S04.E06: Just in Case

[raven]

Quote

Strand wrestles with Madison's decisions. Things take an unexpected turn at the Stadium.

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Oh Dharma, you really phucked up Girl.

[Christi]

Wasnt that Z-Nation's theme song?

Im really sick of this "Before" crap, and by the amount of posts, others r too?

Edited May 21, 2018 by Christi

[Christi]

ok...John was saving this show for me?

[filmgal]

Ugh. How do these people constantly mess up everything they touch?

 

Shooting John right when he gets his reunion? So cheap.

 

There could be 100 reasons that Madison is no longer with the Land Rover - even if that’s where Alicia saw her last. 

 

Why did Dharma go into the FEMA place when she knew the truck was out back - and that’s the way she went in?! Oh right, just so we could have a scene where she would have to be rescued. ?

Edited May 21, 2018 by filmgal

[nvwalker]

Why can't they just tell the story?  Start at the beginning and show us what happens.  So tired of flashbacks and jumping around timelines. 

[Cigale]

1 hour ago, filmgal said:

Why did Dharma go into the FEMA place when she knew the truck was out back - and that’s the way she went in?! Oh right, just so we could have a scene where she would have to be rescued.

Didn’t she take a notebook?  With instructions about sutures and...  turnips?   :D

Edited May 21, 2018 by sisterspoon

[Daltrey]

4 hours ago, Christi said:

ok...John was saving this show for me?

Fuck this Show and fuck Alicia! She used to be the only character who didn`t routinely make me want to pull out my hair but now I want her and all the OC to die. If John is gone, I'm team caravan.

[JackONeill]

Seriously??!??

8:00 am Monday morning and only seven (7) posts?

I hope the actors and crews have jobs lined up for next season.

But then, this is AMC, the channel with ... nothing.

[Jel]

Is John really dead? Kinda seemed like a Glenn fake out...the cliffhanger aspect of it. Or maybe he will die next week. And if he does, that would be yet another very bad decision. He's an interesting, very likable character....and we can't have nice things.

What we really need to know is did the actor just buy a house in the area where they film the show. Nothing kills them off faster that real estate.

[zobot81]

No, Alicia, there will be no, "No" whispering, followed by an idiotic act of murderous revenge, not in this universe!

Oh, I'm sorry. Okay, that's fine!

(Kill the franchise just kill it).

[TVFan17]

I've said all along, going back to previous seasons, that I wanted Madison, Nick and Alicia off the show.    There was nothing compelling enough about any of them for me to care what happened to them, and the acting was not that great.   In fact, I said the only way I would tolerate Alicia was if Madison and Nick were gone, because at least I would be rid of 2 of them.    Other people in this forum were all "No... save Alicia" or "Get rid of Madison and Nick, but Alicia can stay", etc. 

Now see what happens when Alicia stays?   She is a dumb ass who does idiotic things..... and is not the least bit charismatic and charming while screwing up.

Edited May 21, 2018 by TVFan17

[Starchild]

Of the three of them, I prefer Madison. 

[TVFan17]

1 minute ago, Starchild said:

Of the three of them, I prefer Madison. 

She seems to be more tolerable this year, in the increasingly tedious flashback scenes, and that is interesting because we might later find out that she is dead, or that those scenes are somehow not real or whatever.  If we do find out that she is dead and this is not all a clever fake out of some sort,  we will know that Madison was at her most charming before dying.

[wintrygal]

11 hours ago, filmgal said:

Ugh. How do these people constantly mess up everything they touch?

 

Shooting John right when he gets his reunion? So cheap.

 

There could be 100 reasons that Madison is no longer with the Land Rover - even if that’s where Alicia saw her last. 

 

Why did Dharma go into the FEMA place when she knew the truck was out back - and that’s the way she went in?! Oh right, just so we could have a scene where she would have to be rescued. ?

She took a set of keys out of that big black box where the notebook was, which she tossed to Madison and told her the truck was out back. Maybe those trucks are harder to hot wire? 

