S07.E18: Over A Cliff

[Ohwell]

Well hell, imma start my own secret agency and call it Bullshit 237.

I've been wanting to say this for a loooong time.  Fuck you, Shonda.

WORST.FINALE.EVAH!!! 

[mwell345]

Here I am, standing in the sun, because the dark cloud that has been Scandal has passed. 

The finale was awful, and because Scandal has been so bad for the last 2 seasons, my bar was set  pretty low.

Add me to the list of those that don't understand why, if you tell a committee that you ordered the assassination of a foreign leader, you don't end up in the cell right next to your little boy-toy. 

Papa Pope saves the day, and someone correct me if I am wrong - but apparently, B613 was formed because of "white privilege" and the patriot Papa Pope should get a medal for running the country for so many years?    Should he get a medal for killing Fitz's son?  All those jurors on the bus?  And all the other tortures and killings he was responsible for? What exactly did "white privilege" have to do with any of it?  Seriously question, I was halfway tuned out at that point and checking my IPad - what did I miss?

But by far, the biggest offense to me was the obvious rip-off of that sweet little girl staring at Michelle Obama's portrait.   Shonda should be ashamed of herself for even trying to make that comparison.

Edited April 20, 2018 by mwell345

[Guest]

I really thought it couldn’t get much worse than last year’s season finale with all the shoe-horned plots they threw in. But somehow it did!

[Chaos Theory]

What I originally liked about Scandal was that it had a strong black woman and a gay man with questionable ethics in lead rolls.  I don’t mind “questionable ethics”.  I think they make shows more interesting.  When they make sense.   The first few seasons the highly questionable things everyone did made sense at least if you didn’t pull it apart too much.   As the show progressed it well went over a cliff and became a platform for speechifying for whatever the current issue happened to be.  Which really hurt the show at least In my opinion.

Plus Pope saving the day annoys me more then it should.  If anyone should have been murdered it should have been him.  Maybe by Quinn or even Rosen.  Rosen kills Pope Thinking it is justice but later questions it.

The end with Olivia maybe being President is pure pandering.

i think I am done with Shonda Rhimes.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Chaos Theory]

46 minutes ago, mwell345 said:

 

Add me to the list of those that don't understand why, if you tell a committee that you ordered the assassination of a foreign leader, you don't end up in the cell right next to your little boy-toy. 

Papa Pope saves the day, and someone correct me if I am wrong - but apparently, B613 was formed because of "white privilege" and the patriot Papa Pope should get a medal for running the country for so many years?    Should he get a medal for killing Fitz's son?  All those jurors on the bus?  And all the other tortures and killings he was responsible for? What exactly did "white privilege" have to do with any of it?  Seriously question, I was halfway tuned out at that point and checking my IPad - what did I miss?

 

 

Well yes to all of it.  

The hearing was a closed hearing and when Pope came in to save the day he basically said “Do you really want the nation to know a black man has been running it for thirty years?  No didn’t think so.  I have a solution.  Burn the evidence frame a scary white guy.   Poof!  All is....white* with the world again.”  

*not a typo

Edited April 20, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[Ohwell]

1 hour ago, mwell345 said:

But by far, the biggest offense to me was the obvious rip-off of that sweet little girl staring at Michelle Obama's portrait.   Shonda should be ashamed of herself for even trying to make that comparison.

Yes.  I can handwave all the other stupid show shenanigans because I expect that from Shonda, but she reached a new low with that obvious rip-off.  I, personally, was offended by that.  She should be ashamed of herself but, of course, she isn't and she'd probably say she did it "for all the little black girls in the world."  Yeah, they should look up to murderin' Olivia Pope.

[Good Queen Jane]

I really hate the fact that Papa Pope ends up being the one who saves the day while Olivia spends most of the episode with her lips quivering and jumping Fitz's bones. Why couldn't Olivia have given the speech about white privilege and point out that she, a strong black woman, had put two presidents in office and probably saved all the men sitting on the committee's asses before their various tawdry affairs were revealed. I could believe that Olivia would end up strutting down the Mall and have her picture in the National Portrait Gallery.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Good Queen Jane

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. it’s a day later and this finale was so bad. Last night I was kind of meh on the whole thing but now I’m actually kind of mad.

