S36.E12: A Giant Game of Bumper Cars

[violet and green]

1 hour ago, healthnut said:

Chelsea said in her exit press she intended to take Laurel to FTC because she believed she could beat her. Says Laurel was very passive, wasn’t involved in strategy (in her opinion anyway), and “was attached to Wendell at the hip”.

Oh, she's an idiot. Laurel sits in the Naviti women's strategy talks and plays docile and passive and a bit lamb-brained because she doesn't want to make it clear she's not actually with them at all.

I'm so glad Chelsea's gone!

Wendell going out with an idol in his pocket wouldn't have been too bad, or Kellyn stomping off pouting, ditto - but I don't want to watch Chelsea win any more immunities and she adds nothing to the season, plus it will piss Kellyn right off.

[Ms Blue Jay]

Oh my goddddd I just watched the beginning of the episode.  My PVR didn't capture it, so when I started the episode, the family visits were just ending.

Donathan totally broke my heart!  Donathan and his Aunt Patty!  OH mannnnnnnnnn.  Now I have to love him forever. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by Ms Blue Jay

[MissEwa]

From Chelsea's interview with Gordon Holmes:

Quote

Townsend: I was aware that they both had idols. I knew the second Dom found his because he came up to me and said, “I found an idol.” (Laughs)

I don't not believe her, but this baffles me. Maybe it was the edit, but they had no back-up plan. They didn't even seem to be trying for a blindside. We didn't get any shots of any of the 3 Naviti women trying to convince Dom and Wendell that the target was Sebastian or to get them to vote Donathan/Laurel so if there was an idol it wouldn't bounce back onto one of them. If they had got Donathan and Laurel onside, were they really basing their entire play on Wendell just... not playing his idol (I know he didn't but that was a HELL of a gamble to take)? 

[LanceM]

4 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

From Chelsea's interview with Gordon Holmes:

I don't not believe her, but this baffles me. Maybe it was the edit, but they had no back-up plan. They didn't even seem to be trying for a blindside. We didn't get any shots of any of the 3 Naviti women trying to convince Dom and Wendell that the target was Sebastian or to get them to vote Donathan/Laurel so if there was an idol it wouldn't bounce back onto one of them. If they had got Donathan and Laurel onside, were they really basing their entire play on Wendell just... not playing his idol (I know he didn't but that was a HELL of a gamble to take)? 

I say its the editing which in my opinion has been pretty bad the last few seasons in terms of letting us know what the strategy is for certain votes.  I don't believe for a second that none of them talked to Dom and Wendell or Sebastian for that matter..

[Oscirus]

12 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

From Chelsea's interview with Gordon Holmes:

I don't not believe her, but this baffles me. Maybe it was the edit, but they had no back-up plan. They didn't even seem to be trying for a blindside. We didn't get any shots of any of the 3 Naviti women trying to convince Dom and Wendell that the target was Sebastian or to get them to vote Donathan/Laurel so if there was an idol it wouldn't bounce back onto one of them. If they had got Donathan and Laurel onside, were they really basing their entire play on Wendell just... not playing his idol (I know he didn't but that was a HELL of a gamble to take)? 

I assume both sides were lying to each other about being naviti strong so the pitched boot was likely either Laurel or Don. The ladies so as to not  tip off the guys to use their idols, the guys to continue working from the shadows for one more boot.

[MissEwa]

11 minutes ago, LanceM said:

I say its the editing which in my opinion has been pretty bad the last few seasons in terms of letting us know what the strategy is for certain votes.  I don't believe for a second that none of them talked to Dom and Wendell or Sebastian for that matter..

 

3 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

I assume both sides were lying to each other about being naviti strong so the pitched boot was likely either Laurel or Don. The ladies so as to not  tip off the guys to use their idols, the guys to continue working from the shadows for one more boot.

This makes sense as what they should have done, but the focus the entire time seemed to be 100% about whether the girls had the numbers, like... to a point where it doesn't even seem possible that it could have *just* been the edit. I may not have been paying attention but I didn't hear (drink!) Naviti Strong come up at all at TC. The whole focus seemed to be on Donathan and Laurel - not as the almost-certain next targets, but as swing votes. If they were trying to bluff Dom and Wendell into thinking it was Donathan or Laurel, surely they would have just brought it back to Naviti strong over and over and over? I don't know. Maybe I have to watch it again. 

