Unpopular Opinions

[Spartan Girl]

Call Me By Your Name was overrated.

[festivus]

1 hour ago, Spartan Girl said:

Call Me By Your Name was overrated.

I read the book and was not impressed so I haven't felt the urge to watch this anytime soon. I will eventually. I hope it's better than the book.

[Shannon L.]

I hated Call Me By Your Name (while still able to admit that Timothee Chalamet was really good in the role) and thought it was really creepy to the point of disturbing.  I think that was mostly because of the actors cast as the two leads, though.

[dmeets]

Yeah, while Timothee Chalamet pulled off Ezio's age (17?), Armie Hammer just doesn't look like someone who's mid-twenties.

It's probably been mentioned here, but IMO Armie never should have been a thing to begin with. So he played twins who shared scenes together, big deal. There was nothing distinguishable between the two "Winklevi" in Social Network so I'm not sure why he got so much credit for the role(s). Praise the film's special effects team, sure, but the amount of buzz he got was almost as inexplicable as Hollywood's (up til now) insistence on making him a thing. Guess that's probably moot now. Personally I was done with him after he tried to school everyone on the proper way to mourn Stan Lee.

[pancake bacon]

6 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Call Me By Your Name was overrated.

I was not feeling the OMG-great-epic love story. Huh? 

The only good part was Michael Stuhlbarg's speech. 

[Irlandesa]

11 hours ago, festivus said:

I read the book and was not impressed so I haven't felt the urge to watch this anytime soon. I will eventually. I hope it's better than the book.

I thought the book captured that feeling of an intense short lived coming-of-age sexual/romantic awakening that you know will come to an end yet sort of have a lingering....what if about it.  It was messy but it resonated.

The movie didn't capture that.  Its strength was in the performances of Chalamet, Stuhlbarg and Amira Casar.  And the scenery. 

The age difference didn't bother me but the chemistry just wasn't where I had hoped it would be.

So no, I don't think the movie was better.  But then, I liked the book.  For some, maybe it was.

[kiddo82]

I hate to compare the two as if they should be pitted against each other, but despite being very similar, the ending of Portait of a Lady on Fire hit me 1000x harder than Call Me By Your Name.  In fact the whole movie did and I can't really put my finger on why.

 

Also, Portait of a Lady on Fire should have been in the foreign language category at last year's Oscars and it should have won over Parasite.

Edited February 26, 2021 by kiddo82

[Blergh]

Speaking of Portrait of a Lady on Fire, I have to wonder if Marianne may have been able to imagine the possibility that Heloise could possibly have found contentment and perhaps happiness in her marriage and with her child even though she had earlier expressed preferring to die young than having had to have gone through this arrangement made by her female DNA Donor.  I guess the question that Marianne needed to ask herself was whether she would have preferred to imagine that Heloise could possibly  happy even if she herself couldn't be with her or would Marianne have preferred that her onetime lover have done nothing but go through the motions while spending the rest of her existence pining away for Marianne.

[Ms Blue Jay]

On 2/25/2021 at 3:58 PM, dmeets said:

Yeah, while Timothee Chalamet pulled off Ezio's age (17?), Armie Hammer just doesn't look like someone who's mid-twenties.

It's probably been mentioned here, but IMO Armie never should have been a thing to begin with. So he played twins who shared scenes together, big deal. There was nothing distinguishable between the two "Winklevi" in Social Network so I'm not sure why he got so much credit for the role(s). Praise the film's special effects team, sure, but the amount of buzz he got was almost as inexplicable as Hollywood's (up til now) insistence on making him a thing. Guess that's probably moot now. Personally I was done with him after he tried to school everyone on the proper way to mourn Stan Lee.

He was also horrible on Gossip Girl.

On 2/17/2021 at 6:57 PM, Ambrosefolly said:

For Edge of Seventeen. Nadine was a brat, I am not disputing that. I don't blame blame Krista for choosing Darian over Nadine when she gave that ultimatum. However, I thought Darian had a lot more malice and resentment towards Nadine that he was willing to admit to. He took too much glee for my liking when Nadine confronted him about hooking up with her friends and smirked that Krista was her only friend. I don't doubt Darian living up to being honor student, perfect son and star athlete was stressful for him. I fanwank that he was jealous of Nadine because she didn't have to any of the stuff Darian had to do but still miaintained a true friend in Krista, even if she was her only one Nadine had. On some level, I believe he wanted what Nadine had and loved that he managed to take that away from her. 