Every bad persons minus one got off scott free. And Olivia despite being our heroine is a bad person who has done bad things but whatever.. and Cyrus is now all messed up because he killed David but whatever.. was I supposed to care that he has to live with guilt? I don’t. 

This was just bad. I said it again, I want some of Olivia coats as penance for the last seven years of my life! 

[Chaos Theory]

I am pretty much done commenting on the show because it was a fun distraction when it was good but I haven’t really cared about the show in years and skipped most of the final season and only watched the finale because I have a thing about finales.  

Thinking about it I would have preferred if the plan would have gone down as planned.  Everyone testifys against Jake and Cyrus and then EVERYONE gets arrested.   Fast forward a couple years when things quiet down and Rosen quietly releases everyone but Jake, Cyrus and Pope from jail and they all go in different directions to lead the best life they can.

The show ends with Olivia trying to decide if she wants to go off with Fitz to a quiet life or rebuild her life in the sun even though she is technically supposed to be in prison.  Shadows of her rebuilding B316.  Leading and controlling from the shadows.

What?  I’m a nihilist.  

Edited April 20, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[tanyak]

My problem with Rowan's speech was less than content and more the delivery. He sounded and looked unhinged with all the gesturing and posturing. What evidence did the Senate have to believe he was who he said he was?  I would have thought he was a nut with all that showboating.

And I can't even discuss the David thing. That was so, so stupid. That meeting would have happened in the morning, in an office, with a room full of lawyers. Ugh. But then again, last week, the guy running the investigation would have taken photos as soon as he walked into the B316 war room and waited for the FBI to arrive before leaving. I really hate when shows do idiotic things. 

I didn't start watching "Scandal" until midway through the third season. I understand from MANY that I missed the glory years. I'll try to catch up this summer. 

[mwell345]

2 minutes ago, tanyak said:

I didn't start watching "Scandal" until midway through the third season. I understand from MANY that I missed the glory years. I'll try to catch up this summer. 

The first few seasons were definitely better.  I have a friend who is currently watching them, and she is so in love with show.  I don't have the heart to tell her how disappointed she's going to be.

[TV Diva Queen]

am I the only one that thinks Cyrus killed himself after signing the resignation letter?  He was walking around with what appeared to be the same drink he served David.  ALSO, why the hell doesn't David has Secret Service, especially while at this B13 (or whatever the F its called) is at the forefront?  

[Ohwell]

I will say that Cyrus looked much more believable handing the drink to David than Olivia did handing the drink to Cyrus.

[wanderingstar]

Quote

I honestly don't understand why they wrote David as stupid enough to accept a drink from Cyrus.

This has been a problem with this show from day 1. David agreeing to even meet with Cyrus is completely plot driven. He has to be stupid because the plot says so.

Ah well, at least the show was true to itself to the very end.

[candle96]

This show went full-on ridiculous several years ago, but I really couldn't take this episode. 

David Rosen had to recuse himself about the "plot" to take down Cyrus' plane because he was on the plane, but he DIDN'T have to recuse himself when his freaking GIRLFRIEND was one of the people possibly going to jail??!? Pretty sure the AG can't just hang out with the people testifying about B613 if he's the one making the final decision about their fate. Jeezus, and I'm not anything close to a law expert.

David going to see Cyrus and take a drink was really stupid, yes, but so was the idea that the Attorney General's mysterious death would not have ANY questions swirling around it?? And that the entire Justice Dept would just move along, no questions asked. There was some offhand line about the deputy AG being a pawn of Cyrus, but STILL. Imagine if in the midst of these Russia investigations somebody like Bob Mueller, Jeff Sessions or Rod Rosenstein just happened to die. The collective internet would lose its mind. I'm also pretty sure someone like the AG has federal protection/body guards.

I could not care less about Olivia and Fitz. Honestly, her scene with Jake in prison had a lot more emotional resonance for me personally. Granted, I'm team Scott Foley forever, but the idea that he is any worse of a person than the rest of them is silly. I think Shonda Rhimes tried to play both sides with Jake - bad when it was convenient for the plot, good when it was convenient for the plot. In the end, it didn't make much sense.

I sort of was okay with Cyrus's ending, because his bad deeds finally caught up with his conscience, and now he has to spend the rest of his life living with that, while also not being in power. Again, I would seriously question if the VP just up and resigned following the death of the AG at his house, but I live in the real world. Apparently in Scandal world, American citizens are incredibly dumb. 

