S02.E03: Hollywoodland

[redpencil]

Quote

Not spoiled at all, but I found it a bit too much of a coincidence that they brought up "four people can't travel in the Lifeboat," Lucy and Wyatt sleep together and Jiya's visions suddenly vanish.

I don't think her visions are vanishing. I just assumed there's no medical explanation for them, and somehow her heart murmur was also cured.

Quote

So after a year, they didn't take a long hard look at what they were doing wrong, and fix it. Oh well. Note to show: kill off your most worthless character: Wyatt. Fire your worst actor (ML). That one action will change the show for the better. But it's not likely it'll make it to season three anyway, so.

It's not as if what is "wrong" is an objective fact and they're just refusing to fix it. If they did this, it would ruin the show for me. I feel like I'm watching a different show than you are, though, so perhaps it would indeed make it better for you.

[BooBear]

4 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The other problem is we've been told Rittenhouse is some sort of all powerful organization stretching back to the 1700s. You'd think they could easily plant someone in a studio as a producer, or get a column submitted to a Hearst newspaper without having to use a sleeper agent who would then have to spend the next 15 years of his life working his way up through the legitimate ranks. It doesn't make it seem like Rittenhouse is really all that powerful, does it?

I took it that Rittenhouse is just planting people in a time period with no real plan other than "we need someone in the entertainment industry" etc.  Had that sleeper agent not been where he was they might have been forced to improvise and have him kill a producer and take over his identity or something.   But I agree with you.. I can't even really consider the Rittenhouse plot because it is beyond ridiculous and seems like a heck of a lot of work for no real pay off.  Worse there is no guarantee that their changing something in the past that they think would benefit them wouldn't destroy them (potentially leading to the time machine never being built -- whoopsie) I just hope that this is a stop gap to see if the show can get a third season and if so, they will go to something else, like Lucy Wyatt et al did so much damage they now have to go back and try to right things. But Rittenhouse is not sustainable. 

Quote

So after a year, they didn't take a long hard look at what they were doing wrong, and fix it. 

I am going to bet that they think what they did last year is what will bring in the fans so I am sure nothing will change. That is ok by me.  I enjoy nit picking it afterward and enjoy the main cast. Though I think they have Lucy acting too much like a school girl with a crush so far. 

[JackONeill]

12 minutes ago, BooBear said:

I took it that Rittenhouse is just planting people in a time period with no real plan other than "we need someone in the entertainment industry" etc.  Had that sleeper agent not been where he was they might have been forced to improvise and have him kill a producer and take over his identity or something.   But I agree with you.. I can't even really consider the Rittenhouse plot because it is beyond ridiculous and seems like a heck of a lot of work for no real pay off.  Worse there is no guarantee that their changing something in the past that they think would benefit them wouldn't destroy them (potentially leading to the time machine never being built -- whoopsie) I just hope that this is a stop gap to see if the show can get a third season and if so, they will go to something else, like Lucy Wyatt et al did so much damage they now have to go back and try to right things. But Rittenhouse is not sustainable. 

I am going to bet that they think what they did last year is what will bring in the fans so I am sure nothing will change. That is ok by me.  I enjoy nit picking it afterward and enjoy the main cast. Though I think they have Lucy acting too much like a school girl with a crush so far. 

I think they deliberately went with younger actors for the leads (as opposed to Goran and Susanna Thompson) because they wanted that “Golly, gee whiz” attitude.

[KaveDweller]

8 hours ago, Amerilla said:

As a historical matter, it's hard to say if it would have matted. 

Patents are valid for 20 years and they aren't renewable. Her tech was patented in 1942, so it would have expired in 1962 no matter what they did. The military didn't start using it until it was already out from under patent. This wasn't an attempt to screw her over: the military was resistant to using outside/civilian designs in the 1940s and early Cold War, and the technology itself was apparently tricky to implement. Her design needed to find its moment, and that moment didn't come until 20+ year later.

Also, if the patent could be renewed and the military had to start paying to use her technology, they would have had to use money that was going elsewhere in the original history. 

2 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't really care either - I can handwave the costumes and the money. But for some reason it really stood out to me that Wyatt was going into a situation without a gun - that's very unlike him, not to mention terribly remiss for the "muscle" of the team. That seemed more like a mistake than just something the writers didn't want to bother explaining. 

I did however find it extremely unlikely that Lucy would know so many details about old Hollywood like the name of the guy who ran Paramount Studios and whether or not the guy Rufus was pretending to be won an Oscar. So she's a film historian too?

She is a historian on whatever they need her to be a historian on. Despite the fact that history has majorly changed and should no longer match what she once knew.

[Stuffy]

3 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't really care either - I can handwave the costumes and the money. But for some reason it really stood out to me that Wyatt was going into a situation without a gun - that's very unlike him, not to mention terribly remiss for the "muscle" of the team. That seemed more like a mistake than just something the writers didn't want to bother explaining. 

