Season 2 Talk

[SHD]

This episode was disheartening. The whole season was. I feel like now that Hannah's story is done, it's just going to turn into a dark, edgy standard high school drama if it gets a S3. I guess I'm invested in these characters, but they're so beyond the source material now.

I didn't especially care for ghost Hannah, but I understand she had to be there so the viewers were able to know what was going on in Clay's head and understand his thought process for those things he wouldn't say to other characters.

So S3 main storylines would be Chloe's pregnancy, Justin's heroin, maybe repercussions for Nina for burning the photos (if anyone finds out), what happens with Tyler, what happens with Bryce at his new school, and Justin's Mom's boyfriend stalking him.

A few less heavy thoughts:

1) I went to one of the largest high schools in one of the biggest cities in the country and even if every student had brought 5 dates to a dance, there would not have been as many people as were at the Spring Fling dance.

2) Do the kids not have modern day punk/emo bands of their own? The kids had posters of The Ramones, The Cure, Joy Division, etc. I did enjoy hearing the Replacements song in the episode where Jess kisses the boy Nina pointed out to her. I just feel like the music references more reflected the age of the writers than the characters. 

[ctmd]

i see a lot of people comparing female rape to male rape here, but the difference between Tyler's rape and the other rapes wasn't male vs female, it was anal rape vs vaginal rape, it was rape with a foreign object, it was rape that caused bleeding for hours, it was rape after a brutal assault, it was rape in front of multiple people, it was rape over a toilet bowl on the bathroom floor. There was a lot going on in that scene that made it brutal, that had nothing to do with Tyler's gender. In fact NONE of what made it brutal and honestly more awful than any of the other assaults we saw on this show had to do with his gender. Even if he were female and he had been vaginally raped in the same way, it would have been horrific. Everything about his rape was horrible, to the point that it actually made me want him to gun down the entire fucking school. I was mad at him for not going to anyone when it happened, but I totally understood his rage. 

 

I also don't understand why people felt he seemed rehabilitated? But maybe it's because I'm a psychiatrist- he seemed like he was faking well from the very moment he came back. 

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/20/2018 at 1:19 AM, Hazel55 said:

Clay, oh Clay. As much as I like Skye (she seems like a sweet girl), getting romantically involved and serving as the sole means of support for a clinically depressed girl is the last thing you need right now. Seriously, the "you must call me whenever you're thinking about cutting yourself" thing stuck me as dangerously near to codependency. Worse, it seemed as though Skye was not talking to/ dealing with her issues with anyone other than Clay. And with Clay now having halucinatory visions of his last clinically depressed crush (does anyone else detect a pattern here?), the whole situation strikes me as extremely combustable. Skye and Clay both need to seek individual counseling and take at least several months to heal before they can any kind of healthy romantic relationship with each other. (Jesus, I sound like an after school special. But this relationship so clearly has a "Danger: Unhealthy!" sign flashing above it in neon lights, I can't really pass it over without comment.) 

Even when he's standing up for Hannah and being decent, Tyler is still a little weird. Tyler, you got mad at Hannah for sexting another dude? Because, according to you, said dude "didn't really know or deserve her?" It's not your place, dude. You don't own her, she's not your girlfriend, you have no right to be so possessive with her. Also, his taking pictures of Alex while the latter was in a coma? Totally creepy. I mean, WTF, Tyler?

YES. Clay, Skye is not your Hannah-lives-this-time chance. It's entirely commendable that you want to help her and that you've obviously researched self harm and ways to help treat but you're just a few months removed from a severe trauma yourself. I agree, this screams codependency.

Tyler is gross. It sucks he was bullied, and he does get my sympathy for that but his obsession with Hannah is disturbing. His trying to excuse his covert photography pf her by saying "I was trying to process what I was seeing"--GROSS. Dude, no, you weren't. You were being a creeper. I just detest Nice Guys.

[CeeBeeGee]

The Kelli O'Hara character (who is staying with Hannah's mom)--RAGE. How fucking DARE she wash that dress? I would've thrown her out of the house. Of all people, of ALL people, she should've known how gross an invasion of privacy that was, what a huge betrayal. What a cruel thing to do, whether or not she was intending to be cruel.

Jessica is still sleeping on her parents' floor? It's been months, can they not break out the wallet for a new bed for her?

I never understood why so many commenters said that Hannah was a drama queen. Skye? Skye is a drama queen. And it's really tasteless to fondle your BF under the table when having dinner with his parents. 

Shoutout to whoever commented on their having sex while Clay's parents were below. My parents would've knocked the tar out of me had I tried that. 

Proud of Courtney for stepping up, although it was disgusting of the defense attorney to force her to make that revelation.

[mansonlamps]

On 5/26/2018 at 10:13 AM, Chicken Wing said:

Am I the only one who, when we saw Meredith Monroe as Alex's mom, immediately Googled her age? And went, "Goddammit, she's 48?!!" And then felt about a million years old to realize that one of the teen characters from Dawson's Creek (who admittedly never looked like a real teenager) is now pushing 50 and playing the mother of a teen?

In fairness, wasn't she almost 30 playing a teenager on Dawson's Creek?

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/21/2018 at 11:43 PM, truthaboutluv said:

Yeah sadly, I don't see that being the case. I thought it was clear that the guy was building some type of home-made bomb when his sister came in and the way he spoke to her, totally getting underlying psycho vibes. I wish this would be a heartwarming story of Tyler finally finding friends and a place were he feels he belongs but yeah, not getting a good vibe at all.

Yes, they were talking abut detonators. The show is clearly hinting at Tyler being a future school shooter. Whether this will actually come to pass remains to be seen. Tyler's immediate creepy focus on Mackenzie in the kitchen didn't reassure me. Tyler, just because a girl is reasonably nice to you doesn't mean she HAS to be your next GF.

On 5/22/2018 at 4:16 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

What caught my ear was that when Tony and Clay were talking about going to look for Justin in Oakland, they kept referring to it as the city. Up here, the city always means SF. In local newspapers, SF is often referred to in print as The City. Even people who live way out in the burbs like Walnut Creek or Livermore (and for whom Oakland is closer) know that terminology and call SF “the city.” No one ever refers to Oakland as the city. I’m guessing this was the show’s attempt to make the show seem a little more generic/less location specific and they intended it to come off as “we live in this little town and Justin is in The Big Scary City” but they kind of ruined that by specifically telling us that he was in Oakland. 