[LanceM]

For the record Chelsea stated in an interview that she told Dom and Wendell that she was voting for Donathon. I can only assume that Kellyn and Angela were saying the same thing as well.

[Oscirus]

45 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

 

This makes sense as what they should have done, but the focus the entire time seemed to be 100% about whether the girls had the numbers, like... to a point where it doesn't even seem possible that it could have *just* been the edit. I may not have been paying attention but I didn't hear (drink!) Naviti Strong come up at all at TC. The whole focus seemed to be on Donathan and Laurel - not as the almost-certain next targets, but as swing votes. If they were trying to bluff Dom and Wendell into thinking it was Donathan or Laurel, surely they would have just brought it back to Naviti strong over and over and over? I don't know. Maybe I have to watch it again. 

Editing wise they tend to show the boot and the alternate boot, since nobody wrote down Donathon or Laurel's name, those particular discussions didn't have to be shown. As to why they ignored naviti strong at tribal, after Don pulled his shenanigans, all pretense of Naviti strong was gone.

Edited May 11, 2018 by Oscirus

[MissEwa]

Yeah, there had to be more to it than we were shown.

4 minutes ago, Oscirus said:

Editing wise they tend to show the boot and the alternate boot, since nobody wrote down Donathon or Laurel's name, those particular discussions didn't have to be shown.

Except it's not like the editing showed Chelsea either (not a problem unique to this episode, I know). The story of this episode was never 'Will it be Wendell or Chelsea?', it was 'Will Wendell prevail?' That it was Chelsea who went home was much less relevant to the narrative than the fact that it wasn't Wendell. And they often show people's names being thrown out as targets and that person not getting any votes.

It just seems weird to me that the whole idol-counteracting part of their plan was *so* roundly ignored by the edit, that's all. I can't remember the last time we didn't at least get a ten-second 'what if he has an idol?' conversation.

[Oscirus]

52 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

Yeah, there had to be more to it than we were shown.

Except it's not like the editing showed Chelsea either (not a problem unique to this episode, I know). The story of this episode was never 'Will it be Wendell or Chelsea?', it was 'Will Wendell prevail?' That it was Chelsea who went home was much less relevant to the narrative than the fact that it wasn't Wendell. And they often show people's names being thrown out as targets and that person not getting any votes.

It just seems weird to me that the whole idol-counteracting part of their plan was *so* roundly ignored by the edit, that's all. I can't remember the last time we didn't at least get a ten-second 'what if he has an idol?' conversation.

True the story was whether or not they could get Wendell because that was the more compelling story arc, however,  Chelsea was presented as the alt boot.  I will agree that it is interesting that they've not shown that everybody knows about Wendell's idol despite every single castaway interviewed saying they knew about it.

[30 Helens]

9 hours ago, Omeletsmom said:

We always called it the Walk of Dead Survivors.

I also miss the cheesiness that was the Walk of Dead Survivors. Along with Jeff cutting through the jungle with a machete, flying in on a chopper, riding on the back of an alligator, whatever.  It was eyeroll-inducing, but it was fun.

According to Dalton Ross in Entertainment Weekly, Chelsea was not shown much because she didn’t give good interview. Not animated or cocky enough, I guess, which makes me think I would like her. 

[Kelda Feegle]

At this point I am just wondering how long it would take Sebastian to smoke the money if he just surfslides his way to the finale and wins.

[RedheadZombie]

14 hours ago, Bryce Lynch said:

I don't know.  I think  he was play acting trying to convince Kellyn and her girls that they didn't need to use an idol on Chelsea or anyone else, in case they had one.  IMO, if Wendell was not 100% (or as close as you can get) sure that Donathon was putting on a show for Kellyn and his crew, I think:

a) Wendell would have used his idol.

b) Donothan is an idiot for alienating himself from Wendell and the alliance while voting with them.  

I also noticed that Dom seemed fine with Wendell not using his idol.  There must have been a great deal we didn't see.

[4N6MAL]

On 5/9/2018 at 9:06 PM, PaperTree said:

"shooken" Dom?  No.

THIS! Love, love, love!

[Special K]

The family visits are interesting to me, because they reveal something about the contestants.  I don't care either way about the bawling, but I think you do learn about someone from their loved one and, perhaps more importantly, the contestants learn about each other, just by seeing/meeting the loved ones.

