Season 1-5 Discussion

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

On 7/24/2021 at 1:12 PM, Jenniferbug said:

I saw season 4 advertised on PBS and thought it looked interesting, so I sought out the first 3 seasons, and WOW, I was not disappointed! I truly love this series and think it is so well written and acted. We contribute monthly to PBS so I just finished binging season 4 this morning. 

I didn't love the ending of season 4 and would have preferred something a bit more uplifting, but I'm still invested in season 5 and staying with Sunny and the others as they solve cold cases. 

My only wariness for the new season comes from feeling that in the first season the show bucked the trend of having a detective with loads of problems. Cassie had a nice relationship with her dad, a son who she seemed close with and adored, and not a load of dark skeletons in her past. Obviously they start at the high point and break her down over the subsequent seasons, but I would have liked to see season 4 end with her closer to where she started, maybe moving away with John as planned. But then of course they'd always have viewers asking "where's Cassie? How's Cassie? Is she ever coming back?" in future seasons so this seemed the easiest way to make a clean break. 

In regards to the mystery...did they ever say or even offer an opinion on why Fogerty would have kept the body for all that time? He didn't seem to be blackmailing any of them. Also maybe I missed it, but I missed an explanation for the beheading. Was that part of a plan they came up with together or did Fogerty decide to do that on his own? Maybe I need to watch it again because I feel like once the accident happened, I had a harder time focusing on the resolution to the murder investigation. 

About the beheading, didn't Dean?  ask Sunny? at the end of their conversation why would someone cut of the hands and head of a body?  I couldn't hear exactly what  the reply was ,but it had to do with making the body hard to identify. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I agree in the criticism of Cassie being the head of the team investigating this murder.  She’s interviewing witnesses alone, so she could be called back as a witness if these people are prosecuted. Just seems odd.  
 

Apparently , overhearing that interview with Cassie boosted the confidence of the healthcare/homecare worker to get a raise.  I thought the daughter was terribly  dismissive of her previously.  

[AZChristian]

16 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Apparently , overhearing that interview with Cassie boosted the confidence of the healthcare/homecare worker to get a raise.  I thought the daughter was terribly  dismissive of her previously.  

The daughter had not only gotten away with covering up a murder, she had risen through the ranks of the police department and was about to be promoted again to a pretty high position.  She didn't care one bit about the financial plight of someone who was having to deal with her extremely demanding mother.  

[AZChristian]

14 hours ago, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

About the beheading, didn't Dean?  ask Sunny? at the end of their conversation why would someone cut of the hands and head of a body?  I couldn't hear exactly what  the reply was ,but it had to do with making the body hard to identify. 

Dean and Cassie discussed it at the end of her interview of him.  He was very casual about it.  If I remember correctly, she wondered out loud, "You have to wonder why someone would cut the hands and head off a body," and he responded, "It would make identification difficult, wouldn't it?  You never know what person is capable of."

Ironic - this man who is so dedicated to his family is, deep down, more damaged emotionally than his son is mentally.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Dean and Cassie discussed it at the end of her interview of him.  He was very casual about it.  If I remember correctly, she wondered out loud, "You have to wonder why someone would cut the hands and head off a body," and he responded, "It would make identification difficult, wouldn't it?  You never know what person is capable of."

But it's not the nineteen fifties. A simple DNA test would be all they needed.

[AZChristian]

1 minute ago, peacheslatour said:

But it's not the nineteen fifties. A simple DNA test would be all they needed.

Back then (approximately 1990), DNA was still in its infancy stage.  It existed, but the data bank files were skimpy at best.  

The first murder case to be solved through the use of DNA evidence was in 1987, and it required all men in the village where the murders happened to submit samples.  

Has/does anything come forward to explain why Ram is so hesitant to allow a blood sample to test something related to the health of his unborn child?  Is he concerned about DNA connection to this old case?  And - really - don't most police already have their DNA on file to compare (for elimination purposes) to any blood found at crime scenes?

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m not sure if they take DNA of officers.  Likely prints. Mine are on file as a licensed attorney.  Not in UK though.  

[Milburn Stone]

On 7/28/2021 at 5:32 AM, Alistaire said:

Note to writers: not all scrappy middle-aged working women kill their ex-husbands and dress like a pair of nylons are kryptonite. 😀

Is that something that happens in Last Tango? We were toying with watching it, but I guess now I know how it ends. 