Wyatt had a gun and a silencer. The first indication was when they were in the executive's office pitching ideas. Wyatt puts his drink down and reaches behind his back ready to pull a gun.  Then they realized the studio head wasn't Rittenhous and he relaxed.  He also pulled it out from his back then screwed the silencer on when they were following the guy at the end before the shootout. It was dark so easy to miss.  

Matt probably didn't actually have a fake gun under his sweater, but he acted like he did. 

[thuganomics85]

Damn, they totally went there with Jessica still being alive.  I honestly thought that the idea was so obvious that the show wouldn't do that, but they proved me wrong.  Completely with it happening right after Wyatt and Lucy sleep together.  Not wild about this development.

Other then that, another pretty fun episode.  Always get a kick out of shows visiting "old-timey" Hollywood.  And Hedy Lamarr really seems to be getting popular now with time-traveling shows!  Almost couldn't believe that was Alyssa Sutherland in that role.  Completely different from her Aslaug in Vikings.  Also enjoyed seeing Teddy Sears as the Rittenhouse plant.

So, not only did the doctor find nothing wrong with Jiya, but a heart murmur she had all her life is suddenly gone.  What is going on with her?!

Rufus continues to be the best.

Not surprised Flynn is already out of prison and "part of the team" now.  Combine that with the recent Wyatt revelations and Connor/Christopher one bad word away from probably tearing each others throats out, and I'm sure the drama will be ramping up! 

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Color me shocked, I tell you, SHOCKED that Jessica is back (for a bit, at least).  Didn't expect it quite so soon, but no surprise at all.  Lyatt kiss, sex, and hey Jessica!  That happened so fast they almost transitioned from the "pillow talk" right into Wyatt findng Jessica at the bar.

The only thing that really left me going "hmmmm..." was at the end, when the alarm started blaring and Flynn tells them to put the guns down as they go to try & intercept the 'intruder(s)'.  What did he know about the whole thing??  He seemed cautious in action, but also seemed to be not surprised and expecting it at the same time.

So not only does Jiya have the seer sight, but she also is now completely healthy - despite the seizures.  I'm guessing there's something wrong that normal medical technology can't detect, or she's some kind of time anomaly. 

[benteen]

Wyatt and Lucy were a lot of fun together by the pool.  Nice to see them finally get together but I hope this Jessica thing resolves itself quickly.

Good episode, loved the setting.

Aslaug was Hedy!

[Leesee]

Anyone else bothered by the fact that the actor playing Hedy Lamarr used a British accent?  Lamarr was Austrian and had a noticeable accent.  It would have been better to play her without an accent at all, maybe.....

[ketose]

14 hours ago, CooperTV said:

It could be both of these things: they slept together for more drama during the season (because sex between main characters usually means real relationship, not a one-night-stand), and also because Lucy is going to be pregnant with a timey-wimey baby with magic abilities.

Of course, in Doctor Who, the time baby was conceived in the time machine.

[legaleagle53]

12 hours ago, Netfoot said:

Lucy continues to wear horrible, frumpy outfits.  The singing - I had to pour boiling olive oil in my ears to ease the pain.  Lyatt (ugh) is naturally followed, only minutes later by the return of Jessica, whose expression promises much draaama to follow.  Jiya  now shown to be in perfect health!  Except for the seizures/visions.  The consequence of which the writers have not hinted at, probably because the writers haven't figured them out yet.  In his goal to prevent the past from being altered, Rufus deliberately drops a hint that creates a vast personal fortune where one previously never existed.  And nobody will kill that supercilious ass Flynn and put me out of my misery!

I'm out.

You call that classic Old Hollywood day outfit she wore "frumpy"?  That was the height of chic in 1941, and Lucy looked stunning in it.  And mileage definitely varies regarding her singing.  I've only seen a short clip of the scene so far, but I started getting verklempt listening to Abigail sing that (and she said it was the "live" version that they used, incidentally!).

You may be out, but I'm most definitely IN!

[Netfoot]

1 minute ago, legaleagle53 said:

You call that classic Old Hollywood day outfit she wore "frumpy"?

You mean that White & Gold (or was it Blue & Black?) potato sack she wore?  Yes, I would.

[legaleagle53]

2 minutes ago, Netfoot said:

You mean that White & Gold (or was it Blue & Black?) potato sack she wore?  Yes, I would.

Not THAT dress (although it was actually inspired by Katharine Hepburn's dress in "The Philadelphia Story."  Brush up on your Hollywood classics!).  I specifically referred to her DAY outfit that she wore when she first arrived in 1941.  The red hat and the blue dress with the red pumps and the bright-red lipstick.  THAT was Old Hollywood chic in 1941, and it honestly wouldn't look out of place in 2018.