Having said that, I felt for Mrs. Dom.  I am definitely the opposite of her, like I hardly ever want to talk to my loved ones :), but I felt bad for her.  We don't know how complicated or difficult her life is without her husband to help her.   Maybe she has a medical condition.  Maybe she's caring for special needs kids or elderly parents.  Maybe they have financial troubles.  Who knows?

I think Laurel is a smart player, but I think given how everything has played out up til now, she is just boxed in.  She believes, probably correctly, that the other women will dispatch her quickly (Naviti strong, after all), but I think she realizes ruefully that she can't win against Wendell or Dom.  Unless, of course, something screwy happens with the fire making challenge for FTC.

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Special K said:

We don't know how complicated or difficult her life is without her husband to help her.   Maybe she has a medical condition.  Maybe she's caring for special needs kids or elderly parents.  Maybe they have financial troubles.  Who knows?

Good point.  But I think the show would exploit anything truly difficult for them and we'd be hearing about it in confessionals at least.  Though they didn't with Zeke, which shocked me, so maybe not.  

[Special K]

1 hour ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Good point.  But I think the show would exploit anything truly difficult for them and we'd be hearing about it in confessionals at least.  Though they didn't with Zeke, which shocked me, so maybe not.  

I think the producers made a deal with Zeke not to reveal his history until/unless he decided to.  Who knows how often such deals are made for privacy?

[Lunula]

I honestly don't know why the women didn't band together to get Sebastian out. First, the guy does absolutely nothing. Second, he snubbed every single woman last night - twice. Not only could he not stoop so low as to choose even one woman to go on the reward, but then he also gives his boys first choice to go to Ghost Island. Seriously? I understand Dom & Wendell are bigger threats - but had they banded together against Sebastian, I think they would've been successful. Would Laurel and Donathan care if Sebastian went home? 

It makes me sad every season to see that women seem incapable of alliances with one another. The men stick together, it's a boys club where women are typically fodder. Sometimes we have a woman who is truly "in" the boys club - but women on this show pretty much always turn against each other. They pick off the other women while the bigger threats go untouched. I don't get it. 

On a side note, I like Donathan, but he's not playing a very smart game. The cockiness last week when he used his idol and his arrogance again tonight after that ill-advised outburst...c'mon, man. Get it together. 

[KimberStormer]

Ah the family visit where everyone's marriage is deeply unhealthy and every brother and sister must be Lannisters.

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 4:58 AM, ProfCrash said:

Why would Donathon and Laurel flip and vote out Wendell. Kellyn, Chelsea and Sea Bass have been Naviti Strong all game long. Angela was approached to flip the script and work with Malolo and she chose the stick with Naviti. So why would Donathon and Laurel believe that they could go further with a fourseome that has been playing a game solely based on voting out Malolo? Laurel and Donathon would move from an alliance where they are guaranteed the final four for an alliance where they make the final six. That would be amazingly stupid game play.

 

23 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Laurel needed someone to give her a reason to leave Wendell and the mixed alliance. No one gave her one, at least that we have seen. No one has said in interviews that they offered her a final three deal and that she rejected it. Donathon has thought about targeting Dom and Wendell but we have not seen anyone give him or Laurel a good reason to flip.

So why the do people think that it is a good idea to flip from a final four, and a shot at final tribal, to a lesser position? Chelsea, Kellyn and Angela were not likely to take Laurel to the final four. Donathon would be a better goat. The Naviti Strong folks were not interested in changing things up or if they were, we never saw.

This expectation that Laurel and Donathon would be better off taking a risk that might lead them to the fifth and sixth position instead of a shot at the finals is crazy. And given the number of times that the Malolo's who were not Laurel and Donathon voted for each other, is pretty darn high.

If some one cam outline a path to the finals for Laurel that does not involve Dom and Wendell and does not rely on winning out with individual immunity, I would love to see it. As I see it, Laurel and Donathon were at the bottom of Maolo and the Naviti Strong hive mind didn't leave room for alliances outside of Dom and Wendell. It is more then possible that I missed something but so far I have yet to see a good reason for them to leave the Mixed Alliance.

I suppose it depends on what you're playing for.  In my opinion, the only thing to play for is to win.  If you're playing to win, then a 1% chance to make it to the end with a 30% chance to win there is better than a 100% chance to get to the end and a 0% chance to win.  Why get to the finals?  Why even bother?  If you don't want to win, why not go get yourself the ultimate Reward, a trip to Ponderosa, where you can eat and be happy and read books and listen to music and you still have some function in the game because you get to vote?

