S02.E05: Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est

[bluebonnet]

I think it's a given that the clones are Team Themselves+loved ones before the other clones.  I just find Team Clone to be a convenient shorthand rather than writing out in detail each team and what order their motives would follow.  We all know what we mean with a generic shorthand like Team Clone depending on which character we're talking about.  

[Ceeg]

Yeah, I still don't really see Paul as Team Anyone but Paul. Which, fair enough. He doesn't want that shit about him to get out. But, I don't think there's some hidden agenda for him to be working with DYAD for the good of Sarah. I could be reading it wrong though. Dylan Bruce isn't exactly the strongest, most layered actor.

Edited May 18, 2014 by Ceeg

[heyerchick]

I agree that self-preservation is what's keeping Paul under DYAD's thumb. But he has also pretty consistently helped Sarah where and when circumstances allowed.

[Happy to be here]

And Rachel? Why is she such an ice robot? She's not even interesting to me. I just hate her. I wouldn't have felt anything if Helena had blown her head off. It might have ended the show, though. But I want to know her goddamn motivation, and either find something in her to feel for.

 

 

I think alot of it has to do with self awareness at an early age.  All (or most) children are told by their parents that they are special, unique.  What it must have been like to be raised by the Duncans and told the exact opposite.  Parents are supposed to protect their children and i am almost positive that The Duncans had no problem running tests on Rachel,  The line about her not being exempt from the project made that pretty clear.   I am not sure what her endgame is and that is actually what makes her interesting.  I know power comes into it but is it just Power or does Sarah and Kira play into it somehow?  Kira the daughter of a clone someone who actually is special, unique.  

[beedub]

Amazing episode, it can be mind-boggling how quickly things move along on this show. I often find myself struggling to keep up!

 

My money is on Paul playing a long con on Rachel and DYAD in order to help Sarah. First, there was too much time spent on their forging a bond last season for that to be thrown away; second, Paul, in spite of his recent actions, is clearly cast in the role of hero – if the show had just wanted an evil henchman, they'd have kept Daniel around; third, it seemed obvious to me that most everything he does is against his will. Even in the scene with Felix, his agression had a tinge of unwillingness to it, possibly making a show for the sake of the other dude(s) who arrived with him. Who, by the way, couldn't really be "police", or they wouldn't have been cool with the forced fingerprinting of the gun, at least in an ideal world.

 

Never would have taken Felix for a Tears for Fears fan. His scene preparing for his date was like a musical montage from an R-rated John Hughes film.

 

And a minor detail, I liked the callback to the obese bath house client hanging around in the alleyway outside the entrance to Felix's loft.

Edited May 18, 2014 by beedub

[Snarkette]

http://imgur.com/pepklWL

 

At a minimum, with Rachel's first day of school in 1988, wouldn't she be a year or two older than the rest? Beth was born in 1984. In unrelated matters, I doubt any major project secret or not wouldn't have been using backup tapes in the 80's. So that's what makes me think inside job vs Siobhan

[CleoCaesar]

I really like Art and I’m happy he’s on Team Clone. In the end, when Helena put down the gun and Sarah called her meathead and got a “do not call me this” in reply, Art had this priceless “WTF?” look on his face as the two of them walked off together. Please don't kill him off, show.

 

I’m going to need to see more naked Paul. For, uh, research purposes. He’s dumb and might be evil but he’s very pretty. Cal has officially grown on me too.

 

Leekie puzzles me. Is he a double agent for Rachel or genuine in his desire to save Cosima? Last season I thought he was the villain, but it's seemed to shift more towards Rachel & Co. and the Big Love Ranch being the true perpetrators of evil on the show. For a split second, I thought Leekie was Ethan Duncan, but I suppose that doesn't add up.

 

An episode without Alison is not a good episode.

 

I still love that this is a women's show. Felix, the only 3 dimensional male character, is now a sestra. All the guys, good or bad, are basically just plot-devices, beefcake, and useful accessories. It's awesome.

I never thought about it this way, but excellent point!

