Shipper Wars: Favorite And Least Favorite TV Couples

[Luckylyn]

If you tease people they are going to get annoyed when there’s no pay off.   Yet show runners never seem to get that.  I hate when writers bait a ship and then act shocked that people are shipping that pairing.  

I’m still pissed at The Magicians  for building a whole storyline on Q and Elliot’s feelings for each other. The entire season Q was desperate to save Elliot from the monster possessing Elliot.  There was this unique love triangle where the monster seems to want Q but Q wants Elliot.  They had a whole episode devoted to revealing that Q wanted a relationship with Elliot.  Elliot regretted turning him down and was clearly resolved to go after Q once they were reunited. But the season ends with

Spoiler

Q abruptly get back together with his ex girlfriend and dying before he and Elliot can be reunited. 

It made me feel toyed with and I dropped the show. I can accept when my ship doesn’t work out as I hoped but won’t tolerate writers purposely baiting something they know is never going to happen.  The writing was going in one direction and then abruptly shifted confusingly leaving things unresolved.   There wasn’t a good build up to justify how things turned out.   If they wanted that conclusion they really need to write it in a way that made sense.

[DearEvette]

I am loving Keeley and Roy (Fucking) Kent on Ted Lasso.  I hope the show doesn't decide to screw them up.  So far they are so functional and evolved and sexy and I just really like them.

[Zella]

2 hours ago, JustHereForFood said:

I found the writers' handling of that ship abysmal. They kept making references to it since the beginning and then complained that fans were shipping them, saying that fans were making it up. Stop gaslighting your fans! You started the conversation in the first place! Gross.

Yep. I personally had no vested interest in shipping Watson and Sherlock, but the show had teased it so much that it was impossible not to notice, and it seemed very intentional. And the way the showrunners then basically acted like they not only had no clue why anyone would think that but also made fun of the fans for it and treated them like they were idiots or assholes was extremely distasteful. If I see they are connected to a show now, I steer very clear. 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Zella

[Mabinogia]

13 hours ago, Peace 47 said:

The writers/ showrunners put in references to Sherlock’s ambiguous sexuality in nearly every episode for several seasons, had weirdly intimate moments like John putting his hand on Sherlock’s leg while drunk and saying that he didn’t mind doing it, had other characters reference in nearly every episode their assumption that the unusual closeness of Sherlock and John’s relationship meant that they were a couple (I guess for the lolz) and then got genuinely mad (as did a certain portion of the audience) when some other portion of the audience started to latch on to that theme and ship Sherlock and John.

This I never understood. As you said, the writers put constant hints and teases in there that they could potentially be a couple, or that there was more than just a best friends vibe between them, so why did they get all pissy when fans became interested and excited about a ship they themselves had been writing and teasing? 

Writers: If you don't want fans to latch on to a particular ship, don't fucking tease that very ship! It's not a hard concept. 

I enjoy imagining what non-canon ships would have been like, since I can see on screen how the canon ship turns out. But I can't stand when the show writers get their knickers in a twist because we, the audience, have minds, and preferences of our own. They should be pleased that we care so much about their characters that we like to imagine their lives beyond what is on screen. 

[Luckylyn]

Sometimes there’ll be a fanbase for a ship that the show runners didn’t intend.  On One Tree Hill there are people who shipped best friends Lucas/Haley.  They were never romantic on the show.  Haley marries his brother.  Still the writers would occasionally acknowledge  the Lucas/Haley ship.    When Lucas’s book turns into a movie he mentions the producers wanted him to change it so the character based on him ends up with the one based on Haley.  Luke jokingly proposes to Haley when showing her the engagement ring he picked out for his fiancee.  I love that the scene ends with her teasing him by taking the ring telling him he’ll have to get another one for his girlfriend.  So the writer’s acknowledge the fanbase for Lucas/Haley exists, but  never gives fans false hope it will happen.  That show wasn’t perfect and I quit watching before it ended but it at least did okay by letting Lucas/Haley be best friends.

[Mabinogia]

52 minutes ago, Luckylyn said:

So the writer’s acknowledge the fanbase for Lucas/Haley exists, but  never gives fans false hope it will happen.

I like that they were able to give the fans a little wink, a small acknowledgement that fans like this pairing, while not ever giving them false hope that this was going to really happen. It can be done. If the runners of Sherlock had just kept their mouths shut, that would have been the vibe I got there. That is the vibe I got in the beginning, that they were giving a little cheeky wink and nod to the fact that in the greater Sherlock Holmes fandom (beyond their show but through all the many, many iterations of the story) there has been slash shipping between the best friends. If they had just stuck with the in show teasers I would have found it cute and clever that they were saying "yeah, we get it, people ship these two". It was outside the show, where they were making fun of their fans for liking the pairing that sucked. 

I have always tended towards non-canon ships and love those little moments show runners gave us outliers so long as they were doing it in a fun way. 

Honestly, thinking about it more, show runners can be the worst shippers when it comes to being mean towards people who don't like their ship. Makes some sense, since they are the ones who actually built and launched the ship, but still, it's still only make believe. I have disagreed with canon ships and still very much enjoyed the show. 

[Zella]

Like, @Mabinogia, I initially thought the Sherlock stuff was the showrunners inserting some good-natured acknowledgements of the idea into the show. Which is what made the way they responded even more assholish. 

