is one of the key architects of Gilead, but he definitely had a change of heart at some point. I would like to see that he is working from the inside to weaken it, but we don't know that. We do know he is willing to smuggle out of a rebellious handmaid who might have murdered an Aunt (or at least grievously injured her), so he seems to pretty over Gilead's BS rules. Hell, I don't even think he is religious in any way. I can see him as the Gilead version of Oppenheimer in the sense that he helped create this terrible world (for whatever reason, but I don't think it was because he was a true believer in God- or if he was, he has completely lost that), and now rues the day he did so. While I am glad Emily will make it to Canada and be free, I don't understand why she would attack Lydia at that point. I mean, I completely understand her hatred of Lydia, but as far as handmaiden's situations goes, she had it fairly easy, so I don't necessarily think she would snap just then. I know she is rebellious, but she is usually smarter than this. It seems like it was a plot device to get her freedom, but I think it would have been more fascinating for her to weaken the system from within. Of course who knows what the writers have in store for her next season (assuming she makes an appearance), but I would have liked to see a deepening of the story we had for her in the last two episodes.

On a motherly level, I understand why June doesn't want to abandon Hannah, but I also think it is a mistake not to get freedom, get her daughter situated and then link up with some resistance from within to get her back (because the only way she is likely to get her back is if Gilead falls or if she attacks the Mackenzies and forcibly takes Hannah back- rather hard to do in this oppressive society). Again, this goes back to this season needing to progress to a wider tale of resistance, because mainly focusing on the plight of the handmaidens just doesn't make sense with the storytelling choices they have made so far. 

I find a lot to detest about Serena (mainly how she was perfectly happy to help build Gilead as long as she didn't face the consequences of it), but I would love to see all the Wives rise up, kill their oppressive husbands, and burn Gilead to the ground. Because short of an external military invasion, that is the only way this nightmare hellscape will end. At this point, Serena has no f's to give. She is married to a weak willed man, who allowed his wife to get her finger chopped off. She has no power, no ability to work or have an outlet, no freedom, no love, no sex, and now no baby (her last hope for any sort of escape from this). At this point, Fred's standing has to be diminished, and she is trapped. Serena doesn't seem like the type who will completely knuckle under, so I can only hope she shows some level of resistance next season. 

Edited November 15, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[Umbelina]

I agree with most of your post, but I don't think I'd ever really get over having my clitoris cut off, so I'm with Emily on that.

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

On 11/14/2018 at 5:13 PM, Umbelina said:

I agree with most of your post, but I don't think I'd ever really get over having my clitoris cut off, so I'm with Emily on that.

And have the perpetuator throw it in my face as she calls her less than. It would be inhuman to not snap and SAB at that point. 

Wasting time on the Waterfords instead of exploring the Lawrence household was one of the many missteps the show made in S2. 

[ReganX]

On 22 August 2018 at 10:52 PM, echo.Echo.ECHO said:

Those girls are four or five years into this, so it's odd to me that they're all of a sudden getting braver as a group. What's happening that's making them flaunt some of the rules now?

 

Late to the table but this part makes sense to me.

Aunt Lydia and the authorities tipped their hand in June with the fake hanging. Yes, they tortured the Handmaids but they also proved that there was a line that they weren't willing to cross, namely that they weren't prepared to go so far as to kill them all.

After the bombing, the shortage of Handmaids led them to recall the ones sent to the Colonies, the ultimate sanction for a Handmaid. Even Emily, who publicly killed a Guardian, and Janine, convicted of the worst crime in Gilead, were reinstated.

More than thirty Handmaids died in the bombing, and it didn't look like they rounded up more than half a dozen or so from the Colonies, so they may no longer have enough to go around among the Commanders. They can't afford to lose more.

They could punish low level disobedience like exchanging names and chatting with beatings and mutilation, but that could end up encouraging more serious offences, if the Handmaids conclude that they might as well be hanged for sheep as for lamb. Death and the Colonies may be off the table altogether, certainly for collective offences. 

If the Handmaids are getting braver, it's because they know that Gilead needs them, and that this is their best form of protection.