And – not that this is a good thing – but it’s rare for TV to see a woman in a position of power initiating not quite consensual sex with a man who didn’t seem that into it. I’m deliberately skirting the word “rape”, because I don’t think it was, but it was still coercive, creepy, and generally all kinds of messed up.

[bosawks]

I loved Scott's look of "Wheee, it's Delphine" followed shortly by his "Oh shit she's hanging up on me" look.

[Riful]

Even in the scene with Felix, his agression had a tinge of unwillingness to it, possibly making a show for the sake of the other dude(s) who arrived with him.

 

He was left alone with Felix after he arrived with his "Hallo Felix", so there was no one to make a show for. That said, this episode made Paul much more interesting, and playing the more dark type fits DB more I think. He can do intimidating pretty well.

[Loandbehold]

 

And – not that this is a good thing – but it’s rare for TV to see a woman in a position of power initiating not quite consensual sex with a man who didn’t seem that into it. I’m deliberately skirting the word “rape”, because I don’t think it was, but it was still coercive, creepy, and generally all kinds of messed up.

I disagree. Rape is about power and Rachel made it perfectly clear that Paul didn't have any power. She had him poor two glasses of wine, then wouldn't let him drink a glass. She told him exactly what she wanted him to do and wouldn't let him do anything else. And, she reminded him about Afghanistan. (I don't recall if that last point happened earlier in the episode, but, even if it did, he knows he is under Rachel's thumb.)

 

I loved this episode. We learned a lot of different things, which, in keeping with this show, led to more questions. And, as others have said, all the male characters, with the exceptions of Art and Brother-seestra Felix, have unknown alternative motivations for their actions. I believe Art is who he says he is - just a cop. So, I am forced to consider the possibility that Felix is the ultimate man behind the curtain. Maybe his name is really Abraham. I'm being facetious, but with this show, you can't know for sure. 

 

Helena was awesome for all the reasons others have said, and I just loved the look on Art's face when Sarah and Helena walked past him with their arms around each other. And, before that, Art frisking Helena when Felix brought her to his house and finding the pen. Yeah, don't leave anything sharp or pointed around our avenging angel. Basically, Art and Helena can go on the road together as a spin-off.

 

And now, I have to ask myself, who is "Cal"? He has a camper in another name (and not the only other name) as a go-bag. 

 

Has anyone ever had as much chemistry with herself than Tatiana? I am always stunned by those clone interaction scenes, but especially the ones between Sarah and Helena.

[Petunia846]

The scene with Felix getting ready for his date and then the two of them before Paul broke it up was the most adorable thing I've ever seen on this show. I would totally watch a spin-off of Felix and the morgue guy. Gah.

The mouth sewing bit reminded me of Doug Dorst and JJ Abrams' book "S." (the "Ship of Theseus" part obviously). It was bad enough to imagine that in a novel, I didn't really need to see it. (And I really, really didn't need the close-ups.)

[heyerchick]

Helena didn't seem as OTT to me as she has previously, so I enjoyed this episode more than I expected to. I'm sure my priorities are whack, given everything else that happened, but I enjoyed Felix rocking out to the excellent Tears For Fears and his aborted date with that poor, long-suffering morgue attendant. Felix can never have anything nice.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

 

At a minimum, with Rachel's first day of school in 1988, wouldn't she be a year or two older than the rest? Beth was born in 1984. In unrelated matters, I doubt any major project secret or not wouldn't have been using backup tapes in the 80's. So that's what makes me think inside job vs Siobhan

The first day of school doesn't have to mean first grade. A lot of people count their kid's first day at preschool or kindergarten because it means the first day the kid is going to be in a classroom away from mommy and daddy (heh or the nanny). I was 4 on my first day of kindergarten. All the clones that we know of so far were born in 1984. Rachel had to be born the same year if Sarah was supposed to go to the Duncans and Rachel was her replacement. For what it's worth, wikipedia lists Rachel's birthdate as March 17, 1984 (Sarah and Helena's birthdate is listed as March 15, 1984).

[Valny]

After seeing Tatiana on SNL for a brief moment tonight, I really want her to host

 

.