OMG. I could NOT figure out what was listed on that postcard. I finally decided he was living in "DAKLAND." I couldn't read it!

Fascinating discussion on the NoCal specific use of "hella." I got that word from The Real World back when they were casting from that area--Malik used that word a lot.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

6 hours ago, CeeBeeGee said:

Tyler, just because a girl is reasonably nice to you doesn't mean she HAS to be your next GF.

OMG. I could NOT figure out what was listed on that postcard. I finally decided he was living in "DAKLAND." I couldn't read it!

Fascinating discussion on the NoCal specific use of "hella." I got that word from The Real World back when they were casting from that area--Malik used that word a lot.

Seriously - I know that people get crushes for any damn reason, especially at that age, but it drives me crazy when guys act like any girl who isn't actively hostile to them MUST like them and must therefore become their girlfriend.

Hahahaha, I was totally cracking up over Dakland!

Talk about a blast from the past - Malik from The Real World! Here's a crazy thought - the characters on this show were not born when that season of the Real World was filmed.

I think that hella got its first mainstream (non-NorCal) exposure from the South Park episode Spookyfish:

[Mama No Life]

On 6/2/2018 at 3:55 PM, CeeBeeGee said:

The Kelli O'Hara character (who is staying with Hannah's mom)--RAGE. How fucking DARE she wash that dress? I would've thrown her out of the house. Of all people, of ALL people, she should've known how gross an invasion of privacy that was, what a huge betrayal. What a cruel thing to do, whether or not she was intending to be cruel.

Jessica is still sleeping on her parents' floor? It's been months, can they not break out the wallet for a new bed for her?

I never understood why so many commenters said that Hannah was a drama queen. Skye? Skye is a drama queen. And it's really tasteless to fondle your BF under the table when having dinner with his parents. 

Shoutout to whoever commented on their having sex while Clay's parents were below. My parents would've knocked the tar out of me had I tried that. 

Proud of Courtney for stepping up, although it was disgusting of the defense attorney to force her to make that revelation.

To be fair, I don't think they ended up having sex.  His flag faded too early for that.

But yes, bold choice with your parents downstairs, as was running down the steps after her with no shirt on.  After Skye loudly slammed the doors and took off his mom should have been all over him.

[aussieinsydney]

I just finished watching this (finally) and like a few others, I'm pissed off the show wasn't wrapped up this season! It would have been so easy to tie up each story line and character arc and leave the viewers satisfied and happy with the outcome. It was a chore to watch 13 kind of dragged out episodes and I doubt I can watch a 3rd season. I'll more than likely just read through the comments here on each episode to keep abreast of what's happening.

[kj4ever]

13 hours ago, GayAsFuck said:

As Tyler's rehabilitation  is quickly thrown out the window with one brutal and (throughout many forums and communities) unspeakable act, he is left with all sorts of feelings of loneliness and violation, as well as rage. But one issue has not been addressed as far as I can tell. As is the case in most situations such as the one Tyler Down found himself in, the assailant (in this case Montgomery de la Cruz) almost immediately drops the weapon of choice. Monty does exactly this, dropping the mop that he violates Tyler with before leaving the scene nonchalantly with his buddies. The end of the handle being covered in quite a bit of evidence of the assault. I'm assuming that Tyler didn't have the mop anywhere on his mind at the time (but rather the action the mop was used for) so I'm guessing he too leaves the mop in the rest room when he heads back home. My question is, with all the evidence left in the bathroom, how could the school be unaware of the action that had occurred a significant amount of time before the dance Tyler unsuccessfully tried to shoot up. 

 

And (keeping in mind that I can differentiate between real life and a TV show) I have to say that I was a little disappointed that he didn't go through with the shooting. Am I wrong for feeling that way about the final episode of the second season of TH1RTEEN R3ASONS WHY? What are your guys' opinions on these things? 

The whole scene was put in basically to cause a student to want to shoot up the school, and it wasn't done well or realistically.

I thought that too, that anyone that found that mop would know exactly what had happened in that bathroom.  Also, with the way it was forcefully "inserted" (at least the way they portrayed it on the show) Tyler would have been laying on that ground until someone found him, and could possibly have bled to death before he was found.

I know some people say that it shouldn't be anymore disturbing than the females who were assaulted, but it is.  Not because it was done on a male, but because it was done with an object after he was half drowned in a toilet and his head smashed into a mirror and a sink.  

I would have cried foul whether it was a female or a male - this was done purely for the shock value and that sucks.

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/20/2018 at 9:04 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For me, the difference between Courtney and Marcus is that Courtney was terrified about how everyone would react if she revealed her sexuality, which is understandable (note: I am NOT excusing the way she threw Hannah under the bus to save herself last season) whereas Marcus has a shitty attitude towards females. He thought it was perfectly okay to make a bet with Bryce about how far he could get with Hannah which is really gross and misogynistic. He thought it was okay to reach between her legs in a public place on a first date. He said, "Nothing anyone did to [Hannah] was any different than what happens to every girl at every high school. She just wanted attention."

He is such a fucking, ass-kissing sleaze. First he gropes, Hannah, then sets up Clay, then he commits perjury for his rapist "friend." Please please PLEASE let him go down with Bryce.

On 5/22/2018 at 1:46 PM, SadieT said:

While I appreciate Shari's new skill, you can't really detox someone from heroin with a bottle of Gatorade. Opiate withdrawal is extremely dangerous. 

I'm really nervous about this situation! Clay's already been set up once with drugs, what if Justin has more paraphernalia with him and his parents find it? Although I am finding Justin's Linda Blair imitation amusing.

On 5/27/2018 at 12:38 PM, Snickerdoodle said:

Agreed. After Clay was run off the road , came home and yelled at his parents “ oh, and I need a fucking car!” I thought what an entitled brat. And then his parents go and give him a car!  His parents are such push overs. 

That was ridiculous. THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU, CLAY. Stop being such a brat.

[Jax7917]

I'm just surprised Tyler was able to function after that. Monty hit his head several times on the sink, plunged him in the toilet, kept banging his head and beating the crap out of him, and raped him with the mop and somehow he was physically ok after that? That seemed odd to me.

