S03.E08: It Reaches Out

[raven]

Quote

An old friend taunts Holden with the answers he seeks; Naomi struggles to fit in; a mysterious low-level tech aboard the Thomas Prince enacts a terrifying plan.

[WildPlum]

Interesting title - the protomolecule's interactions with humans thus far prove simply that humans are jerks (actually worse than that). Granted it isn't a human intelligence, but it is clearly intelligent and at this point it should be thinking "wow, humans suck." With the arrival of "the Investigator" though, it seems to be trying to communicate, when it should be trying to get the heck out of our solar system.

[raven]

Well, that kicked all kinds of ass.

[marinw]

Wow.

And I thought the was going to be a slow episode.

If I didn’t know better, I would have labeled the Ring a black hole. Being in the Event Horizon forever would literally suck.

Steven Strait aka Space John Snow is one of the few actors on the show I’m indifferent to. But I really felt his exhaustion and confusion in this episode.

Nice callback to 2001 with Creepy Camera Guy messing with the Roci I was waiting for someone to start singing “Daisy”.

Edited May 31, 2018 by marinw

[nekilarose]

I love how they're showing the protomolecule  "reaching out" and trying to communicate. Amos's face when talking to Holden, though! I loved how he was all "you crazy as hell, but I'm with you." 

I did like how Naomi knew it wasn't Holden and tried to communicate that with Drummer, and she listened...for a minute. And hello people, you stole (salvaged) a Mormon ship and are re-purposing it to be a war ship. It's not set up to handle all that fire power yet. Gonna count it as a sneak win for the Mormons ;-) 

I've said it before, but man, I love the visuals on this show. How they showed a close up of the ring, and the missile being caught with the Roci in the "slow zone", was awesome. Can't wait till next week!

[Guest]

31 minutes ago, raven said:

Well, that kicked all kinds of ass.

No kidding.  My first coherent thought on this episode was.  Wow, SyFy still run by idiots twenty years later.  They knew they had this episode and this set up for the balance of the season and next season and cancelled it.  Thank goodness Amazon rescued the show.

25 minutes ago, marinw said:

Nice callback to 2001 with Creepy Camera Guy messing with the Roci I was waiting for someone to start singing “Daisy”.

Camera guy was behind the fake transmission, right? Convenient timing for the 'investigator'.

On ‎5‎/‎26‎/‎2018 at 2:31 PM, WildPlum said:

Interesting title - the protomolecule's interactions with humans thus far prove simply that humans are jerks (actually worse than that). Granted it isn't a human intelligence, but it is clearly intelligent and at this point it should be thinking "wow, humans suck." With the arrival of "the Investigator" though, it seems to be trying to communicate, when it should be trying to get the heck out of our solar system.

Its interesting how fast Miller being the representative of the protomolecule had me back to seeing it as less than a boogey man virus that could wipe out humanity, hastened by the human war factions being morons hastening their own demise.  All of the sudden, the blue goo on the Roci isn't a unseen threat, its allowing Miller to help them save themselves.  I'm thinking that they keep rebooting the investigator who is more Miller and more able to reach out to the Roci.

I appear to be really malleable because if anyone shoots at the Roci, I immediately change sides to whoever the Roci decides to trust at any given moment.

[thuganomics85]

Finally got to watch this show live for once, and it certainly ended up being a big one!

It certainly seems like Melba's goal it to turn everyone against Holden, by making him look like he was responsible for a terrorist attack.  And I'm guessing the cameraman currently on the Roci is on it too.  Unsure about Monica/reporter, since she really seems like she's just here for the story.  That said, Melba clearly seemed torn up over killing the guy from last week, so it doesn't look like she's some kind of full-blown sociopathy/psychopath, but just really has it out for Holden.  But I wonder if Anna is going to remember their awkward conversation from earlier.

Whelp, even though it didn't happen, I have to imagine that Drummer and Naomi are going to be having some friction with the whole "Getting ready to blow up the ship with your boyfriend" command.  Oh, Drummer!  I love her and I can kind of see why she logically believed she was doing the right thing, but I fear that she is heading for a fall.  It just feels like Ashford is getting into her head and making her doubt her gut and decision-making.  I still don't trust him.

Heh, Amos' whole "I'm not sure I can help, but I won't judge" remark pretty much fits him to a tee.  I loved that he was all freaked out over Holden's meltdown, but still trusted him at the end.  He really has become one of the best characters on this show.