Every season people say stuff like this and I find it a bizarre understanding of the game to say if you flip you're now suddenly forced to be a passive nonentity along for the ride who does whatever the alliance you flipped to say, so now you're 6th.  Especially if there's two of you.  Who gives a fuck what people offer you?  They're not offering shit, you are.  You can do the favors, not them.  You're a subject, not an object.  You don't stop playing after you make one move.  You keep playing.  So here's a path: you vote out Wendell this time, Chelsea next time (perhaps flush Dom's idol), then Kellyn, then Dom, then Sebastian and Angela make fire for fourth because this is stupid fake Give-Ben-A-Million-For-No-Reason Survivor.  Difficult and risky?  Of course.  Maybe Dom will get back together with Kellyn and the Naviti girls to vote you out.  Well, that's your entire task in the game of Survivor, to get people to vote with you instead of agaisnt you.  Don't cry about it to me.  Go do it.  Maybe you'll fail.  Better to fail while trying to win than to fail anyway after not trying to win.

People like Laurel, or Sherri in Caramoan, or whoever, think there's an argument to be made that "Well I was on the losing tribe and I had to do something to not get voted out so I attached myself to the power players I'm sitting next to, I did what I had to do" but that is not, and never will be, a winning argument.  Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.  All you're saying is you were the pawn who let the winner ruin everyone else's game, out of self-interest that is both naked and also totally pointless because, again, getting to the end without trying to win is literally nothing but being miserable for longer for no reason.  If you're Amanda or whoever, and have played the best game you can and you don't win, well, that's not so bad.  But to be a passive coattail rider just for the privilege of getting insulted by the jury is nothing I would want to do.

20 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Didn't she also say she doesn't trust the girls and does trust the guys?  That matters.  

Sure but who cares about trust really?  I always think trust is overrated on Survivor.  If they need you you don't need to trust them.  Make them need you.

On ‎5‎/‎10‎/‎2018 at 7:01 AM, SevenCostanza said:

I agree.  I'm so glad they stopped that stupid "remembrance walk of past survivors" they used to do before the finale.

I always liked that part, because it gave the finale a sense of scale to me.  Oh yeah, they really have been out here for a long time, and wow, they made it through a lot of votes!

[30 Helens]

9 minutes ago, KimberStormer said:

I suppose it depends on what you're playing for.  In my opinion, the only thing to play for is to win.  If you're playing to win, then a 1% chance to make it to the end with a 30% chance to win there is better than a 100% chance to get to the end and a 0% chance to win.  Why get to the finals?  Why even bother?

Players do receive more money the longer they stay in the game.  It’s been a long time since I read about the prize amounts, but IIRC the difference between 1st/2nd runner-up and jury member is significant.  That said, I agree that playing to win should be the primary strategy.

[Guest]

The way I see it is we see maybe .005% of what went on out there and they see a LOT more, though a different set, but their info is unedited for story value and they know these people, which is priceless.  If Laurel feels her best odds are with Dom/Wen/Don, who am I to say I know better?  (Though in this case I think it is her best odds.)  

I don't recall any prior season comments about weird spousal dynamics on visit day.  Usually, spouses seem perfectly normal to me.  

Edited May 11, 2018 by Guest

[meep.meep]

16 hours ago, MissEwa said:

It just seems weird to me that the whole idol-counteracting part of their plan was *so* roundly ignored by the edit, that's all. I can't remember the last time we didn't at least get a ten-second 'what if he has an idol?' conversation.

Maybe because they don't have enough numbers to even split a vote?  It does seem like the Naviti women gave up on Sebastian after he picked only guys to go on the reward.  Has there ever been a suggestion that he was voting with Dom and Wendell?

[Eolivet]

1 hour ago, KimberStormer said:

People like Laurel, or Sherri in Caramoan, or whoever, think there's an argument to be made that "Well I was on the losing tribe and I had to do something to not get voted out so I attached myself to the power players I'm sitting next to, I did what I had to do" but that is not, and never will be, a winning argument.  Never, ever, ever, ever, ever.  All you're saying is you were the pawn who let the winner ruin everyone else's game, out of self-interest that is both naked and also totally pointless because, again, getting to the end without trying to win is literally nothing but being miserable for longer for no reason. 

