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Season 1-5 Discussion


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42 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

Thinking about this, maybe she wasn't such a bitch before the morning when he wanted to leave.   And she must have thought her marriage was rock solid (or something) as he comes up on her phone as something like "My Gorgeous Hubby" (I don't remember it exactly), which I thought as odd, unless people really do put stuff like that instead of their spouse's name.   My other half gets a big ICE next to his name (and he's lucky it's not PITA instead).  

I took as an indication of how out of touch and clueless she actually is regarding those around her and their feelings. 

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19 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

Maybe she's an insufferable bitch because her husband is an asshole cheater.  

Maybe but either way, I really hope she starts leaving her personal shit at home and her behavior at work improves.  Because insufferable bitch is not interesting to watch.  And that's coming from someone who has, on occasion, been an insufferable bitch.

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I binged season 1. 

Observations:

The actress who plays Cassie also played Gillian on...I can't remember the name of the show, but it was another show I watched, and I kept forgetting Cassie wasn't Gillian. The actress played them both in the exact same way.

Cassie and Sunny (Suni?) always travel and do interviews together, but the rest of their team works solo. 

It was the blonde son who did the murders, wasn't it? He was visiting his mother to continue to torment her, putting her glass just out of reach and gleefully watching her fall as she tries to reach for it. Why did they believe the husband, anyway? He had every incentive to lie, and he'd been lying over and over again. So they try and then convict people on hunches based on whether to believe a suspect who has lied to them over and over again? After allt hat invesigativ  work they did, they just give up and go with the liar's testimony?

Also, it's very convenient that murder victim wallets are found in every case!

Otherwise, I thought the show was well-done. Secrets are terrible. They always make things worse.

But it does bother me that there is a trend in shows nowadays, to spend more time humanizing the criminals than their victims. We get one photo of Jimmy, and we know his mother loved him. But we get all the emotion and flashbacks and backstory in great detail about the people who did wrong.

And the 15 year old who was "in a relationship" (statutory rape at minimum) with the much older priest is not fleshed out at all, and in fact in the end she is blamed for "forcing" the priest to keep a secret that ruined his life, instead of focusing the story on how his taking advantage of her was a choice he made, and how it might have impacted her, not to mention how the murder of her actual boyfriend affected her. The priest was the decent one! Not JoJo! vn hr own daughter says so!

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25 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The actress who plays Cassie also played Gillian on...I can't remember the name of the show, but it was another show I watched, and I kept forgetting Cassie wasn't Gillian. The actress played them both in the exact same way.

Last Tango in Halifax.  Excellent show.

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On 9/4/2023 at 8:28 PM, Irlandesa said:
On 9/4/2023 at 6:55 PM, susannot said:

Hayley Mills is in this?  What character?

She plays the old sick man's wife.  She wasn't in the first episode much.

Since they had to introduce so many story lines (sick old man, addicted couple, restaurateurs, leg in chimney, French airport worker who speaks Polish, new DCI with marital problems), NO ONE was in the episode much!

 

Edited by J-Man
Oops! Included some names from another show.
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Binged Season 2:

I really liked this-- even more than the first season, which I also  liked.

I'm going to handwave the convenience of the body wearing a watch so expensive that it would be able to serve as identification, since this time no wallet was placed for that purpose. I wonder, though, what they will do if they ever have a body that wasn't wealthy or otherwise conveniently identified by carrying blatant artifacts of identification that the murderer doesn't bother to remove.

I will never get over the wigs worn in court in the UK. But that's not the show's fault.

I wonder why they were dredging the river. It didn't seem like the workers who found the suitcase were anticipating it having a body inside.

I am gobsmacked that a watch that cost 1000 pounds (I don't know how to make the symbol with my keyboard) in 1990 was not considered a "premium" watch. I spent $100 on one in the current century and have been happily using it for a decade (and still am using it) and I thought that was expensive!

When I first saw Sara, Colin, and Marion together, I was well and truly shocked.  A real Holy Shit moment. I can't remember the last time a TV show did a reveal that had that impact on me. Kudos to all involved.

Cassie ending her interviews with "just one more thing" makes me think the writers are fans of Columbo, which I heartily approve of. She doesn't play dumb like he did, which I also heartily approve of.

I liked the argument between Sunny and Cassie, about how to regard adults who abuse children.

As ep 6 wore on, I was getting very worried about why they were still so intent on proving the case. I was hoping it was not to prosecute their suspects, but to track down whoever else was involved in the pedophile ring. I was suspecting that Cassie's boss might be part of it, or of a cover up. I also wasn't sure they made an adequate case that the wife was truly not involved in the murder of her husband. They kind of dropped their suspicion of her without really convincing me they had a reason to do so.