While I've been enjoying where this show has gone post-Miller, I'm really enjoying seeing Thomas Jane again.  I still wonder what's going on with old Proto-Miller here.

Poor Alex!  It is clear that he is (or was) excited with all of the documentary stuff, but Monica clearly has no interest in his story!

No Chrisjen or Bobbie this time, but hopefully they'll factor back in soon.

While I'm not usually all "Profanity makes things better", I do hope the move to Amazon will make them a little more loser going forward, because Holden's "Forget you!  Forget you!" really didn't sound natural, and I'm guessing was suppose to be "Fuck you!" instead.

[WatchrTina]

1 hour ago, marinw said:

Steven Strait aka Space John Snow

LOL.  That is perfect.  And quite apt. That video was as potentially deadly as multiple stab wounds and it came from someone on his own ship.  Seriously, Holden canNOT catch a break.  He lets two outsiders on his ship and one of them turns out to be a saboteur determined to ruin his reputation (and that of the OPA).  I did love that Naomi didn't believe it for a second.  Amos and Alex . . . well, the Captain has been a bit "off" lately so they're thinking maybe . . . but no, they come around.

As for that bit at the end with time frozen all around them when they wake up -- that was cool but I've seen it before.  I'm wracking my brain to recall where I've seen this scenario played out.  There was definitely a Twilight Zone episode about it (dude freezes time just to read books but then he breaks his glasses (can't read without them) and he can't restart time either.)  There was a StarTrek episode about something in the water speeding up certain members of the crew so much that the non-affected members of the crew seemed frozen in time.  But I think I'm missing the most obvious example . . . it's on the tip of my brain.

So . . . can the Proto-molecule foresee the future?  It sure seems to have sent Proto-Miller to Holden to give him a hint of how to cope with a dangerous situation that has not yet occurred.  Or did the Proto-molecules see creepy blind dude mucking with the ship and figure out what he was up to because it is super smart?  I recall that there was some blue goo left on the Roci after they burned up that one proto-monster in their drive plume.  It's never been referenced since but I assume it's still there, lurking in between the outer and inner hulls and that it is the reason "Miller" can manifest on the Roci.

Who is creepy blind dude working for?  I assume it is someone who wants to discredit the OPA and Holden. To me that suggests that someone on Earth is behind it but Nguyen is dead, Mao & Errinwright are behind bars, and president Bobble-head is retired.  Who is left to be the earth-villain?  For that matter, who is Melba working for?  Are both saboteurs working for the same shit-stirrer? So. Many. Questions.

Edited May 31, 2018 by WatchrTina

[Emily Thrace]

Well that was awesome. The Roci actually stayed out of trouble for a whole episode and three quarters. Between this show and Colony I have sworn so much Avarasala would be impressed.

I officially don't like Documentary Girl. Everything she says comes out sexualized like she is flirting with everyone. Its just not a good look on what is supposed to be a professional working woman. It seems like she is trying to sleep her way through the Roci crew and gain access to them that way. The actress was bad for doing that on Defiance too actually.

Melba's story so far is still one I've seen before (in fact Colony has used it, and turned it inside out and upside down) but I'm guessing she's not blowing up ships willingly. 

[kagakugasuki]

Wow. What an ep. Sooo who wants to start a war, i.e. the mastermind behind this terrorist act? For some reason I'm thinking Dawes.

[Guest]

18 minutes ago, WatchrTina said:

So . . . can the Proto-molecule foresee the future?  It sure seems to have sent Proto-Miller to Holden to give him a hint of how to cope with a dangerous situation that has not yet occurred.  Or did the Proto-molecules see creepy blind dude mucking with the ship and figure out what he was up to because it is super smart?  I recall that there was some blue goo left on the Roci after they burned up that one proto-monster in their drive plume.  It's never been referenced since but I assume it's still there, lurking in between the outer and inner hulls and that it is the reason "Miller" can manifest on the Roci.

They showed the goo again in this episode right under/before Miller told Holden to go into the ring.

 

25 minutes ago, thuganomics85 said:

Heh, Amos' whole "I'm not sure I can help, but I won't judge" remark pretty much fits him to a tee.  I loved that he was all freaked out over Holden's meltdown, but still trusted him at the end.  He really has become one of the best characters on this show.