I think in general a sign a show is not one I want to engage with is when the showrunners seem to engage way too much with the fanbase. Whether it is in letting them drive the writing as a means of pandering to them or in condescendingly "correcting" them. And it is super obvious in pairings of couples.

I think it was Vince Gilligan who responded to a fan theory about Breaking Bad with something along the lines of "well, that's not what I was going for, but I  can see why someone would interpret it that way, and it's valid to do so."

Just in general, I'd rather showrunners approach unintended ships that way. (Unless it's a really creepy one. Lol) 

[Luckylyn]

On the shows Boys Meets World (Corey/Shawn)  and Scrubs (JD and Turk)  there were running jokes about the male best friends being so close there practically a couple.  JD and Turk on Scrubs even had their own love duet called Guy Love.   

I never felt baited by that.  Yes they would act like a couple but it was clear they weren’t really going to end up together.  

Nick and Schmitt on New Girl also had that best friends who act like a couple vibe but sometimes it was a Schmitt as overbearing Dad and Nick as child dynamic too. The Dad/Son thing lead to a hilarious rivalry between Nick and Schmitt’s daughter.  Seeing a grown man argue with a preschooler because they want Daddy Schmitt’s attention lead to my favorite Nick line.  Ruth is showing off a dress her dad bought her and Nick points out that her dad used to buy him clothes too.  She asks him why and he says “Before you I was his baby girl”

I felt the show acknowledged Nick/Schmitt’s dynamic really well in the episode where Schmitt spontaneously buys Nick a cookie and Nick is weirdly dismayed by it.

Was that what Sherlock was trying to do but they botched it?  The show runners were so contemptuous of shippers while also egging them on.  I never understood what they were trying to do.  Other shows played around with this type of dynamic so much better.

[Mabinogia]

7 minutes ago, Zella said:

I think it was Vince Gilligan who responded to a fan theory about Breaking Bad with something along the lines of "well, that's not what I was going for, but I  can see why someone would interpret it that way, and it's valid to do so."

What a great response. Just because a writer doesn't intend us to see things a certain way, our own experiences, prejudices and plain old personal tastes affect how we see things. This is most true in any creative/artistic project.

There is no one way to view art. There is the creators way, and then there is the way every individual person sees it based on who they are. An insecure creator will insist the way they intended their work is the only possible way of looking at it. A great creator is interested in how other people interpret what they created through their own lenses. 

It is awesome to see a show runner who is capable of acknowledging that. Go Vince!

[Mabinogia]

1 minute ago, Luckylyn said:

On the shows Boys Meets World (Corey/Shawn)  and Scrubs (JD and Turk)  there were running jokes about the male best friends being so close there practically a couple.  JD and Turk on Scrubs even had their own love duet called Guy Love.   

Two extremely well done versions of guy love. The way they handled it, in both cases, was with humor. A little cheeky wink to the audience, but never too serious as to give anyone the feeling the shows would suddenly have the pair making out and hooking up romantically. 

I think, with Sherlock, they liked the attention they were getting with a "ship" but the fans were a bit rabid and insisted that Sherlock and Watson be a couple. I think that's when the showrunners balked and started lashing out. I also wonder (pure speculation not based on anything either show runner has said) if there was some conflict as to what each wanted for the pairing. They tended to write and view the show slightly differently. Mark Gatiss being more desirous of sticking to the origins of Sherlock but just making him more modern while Steve Moffat did his usual, Conan Doyle's ideas where fine, but I can totally improve on it all. Mark, a very proud gay man, (who also played Mycroft) has stated he thought Mycroft was gay, so it would be odd that he'd be so very against the idea Sherlock might be gay. While Steve comes across as a borderline not mysogonist, I can't think of the right word for it, machoist?, so I could see him wanting very much to make his "hero" Sherlock a pure hetro who is adored by all the women. He is also the one who wrote that terrible, TERRIBLE depiction of Irene Adler whom I think he wanted very much to make Sherlock's one true love, so there's that too. 

Who knows. Maybe they are just insecure twats who can't handle not getting their way. (I do see Moffat that way a bit, but I do like other things Gatiss has done and give him a bit more credit). 

[Peace 47]

I kind of give Gatiss no more slack than Moffat.  Gatiss’s name was on the Season 3 premiere script, where he described the casting for a young woman who shipped Sherlock with Moriarty as an overweight, greasy-haired goth girl, so I think that was some early indication on their view of their fans who shipped any characters at all on that show.

One ship that I will be curious to see what is eventually done because we are midstream is Loki & Sylvie in Loki.  Even though I’m sure that there is a significant portion of the audience that bought the romance that the showrunners were selling with them, a lot of online folks who don’t ever normally remark on shipping (like a couple of comics-oriented YouTube channels and sites that I’ve seen) have voiced how incest-y that ship comes off as, given that Sylvie is supposed to be a literal female version of Loki.  The writers have her character say to Loki in various episodes both that “we’re the same” and “I’m not you” so I don’t think the show had an entirely clear viewpoint on how close Sylvie and Loki are supposed to be to each other genetically, spiritually, etc. I’m as put off by that ship as anyone, though.  But the showrunner went all-in on the ship in interviews as, and after, the show aired.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Peace 47

[Zella]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

What a great response. Just because a writer doesn't intend us to see things a certain way, our own experiences, prejudices and plain old personal tastes affect how we see things. This is most true in any creative/artistic project.