I really dislike this movie and one of the biggest reasons is that Hailee Steinfeld has quite a multicultural background but the movie whitewashed her and her entire family.  The rave reviews for this movie are completely mind-boggling to me.  Same with "Lady Bird".  The main character is just flat out racist to her adoptive brother.

Quote

Steinfeld's father is Jewish, and her mother is Christian.[7][8][9][10] Her maternal grandfather, Ricardo Domasin, was of half Filipino (from Panglao, Bohol)[5] and half African-American descent.[11][12][13] 

 

Edited February 27, 2021 by Ms Blue Jay

[kiddo82]

On 2/26/2021 at 5:36 PM, Blergh said:

Speaking of Portrait of a Lady on Fire, I have to wonder if Marianne may have been able to imagine the possibility that Heloise could possibly have found contentment and perhaps happiness in her marriage and with her child even though she had earlier expressed preferring to die young than having had to have gone through this arrangement made by her female DNA Donor.  I guess the question that Marianne needed to ask herself was whether she would have preferred to imagine that Heloise could possibly  happy even if she herself couldn't be with her or would Marianne have preferred that her onetime lover have done nothing but go through the motions while spending the rest of her existence pining away for Marianne.

We don't ever know ourselves if Heloise did find some satisfaction with her life away from Marianne.  But the question of what Marianne wished for Heloise, whether it ever became true or not, is an interesting one.  I guess it goes back to Solomon.  If you really love someone you care more about their own wellness than yours.  Yes, neither of them willfully chose to be separated for the benefit of the other, but I think the principle still applies.  Years had passed and I like to think that Marianne wanted to believe that Heloise was at least at peace with her life.  Completely different but still somewhat relevant is the Bachelor/Bachelorette franchise.  It baffles me how all these contestants go on and claim they are "in love" with the star of any given season (after spending five minutes together but whatever) and then bitch about the other contestants.  I'm like, if you really did care about this person whom you claim to love, bashing the relationship that he or she has with someone else isn't the best way of showing it.  But oh, you're just here to hook up and maybe win a contest.  Not that I judge that, but let's call a spade a spade.*

*Obviously I think that Marianne and Heliose's relationship in Portrait is more pure than anything from the Bachelor.  Neither of them entered into it to get Instagram famous.  But I was just having that Bachelor conversation with a friend of mine and it seemed strangely, if only tangentially, analogous to this one.

On 2/27/2021 at 4:33 AM, Ms Blue Jay said:

I really dislike this movie and one of the biggest reasons is that Hailee Steinfeld has quite a multicultural background but the movie whitewashed her and her entire family.  The rave reviews for this movie are completely mind-boggling to me.  Same with "Lady Bird".  The main character is just flat out racist to her adoptive brother.

 

I was never high on Lady Bird.  I liked it well enough but never bought the hype.  It may be because I just didn't find the titular character likable.  There's a fine line between crafting a relatable flawed character and someone who's kind of a jerk.  Christine/Lady Bird falls into the latter category for me.  And it's not that we can't have people who are "kind of a jerk" as protagonists and even root for them, but the movie has to be aware of that and call them out for that.  I think this is where Gerwig failed with the movie.

Edited February 28, 2021 by kiddo82

[Shannon L.]

2 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

I was never high on Lady Bird.  I liked it well enough but never bought the hype.  It may be because I just didn't find the titular character likable.  There's a fine line between crafting a relatable flawed character and someone who's kind of a jerk.  Christine/Lady Bird falls into the latter category for me.  And it's not that we can't have people who are "kind of a jerk" as protagonists and even root for them, but the movie has to be aware of that and call them out for that.  I think this is where Gerwig failed with the movie.

I didn't care for it, either.  IIRC, at the end, she realized how much she loved the place she grew up, even though she said she hated it and couldn't wait to leave?  That always bothers me, too.  It's ok to be happy with your new life.  I hated the town I grew up in and couldn't wait to leave.  Sometimes, I'm nostalgic for the things that happened there, but not the town or the people.  I miss my parents terribly, but after they're gone, I'll never set foot in that town again once I've taken care of whatever business I need to tend to. 