I wanted the three to all have happy endings. I think they left it somewhat ambiguous. We don't know how Colin's life turns out-- does he lose his family? I'm glad Marion got her sister back. I'm not sure about what happened to her marriage. And it looked like Sara's husband hugged her, so I guess she's okay.

Many times throughout this season, I thought people behaved very badly. I went back and forth about who was right or wrong in various arguments. The spouses, the suspects, the offspring, the witnesses, Cassie's boss.... the whole situation was portrayed as complex and nobody got to be perfect. Good storytelling. 

I'm not used to having people called "Guv" all the time. It makes me laugh, which I suppose is inappropriate. 

 

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11 hours ago, EtheltoTillie said:

I didn’t recognize Hayley Mills!  Many plot threads to follow, but I’m here for it! We resisted bingeing this evening and stuck with episode 1. 

She appeared in Midsomer and Wild at Heart in the 2000 mid-teens. Face was the same, so I recognized her right away. I congratulate her on carrying her wrinkles with grace. Her hair is longer here, but otherwise she’s unchanged. Maybe she’ll live longer because of it.

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Hayley has the face she's well earned.  She's a Brit treasure, along with Helen, Judi, Maggie, Imelda, etc.  All the Dames who rely on talent & guts, not just looks.  I admire them all.

Many Hollywood actresses simply have the faces they PAID for.  And it's a terrible injustice to women that (they think) it's necessary. 

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I'm not used to having people called "Guv" all the time. It makes me laugh, which I suppose is inappropriate. 

"Bruv" always makes me laugh when guys throw that term at each other....

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Since my insomnia has kicked in full force, I binged Season 3 already. 

I was astonished that none of these wealthy dudes lawyered up until well into the season. I guess that's how TV crime shows work, though I was always told IRL you never ever speak to the cops w/o a lawyer.

They all lie so easily!

The style of questioning on this show is so much different than how it's portrayed in shows set in the USA. There's no good cop/bad cop schtick, no threats and raging, no lying or intimidation on the part of the investigators, not even an attempt to play one suspect off the other. They clearly are not seeking false confessions given under duress. They also don't even attempt to hold people just to make them sweat. I prefer it. Why does the USA worship at the alter of brutality?

Cassie's new boyfriend creeps me out. He has the same affect as the serial killer. It spooks the hell out of me whenever he's on screen, and even moreso when he kissed her on the cheek, then when he said he'd call her after she said no. For her to go to him after dealing with the serial  killer was super chilling, to me.

I am not sure I believe that merely finding out how your loved one died and who did it would be enough to instantly rejuvenate a family, but have not had a sister murdered, so what do I know, really?

I like the yellow roses, with the greenery. It amazes me that we as a species can be anything but awed by the beauty of our planet, and yet we obviously manage to do it. Shows set in the UK always have such gorgeous scenery, or at least the ones I've watched have done so.

It bothered me a bit that Cassie was so undone by the psychopath while Sunny wasn't. They have done a good job of making her competent and not leaning into gender tropes, and I was disappointed to see them veer in that direction now.

 

Edited by possibilities
typos
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1 hour ago, susannot said:

WTF is the matter with Jess?  Is she actually opposed to solving this crime? 

I think she's incompetent and apathetic and an asshole.

She's not handling her marriage issues well either. She has a right to be upset, but she's being petulant, not constructive.

Why didn't Sunny take the job, if they begged him to do so? He clearly is better at it and wants to do it. 

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7 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think she's incompetent and apathetic and an asshole.

She's not handling her marriage issues well either. She has a right to be upset, but she's being petulant, not constructive.

Why didn't Sunny take the job, if they begged him to do so? He clearly is better at it and wants to do it. 

It was too much, too soon.  He's still rocked by Cassie's death.  It isn't clear to me if he wants the top job or if he feels has to take the reins because of the apathy and incompetence of My Gorgeous Hubby's wife.

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Even though it is frustrating, I do like how this show inches along rather than revealing things too quickly.  I can't figure out how the sick man and Hayley, or the multi-lingual not French guy fit into this.  The violent alcoholic mother of the deceased, and the codependent crack addicts seem more likely as suspects.

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It isn't clear to me if he wants the top job or if he feels has to take the reins because of the apathy and incompetence of My Gorgeous Hubby's wife.

He did seem perfectly comfortable leading the team, for someone who turned the job down. He may be doing it as an underhanded F* you to My Gorgeous Hubby, or he may not mind the responsibility, but not want the official title.  I've met a few people  in my career who work like that.  He is good at the work, but doesn't want all the detritus that comes along with being in a higher up position.