Yeah, I liked it that a simple explanation made Amos go ahead and trust Holden when really it was not really an explanation that should have been all that reassuring.  It was hiding the crazy that was causing the concern.  Also liked that all it took for Alex to get on board was for Amos to confirm Holden's order.

[tennisgurl]

2 hours ago, Emily Thrace said:

It seems like she is trying to sleep her way through the Roci crew and gain access to them that way.

Well to be fair, it seems like her camera man is on that same wavelength :) 

That was so intense, even by this show standards? Thank God this show was saved, its just way too good to be cancelled now. It was awesome seeing Miller again (or, the molecules that are taking his form. Or something) and the interactions between the Rocci crew was great all around. And it looks amazing, as always. I especially loved the shots of the Rocci and the rocket behind it frozen by the gate, and the shot of Miller from Holden's perspective as he tries to impart his final message. It looked so cool. 

I dont know whats up with the hybrid girl. She doesn't seem to relish killing people...but she is still doing it, and risking a bloody war, apparently all to screw with Holden. What the hell did he do to her to justify all of this? And the Rocci was actually just minding their own business and staying out of trouble for once! And now they still end up dragged into this galactic bullshit!

"This probably looks weird, doesn't it?" Loved Amos's reaction to seeing Holden apparently screaming at an empty room, while looking increasingly twitchy and tired. And of course his reaction is "your clearly losing it, but whatever, I've got your back", and he even still listened to him at the end. They've certainly come along way since Amos was casually threatening to murder Holden and then asking him to pass the wrench. As long as he doesn't break the coffee machine again, of course.  

Poor Alex, the only one who actually wants to be in this movie, and the only one they dont care about. I would watch a doc about you, Alex! 

[marinw]

I like that Miller may or may not be Holden's hallucinating.

If Creepy Camera Guy is the saboteur, why did he keep coming on to Amos? To gain Amos’s trust and use his skills, or is he just into big taciturn guys? In any case, I do love the idea of a blind villain. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by marinw

[anamika]

Nice to see Miller back again!

Steven Strait has improved in his acting by leaps and bounds from season one. I am enjoying Holden now. I also love how far the Amos-Holden relationship has come from before CQB where Amos was ready to end Holden on Naomi's say so, to his support for Holden now.

Alex and Amos should have been more suspicious of the two strangers on board the Roci.

The cracks are starting to appear in Naomi's friendship with Drummer.

A really fun episode. This show just manages to impress and I am glad we will get another season.

Edited May 31, 2018 by anamika

[marinw]

In my mind The Rocinate has has now joined the The Serenity, the  Millennium Falcon, the Enterprise, and the Battlestar Galactica as an iconic space ship. The first two ships are different than the last three as smaller and can only travel within a single solar system

Spoiler

Proto molecule Stargate notwithstanding.

Edited June 2, 2018 by marinw

[CheetaraThunder]

1 hour ago, anamika said:

Nice to see Miller back again!

Steven Strait has improved in his acting by leaps and bounds from season one. I am enjoying Holden now. I also love how far the Amos-Holden relationship has come from before CQB where Amos was ready to end Holden on Naomi's say so, to his support for Holden now.

Alex and Amos should have been more suspicious of the two strangers on board the Roci.

The cracks are starting to appear in Naomi's friendship with Drummer.

A really fun episode. This show just manages to impress and I am glad we will get another season.

I definitely agree on all accounts, especially about Holden and Steven.

Steven has been on fire this season and Holden has won me over from season 1 to now. All he wanted was some damn coffee ☕️ 

Honestly, all of the main characters have been amazing. I love that each one has their own individual arc and that even if you may not be a big fan of Naomi/Holden, I do love that they give them stories that don’t revolve around one another.

The writers, and cast have been firing on all cylinders this season and really they need to submit something to the Emmy’s. Shit, it’s my 2nd favorite show right now, right behind Killing Eve.

I hate seeing the little cracks forming between Naomi and drummer, but I get it. Hate to see them break apart cause Cara Gee and Dominique Tripper have fantastic chemistry together.

[Clanstarling]

11 hours ago, marinw said:

If I didn’t know better, I would have labeled the Ring a black hole. Being in the Event Horizon forever would literally suck.

Steven Strait aka Space John Snow is one of the few actors on the show I’m indifferent to. But I really felt his exhaustion and confusion in this episode.