[katha]

I liked "Lady Bird" and the acting was outstanding, but yeah, the cringe factor for the character's actions was sometimes very high, sometimes in situations where I think the audience was supposed to feel for her. The core selfishness rang very true for a teenager. I did think her perceiving herself as "poor" was somewhat alienating, when they lived in a pretty nice house and she went to a good school and her parents sprung for an expensive college education in the end. I'm never sure if that was the character not understanding money or Gerwig not understanding money, heh. The quaint way she portrayed "poverty" in "Little Women" was also a bit weird after going on about how authentic the movie is supposed to be.

Noah Baumbauch, on the other hand, really, really doesn't understand money and it often creates really jarring moments in otherwise good movies. Like the young couple in "While We're Young" living in this absurd big loft in NYC when he's a film student and she makes ice cream, giving them a room mate doesn't make it "relatable." Or in "Frances Ha", when the title character lives in various nice appartments in NYC even though she is a failed dancer and then works as a part-time clerk and the main storyline is how "poor" she is. Or in "Marriage Story", when Nicole's family has a big house in the LA suburbs and she can buy herself a big house in the LA suburbs. Is she a millionaire? Or Charlie who can keep an appartment in both NYC and LA. And they both can burn ridiculous money on obscenely greedy lawyers. Yet we're supposed to have sympathy for their "problems" LOL. I mean, you can have sympathy for Baumbach characters, but need to totally ignore the magical financial set-up in all his films.

Edited February 27, 2021 by katha

[Ambrosefolly]

10 hours ago, Ms Blue Jay said:

I really dislike this movie and one of the biggest reasons is that Hailee Steinfeld has quite a multicultural background but the movie whitewashed her and her entire family.  The rave reviews for this movie are completely mind-boggling to me.  Same with "Lady Bird".  The main character is just flat out racist to her adoptive brother.

Blake Jenner (Darian) is of Cuban descent, on his mother's side. I am Indian and my sister has two bi-racial daughters. Her oldest look very white, almost exactly like her Italian descent mother-in-law with fair skin and facial features, but her second has a tanner complexion and shares most of her facial features with our side of the family. 

[Shannon L.]

I'm kind of neutral on Edge of Seventeen.  The acting was good and parts of it were funny while other parts were sad, but I never felt the urge to see it again.  I do, however, think that Woody Harrelson was the best part of the movie.  But, then again, I like the trope of the quirky teacher who cares to the point of going above and beyond.  See also:  Thomas Haden Church in Easy A.

[AimingforYoko]

On 2/28/2021 at 9:52 AM, Shannon L. said:

I do, however, think that Woody Harrelson was the best part of the movie.

You knew he was a good dude when he immediately called Nadine on using her dead dad for an excuse.

[Crs97]

This is a hilarious article on the 2005 adaptation of Pride & Prejudice.  Don’t know it is an UO, but it is pure gold:  https://ladygilraen.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/dont-even-bother-arguing-pride-and-prejudice-2005-sucks/?fbclid=IwAR3X7l5k3tlIFt7KCr64YusfW5px4eJ7OBJPK9eO96TfPhxYkhFa0Se55fU

[Ohiopirate02]

4 hours ago, Crs97 said:

This is a hilarious article on the 2005 adaptation of Pride & Prejudice.  Don’t know it is an UO, but it is pure gold:  https://ladygilraen.wordpress.com/2013/04/18/dont-even-bother-arguing-pride-and-prejudice-2005-sucks/?fbclid=IwAR3X7l5k3tlIFt7KCr64YusfW5px4eJ7OBJPK9eO96TfPhxYkhFa0Se55fU

That's right up there with the Frock Flicks review of that adaptation.  Multiple articles over there about Pride & Prejudice & Pigs.  

http://www.frockflicks.com/snark-week-11-reasons-irritated-pride-prejudice-2005/

 

I personally dislike the 2005 adaptation because Kiera Knightley is not Jane Austen's Elizabeth Bennett.  

[Crs97]

I didn't like Keira or Matthew, who reduced Darcy's complexity to "he is just shy."  Rolling my eyes.

[BlackberryJam]

 Is it really unpopular to hate the 2005 version? I don’t know one person who liked it. 

Those articles were hilarious and spot on.

[scarynikki12]

I like it but then I'm not an Austen fan. I enjoy Emma and that's it. So, since I can live without book P&P, I'm able to enjoy the movie without issue.

[Irlandesa]

3 hours ago, BlackberryJam said:

 Is it really unpopular to hate the 2005 version? I don’t know one person who liked it. 

Those articles were hilarious and spot on.