There is no one way to view art. There is the creators way, and then there is the way every individual person sees it based on who they are. An insecure creator will insist the way they intended their work is the only possible way of looking at it. A great creator is interested in how other people interpret what they created through their own lenses. 

It is awesome to see a show runner who is capable of acknowledging that. Go Vince!

Agreed! I sat through so many creative writing classes where somebody was determined to defend their baby to the death and would get incredibly offended and even aggressive when you didn't read their story through whatever lens they assumed. It was very off-putting . . . and counterproductive. 

[Luckylyn]

1 hour ago, Peace 47 said:

I kind of give Gatiss no more slack than Moffat.  Gatiss’s name was on the Season 3 premiere script, where he described the casting for a young woman who shipped Sherlock with Moriarty as an overweight, greasy-haired goth girl, so I think that was some early indication on their view of their fans who shipped any characters at all on that show.

One ship that I will be curious to see what is eventually done because we are midstream is Loki & Sylvie in Loki.  Even though I’m sure that there is a significant portion of the audience that bought the romance that the showrunners were selling with them, a lot of online folks who don’t ever normally remark on shipping (like a couple of comics-oriented YouTube channels and sites that I’ve seen) have voiced how incest-y that ship comes off as, given that Sylvie is supposed to be a literal female version of Loki.  The writers have her character say to Loki in various episodes both that “we’re the same” and “I’m not you” so I don’t think the show had an entirely clear viewpoint on how close Sylvie and Loki are supposed to be to each other genetically, spiritually, etc. I’m as put off by that ship as anyone, though.  But the showrunner went all-in on the ship in interviews as, and after, the show aired.

I’m on the fence on Loki/Sylvie.  I think that romance needed a little more time to build.  I can understand how viewers  could view it as incest.  I don’t necessarily hate it but I’m not particularly into it either.  I am invested in Sylvie on her own and find her back story compelling.  So I am looking forward to more which surprises me because I wasn’t super into Loki as a character before the series.  Now I am excited for more and seeing how these characters respond to the events of the finale.

[Dancingjaneway]

Max/Kyle from Living Single. These two had great chemistry & were hilarious with each other. I was so happy that they ended up together. 

Seven of Nine/Chakotay from ST Voyager. What in the absolute fu*k were the writers thinking? I know Robert Beltran(Chakotay) made snide remarks daring them to do it but they didn't have to. It made no sense & it felt disgusting. She was a child compared to him. I would have rather he stayed single. 

Morticia/Gomez from The Addams Family. The way that they always are loving on each other, their admiration & love for each other is so sweet. I love that Gomez is romantic & respectful. Morticia isn't just a housewife & genuinely adores her husband. They are a team.

[Luckylyn]

Max and Kyle were fun.  I was sad when the actor playing Kyle left but so glad he returned for the finale so he and Max could be together.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I haven't waded in this thread much, but for me, Michaela and Sully on Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Which I am currently rewatching.

The chemistry between Jane Seymour and Joe Lando is just so crackling good! Their relationship was such a joy to watch--the way it began, how they got together, the issues they dealt with, and no angsty, loooong drawn out ridonkulous "triangles".

ETA: Considering the type of show this was, their love scenes and kissing scenes were just 💗SMOKING HAWT.💗 No gratuitousness, but it hits me in the heart and gut. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by GHScorpiosRule

[Luckylyn]

That time the makers of South Park accidentally found out about the Tweak/Craig ship online and responded by actually writing it into the show.

  Show runners can sometimes be so intensely dismissive towards fans of ships the show runners didn’t intend.  It’s nice to see a show embrace a ship that wasn’t part of the plan.   It definitely helped Tweak be less one note of a character.

[Proclone]

On 8/22/2021 at 8:11 PM, Luckylyn said:

I’m on the fence on Loki/Sylvie.  I think that romance needed a little more time to build.  I can understand how viewers  could view it as incest.  I don’t necessarily hate it but I’m not particularly into it either.  I am invested in Sylvie on her own and find her back story compelling.  So I am looking forward to more which surprises me because I wasn’t super into Loki as a character before the series.  Now I am excited for more and seeing how these characters respond to the events of the finale.

It seems less incesty and more advanced masterbation than anything to me. I actually do like Loki and Sylvie together.  And given the out-there-ness of the entire premise, what I  might normally find slightly icky doesn't really bother me.  Especially if you view Loki and Sylvie's relationship more of a metaphor for self acceptance. Despite being rather narcissistic Loki doesn't seem to like himself all that much, I sort of think him loving a version of himself might be a step on the road to actually loving himself...ymmv.

[Bastet]

I've been watching The Good Place on Netflix, and just got to the part in season three where Eleanor and Chidi declared they're in love.  Wow, I cannot believe the show went there after three seasons of seeing the complete lack of any sort of romantic or sexual chemistry between the characters.  They work very well together as friends and not at all as a couple.  I've really been enjoying the show, but this plot is a big fat dud that I hope goes away or at least isn't so much of a focus that I can't just drown it out and enjoy the rest.  Because right now it's distracting; I'm rather astounded by how utterly devoid of romantic/sexual chemistry they are.