I don't know if it's the actress playing Hannah or the storyline they're giving her, but Hannah just bugs me. She was all holier than thou with the tapes and trying to make people feel guilty for what they did ( which by the way, I admit a couple of the people were pretty terrible), but it came out this season that she was a bully herself and when Jessica was being raped, Hannah was in the room with her but never helped or told anyone about it. So she's mad at people for not doing anything to help her , but why didn't she help Jessica? I understand being scared but then she's making other people out to be the devil for not helping in situations. How is she any better than Justin? Both of them did nothing to help Jessica but at least Justin blamed himself after. Hannah doesn't ever really blame herself, she just blames everyone else. And then even to put Clay on the tapes at all is really selfish since on the last tape she was just like "oh well you don't really belong on the tapes, I just decided to put you on." I don't know, I get that the point of this whole thing is that a lot of the reasons for doing what she did were nothing major, but rather everything was just bottled up and some people can't handle what other people can handle, but I just didn't like the way they wrote her character and her story.

[Jax7917]

6 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

He is such a fucking, ass-kissing sleaze. First he gropes, Hannah, then sets up Clay, then he commits perjury for his rapist "friend." Please please PLEASE let him go down with Bryce.

I'm really nervous about this situation! Clay's already been set up once with drugs, what if Justin has more paraphernalia with him and his parents find it? Although I am finding Justin's Linda Blair imitation amusing.

That was ridiculous. THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP YOU, CLAY. Stop being such a brat.

Yeah I get that he's a teenager and teenagers are bratty, but those parents really need to stop enabling his nastiness. Why would they buy him a car after the way he speaks to them?

[cherenkov]

On 5/24/2018 at 11:28 AM, Empress1 said:

Note how all of the women on the show had a story. My male friends were shocked when #metoo (shout out to Tarana Burke) started blowing up and all the women they knew had stories about being sexually harassed, assaulted, and/or raped. I think because male on female rape is depicted so readily in the media, when it happens to men it's seen as more shocking.

I don't find it realistic at all. I have actually found a lot of the "me too" to be overblown. The fact that the show turned it into literally every female character came off as preachy, unrealistic, and bullshit to me.

On 5/24/2018 at 1:13 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

For women, it's accepted as part of life. I always think about this very small exchange from My So-Called Life:

Angela: These guys started hitting on us.
Brian: What? Like, sexual harassment?
Angela: Like guys.

But for men who don't deal with being on the receiving end nearly as often, it's a shock.

Because the reality is that Angela is correctly stating that not every instance of being hit on is harassment and Brian over blew it because he was a white knight "nice guy". The entire show went off the rails with me with the "every female is a victim" thing. I find that outright insulting.

[BonnieD]

Thought it was crazy Sheri went undercover at the clubhouse without anyone standing by for her to call on if things went bad. In fact, it seemed she didn't even tell the two guys what her plan was at all, simply got up from the booth and scurried off. Just more dumb illogic from the show writers. Any normal, sane person would have her friends ready to back her up.

I have to say for someone as supposedly "friendless and alone" as everyone keeps saying Hannah was, she sure had a buttload of friends. Really quite a lot. 

[The Mighty Peanut]

This. He's incredible at being that guy. I don't feel sorry for him at all and I want to rip his face off...but when he started in with the I love you Chloe, you think I'm a good person, right Chloe? Even though he JUST RAPED HER...I almost started to feel bad. He's great at playing a manipulative piece of shit who needs to die.

Quote

I will say, as much as I loathe Bryce, I think the actor is doing a phenomenal job at portraying Bryce as a straight up rapist. I also loathe his father, who is a clear enabler and probably wouldn't care if he had proof that his son raped girls, unless it directly affected his reputation.

[BonnieD]

Quote

I'm just surprised Tyler was able to function after that. Monty hit his head several times on the sink, plunged him in the toilet, kept banging his head and beating the crap out of him, and raped him with the mop and somehow he was physically ok after that? That seemed odd to me.

More than odd, ridiculous! He would have been unconscious and maybe brain damaged after having his head beat against porcelain. I was completely taken out of the scene by the sheer unbelievablitly of it. And his scars being neatly covered by a hat? There would be bruising spreading all over his face if he even survived HAVING HIS HEAD HIT REPEATEDLY AGAINST PORCELAIN!!! Not to mention raping by mop handle. No walking normally for a long time after that and probably internal injuries that would require surgery. All so stupidly written just for drama's sake. They could've cut back severely on what was done to him and still made it be the catalyst to set off this ticking time bomb of fury.

Also, I could hardly watch with the group hug for Clay at the dance. Soooo cheesy to me. Guess I'm heartless.

Tony the 30-year-old high school junior LOL!

Well, I must have liked the show well enough because it certainly kept me watching, all stupidity in plot and character actions aside.

[kimbrchick]

I totally agree with the others saying that this would totally have been included in the tapes. She had nothing to lose and was outing all those that had hurt her. It was very sad to see that they had chemistry and were really cute in that music video type montage and that it turned out the way it did. He looked remorseful at the trial.

I think it's funny that Clay says "If I was in town last summer, that could have been me". What he doesn't consider is that Zach actually made a move and asked Hannah out and spent time talking to her. My husband likes to point out that Clay's inability to talk to her (and others not talking) has caused so many of these tragedies.

What this show should teach us all is to open up and TALK and share.

Edited June 6, 2018 by kimbrchick

[gryphon]

 I made it through the series. I liked parts of it but most of it felt like a really long after-school special. Tedious in places.  I did not watch the rape of Tyler.  I understand the importance of the issues but I need a palate cleanser.  

[FairyDusted]

I liked it! The cast rotated a bit with writers, consultants, doctors.   

[callmebetty]

What I don't understand is we are lead to believe that all the popular guys thought Hannah was hot.  Justin lied and made it seem she was easy. So that sort of ruined her reputation.  All his friends knew Zach was a virgin. So what was the big deal hiding their relationship? His friends thought Hannah was attractive and Zach really did have sex with her. Why couldn't they have been a couple? That's what's lost on me. But Zach seeming ashamed 9f the relationship made Hannah bitter and that's what I thought would have been on the tapes. So that retcon hurt the believability of Zach's tape. Under normal circumstances Clay would have come back to Hannah and Zach dating and him missing his chance with her because of going away.

[truthaboutluv]

1 hour ago, callmebetty said:

So what was the big deal hiding their relationship? His friends thought Hannah was attractive and Zach really did have sex with her. Why couldn't they have been a couple? That's what's lost on me.

Because they didn't just think she was attractive, as in, "oh yeah, Hannah's hot". At that point, thanks to Justin's lie and Bryce's being a misogynistic asshole, she was the loose chick with a nice ass who would give it up easily that they all ragged on and made fun of. And so despite Zach's being well aware none of that was true since he was the one who took her virginity and he saw Marcus essentially publicly assault her, he still wasn't strong enough to risk publicly dating her and having his friends rag on him and make snide comments like he knew they would. 