I always think people who use that argument have a tacit "and they were bigger jerks to you than I was, so I didn't really betray you -- they did" attached to the end of it. I don't know if this applies to all non-power players or just those on losing tribes. But I think everyone who does this is secretly hoping to be the next Amber on All Stars or Natalie White on Samoa -- the "they betrayed you, not me (and they're a bigger jerk than I am)" argument. Granted, the "they betrayed you, not me" argument has held less sway in recent years, but I do feel like it's still a thing for some people.

I prefer that argument over the delusions of someone like Ryan last year -- "I was secretly in control, you just never knew it" -- or a total punt like Troyzan in Game Changers -- "I'm just a wild and crazy guy!" Own your role and spin it. Maybe it will work.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I suppose it depends on what you're playing for.  In my opinion, the only thing to play for is to win.  If you're playing to win, then a 1% chance to make it to the end with a 30% chance to win there is better than a 100% chance to get to the end and a 0% chance to win.  Why get to the finals?  Why even bother?  If you don't want to win, why not go get yourself the ultimate Reward, a trip to Ponderosa, where you can eat and be happy and read books and listen to music and you still have some function in the game because you get to vote?

I agree with this, but also I do understand why people might just wanna get to F3 even if they can't win simply because then they'll get more money. I think if there comes a point where you recognize you can not win then it might be the best plan to just do what's gonna get you the most money possible.

But Laurel could possibly still win, but she has to make a move against Wendell/Dom for that to happen and she is too scared to make it. And I get it, it's scary, but I think I'd rather try then regret afterwards about how if only I'd tried I could've won.

This also made me think about what the game would be like if you didn't get more money the longer you were there. Like maybe if pre-jury got one flat fee and then post-jury minus the winner got one flat fee that was higher. 

Edited May 11, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Guest]

I don't think you can ever really conclude that you can't win while there are still days left to play.  Anything can happen.  Med evacs, huge falling outs, challenge runs, twists, crazy juries... Anyone can win who gets to final tribal.  I would get there, if at all possible.  

[peachmangosteen]

I don't agree. Some people have close to zero chance to win lol. I mean, sure, maybe they could win if everyone else was med evaced, but otherwise no. Although now that they will add a twist at the very end in order to give someone the win, maybe you're right.

[Oscirus]

Yea can't win anything if you can't get there. Besides I've seen it plenty of times when people don't get votes for turning on their closest allies even if we as an audience think it's a good move. There's really no right way to get to the end. If you can defend yourself and explain it to the jury, then it was the right move. If not, it wasn't

[JudyObscure]

When Jeff choked up and said something about how Angela had sacrificed her family for her job, I gasped out loud and thought, "No!  He did not go there!"  Then I realized he thought that was a good thing and was praising her for it.  I was slow to catch on because I don't think it's a good thing and I really can't imagine why a mother of a young child would volunteer to join the military, knowing she may have to leave them for months at a time.  But I would only think it, I wouldn't say it.

[peachmangosteen]

3 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

But to be a passive coattail rider just for the privilege of getting insulted by the jury is nothing I would want to do.

Oh, and this so much. I would rather get a bit less money and have fun at Ponderosa than get to F3 just hear about about how much I suck from people I actually lasted longer than.

[Guest]

52 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I don't agree. Some people have close to zero chance to win lol. I mean, sure, maybe they could win if everyone else was med evaced, but otherwise no. Although now that they will add a twist at the very end in order to give someone the win, maybe you're right.

But keep in mind you're viewing it from an edited perspective.  Out there, Laurel's outlook was a lot different from what we're shown.  Sometimes people are 180 degrees different from what we're shown.

[peachmangosteen]

In Laurel's case though she has said a couple times that she knows she won't win if she goes to the end with Dom/Wendell.

[ByaNose]

2 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

In Laurel's case though she has said a couple times that she knows she won't win if she goes to the end with Dom/Wendell.

Yeah, she out right says it. She would lose going with Dom/Wendell and might win going with the other side Kellyn et all but doesn’t trust “them” to take her to the end. Then you throw in the fire making challenge. I have no idea what anyone is thinking for their Final 4. I’m not even sure what Dom/Wendell are thinking about that. Everyone assumes one of them is winning due to the major edit but even that’s not being aired. I’m sure it’s been talked about but the editors have left that out. Last season, it was new to the players. This season it wasn’t but any known discussions haven’t made the edit.