[IWantCandy71]

4 hours ago, redpencil said:

I don't think her visions are vanishing. I just assumed there's no medical explanation for them, and somehow her heart murmur was also cured.

It's not as if what is "wrong" is an objective fact and they're just refusing to fix it. If they did this, it would ruin the show for me. I feel like I'm watching a different show than you are, though, so perhaps it would indeed make it better for you.

 

4 hours ago, redpencil said:

I don't think her visions are vanishing. I just assumed there's no medical explanation for them, and somehow her heart murmur was also cured.

It's not as if what is "wrong" is an objective fact and they're just refusing to fix it. If they did this, it would ruin the show for me. I feel like I'm watching a different show than you are, though, so perhaps it would indeed make it better for you.

Who said it was objective fact? Nobody. You like Wyatt? Great for you. I think the character exists for "beefcake". And NOPE. We are watching the exact same show. You do realize it's rude to hint that just because someone doesn't like what you like, they are watching a different show? I am not knocking you or mocking you because you like Wyatt. I deserve the same respect. Thanks so much, and have a great night.

[Netfoot]

Just now, legaleagle53 said:

Not THAT dress...

What EVER she wears, she makes it look frumpy.

[legaleagle53]

46 minutes ago, Leesee said:

Anyone else bothered by the fact that the actor playing Hedy Lamarr used a British accent?  Lamarr was Austrian and had a noticeable accent.  It would have been better to play her without an accent at all, maybe.....

That's not as far-fetched as you might think, though.  Most Europeans learn English on the British model, not the American standard, so their accents will actually sound at least a tad British to the untrained ear.  I worked for five years for a native German attorney who was born and raised in Berlin, and she definitely had an accent when she spoke in English, but she always insisted that she sounded more British than German, and she even said that that is what people had always told her.

[redpencil]

Quote

Who said it was objective fact? Nobody. You like Wyatt? Great for you. I think the character exists for "beefcake". And NOPE. We are watching the exact same show. You do realize it's rude to hint that just because someone doesn't like what you like, they are watching a different show? I am not knocking you or mocking you because you like Wyatt. I deserve the same respect. Thanks so much, and have a great night.

I didn't intend any disrespect, and apologize for any offense. I certainly understand that people will like different things. But your original comment implied that by doing what you had suggested (getting rid of Wyatt), the show would automatically be better, and by not doing so the show runners were willfully preventing it from being better. Obviously what makes a show better is subjective, as is like or dislike for a character, but your comments didn't seem to allow for other opinions. I realize you likely didn't intend it that way.

 

Anyway. I really don't like that we have to wait two weeks for the next episode. I don't particularly like that Jessica is back, but I'd rather get back to it and start powering through wherever that storyline takes us as soon as possible. Also, since I've watched tv before, it was probably too much to ask for it to be dropped, especially given how much emotional weight it was given in S1, plus the lingering mystery of why wiping the guy who supposedly killed her from existence didn't bring her back the first time. So, in a way, I'm glad it's happening now so we can just get it over with, rather than that possibility hanging over our heads for however long the show stays around.

[legaleagle53]

1 minute ago, redpencil said:

Anyway. I really don't like that we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.

The two-week wait is because next Sunday is Easter.

2 minutes ago, redpencil said:

plus the lingering mystery of why wiping the guy who supposedly killed her from existence didn't bring her back the first time

That was explained in that particular episode.  The guy in question wasn't the one who killed her -- he was lying when he told Wyatt that he had.

[redpencil]

Quote

The two-week wait is because next Sunday is Easter.

Oh, I know. I get it, just impatient.

Quote

That was explained in that particular episode.  The guy in question wasn't the one who killed her -- he was lying when he told Wyatt that he had.

Right, but they never really explained where Flynn came up with that name, right? Did he genuinely think that was who killed her? Or was he deliberately misleading Wyatt? I got the impression that he genuinely thought that was the guy. So we don't know why he was wrong (whether that was never the guy who killed her, or it was a hit and someone else just killed her instead--in which case why is she back now--or go soap opera and she had faked her death). There are still a lot of questions there.

[bros402]

So Jiya being perfectly healthy in this episode - anyone else thinking that her body is sort of incongruous with time, and when she has an episode, it's her future brain jumping to her current brain? Since her heart murmur went away - maybe her heart is now functioning like her pre-murmur heart

[redpencil]

I just had a thought about Jessica that will either be explained or will be a plot hole. Rufus said that his family thinks he's dead, right? So shouldn't the same be true of Jessica if she had never died? Since she texted him (or if it wasn't her, she definitely wasn't shocked he was alive), that can't be the case. So either something else is going on (like she's Rittenhouse and knows he didn't actually die from them) or somehow alt-Wyatt didn't follow orders and contacted her when he wasn't supposed to. Or just as likely, it remains a plot hole, in which case I'll just go with the latter explanation in my mind.