[oakville]

34 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

She seems to be more tolerable this year, in the increasingly tedious flashback scenes, and that is interesting because we might later find out that she is dead, or that those scenes are somehow not real or whatever.  If we do find out that she is dead and this is not all a clever fake out of some sort,  we will know that Madison was at her most charming before dying.

I like Madison this year. She makes more sense. It's a much better show this year. The different time shifts are confusing. The Vultures aren't over the top evil. I hope that the Walking Dead writers pay attention.

49 minutes ago, TVFan17 said:

I've said all along, going back to previous seasons, that I wanted Madison, Nick and Alicia off the show.    There was nothing compelling enough about any of them for me to care what happened to them, and the acting was not that great.   In fact, I said the only way I would tolerate Alicia was if Madison and Nick were gone, because at least I would be rid of 2 of them.    Other people in this forum were all "No... save Alicia" or "Get rid of Madison and Nick, but Alicia can stay", etc. 

Now see what happens when Alicia stays?   She is a dumb ass who does idiotic things..... and is not the least bit charismatic and charming while screwing up.

Alicia was more reasonable in the first season. I suspect she provides the "eye candy" to some male viewers. She lost credibility when she led the survivalists last season to their deaths.

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

I would like to tell the writers/showrunner where to stick their turnips.   And may they spend the rest of their days  nonstop watching that god awful movie, "The Notebook".

Alicia, sucks at life.  John is one of the best characters on the show, he better find a way to live.

Last season the ratings plummeted, and yet the people that run this thing can't seem to buy a clue that they need to phase out the old cast and bring on a new one? It sure seems that way.

The new cast is much better. Garrett Dillahunt is awesome. Lenny James is awesome. Check him out in Jericho.

[oakville]

I was a bit confused when Naomi /Laura was talking to Madison about saving the little girl Rose. Was Rose her daughter? a relative?

It's a continuing problem with the show about destroying seemingly safe places that Madison & her family visit.

The survivalist ranch was an ideal place with enough weapons to win a war against any enemy.

I liked the hotel. They were happy there until Madison lit up the sign to attract refugees.

I never understood why they abandoned Strand's beautiful house on the water.

The yacht was a nice place too.

They destroyed Strand's lover's house & ranch in Mexico.

[Ohwell]

First time I watched this season.  It was not good.

[bookrat]

Why did Alicia shoot John? It made no sense....or was she trying to shoot Laura, but missed.

[raven]

4 hours ago, oakville said:

Was Rose her daughter?

Yes, Rose was her daughter.

1 hour ago, bookrat said:

It made no sense....or was she trying to shoot Laura, but missed.

Yes, she was trying to shoot Laura and John jumped in front of Laura.  Alicia et al had told John that Laura/Naomi was dead; they were obviously shocked to see her and they seem to have some ill will there. 

I liked the episode.  Madison is at her best with Strand; I like when they hang out drinking, LOL.  I prefer Madison with a positive outlook rather than how she was last season (and I think Kim Dickens is better at playing it) and I could see how she might change her outlook considering how everyone she cared about survived the dam.    It also made sense that Madison would decide to do a "JIC" plan too, after the discussion with Strand and seeing the FEMA place.

Strand needs to stop beating himself up for having a contingency plan; I get that he should have shared what he had, but having an emergency out is not the worst idea. 

I also like the Morgan/John pairing - it's my favorite actually.  I don't think John is gone, nope!  Last week's love story didn't really move me but I really like John.  It's still hard for me to buy "true love" - they didn't know each other for very long and he was alone for a long time.  I guess looking for her gives him something to do anyway.

I also liked the opening with the Vulture guy picking everything apart; it's good to see useful items being scavenged.   

4 hours ago, icemiser69 said:

Naomi is a bit of a strange character.  The writers need to explain in a believable way why Naomi does what she does.

I agree - I kept thinking "why didn't she ask John to look for her kid, why not ask Madison's group, everyone is offering to help her".  Then we find out she didn't because her kid is dead...OK?  She wants to bring the items back to Madison's group?  I think she might be a Vulture spy. 

[SoSueMe]

17 hours ago, sisterspoon said:

Didn’t she take a notebook?  With instructions about sutures and...  turnips?   :D

Oh geez, turnips???