[FurryFury]

I only watched one season, but I completely agree. There was nothing there, even if the writing telegraphed that they were the main couple form the very beginning.

[Danny Franks]

14 hours ago, Bastet said:

I've been watching The Good Place on Netflix, and just got to the part in season three where Eleanor and Chidi declared they're in love.  Wow, I cannot believe the show went there after three seasons of seeing the complete lack of any sort of romantic or sexual chemistry between the characters.  They work very well together as friends and not at all as a couple.  I've really been enjoying the show, but this plot is a big fat dud that I hope goes away or at least isn't so much of a focus that I can't just drown it out and enjoy the rest.  Because right now it's distracting; I'm rather astounded by how utterly devoid of romantic/sexual chemistry they are.

I'm in total agreement.

I love both characters and I love their friendship -  Eleanor's teasing and Chidi's patience - but I just never felt anything romantic between them. And I mean anything. They just don't have that kind of chemistry and, even in scenes where they're meant to be hot and sexy it just doesn't work. I don't know whether it's the writing or the actors, but it all feels very forced.

I actually quit on the show in season three because it seemed like they were making the 'ship a big, focal point and I just couldn't buy into it at all. Fortunately, having watched the rest recently, I will say that it never takes over the show or even takes up too much space. It's just there and easy enough to feel very neutral about.

[Bastet]

On 9/27/2021 at 2:40 AM, Danny Franks said:

I love both characters and I love their friendship -  Eleanor's teasing and Chidi's patience - but I just never felt anything romantic between them. And I mean anything. They just don't have that kind of chemistry and, even in scenes where they're meant to be hot and sexy it just doesn't work. I don't know whether it's the writing or the actors, but it all feels very forced.

Having now finished the series, my instinct is to say it's simply that the actors don't have even a single drop of that kind of chemistry, but Janet and Jason don't spark, either, so both the show's couples felt forced and maybe fault lies partially with the writers.  At least with Janet and Jason; I'm still chalking Eleanor and Chidi almost entirely up to the most astonishing lack of romantic/sexual chemistry I have ever seen between a TV couple.  Good thing they played so well as friends, so I did believe they loved each other.

On 9/27/2021 at 2:40 AM, Danny Franks said:

I actually quit on the show in season three because it seemed like they were making the 'ship a big, focal point and I just couldn't buy into it at all. Fortunately, having watched the rest recently, I will say that it never takes over the show or even takes up too much space. It's just there and easy enough to feel very neutral about.

But it's okay, because ^this^ is true, and I'm glad I stuck it out.  Romantic/sexual relationships were not presented as more important than friendship, or given disproportionate attention.  Personal growth and the group dynamic were what mattered, and that was done very well.

[ABay]

The Good Place had one of the best series finales I've seen.

[ParadoxLost]

On 8/30/2021 at 2:01 PM, GHScorpiosRule said:

I haven't waded in this thread much, but for me, Michaela and Sully on Dr. Quinn, Medicine Woman. Which I am currently rewatching.

I remember them.  Definitely a fan of that coupling. That ship took the place of another old western ship that had just gone off the air, Young Riders.   Although that holds a special place in my shipping heart in that its the only triangle I can think of where I didn't care which potential couple won out.  Because on the one hand I really liked Lou and Kid together and on the other side Josh Brolin.

BTW, my grown up self disagrees with my idiot preteen opinions.  Because Josh Brolin. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Restating my opinion from a few months back because it’s getting worse: Floyd and Lyn on New Amsterdam. 

For those of you who don’t follow the show, Lyn is married and her husband (Claude) was supposedly OK with an open marriage, so she started dating Floyd, who ended up being supervised by Claude after their fling started. They decided telling Claude about their relationship at work was appropriate, and this ended up in lots of drama being brought to work, culminating in a screaming match between Floyd and Claude in the scrub room that Lyn had to go in and break up.

Also, Lyn is now pregnant! Of course New Amsterdam has gone so downhill that I’m expecting Floyd and Claude to take a paternity test and have the results read by Maury. 

Side note: Every TV pregnancy I have seen with a character whose actress is not pregnant in real life has always seemed contrived or unnecessary in some way. I looked up the actress who plays Lyn on Instagram a couple weeks ago and there is zero indication she is expecting. So yeah, a plot device to make us care about this relationship. I don’t understand why the NA writers have gone all in on this relationship and keep pushing it, because even without a pregnancy, Floyd and Lyn have as much chemistry as two wet dishrags.

Oh, and somehow Iggy is one of the only characters on that show in a stable, loving relationship. I do believe he and Martin are a good match and Martin is a great husband. 

Edited November 25, 2021 by Cloud9Shopper

[proserpina65]

On 11/24/2021 at 11:28 PM, Cloud9Shopper said:

For those of you who don’t follow the show, Lyn is married and her husband (Claude) was supposedly OK with an open marriage, so she started dating Floyd, who ended up being supervised by Claude after their fling started. They decided telling Claude about their relationship at work was appropriate, and this ended up in lots of drama being brought to work, culminating in a screaming match between Floyd and Claude in the scrub room that Lyn had to go in and break up.

This seems like a textbook example of "don't shit where you eat".