Back to this show...I kind of get why no one went near the corpse all these years. When the murder happened, they were all rookie cops, lacking the confidence to "dispose of a body" and get away with it. Then, as the years passed, their body-disposing skills may have increased, but so did the stakes of getting caught. Best to go nowhere near it and hope for the best.

[SunnyBeBe]

I can’t comment on some of the whys yet. I’m watching each weekly.  I’m still in search of the American actress who has Walker’s trait of looking away.  I like the way Walker does it, but not the other actor so much.  I don’t think it’s very popular now.  Next week, when I have more time, I’m going to do some real research.  
 

Cassie and her boyfriend seem to be good together right now, but they sure are different.  Is she much older than him?  I may need to review old seasons. It’s been a while since I watched them.   

[AZChristian]

2 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

Is that something that happens in Last Tango? We were toying with watching it, but I guess now I know how it ends. 

It's one of many plot points, and how it is revealed is part of the interesting story.  Don't choose not to watch it because of knowing this part.  Lots of other good stuff to see.

[peacheslatour]

Quote

Cassie and her boyfriend seem to be good together right now, but they sure are different.  Is she much older than him?  I may need to review old seasons. It’s been a while since I watched them.   

OMG, the man is a saint.

[Driad]

Can anyone explain how the theme song relates to the show?  "All we do is hide away ... all we do is lie in wait."  It doesn't refer to the police.  Maybe to the criminals?

[Bunnyette]

36 minutes ago, Driad said:

Can anyone explain how the theme song relates to the show?  "All we do is hide away ... all we do is lie in wait."  It doesn't refer to the police.  Maybe to the criminals?

Or the victims of the unsolved murders

[seasons]

Ugh. I hated that scene in the autopsy room. Too CSI for me. That's one of the reasons I don't watch that show or those other ones like it on networks. Too gratuitous for me. I don't remember, have they ever done that before, showing recreated remains like that? 

[JudyObscure]

On 7/26/2021 at 10:24 AM, AZChristian said:

The whole situation with Martin's will . . . she may well be concerned that he is being taken advantage of, but her focus seems to be on the fact that her sons are not having a large trust fund given to them.  She doesn't seem to acknowledge that - as Martin said - Jenny is going to have to care for him, and she may be earning some financial stability by Martin's decision to leave his estate to her.

I know, right?  My brother died of cancer a few years ago and left all his house and money to the woman he had been living with for the final three years.  Toward the end he asked me if we needed money, of course more money is always nice but we weren't "in need" and neither was my son, the only "next generation" member of our family.  So I told him to go ahead and leave it all to her and my only regret is that he didn't have more to leave her.  For the final two years of his life she was his 24 hour care-giver, making him as comfortable as possible and making it possible for him to die in his home. 

Cassie should be thanking her father's new wife and not acting like such a  spoiled brat around her.  Even if the woman really did marry her father for his money what is that to Cassie so long as he is happy and cared for?  I think Cassie's guy agrees with us.

I'm watching this as it airs on TV, so just skimming other posts.

 

[mjc570]

S4E4:

I'm glad they're making progress on the case, because I'm finding everyone pretty irritating in some way or another.  Cassie - wow, her husband and son are amazingly accepting and supportive, but maybe she needs some plain talking to (especially about her father, I don't understand  why she considers "that woman" - whose name she won't even say - as some kind of gold-digger). Sonny - his own experiences with subtle and over racism are making it difficult for him to objectively look at Ram.  Speaking of Ram: what's the point of the wife/baby drama, it doesn't humanize him at all.  Elizabeth -ugh, pay that woman's gas bill at least, will you.  Moving on to Fiona - I don't even see the point of having this character, unless it's to have 2 woman so there is some question of identification .  I do like the charity guy and his lovely family, the show has done a good job of making him a decent person, which I assume is a reaction to the Walsh killing. 

I'm not sure how many episodes there are, but it seems to me that it could be wrapped up in the next one.  The obvious weak point is Fiona. 

[seasons]

Tuesday on pbs - Sanjeev Bhaskar  ("Sonny") in "The Indian Doctor". Looks good!

[AZChristian]

3 hours ago, seasons said:

Tuesday on pbs - Sanjeev Bhaskar  ("Sonny") in "The Indian Doctor". Looks good!