I think time has perhaps dulled its allure but there were definitely fans of the "sexier" adaptation at the time.  I remember seeing swooning online over it.  It also probably reached a new group of people who may not have seen an adaptation before.  There's something inherently more accessible about a two hour movie compared to a six hour mini-series for a lot of people.

But as time goes on, other things have come out to swoon over and nothing in the movie has had quite the staying power of Firth's Darcy coming out of the pond wet.  My local PBS station just reran that miniseries--a 25-year-old mini-series- in the Sunday prime time slot where they usually run new shows.

I would bet people who liked the movie then would still say they liked it now but probably aren't as passionate as they were 15 years ago.  It didn't work for me. I felt it was too soon after the mini-series and actually felt longer than the mini-series even though it was actually shorter. '

But if I'm being honest, I'll also confess that P&P probably isn't my favorite Austen when it comes to adaptations.

 

[Razzberry]

Rebel Without a Cause is overrated, benefiting from the death of James Dean right before it opened.  There, I said it.  The kids are cliche, the parents cardboard cutouts with no depth.   Director Nicholas Ray partly based these troubled youths on a "gang" of ex child actors from Hollywood High who neither smoked nor drank but allegedly had a lot of "teen angst". 

Right off the bat I had issues identifying with or caring about them, starting with Plato the Puppy Killer.  If he had shown some remorse or even interest in the question, I may have cared.  But he doesn't, so I don't.

Jimmy looks like he's been held back a few grades in school, but blames his parents for everything.  There's not a tear in his eye in this scene, so how torn up could he really be?

We learn that Jimmy is so troubled that his family is on the move constantly, presumably whenever Jimmy gets overly dramatic.  Something to do with his Dad wearing an apron.

Look under 'H' for Hamilton, Alexander and Son.

Meanwhile, Natalie Wood is creeping out her father, who's emotionally distant.  News At 11:00.

According to Nicholas Ray's biography, the almost 50 year old director was banging the underage Wood at the time.  Dennis Hopper was grossed out and had words with him about it, to no avail.  You'd think if Dennis Hopper is concerned about your behavior, perhaps it's time to dial it back, but no.

 

[Wiendish Fitch]

13 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Rebel Without a Cause is overrated, benefiting from the death of James Dean right before it opened.  There, I said it.  The kids are cliche, the parents cardboard cutouts with no depth.   Director Nicholas Ray partly based these troubled youths on a "gang" of ex child actors from Hollywood High who neither smoked nor drank but allegedly had a lot of "teen angst". 

Right off the bat I had issues identifying with or caring about them, starting with Plato the Puppy Killer.  If he had shown some remorse or even interest in the question, I may have cared.  But he doesn't, so I don't.

Jimmy looks like he's been held back a few grades in school, but blames his parents for everything.  There's not a tear in his eye in this scene, so how torn up could he really be?

We learn that Jimmy is so troubled that his family is on the move constantly, presumably whenever Jimmy gets overly dramatic.  Something to do with his Dad wearing an apron.

Look under 'H' for Hamilton, Alexander and Son.

Meanwhile, Natalie Wood is creeping out her father, who's emotionally distant.  News At 11:00.

According to Nicholas Ray's biography, the almost 50 year old director was banging the underage Wood at the time.  Dennis Hopper was grossed out and had words with him about it, to no avail.  You'd think if Dennis Hopper is concerned about your behavior, perhaps it's time to dial it back, but no.

 

THANK YOU. The mythos and acclaim for Rebel Without a Cause baffles the ever living hell out of me. I'm usually very forgiving in regards to cheesy datedness of old movies, but Rebel Without a Cause is so ridiculous, I'll go out on a limb and say it's on par with the "troubled teen" movies lampooned on Mystery Science Theatre 3000!

Nicholas Ray was disgusting, and the fact that Dennis Hopper (hardly a boy scout himself) called him out on it is just shocking. 

Plato is sick, and Jim and Judy need to buck the hell up. There, I said it. 

P.S. For the record, I never, ever found James Dean attractive or even a particularly good actor.

Edited April 11, 2021 by Wiendish Fitch

[kiddo82]

"YOU'RE TEARING ME APART!" is so eye rollingly bad both in concept and its melodramatic execution by Mr. Dean.  It's not nearly the misunderstood teen rallying cry it's been made out to be.