Edited March 27, 2018 by redpencil

[Mrs. DuRona]

Mr. D and I think that Jessica was Rittenhouse all along, never actually died, just went back into the fold.  It would make her less sympathetic when Wyatt inevitably chooses Lucy over her.  Also, because the show has pretty much made us suspicious of anyone.  As soon as they started kissing, I blurted out "Dead wife Jessica is TOTALLY showing up at the end of the episode!"  Predictable, but I don't care. :)

As an amateur film historian mildly obsessed with the story behind Citizen Kane, I was really touched that the showrunners made an episode just for me. :)  

The only outfit that didn't work for me on Lucy was the last one, but I think it's because there was no styling to go with it.  I laughed when they were like "you stole another outfit?"  and she replied "it's my favorite era".  I turned to Mr. D and said if I had a time machine, I would take ALL the vintage clothes.  :)

I loved Rufus this week, he continues to be such a treat to watch!  His Fresh Prince "poem", his reaction to Lucy and Wyatt.  So funny!

As far as not giving a shit about saving history anymore goes: Rittenhouse has been altering it quietly for a while now - who knows what's real and what's Rittenhouse anymore?  So, why the hell not?

Jiya has kind of a "The Age of Adeline" thing going, we think.  She is getting funky visions and is totally healthy - she is "outside of time", and will now never age or die.  I know the visions aren't from that movie, but the idea of never getting sick or aging is a possibility.  

ETA: I think Lucy does her hair and makeup before they leave, so she just has to worry about clothes.  Might explain why she wasn't done up at all on the second day - she didn't pack anything. (Not that she couldn't have used some of Hedy's makeup or hair stuff...)

Edited March 27, 2018 by Mrs. DuRona

[AngelKitty]

8 hours ago, redpencil said:

I really don't like that we have to wait two weeks for the next episode.

Ah man, I did not know that. Bummer.

[Amerilla]

12 hours ago, KaveDweller said:

15 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I did however find it extremely unlikely that Lucy would know so many details about old Hollywood like the name of the guy who ran Paramount Studios and whether or not the guy Rufus was pretending to be won an Oscar. So she's a film historian too?

1

She is a historian on whatever they need her to be a historian on. Despite the fact that history has majorly changed and should no longer match what she once knew.

 

The history on the show is so basic that Lucy could be a grad student teaching first-year US History seminar, and history geeks -- such as myself -- tend to have an endless supply of trivia based on the whims of our interest.

So, in the previous episode, Lucy knew the basics: that NASCAR arose out of Southern moonshining culture, arguably something a historian with a grounding in early 20th century cultural history would know -- but Wyatt knew the details, because it was something he was plausibly interested in. In "Hollywoodland," Lucy clearly had an interest in 1940s film history, but she wouldn't need to be a film historian per se -- just read a couple books on the era and retained a few of the details. 

Plus, nothing they've done so far has changed history in a way that's resulted in (to paraphrase early Wyatt) dinosaurs walking down Fifth Avenue. Details have changed, but the broad sweep of history is (so far) intact.

9 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

Anyone else bothered by the fact that the actor playing Hedy Lamarr used a British accent?  Lamarr was Austrian and had a noticeable accent.  It would have been better to play her without an accent at all, maybe.....

I thought it was pretty spot-on. She was doing a Mid-Atlantic accent (or Transatlantic accent), which sounds very British, with a slight Austrian accent. Most people working in the US entertainment industry in that era would have been drilled to speak that way.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/oh-old-timey-movie-voice/

[legaleagle53]

1 hour ago, Amerilla said:

I thought it was pretty spot-on. She was doing a Mid-Atlantic accent (or Transatlantic accent), which sounds very British, with a slight Austrian accent. Most people working in the US entertainment industry in that era would have been drilled to speak that way.

https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2011/08/oh-old-timey-movie-voice/

Exactly.  To the untrained ear, Hedy would actually sound quite British, and Hedy would have learned standard British English, which means that she would have learned British pronunciation.

Incidentally, this is what American historian and author Richard Rhodes said about her:

Quote

Of all the European émigrés who escaped Nazi Germany and Nazi Austria, she was one of the very few who succeeded in moving to another culture and becoming a full-fledged star herself. There were so very few who could make the transition linguistically or culturally. She really was a resourceful human being–I think because of her father’s strong influence on her as a child.

So she probably had an ear for languages in addition to her many other gifts.

[Cthulhudrew]

On 3/26/2018 at 7:02 AM, Netfoot said:

Jiya  now shown to be in perfect health!  Except for the seizures/visions.  The consequence of which the writers have not hinted at, probably because the writers haven't figured them out yet. 

My guess is that Jiya's future visions will somehow be used to get the jump on Rittenhouse by allowing her to see their plans in advance, rather than just reacting after the fact by tracking where their lifeboat has jumped to. They'll have to get her visions to stop focusing solely on Rufus first, I'd imagine.