I've never found Kerry Washington's walk to look powerful, I think it looks strange. There, I said it. She is beautiful, though, and the portrait was stunning.

Edited April 20, 2018 by candle96

[funnygirl]

I was underwhelmed. It felt more like a filler episode than a series finale. 

I wish Jake would've died and that Cyrus ended up in prison. 

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, tanyak said:

I didn't start watching "Scandal" until midway through the third season. I understand from MANY that I missed the glory years. I'll try to catch up this summer. 

Definitely start from the beginning! The cases of the week were great and Liv and Fitz were compelling. He makes a speech in the Rose Garden about how much he loves her that had me thinking, damn, I know she's a side chick, but ...

1 hour ago, Gillian Rosh said:

This has been a problem with this show from day 1. David agreeing to even meet with Cyrus is completely plot driven. He has to be stupid because the plot says so.

Ah well, at least the show was true to itself to the very end.

Roger Ebert called this an Idiot Plot, where the plot only exists because everyone involved is an idiot and the plot wouldn't/couldn't exist if anyone involved had any sense. And it's totally true here. Getting out of bed to make a deal (and not just any deal, either!) in the middle of the night, with someone you know is shady and power-hungry enough to stage a plane hijacking? And David is supposed to be smart? (Also, as someone said, David would have recused himself.) And the AG dies of a "heart attack" in the middle of all this and everyone is like "Well, okay" and moves on? No one goes "hmmm" about that?

[JenE4]

Ok, gang, I quit this show last year (the year before??) when Huck got kidnapped and we were supposed to feel sorry for that psychopath. Aw, hell no!! I don’t care enough to watch this last episode, but someone please tell me whether Olivia and Fitz ended up together and, if so, did they move to Vermont to make jam? Any other ending is unacceptable—save for perhaps the Seinfeld ending wherein the whole cast ends up in prison for all of the crimes they committed throughout the series.

[kicksave]

I, like so many others on here today, was disappointed with the finale but in all honesty, I didn't expect it to be good given the downward spiral of the show in the last few years. This show had jumped the shark sometime ago. Don't know why I kept watching it in the first place...the writing sucked and I could not stand watching one more overacted, over enunciated, over the top performance from Joe Morton. I think this finale will go down as one of the worst on par with the finale of the Sopranos. Toodles Scandal.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, kicksave said:

I, like so many others on here today, was disappointed with the finale but in all honesty, I didn't expect it to be good given the downward spiral of the show in the last few years. This show had jumped the shark sometime ago. Don't know why I kept watching it in the first place...the writing sucked and I could not stand watching one more overacted, over enunciated, over the top performance from Joe Morton. I think this finale will go down as one of the worst on par with the finale of the Sopranos. Toodles Scandal.

I didn’t expect it to be good at all but I actually thought I would laugh at some of the parts. Like I thought it was going to be terribly awful. It was just boring and made me mad that they had these people making idiotic moves. Like really.. David was really going to go to see Cyrus alone and drink something cyrus have him? David isn’t dumb. and Abby wouldn’t be dumb to let him go alone. Hell. I kept waiting for Huck to pop out from the hallway at some point when David was dying from the posion  to attack Cyrus.

[shelley1234]

Shonda's shows always drive me batty.  Scandal and the drivel of a finale is no different.   She starts off making a great show, I get hooked and then 2 or 3 seasons later it turns to garbage, but I'm committed and I keep watching.   

I actually hoped for maybe a second that Shonda was so sick of politics as usual in our actual climate that she would leave the show with everyone in jail and the world seeing how broken it all was.   But I knew she couldn't do that to Olivia, her white hat, who stopped being a white hat a long long long time ago.  

This show is garbage and as a result, had a garbage finale.   Jake is a better person than Olivia and she gets to be fake President in the final moments.  Nope.  Gross.  

[PsychoDrone]

The best line of the night was screamed by Quinn with great enthusiasm, "IT'S OVER!!!"  Granted, she was talking about the trial, but it really applies to the horribleness of this show.  Truer words were never spoken.