Thanks for the heads up . . . our PBS isn't carrying it, but Amazon Prime is!!!!

[One4Sorrow2TooBad]

Forgive me for my confusion, but is Cassie's Dad married to the woman(is her name Jenny?) he is living with?  

[khyber]

On 8/2/2021 at 5:24 AM, seasons said:

Tuesday on pbs - Sanjeev Bhaskar  ("Sonny") in "The Indian Doctor". Looks good!

It was a very enjoyable series to watch.

[Daff]

On 8/2/2021 at 8:00 AM, mjc570 said:

I do like the charity guy and his lovely family, the show has done a good job of making him a decent person, which I assume is a reaction to the Walsh killing. 

I don’t think so…we see his wife suspecting him of keeping secrets, and he, along with Ram, were once involved in some sort of illicit procurement (of what, we’re not told). After the discussion with his wife where he just tells her they’ll talk about it-but not now, we know he’s involved as deeply as the others. Sympathetic character, given what we’re shown so far, perhaps, but not guiltless. 

[marybennet]

On 8/6/2021 at 6:16 PM, Daff said:

Sympathetic character, given what we’re shown so far, perhaps, but not guiltless. 

I agree. And it feels to me as if his loveliness is the way he’s dealing with his guilt. 

[AZChristian]

I was so glad Cassie left a message for her dad, seeming to be an apology for her behavior.  John did a good thing in helping her to probe her feelings more about why she seems so angry at her father.  

[JudyObscure]

This last episode (5) just stunned me with so much emotion from everyone.

Poor desperate Fiona,  trying to explain her entire mixed up past  to her children in 4 minutes with the police at the door  -- I hate her unsympathetic, judgmental partner who is more worried about the mortgage than her. 

Contrast with Dean's wife who doesn't know exactly what's going on but see's Dean's pain and comforts him.  Dean's mother:   "His brothers beat him to a pulp while his father watched." Wow.

I'm glad Liz and her housekeeper made peace.  Deputy Chief Constable Liz, I should say.  I always want to laugh when they do that. In Ruth Rendell's novels they always said the full mouthful when they spoke to Wexford. something like Chief Detective Inspector Wexford. Heh.

Ram.  I've gone back and forth on whether I like him, but since his father wont look at him, I'm all sympathy now.  I finally placed his wife.  She's the farmer who couldn't read in Home Fires.

Can't wait for the finale.

[zoey1996]

3 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

I finally placed his wife.  She's the farmer who couldn't read in Home Fires.

That character was Stephanie. I didn’t catch that on my first watching. I’ll have to pay attention.

[SunnyBeBe]

On 8/2/2021 at 10:56 PM, One4Sorrow2TooBad said:

Forgive me for my confusion, but is Cassie's Dad married to the woman(is her name Jenny?) he is living with?  

I don’t think  he is married to her.  I’ve watched all the seasons, but don’t recall that.  

[Daff]

I vaguely remember a previous episode (scene in kitchen) where Dad broke the news to Cassie that he made a conscious decision to move in with her (while he still could-make a decision). Cassie was somewhat startled by the revelation, but the idea of marriage was never broached (by either), seemingly because the move alone was enough to absorb? Anyone remember which season that might have been?

Perhaps last season when the crime seemed to take an inordinate toll on Cassie?

Edited August 9, 2021 by Daff

[buckboard]

8 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

Ram.  I've gone back and forth on whether I like him, but since his father wont look at him, I'm all sympathy now.  I finally placed his wife.  She's the farmer who couldn't read in Home Fires.

And Ram's mother played the Mother-in-Law of the "Indian Doctor."

"

[SunnyBeBe]

I’m trying to drum up some sympathy for these people, but it’s just difficult to do.  The detailed story the one former cop told was just not hitting it for me.  I realize they were young, but they had just completed police school.  How in the hey didn’t they all know stopping to harass that guy was going to be a fiasco?   It’s really difficult to fathom.  

[Dessert]

I admit, I sympathize more with Cassie over the tension with her father. It seems to me that his really rather recent girlfriend is taking advantage. I could understand him leaving her something, but not everything. The honorable thing to do would be to consult the entire family about what part she (girlfriend) will play in his care and how they can all help each other. I find encouraging estrangement from his family at the end of his life despicable.