Edited by Mermaid Under
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I know the writing wants me to dislike the new lead detective and they are doing an excellent job making me. I understand it is terrible when your marriage falls apart but maybe show some interest in your work and some drive to actually solve the murder. That said, I don't like Sunny much either. As a new viewer he comes across as passive aggressive and petty.

So far I have no clue who among these suspects the killer is.  It's easy to point at the crack head robber - so maybe not him?

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1 hour ago, magdalene said:

I know the writing wants me to dislike the new lead detective and they are doing an excellent job making me. I understand it is terrible when your marriage falls apart but maybe show some interest in your work and some drive to actually solve the murder. That said, I don't like Sunny much either. As a new viewer he comes across as passive aggressive and petty.

So far I have no clue who among these suspects the killer is.  It's easy to point at the crack head robber - so maybe not him?

Right, way too obvious.  He is the right age for Patience's son, however.  But so is the old man's creepy grandson.

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The crack addicts would have been teens when the victim was murdered.  I guess that the male one could be her son, or as I mentioned earlier, they could have witnessed what happened.   

Now that we know that the nasty restaurant person is the victim's mother, it begs the question: who was the victim's father?   Maybe the nasty woman worked at that large fancy house and maybe some rich guy either raped her or had an affair with her (thinking of the old guy with cancer.  And note what he ripped his grandson for).   The old guy has apparently changed his views politically, so what prompted that?  

The French guy - it was mentioned that he had lived in London for a few years (forget if that was on show itself or the commentary they had afterwards).  He could have been one of the squatters.  

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26 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

now that we know that the nasty restaurant person is the victim's mother, it begs the question: who was the victim's father?   Maybe the nasty woman worked at that large fancy house and maybe some rich guy either raped her or had an affair with her (thinking of the old guy with cancer.  And note what he ripped his grandson for).   The old guy has apparently changed his views politically, so what prompted that?  

So many questions about that whole family!

28 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

The French guy - it was mentioned that he had lived in London for a few years (forget if that was on show itself or the commentary they had afterwards).  He could have been one of the squatters.  

Yes, I'm inclined to agree with you that he was one of the squatters.

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13 hours ago, possibilities said:

I think she's incompetent and apathetic and an asshole.

She could at least try to learn her team members' names.  And yeah, if she's gonna insist that all info comes to her first, she needs to be there to get it.  Honestly it's a shame Sunny wasn't ready for the job at the time due to grief, because he's the one who's good at it. If it had been up to My Gorgeous Hubby, they'd have filed it as an old case and moved on.

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3 hours ago, magdalene said:

I know the writing wants me to dislike the new lead detective and they are doing an excellent job making me. I understand it is terrible when your marriage falls apart but maybe show some interest in your work and some drive to actually solve the murder. That said, I don't like Sunny much either. As a new viewer he comes across as passive aggressive and petty.

(From previous seasons I love Sunny. I particularly cheered when Jess implied that he was peevish with her because he wanted her job and didn't get it, and he set her straight on that).

When she told her husband that he knew when he married her that "she was crazy about her job" (or something like that, Ep 2) I could only think that she sure doesn't act like it. I give her a skosh of understanding that her husband leaving her has messed up her interest in doing her job well. I guess we'll see her come around LOL.

2 hours ago, sempervivum said:

I even find myself actively disliking Jess's hair and clothing!

 

I kinda like her hair, but her clothing is very "super modest" and weird to me. 

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16 hours ago, susannot said:

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with the unwanted pregnancy storyline.

 

My guess is that the "unwanted" will wind up being wanted (the lady certainly seemed like she didn't really mind the idea, and neither did Sunny) and the baby, no matter what it's gender is going to be named after Cassie.   And it's going to be for Sunny, well, death happens (Cassie's) but now there will be new Life (the Baby).  I can hear the goopy music now.   Rolling my eyes at the cliche.

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42 minutes ago, 12catcrazy said:

My guess is that the "unwanted" will wind up being wanted (the lady certainly seemed like she didn't really mind the idea, and neither did Sunny

And I got the definite impression that Sunny was not enthusiastic, but that he was warily checking out his partner's vibe. 

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26 minutes ago, sempervivum said:

And I got the definite impression that Sunny was not enthusiastic, but that he was warily checking out his partner's vibe. 

I agree with this. He has a history of putting himself and his wants behind those of others (witness him asking his kids to decide based on their own well-being if he should get back with his ex/their mom when he didn't want to). It's actually something he takes too far, sometimes, so I can see that having the baby could be a mistake and a disaster because he doesn't speak up. At minimum, if she wants it and he doesn't, it could cause trouble in their relationship.