Edited June 7, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/19/2018 at 10:17 PM, Lady Calypso said:

Well, that was an episode.

This episode was really great. Since Zach is one of my favourites, I liked learning more about him and Hannah. I actually really loved their flashbacks together. You see, I get that we're supposed to like Clay and Hannah or whatever, but Hannah/Zach is the couple that could have been. It was kind of adorable to see Zach nervous. This episode cemented that Zach truly is a good guy who has just made bad choices. I was surprised at the revelation of him and Hannah as well, as last season seemed to indicate that nothing happened between the two. But this episode did a nice job explaining how, and why Hannah felt the need to include him in her tapes, but leave out the relationship part.

I feel like, with Clay, he holds Hannah on this pedestal, imagining what could have been and just seeing Hannah as a "perfect" embodiment of what he pictured her to be. It seems to be more fantasy for him. But with Zach, at least this episode convinced me that he genuinely cared about her, but it wasn't quite enough to drop everything in his life for her, to disappoint his mother by not being perfect, or dropping his athletic popularity. Which is a real shame, because in another world, he could have been with Hannah, if he was strong enough.

Clay's just a straight up asshole. I hope we're not supposed to like him, because he really is becoming the worst culprit here. His obsession with Hannah is keeping him from seeing straight. I think, if Hannah had seen this side to Clay, she might not have included in Clay's tape how he didn't deserve to be there. He's acting like an obsessive jealous ex here, and it's not a good look on him. Clay, you think you deserved Hannah any more than Zach? At this point, I'm starting to really not give a shit that he's acting out because of his grief. He's acting like Hannah's the worst person ever for not sharing everything with him and choosing not to be with him but with other guys. Clay is really displaying Nice Guy qualities, and I don't like it.

Also, if Justin, of all people, is telling you that you're a dumbass, then you better listen. Because it's Justin, who started the slut rumours in the first place and is a pretty big damn hypocrite, but also not wrong.

I'm starting to get some really bad feelings about Tyler's new friend. I probably should have figured it out earlier.

Zach and Hannah are sweetly adorable here. What a shame he couldn't laugh off his friends.

Tyler and his friend both are scaring me. Tyler has gone from self-proclaimed victim to this arrogant, strutting jerk.

Can't say I'm surprised about Alex's newfound sexuality. Man, the team gets bigger every day! Courtney, Alex...

...I'm also wondering if there's more to the story of Jessica's rape--did Justin have more to do with it than just essentially allowing Bryce to rape her? 

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/19/2018 at 11:10 PM, Lady Calypso said:

The Jeff flashbacks here made me realize that I miss Jeff. He was truly a really great guy. He made questionable decisions himself, but he had a good heart. 

Yeah, not feeling bad for Marcus in getting played by Bryce. I don't know what he really expected with doing Bryce that favor, but it was obvious that Bryce would never reciprocate. 

Yep, I'm getting a feeling on where the Tyler/Cyrus stuff is going. Cyrus has been enabling Tyler more than helping him. Also, the Chloe/Bryce scene was interesting. I'm now starting to lean toward her being Bryce's liability, rather than his asset. She didn't seem impressed with him wanting to have sex during the movie, but she seemed to be struggling with telling him no. 

Jeff, we miss you!!!

Marcus was an idiot to think Bryce would help.

What I found interesting about the CHloe/Bryce scene was that he specifically--if hastily and perfunctorily--asked her for consent. I guess those little talks they've been having with the athletes are sinking in. Now they need to teach "enthusiastic consent" because Chloe was anything but enthusiastic.

On 5/24/2018 at 12:08 AM, truthaboutluv said:

Clay is a classic only child spoiled brat. He doesn't talk to his parents, shuts his door on them any chance he gets but the fact is, he's essentially been their whole life since he's an only child. So while he'll gripe about them bugging him and being all up in his life, he resents someone else getting any of their attention because their attention has always solely been focused on him. 

He's really getting on my nerves lately. That last scene, when he looked into the living room and said something snippy and the stomped upstairs--fuck off, Clay. Your parents are doing you a major solid by taking in Justin (as Mom said, she could've been in huge trouble as an officer of the court). And poor Justin--he has his flaws but his context is quite tragic--do you really begrudge him this taste of normal family life? Fuck off, Clay.

On 5/28/2018 at 3:50 AM, BigDfromLA said:

The school lawyer is absolutely disgusting. Smug, arrogant, condescending. I think the way that she crucifies each of these kids would offend the jury, make them (justifiably) hate her and hurt her side's case. At least pretend to show a little compassion and sympathy for these kids as you cross examine them. That would go a long way in trying to convince the jury.

 

Skye should delete Clay's number from her phone. He needs to get off her back and let her recover and not call her every ten minutes. But Clay is too selfish for that.

The school's lawyer is making a strategic mistake, IMO. She herself comes off as a bully--forcing a girl to out herself? That smug demeanor? She could elicit the same testimony while appearing professional, regretful but ultimately believable. I doubt if a real-life jury would respond well to her approach.

WTF, Clay??? Let Skye recover in peace! She is not your tape recorder!

[truthaboutluv]

3 minutes ago, CeeBeeGee said:

He's really getting on my nerves lately. That last scene, when he looked into the living room and said something snippy and the stomped upstairs--fuck off, Clay. Your parents are doing you a major solid by taking in Justin (as Mom said, she could've been in huge trouble as an officer of the court). And poor Justin--he has his flaws but his context is quite tragic--do you really begrudge him this taste of normal family life? Fuck off, Clay.

As sad as Justin's life is and bratty though Clay may be, let's also remember that Justin was nothing but a complete asshole towards Clay for no reason and threatened his life numerous times in Season 1. This season clearly is all about redeeming Justin but I'm not ready to be all pissed at Clay that he isn't always the most heart warming towards Justin. 

[BaggythePanther]

On 5/22/2018 at 11:52 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Brenda Strong! aka Sue Ellen Mischke on Seinfeld and Mary Alice on Desperate Housewives (among other things, but those are the two I will always remember her for).

But yeah, that look she shot him was like "Uh, seriously?"

Correct me if I’m wrong (I haven’t watched a lot of Desperate Housewives) but didn’t the Mary Alice character commit suicide then narrate the episodes from beyond the grave?