 

Wait, what? Where Can I see this? 

 

Oh nevermind, I found it here!

 

You know I think I might have take back what I thought about the Helena/Sarah hug scene in episode four being the best special effects they've done. Because after re-watching their face to face/finger linking scene in this ep, it just maybe be even more seamless as the last ep!

And I agree to all that said  TM truly does have great chemistry with herself!  It really is crazy great chemistry!

[Grammaeryn]

Just re-watched the episode and Helena ate:

• canned sardines
• mustard
• powdered donuts
• dry ramen noodles!

 

Another fun fact is Helen Shaver directed the episode. Unfortunately, I think Sarah made a mistake striking a deal with Leekie. She should have gone directly to Rachel who has more power and a vested interest to find her father. Didn't Carlton say last episode that he was just the middle man for some other guy who gave him Sarah? I wonder if that was Dr. Duncan...

[yellowfred]

Regarding the seeming rift between Rachel and Leekie, I imagine it's mostly a difference in priorities.  Rachel seems to be very focused on whatever the project's ultimate goal is, for which the clones themselves might be more of a means to an end.  Leekie, on the other hand, seems to be a lot more excited about the whole "we created life" angle, which makes him much more invested in the well-being of the individual clones.  

 

I'm a little bit curious about what, exactly, Rachel was hoping to accomplish by withholding treatment from Cosima.  Like, I guess it ultimately did end up getting her a step closer to Sarah, assuming Paul actually reports back to her, but it seems a bit of a stretch to believe that that was her actual plan (to have Delphine and Cosima find out about the treatment, then break into Leekie's office, where Leekie would find them and then go against her orders and give them enough information to make Sarah and Cosima think they could trust him, so that Sarah would agree to meet with him, which Paul would then witness).  It just seems too convoluted to have actually been her plan.  I could totally buy her doing it mostly out of spite, though, which makes it kind of hilarious that it actually ended up furthering her goal.

[LittleIggy]

Can't Felix ever lock his door again after he invites someone in? That drives me nuts!

Oh I was so hoping Helena would off Rachel and her Man-Ho. That whole thing was so gross. I thought she was going to pull something out of his mouth.

[Kaboom 2.0]

So glad I'm not the only person who thought Helena was going to do something with/to Art's goldfish and am extremely happy that we did NOT get to see a shot of his fishtank with no fish in it after she escaped from him.

 

I loved this ep but really? No Alison? Fooey. (frowns with arms crossed) And poor Felix not only having sexy times interrupted but being manhandled by Paul and framed for a murder made me sad.

 

As much as I wanted Helena to pull that trigger and take out Rachel (and possibly hot Paul although I do think he serves a purpose as a gray character) I don't think we would've been gifted with the scene of Sarah talking Helena down and them holding each other and walking away. And there would've been no "meathead" and "don't call me this."

 

I found Leekie annoying at times last season but his actions so far this season have intrigued me, namely going behind Rachel's back, helping Cosima with treatment, etc. Rachel, however, I still feel nothing for and I still don't trust Delphine. Not really trusting Cal yet either although he has kept Kira safe for Sarah...for now.

Every time we return to that creepy ass Big Love Prolethian farm it just gets creepier and creepier and I feel like giving myself a Silkwood-type shower afterward. Well, seeing what goes on at that farm and seeing Rachel sexily seduce Paul, which...no. It was not sexy and was not a seduction. Yuck.

[caracas1914]

Maybe it's just me, but I Love the Morgue/coroner guy. I wish they keep him on as a recurring character with frustrated love trysts with Felix interrupted by helicopters and black ops peeps.

[Kara]

With "Brenda" being on one of the tapes, and the Brenda in the Birdwatchers, is it possible that the name Birdwatchers refers to a swan/project Leda?  Or did they mention why they are called the Birdwatchers on a previous episode and is just one of the five billion details I miss every episode because there is so much going on?