That was beyond ridiculous.  It takes more than the suspension of disbelief to make this finale palatable.  You have to be completely brain dead.  David Rosen is an IDIOT!!!  Really, not him, but the writers for trying to peddle that stupidity to the viewers.  Who didn't guess Cyrus was going to kill him?  David has an "awesome" moment staring down Jake and then gets killed by the person Jake was working with.  SERIOUSLY!?!?!

How is everyone not in jail or indicted?  That speech by Rowan was beyond stupid.  Committee members should have said, "Well, thank you for your service", then had the cops arrest him and escort him to his cell next to Jake's.

The final slap in the face was Olivia's portrait in the gallery.  Why is it there?  She is a disgraced Chief of Staff that confessed she had a head of state assassinated.  And, that's just the stuff the public knows.  It's great to have your own show because, if you're making the networks money, you can put all kinds of stupid in it.

[Empress1]

1 hour ago, JenE4 said:

Ok, gang, I quit this show last year (the year before??) when Huck got kidnapped and we were supposed to feel sorry for that psychopath. Aw, hell no!! I don’t care enough to watch this last episode, but someone please tell me whether Olivia and Fitz ended up together and, if so, did they move to Vermont to make jam? Any other ending is unacceptable—save for perhaps the Seinfeld ending wherein the whole cast ends up in prison for all of the crimes they committed throughout the series.

They have sex for what they think is the last time because she assumes she's going to prison for the rest of her life. She does not go to prison. Mellie offers her the chief of staff gig again; she refuses. She struts (literally) down the Mall, an SUV stops in front of her and Fitz gets out. "Hi," he says. "Hi," she replies. The end!

[bobbyjoe]

Quote

Shonda's shows always drive me batty.  Scandal and the drivel of a finale is no different.   She starts off making a great show, I get hooked and then 2 or 3 seasons later it turns to garbage, but I'm committed and I keep watching.   

Shonda and Ryan Murphy apparently have the same disease: they can make great first seasons, but after that they start losing any sense of why people liked the show and gradually turn their series into absolute unwatchable idiocy with characters viewers once liked turning into blathering obnoxious morons (The Walking Dead people seem intent on joining this same club).

Quote

Yeah, the writers had no problem with letting all the other killers get away in this series, so...

Yeah, I'm still not sure why I should see Cyrus as more worthy of death at the end than any other of these creeps.  They're all scum and murderers.  They've all either directly or indirectly killed innocents, many much more innocent than David.  Let's remember for instance that it suited Liv's purposes to have a teenager killed this season.  Hearing that Shonda intended to have a scene where Huck shows up to torture Cyrus to death at the end but "ran out of time" makes me think two things: 1) again, the show ending with somebody torturing their one gay character to death at the end would be pretty indefensible, particularly in light of how shitty the show has been with LGBT characters throughout; 2) it would have been really bad writing, as it would wreck and make pointless the whole "Huck is now the moral conscience who doesn't want them to go back to being monsters" storyline that's been pretty much his whole story the second half of the season.  Still, predictable she wrote that scene: it's both glaringly offensive and makes not one damn bit of sense.

[bobbyjoe]

Quote

I will say that Cyrus looked much more believable handing the drink to David than Olivia did handing the drink to Cyrus.

Wile E Coyote looks more believable trying to hand an ACME bomb to the roadrunner than Liv did handing Cyrus that glass of wine.

[watch2much]

yes, thank goodness it's over.  I agree that Shondra's shows start out good then become ridiculously unbelievable.  I gave up on "Murder" long ago.  I actually felt bad for Jake.  Of all of them, he was just doing what he was recruited and trained to do by Rowan, follow orders and kill.  and he actually chose not to kill David.  Yet he's made the sacrificial lamb.  I really wish this show had stayed true to what it was when it started and the gladiators solved problems with other stuff in the background.  The B613 stuff just got real old, real fast.

Actually, the best part of the show was Hollis testifying.

[kicksave]

2 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

The best line of the night was screamed by Quinn with great enthusiasm, "IT'S OVER!!!"  Granted, she was talking about the trial, but it really applies to the horribleness of this show.  Truer words were never spoken.

That was beyond ridiculous.  It takes more than the suspension of disbelief to make this finale palatable.  You have to be completely brain dead.  David Rosen is an IDIOT!!!  Really, not him, but the writers for trying to peddle that stupidity to the viewers.  Who didn't guess Cyrus was going to kill him?  David has an "awesome" moment staring down Jake and then gets killed by the person Jake was working with.  SERIOUSLY!?!?!