[deemac]

I had given up on this.  Only watched this season because of the Morgan cross over.  Not impressed with the first episode but the following ones slowly drew me back in (be nice if the original did but I've even deleted it from my dvr, maybe IF Negan is ever gone).  I actually LIKE John Dorie.  I care about Morgan but don't particularly like him.  I'm relieved that Madison is no longer a bulldozer over everyone and everything, Nick got over being the strung out addict, Alicia stopped flirting with unknown guys and being girly girly in the midst of horror and tragedy.  BUT I LIKE JOHN DORIE.  If he's gone this is another story that I don't want to know the ending.

[SoSueMe]

10 hours ago, JackONeill said:

Seriously??!??

8:00 am Monday morning and only seven (7) posts?

I hope the actors and crews have jobs lined up for next season.

But then, this is AMC, the channel with ... nothing.

Funny you mention that. I don't usually pop in on the regular episode thread since I really enjoy the live chat thread and spend more time there til it's locked.  

 

This is a good thread though.

[raven]

46 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

For me, I need to see the transition.

That's fair.  It's working for me so far.  We may get more back story to show this transition; we may even go as far back as Madison washing up when the dam exploded (that last scene from last season).  I can't imagine the show not wanting to show us the hero moments of its leading lady saving everyone.

I can understand Strand - he's been stashing, but he's also been working with everyone all this time and I think feeling guilty, based on how he was trying to explain things to the other guy (can't remember his name).  This episode he says that Madison's been influencing him.  We know he's capable of relationships and he obviously has a bond with her.  I'm glad he's showing a bit more depth than just "selfish asshole with pithy one-liners".  Of course we know it all went to hell anyway.

37 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

Didn't the Vultures talk to Naomi on the walkie-talkie?  Isn't that why she showed up? 

Yes I meant from before those events.  She's obviously with them now; I wonder if she was with them when was supposedly just a poor lost waif that Madison's group found (then again, she did kind of play hard to get after they rescued her, so maybe not). 

She could have been trying to leave to get the FEMA stuff for the Vultures, was caught by Madison and gave it to them instead, or some other explanation. 

[Pixiebomb]

I was actually enjoying this show right up until Stupid Alicia shot John. I can't believe it. The only character I actual like and Stupid Alicia shoots him. 

[slf]

I don't care if she did shoot John, Alicia has been one of the most useful and least obnoxious people on this show. Her and Strand have been the only two I consistently like. Of the new people only John and Morgan are remotely interesting. Laura is not so much "mysterious" and boring and frustrating. Althea I just pretend doesn't exist; the camera is beyond dumb. If you're going to preserve people's stories then write them down! Recording them on video is pointless! Demanding people share their traumas in exchange for help is an utterly dick move, also.

[william0102]

I see Kirkman hasn't learned to stop using multiple timelines. Last night's episode was the only one I watched live this season, and honestly I still haven't watched the first one or the one with the cowboy and Dharma. What I want to know is, that they had perfect set ups for all of the characters because of last season's finale- they could have taken any of the characters in whatever direction they wanted. Instead, we get multiple g*d d*amn timelines and characters at extremes (present time) and four characters that are basically the same (depressed at the stadium). They had the opportunity to make Madison happy, Alicia darker, Strand going from grateful back to his old ways, but we get whiplash characters and a bunch of new characters? I don't like the messed up timelines, Kirkland, I don't like Morgan, I don't like the cowboy (if I wanted to watch that character I'd still be watching the mothership where he's named Rick), I don't care that Dharma's the big bad of the Vultures *, and Althea is a d*ck and some self insert fantasy of how the writers think of their show/characters. I am just going to binge it when the season is over, cuz I would bet everything I own on Madison not being dead at this point, since that's probably their big twist. 

*And thank you show, for assuming that I can't put together that Dharma was shady by her ever evolving story and ditching people. That the freaking Fema truck was still there with supplies, I get it Dharma is the female version of the Governor. I didn't need you having Hotdog Guy tell Madison to watch out for the unexpected *wink,wink* *nudge, nudge*, only for her to be the one on the other end of the radio.