[BosomBuddy]

On 7/31/2018 at 2:46 AM, RachelKM said:

Ugh... I think I'm out.  I know it was coming from the moment June pulled the picture of Hannah out.  Once Emily was there, it was sealed.  So fucking annoying.  Now EVERYONE she loves is in Canada except for Hannah, to whom she has no access and no leverage to gain access,  and Nick who 1) if he isn't on a wall after helping her escape will be once Fred figures a way to do it and 2) is also inaccessible to her while he lives.  And June turns around heads into the abyss. 

I get it.  They want a third season.  But June would have a far better chance of getting her daughter with the help of Miora and Luke from Canada than on her own in Gilead where she is not only without resources but also a fugitive who will be sent to the colonies upon capture.  No.  Just, no.

Agreed! I’m annoyed that June decided not to take her best chance at escaping Gilead. She’d have a better chance at freeing Hannah from outside, whereas by staying she has a better chance being killed. 

[ReganX]

On 16 December 2018 at 2:42 PM, BosomBuddy said:

Agreed! I’m annoyed that June decided not to take her best chance at escaping Gilead. She’d have a better chance at freeing Hannah from outside, whereas by staying she has a better chance being killed. 

I have to disagree with that. I'd say that she has little to no chance of being able to trace Hannah from outside Gilead.

All she knows is that she's been adopted by a couple of sufficiently high status that they have a Martha and Guardian assigned to the household, and that she has been renamed Agnes. She has no idea where she lives. Short of a member of the household also fleeing and providing the information, she won't find out more than she already knows. Even if she could, I doubt that the Canadian government, or that of the United States in exile, will be willing or able to spirit Hannah out of Gilead.

Staying in Gilead allows the possibility for June to locate Hannah through a few ways. Fred and Serena both know where she is, and with whom she is living. There is a slim chance that Serena would tell June willingly, or that Fred could be blackmailed into doing so. Rita is part of an underground network of Marthas who could know where Hannah is, or even be able to have her carried away from her new home. Records of some description are kept, given that Serena was able to find out about the world class doctor who ended up as a Martha. If June can't gain access for herself, Commander Lawrence may be able to do so.

[txhorns79]

Quote

I don’t get though, how June reconciles the fact she loves Nick with the husband she left behind?  Mind you, I think what’s-his-name is totally uncharismatic and as boring as a rock but still...  He was supposed to be the great love of her life, the guy she broke up a marriage to snare.  All that seems to have fallen by the wayside.

I would just say love isn't a zero sum game.  She can love both without it being meant as a slight against the other person.  Also, obviously June is in a pretty extreme circumstance where she'll likely take what she can get in terms of affection.

I'll also say that I loved the use of Walking on Broken Glass in the episode.  Way to make a fun, upbeat song into something terrifying, show!     

Edited January 2, 2019 by txhorns79

[scrb]

On 7/10/2018 at 10:29 PM, Olive said:

I thought it was a great finale.  Last week when Commander Lawrence spoke of losing a body part and a child was excellent foreshadowing.

I seriously doubt she is returning to the Waterford home.

Well if they want to extend the show for say 5 seasons, it’s going to have to feature June in Gilead.

If she gets away, this Handmaid’s Tale is over.  Sure maybe she joins in some movement to defeat Gilead or run covert operations to free people including Hannah but Canada won’t support that, as it gives Gilead a reason to wage war on Canada.  If as guests of Canada, they run incursions into Gilead, then Gilead will make incursions across the border into Canada.

So not only is June going to stay, they’ll somehow keep Waterfords in the story unless they want t9 recast and replace some major roles in the show.  They could say Fred is obsessed with June, was will8ng to bend the rules to have more Ceremonies with her, using his clout.

She hit him back and told him to go fuck himself but he still wants her and dangled more time with Hannah.  That is probably why she figured she could stay.

But who knows what the fallout will be.  Rita and Nick could both hang — not sure why they haven’t suspected Nick all along.

[scrb]

On 8/24/2018 at 7:24 PM, SoWindsor said:

Meh — wasn’t feeling this episode at all. It’s veered into extreme disbelief to prolong the show and that’s bad storytelling.

No way would Serena just let June take the baby!!! She just wouldn’t based on everything we’ve learned about her character.