[Mabinogia]

1 hour ago, kiddo82 said:

"YOU'RE TEARING ME APART!" is so eye rollingly bad both in concept and its melodramatic execution by Mr. Dean.  It's not nearly the misunderstood teen rallying cry it's been made out to be.

That screenshot of him though is priceless. 

I've never actually seen the movie, and now I really have no interest. 

I think the movie and the career James Dean both benefited from James Dean dying young. I doubt anyone would really remember either of them if he hadn't. I'm not saying it's good he died young. It's tragic, but I doubt he would have had a long career and that movie certainly wouldn't have just faded away if there wasn't the whole tragic young man died tragically young story to keep people interested. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I really believe that, had James Dean lived, how would have been viewed as a premature relic by the time the 1960s got rolling, and he would have been playing some cheesy villain on the campy Batman TV series (if he were lucky!) or slumming it in low-budget comedies with Mickey Rooney or Jackie Gleason.

Here's a more positive UO:

The Jeanette MacDonald/Nelson Eddy musicals were fine, nowhere near as wretched as their reputation suggests (Maytime is actually quite lovely). And Nelson Eddy was not that bad an actor! Even if he was stiff sometimes, so was Joel McCrea, and critics just adore him!

[Danny Franks]

22 hours ago, kiddo82 said:

"YOU'RE TEARING ME APART!" is so eye rollingly bad both in concept and its melodramatic execution by Mr. Dean.  It's not nearly the misunderstood teen rallying cry it's been made out to be.

I think we should try to view everything within its original context, and Rebel Without a Cause was released in 1956, just as the idea of teens as an entity was starting to coalesce.

It came to represent misunderstood teens so strongly because it was one of the first things to ever say "these are teens and they might be misunderstood." If it had come out five years later, then it probably wouldn't be nearly as well remembered as it is.

I'd say the same goes for Dean's acting, which was part of the new wave of method acting, which emerged in the 1950s. Not to the level of modern day method acting, where Daniel Day Lewis will go and live under a bridge for three months, to learn how to play a homeless person or whatever, but the idea of staying in character between takes and using spontaneous choices to inform your performance. This was new to the motion picture industry, and they marketed it as such to attract young audiences who might not be as interested in seeing dusty old theatrical actors trot out the same old thing, every movie. 

Dean, Brando, Montgomery Clift, Paul Newman and others were revolutionary to the industry, and I'm sure their portrayals of tortured emotion, which seem very hammy and melodramatic to modern audiences, were genuinely shocking to audiences in the 1950s. Some of it, like Rebel Without a Cause, has aged very badly, but some of those films really have passed the test of time.

Dean himself might have aged badly too, if he'd aged at all. If you compare his performances to Brando in On The Waterfront, then he doesn't come off as subtle actor at all, and his career might have staggered into the 1960s before he was relegated to B-movies. But that's part of the mythos, isn't it? He died before he got old, and before anyone really knew if he was any good.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Danny Franks

[Blergh]

19 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I've said it before, I'll say it again: I really believe that, had James Dean lived, how would have been viewed as a premature relic by the time the 1960s got rolling, and he would have been playing some cheesy villain on the campy Batman TV series (if he were lucky!) or slumming it in low-budget comedies with Mickey Rooney or Jackie Gleason.

Here's a more positive UO:

The Jeanette MacDonald/Nelson Eddy musicals were fine, nowhere near as wretched as their reputation suggests (Maytime is actually quite lovely). And Nelson Eddy was not that bad an actor! Even if he was stiff sometimes, so was Joel McCrea, and critics just adore him!

Well, I think had James Dean lived, his somewhat surly attitude and . . less refined habits would have caught up with him in the next few years to turn  off audiences of that era. Although, Jared Leto's persona is not that different from him so he might have fit in better in these times. Even his contemporary Montgomery Clift didn't fare so well into the 1960's (and I don't think it was solely due to the accident).

Thanks for bringing up Miss MacDonald and Mr. Eddy! They were quite the team with Miss MacDonald having an incredibly acrobatic soprano that only Deanna Durbin would come near.  What's sadly ironic is that they did indeed have a torrid, romantic bond offscreen  that lasted long after their stardom but wound up getting (and staying) unhappily married to other folks.

[Wiendish Fitch]

Just now, Blergh said:

Thanks for bringing up Miss MacDonald and Mr. Eddy! They were quite the team with Miss MacDonald having an incredibly acrobatic soprano that only Deanna Durbin would come near.  