I agree that loving her job seemed far from her current state of mind. Last week, I was giving her a pass on being pissy because she JUST got the news of her husband's affair one second before she had to start her new job. But she needs to get it together and stop making things worse in both the job and the marriage and show SOME positive qualities SOMEWHERE if we're to find her at all sympathetic.

It's just not enjoyable to watch people be unmitigated awful for no purpose.  This show does usually try to redeem most of the characters, at least partly. We usually get to understand at least how they became who they are. But not always. There are sometimes a few throwaway horrible folks. I didn't want Cassie's replacement to take that role, but maybe they think viewers will hate whoever replaces Cassie, so instead of trying to make us like her, they are just going along with making her unlikable.

I have no clue whatsoever about the case, not even a tiny theory. 

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I so enjoy the pattern in this series, have diverse people and moving slowly, giving just enough to entice our curiosity. My guess is that Sunny's girlfriend will decide to have the baby and Sunny will be grudgingly supportive but the baby will be named Cassie and Sunny will be genuinely glad. I'm not surprised they brought in Jess as unlikeable. They've overdone it for me. Maybe if she risks her life to save Sunny's girlfriend's life and delivers little Cassie, I'll like her better. I hope Hayley Mills isn't the killer. 

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21 hours ago, magdalene said:

I know the writing wants me to dislike the new lead detective and they are doing an excellent job making me. I understand it is terrible when your marriage falls apart but maybe show some interest in your work and some drive to actually solve the murder. That said, I don't like Sunny much either. As a new viewer he comes across as passive aggressive and petty.

Last season Sunny was distracted by moving in with Sal, then the death of Cassie, then the proposal to Sal, NOW Sal is obviously knocked up. 

He's been fragmented, they just don't knock us over the head with it.  I'm not a huge fan of his, he's always been the follower, not the leader. 

And they are really using a lot of time & effort to get us to hate Jessie.  Not sure to what end, but I hope it's not just generic boss bashing.    

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1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

And they are really using a lot of time & effort to get us to hate Jessie.  Not sure to what end, but I hope it's not just generic boss bashing.    

I have a theory that since Nicola Walker was so well-liked and was so irreplaceable, the  show runners opted for a totally unlikable, inept, and apathetic replacement so Sunny would be compelled to take the offer to lead the squad in season 6.

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2 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I have a theory that since Nicola Walker was so well-liked and was so irreplaceable, the  show runners opted for a totally unlikable, inept, and apathetic replacement so Sunny would be compelled to take the offer to lead the squad in season 6.

If that's the eventual case, then I'll be out for that season.  I have zero interest in having Sunny run the squad.  

Frankly, I can't remember the names of most of the team.  (Which strangely, is not a problem I have with "The Chelsea Detective".  I love Max, Ashley & Layla!)

A dynamic group has got to have a dynamic lead.  That's not Sunny for me.  He just doesn't seem to inspire anything other than bland familiarity.  

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4 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I have a theory that since Nicola Walker was so well-liked and was so irreplaceable, the  show runners opted for a totally unlikable, inept, and apathetic replacement so Sunny would be compelled to take the offer to lead the squad in season 6.

I'd endorse that.

1 hour ago, SnapHappy said:

A dynamic group has got to have a dynamic lead. 

Absolutely not true, imo.  A leader doesn't have to be dynamic to be good at their job.  They do, however, have to be both competent, able to see the bigger picture and capable of delegating, none of which describes My Gorgeous Hubby so far.

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2 hours ago, SnapHappy said:

A dynamic group has got to have a dynamic lead.  That's not Sunny for me.  He just doesn't seem to inspire anything other than bland familiarity.  

Respectfully disagree.

17 minutes ago, proserpina65 said:

A leader doesn't have to be dynamic to be good at their job.  They do, however, have to be both competent, able to see the bigger picture and capable of delegating, none of which describes My Gorgeous Hubby so far.

Right, Vera Stanhope is one of my favorite TV detectives, she's annoying, clever and determined to get her killer, but alas, she is not dynamic.

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I don't defend or argue my personal opinions. However, I will CLARIFY my use of the word dynamic:

adjective

dy·nam·ic dī-ˈna-mik 

Synonyms of dynamic

1

a: marked by usually continuous and productive activity or change

a dynamic city

b: ENERGETIC, FORCEFUL

I was not talking about somebody with a sparkling wit or a bright & winning personality to be a professional cheerleader. Above is exactly the word I felt would describe the successful head of the team.  And felt it described Cassie.  

And does NOT describe Sunny. 