[Carrie Ann]

I'm still torn on what I think Paul is really doing. That last scene in particular made me think that he's actually working for Leekie, not Rachel. Did I read that wrong? He follows Leekie to the meeting with Sarah; Leekie's not surprised Rachel had Paul follow him, then he tells him that what Sarah is going to find should come to him first, and Paul seems to accept that order.

 

As someone who binged the show a couple of months ago, I find this mercenary turn a little sudden and not in line with his development last season, so I tend to believe that he's still trying to help Sarah as he can, from inside the system. On the other hand, I could imagine the writers deciding to just go a different direction with him for plot reason, so I can't full convince myself that he's not just completely out for himself now.

[ganesh]

I'm always worried about Art! I guess because he's on the 'outside' and keeps getting pulled in that I think he's going to die all the time. I freaked when Helena put the gun to his head. 

 

I am quite enjoying the unfolding of the mystery now. The fire, Art and Sarah tracking down the locker, springing Felix. This season has a lot going on, and I can't believe how much they contain in each episode. 

[Happytobehere]

Not much to say in the wake of other posts. I will however say that the most striking thing about the episode was just how truly pathetic Rachel is, forcing her monitors to have sex with her. I think Helena taking Rachel out would probably be the kindest thing ever done for her.

[hardy har]

As someone who binged the show a couple of months ago, I find this mercenary turn a little sudden and not in line with his development last season, so I tend to believe that he's still trying to help Sarah as he can, from inside the system. On the other hand, I could imagine the writers deciding to just go a different direction with him for plot reason, so I can't full convince myself that he's not just completely out for himself now.

Well, he did put a tracker on Beth/Sarah's car, followed her to Alison's, beat up and tortured Vick with a nailgun and actually made a move to shoot Ansley in Alison's garage before Sarah stopped him. Plus, there was that whole fucked up thing that happened before Leekie &Co found out Sarah was Beth where Paul was planning on killing Sarah with the hopes of it looking like Beth overdosed. So, his less than savory turn this season works for me so far.

 

I still think he's Team Paul, but I do think the writers have set him up in an interesting position. If he's playing Rachel and Leekie he's privy to a lot of information and I do think if he sees an opportunity to help Sarah he'd probably take it if it meant minimal risk for his personal situation.

[Carrie Ann]

I'm not surprised at the types of things he's doing; just that it appears he's back to being 100% about himself, after showing concern for Sarah in the past, even at risk to himself. It took them most of last season to get him to that point, and it feels as though it's been rather abruptly undone. And its undoing happened off-screen, which makes it even more suspect to me. So like I said, I'm guessing there's more to his motivations than there appears, but maybe the writers just changed their plans for him.

[NutMeg]

Rachel is not only aware of having a monitor but feeling she needs to have one - why (beside the sexual abuse she dishes on her monitor, that is)? What does she think a monitor does (beside etc.) that she or doctors couldn't do? That's very puzzling to me, if anyone has some insight it would be greatly appreciated :-)

[omgsowicked]

Rachel is not only aware of having a monitor but feeling she needs to have one - why (beside the sexual abuse she dishes on her monitor, that is)? What does she think a monitor does (beside etc.) that she or doctors couldn't do? That's very puzzling to me, if anyone has some insight it would be greatly appreciated :-)

 

Didn't she say that she wasn't exempt from the project's rules? So it would seem she isn't personally choosing to have one. It's probably to keep the project level (every clone must have a monitor) and unbiased, having someone closely but impartially report on each clone's health and well-being. Leekie's been revealed to have been a guardian to her (aka may be biased), plus he's high up in the chain of command. And if it were left up to her, she might not report everything, which would skew the results. Plus, it would look bad to investors, if a clone was self-reporting... she could make the data look better than it is. Then again, if they know she's a self-aware clone who's on both sides of the project, they'd be suspicious of the results anyway. Maybe she keeps that a secret.

 

If I recall correctly, she did look a bit edgy when she said she needed a new monitor, so when I think about that sex scene again... my first thought was that maybe she was trying to get back some control. But actually, I don't think it's about love or sex; she's very concerned about the clones ability to conceive, so inspecting and using Paul (and presumably Daniel, though perhaps she learned to care for him) the way she did was probably about procreation rather than regaining the personal freedom she's lost through this project. The way it looked from the window seemed very angry like, "damnit. I. will. get. pregnant."