[marybennet]

I think Cassie’s boyfriend is right that her response to Jenny is a displacement of her response to the dementia. I’m speaking as someone who had a parent with dementia.  It feels like you’re losing them. And Cassie is blaming Jenny for that loss, an easier fight to pick than with a big abstract thing like cognitive decline. 

[SunnyBeBe]

I empathize with Cassie on her dad too.  For new girlfriend to come in so late in his life and as he is experiencing dementia….well, I disagree with Cassie’s boyfriend. She probably does need a lawyer.  In US Jenny could be accused of exploitation of a vulnerable adult. It’s a form of elder abuse.  Of course, perhaps he’s not incompetent, but he’s vulnerable.  Red flags for sure.  An attorney would likely refuse to make changes in a trust or will under the circumstances, because of the red flags. I wouldn’t touch it. 

If I had my own place like Jenny and and a new relationship with a person with early dementia and existing trust for his family and he told me he wanted to change and include me….I would attribute it to his mental decline and poor judgment.  Isn’t right and I would decline.  

Edited August 10, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[Daff]

13 hours ago, Dessert said:

I admit, I sympathize more with Cassie over the tension with her father. It seems to me that his really rather recent girlfriend is taking advantage. I could understand him leaving her something, but not everything. The honorable thing to do would be to consult the entire family about what part she (girlfriend) will play in his care and how they can all help each other. I find encouraging estrangement from his family at the end of his life despicable.

I don’t think it’s everything. His house was to be divided (I think the phrase was “half the house”-silly) between Cassie and the boys. Except Cassie would receive it immediately but he intended to stipulate that the boys’ share be put in trust until a certain age. He rethought that idea, indicating that the boys didn’t need any handout at all-they should learn to fend for themselves. It is his grandsons he is leaving out, not Cassie-he assured her she’s still getting her half. Half the proceeds from his house plus Cassie’s full retirement amount was supposed to allow her to live worry-free.

[AZChristian]

11 minutes ago, Daff said:

His house was to be divided (I think the phrase was “half the house”-silly) between Cassie and the boys. Except Cassie would receive it immediately but he intended to stipulate that the boys’ share be put in trust until a certain age. He rethought that idea, indicating that the boys didn’t need any handout at all-they should learn to fend for themselves. It is his grandsons he is leaving out, not Cassie-he assured her she’s still getting her half. Half the proceeds from his house plus Cassie’s full retirement amount was supposed to allow her to live worry-free.

The sense I had was that the house belonged to Martin and Cassie 50/50.  Upon his death, his half of the equity would go into trust for the boys.  Martin has now decided that the equity should go to Jenny.  But since they're selling the house now, I assume that he's just going to keep his half of the equity (because he's not dead), and give it to Jenny.

The conversation they had about "we agreed we were going to" is a bit confusing.  She said, "Remember we talked about this?" . . . but then it's not clear that they went ahead and completed the wills (although I suspect they did, and Cassie is upset that he wants to change something that was already agreed upon).

My question is:  What will happen to Cassie's half of the equity?  Is it also set up for her boys to split her half?  

[seasons]

Whoa. That car accident. I felt like something was coming when they showed all the suspects driving.  Deliberately hitting Cassie? 

[AZChristian]

5 hours ago, seasons said:

Whoa. That car accident. I felt like something was coming when they showed all the suspects driving.  Deliberately hitting Cassie? 

I don't think so.  That would leave fingers pointing and a lot of evidence and suspicion that whoever hit her was trying to stop her from finding out what happened 30 years ago.

[Daff]

19 hours ago, AZChristian said:

The sense I had was that the house belonged to Martin and Cassie 50/50.  Upon his death, his half of the equity would go into trust for the boys.  Martin has now decided that the equity should go to Jenny.  But since they're selling the house now, I assume that he's just going to keep his half of the equity (because he's not dead), and give it to Jenny.

The conversation they had about "we agreed we were going to" is a bit confusing.  She said, "Remember we talked about this?" . . . but then it's not clear that they went ahead and completed the wills (although I suspect they did, and Cassie is upset that he wants to change something that was already agreed upon).

My question is:  What will happen to Cassie's half of the equity?  Is it also set up for her boys to split her half?  