Now I'm done with this.  

 

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Just injecting my thoughts on Sunny (and full disclosure, I've watched the whole season 'cause I have Passport-- and IMHO it's good!)

Perhaps it showed up more in later episodes, but Sunny showed a "slow burn" in pushing the case forward. I won't say more, as I don't know how the "no spoilers" rule works with "mixed rollout" like this show. I think PBS has only showed two episodes "live"? But the threads got meshed, and personality arcs arced, etc.

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Binged Season 4. 

Wow. Emotionally intense, I really got caught up in it.

I think this show does a good job of showing how messy and complicated things are. An unsympathetic victim. A lot of really big mistakes made by people who are just flat out messy and flawed, but not overall the wrst people you'd imagine when you think of a murder and a cover up.

Why did the one guy keep the body, though??? That is the creepiest and most nonsensical thing ever. 

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4 hours ago, possibilities said:

Why did the one guy keep the body, though??? That is the creepiest and most nonsensical thing ever. 

I don't recall this from the first 2 episodes - is this something learned from watching on Passport? Please do not post any spoilers.

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Even though this show only started airing in the US, it has aired in its entirety in the UK.  

Open discussion of every episode (no spoiler tags) is allowed.  

If you'd like to let others decide whether or not they want to read your post without being spoiled, you may indicate which episode you're talking about.  If people haven't seen that episode, they can skip your post.

 

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FYI, since there is such a split in when people watch this, and we do have a lot of discussion, I've gone ahead and put in a request for a full forum with episode threads...etc.

I don't know when it'll get created so, for the time being, follow the mod directive above.  At the time a forum is created, I'll lay out the guidelines on how to navigate it. 

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1 hour ago, Door County Cherry said:

FYI, since there is such a split in when people watch this, and we do have a lot of discussion, I've gone ahead and put in a request for a full forum with episode threads...etc.

I don't know when it'll get created so, for the time being, follow the mod directive above.  At the time a forum is created, I'll lay out the guidelines on how to navigate it. 

Thank you. 

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The show runners have been very smart in at least one regard with the new season. They knew that viewers were going to hate whoever Nicola Walker's replacement was, because she's not Nicola Walker. So they made the character unlikable, at least in the first couple episodes. There's nothing more fatal for a show than telling the audience they're supposed to like someone they just don't like.

I have no doubt the writers are headed to redemption for her, but to start out with some congruence between the audience's feelings and the writers' intention is shrewd.

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5 hours ago, proserpina65 said:

this does not describe Sunny as it relates to his work performance.

He is a hard worker, driven by a passion for justice no matter how delayed. However, something in Episode 2 of this season aroused my curiosity. (Maybe it will be explained by later episodes.) Why did he consistently refuse to take over leadership of the team? Because he's in mourning? He knew that somebody was going to get the gig, and that almost certainly he wouldn't like them as much as he liked Cassie. So something about him is more comfortable taking orders than giving them.

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21 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

He is a hard worker, driven by a passion for justice no matter how delayed. However, something in Episode 2 of this season aroused my curiosity. (Maybe it will be explained by later episodes.) Why did he consistently refuse to take over leadership of the team? Because he's in mourning? He knew that somebody was going to get the gig, and that almost certainly he wouldn't like them as much as he liked Cassie. So something about him is more comfortable taking orders than giving them.

Or maybe something else. My curiosity is aroused too, but I'm hoping for something more dramatic. 

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25 minutes ago, MMEButterfly said:

Or maybe something else. My curiosity is aroused too, but I'm hoping for something more dramatic

I watched the whole season, and AFAICR that question was not answered.

Edited by dleighg
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Jess gets a tiny bit more likable this week. She seems interested in solving the case all of a sudden, and isn't even doing it the cheapest way. I wonder if we're meant to think that the complaint Sunny made has got her boss to warn her, or if she magically turned it around herself. 

It does beg the question of why they didn't have Fran get promoted, since apparently that's what Sunny wanted.

All the suspects look guiltier this week, except the heroin addict/son. Do they usually rule anybody out so soon?

 

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OK we find out that LA is Lord Hume, Tory bastard.  Jess hates him too because her local library closed.  He was around the squat at the right time and recognizes the deceased girl in a flashback.  He is investigating a Swiss suicide trip but maybe justice will catch up with him first.

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Season 5 Episode 3

Sunny's fiancee is pregnant and he's promised to be home that night to discuss whether they both want to continue the pregnancy. IIRC, he's already avoided speaking with her. 

Instead, he heads off to interview a suspect in Paris.  This couldn't have waited until morning?  It's not as if Karol, the suspect, was about to flee.

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