It’s also insane that June would not leave. No way and makes zero sense. Her baby needs milk and Emily can’t give her that. Also she could leave and reunite with Luke and fight Gilead from Canada to get Hannah back. We still have Janine and other characters in Gilead to check back in.

I might be done with this show because they’ve made plot decisions that goes against the integrity of the characters. 

As I was catching up, I did anticipate Serena letting her go.  Yes she gave up a lot for the ability to become a mother, including the opportunity to defect while in Canada.

But she knows Gilead was nothing like she had hoped and dreamed of.  She did realize that no woman was safe, either Eden nor even herself.  She knew what June was saying was true, she knew she couldn’t protect Nicole from Edens fate.

[scrb]

On 7/14/2018 at 12:59 PM, Clanstarling said:

Beat me to it. Didn't grow up there, but my family is from the deep south, and that contrary nature abides wherever they are. And it's rubbed off just a bit. 😉

I doubt evangelicals would be fans of this show.

In fact they probably view it as Hollywood or coastal elites unfairly depicting people of faith.

[scrb]

On 7/12/2018 at 11:24 AM, Umbelina said:

I honestly don't care about Lydia's backstory, and frankly, I'm sick of flashbacks. 

The only flashback I really want to see is something clarifying that the murder of the president and congress, all leaders really, was blamed on Islamic Terrorists, and that's how they were able to suspend the press and our other freedoms guaranteed by the constitution.  I want it clear that people in the USA willingly allowed that, because "Yikes!  Terrorism!  Not Christians!  Not white!  Do whatever it takes to protect us!"  I think that message was lost in the earlier flashbacks, and it needs to be clear.

The Lydias and Serenas of this world, both Gilead, and the real world?  Are honestly nothing special, they are common and infuriating.  I don't CARE how they got that way, what I do care about is seeing them disillusioned with what they have wrought, possibly coming to terms with the horrors they've propelled and participated in.

I suspect how Gilead came to be, how the Sons of Jacob conquered a nuclear superpower is not something that the creators of the show explicitly outlined in any depth or detail.

Something, something, terrorist attacks, something, something, Gilead!  Red Center!  Handmaids!  Colonies!

Nor will they fully draw out this history.  The show is suppose to be propelled by the horrific nature of life in Gilead, as expressed by the actors reactions to them.

Thats not to say there isn’t some overarching plot which in the end will make sense, but a lot of it is about wowing the audience by making it a showcase for actors.

[Pearlinbloom]

Just binged the whole season thanks to my local library. Whoa! 

- Really hoping we get some fresh backstories in S3. For Lydia, Rita, and Commander Lawrence especially. Perhaps while Lydia recovers she reflects back on her sister and nephew? And after seeing Rita & the Martha network I’m more than 100% certain her son fought against Gilead (before I thought it was possible he found his mother a Martha position to keep her safe if he was pro-Gilead). And Lawrence is just too interestingly different from the other commanders to not explore. 

- If Emily and Nicole make it to Canada, is she going to try to pass her off as her own? Will she try to track down June’s husband? June tucking that picture of Hannah in to the blanket made me wonder if Emily finds Luke, asks if he wants to care for June’s child, he says “no” but then the picture of Hannah falls out & he decides to raise Nicole even if she’s not his (and presumably Waterford’s in his mind) because she IS his wife’s daughter and his own daughters sister. 

- Loved Nick standing up to Waterford finally! Not sure how that will work out for him but so satisfying! 

-Loved how EVERYONE in the Waterford house, except Fred himself, was ultimately complicit in the escape. I really thought Serena would take the baby and call for a guardian but perhaps her letting her go means some actual character growth? 

- Frustrated by June’s decision to stay. I get that she wants to save Hannah from Gilead. I get that narrative-wise it wouldn’t be a “handmaids tale” if it’s not following a handmaid, but! How can the Gilead powers that be think that June is still worth keeping as a handmaid with all of the unusual circumstances surrounding her? The “kidnapping” that more than a few Commanders have to suspect was an escape. The drive that went wrong & led to her giving birth alone ? Her refusal to stone Janine? Now the baby has vanished and there is no way they won’t suspect her. 