It would be a shame if they did indeed just drop the seizure/health angle, because it feels like they didn't really explore the potential consequences to her (it has been a B plot, at best, for three episodes). 

It also feels a little unnecessary (if my theory is correct), because I thought that role was supposed to be filled by Flynn and Lucy's journal. (Did they lose Lucy's journal at some point and I forgot? Because otherwise I don't understand why they aren't using it to get ahead of Rittenhouse like Flynn did last season.)

[augmentedfourth]

Rufus is a treasure. Puffy heart love.

 

There's totally going to be a Lucy/Wyatt time baby at some point. I predict the season finale.

 

I knew Jessica's return was inevitable and was "meh" on it, but I have to admit, the way it played out at the end piqued my interest a little. She was NOT happy to see Wyatt, and that was an intentional shot focusing on her engagement ring. I like the theory another poster suggested where in whatever timeline they returned to, their marital problems just weren't able to be resolved, and she's just been living her life without him for the past couple years and he has no idea what transpired in her version of events. (But yeah, there's a pretty good chance she's going to wind up being Rittenhouse. Which, that's another "meh".)

 

My take on the Jiya scenes was that clearly, there is something "wrong" with her, but it's some sort of time-related issue that current medical tests can't pick up. So she'll still have her seizures/visions, but today's doctors can't find a reason for it.

[Shanna Marie]

12 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

And mileage definitely varies regarding her singing.  I've only seen a short clip of the scene so far, but I started getting verklempt listening to Abigail sing that (and she said it was the "live" version that they used, incidentally!).

I thought her singing was quite good once she got going (and I'm a singer and have perfect pitch, so I'm really picky about singing). It was realistically good for the situation -- didn't sound fake and overproduced (probably because they used the live version), started with a lot of nerves (and she realistically portrayed what a voice sounds like when you're tense and nervous so that you lose control of the pitch and have no breath support), but got a lot stronger as she loosened up and started to have fun. I wasn't cringing from her not hitting the pitches accurately, and once she got into a comfort zone, she had a solid sound with good support. I thought it worked as a depiction of someone with some talent and maybe a bit of training and some experience, but being a bit rusty and not at all used to performing in that kind of setting.

I loved the dress from The Philadelphia Story, but that's one of my all-time favorite movies, and of course that's the dress she'd pick when raiding a Hollywood wardrobe. It made sense that it didn't quite fit her, since she grabbed it off the rack. I have a raging case of wardrobe envy from that blue dress with red hat she wore when they first arrived.

[CooperTV]

17 minutes ago, augmentedfourth said:

My take on the Jiya scenes was that clearly, there is something "wrong" with her, but it's some sort of time-related issue that current medical tests can't pick up. So she'll still have her seizures/visions, but today's doctors can't find a reason for it.

My first thought was that she has minuscule singularity/"black hole" in her head that causes her to be in several times at once and causes seizures. Although it doesn't explain the lack of seizure scars on her scans.

[Raja]

So Master sergeant Wyatt goes off the farm yet again, he must be the most unreliable elite special forces operator in TV and movie history. I wonder if they are going with the dual shooter series format with Flynn and Wyatt trading missions like the old Combat series had the Sergeant lead episodes alternating with the Lieutenant lead ones? Or is Wyatt being written out until another Rittenhouse mission takes his wife again?

Edited March 27, 2018 by Raja

[JackONeill]

28 minutes ago, Raja said:

So Master sergeant Wyatt goes off the farm yet again, he must be the most unreliable elite special forces operator in TV and movie history. I wonder if they are going with the dual shooter series format with Flynn and Wyatt trading missions like the old Combat series had the Sergeant lead episodes alternating with the Lieutenant lead ones? Or is Wyatt being written out until another Rittenhouse mission takes his wife again?

If this show were in its 4th or 5th season, I could see this. It’s often done to give the true lead a break. Unfortunately, I don’t think ML qualifies as the true lead. Another thing that bugs me about it — despite what I just said about ML — is by changing up the leads, if that’s what is going on, it will make it difficult to build a solid audience. I mean this season is only 10 episodes. A series needs to create a warm home for an audience to come to. Switching up the leads would not help create that homey feeling.

Then again, they have, I assume, Goran under contract. It would be stupid to keep him locked in a cell with only 45 seconds of screen time.

[Shanna Marie]

9 minutes ago, JackONeill said:

If this show were in its 4th or 5th season, I could see this. It’s often done to give the true lead a break. Unfortunately, I don’t think ML qualifies as the true lead. Another thing that bugs me about it — despite what I just said about ML — is by changing up the leads, if that’s what is going on, it will make it difficult to build a solid audience.