I can’t decide if Tony being relegated to his own completely unrelated storyline is better or worse than being Clay’s guardian angel. He has more to do but I can’t remember the last time he interacted with someone in the main cast. And I don’t understand what was wrong last season because the show doesn’t seem to have a problem showing Tony make out with his new boyfriend this season.

[Anela]

I feel bad for Skye, but I don't like them together. I also don't like it when people grab each other like that in front of family like that. I'd be pissed if someone did that to me. 

So Hannah's parents split up? 

[Anela]

They were cute together, but it was too much for me. Last year, we see the note that she wrote, and her looking for understanding. Nothing about this, at all. She was rejected by so many people, and that was what did her in. I don't  buy this Summer love affair, at all. 

[truthaboutluv]

41 minutes ago, Anela said:

They were cute together, but it was too much for me. Last year, we see the note that she wrote, and her looking for understanding. Nothing about this, at all. She was rejected by so many people, and that was what did her in. I don't  buy this Summer love affair, at all. 

There's just too much that has to be rationalized for the whole thing to make sense and when you have to do that, then that's just bad storytelling. They could have shoehorned in some summer friendship that was previously not mentioned, even though that would still be a stretch. But it would definitely be slightly more believable than this whole sunlit days (to quote J.K. Rowling's awful writing of Harry/Ginny's lame romance), swoony love affair with never ending passionate and amazing sex that we were suddenly asked to buy. Because there is no way I can believe that that happened, then this girl later kills herself and leaves tapes calling out every person for the ways they played a part in her journey and this entire relationship is just ignored. I mean come on now. 

Edited June 8, 2018 by truthaboutluv

[RedheadZombie]

Does Skye somehow live on her own in that art studio?  She supports herself by working at a coffee shop?

I don't like the idea that Tony somehow hurt Hannah, but maybe it was just evidence that he was the holder of the tapes.  I've sort of forgotten Ryan's role.  Was he Tony's boyfriend?  How would he have access to Hannah's journal?

I sort of wish Bryce was written as a football player rather than baseball.  Rape seems to be perfectly acceptable for college football players and the NFL - not so much in MLB.

Not only is it completely unbelievable that Jessica would be flyer material, but when the biggest girl in the bunch objected by saying she was supposed to be the flyer . . .

I'm sure this season will be filled with red herrings, but it seems pretty significant that Olivia is bent on revenge as well as perfecting her shooting skills.

[RedheadZombie]

Where has Jessica been for five months, being homeschooled?  And how does she sashay in and still be on the cheerleading squad?  She was the weakest player on the team and they hold her spot?

[memememe76]

When Clay came back from his vacation, he did invite Hannah to Jessica's party. Maybe not truly outright, but it was still a big step for Clay. Had he stayed in town, he and Hannah probably would have worked together pretty much full time. 

I will forever be a Clannah. 

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/20/2018 at 12:08 AM, Lady Calypso said:

What surprised me completely was the beginning, when Chloe was in the stall and got out a Sharpie, and then Jessica showed up after her. I completely thought that Chloe was going to go into superdenial by writing some awful things about Jessica. Her crossing out those nasty things, however? That was good.

Very astute reading of the scene. I didn't realize what had happened until I read this post--then I went back and parsed it much more carefully. Interesting! Thanks for this post!

On 5/22/2018 at 11:18 AM, Empress1 said:

Bryce is almost cartoonish in his villainy, isn't he?

He is but, kids at that age are not exactly nuanced when it comes to displays like this: displays of power, of lover, whatever. He's a 17 yo meathead, he's not going to cite Machiavelli's The Prince, he's going to brag about Daddy's money.

On 5/25/2018 at 11:06 PM, NUguy514 said:

There was a point during the Clay/Skye scene where I fully yelled at my TV, "OH MY GOD, CLAY, IT IS NOT. ABOUT. YOU!!"  And then his decreeing to Alex and Justin that maybe Jessica's truth should come out now?  Nope, ick, gross, please go die in a fire, Nice Guy.

Tyler has lost me forever by shooting that bird.

FUCK TYLER. He is SHIT. Fuck people who murder animals* for sport and afterwards call their friends over to gawk. I despise him. He's a fucking Nice Guy, he's a stalker and a pervert and now he murders animals for sport. The fact that he was bullied doesn't mitigate this.

I was horrified when I saw that needle in Justin's arm. Oh my God. That was genuinely horrifying.

(And as obnoxious as Clay has been this season, I feel for him with all the puking that's been going on in his bedroom.)

 

 

*Plus I think that was a crow and they are super intelligent. They are really the coolest birds.

[Anela]

I don't like Clay, this season. It isn't up to him, when something comes out that's another person's secret, if it ever does come out. 

Yeah, enough with the puking, but I'm glad that Justin wasn't dead. I thought he was, at first. 

[Anela]

I was only half paying attention to this. I need to stop binge watching. 

I'm glad that someone called them out for being rapists, but setting fire to the grass bothered me. 

[lilly6]

For the longest time I thought/hoped that Chloe was totally onto Bryce and was playing him the whole time in order to trap him into some kind of confession.

That bathroom scene was one of the most jarring things I've ever seen on a TV screen.  The brutality was horrifying but realistically wouldn't he at the very least have suffered a concussion?  I was truly rooting for him to shoot a few people after that though.

I have never liked Hannah, and I liked her less after this season.   Bullying is about being an outcast.  She wasn't an outcast.  She was romantically or physically intimate with most of the people she felt had wronged her and over and over again tried to fit in with the jocks and the cheerleaders.  

There is bullying, and then there is criminally actionable assault.  Most of what this show focuses on involves the latter which isn't the norm.  

[mledawn]

On 6/4/2018 at 8:37 PM, cherenkov said:

I don't find it realistic at all. I have actually found a lot of the "me too" to be overblown. The fact that the show turned it into literally every female character came off as preachy, unrealistic, and bullshit to me.

Because the reality is that Angela is correctly stating that not every instance of being hit on is harassment and Brian over blew it because he was a white knight "nice guy". The entire show went off the rails with me with the "every female is a victim" thing. I find that outright insulting.

I am genuinely happy your experience in life is that it's unrealistic and bullshit, because I'll tell you from my real and actual experiences it's fucking tiresome and exasperating (at the very least) to deal with. I would definitely love to be in the happy minority who has never even been harassed by a man (or boy). The #metoo movement has shown that it is the reality for far too many women, myself (and many women I know) included.