[Blergh]

With the recent death of Emilio Delgado, I think this would be as good a time as any to commemorate one of the best low-key but steady couples in TV history, Luis Rodriguez and Maria Figueroa of Sesame Street who started up as just platonic friends, then bonded working together in his Fix-It Shop and, even though she was the steady of David  early on. Somehow, Maria and David's breakup happened so quietly that there was nary a ripple when she and Luis started going steady- with all three staying friends. They soon got married and, it was interesting how their wedding showed the joining together of his Mexican family with her Puerto Rican family but, thankfully, there was no objecting kin on either side. Then, they had their daughter and stayed on the Street to raise her to adulthood (before they and everyone else got overwhelmed by Elmo) and it was good to see them visit one last time for the 50th Anniversary. Yeah, I know it was a kids' show but it was good to see a couple who just appreciated each other and had little if any angst- which I think may have been a relief to the viewers at home who might have wondered from other couples   on TV whether bonding was worth all the turmoil depicted.

Edited March 17, 2022 by Blergh

[partofme]

15 hours ago, Blergh said:

even though she was the steady of David  early on. Somehow, Maria and David's breakup happened so quietly

Showing my age here, but Maria and David were a couple when I watched Sesame Street as a child, and I've always wondered whatever happened to that relationship and how she suddenly ended up married to Luis.

[Blergh]

5 hours ago, partofme said:

Showing my age here, but Maria and David were a couple when I watched Sesame Street as a child, and I've always wondered whatever happened to that relationship and how she suddenly ended up married to Luis.

I'm not exactly sure how that storyline played out on the Street itself.  But, for what it was worth, Maria and David quietly parted ways but he stayed  friends with her and Luis and celebrated the birth of Gabi with the rest of the gang before David left to help out his grandmother with her farm in Florida.

Alas, what happened behind the scenes was far less sunny. Northen Calloway (David) already had  had a rather disturbing mental breakdown while touring Nashville in 1980 but he seemed to recover for a time. However, by the late 80's he got more and more erratic which is WHY the writers quietly (and quickly) ended David's romance with Maria.  After showing up at Allison Bartlett's high school and proposing to the teen performer (who played his assistant Gina)  AND after literally biting the music co-ordinator (Danny Epstein) during a verbal argument, they dismissed him. Within eight months, he was institutionalized then died after an altercation with staff on January 9,1990 at age 41.

Edited March 16, 2022 by Blergh

[Chaos Theory]

Paid for a month of Peacock (mainly to watch wrestling) but I have time to watch other shows on the service.  I am rewatching Warehouse 13 and I am still annoyed the show never went anywhere with the Myra/HG pairing,     I always thought it was a fun pairing and Myka had far more chemistry with HG then she did Pete which always felt more sibling based but I guess it was still a little to early to actually go there.   Written now it probably would have.   

[Featherhat]

On 4/4/2022 at 7:06 PM, Chaos Theory said:

Paid for a month of Peacock (mainly to watch wrestling) but I have time to watch other shows on the service.  I am rewatching Warehouse 13 and I am still annoyed the show never went anywhere with the Myra/HG pairing,     I always thought it was a fun pairing and Myka had far more chemistry with HG then she did Pete which always felt more sibling based but I guess it was still a little to early to actually go there.   Written now it probably would have.   

With Myka and Pete I always wondered if there was a network note that said "you have to get them together in the finale." Because there really weren't that many teases as far as can remember, at least nothing major. Even the X-Files with no romo Chris Carter running things put in teases in early seasons like Scully on the sofa with Eddie Van Blundht pretending to be Mulder but there wasn't even that. 

HG was canonically bi wasn't she? I haven't watched W13 in a long while but IIRC the actors both said they were playing them as though they were in love. I think at times it did get a little queerbaity (to use an overused phrase) in that the showrunner went from "they're friends but it's fine if you want to see something more." to "never say never, they're on a journey together...."

It ended in 2014, which I don't think was too early but did make it considerably less likely than today.

Although I guess I should be thankful they never went the Rizzoli and Isles route of the same timeframe where they openly that they created content for "that demographic" but no homo! To the point where they created this promo: 

Speed dating promo

That is straight up something you would see to advertise Castle which was always blatantly about Castle/Beckett. 

[Annber03]

Glad to see this thread pop up again - I would like to add the various pairings, both canon and potentially canon, on the U.S. version of "Ghosts" to my list. I like the potential with Thor and Flower, and Pete and Alberta. And then the couples that are together, or are starting on a new relationship, Sam/Jay and Isaac/Nigel are very enjoyable and cute and lovely. I really like how they've built up the whole thing with Isaac and Nigel and I look forward to seeing how they continue to develop that relationship next season. 

[Columbo]

Sam and Dianne from Cheers is probably my favourite least favourite tv couple. By that I mean they have great chemistry but it's clear they would never work long term as a couple.

But a couple I believe have even greater chemistry is Ross and Rachel from Friends. When they were together, even when they weren't together, it felt like fire without seeing fire. Just such intense chemistry that I scoff anytime someone says Ross and Rachel have more chemistry with other people. Bit doubtful they would work long term. 