I thought of a black hole too. I don't know any better - so I haven't dismissed it yet. Love "Space John Snow"

10 hours ago, ParadoxLost said:

Its interesting how fast Miller being the representative of the protomolecule had me back to seeing it as less than a boogey man virus that could wipe out humanity, hastened by the human war factions being morons hastening their own demise.  All of the sudden, the blue goo on the Roci isn't a unseen threat, its allowing Miller to help them save themselves.  I'm thinking that they keep rebooting the investigator who is more Miller and more able to reach out to the Roci.

I appear to be really malleable because if anyone shoots at the Roci, I immediately change sides to whoever the Roci decides to trust at any given moment.

Same here. Miller seems to be its method of communication - its learning the language by using Miller's memories. It seemed to be moving a little past using his actual dialogue toward the end of the episode, but still using the examples (the rookie, enter a room slowly, etc.)

10 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

It certainly seems like Melba's goal it to turn everyone against Holden, by making him look like he was responsible for a terrorist attack.  And I'm guessing the cameraman currently on the Roci is on it too.  Unsure about Monica/reporter, since she really seems like she's just here for the story.  That said, Melba clearly seemed torn up over killing the guy from last week, so it doesn't look like she's some kind of full-blown sociopathy/psychopath, but just really has it out for Holden.  But I wonder if Anna is going to remember their awkward conversation from earlier.

Heh, Amos' whole "I'm not sure I can help, but I won't judge" remark pretty much fits him to a tee.  I loved that he was all freaked out over Holden's meltdown, but still trusted him at the end.  He really has become one of the best characters on this show.

I'm not sure Melba has any personal goals when it comes to Holden. Seems to me she's more a hired hand (or a forced hand). The guy on the Roci is clearly in on it, as the broadcast came from inside the Roci, and who else has all that footage of Holden that they can manipulate into a believable simulation?

10 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Who is creepy blind dude working for?  I assume it is someone who wants to discredit the OPA and Holden. To me that suggests that someone on Earth is behind it but Nguyen is dead, Mao & Errinwright are behind bars, and president Bobble-head is retired.  Who is left to be the earth-villain?  For that matter, who is Melba working for?  Are both saboteurs working for the same shit-stirrer? So. Many. Questions.

It could even be the OPA - to gain cred by blowing up Holden - whose bogus video claims he's working with them. "See, that fool doesn't represent us - we're just as upset as you."

7 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

Well to be fair, it seems like her camera man is on that same wavelength :)

As long as there are humans, sex will be used as a tool and a weapon. That was meant to come out light hearted, and then it didn't...sorry.

[WatchrTina]

13 hours ago, marinw said:

If Creepy Camera Guy is the saboteur, why did he keep coming on to Amos? To gain Amos’s trust and use his skills, or is he just into big taciturn guys?

He was in an area of the ship that is Amos' bailiwick so I think he pretended that he had gone there looking for Amos in order to throw Amos off the scent.  If Amos thought the cameraman was up to something nefarious and had been in that particular room for a reason, he might have started taking a look at the ship's key systems with a fine-toothed comb and found the substitute glass panel (it glowed with a different color light than the others -- did you notice?)

Edited May 31, 2018 by WatchrTina

[marinw]

25 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Love "Space John Snow"

That's not mine. Cher on The Churn Podcast cames up with that IIRC. But you are welcome.

[shrewd.buddha]

Interesting developments.. though it is annoying that there is a world changing event happening and there are still groups who only want war.
And has there ever been time when the governments of the world sent out religious leaders to help explain or investigate some phenomenon? They are really stretching the believability of  minister Anna's involvement. 

11 hours ago, marinw said:

Steven Strait aka Space John Snow is one of the few actors on the show I’m indifferent to.

Holden being at the center of every event is also getting a bit hard to believe. Even John Snow does not pop up everywhere in Game of Thrones. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by shrewd.buddha

[scottiB]

Watched this on the commute in. Am still cogitating, bit this ep is on par with BSG's "33" or ST:TNG's "Best of Both Worlds" - off the top of my head. Just fantastic, fantastic stuff. 

[MissLucas]

Geez, there's a reason I never watch this show before going to bed. Even knowing (more or less) what's going to happen you end up all juiced up on adrenaline ;)

The mixture of urgency (Holden and his supposed nervous breakdown - Melba's plot) and debate on various ships but mostly the Behemoth created perfect pacing.

Loved Amos asking Holden to not smash another coffee maker. And cynical Drummer who's not mincing words when it comes to the salvaging of the Nauvoo was also great.  I'm a bit surprised that Naomi came off as drinking Belter Kool-Aid again but I guess that's over now.