This season jumped the shark for me for other reasons, though. It did have the feeling of an r-rated, bad afterschool special. I am not really sure how they'll salvage the third season at this point as it seems to be pretty well telegraphed.

[rue721]

I hate how this show became all about the boys and the female characters (and their relationships with each other) were shunted to the side. I hope that changes significantly next season, if there is a next season.

Even though I thought that Bryce's extremely light "sentencing" -- and how the judge victim-blamed Jessica even while giving his verdict -- was maddening, I liked it in that I found it realistic.

I also liked Justin's reactions to Bryce. Even though he was willing to go so far as to get himself in legal trouble in order to tell the truth about Bryce, Bryce apparently still has a pretty strong (emotional) hold over him, given how upset Justin got when Bryce called him "brother" at the dance. I think it makes sense that Justin would still have a lot of strong feelings, too, given how important Bryce was in his life. Without Bryce, Justin's life would really have been unbearable.

In general, I thought Justin's "redemption" was way too heavy-handed, but I also thought that it was one of the better storylines in the season. (go figure!) I really felt for him when Clay asked if he wanted to be adopted and he started crying -- but at the same time, as soon as Clay said that he was OK with the adoption partly because Justin was clean, I knew Justin would start using heroin again. He's going to try and sabotage this because he's right, he is pretty screwed up. Also, maybe Justin isn't worried (?), but I am terrified for his mother! Meth Seth is apparently around, but his mother isn't? Hopefully she took Justin's advice and went into hiding with the like $40 he gave her a few episodes back, but it really seemed like that wasn't her plan. Hopefully she's OK. I also don't see how Justin can be adopted when she still has parental rights, but maybe even declaring the intention to adopt gives the Jensens the ability to have Justin home with them as a foster child? The whole thing is kind of screwy IMO but I guess it ultimately doesn't matter much.

I agree with the posters who say that Taylor's assault was so violent that the possible medical/physical repercussions seemed to overshadow the emotional ones. I wasn't that focused on how he was feeling afterward because I was just like, "go to the ER, now!" I wish they had toned down the physical assault so that the focus wasn't on "how is he alive?!" it was on "how is he feeling?"

Clay talking Taylor down at the dance irritated me, but Clay generally irritates me, so that's nothing new. I find the Jensen family as a whole fairly interesting, but partly because Clay is a self-important brat there, too, and his parents are apparently trying to coddle him and ignore his outbursts/weirdness until it goes away (similar to Taylor's parents struggling to deal with him, I guess -- although at least Taylor is generally polite to them). Clay's BFF, Ghost!Hannah, was not only not working for me, but at a point I even started wondering whether Clay was straight up hallucinating her and whether he's ill. He's taken her death harder than even her parents have, and him sobbing in that group hug at the dance was too much. He and Hannah weren't even that close. Oh, but one thing that I thought was funny was when Justin was watching Clay talk Taylor down and then asked, "this is fucked up, right?!" like he actually wanted an answer. Given that, I get why he didn't tell anybody that Clay had gone to Bryce's house with a gun and threatened a murder-suicide (pretty credibly, too!) -- Justin's perspective is clearly out of whack. But honestly, he should have gone to at least the Jensens about it, similar to how Cyrus went to the school when he saw that Taylor was unstable and a threat. I mean, yes, Justin, it is SUPREMELY fucked up for someone to be waving a gun around threatening to murder people and kill himself. That's something it's worth sounding the alarm on.

The only other storyline I cared about was Jessica's, but I felt like it was way too underdeveloped. There were some really powerful moments (when Jessica was bonding with each of her parents, at the group therapy sessions, at the court), but it was less than the sum of its parts. Nina doesn't feel fleshed out at all as a character, so her and Jessica's friendship always felt "off." (Hopefully Nina will get her own storyline next season and that will make her actions and relationships make more sense). I also didn't really buy the issue between Jessica and Chloe, because Chloe seems to feel some kind of sisterly kinship/competition thing with Jessica that IMO came out of nowhere considering they were never apparently friends previously.

I also don't in a million years believe that Jessica would go into the boys' locker room or the athletic storage room or whatever that was and almost immediately strip down and fuck Justin (while her own boyfriend hangs out with all her friends in the gym next door). That's crazier than anything that Skye ever did while manic, and Skye went to in-patient treatment for months after her manic episode -- and Jessica is if anything generally too sensible rather than too impulsive. I actually thought it was some kind of drug trip that Justin imagined, until the show made it clear that Jessica had actually stepped away from the dance for a while and was refreshing herself in the restroom.

The character that I thought was done the most disservice this season, though, was Sheri. Hopefully it was just that the actress wasn't available, because she really should have been a much bigger part of the season. Although I think the problem wasn't just the actress's availability in any case, because the moments when the show brought her in were also weird and confusing. She just shows up like magic when Justin is having withdrawals, with talk about all her "roommates" in juvy? And then disappears again? I dunno.

Marcus was gross and I wasn't that sad to see him go, but it was bizarre that he vanished, too.

Monty was intriguing at the end there when he suddenly went batshit, but I had him confused with Scott for practically the whole season, so I can't really say anything about either of their storylines.

I've come to really dislike Alex, and I thought that all of Zach's relationships (including with Alex) felt too forced/contrived for me to take seriously.

If there's a third season, I'll probably watch. But this show is weird in that it's addictive to binge and I do feel invested in at least some of the characters, but at the same time, I find it pretty frustrating and contrived, too -- especially when it comes to how the show deals with sexism and misogyny. I think that a lot of the time when the show is trying to comment on sexism and misogyny in a self-aware way, it devolves into just perpetuating it. Like in the way that this season focused so much on the male characters and their relationships and on what sports/school means to them and their dreams -- while treating the female characters as accessories.

[Anela]

In my school, the teachers knew what was happening, but when I went in with my mother, after dropping out, to talk to the head of year, she said they would never do that sort of thing (the kids I named), and that I should see a therapist. Mum dragged me out of there, saying I never had to go back. Other girls were beaten up. One girl came to school covered in bruises, and it was all because the boyfriend of one of the bullies had looked at her approvingly. 

This episode annoyed me, because the one person from the school who feels guilty, is the one that got fired. 

I liked the kids all being there for Jess, and hope that Justin can get a decent lawyer. 

Tyler and those guns... I remember people predicting a school shooting, and he seems to be heading in that direction. 

Loved Bryce being arrested in front of the press. 