[Lola]

If Rachel wants to conceive badly, then there's only a matter of time before she finds and attempts something with Cal... 

 

Rachel fascinates me. A lot of comments above wanted her shot or want the clones together without her... I was rooting for Helena to shoot her too, but I think what would be most interesting to me would be for Rachel to suddenly have lost it all - or lost faith in Dyad etc and find herself with the other clones... in Felix's loft or something. There's something up with her. The way she watches those videos.... like they're from before she's self aware and she's trying to recapture that time and escape from whatever nightmare she thinks she's in. 

 

Contrary to being a villian, I think she's another victim and before too long she'll be "team clone"... however it's loosely defined.

[Wilowy]

Not so sure the others would welcome Rachel after learning that she plans to deny Cosima the treatment she needs. That's flat-out cold manipulation of one of their own, ostensibly their 'leader' - Sarah. 

 

She doesn't have the insanity excuse like Helena, either. 

[caracas1914]

I just think she wanted a monitor "cover" in order to bang Paul. Simple as that.

Edited May 20, 2014 by caracas1914

[Loandbehold]

I believe Paul is Team Paul and will be until such time as he can get a hold of or rid DYAD of the blackmail photos or whatever that they have against him. Since Sarah is causing Rachel so many problems, it pays for him to let her do her stuff on the outside, while he continues working on the inside. If there comes a point where he has to choose between himself and Sarah, I think he'll choose himself. At that point, Sarah's seestra will probably come out of nowhere to take some action.

 

I thought that the scene between Paul and Felix was terrifying and awesome. Kudos to both Dylan Bruce and Jordan Gavaris. It's rare for me to praise the work of non-Maslany actors in this show, but they deserve it here.

 

And, I absolutely loved the look on Art's face as Sarah and Helena walked away holding onto each other.

[RealityCreator]

Paul may not always make the choice Sarah wants him to make, but he seems to me to be genuinely attempting to help her navigate this maze as best as he can. I don't think he's Team Clone so much as he's Team Sarah.

 

 

Yes.  I think he's surprised himself with his deeper feelings for Sarah, and he's ultimately trying to help her, but we'll see.   

 

If Leekie is not on Rachel's side all together and is not total E-vil, he has become a much more interesting character.  So far, Rachel is a bore and they've shown me nothing interesting about her whatsoever.  I hope we get more depth, motivation, something from her soon, because on a show that is so otherwise excellent, a purely evil mustache twirler isn't working.  

 

With regard to Kira, I really like her, and I'm so interested to find out what her special characteristics are all about.  I've worked with kids for decades, and I've known a few super smarties with deep insight like she has, so I'm not bothered by those aspects of her character.  

 

As for the Proletheans - Dear Lord.  Gracie's sewn mouth was beyond disturbing.  That was straight up horror film shit.  The actress did a great job with the sly smile through the stitches after the Lord's Cowboy flirted with her in the Punishment Stall, though.  

[barestsmidgen]

Damn, I am having so much fun with this season. Maria Doyle Kennedy was right when she said "It's like season one, on crack."

 

It's nice to see more Helena love amongst the fans. Was surprised at people I knew celebrating her demise last season while I mourned her loss and tried to make #SaveHelena a thing. ;) She's definitely the most interesting to me, and in her own way, the most loving across the all the characters. I excitedly anticipated the day they she & Sarah & Felix (and OMG, Alison!) would one day be in a non-fight-to-the-death mix together, but didn't expect it to come so soon. 

 

Though I could do with less time on the Prolethian ranch, /shudder/ I'm intrigued by the obvious mirroring between Helena and Gracie's upbringing. I suspect Helena could see that herself, from the receiving end of the same sort of fear and hatred by the religiously indoctrinated that she had been doling out to clones with a rifle. And she does not kill Gracie. When Helena realizes what happened while she was drugged and understands them as the same sort as the nuns and Tomas... well, it does not bode well for Heinrick and his wife.