On a sidenote: was this the first time we learned Drummer's given name? I don't remember anyone ever calling her Camina before.

[tennisgurl]

I love this show so much, I've basically become Diogo to the shows Miller, especially when it was tragically killed by SyFy for awhile. Telling everyone in sight how awesome it is, and yelling a lot about how its the greatest thing around and everyone should acknowledge its awesome. 

I can imagine that somewhere, when OPA realized that their church turned gunship wasn't cutting it, the Mormans were smirking.  

[anamika]

Since, quite a few folks brought it up, it's Jon Snow, not John Snow  :)

I do agree though that Holden is rather similar to the GOT show!Jon Snow. He was single minded about pursuing the protomolecule like Jon/WW and he wants to do the right thing. I think that's one of the reasons that Amos is sticking by him. With Naomi shown to be fallible in his eyes, I think Amos sees Holden as the person who will do the right thing. He said as much in Caliban's War, thanking Holden for being a good man so that he does not have to worry about being on the right team.

'When I exceed my boundary conditions, that's when they kill me' - love this. 

Edited May 31, 2018 by anamika

[marinw]

Just now, anamika said:

Since, quite a few folks brought it up, it's Jon Snow, not John Snow  :)

I sit corrected.

15 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

the Mormans were smirking.

There must be Mormons on the Thomas Prince with the other religious people. I like that there was a Mega Church lady there. It seems like someone who would show up at such a gathering.

A Rabbi, A Priest and an Iman walk into a Protomolecule...

[MissLucas]

The show (and the books) share some similarities with GoT beyond Holden as an interstellar version of Jon Snow. The more striking similarity to me was definitely how long it took the various squabbling factions of humanity to take notice of weird sh** going on in the perimeter of their vision. I used to yell at GoT folks 'Will somebody pay attention to the ice zombies???' and here it was 'Will somebody pay attention to the blue goo?'  I think it's this narrative structure where GRRM rubbed off most on Corey (i.e. Abraham) - luckily it was not his writing speed ;)

[johntfs]

12 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

Who is creepy blind dude working for?  I assume it is someone who wants to discredit the OPA and Holden. To me that suggests that someone on Earth is behind it but Nguyen is dead, Mao & Errinwright are behind bars, and president Bobble-head is retired.  Who is left to be the earth-villain?  For that matter, who is Melba working for?  Are both saboteurs working for the same shit-stirrer? So. Many. Questions.

Why do you think there has to be some grand, evil mastermind behind them?  Villains are people, too.  People have friends, family, lovers, wives, etc.  Mao has at least two children, Julie, who is dead/one-with-the-protomolecule and one more.  Maybe Melba is her.  Or Nguyen's kid or girlfriend.  Maybe camera guy was Nguyen's boyfriend.  Hell, let's recall that once upon a time Holden blew up a ship from "Space Doctors Without Borders."  Figure that story came out and given the threat of the proto-molecule Holden was given a pass but maybe the doctors' various friends/lovers/spouses/children aren't as forgiving.

[marinw]

Naomi is making a career of being the engineer of commandeered ships. I don’t see her spending a long time on the Behemoth after this episode. Drummer does not look kindly on insubordination. I sense that Naomi is struggling to fit in. These Belters no longer feel like “her” people.

I hope we haven’t seen the last of Prax.

Spoiler

I  know from the books that Chrisjen and Bobbie show up again

Edited May 31, 2018 by marinw

[zobot81]

1) I think it's no coincidence that both Holden and Miller were exposed to lethal amounts of radiation together, at the same time, and both have that device thingy implanted in their arms to prevent cancer (although i'm sketchy on the details of how exactly the implant works...space medicine...)

2) Roci is in the Upside Down?

[Clanstarling]

2 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

He was in an area of the ship that is Amos' bailiwick so I think he pretended that he had gone there looking for Amos in order to throw Amos off the scent.  If Amos thought the cameraman was up to something nefarious and had been in that particular room for a reason, he might have started taking a look at the ship's key systems with a fine tooth cone and found the substitute glass panel (it glowed with a different color light than the others -- did you notice?)

Yes, I did notice. Thought it might be on a different frequency. Maybe an override frequency, as it turned out.