[Scarlett45]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:13 PM, Luckylyn said:

Sometimes there’ll be a fanbase for a ship that the show runners didn’t intend.  On One Tree Hill there are people who shipped best friends Lucas/Haley.  They were never romantic on the show.  Haley marries his brother.  Still the writers would occasionally acknowledge  the Lucas/Haley ship.    When Lucas’s book turns into a movie he mentions the producers wanted him to change it so the character based on him ends up with the one based on Haley.  Luke jokingly proposes to Haley when showing her the engagement ring he picked out for his fiancee.  I love that the scene ends with her teasing him by taking the ring telling him he’ll have to get another one for his girlfriend.  So the writer’s acknowledge the fanbase for Lucas/Haley exists, but  never gives fans false hope it will happen.  That show wasn’t perfect and I quit watching before it ended but it at least did okay by letting Lucas/Haley be best friends.

One of the things I loved about OTH was the Lucas/Haley friendship- it was very well written, acted and so natural. Yes a hetero man/woman can just be friends.

[Sarahsmile416]

Worst couples (despite insane chemistry):

Danny and Mindy from The Mindy Project 

Ross and Rachel (probably since both actors had a thing for each other but never did anything about it since they were both in relationships at the time)

Buffy and Spike 

Buffy and Angel 

Eric and Sookie (True Blood - the series not the book).  

This doesn’t fit the chemistry part but I hated them just the same - Ted and Robin (HIMYM) 

Best Couples:

Leslie and Ben (Parks and Rec)

April and Andy (Parks and Rec)

Chloe and Lucifer (Lucifer) 

Eleanor and Chidi (Yes, they had no chemistry but were just a sweet couple that I definitely believed loved each other). 

Monica and Richard (yeah I always preferred them to Monica and Chandler)

Marshall and Lily (HIMYM)

Best Platonic Friendships: 

Leslie and Ron and Leslie and Ann (Parks and Rec)…and honestly, I loved the relationship April and Leslie had at the end of the series 

Tara and Buffy (yes it was only for a short time in Season 6, but damn, I loved it!)

Eleanor and everyone else in The Good Place

Mateo and Cheyenne (Superstore) 

Pam and Michael (The Office) 

Chandler and Joey

 

I think the one takeaway that can be had from all of this is that Michael Schur knows how to construct a good relationship.  From Parks and Rec to The Good Place to Brooklyn Nine-Nine - he has the ability to create good pairings that don’t need drama and heartbreak to keep them static and healthy - they just are.  

 

[Mabinogia]

35 minutes ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

I think the one takeaway that can be had from all of this is that Michael Schur knows how to construct a good relationship.  From Parks and Rec to The Good Place to Brooklyn Nine-Nine - he has the ability to create good pairings that don’t need drama and heartbreak to keep them static and healthy - they just are.

Totally agree. He doesn't seem to resort to the "I hate you/I love you" concept of passion that so many writers rely on. Ben and Leslie are one of my all time favorite pairings. They are so adorably dorky and in love. Jake and Amy on B99 are very similar in being a perfect fit for each other and complimenting one another. 

He proves that loving couples don't have to be boring. Both those couples, and most of his couples, are just plain fun to watch. 

He's also great at writing friendships, even, dare I say it, male/female platonic friendships! Yes, they are possible! Michael and Eleanor (Good Place) Ron and Leslie (Parks and Rec) are my favorites. 

[Chaos Theory]

BTVS is a weird animal.   It bought into the teenage girl romanization of the “older guy” scenario that is not actually romantic when you take a step back.   Essentially what was Angel?  A guy who dumped his gf and turned on her after they had sex.   Spike was the romantic stalker in all those romance novels that gets the girl because he just won’t give up regardless of what the girl wants.     It’s funny people bitch about Xander and the “nice guy” trope but if you take a step back it is Spike who fits it better.  “damn it I changed for you so how dare you not love me.”    But then again the actual nice guy Riley was written so freaking boring until they gave him a drug problem and some serious anger issues….so whatever.  

Edited April 25, 2022 by Chaos Theory

[Featherhat]

2 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Totally agree. He doesn't seem to resort to the "I hate you/I love you" concept of passion that so many writers rely on. Ben and Leslie are one of my all time favorite pairings. They are so adorably dorky and in love. Jake and Amy on B99 are very similar in being a perfect fit for each other and complimenting one another. 

He proves that loving couples don't have to be boring. Both those couples, and most of his couples, are just plain fun to watch. 

He's also great at writing friendships, even, dare I say it, male/female platonic friendships! Yes, they are possible! Michael and Eleanor (Good Place) Ron and Leslie (Parks and Rec) are my favorites. 

I adore Jake/Amy and one reason I love it is that it doesn't actually rely on uptight girl/man child. At first look that's what it seems to be going for but they turn that on it's head early on. Amy's just as goofy as Jake and Jake does a lot of growing up before they get together and he's as much of a dork as Amy in different ways. They fill in each other's cracks (title of your sex tape) without being "what the hell do they actually do/say when they're together at home?" 

Ben/Leslie was just Dork/Dork which awesome, especially after the complete misfire that was Leslie/Mark. I know S1 Leslie was basically a different character but it was painful to watch her moon after that guy. 

[Mabinogia]

5 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

Ben/Leslie was just Dork/Dork which awesome, especially after the complete misfire that was Leslie/Mark. I know S1 Leslie was basically a different character but it was painful to watch her moon after that guy. 

ugh, Mark was the worst! So glad that ended and we got Ben. Ben and Leslie were two peas in a pod. 