[Daltrey]

11 hours ago, oakville said:

Lenny James is awesome. Check him out in Jericho.

This......So. Much, This! I wish more people had watched Jericho when it was on and that CBS didn't get greedy, needing every show to get CSI type ratings numbers. Everyone I've introduced that show to has loved it! Lenny was also amazing in and easily the best thing about Low Winter Sun as well. It would be nice if he could stop getting screwed over.

[Sentient Meat]

Lennie James was really good in the UK show Line of Duty also.

Last week's episode was perhaps the first episode I enjoyed since they had an all Spanish episode a season or two back... and then they possibly kill the first decent character the either franchise has produced in years.  If he's not dead, it's going to take a lot more than a fishhook and fishing line to sew up that chest wound.

Please keep Dharma and Garret... and enough with trying to make Madison likeable... just reboot without her.

[RickGrimes]

This show is really falling apart. Each week the characters take turns having an emotional breakdown, nothing new or intriguing happens. The mash up of the old and new characters didn’t mesh at all. The before and after story I cannot make sense of and is not interesting. I’m almost done with this show. Rant over!

[oakville]

5 hours ago, Daltrey said:

This......So. Much, This! I wish more people had watched Jericho when it was on and that CBS didn't get greedy, needing every show to get CSI type ratings numbers. Everyone I've introduced that show to has loved it! Lenny was also amazing in and easily the best thing about Low Winter Sun as well. It would be nice if he could stop getting screwed over.

Jericho was my favourite show back in 2006. I remember how the fans organized a campaign to send nuts to CBS. It worked!. I still have a DVD of the series.

[lu1535]

I watched this episode this morning and just as Naomi was talking about the FEMA evacuation site my recording flipped to a testosterone enhancement commercial. When the show returned it was apparent that she had told Madison and Strand something that surprised them. What did she say? Thanks, I'm going crazy wondering.

[oakville]

7 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If the writers of this show want me to care about Ailcia, then they are going to have to give me some evidence that she was a badass before the ZA.  Going to summer camp and learning how to make smores doesn't count.  She doesn't have the life experiences that so many people that are older than her have.  Those people would stand a much better chance of surviving a ZA than Alicia.   Life experiences matter, because the internet no longer exists in the ZA.  So people who have spent the bulk of their lives living pre-internet, would have a much better chance of survival post internet. 

Alicia's life is dominated by the internet.  She has to learn to adapt without it.  We haven't seen that.  She should have died long ago.

Alicia was a typical teen prior to the ZA. She freaked out when her boyfriend got sick. I think Madison or her husband ended up killing him. She had no clue what was happening. Frankly, they should have made more episodes about the first few months of the ZA. It makes no sense that a city like LA collapsed in 8 days.

[lu1535]

Oops, I already blew it away. They were spending the night at the hotel and Naomi had finally told them where they were going, a FEMA station. She must have said something about why she was there or what she was doing there. It was probably about 20 minutes in, they hadn't arrived at the FEMA place yet, and after the surprise looks the scene goes to the morning and Madison discovers that Naomi had taken off. Does that help?

[JackONeill]

18 minutes ago, oakville said:

Alicia was a typical teen prior to the ZA. She freaked out when her boyfriend got sick. I think Madison or her husband ended up killing him. She had no clue what was happening. Frankly, they should have made more episodes about the first few months of the ZA. It makes no sense that a city like LA collapsed in 8 days.

Interesting you should say that because the only interesting thing in this episode was the guy at the start who was taking EVERYTHING — florescent light bulbs, screws, door jams, etc. I mean that is survival. You take everything you can get because you have no idea if you’ll need it, but if you do need it and don’t have it, then you’re screwed.

As many people have said, and moaned about, this show was given an opportunity to show us survival from the get-go —show how inexperienced people coped with something overwhelming. And TPTB said that’s what they were going to do. But as we all know ...

[lu1535]

Thanks so much! Okay, Naomi admitting she was a coward fits the exchange perfectly. Yay, now I can sleep tonight ;), thanks to you icemiser69! 