3 minutes ago, zobot81 said:

1) I think it's no coincidence that both Holden and Miller were exposed to lethal amounts of radiation together, at the same time, and both have that device thingy implanted in their arms to prevent cancer (although i'm sketchy on the details of how exactly the implant works...space medicine...)

2) Roci is in the Upside Down?

Nice call back. I had forgotten. 

[showme]

8 hours ago, johntfs said:

Maybe camera guy was Nguyen's boyfriend

Didn't know Nguyen was gay. Was he gay in the book?

Edited May 31, 2018 by showme

[showme]

What happened in the last a few frames of this episode?

So the Racinate slowed down and presumably the ship and everyone onboard survived the ring. What will happen to the missile? Will the ring destroy the missile? Will the missile catch up on Racinate and destroy the ship?

[wilnil]

4 minutes ago, showme said:

What happened in the last a few frames of this episode?

So the Racinate slowed down and presumably the ship and everyone onboard survived the ring. What will happen to the missile? Will the ring destroy the missile? Will the missile catch up on Racinate and destroy the ship?

Judging from the preview at the end, the answer to all the questions is "Tune in next week -- same bat-time, same bat-channel!"

[raven]

5 hours ago, showme said:

Didn't know Nguyen was gay. Was he gay in the book?

It's not stated either way; I think @johntfs is just theorizing.

8 minutes ago, showme said:

What will happen to the missile? Will the ring destroy the missile? Will the missile catch up on Racinate and destroy the ship?

Yes, everyone presumably survived; we see the Roci and the missile beyond the ring and slowed down with a shot of Holden passed out and with a bloody nose.  He's not splatted though and I think his hand may have twitched but I'm not sure. 

As for if the missile will catch up or not, I guess we have to wait and see.  If they were slowed down at the same rate, I guess the missile would catch up eventually, unless they are moving at the same rate and maybe not?  Someone with a more physics minded brain can weigh in on that!

I was impressed by Nadine Nicole, who plays Melba.   She is doing a good job of being conflicted and regretful while still being determined to murder and sabotage, heh.

This was a true test for Drummer and she was really caught between a rock and a hard place.  I don't trust Ashford but he was right, they had to respond somehow.  Not sure if shooting the Roci was the way to go; she was under a lot of pressure.  Her mantra should be "listen to Naomi" !

[Guest]

23 minutes ago, raven said:

As for if the missile will catch up or not, I guess we have to wait and see.  If they were slowed down at the same rate, I guess the missile would catch up eventually, unless they are moving at the same rate and maybe not?  Someone with a more physics minded brain can weigh in on that!

I'm assuming that the missile was accelerating and the Roci was decelerating as much as they could without the missile catching up before they got to the ring.  Between that and the mention that the ships are disappearing through the ring and not splatting on the barrier, like people, I'm assuming that the missile will go through and will eventually catch up through momentum.

I wonder if the other ships will try to follow with the trick of going slow.  But I guess they can't really know that the crew survived since they weren't broadcasting like the Belter kid. 

Also wonder if slowing down will no longer work now that the investigator has found someone to invite in and communicate with.

Curious if the 'investigator' can transmit the proto molecule considering that Miller shook his head when Holden was reaching out to touch him. 

[Netfoot]

22 minutes ago, ParadoxLost said:

I guess they can't really know that the crew survived since they weren't broadcasting like the Belter kid. 

I'm assuming that peeping around the side of the ring doesn't reveal the Roci floating just beyond.  If I'm right and she isn't there, then wherever she is may not be within routine radio range. So whether she was transmitting or not may be of no consequence.  I'm assuming that she'd have to travel back through the ring, or at least poke her comms array through, if she is to make contact with the blockade. Or they'd have to stick their snouts through from this side.  

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

I'm assuming that peeping around the side of the ring doesn't reveal the Roci floating just beyond.  If I'm right and she isn't there, then wherever she is may not be within routine radio range. So whether she was transmitting or not may be of no consequence.  I'm assuming that she'd have to travel back through the ring, or at least poke her comms array through, if she is to make contact with the blockade. Or they'd have to stick their snouts through from this side.  

I'm pretty sure at the beginning the crew of one of the ships was mocking the OPA for not sending unmanned probes through.  I got the impression that the probes were getting through but disappearing and not transmitting back/not detected. 

[tennisgurl]

11 hours ago, MissLucas said:

I used to yell at GoT folks 'Will somebody pay attention to the ice zombies???' and here it was 'Will somebody pay attention to the blue goo?' 