Deanna Durbin is too underrated, one of my faves.

What I loved about her and Miss MacDonald is how fun they made operatic singing sound! Not just pretty, not just lyrical, but fun. They brought such a joy and energy to their singing that was so infectious. I could listen to Durbin singing "Spring in My Heart" or MacDonald's rendition of "Lover" (I'm so glad Love Me Tonight is recognized as the great musical it is) all day long.

Look, while many of the MacDonald/Eddy parodies are genuinely funny (Wayne and Wanda from The Muppet Show, the song "Nelson" from A Day in Hollywood/A Night in the Ukraine come to mind), I don't think they're entirely fair or accurate. Again, IMO, Eddy was not that dull an actor, and MacDonald never came off as an uptight prima donna (who knows, maybe she was in real life, but it never showed onscreen). 

[Razzberry]

Cary Grant had a UO about Method acting that he shared back in the day.

"I have no rapport with the new idols of the screen, and that includes Marlon Brando and his style of Method acting. It certainly includes Montgomery Clift and that God-awful James Dean. Some producer should cast all three of them in the same movie and let them duke it out."

That still makes me laugh.  Clift had been signed to do Sunset Boulevard but pulled out because he couldn't do a love scene with someone as old as Norma Desmond, he said.  Isn't that basic acting?  William Holden had no such problem, thank God.

[Danny Franks]

30 minutes ago, Razzberry said:

Cary Grant had a UO about Method acting that he shared back in the day.

"I have no rapport with the new idols of the screen, and that includes Marlon Brando and his style of Method acting. It certainly includes Montgomery Clift and that God-awful James Dean. Some producer should cast all three of them in the same movie and let them duke it out."

That still makes me laugh.  Clift had been signed to do Sunset Boulevard but pulled out because he couldn't do a love scene with someone as old as Norma Desmond, he said.  Isn't that basic acting?  William Holden had no such problem, thank God.

I always like the story about Dustin Hoffman and Laurence Olivier on Marathon Man, where Hoffman's character needed to be out of breath so he ran around the set a bunch of times. Olivier said "my dear boy, why don't you just try acting?"

Method acting seems to be an exercise in narcissism and self importance a lot of the time. I don't know that there's any evidence it produces better performances, but I would bet that being on set with a strict method actor is a lot less fun than being on set with a normal person.

Also, isn't it strange that we so rarely hear about method actresses? Do they not see the need for all the pompous nonsense around it, or have women perhaps not been given the leeway to be surly and difficult on set?

[Wiendish Fitch]

Seriously, screw method acting. Just know your lines, believe in what you're saying, and you'll be just dandy. Hell, Lon Chaney reassured a young actress he was working with that if she needed to use glycerin for tears, there was no shame in it, and I agree with him (hey, crying on cue is harder than it looks).

I've heard some call Lillian Gish the real inventor of "modern screen acting", and I completely agree with that.

 

16 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

Also, isn't it strange that we so rarely hear about method actresses? Do they not see the need for all the pompous nonsense around it, or have women perhaps not been given the leeway to be surly and difficult on set?

I remember an article pointing out that the best method actor was Gena Rowlands, who, on top of being a superb actress, was an absolute professional, and a good friend, mother and wife to boot. She didn't have to do gross, dangerous, downright sociopathic shit to inhabit her characters.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Wiendish Fitch

[Kel Varnsen]

51 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

always like the story about Dustin Hoffman and Laurence Olivier on Marathon Man, where Hoffman's character needed to be out of breath so he ran around the set a bunch of times. Olivier said "my dear boy, why don't you just try acting?"

I thought it was that Hoffman's character had gone days with no sleep so Hoffman stayed up all night before shooting the scene. But either way Olivier's comment holds, if you can't make me believe you are exhausted without actually being exhaust maybe you aren't a good actor.

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

I remember an article pointing out that the best method actor was Gena Rowlands, who, on top of being a superb actress, was an absolute professional, and a good friend, mother and wife to boot. She didn't have to do gross, dangerous, downright sociopathic shit to inhabit her characters.

Same with Tyne Daly.  I don't recall horror stories about Shelley Winters, either.

There is absolutely nothing inherently wrong with method acting; different processes work best for different actors.  Men using it as an excuse for bad behavior is a problem with the men, not the process.