You’re right, the situation is muddled, and I just assumed after all the time Cassie and Martin lived in the house it was paid off. But is Cassie selling? I know John wants her to do so, to enable the move for a new job. Kind of a moot point now, though. I believe neither Cassie nor Martin have actually written wills, or consulted a solicitor about drafting one. 

[AZChristian]

56 minutes ago, Daff said:

But is Cassie selling? I know John wants her to do so, to enable the move for a new job.

In one scene, Cassie goes upstairs to get Adam out of bed because "The estate agent (realtor) will be here at 10:00 and we ARE selling this house."

[Mermaid Under]

On 8/9/2021 at 10:57 AM, JudyObscure said:

Ram.  I've gone back and forth on whether I like him, but since his father wont look at him,

I don't like Ram, but I don't understand why his father won't look at him.  Ram expressed his disdain to his brother, who seemed secure and smart enough to ignore him, but the father wasn't  party to that. 

[marybennet]

18 hours ago, Mermaid Under said:

I don't like Ram, but I don't understand why his father won't look at him. 

I've wondered about this, too.  Disappointment that he rejected the family business in favor of being a cop?  A sense of the trail of scandals that Ram has wriggled out of and not believing that Ram has been innocent in relation to them?   Disapproval of Ram's partner (am I right that we haven't seen her visit the family with Ram?)?  Something the last episode will tell us?  Or maybe we'll never know.

I'm a little surprised that we're not talking so much about the Cassie accident.  I'm fretful.  The show is often powerfully bleak, and her life seems a prime example of that.  A bleak ending for her suits the mood of the show.  It has painted her as so harmed by what she's seen that she's unable to be happy, and the plot could be reinforcing that sense.

[peacheslatour]

4 minutes ago, marybennet said:

I've wondered about this, too.  Disappointment that he rejected the family business in favor of being a cop?  A sense of the trail of scandals that Ram has wriggled out of and not believing that Ram has been innocent in relation to them?   Disapproval of Ram's partner (am I right that we haven't seen her visit the family with Ram?)?  Something the last episode will tell us?  Or maybe we'll never know.

I'm a little surprised that we're not talking so much about the Cassie accident.  I'm fretful.  The show is often powerfully bleak, and her life seems a prime example of that.  A bleak ending for her suits the mood of the show.  It has painted her as so harmed by what she's seen that she's unable to be happy, and the plot could be reinforcing that sense.

I guess because it happened at the very end of the episode. All we can do is speculate.

[Kiddvideo]

Well that was a fine send off. She’s in a dark place, desperately holding on for those 3 months, rocky relationship with dad, stress with the son, and boom. Dead.

[Bunnyette]

Wow, very powerful confession by Dean…this is why I love the Brit police dramas

[seasons]

I did not see that coming.

[SunnyBeBe]

I knew it was coming, so I wasn’t surprised. She was so done with that job, it’s a relief. Why the writers couldn’t just let her retire…..?  Idk.

I actually had empathy for  Ram.  The others…. None.  I didn’t buy their words of regret at all.  

I’ll look forward to the next season.  

Edited August 16, 2021 by SunnyBeBe

[janeta]

Yeah, I would have preferred if they just let her retire, too. 😒

[mjc570]

I enjoyed it, including the ending.  I actually felt bad for Ram and Dean, but they did deserve to be punished for they did.  I liked that Elizabeth finally did something for the housekeeper.  I just hope that in all the Cassie grief they don't lose sight of the fact that it was Sunny that actually solved the case.

[EllaWycliffe]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I’ll look forward to the next season.  

Is there going to be one?

It was a gut shot... not quite Matthew Crawley in the car accident  AS THE CHRISTMAS EPISODE but damn.... I wanted her to pull thru. 

Did love the phone call reconciliation with Dad. 

[MrsKravitz]

Sigh, I could have done without the “cop dies just before retirement,” but they did get me with Dean being the murderer. 

[sheetmoss]

4 hours ago, EllaWycliffe said:

Is there going to be one?

It was a gut shot... not quite Matthew Crawley in the car accident  AS THE CHRISTMAS EPISODE but damn.... I wanted her to pull thru. 

Did love the phone call reconciliation with Dad. 

Yes, I heard it was renewed earlier  and again tonight during the  local PBS  fundraising segment after the series  finale