[Anela]

3 MONTHS PROBATION???

Poor Tyler. :( Still bleeding from his assault. God, something needs to happen to the rapists on this show! Although it wasn't unrealistic, I guess - I remember that one guy in the news, who only got three months, I think it was, after raping a girl. And his parents were bothered that he'd lost his appetite for barbeque, or something? WTF? 

I'm still watching the last episode. I don't think I'll watch season three, but I also had no plans to watch this season, so...

Edited June 11, 2018 by Anela

[Anela]

On 6/4/2018 at 8:37 PM, cherenkov said:

I don't find it realistic at all. I have actually found a lot of the "me too" to be overblown. The fact that the show turned it into literally every female character came off as preachy, unrealistic, and bullshit to me.

Because the reality is that Angela is correctly stating that not every instance of being hit on is harassment and Brian over blew it because he was a white knight "nice guy". The entire show went off the rails with me with the "every female is a victim" thing. I find that outright insulting.

How fortunate for you. Almost every woman I know - myself included - has had more than one encounter.  Bad ones, quote often. 

Okay, I'm out, with a decent guy being referred to as a "white knight". 

On 6/9/2018 at 11:02 PM, mledawn said:

I am genuinely happy your experience in life is that it's unrealistic and bullshit, because I'll tell you from my real and actual experiences it's fucking tiresome and exasperating (at the very least) to deal with. I would definitely love to be in the happy minority who has never even been harassed by a man (or boy). The #metoo movement has shown that it is the reality for far too many women, myself (and many women I know) included.

 

Same. 

Edited June 11, 2018 by Anela

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/22/2018 at 1:27 PM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

While I totally agree that Tony needed that anger management class, it's hard for me to sympathize with the "victim" who called him the F word. FUCK THAT GUY.

I know that some people will think that Sheri's smackdown of Clay was too on the nose, but she was on the money. If you're going to blame the girls for going there and "getting themselves into these situations," you should ask yourself why you aren't blaming the guys for assaulting them. I mean, seriously, Clay. The next thing you know, you'll be blaming them for what they were wearing too. That's like saying Tony deserved to be called the F word because he was dumb enough to show any affection for his boyfriend in public.

Anyone who walks past a gay couple and uses that word deserves a beating. The guy probably figured he had nothing to be afraid of--they're just a couple of pansies, right? Tony was not having it.

And WTF, Clay? Did you "get yourself in the situation" of being beaten up? No, they chose to do so. Rapists choose to rape. It's not something that just happens inevitably.

Porter is going rogue, I love it. The principal warned him to have no contact with students but he knew Justin needed help and advice.

In color-me-shocked news, Tyler is again a flaming asshole. I rather like Cyrus and am glad he stood up for his sister. Tyler, you stupid shit, you should God on your knees someone as nice and cute as Mackenzie bothered to talk to you, much less show interest in you. How dare you humiliate her like that?

[CeeBeeGee]

On 5/21/2018 at 9:18 PM, starri said:

Alex using his cane to whale on Montgomery and/or Scott was to date the highlight of the season.

Yes! I straight up cheered when Alex BROKE his cane on the dude. Way to step up!

 

On 5/26/2018 at 2:20 AM, NUguy514 said:

Courtney rolling her eyes, pulling the fire alarm, and walking away was the best.

Loved it!

On 5/31/2018 at 3:17 AM, BigDfromLA said:

I have always thought Tyler was a creepy, disgusting idiot from day one. He has this girl who is out of his league actually interested in him, and he not only rejects her, but treats her like crap? What's wrong with this guy? He obviously needs therapy. 

In general I am not crazy about the term "out if his league" but it really does apply here. Tyler, Mackenzie is cute, aware, friendly--she is indeed way out of your league. You did nothing wrong, sweetie, and you are way too good for him.

 

They are giving Bryce the Owen Labrie treatment (prep school lacrosse player whose mug shut showed him as the jockstrap rapist he was, but showed up for the trial looking like Harry Potter, complete with dyed brown hair and glasses).

"Can't he just...be those things?" Mom knows what's up.

No effing way Monty--ass-kissing Monty--is able to take down Zach. Zach has at least 3-4 inches on him.

Oh my fucking GOD HOW STUPID ARE YOU CLAY??????? You left the box in the back seat of your car?!?!

"Real power" oh shut the fuck up, Tyler. Just shut it. Only a weenis confuses guns with power.

Bryce playing the Poor Little Rich Boy card. Good for Mom for calling him on his shit.

The single most disturbing image of this scene is that tracking shot down to Bryce's erection as he remembers raping Hannah. Jesus.

[OnceSane]

No politics, please.  This is not the place to debate #metoo or for any political commentary.  Keep it to the show.  Thanks.

[cherenkov]

The show's portrayal of every single woman as a victim is unrealistic and sends a terrible message.

[cherenkov]

15 minutes ago, GayAsFuck said:

It really isn't. Rape is something that happens everywhere (not just TO women, and not just by MALE rapists). Just because it may not be your experience doesn't mean that it's non-existent. Or unrealistic for that matter. The show could actually have some sort of impact (not getting into the details of such politics) in regards to rape and rape culture. It happens in homes, in schools, in the workplace, in alleys, etc. Nothing about shedding some light on any of these facts sends a terrible message. They may have gone overboard with the visuals at times, but I unfortunately have no reason to doubt that the scene where the women on the show came forward about their experiences with rape could have just as easily reflected a real life situation. 

You don't see it as unrealistic that every woman in this supposedly typical town in California is a victim of sexual assault? That portrayal by the show puts it beyond a realistic depiction, to me. This is not a show set in Sudan, Somalia, or Serbia during wars in which rape was (and is) used as a weapon. This is supposedly a contemporary town in California. That whole montage came across to me as nothing more than preachy, forced, and fantasy. If this is what the show is going to be going forward, I don't know how much more I can watch. There a ways to tackle the topic without the extremely hyperbolic "every woman" statement. Focusing on Bryce's crimes, the victims that he attacked (Hannah, Chloe, Jessica and Tyler) could easily do that justice and then some. There's not one female character I can point to on the show that stands out as a strong or empowered person.

The made-for-TV movie Shame did it far better, and that was 26 years ago.

[CeeBeeGee]

Baby Bryce is empathetic, kind and tactful. Too bad he grew up into a monster.

It's nice to see a family that is a good blend of loving and communicative, that discusses past mistakes and ways to move forward. So many TV families are over-dramatic.