Edited May 12, 2018 by ByaNose

[Coco88]

Maybe Laurel is waiting to cut Dom.  And will let someone else get out Wendell.  Or maybe she’s playing Kimmy from Second Chances game and is waiting until there is just enough people left that the other side has to take her to the final tribal.  (Sucked for Kimmy that was the epic tribal where no votes were counted and she wound up being bounced)

[GenerationX]

Random thoughts on episode 12 "I Don't Want to Go ... Chelsea"

• Dom's wife (not a graduate of charm school, that's for sure) got more screen time this season than Chelsea, who got less than zero
• The Loved Ones eps drag, even when we're treated to the eminently mockable but not quite beyond belief Sebastian/Grace relationship  
• While the boys are at their reward, the girls talk but cannot convince Laurel that coming in fourth with them is better than coming in fourth with the boys.

[awaken]

On 5/10/2018 at 1:35 PM, Lamb18 said:

Funny, if I was on Survivor and my youngest brother was my loved one, he would answer Jeff, "Fine." Or he might say, "I feel OK."

Haha.  Same for my son if he was there!  Do they choose who the loved one will be ahead of time, or are they genuinely surprised?  I can just imagine being unpleasantly surprised by a loved one you don’t want to see!  Could easily happen to me!  “Shaina, it’s your dad!”  “Oh shoot, he’s not my hero and I don’t want a BBQ back at camp with him, and he hasn’t a clue about strategy. I’m losing this challenge.”

[LanceM]

Yes in the pre-season interviews some of them talked about who was coming out to see them should they make the loved one episode. 

[jhummerbird]

There was a quick comment from Laurel to Donathan that I thought really showed where here head was at -- Donathan was arguing in favor of flipping on Dom/Wendell and Laurel said something like "we could do it next time." 

I wanted Laurel to flip this time just because I'm rooting for her and think her best shot at winning is against the Naviti women in final 4, but I think she was right to vote off Chelsea. Let's say she did flip and Wendell went home: 

Now she is in a 5-person alliance with a tight trio (Angela/Chelsea/Kellyn) who can easily pull in Sebastian. If Dom wins immunity next week then either Laurel or Donathan are on the chopping block. 

With Chelsea going home:

She gets rid of a challenge monster while still keeping enough votes to flip on Dom/Wendell. If she flips on them in this upcoming tribal, she becomes part of a tight pair (Laurel/Donathan) working with another pair (Angela/Kellyn) with two other individuals (SeaBass and either Dom or Wendell). In this case, I think both Laurel and Donathan are likely to make it to the top 5. And then you're only one immunity away from guaranteeing yourself top 4. 

Or in other words, I think Kellyn wanted a top 5 of Angela/Chelsea/Kellyn/SeaBass plus whoever was left of Wendell/Don/Laurel/Donathan. Now her top 5 has to be Angela/Kellyn/Sea Bass plus TWO of the W/D/L/D alliance, which raises the odds for Laurel. So I'm okay with her waiting a week to flip. Hopefully that is her plan!!

Edited May 12, 2018 by jhummerbird
Fixed spelling

[Oscirus]

1 hour ago, LanceM said:

Yes in the pre-season interviews some of them talked about who was coming out to see them should they make the loved one episode. 

Better yet, Wendell called out the fact that his dad was there before he saw who it was.

[KimberStormer]

13 hours ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

The way I see it is we see maybe .005% of what went on out there and they see a LOT more, though a different set, but their info is unedited for story value and they know these people, which is priceless.  If Laurel feels her best odds are with Dom/Wen/Don, who am I to say I know better?  (Though in this case I think it is her best odds.)  

I don't recall any prior season comments about weird spousal dynamics on visit day.  Usually, spouses seem perfectly normal to me.  

I mean sure, but this is Survivor Nihilism.  Yeah, they edit it, so we can't know the truth, and can't say anything about what happens out there, at all.  For all we know, Laurel is getting told what to do by the Fijan shark god Dakuwaqa, who is giving infallible advice, and it's just edited out.  Accepted.  But this epistemological stance is pretty boring.  I prefer to call it like I see it, simply because that's the only way we can call it, and have something to discuss and debate every week, which is a true delight in my life.  I don't really care about what's not on TV. 

11 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

This also made me think about what the game would be like if you didn't get more money the longer you were there. Like maybe if pre-jury got one flat fee and then post-jury minus the winner got one flat fee that was higher. 