Likely, it will be like the episode last season when he got benched, where he had his own storyline in the present, so he still had plenty of screen time. They'll probably cut back and forth between the other group time traveling and him in the present dealing with the fallout of this episode.

[iMonrey]

Quote

As soon as they started kissing, I blurted out "Dead wife Jessica is TOTALLY showing up at the end of the episode!"  Predictable, but I don't care. :

Well, the real give-away was the "previously on Timeless" clip that showed Wyatt telling Lucy he used to be married. I just hope they don't drag this out because if it turns out she's part of Rittenhouse I could see a long arc where Wyatt is torn and doesn't know she's secretly evil and that will be tedious. I'm not super confident the show will handle this well - it's already too cliche she showed up right after Wyatt and Lucy slept together. Soap Opera 101.

Quote

Lucy clearly had an interest in 1940s film history, but she wouldn't need to be a film historian per se -- just read a couple books on the era and retained a few of the details. 

I'm a huge movie buff and even I couldn't tell you who was running Paramount in 1941. MGM, sure, but Paramount? No. That's not a famous name. 

[Shanna Marie]

9 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

I just hope they don't drag this out because if it turns out she's part of Rittenhouse I could see a long arc where Wyatt is torn and doesn't know she's secretly evil and that will be tedious.

Maybe it'll just be that if she hadn't died, they'd have divorced and she's with someone else now, so it will be a case of getting what he wants, but not in the way he wanted it. All the time he was trying to rewrite history to get her back, and he hadn't considered that from her perspective, history wouldn't have changed. She wouldn't know she'd been dead. If she hadn't died in his timeline, he might not have felt the way about her that he did because he lost her. It wouldn't be a joyous reunion of people separated by death. It just would be life continuing. So if she hadn't been killed, there might have been more fights until the marriage totally fell apart. He might want to be with her now because he lost her and came to appreciate her more because of that, but he may come to realize that he's changed since then, and she's changed from when he last saw her and has moved on, so yay, she's alive, but the bad news is she doesn't want to be with him.

[BooBear]

8 hours ago, augmentedfourth said:

I knew Jessica's return was inevitable and was "meh" on it, but I have to admit, the way it played out at the end piqued my interest a little. She was NOT happy to see Wyatt, and that was an intentional shot focusing on her engagement ring. I like the theory another poster suggested where in whatever timeline they returned to, their marital problems just weren't able to be resolved, and she's just been living her life without him for the past couple years and he has no idea what transpired in her version of events. (But yeah, there's a pretty good chance she's going to wind up being Rittenhouse. Which, that's another "meh".)

They have been really delving into Wyatt childhood story this year when last year they didn't mention it at all, AND Jessica did have a look on her face like she was "conflicted" when he hugged her. So my momentary theory is that Wyatt is Rittenhouse Royalty and Jessica is also Rittenhouse. She was first destined to marry and reproduce with Wyatt but when they had problems Rittenhouse pulled her out pushing Wyatt into motivation for joining time team. It is unclear if they ever wanted him to bond with Lucy or just wanted as many Rittenhouse on team time as they could. Now Rittenhouse realizes after episode one this year that Lucy will not join them as long as she has team time and so they are trying to break them up so Lucy and or Wyatt will be vulnerable to joining their birthrights.   Jessica might not have been dead at all and that was why Wyatt wasn't able to bring her back with his time manipulations. Rittenhouse just sent the text telling Wyatt where Jessica was. She didn't look like she was expecting him.

Quote

'm not super confident the show will handle this well - it's already too cliche she showed up right after Wyatt and Lucy slept together. Soap Opera 101.

Get ready... I think they are going on a deep dive both on the Soap Opera 101 train ( can't wait for the pregnancy reveal) and the deep myth-arc conspiracy.

[augmentedfourth]

Another quick thought: They've been spending time revealing Wyatt's troubled youth and bad things he did over the past couple episodes. I wonder if, in this new timeline they've come back to where Jessica is alive and well (though maybe not quite happy), she's going to tell him that sometime in the "missing years" between when she died in the original timeline and present day in the current one, he did something really shitty to her. Which, of course, he'll have no memory of, but realize it wouldn't have been out of character for him. Then he's going to hate himself and more ANGST! will result. But Lucy will be there to pick up the pieces and assure him he's not a terrible person, blah blah blah.

[Terrafamilia]

On 3/26/2018 at 1:13 PM, reggiejax said:

I got to say, Rittenhouse's plan this time out was unnecessarily convoluted. Depositing an agent in Hollywood in the 1920's just so he can spend 15 years working his way up to a position of power within the studios, whereby in 1941 he can steal Citizen Kane for Hearst, just seems like the long way to go. Especially since the objective is merely to get a column in the Hearst papers. I think there are easier, less time consuming ways to achieve both of those goals. Though I guess for modern day Rittenhouse, time consuming isn't really a problem, is it? Still convoluted though. 