How is everyone not in jail or indicted?  That speech by Rowan was beyond stupid.  Committee members should have said, "Well, thank you for your service", then had the cops arrest him and escort him to his cell next to Jake's.

The final slap in the face was Olivia's portrait in the gallery.  Why is it there?  She is a disgraced Chief of Staff that confessed she had a head of state assassinated.  And, that's just the stuff the public knows.  It's great to have your own show because, if you're making the networks money, you can put all kinds of stupid in it.

Exactly! I was dumbfounded when they had Olivia Pope's portrait hanging up in the National Portrait Gallery...how stupid does Shonda Rhimes think we are? NO Chief of Staff or underling to the President has their portrait there...especially someone as disgraced as Olivia Pope. You're right, when you have multiple hit shows you can put whatever dumb things you want in them. 

[Guest]

If they had ended with Cyrus being tortured, that would have been absolutely ridiculous. The thought that Cyrus and Jake are the bad guys is so dumb. They’re all terrible. Even “good guy” David got his position by having dirt on people and using it to get power, not to mention what he did to Susan Ross.

[ForeverAlone]

The implication of the portrait is that it is some time in the future and she was either POTUS or FLOTUS. Since I can't imagine who she would have married who became president, I have to assume she becomes POTUS at some point down the road.

In my opinion, this was Shonda wanting to capitalize on the Michelle Obama portrait reaction, without really thinking through the plausibility of it all. But since apparently nearly everyone involved in their crazy schemes got to go on to happy endings, who knows what would happen in the Scandal universe?

Edited April 20, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[Guest]

5 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

In my opinion, this was Shonda wanting to capitalize on the Michelle Obama portrait reaction, without really thinking through the plausibility of it all. But since apparently nearly everyone involved in their crazy schemes got to go on to happy endings, who knows what would happen in the Scandal universe?

 I think the show went even further off the rails when Shonda tried bringing in real life politics to a show that was already so far-fetched.  I get it; she wanted to make a point.  But when you have created an elaborate fantasy world, you can’t tie real life events in too closely.

[ForeverAlone]

Oh I agree about the weird melding of real world and fantasy politics. In the Scandal universe, we are asked to believe that successive Republican administrations would govern practically to the left of many progressives. I could never figure out why the show made the central political figures Republican, when they didn't want to write them as Republicans, but rather progressive Democrats.

[Emma9]

That was crappy. Least I won't be stubbornly throwing a weekly hour of my life at this show anymore.

I knew there was no way this would end with a win for Cyrus, but I wish he'd been able to go out as a magnificent bastard rather than a squeamish hypocrite. And considering that fading away into peaceful obscurity after departing from the White House inner circle is the idea that's always disgusted him most, he didn't exactly get off scot-free even if you don't take the deleted scene into account.

Sucks about David. I never completely regained interest in him after the Susan Ross debacle, but pretty much everyone else deserved to die more - yes, including Cyrus. (But as everyone has asked - how mind-bogglingly stupid can you be? I was assuming the meeting was a trap to catch Cyrus in the act, and frankly was considering him pretty stupid for not guessing it was a trap.)

I wonder if Olivia was aware that Jake just murdered his wife in a fit of pique during their touching goodbye scene in the prison. Or if the viewers were supposed to remember it, given the 'poor Jake, the only scapegoat for all of these crimes' framing.

 

8 hours ago, tanyak said:

My problem with Rowan's speech was less than content and more the delivery. He sounded and looked unhinged with all the gesturing and posturing. What evidence did the Senate have to believe he was who he said he was?  I would have thought he was a nut with all that showboating.

That's the only thing that would have made suffering through his speeches worthwhile - if his audience had gone '...yeah.' and called for the men with the butterfly nets.

 

3 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

The best line of the night was screamed by Quinn with great enthusiasm, "IT'S OVER!!!"  Granted, she was talking about the trial, but it really applies to the horribleness of this show.  Truer words were never spoken.

I laughed at that too, but in-universe, it was pretty poor taste for her to do so right in front of grieving Abby.