It just strains belief that season 3 will keep the same status quo of June (and Nick & Rita) all in the Waterford household. I’d love for all of them to get reassigned to Commander Lawrence & lead the resistance from there... but that would be too pleasant for this show. 

[Toya8521]

I literally just finished this episode about 10 minutes ago and immediately looked for a forum. As soon as Emily showed up,  I started yelling,"you bet not stay" and calling June all types of dumb bitches. Im starting to believe that she truly doesn't want to leave that place. She would rather risk death than freedom🤷‍♀️ like wtf. She's always taking her precious time when ever there's a chance for her to escape. I really want her to succeed but I'm starting to lose all faith.

[Ashforth]

I watched this episode again in preparation for the new season and it was better than I remembered it. 

[smartymarty]

Read through most of the comments. I think if I'd watched when this originally came out, one episode and season at a time, I too would be done after this episode. But I'm streaming, so a day after finishing season two I'm onto season three to see if anything people here wanted to happen will happen (but of course I won't comment on that).

One little thing that bugged me in E13 that I didn't see anyone mention: Josh puts Emily in his car, and we watch her terror at not knowing where she is going, what will happen. Why didn't Josh tell her??? He was driving! How about a "Don't worry, I'm going to get you out of here."

And was there really an escape planned for Emily just hours after she stabbed Lydia? Coincidentally when June was also escaping? Which Handmaid was this escape really planned for, and how did the others (Josh or the Marthas) find out?

[Enero]

On 7/11/2018 at 9:58 AM, Trillian said:

This episode made me mad. Everyone acted out of character, with the exception  Marthas suddenly banding together to save one Handmaid and her baby?  Why this Handmaid?  Why not Janine? 

I’m very late to this discussion as I just picked this show back up a couple of weeks ago after not watching for several years. 

But this! Why not Janine? Why not any one of the many handmaidens who are being raped and abused on a daily basis? Why would so many Martha’s risk it all for one handmaiden? It would’ve made more sense if they were smuggling out several handmaidens rather than just one. June staying behind seemed like pure plot. I understand her wanting to save Hannah but so many people risking their lives to save hers should’ve been enough to cross into Canada. She could’ve figured out a plan to save Hannah, whom by the way, she still has no idea where she’s located. 

I will never feel sorry for Serena or believe her transition but I had to ask when she was taken for punishment due to making that request to the commanders, what did she expect? Her husband beat her for committing a sin no one knew about. Did she really think it was going to go well? Her publically  sinning for all, specifically the commanders and their wives, to see? Her actions made absolutely no sense,  like many character’s action not just in this episode but the many prior.

I think it’s a wrap for me for this show  It started off as such an interesting series but seems to have lost its way this season.

 

[ReganX]

22 hours ago, Enero said:

I will never feel sorry for Serena or believe her transition but I had to ask when she was taken for punishment due to making that request to the commanders, what did she expect? Her husband beat her for committing a sin no one knew about. Did she really think it was going to go well? Her publically  sinning for all, specifically the commanders and their wives, to see? Her actions made absolutely no sense,  like many character’s action not just in this episode but the many prior.

I suspect that, on some level, Serena hadn't truly accepted just how powerless a position she had helped to put herself in. She bullied the women assigned to her household, and told herself that she had power because she wanted to believe she did.

I also think that, subconsciously, Serena may have been trying to prove to herself that there was good in Gilead.

She defended her decision to fake Fred's order to bring in a Martha to treat baby Angela because she considered that there was no greater responsibility than to protect a child. Fred beat her for it, but it wouldn't surprise me if Serena tried to convince herself that he was sorry, and that it would never happen again.

She may have thought that the Commanders would see that she was right to want to ensure that all children in Gilead could read the Bible. If Aunts can have a special dispensation to read and write in order to carry out their duties, why not Wives and Daughters, who will be responsible for raising and guiding future generations?

She overestimated the Commanders' care for the future of the female children of Gilead.

She overestimated her own power and influence.

She underestimated the Commanders' willingness to punish a Wife.

She underestimated Fred's pride. Even if some of the Commanders were considering letting Serena off with a warning, I'd say that Fred would have wanted her to lose a finger rather than allow his wife to be seen to get away with open defiance.

Edited May 21, 2021 by ReganX