The real objective was to get Jurassic Park produced in 1941. The Citizen Kane bit was just for giggles.

That gas-mask they stashed for Flynn must have been pretty fantastic to have held up so well for over 75 years.

Edited March 28, 2018 by Terrafamilia

[Cirien]

On ‎26‎/‎03‎/‎2018 at 12:57 PM, Eolivet said:

Not spoiled at all, but I found it a bit too much of a coincidence that they brought up "four people can't travel in the Lifeboat," Lucy and Wyatt sleep together and Jiya's visions suddenly vanish.

For Doctor Who fans, will this be a Melody Pond-type situation? For soap fans ... well ... is there a plot-related reason they had to actually sleep together as opposed to just make out a little bit? I wonder.

As a Doctor Who fan.....well after you suggested it I went and looked up the actress who plays Jiya and compared her to Abigail Spencer and Matt Lanter and....I can see it? I'm not saying thye have to go that way but it they want to then, it wouldn't be out of left field 

[legaleagle53]

12 hours ago, Shanna Marie said:

I loved the dress from The Philadelphia Story, but that's one of my all-time favorite movies, and of course that's the dress she'd pick when raiding a Hollywood wardrobe. It made sense that it didn't quite fit her, since she grabbed it off the rack. I have a raging case of wardrobe envy from that blue dress with red hat she wore when they first arrived.

The blue dress and red hat ensemble shot to the top of my list of favorite Lucy period outfits, and her hair and makeup were definitely on point, especially the bright red lipstick. And Abigail Spencer has said that she's a huge fan of 1940s fashions and Old Hollywood glamour, so making this episode must have been a dream come true for her.

It was really interesting to hear the Rittenhouse sleeper's almost bitter reaction to failing in his mission after having spent 15 years working his ass off to build himself up to the point that he'd be in the position to carry out the mission.  I have to wonder if, as with the sleeper in 1955, he'd built something of a life for himself during those 15 years -- he didn't exactly seem thrilled when his father told him he'd be returning to 2018 after he'd completed his assignment.

But you know who really stole the episode for me?  Rufus.  That's the first time I've seen him lead out the way he did on the Paramount lot (even if Hedy Lamarr sussed him out as a fake within about five minutes of meeting him) -- he acted like a total boss, and it was so much fun to see.  And his almost mortified reaction to catching Lucy and Wyatt in bed and realizing that they'd done the nasty was priceless -- I kept expecting him to go running and screaming "MY EYES, MY EYES!!!"

[Maverick]

I think sleepers 'going native' will be a recurring theme.  Rittenhouse probably figure that after a decade plus of no smartphones, Netflix or sushi the sleepers would be thrilled when someone showed up to activate them and return them to 2018. 

 I could deal with the Rittenhouse Plot of the Week trope to drive the story but I don't understand bringing in Lucy's grandfather.   How is he supposed to be the one to come up with all these plans to reshape history when he hasn't experienced half of the time periods these missions are on.   

[bros402]

15 hours ago, CooperTV said:

My first thought was that she has minuscule singularity/"black hole" in her head that causes her to be in several times at once and causes seizures. Although it doesn't explain the lack of seizure scars on her scans.

Seizure scars?

[CooperTV]

3 hours ago, bros402 said:

Seizure scars?

Aka brain damage. I just couldn't remember how it's called at the time.

Edited March 28, 2018 by CooperTV

[marceline]

On 3/26/2018 at 10:49 PM, legaleagle53 said:

Not THAT dress (although it was actually inspired by Katharine Hepburn's dress in "The Philadelphia Story."  Brush up on your Hollywood classics!).  I specifically referred to her DAY outfit that she wore when she first arrived in 1941.  The red hat and the blue dress with the red pumps and the bright-red lipstick.  THAT was Old Hollywood chic in 1941, and it honestly wouldn't look out of place in 2018.

I looked at that outfit and felt like I was having a flashback to "Marvel's Agent Carter."

Sigh...Rest in peace Peggy. You are missed.

[mythoughtis]

My adult son has seizures. He’s had multiple MRIs. No doctor has ever suggested seizure scars or subsequent brain damage showing on scans. He does suffer memory loss from a few hours before /after a seizure.  His seizures only happen occasionally- sometimes years between each. He’s also medicated. Regarding the doctor pronouncing Jyia fit- she’s got epilepsy because she’s had at least two seizures without an apparent cause. 

[Clanstarling]

On 3/26/2018 at 6:31 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Not surprised Flynn is already out of prison and "part of the team" now. 

The enemy of my enemy is my friend...until they aren't any more. Age old story - I'm sure he'll come back to bite them.