I've always thought/said that the different prizes for different non-winning placements is bad for the game.  Honestly, I don't think it really effects people's thinking in reality, but if it were me, everyone, pre- or post-merge would get a flat fee and the winner's million would be on top of that.  Francesca should get the same money as Ozzy: loser money.  Playing for one more tribal is a scourge, playing for FTC is a disgrace, everyone should be playing to win and only to win.  That's my opinion!

[Blissfool]

Sebastian (to his sister): "You're so pretty!"

Then two seconds later, Sebastian (to Jeff): "my sister and I are like twins."

??

[peachmangosteen]

12 hours ago, ByaNose said:

I’m sure [the new F4 format] has been talked about but the editors have left that out. Last season, it was new to the players. This season it wasn’t but any known discussions haven’t made the edit.

I guess they're waiting until the F4 ep to show the discussions about this. But yea I assume they must have been talking about it throughout. I think we should've been shown at least a bit of those discussions. I also would've liked to have seen some discussions about Jeff's 'chore chart' or whatever, but I'm sure it's just them all laughing at it and then going about their day and it would probably embarrass Jeff if they showed that lol.

9 hours ago, jhummerbird said:

There was a quick comment from Laurel to Donathan that I thought really showed where here head was at -- Donathan was arguing in favor of flipping on Dom/Wendell and Laurel said something like "we could do it next time." 

She's been saying 'next time!' for awhile now. But then 'next time' it's still not the right time. 

Edited May 12, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

22 hours ago, Special K said:

I think the producers made a deal with Zeke not to reveal his history until/unless he decided to.  Who knows how often such deals are made for privacy?

The Producers make those deals all the time. They let Michael lie about his age and have let professional athletes lie about their careers. Zeke wasn’t lying, he omitted a storyline, but it gets to the idea that Production will allow the individuals to determine part of their story line.

22 hours ago, Lunula said:

I honestly don't know why the women didn't band together to get Sebastian out. First, the guy does absolutely nothing. Second, he snubbed every single woman last night - twice. Not only could he not stoop so low as to choose even one woman to go on the reward, but then he also gives his boys first choice to go to Ghost Island. Seriously? I understand Dom & Wendell are bigger threats - but had they banded together against Sebastian, I think they would've been successful. Would Laurel and Donathan care if Sebastian went home? 

It makes me sad every season to see that women seem incapable of alliances with one another. The men stick together, it's a boys club where women are typically fodder. Sometimes we have a woman who is truly "in" the boys club - but women on this show pretty much always turn against each other. They pick off the other women while the bigger threats go untouched. I don't get it. 

On a side note, I like Donathan, but he's not playing a very smart game. The cockiness last week when he used his idol and his arrogance again tonight after that ill-advised outburst...c'mon, man. Get it together. 

Why take out Sea Bass? He is a great goat and a non-entity.

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I guess they're waiting until the F4 ep to show the discussions about this. But yea I assume they must have been talking about it throughout. I think we should've been shown at least a bit of those discussions. I also would've liked to have seen some discussions about Jeff's 'chore chart' or whatever, but I'm sure it's just them all laughing at it and then going about their day and it would probably embarrass Jeff if they showed that lol.

She's been saying 'next time!' for awhile now. But then 'next time' it's still not the right time. 

Laurel needs to convince Wendall to toss Dom. 

[Lunula]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

Why take out Sea Bass? He is a great goat and a non-entity.

To take out someone on Don and Wendell’s alliance, to shift power to a female alliance and to hopefully get Laurel and Donathan to join the female alliance. Laurel has proven time and time again that she won’t vote Wendell or Dom, so why not pick off one of their alliance to weaken them at least?

[enoughcats]

20 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

to join the military, knowing she may have to leave them for months at a time. 

My Sister in Law had the reasons of a guaranteed pension, great health care, and she liked to travel.  She ended up Coast Guard Reserve and it worked for her. 

[JudyObscure]

28 minutes ago, enoughcats said:

My Sister in Law had the reasons of a guaranteed pension, great health care, and she liked to travel.  She ended up Coast Guard Reserve and it worked for her. 

My husband is career military and served 22 years, just like Angela, so I understand the advantages.  I just know I wouldn't have joined when my children were babies because being with them as they grew up meant far more to me than a pension and traveling. I know circumstances are different for everyone, but I do think if you choose to have children they should come before most other things.

I don't share the sort of patriotism that says we should thank every military person for their service even when it's something we didn't ask them to do and would rather they had not.  I was astonished when congress decided to go to war over a criminal terrorist act and I voted for Obama because he voted against it.  Seventeen years later, I still view the lives lost there as a tragic waste. There are hundreds of ways to serve our country.  Every nurse, council member, farmer or fireman in America is serving our country.  I feel like Jeff Probst is shoving something down our throats that we don't all have to agree with.