Edited April 20, 2018 by Emma9

[Bubbles]

8 hours ago, Good Queen Jane said:

I really hate the fact that Papa Pope ends up being the one who saves the day while Olivia spends most of the episode with her lips quivering and jumping Fitz's bones. Why couldn't Olivia have given the speech about white privilege and point out that she, a strong black woman, had put two presidents in office and probably saved all the men sitting on the committee's asses before their various tawdry affairs were revealed. I could believe that Olivia would end up strutting down the Mall and have her picture in the National Portrait Gallery.

Yeah, I find it disappointing in the same way that the Buffy series finale was: ending a show about a strong woman with a man ultimately saving the day rather than letting her be the hero of her own story. Granted, Olivia hasn't been anything resembling a hero in a very long time, but it seemed like a major misstep to have her set up the events of the finale last week by outing B613 and convincing everyone else to join the crusade and then have her spend most of the actual finale being passive while the actions of men (Lonnie, Jake, Cyrus, Papa Pope) drive the plot. 

[reggiejax]

Quote

My problem with Rowan's speech was less than content and more the delivery. He sounded and looked unhinged with all the gesturing and posturing. What evidence did the Senate have to believe he was who he said he was?  I would have thought he was a nut with all that showboating.

Maybe they could have gone the Tommy Westphall route, and ended the show with this Congressional Hearing being a figment of Papa Pope's mind. Because he is in fact not the leader of a super secret organization that controls the United States, but merely the senile father of Olivia Pope (who, it turns out, is just a beleaguered and underpaid public defender with a wardrobe that is woefully lacking, to say the least). And the entire Scandal-verse simply existed inside his head, represented physically by a snow globe with the White House inside it. 

Now that would have almost been worth all the idiocy of the last few seasons.

Almost. 

Edited April 20, 2018 by reggiejax

[candle96]

1 hour ago, ForeverAlone said:

The implication of the portrait is that it is some time in the future and she was either POTUS or FLOTUS. Since I can't imagine who she would have married who became president, I have to assume she becomes POTUS at some point down the road.

In my opinion, this was Shonda wanting to capitalize on the Michelle Obama portrait reaction, without really thinking through the plausibility of it all. But since apparently nearly everyone involved in their crazy schemes got to go on to happy endings, who knows what would happen in the Scandal universe?

Yeah, putting Michelle Obama and Olivia Pope in the same sentence, let alone linking the two as similar, should be a crime. The idea that Olivia is a role model for African American women is beyond ridiculous and insulting. I was fine with her having questionable ethics and being a bad ass, as it a television show. (and she stopped being a bad ass somewhere around season 3)  But let's not pretend I hope any young girl would actually emulate her. Shonda shoe-horning real life politics into all of this was a mistake, when it was established long ago that none of these were good people.

4 hours ago, PsychoDrone said:

The best line of the night was screamed by Quinn with great enthusiasm, "IT'S OVER!!!"  Granted, she was talking about the trial, but it really applies to the horribleness of this show.  Truer words were never spoken.

Remember when Quinn was the weak link and most annoying member of the show? She and Charlie were the only ones I could stand at the end.

[Chaos Theory]

26 minutes ago, candle96 said:

Remember when Quinn was the weak link and most annoying member of the show? She and Charlie were the only ones I could stand at the end.

As a Quinn supporter from the start and someone who loved her from her season 2 downward spiral I say "Ha!" 

[J-Man]

It's not 1960 anymore. There are currently 23 women in the US Senate, not to mention a number of minority males. There is no possible way any "Senate select committee" would consist solely of white males in this day and age.

[bobbyjoe]

6 hours ago, Bubbles said:

Yeah, I find it disappointing in the same way that the Buffy series finale was: ending a show about a strong woman with a man ultimately saving the day rather than letting her be the hero of her own story. Granted, Olivia hasn't been anything resembling a hero in a very long time, but it seemed like a major misstep to have her set up the events of the finale last week by outing B613 and convincing everyone else to join the crusade and then have her spend most of the actual finale being passive while the actions of men (Lonnie, Jake, Cyrus, Papa Pope) drive the plot. 

But Joss Whedon continued the Buffy story in comic book form and...  oh God, let’s not give Shonda Rhimes any ideas.