I do the same thing during both! I also think they both have a few other things structurally in common, like its big cast of characters of questionable morality, a lot of focus on culture and world building, and, the biggest thing, you see all different sides of a conflict, and its more complicated than Good vs Evil, and its sometimes hard to know who to root for. The last few episodes of last season reminded me a bit of the Battle of the Blackwater, where I was really confused as who to root for, because every side had good and bad people, and this whole thing was just a big mess of escalating political issues, and I really just wanted everyone to walk the hell away. No matter who wins, it sucks because you know the people who lost too, and it sucks that they all got dragged into this. They are both about the often fraught nature of society and government, and how that is affected by the issues and desires of individual people, for better or for worse. Just, it adds dragons and space ships to make things extra exciting. 

I've actually heard both shows compared to The Wire, being about a huge cast of complex characters from all around the city/kingdom/system, and how they all affect each other, even if they are completely different in personality or social class, or never even meet. People are morally ambiguous, and even well meaning people can screw up, and people are often affected by huge social or political changes that they dont even have anything to do with.

[Joimiaroxeu]

"We are going to win so many awards." If there's any justice, yes.

[Emily Thrace]

I hope next week we get Chrisjens take on the bombing. I don't think she will believe Holden did it either. Their relationship is one of more interesting ones one the show. They have spent very little time together but I think she's followed him long enough to know he wouldn't do this. Not too mention he saved her life. I mean she is a shark who would sell almost anyone out if she had to but she's smart enough to see there is more going on here.

At the very least I hope she removes Admiral Trigger Happy. Blowing Holden out of the sky without even asking if there were any more bombs was flat out stupid.  Shoot first and ask questions later is not the reaction you want from someone leading humanity's first contact with Alien life. Not to mention Holden is thier own citizen and is surely entitled to due process and a trial.

Edited June 1, 2018 by Emily Thrace

[Clanstarling]

13 hours ago, raven said:

This was a true test for Drummer and she was really caught between a rock and a hard place.  I don't trust Ashford but he was right, they had to respond somehow.  Not sure if shooting the Roci was the way to go; she was under a lot of pressure.  Her mantra should be "listen to Naomi" !

Tactically, given the new Belter Nation wants/needs to be recognized as a legitimate and equal player, and the information Drummer and Ashford actually had on hand (Naomi's response - while we know it is true - is emotional enough to be dismissed), I think it was the only response they could make. There are hard choices to be made when nation (and the solar system) are at stake.

Happily, in a deus ex machina that seems valid for a Church made into a Battleship, the equipment didn't work.

[CigarDoug]

"Doors and corners, doors and corners."

I'm just happy that my favorite Miller quote makes a comeback. He's serving the same purpose as when he was just Miller, not Proto!Miller, trying to help someone out. Little things like that make me love this show.

[Haleth]

Wow!  That was outstanding!  So much suspense as all guns were focused on the Roci while the Roci crew scrambled impotently to set things right.  And twitchy Miller getting less twitchy at each reincarnation.  And the simmering tension between Dummer and Ashford, with Naomi in the middle.   Is it Wed yet??

[Holmbo]

Weirdest episode yet! Not sure what I thought of it. At first I thought it was too slow and was impatient for more to happen. Be careful what you wish for!
I didn't expect to get so much information about Miller/The Investigator. I thought the plot would go on it's merry way for at least a few episodes before Holden would get any clarity on that.

On 2018-05-31 at 5:25 AM, Emily Thrace said:

I officially don't like Documentary Girl. Everything she says comes out sexualized like she is flirting with everyone. Its just not a good look on what is supposed to be a professional working woman. It seems like she is trying to sleep her way through the Roci crew and gain access to them that way. The actress was bad for doing that on Defiance too actually.

Agreed. I don't think I would mind the flirting if it worked, but she's clearly not getting anything from it. A reporter is supposed to get people to open up, not make them all surly and withdrawn. Unless maybe her mission is to portray them as unsympathetic as possible,

To clarify, I don't like the guy either, but at least with him am curious what kinda plot he's part of.

On 2018-05-31 at 5:15 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Heh, Amos' whole "I'm not sure I can help, but I won't judge" remark pretty much fits him to a tee.  I loved that he was all freaked out over Holden's meltdown, but still trusted him at the end.  He really has become one of the best characters on this show.