 

ETA: And to our mogue friend: um, that's a lotta lube.

Edited May 20, 2014 by barestsmidgen

[LoneHaranguer]

 

With "Brenda" being on one of the tapes, and the Brenda in the Birdwatchers, is it possible that the name Birdwatchers refers to a swan/project Leda?

Sarah being British brings to mind an alternate meaning for "bird" that seems apt for the clones being observed.

 

 

Who, by the way, couldn't really be "police", or they wouldn't have been cool with the forced fingerprinting of the gun, at least in an ideal world.

Quite plausible for big city cops (especially LA or NYC). Felix has a criminal record, so Paul just had to come up with a reasonable excuse.

[halgia]

And to our mogue friend: um, that's a lotta lube.

And also before anyone's pants were off! What was he gonna do with it?

[Wilowy]

And also before anyone's pants were off! What was he gonna do with it?

I imagine he's mastered the one-handed unzip.

[Riful]

Another fun fact is Helen Shaver directed the episode.

 

Omg. Desert Hearts had a very huge influence on my young life when it came to making me go "Jup, I am definitely not straight". And she directed a male/female (non-con) and partly a M/M sex scene but not a F/F?! That should be considered nearly criminal considering Mrs. Shaver contribution to the world of lesbian cinema. The overall episode did feel very well directed. I did notice shots and cut choices that seemed a bit different in the sense that one could feel a different style. The whole Felix/Paul confrontation + Alley scenes comes to mind, and the Paul/Rachel scene that very well displayed Rachel's pathological need for control and narcissism. There was also the part with Helena, Sarah and Art, with the choice of having Helena higher up because of sitting on a chair placed on table, thus forcing Sarah to look up while pleading with Helena.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Riful

[Carrie Ann]

Quite plausible for big city cops (especially LA or NYC). Felix has a criminal record, so Paul just had to come up with a reasonable excuse.

It looked like DYAD bought off at least one of the cops. One leaves with the Morgue guy, and the other goes out into the hall when Paul gives him the nod. But both of the cops seem to recognize the Morgue guy, so I do think they're actual police officers.

[beedub]

The overall episode did feel very well directed. I did notice shots and cut choices that seemed a bit different in the sense that one could feel a different style. The whole Felix/Paul confrontation + Alley scenes comes to mind, and the Paul/Rachel scene that very well displayed Rachel's pathological need for control and narcissism. There was also the part with Helena, Sarah and Art, with the choice of having Helena higher up because of sitting on a chair placed on table, thus forcing Sarah to look up while pleading with Helena.

Not to mention the scene where Delphine injects Cosima, shot almost entirely in extreme close-up, had a heightened sensuality not previously seen on this show (and that's saying something).

 

But both of the cops seem to recognize the Morgue guy, so I do think they're actual police officers.

You're right, I recall now one of them making a snide comment to Colin, so they were acquainted. So yes, I'll have to concede some corruption on the part of the cops at play there.

[millahnna]

 

She doesn't have the insanity excuse like Helena, either. 

 

Oh I don't know. Being raised as a self aware clone who is subjected to invasive medical tests by your own parents who then die in a laboratory explosion might be enough to make a girl go a bit cookoo for cocoa puffs.

[Wilowy]

Yes. However there comes a time in your adult life when you have to stop blaming your behavior on what happened to you as a child, stop using it as an excuse. From what we've seen, she had a decent childhood and some fucked up things happened after. 

 

She's not tormented, she's not insane, she's sad. She's also a controlling, entitled bitch, and if that is her coping mechanism, then that's her problem and she can have it as long as she doesn't hurt her sestras.

 

I dislike her, vehemently. 

[millahnna]

I feel you. But in do find myself wondering about her childhood and her seeming obsession with it (the videos). She reads a bit as having drunk the koolaid but is maybe becoming aware of that. I wonder how much propaganda she was fed. I wonder how much of her anger comes from cognitive dissonance over her apparently loving family vs. Medical experiments. I don't like her but I do pity her.