I agree about Amy and Jake being way more than the typical uptight girl (Amy was soooo not, despite her love of organization) and manchild (which Jake was at the start, but he was so much more than that and knew when to grow up). I love their super competitive but also super supportive relationship. 

[SusanM]

I always liked Penny and Leonard on Big Bang Theory.  I know a lot of people found them to be an unlikely couple but to me they really worked.  I guess it's because I have a social science background and the most exercise I get is sorting my bookshelf and I married a marathon running engineer but their differences never bothered me the way it bugged others.  

My husband and I are re-watching Star Trek Voyager right now and it's obvious in the first few seasons that they toyed with making Janeway and Chacotay a couple. I'm glad they never went there with them even though I think they would have been good together.  That said why on earth did they end up pairing him with Seven of Nine?  Talk about a romance that came out of left field and never really made any sense.

Edited April 25, 2022 by SusanM

[Chaos Theory]

9 minutes ago, SusanM said:

I always liked Penny and Leonard on Big Bang Theory.  I know a lot of people found them to be an unlikely couple but to me they really worked.  I guess it's because I have a social science background and the most exercise I get is sorting my bookshelf and I married a marathon running engineer but their differences never bothered me the way it bugged others.  

Penny and Leonard worked because they worked at it and even when they weren’t together they cared about each other.    Like when Leonard had to chose between Pria his current girlfriend and Penny and told Penny what was going on and instead of them both acting like children Penny agreed to back off and Leonard had his thing with a girl who fizzled out naturally.    Of course they were different. That was kind of the point of the entire relationship.  

 

15 minutes ago, SusanM said:

 

My husband and I are re-watching Star Trek Voyager right now and it's obvious in the first few seasons that they toyed with making Janeway and Chacotay a couple. I'm glad they never went there with them even though I think they would have been good together.  That said why on earth did they end up pairing him with Seven of Nine?  Talk about a romance that came out of left field and never really made any sense.

The Chacotay and Seven relationship was there solely to counter the HUGE Janeway and Seven ship that was never going to happen on screen.  

[Featherhat]

26 minutes ago, SusanM said:

My husband and I are re-watching Star Trek Voyager right now and it's obvious in the first few seasons that they toyed with making Janeway and Chacotay a couple. I'm glad they never went there with them even though I think they would have been good together.  That said why on earth did they end up pairing him with Seven of Nine?  Talk about a romance that came out of left field and never really made any sense.

I liked Janeway's platonic relationship with Chakotay but not the potential romantic one, I'm glad they backed off that after Resolutions. Seven/Chakotay was basically Robert Beltran campaigning for it wasn't it? He was getting less and less to do so they gave him that as a sop? There's probably more to it but that's the only reason I can think of that it appeared out of nowhere and because they couldn't have the show's "sex symbol" not be in a relationship forever. 

Ironically Seven/Janeway was basically both characters best and most complex relationship, despite tension between the actors. There's one ep that ends with Janeway listing all the ways she's been there for Seven and will continue to be there for her and it's very intimate. 

I know they were stuck because it was difficult for Janeway to date anyone subordinate to her but I'm not sure "fake Irish holodeck boyfriend who somehow realises he's not a real person but is okay with that" was the way to go. 

Platonically Janeway/Tuvok was also awesome (Tuvok is my favourite Vulcan, sacrilege). That show actually had a lot of chemistry between it's cast despite so-so romance and so-so plots. 

ETA: 

Quote

The Chacotay and Seven relationship was there solely to counter the HUGE Janeway and Seven ship that was never going to happen on screen.  

Or that. 

Edited April 25, 2022 by Featherhat

[Sarahsmile416]

3 hours ago, Mabinogia said:

Totally agree. He doesn't seem to resort to the "I hate you/I love you" concept of passion that so many writers rely on. Ben and Leslie are one of my all time favorite pairings. They are so adorably dorky and in love. Jake and Amy on B99 are very similar in being a perfect fit for each other and complimenting one another. 

He proves that loving couples don't have to be boring. Both those couples, and most of his couples, are just plain fun to watch. 

He's also great at writing friendships, even, dare I say it, male/female platonic friendships! Yes, they are possible! Michael and Eleanor (Good Place) Ron and Leslie (Parks and Rec) are my favorites. 

Yes! Part of what I love about Ben and Leslie is that they took the enemies to lovers to end game idea and made it almost beautiful. What could have been a disastrous pairing was wonderful in the hands of Michael Schur and also, Poehler and Scott.   

Less said about Mark and Leslie the better - for the most part I like to pretend Season 1 didn’t exist lol

The only misstep in terms of Schur couples on Parks and Rec for me was Chris/Ann (though I’m sure MMV) - I thought the way they were shoehorned together at the end was awkwardly done, though I’m sure Rashida Jones leaving the show kind of made that happen.  What made it that much worse is that Ann’s desire to have a baby went from “I don’t know how to handle kids” to “I’ve always wanted a baby” in the course of one episode.  Of course since Rob Lowe was leaving too they had to make him the choice of baby daddy.   