[slf]

49 minutes ago, icemiser69 said:

If the writers of this show want me to care about Ailcia, then they are going to have to give me some evidence that she was a badass before the ZA.  Going to summer camp and learning how to make smores doesn't count.  She doesn't have the life experiences that so many people that are older than her have.  Those people would stand a much better chance of surviving a ZA than Alicia.   Life experiences matter, because the internet no longer exists in the ZA.  So people who have spent the bulk of their lives living pre-internet, would have a much better chance of survival post internet. 

Alicia's life is dominated by the internet.  She has to learn to adapt without it.  We haven't seen that.  She should have died long ago.

This world having no internet doesn't seem like it'd be the biggest issue in determining Alicia's survival to me, lol. And I spent years watching a little boy make headshots on the mothership and Nick the magic junkie somehow survive the apocalypse using drugs then going through withdrawal with little more than some vomiting so nothing about Alicia simply being alive strikes me as so out there (except that she's a young woman and they tend not to last long in the WD franchise). 

[Haleth]

6 hours ago, Daltrey said:

This......So. Much, This! I wish more people had watched Jericho when it was on and that CBS didn't get greedy, needing every show to get CSI type ratings numbers. Everyone I've introduced that show to has loved it! Lenny was also amazing in and easily the best thing about Low Winter Sun as well. It would be nice if he could stop getting screwed over.

Yeah, it was evolving into a really good show... then it got cancelled.  Lenny was the best part of it.

So Madison is all sunshine and rainbows now, which means her new attitude probably got her killed.  Unless the writers have a little more imagination and all this foreshadowing is a misdirection.  What did the vulture tell her?  Something about how you don't see [the disaster] coming?  Are the writers gutsy enough to kill off their lead character?

Sorry, Madison, but those small patches of garden are not going to feed 40+ people.  And it's going to take months for anything to be ready to eat.

Didn't TWD use the THEN and NOW time cards too?

[slf]

1 minute ago, icemiser69 said:

I get the feeling that the future of this show is going to be built around Alicia.  I expect more from lead characters than the supporting cast.

Personally, I highly doubt it. They've always allowed Alicia to be an afterthought and I don't think Madison is dead.

[magdalene]

I was watching this show only again because of Garret Dillahunt.  Bleh.

[seacliffsal]

So, whether or not I stay with this show is dependent on whether or not John Dorie lives...

[FishyJoe]

I don't understand the strategy of the vultures. They want all the supplies that the stadium people have, but they are waiting for the stadium people to exhaust all their supplies? And then when the stadium people find supplies, they gloat about it and drive right past the vultures? It's like haha, look at all the stuff we found, now you have to leave. 

I'm also finding Naomi having a lot more decency compared to Madison so far, even if she winds up being bad. At least she has guilt over the deaths she might have caused. Madison killed all those people in the Mexican hotel and never seemed to have the slightest hint of remorse. 

[StatMom]

I have complained in the past about shows that hit you over the head with exposition explaining stuff too much, or that seems to assume the audience has no attention span. I rescind those complaints now. More time jumping in this episode (I guess the chyrons telling us what was earlier vs now was better than not telling us?) that is apparently too much for my aging brain. Every jump, I find myself trying to remember "what did they know already at this point?" And if I don't know the answer to that, I can't even remember if I was SUPPOSED to know, or if they're being cryptic on purpose.

The constant use is beyond annoying in TWD, and now that there are characters I actually care about on FTWD (John and Dharma), they throw us into the time scrambler. On Breaking Bad, they did an excellent job with this device -- e.g., an opening teaser, then the episode shows us what got to that point. But all this flopping around on the WD universe is just confusing.

[Juliegirlj]

So they have been on the run, practically starving from lack of food, yet, Alicia has a full booty and skin tight jeans. ..

Naomie / Laura showed real remorse when she was alone at the FEMA shelter, so she isn’t all bad- more a dynamic survivor like Strand and Madison. 

Sure seems easy for people to come and go from the stadium- shouldn’t there be a strict rule about if you leave for an un sanctioned reason don’t bother coming back?! 

Madison sure seems to be getting the “ grow a moral conscience in the ZA and DIE” edit. 