Justin and Hannah are adorable together. God, is there anyone with whom she doesn't have insane chemistry? Even Bryce was charming and un-thuggish with her.

Freeze the screen at 19:23, when the coach is scolding Bryce. There are a couple of angles around that time where he looks EX-ACT-LY like an older Bryce--same nose, same cheeks. Which I guess is appropriate since the coach is likely more of a father figure than Bryce's own dad.

The kid playing Justin is NAILING his courtroom scene. Just beautiful, heartfelt acting. Is this series eligible for Emmy Awards? He and Derek Luke are good enough for them.

Sonya makes me want to punch her smug face right through the screen.

I think it's really cool that Cyrus and his sister talk to a therapist.  Tyler is (as always) a POS for mocking that. Tyler, nothing says "punk rock" like a guy in a sweater being hustled away by his clueless parents. You're not exactly Sid Vicious.

I love how one by one, Not-a-Rapist Jock (Scott?), Clay, Zach and Tony step forth and Monty's bravado is intact but when Alex limps forward on his cane--shit just got REAL.

 

On 5/23/2018 at 5:34 AM, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Loved that Alex's dad perp walked Bryce during the press conference so that everyone got to see it. Justin just broke my heart. He knew he would be arrested as an accessory and he testified anyway. Even if he ends up not being convicted, now he's in the system and there's no way that he will be able to avoid going into the foster system.

ETA: I totally forgot to mention that I clapped when I saw Scott was sitting with Clay et al when the verdict was read. Another defector from the baseball team!

That's a total dick move, Alex's dad--and I loved it. Well played.

Justin has incredible courage to risk himself like that. I doubt he'll even go to trial, his testimony is too important--he'll get a plea bargain.

Welcome to the team, Scott! Well-spotted, ElectricBoogaloo.

On 5/26/2018 at 3:21 AM, NUguy514 said:

Seeing Bryce handcuffed in front of everyone was satisfying.  I can't imagine his threatening Jessica in front of multiple witnesses was a great idea on his part, which: good.

Jesus, that was a dumb move.

[OrigamiNightmare]

4 hours ago, cherenkov said:

You don't see it as unrealistic that every woman in this supposedly typical town in California is a victim of sexual assault? That portrayal by the show puts it beyond a realistic depiction, to me. This is not a show set in Sudan, Somalia, or Serbia during wars in which rape was (and is) used as a weapon. This is supposedly a contemporary town in California. That whole montage came across to me as nothing more than preachy, forced, and fantasy. If this is what the show is going to be going forward, I don't know how much more I can watch. There a ways to tackle the topic without the extremely hyperbolic "every woman" statement. Focusing on Bryce's crimes, the victims that he attacked (Hannah, Chloe, Jessica and Tyler) could easily do that justice and then some. There's not one female character I can point to on the show that stands out as a strong or empowered person.

The made-for-TV movie Shame did it far better, and that was 26 years ago.

I really don't see it as unrealistic. Given my own experiences. Opps wrong person! Sorry

Edited June 13, 2018 by OrigamiNightmare

[mledawn]

5 hours ago, cherenkov said:

Bla bla bla fishcakes

Jessica showed immense strength to bring charges against Bryce and testify in court in the face of his popularity, his money, his friends, his coach, and the system that is poorly equipped to deal with survivors.

Equating sexual assault with war-torn and third world countries is a gross misunderstanding of the ubiquity of sexual assault.

• In Canada, it is estimated that 1 in 3 women will experience some form of sexual assault in her lifetime.
• In the United States, 1 in 5 women will be raped at some point in their lives.
• 60% of college-aged men said they would commit sexual assault if they knew they would not get caught.
• Over 60% of college-aged men who self reported non-consensual sexual activity admitted to doing it repeatedly. 

That's just the male-on-female sexual assault statistics.

That's just those women who come forward as survivors.

That's just the men who admit what they would do, or what they have done.

It is most definitely not fantasy.

[CeeBeeGee]

And yet another icon of Broadway musicals appears in this show--first Brian D'Arcy James, of Titanic and Shrek (in fact a dear friend of mine appeared with him on Shrek), Kelli O'Hara star of a million shows, and now Anthony Rapp, famous for Rent.

Did I miss something? Alex and Jessica are kind-of dating? I thought he discovered he was gay when he and Zach were wrestling and he got a hard-on..

Awww (Clay's getting a brother! Justin's getting a home!). And....ohhhh, shit. (Justin's got a stalker.)

Monty, you're pathetic. "Tell me what you want me to do"? Grovel some more, why don't you?

JESUS WHAT THE FUCK

Jesus. JESUS. That is fucking horrific. I don't like Tyler and at first I assumed he was mouthing all the right responses but he did seem sincere when he was talking to Monty in the bathroom. That is absolutely tragic.

WHY IS THIS SHOW DOING THIS TO ME? Justin, NO! Put that shit down!

Jesus, I can't believe Tyler was able to lie so convincingly to the mother. He must have been in incredible pain. Jesus.

What is up with the redemption arc of Bryce? Dude's a rapist. Come on.

The cluster of love and comfort in the middle of the dance floor, when one by one each of Hannah's friends wordlessly came to Clay, is lovely.

"Don't call the police"??? What the fuck, Clay?!

That said he has balls of steel to try to talk down Tyler. I am glad a massacre didn't actually happen, but that seems more soapy than realistic.

 

On 5/21/2018 at 4:06 PM, amazinglybored said:

Clay talking down a school shooter and then helping him escape. That message should never be sent.

The humanization of and attempts to gain sympathy for a school shooter.

Yes! Extremely dangerous message to send. It's been disproven over and over (read Dave Cullen's book Columbine for more on this) that most school shooters are not victims of bullying--that more often than not, they are the bullies. 

 

On 6/9/2018 at 11:02 PM, mledawn said:

I am genuinely happy your experience in life is that it's unrealistic and bullshit, because I'll tell you from my real and actual experiences it's fucking tiresome and exasperating (at the very least) to deal with. I would definitely love to be in the happy minority who has never even been harassed by a man (or boy). The #metoo movement has shown that it is the reality for far too many women, myself (and many women I know) included.

I loved the #metoo montage at Bryce's sentencing, thought it was very well done. One of the themes of this show is rape culture and misogyny--how little things, casual misogyny and sexism, leads to greater offenses like Bryce and Marcus grabbing Hannah, which lead to rape. All the little things are winked at/normalized--it's all part of a spectrum.