Edited April 21, 2018 by bobbyjoe

[ForeverAlone]

All right, question time. Maybe this was addressed and I just wasn't paying close attention, but just how did Papa Pope start B613 in the first place? He said that he was the one secretly running the country for the past 30 years and all consequential decisions ran through him and he is the reason the country is as successful as it has been (yawn, whatever). Basically the ultimate Deep State. But even if he ran this organization for 30 years, he obviously wasn't the one who started it, because it could only have started at the behest and resources of SOMEONE. Maybe that was mentioned at some point in the years, and I just blocked it out from the endless parade of torture, killings and overripe monologues that ultimately made no sense. 

Edited April 21, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[DesertCyclist]

I'd share a cell with Foley.

[candle96]

38 minutes ago, ForeverAlone said:

All right, question time. Maybe this was addressed and I just wasn't paying close attention, but just how did Papa Pope start B613 in the first place? He said that he was the one secretly running the country for the past 30 years and all consequential decisions ran through him and he is the reason the country is as successful as it has been (yawn, whatever). Basically the ultimate Deep State. But even if he ran this organization for 30 years, he obviously wasn't the one who started it, because it could only have started at the behest and resources of SOMEONE. Maybe that was mentioned at some point in the years, and I just blocked it out from the endless parade of torture, killings and overripe monologues that ultimately made no sense. 

I had the same question myself. I'm not sure it's ever been fully (or even partially) explained.

[ichbin]

6 hours ago, bobbyjoe said:

Shonda and Ryan Murphy apparently have the same disease: they can make great first seasons, but after that they start losing any sense of why people liked the show and gradually turn their series into absolute unwatchable idiocy with characters viewers once liked turning into blathering obnoxious morons (The Walking Dead people seem intent on joining this same club).

I was comparing the two as well.  No denying that they're great starters.  Shonda Rhimes should go the route of Ryan Murphy and start making what is essentially one season and done shows.  I've liked most of her shows for a season or two, but then they all seem to go off the rails.  Despite giving up on most of the rest I stuck with Scandal until the end, but I'm really not sure why.  I think I probably would not have watched at all this season except for the fact I knew it was the last.  I was hoping for a solid ending, but that finale was not it.   The only good thing I can say about it was that Kerry Washington looked stunning in the portrait at the end.

[kicksave]

5 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

The implication of the portrait is that it is some time in the future and she was either POTUS or FLOTUS. Since I can't imagine who she would have married who became president, I have to assume she becomes POTUS at some point down the road.

In my opinion, this was Shonda wanting to capitalize on the Michelle Obama portrait reaction, without really thinking through the plausibility of it all. But since apparently nearly everyone involved in their crazy schemes got to go on to happy endings, who knows what would happen in the Scandal universe?

Yes...that was what Shonda was doing...capitalizing on the little girl that was spellbound by  Michelle Obama's portrait. Didn't think of Olivia Pope becoming a POTUS in the future...but it would make sense in Shondaland.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

All right, question time. Maybe this was addressed and I just wasn't paying close attention, but just how did Papa Pope start B613 in the first place? He said that he was the one secretly running the country for the past 30 years and all consequential decisions ran through him and he is the reason the country is as successful as it has been (yawn, whatever). Basically the ultimate Deep State. But even if he ran this organization for 30 years, he obviously wasn't the one who started it, because it could only have started at the behest and resources of SOMEONE. Maybe that was mentioned at some point in the years, and I just blocked it out from the endless parade of torture, killings and overripe monologues that ultimately made no sense. 

I think it was addressed but then changed when it suited them. I think is Season 3 it was explained how/when it started and was funded. Then suddenly last season it became Rowan’s brainchild that was all about him.

[jumper sage]

14 hours ago, Chaos Theory said:

i think I am done with Shonda Rhimes.

 

Just now, kicksave said:

Yes...that was what Shonda was doing...capitalizing on the little girl that was spellbound by  Michelle Obama's portrait. Didn't think of Olivia Pope becoming a POTUS in the future...but it would make sense in Shondaland.

I really dislike Shonda and think she does a disservice to the black and women's community.

2 hours ago, J-Man said:

It's not 1960 anymore. There are currently 23 women in the US Senate, not to mention a number of minority males. There is no possible way any "Senate select committee" would consist solely of white males in this day and age.