Edited April 12, 2021 by Bastet

[Mabinogia]

2 hours ago, Wiendish Fitch said:

Hell, Lon Chaney reassured a young actress he was working with that if she needed to use glycerin for tears, there was no shame in it, and I agree with him (hey, crying on cue is harder than it looks).

And bringing true emotion to fake tears is acting at it's finest. Seriously, it's easy to seem emotional when you're actually crying, it takes skill to show that emotion with glycerin running down your cheeks. 

[Wiendish Fitch]

1 hour ago, Mabinogia said:

And bringing true emotion to fake tears is acting at it's finest. Seriously, it's easy to seem emotional when you're actually crying, it takes skill to show that emotion with glycerin running down your cheeks. 

My God, that is almost poetic. Thank you for that, Mabinogia.

[kiddo82]

9 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I think we should try to view everything within its original context, and Rebel Without a Cause was released in 1956, just as the idea of teens as an entity was starting to coalesce.

It came to represent misunderstood teens so strongly because it was one of the first things to ever say "these are teens and they might be misunderstood." If it had come out five years later, then it probably wouldn't be nearly as well remembered as it is.

I'd say the same goes for Dean's acting, which was part of the new wave of method acting, which emerged in the 1950s. Not to the level of modern day method acting, where Daniel Day Lewis will go and live under a bridge for three months, to learn how to play a homeless person or whatever, but the idea of staying in character between takes and using spontaneous choices to inform your performance. This was new to the motion picture industry, and they marketed it as such to attract young audiences who might not be as interested in seeing dusty old theatrical actors trot out the same old thing, every movie. 

That's a fair point but it's still nails on a chalkboard for me.  What's interesting is I really don't have the same complaint for Brando and Newman and Clift. 

[Blergh]

9 hours ago, Bastet said:

 .  I don't recall horror stories about Shelley Winters, either.

 

I wish I could say the same. Although I know this is  but one source (and one must always consider the source/s re any stories), according to Brady Bunch performer Barry Williams, he was due to be cast in Wild in the Streets (1968) as the protagonist as a teen with Miss Winters as his mother .Since it turned out that his eye color didn't match the performer who played his character as an adult, he was dropped and his own part was cast with someone else . Before that happened,  he did perform one scene with her in which his  teen character was supposed to mouth off at her - and she was supposed to slap him in response. He claims that he thought she would do a 'stagey' slap with little actual contact between her hand and his face but with a very loud noise. However, he said that Miss Winters's slap was so Method-ly intense that he saw stars and thought he was going to pass out.  .  Oh, and he also related that he'd heard through the grapevine in her earlier days, she was asked to enact 'a private moment' which she did via stepping on the stage,lifting her skirts, then depositing her actual feces on stage, then redressing her skirts, pretending to flush but leaving the deposit for someone else to clean up. OK, the first one he related seemed to have been a firsthand account on his part but the second one seems to have been gossip so judge each story on its own possible validity and whether one may consider that if it hashes up with what one has reason to already believe about the late Miss Winters. 

Edited April 13, 2021 by Blergh

[Danny Franks]

32 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

That's a fair point but it's still nails on a chalkboard for me.  What's interesting is I really don't have the same complaint for Brando and Newman and Clift. 

I think they were all better than Dean. Less histrionic, able to do more with facial expressions and quiet reactions. Certainly Brando and Newman were, and Paul Newman is one of my favourite actors.

I don't think it's an unpopular opinion to say that Newman is one of the coolest men ever. Actor, philanthropist, race car driver, progressive activist, married faithfully to Joanne Woodward for fifty years. I don't know that anyone has a bad word to say about him.

[Wiendish Fitch]

44 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

 

I don't think it's an unpopular opinion to say that Newman is one of the coolest men ever. Actor, philanthropist, race car driver, progressive activist, married faithfully to Joanne Woodward for fifty years. I don't know that anyone has a bad word to say about him.

Amen to all of that!

Back to method actors, Rod Steiger was genuinely gifted and deserves to be mentioned more.

[kiddo82]

46 minutes ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't think it's an unpopular opinion to say that Newman is one of the coolest men ever. Actor, philanthropist, race car driver, progressive activist, married faithfully to Joanne Woodward for fifty years. I don't know that anyone has a bad word to say about him.

And good looking as hell.  I don't love Cat on a Hot Tin Roof but it's hard not to stop and gawk at two of the most timelessly gorgeous people ever.  I once read where it was originally going to be shot in black and white but after they cast Newman and Taylor they decided to film in color because of their eyes.