I can’t think of any missteps on The Good Place and I’ve never seen Brooklyn Nine Nine, but he may have learned from earlier missteps 

[SusanM]

55 minutes ago, Featherhat said:

That show actually had a lot of chemistry between it's cast despite so-so romance and so-so plots. 

I think this is one reason why Voyager is hands down my favourite Star Trek (I know I am in a minority with this) anyway you've made me think about it and I realize that with the exception of Tom and B'Lanna they pretty much kept the romances to  a minimum - a few flings with aliens and on the holodeck and then towards the end the Chacotay/Seven of Nine thing but mostly they avoided the Peyton Place in Space theme that could have developed.  So glad they didn't do that!

[Annber03]

8 hours ago, Columbo said:

Sam and Dianne from Cheers is probably my favourite least favourite tv couple. By that I mean they have great chemistry but it's clear they would never work long term as a couple. 

Yeah, I finally checked out "Cheers" in full for the first time last year, and I absolutely see why this pairing was so popular. Like you said, they had a great chemistry and played off each other perfectly. The tension between them really did make their interactions spark, for better and worse.

But I agree that it'd be hard to see them making it for the long haul. Which makes the moment at the end of the episode where Diane leaves all the more bittersweet and poignant - they both wanted something with each other that they knew full well, deep down, they'd never get. 

[Bastet]

11 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

But I agree that it'd be hard to see them making it for the long haul.

That's the problem with a lot of will they/won't they couples -- they're not suited to a traditional long-term couple relationship, but the writers try to force them into one once they quit dragging things out and hook them up, as if it's the only kind that exists, and it's just a big ol' mess.

Let some of them decide they should just fuck a few times to get it out of their system and move on.  Let some of them agree to a friends with benefits relationship.  Let some of them try the couple thing and realize it's not right for them, without all the melodrama.  Let some of them - gasp - decide their friendship and/or work relationship would be altered by adding sexual intimacy, and they'd rather keep things as they are rather than risk that changed dynamic having a negative effect.

[Annber03]

27 minutes ago, Bastet said:

That's the problem with a lot of will they/won't they couples -- they're not suited to a traditional long-term couple relationship, but the writers try to force them into one once they quit dragging things out and hook them up, as if it's the only kind that exists, and it's just a big ol' mess.

I think a lot of shippers often tend to forget this fact, too, and that also factors in. They push the writers to make the ship canon, the writers listen, and the shippers get angry when the couple has its predictable back and forth/break up and get back together/etc., even though, like you said, with some of these couples, the fact they can't maintain a long-term relationship is kind of the point. 

Most of the ships I go for do tend to be the sort I can see being in it for the long haul, and indeed, the ones that have become canon, by and large, have proven that to be the case. But I also understand why some of them don't become canon, too, because even if I do think they can make it long-term, depending on the show, the relationship isn't meant to be a main focus, or the writers may not be up to writing for a long-term relationship, or, were they to get together in canon, something could happen that could mess that up, or whatever. So much of the time, I tend to figure that if any pairings I like get together in canon, it'll be in the final season/final episode(s), and I'm fine with that, because then I can imagine where things go from there in my own way, on my own time. If a pairing I like becomes canon earlier than that, and remains a stable, happy couple throughout the rest of the series, which has happened, then hey, great :)! That's just a nice bonus. 

And if I get into a pairing that has a messy history and may not last very long, for some reason or another (they're just not in the right headspace to have a long-term thing, the story's one where they're likely to or will die eventually, etc.), then nothing that happens with them is a shock to me, because, well, I knew going in it was going to be an ill-fated romance. 

[Trini]

6 hours ago, Sarahsmile416 said:

This doesn’t fit the chemistry part but I hated them just the same - Ted and Robin (HIMYM) 

I didn't hate them; and I think on paper it made sense for them to get together (at least for a while), and they had chemistry. However, the impression I got (can't recall any specific thing) the first time they were a couple is that the writers actually didn't like them together.* So it never made sense to me that they kept putting them back together.

 

*(I guess now we know why: Ted/Robin "end game".)

----

I agree that Janeway dating her subordinate/2nd in Command would probably be a bad idea, but I still wanted to see her and Chakotay together.  :-/

[Columbo]

Seems to me there are three types of will they/won't they couples driven by the writing staff.

1. There's the "This couple probably won't last very long but their chemistry will create lots of drama and/or laughter." (Sam and Dianne from Cheers)

2. There's the "Wow these two have great chemistry. We should put these two together but drag it out until even our most forgiving fans will hate us." (Ross and Rachel from Friends)

 

3. And finally there's the "it may take a few seasons, but it's obvious these two will be getting together. Once they do they will never split up." (Jim and Pam from the Office).

[Columbo]

7 minutes ago, Trini said:

I didn't hate them; and I think on paper it made sense for them to get together (at least for a while), and they had chemistry. However, the impression I got (can't recall any specific thing) the first time they were a couple is that the writers actually didn't like them together.* So it never made sense to me that they kept putting them back together.

 

*(I guess now we know why: Ted/Robin "end game".)

----

I agree that Janeway dating her subordinate/2nd in Command would probably be a bad idea, but I still wanted to see her and Chakotay together.  :-/

They had to ruin at least nine seasons of character progression from Barney so they could go for their stupid ending. If nothing else HIMYM taught me that sometimes the ending you want is not the ending you need.