Google images current Senate committe hearings - almost completely white males.  Just saying.

4 hours ago, candle96 said:

Yeah, putting Michelle Obama and Olivia Pope in the same sentence, let alone linking the two as similar, should be a crime. The idea that Olivia is a role model for African American women is beyond ridiculous and insulting.

I could not agree more!  This is why I did watch the finale on Hulu and have not really watched the show in a couple of years.  I catch up reading your posts.  I can't stand how scummy she portrays black women.

One move would have maybe saved the episode, for me at least.  Had Jake put on his "white hat" and then poisoned Cyrus, leaving his confession letter on the desk, then I would have thought it could have been a good ending.

[wanderingstar]

8 hours ago, watch2much said:

The B613 stuff just got real old, real fast.

For me, the focus on B613 was the death of anything interesting happening on this show. It became the go-to plot device/tension-builder. As soon as it was introduced into any story, my eyes immediately glazed over. 

[Moxie Cat]

7 hours ago, jumper sage said:

One move would have maybe saved the episode, for me at least.  Had Jake put on his "white hat" and then poisoned Cyrus, leaving his confession letter on the desk, then I would have thought it could have been a good ending.

Yes, when Fitz said there was a surprise witness, I thought it would be Jake because David's defense in the garage got to him. It would have built on previous episodes' Jake scenes, like his interactions with Liv and Cyrus regarding being his own man. And maybe he would have gone down too but he would have taken Cyrus with him and been a hero to Liv. That would have been a more satisfying ending for the Jake character, and Cyrus could still have been a broken man but at least he would have been behind bars.

It would have been more in character for Rowan to just skedaddle. 

I don't know if it's been mentioned, but there was some time jumping with the ending sequence. Mellie's gun bill was dated 2021. So I'm sure we are supposed to believe that "whatever Liv wanted to do" earned her that portrait at a far future date, and not her activities on the series.

[Chaos Theory]

I know I said I was done commenting but I still think a better ending was letting Rosen be the hero but it feels like they didn’t do that because he is a white male  and Shonda Rhimes ultimately wanted to make a point about black people in America but it felt flat.  

Edited April 21, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[reggiejax]

17 hours ago, ForeverAlone said:

All right, question time. Maybe this was addressed and I just wasn't paying close attention, but just how did Papa Pope start B613 in the first place? He said that he was the one secretly running the country for the past 30 years and all consequential decisions ran through him and he is the reason the country is as successful as it has been (yawn, whatever). Basically the ultimate Deep State. But even if he ran this organization for 30 years, he obviously wasn't the one who started it, because it could only have started at the behest and resources of SOMEONE. Maybe that was mentioned at some point in the years, and I just blocked it out from the endless parade of torture, killings and overripe monologues that ultimately made no sense. 

The origins and nature of B613 were sort of explained once, early on in their existence on Scandal (I want to say way back in season 2, or maybe 3). 

Cyrus was the exposition fairy in this case, explaining to Fitz that B613 was a secret government organization, created at the beginning of the country's history, that dealt with any threats to the Republic. Mostly meaning they did a lot of dirty work like assassinations.

B613 was so secret even the President was never made aware of its existence, at least not officially. And any President who tried to stick his nose in B613's business was dealt with. Cyrus even implied that JFK was one such President. 

Rowan didn't create the organization, but was merely the current leader, known as Command. He seemingly had held the position for years, at the very least since 1991, the year he had the plane carrying Mama Pope shot down (Fitz being the pilot who actually shot it down). 

Of course this rather straightforward explanation of B613 got changed over and over as the years passed by, usually at the whims of whatever the writers needed. They went from being secret assassins to controllers of every aspect of government. Or not, if that is what the plot required. Papa Pope would alternately be a man doing his patriotic duty and merely the latest in a long line of men doing so, to at times being the man who controlled everything, and had done so all his adult life. Except when they needed to make Papa Pope more sympathetic, in which case, the all powerful Rowan suddenly was at the mercy of the Lizard People, or whoever the hell those people were, during season 6.

[scruffy73]

16 hours ago, Gillian Rosh said:

For me, the focus on B613 was the death of anything interesting happening on this show. It became the go-to plot device/tension-builder. As soon as it was introduced into any story, my eyes immediately glazed over. 

B613 ruined the show.

That’s all.