18 hours ago, legaleagle53 said:

But you know who really stole the episode for me?  Rufus.  That's the first time I've seen him lead out the way he did on the Paramount lot (even if Hedy Lamarr sussed him out as a fake within about five minutes of meeting him) -- he acted like a total boss, and it was so much fun to see.  And his almost mortified reaction to catching Lucy and Wyatt in bed and realizing that they'd done the nasty was priceless -- I kept expecting him to go running and screaming "MY EYES, MY EYES!!!"

I loved that this is the first episode (I think) where he's treated with respect in the past. Langston Hughes was a brilliant choice. I was thinking he might remember some of Hughes' later works, but loved the Fresh Prince poem, and Hedy's response to it. The actor who plays him is my favorite in any case, and I'm happy he got to be the one barrelling in with a barely feasible story.

I'm not fond of the actor who plays Wyatt, but I have to say, he really brought it this episode. For once he seemed more than a Ken doll with GI Joe overtones. Hopefully he'll continue to bring it.

I don't know what to think about the newly restored wife. I personally didn't get much from her expression. Lots of good theories why she's alive again (or never died). I tend to go with the simplest - that whoever killed her was fathered by the guard or the Rittenhouse guy later after that date, in the original timeline.

As for Hedy's accent, I don't know what she really sounded like. But I can attest that Austrians and Germans learn "British" English, so a British accent is not out of bounds. I grew up in Germany and Austria and went to a German realschule for a year. I used the differences in British and American English to my advantage (but that's the way WE spell it in America!).

[bros402]

20 hours ago, CooperTV said:

Aka brain damage. I just couldn't remember how it's called at the time.

Seizures don't leave brain damage

17 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

My adult son has seizures. He’s had multiple MRIs. No doctor has ever suggested seizure scars or subsequent brain damage showing on scans. He does suffer memory loss from a few hours before /after a seizure.  His seizures only happen occasionally- sometimes years between each. He’s also medicated. Regarding the doctor pronouncing Jyia fit- she’s got epilepsy because she’s had at least two seizures without an apparent cause. 

That is what i was going to say - I have had seizures since I was 6 years old and multiple MRIs - no brain damage that can be attributed to seizures. I also have occasional seizures - been over 2 years since my last seizure (Yay!)

[CooperTV]

2 hours ago, bros402 said:

Seizures don't leave brain damage

Note again that I was discussing a situation where someone has a minuscule black hole or singularity in their head due to unsafe time travel. I'm not sure this sci-fi premise I suggested for Jiya, a fictional character from a sci-fi show (it's not even my idea, to be fair, I stole it from a fanfic I read), could be applicable to real life or anyone's real life experiences.

[mythoughtis]

6 hours ago, bros402 said:

I also have occasional seizures - been over 2 years since my last seizure (Yay!)

congratulations! You must be taking care of yourself! 

Edited March 29, 2018 by mythoughtis

[iMonrey]

Quote

They have been really delving into Wyatt childhood story this year when last year they didn't mention it at all, AND Jessica did have a look on her face like she was "conflicted" when he hugged her. So my momentary theory is that Wyatt is Rittenhouse Royalty and Jessica is also Rittenhouse.

Personally I don't think they've been "delving" into Wyatt's past to any great extent or for any explicit purpose, other than trying to make him sympathetic to the race car driver last week. But perhaps I don't want to read too much into that because I really don't want them to double down on this whole Rittenhouse thing. It's the one thing on the show that really isn't working, and if Revolution is any indication, the way Eric Kripke deals with narrative problems is by doubling down on them. That has me worried.

It's also going to become increasingly problematic for Team Time to keep being reactive rather than proactive. All they seem to do is chase after people trying to change the timeline - Flynn in Season One and now these sleeper agents and Emma. Are they going to spend the rest of their lives just waiting for Jiya to tell them where the Mother Ship has gone next? They need to figure out a way to thwart Rittenhouse once and for all - seems to me they could simply go back in time far enough to prevent the original from ever being born. I realize that might change the timeline to such an extent that Lucy herself is never born, but maybe they should consider taking the risk and potentially making the sacrifice. The alternative is to just keep chasing their tails every week and eventually Rittenhouse is going to change the timeline anyway.

[Shanna Marie]

10 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Personally I don't think they've been "delving" into Wyatt's past to any great extent or for any explicit purpose, other than trying to make him sympathetic to the race car driver last week.

I thought that also had a lot to do with making more of a bond between him and Lucy, since later in the episode they connected over having had terrible parents. She's reeling from learning the kind of person her mother really is, and she learns that he came from a background with a criminal father he broke away from.

I somehow doubt that a low-class drug smuggler (the way they made Wyatt's father sound) is Rittenhouse royalty. Wyatt seems to be from kind of a redneck background. If anything, they're almost playing with the screwball comedy trope of the working-class man and the princess -- appropriate for this episode in old Hollywood, right down to her wearing the dress from The Philadelphia Story. Though the upper-class girl in that movie didn't actually end up with the working-class guy (the Jimmy Stewart character).