[peachmangosteen]

5 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

The Producers make those deals all the time. They let Michael lie about his age and have let professional athletes lie about their careers. Zeke wasn’t lying, he omitted a storyline, but it gets to the idea that Production will allow the individuals to determine part of their story line.

I think the op was referring to the fact that the show didn't even let the audience in on Zeke's story. In all of the cases you mentioned, we knew about it.

Quote

Laurel needs to convince Wendall to toss Dom. 

This is probably what she might actually end up doing. Come like F5, maybe F6, she'll probably float it. Or more likely imo, Wendell will, and she'll go along with it.

Edited May 12, 2018 by peachmangosteen

[Special K]

On 5/12/2018 at 3:17 PM, JudyObscure said:

 but I do think if you choose to have children they should come before most other things.

Do you feel the same way about military men who have families?
 

[JudyObscure]

4 hours ago, Special K said:

Do you feel the same way about military men who have families?
 

Pretty much, although most very small children are  more Mommy-bonded than they are with their fathers. Most child psychologists will say that the mother is the number one source of security for the child and that losing her is their primary fear.  That's why women are given primary custody in divorce cases far more often then the fathers, but  I  really hate to see either parent leave his or her children for six months at a time for any type of job.

Edited May 14, 2018 by JudyObscure

[ProfCrash]

On ‎5‎/‎12‎/‎2018 at 5:44 PM, peachmangosteen said:

I think the op was referring to the fact that the show didn't even let the audience in on Zeke's story. In all of the cases you mentioned, we knew about it.

True. I think the idea is the same, allow the player to determine what they want shared or not shared as a part of their strategy. We would all learn that the Professional Athletes were Professional Athletes as soon as they were announced, so there really is not anything to hide from the audience. In addition, the deception on the Athletes part becomes a part of their story line. In Zeke's case, the Production team discussed his being transgender as a part of his story and he said no. I suspect that they pouted a bit, because it was a first and would have made a good story, but agreed to not mention it on the show or in the press because it had no bearing on the game.

I think they distinguish between events that have no bearing on the game that the players do not wish to discuss and things that they players are lying about thinking that it brings them a strategic advantage, like their occupation or their age. The later is normally something the players are more then happy to discuss in confessionals because they think they are being sneaky. The former is information that we rarely hear about in the show because it is just not important nor is it the place of the Production team to reveal personal information.

Either way, they allow the player to take the lead on what information is shared and will follow their lead. In Zeke's case, they did not reveal very personal information and Zeke did not discuss it in his talking heads. Michael was allowed to lie about his age, and Jeff supported that lie but not reminding people that anyone under 21 cannot drink at rewards and feasts, while discussing his age n his talking heads.

[green]

On 5/11/2018 at 7:10 PM, peachmangosteen said:

In Laurel's case though she has said a couple times that she knows she won't win if she goes to the end with Dom/Wendell.

Typical Survivor misdirection editing.  To constantly SAY this specifically says to me that Laurel could well be the winner.  She already has the David vs Goliath edit going on so I would not be surprised at all if she wins.  If not she has already assured herself of a call back on a future Survivor.  One where she hopefully won't get the "luck" of ending up on the Sucky Tribe.

Also she wouldn't be with BOTH Wendell and Dom.  Those two have said in confessionals they know they can't be with each other in the finals and the editing has already set up a Dom/Wendell throw down starting several episodes ago.

Once one leads the charge to take out the other -- probably Dom will make the first move since he said he knows how to use his "official" fake idol he found -- one of them will go home.  Then all Laurel needs is enough players left to engineer the biggest blindside move of the season, taking the other out, and the money is all hers.  Especially if she is sitting next to Donathan and Sea Bass and doesn't have to deal with the Nafiti (or whatever it was called ) All Women Tribal Alliance that Kellyn thinks she is the cult leader of.

Final tribal.  Each are asked to say why they should be the winner.

Donathan:  "I was the mumble and then I mumbled and blew up mumble then I mumbled him and mumbled some more.

Sebastion:  "Wow look.  Like if I like move my hands my fingers like make trails in the air like, dude!"

Laurel:  "I don't mumble and I am not a stoned Sea Bass."

Edited May 14, 2018 by green