When he first started talking I'd thought he'd end with something like "I can go get Alex so you can talk with him" :D

 

On 2018-05-31 at 4:02 PM, marinw said:

That's not mine. Cher on The Churn Podcast cames up with that IIRC. But you are welcome.

I feel like several people have come up with it in parallel.

I have to admit, the thing that first caught my interest for this show was the quote about it being GoT in space :D

On 2018-05-31 at 5:52 PM, johntfs said:

Why do you think there has to be some grand, evil mastermind behind them?  Villains are people, too.  People have friends, family, lovers, wives, etc.  Mao has at least two children, Julie, who is dead/one-with-the-protomolecule and one more.  Maybe Melba is her.  Or Nguyen's kid or girlfriend.  Maybe camera guy was Nguyen's boyfriend.  Hell, let's recall that once upon a time Holden blew up a ship from "Space Doctors Without Borders."  Figure that story came out and given the threat of the proto-molecule Holden was given a pass but maybe the doctors' various friends/lovers/spouses/children aren't as forgiving.

Considering all the resources that would be needed for such an operation I think there have to be a lot more people involved in it. I wonder if there's a fourth faction coming up in this story. Maybe all those undocumented people on earth is plotting some kinda rebellion. No, they don't have resources either. That's the only other group I can think of.

One of the show recap podcasts talked a lot about fake video messages a few episodes back in regards to the Errinwrights message. The hosts were discussing if that far into the future it would even be possible to distinguish a real video message from a simulated one. And now the show seem to bringing that up as well. I suppose people consider the message to be real because it was sent from the  Rocci.

[raven]

Posts that discuss the books, even if it's something like 'this is different than the books' may be hidden within the episode topics. Spoiler tags are appropriate as well if it's a quick reference to the book.

Do not argue/engage with each other over whether a post is appropriate in the thread; report it instead. 

[WildPlum]

So.... Evil Conspirator Blind Guy (ECBG henceforth) puts the "chip" that disables the Roci's communications systems and broadcast the James Holden "manifesto"  - because then Holden and crew would get fired on, the ship would explode and they would all die. There is something just a bit off about that, let me think - oh, right, he is on the ship, too! Either he didn't know what was on the chip (which I doubt) or he is suicidal. Even if whoever he is plotting with (and it has to be Mabel or Melba or whatever her name is) had no way to know Holden would actually be right there, in the middle of things (really, don't they even watch the show they are on?) and they planned for some other outcome, ECBG had to know what the actual current status is and what the likely results were.

[Netfoot]

3 minutes ago, WildPlum said:

There is something just a bit off about that, let me think - oh, right, he is on the ship, too!

Just a suicide bomber who isn't wearing a waistcoat . . .

Because surely he can't expect to get away with it.  It only ends two ways for him:  i) The Roci is vaporized with all on board, or ii) Amos puts his 'nads in a vice.

[raven]

The blind conspirator probably though that Holden would surrender and be arrested, not that he would run.

[showme]

3 hours ago, raven said:

The blind conspirator probably tough that Holden would surrender and be arrested, not that he would run.

That is probably not the plan.

As you can see how the event unfolded, there was not even an option to surrender. I think the blind guy had a plan that is much more sinister than that, and he was prepared to die for it.

[Andrew Wiggin]

7 hours ago, WildPlum said:

So.... Evil Conspirator Blind Guy (ECBG henceforth) puts the "chip" that disables the Roci's communications systems and broadcast the James Holden "manifesto"  - because then Holden and crew would get fired on, the ship would explode and they would all die. There is something just a bit off about that, let me think - oh, right, he is on the ship, too! Either he didn't know what was on the chip (which I doubt) or he is suicidal. Even if whoever he is plotting with (and it has to be Mabel or Melba or whatever her name is) had no way to know Holden would actually be right there, in the middle of things (really, don't they even watch the show they are on?) and they planned for some other outcome, ECBG had to know what the actual current status is and what the likely results were.

There else should he be ? They are in Space not on Earth ,travelling with high Speed.

The Rossinate is a Small craft and got no Space for a Shuttle so if he want to go on another Ship they need to dock.

So its relativ easy to know  that he is still on the Ship.

And Melba got a com how showed here that the Programm on the Rossinante was in Place.

It says Detonator ready sys linkt to Rocinante ready.

We dont know if ECBG know anything that would happend.

The part in Controll as far as we know is Melba.

Edited June 2, 2018 by Andrew Wiggin