If John Dorie dies, I quit. 

[For Cereals]

On 5/23/2018 at 9:41 AM, Juliegirlj said:

Madison sure seems to be getting the “ grow a moral conscience in the ZA and DIE” edit. 

Or does she? Duh duh duh...maybe she catches a case of Patty Hearst syndrome

[OoohMaggie]

Are we thinking a gunshot wound like that should  be terminal in their present surroundings? At that range it would surely be a through and through, which is a benefit. I can’t think that there’s much empty space in your average torso, what would be in that area? Did it miss the lung, too high for a kidney or intestine?

does anyone know the calibre of the round it would have been, did anyone else think Alicia was aiming at the ground when the shot was fired? Lol

[Red Bridey]

I would wager John Dorey is wearing a bulletproof vest.  Not a spoiler, just a guess.

[slf]

On 5/26/2018 at 4:57 AM, OoohMaggie said:

Are we thinking a gunshot wound like that should  be terminal in their present surroundings? At that range it would surely be a through and through, which is a benefit. I can’t think that there’s much empty space in your average torso, what would be in that area? Did it miss the lung, too high for a kidney or intestine?

In the ZA, a gunshot to the head is perfectly survivable and a few artful swipes of walker blood is enough to mask you as you waltz through a herd.

The serious answer is it seemed to hit in the spleen area, maybe the stomach.

[jane1978]

On 23. 5. 2018 at 6:17 PM, icemiser69 said:

Alicia is talked about in a rather positive way at many of the places I visit on the internet.  She is very popular.  I don't like her, but to each his own.  If she had a more impressive backstory I could buy into her being a bad ass.  Her current backstory, not so much.

As for Madison, I don't know if she is alive or dead, but she has become all sunshine and rainbows and those type of characters don't tend to have much of a shelf life on this series or the mothership.

I don´t understand what special backstory she should have to survive. She´s always been athletic and physically active girl so she just had to learn how to fight and shoot. Not that hard at her age, especially when she had her adoptive father and her brother around, both capable fighters. I agree they could actually SHOW how she learned her current skills but given she had like 100 lines total in the first season and not much more in second we just have to assume it happened why we watched Nick´s and Maddison´s latest drama. Which makes sense because the show made clear from beginning she´s always had to rely on herself and herself only. Honestly, most girl like her would just hook up with someone like the Vulture leader for protection and that´s it. So that she is not thinking about using her body as a comodity and is able to fend for herself is a big plus for me. 

Anyway, I think this was a good episode. I think it´s interesting it ended on such a happy note on the stadium when we know the tragedy is still ahead. I think the succesfull replanting made the stadium shelter more valuable and the Vultures will return with much less restrain. And Laura has to betray Maddison when things start to look really bleak again, maybe even making a secret deal with the Vultures.

Of course, we still don´t know if Maddison is dead or not. I half expected it will be Maddion who whill step out from the jeap. It wouldn´t make sense, but it would certainly be a twist to talk about. 

[slf]

2 hours ago, jane1978 said:

I don´t understand what special backstory she should have to survive. She´s always been athletic and physically active girl so she just had to learn how to fight and shoot. Not that hard at her age, especially when she had her adoptive father and her brother around, both capable fighters. I agree they could actually SHOW how she learned her current skills but given she had like 100 lines total in the first season and not much more in second we just have to assume it happened why we watched Nick´s and Maddison´s latest drama. Which makes sense because the show made clear from beginning she´s always had to rely on herself and herself only.

All of this, that last point especially. This franchise has produced many characters that have gone from 'noodled-arm weakling' to 'zombie apocalypse badass' with zero explanation and to a preposterous degree. Alicia isn't one of them. She's not out here fighting people hand to hand, she hasn't learned some special martial arts, she isn't making one head shot after another no matter the distance or visibility. She's a decent enough shot but she mostly sticks to stabbing walkers in the head with a knife once they're in arms reach. She was in good shape before this all went down and she's been fighting since the beginning, not just hiding behind others. Her continued survival isn't surprising to me and is more realistic than plenty of other characters (like her brother who lived about three season too long).