I'm sorry.  Where were we?

[Mabinogia]

38 minutes ago, kiddo82 said:

I once read where it was originally going to be shot in black and white but after they cast Newman and Taylor they decided to film in color because of their eyes.

I completely support that decision. Paul Newman is one of the most swoon worthy men I have ever seen, when he was young and well into his old age. That is one stunning man. He put the hot in Long Hot Summer. I mean...

Excuse me. I think I need a moment. 

[Crs97]

This may be an UO, and I should start by saying I love Paul Newman, but I always have a little eye roll when people fawn over his faithfulness to Joanne.  He was married to his first wife when Joanne and he got together so 1 out of 2 in faithfulness I guess?

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Crs97 said:

This may be an UO, and I should start by saying I love Paul Newman, but I always have a little eye roll when people fawn over his faithfulness to Joanne.

I roll my eyes over anyone fawning over sexual fidelity to someone's spouse/equivalent partner where the parties had pledged such monogamy; if that's their agreement (which, of course, it doesn't have to be in a committed relationship, but when it is) then simply living up to that agreement is not cause for adulation - you don't get a cookie for doing what you're supposed to do.

"He never cheated" is a staggeringly low bar for evaluating a husband who has vowed to be faithful to an agreement of sexual exclusivity, and we certainly don't see an equivalent spate of "She never cheated" lionizing of wives who didn't have affairs in the years following the same vow.

Edited April 13, 2021 by Bastet

[Blergh]

Of course, regardless of Mr. Newman's cinematic and charitable successes, sadly nothing was able to take away that he had to live  the last three decades of his own life burdened by the guilt of  his only son Scott's death at age 28  from an overdose.

[Kel Varnsen]

14 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

don't think it's an unpopular opinion to say that Newman is one of the coolest men ever. Actor, philanthropist, race car driver, progressive activist, married faithfully to Joanne Woodward for fifty years. I don't know that anyone has a bad word to say about him.

I agree with that. Anytime you hear any other person in Hollywood talk about him it seems like the coolest story. Letterman was on Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee and the car they used was a suped-up Volvo station wagon that Newman gave to Dave after he had modified it. Plus they were able to get a whole movie voice performance out of him after his death for Cars 3 just because they had recorded hours of him talking about racing when they made the first one.

[scarynikki12]

21 hours ago, Danny Franks said:

I don't think it's an unpopular opinion to say that Newman is one of the coolest men ever. Actor, philanthropist, race car driver, progressive activist, married faithfully to Joanne Woodward for fifty years. I don't know that anyone has a bad word to say about him

Every so often a picture of Paul Newman makes the rounds on Twitter. Nothing fancy, just him being Paul Newman, but it’s the best game in the world because you get a glorious assortment of people getting weak from his handsomeness.

I’m fine with method acting as every actor has their own preferences for prep. Gene Hackman’s father walked out on him when he was a kid and never returned so, and I have no idea if he ever did this, if he chose to unleash the lingering hurt to get him to cry or rage in a scene then I say have at it. My issue echoes what others have said about actors using it as an excuse to be an ass.

These posts have me realizing I’ve never seen a Montgomery Clift movie. Legit don’t know how that happened.

[Ambrosefolly]

While Natalie Portman has always been the "prestige actress" and Christina Ricci became the girl they hired when Natalie didn't want the job, the one strength that Christina always seem to have over Natalie was the ability to generate chemistry, whether it was friendship or romantic. When I think about my favorite early 90s teen couples, she is usually half the pairing (Casper, Now and Then, Addam Family Values). I like Natalie, but find Christina to be the more open actress.

[scarynikki12]

This reminds me of my forever unpopular opinion: generating chemistry, especially the romantic kind, is an acting skill just like any other and is not some magical, cannot be explained, thing.

[Crs97]

2 hours ago, scarynikki12 said:

I’m fine with method acting as every actor has their own preferences for prep. Gene Hackman’s father walked out on him when he was a kid and never returned so, and I have no idea if he ever did this, if he chose to unleash the lingering hurt to get him to cry or rage in a scene then I say have at it. My issue echoes what others have said about actors using it as an excuse to be an ass.

There is a scene in a movie Martin Sheen made in which he breaks down in jail.  Apparently, if you look closely you can see either Francisco or Estevez written as graffiti above his head.  He wrote it himself before they began filming and then used the scene to grieve the death of his father.

Just thought I would share.