[shapeshifter]

Oh, man. Big Love guy kissing Gracie as just more grossness. Guy? You are trying to charm/console a girl who is locked in a stable (?) with her mouth sewn shut! The fuck is wrong with you?! Gracie had a little smile on her face too and she's been forcefed the Prolethean kool-aid since birth, so she probably found it sweet, but I'm hoping she's scheming some plan to GTFO of Big Love Science Rape Ranch.

We might get to see her give him the pillow treatment.

[LeGrandElephant]

So, about Paul. Originally he was on Sarah's side and played like he had some deep connection with her. But he was always a boring character. Now we have Cal who is more interesting and has a better connection with Sarah and Kira. And all of a sudden Paul has changed sides and is evil (but still boring). I feel like they are purposely making us dislike Paul so we won't mind when he is killed off in favor of Cal - and I'm fine with that. But it does seem a little confusing plot wise that I never understand Paul's motivations for anything. And wow, it's amazing how thry can take two very hot people and make a sex scene be that much of a turnoff.

[Loandbehold]

 

And wow, it's amazing how they can take two very hot people and make a sex scene be that much of a turnoff.

I really don't think they were trying to make the sex scene between Rachel and Paul hot. We were supposed to be squicked out by what Rachel was doing and how she was treating Paul. The sex scenes between Paul and Sarah in season one were hot, but they were consensual. Of course, one might prefer or find hotter the actress playing Sarah over the one playing Rachel, which could impact the way you view the two scenes. 

[millahnna]

 

Of course, one might prefer or find hotter the actress playing Sarah over the one playing Rachel, which could impact the way you view the two scenes.

 

I lolled.

[whyjen8]

ETA: And to our mogue friend: um, that's a lotta lube.

I knew from the amount of lube that something was about to happen, they can't show the results of that much lube on TV.....that's porn only stuff right there.

 

I really don't think they were trying to make the sex scene between Rachel and Paul hot. We were supposed to be squicked out by what Rachel was doing and how she was treating Paul. The sex scenes between Paul and Sarah in season one were hot, but they were consensual. Of course, one might prefer or find hotter the actress playing Sarah over the one playing Rachel, which could impact the way you view the two scenes.

 

IMO, it's just as bad when Sarah had sex with Paul while he was thinking he was with Beth.

 

As for the Proletheans - Dear Lord.  Gracie's sewn mouth was beyond disturbing.  That was straight up horror film shit.  The actress did a great job with the sly smile through the stitches after the Lord's Cowboy flirted with her in the Punishment Stall, though.

Does the cowboy have a name?  He reminded me of Joaquin Phoenix's Johnny Cash in Walk the Line.

[Wilowy]

"IMO, it's just as bad when Sarah had sex with Paul while he was thinking he was with Beth."

 

Not to me. I thought Sarah and Paul were sexy as hell even then. But he and Rachel were weird and creepy and completely NON-sexy by comparison. 

[Sarah-phile]

 

Not to me. I thought Sarah and Paul were sexy as hell even then. But he and Rachel were weird and creepy and completely NON-sexy by comparison.

Completely agree.  I've been rooting for Paul and Sarah for a while (I know I may be in the minority here).  I think he cares about her but is, as with everyone else on this show, flawed.  Dyad has something over him, yes, but I think the other problem is his thinking is warped from having been working with them.  I also think he's a more interesting character when he seems to flip sides and be hiding something.  My view may be skewed by how hot he is though.  :)  

[millahnna]

I'm with you.  I'm also still on the "Paul doesn't like what he's doing but has some angle to try to help Sarah" train.  I just keep thinking about the end of last season (him and Sarah in the elevator and then not) and how we almost seemed to time skip with him this season (suddenly totally with Dyad) and thinking there's got to be a beat we're missing.  And Dylan Bruce has been playing his scenes somewhat ambiguously; I see reluctance in the performance.  Which, honestly I think is kind of neat.  I love that others think he's totally gone over to the dark side and that the scenes have lent themselves to either interpretation really well.

 

But for myself, right now I'm taking it as super deep cover paranoia weirdness.