S06.E01: Dead Hand

[jjj]

That was an incredibly stupid killing -- windows everywhere.  And cross streets behind her.  Plus, she had to rifle through his pockets to get the ID back.  It is not like she stabbed him and kept walking.  Having Paige in the field may push Elizabeth into more risky behavior.  

Was that really Henry on the ice?  Will Henry become even more invisible this season?  Reduced to a protective face mask!  

I totally did not notice that Mr. Artist-Husband/Summit Planner was Max Medina from Gilmore Girls -- thank you, Recap!

Edited March 29, 2018 by jjj

[EtheltoTillie]

We still don't know if Stan's girlfriend is a spy!  I can't wait for some more FBI involvement. Still great to have this back despite flaws. 

[Aulty]

3 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

Chekhov's suicide pill. Somebody's going to take it, just a matter of who, when, and why.

My money is on Claudia - probably for something involving Paige, or Paige herself.

Very promising start to the final season, I can't wait, and at the same time dread, to see how the Jennings' story will end.

[Chaos Theory]

7 hours ago, MJ Frog said:

Chekhov's suicide pill. Somebody's going to take it, just a matter of who, when, and why.

Point of order.  No one ever used Martha's Gun.  This show is too good to go with the obvious tropes.  Not saying it won’t.  Just saying it doesn’t have to.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[skotnikov]

The dialog in Mexico was extremely funny. Keri Russell obviously doesn't care about speaking Russian, so basically she said "yes" (da) three times and "no" (njet) once (the translation was more elaborated though.) It reminded me of this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lv3uUV-tEs8

Edited March 30, 2018 by skotnikov

[kay1864]

5 hours ago, VCRTracking said:

The movie posters next to Phil's car were clues: "Wall Street", "Less Than Zero" "Revenge of the Nerds Part II: Nerds in Paradise", "The Pick Up Artist".

IMDB says that Wall Street came out in December 1987, and Nerds II in July 1987.  Can't imagine that Nerds would still be playing three months later, or that Wall Street would be advertised two months early. 

[kokapetl]

Philip looks like he’s had a facelift or something. 

[Ellaria]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

I thought that was a pretty impeccable premiere and gives me hope for the final season after last season's stagnation.  In fact, I think this premiere had more plot than the whole fifth season.  The fifth season brought us to an important place...i.e. Phillip quitting. 

Agree - an excellent premiere and I, too, am more confident about the final season. Loved the way that they eased all of the players back into the story. Renee is still around so she either is some sort of spy or really loves Stan. Nice to see Arkady again. Glad that Oleg is in the US attempting to do something worthwhile but I think that he is doomed (sadly).

 

7 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

I know I can be hard on Paige but she managed to make me lose even more respect for her here. Other agents already uncomfortable with her being so young. Elizabeth considers it her job to clean up any problems Double-oh Dumbass might have while assuring her she did everything right. Elizabeth  should probably not be training her own child...

...Even her "ha ha liberal college student!" rant at Stan's was just kind of sad because she probably wouldn't criticize the USSR as objectively--she's not really a liberal college student.  I'm almost the exact age as Paige and while my own college experience wasn't any big revelation that anybody else should emulate and I've often wished I had some clear direction back then, watching her made me appreciate having that time explore things. Enjoy classes. Be a student with friends etc. Paige seems to have inherited one of her mother's worst qualities--that need to hide behind her "cause" with relationships--naturally she's in off-campus housing as well. 

No, she shouldn't be training her own child. Elizabeth sees Paige as an extension of herself and that, IMO, is going to cause problems. It is the writer's choice, of course, but Paige's acceptance of the "spy life" would be more believable if we saw some of her interaction with her peers, her personal life. She spends her free time watching movies with Mom and Faux Granny and going to dinner parties with her parents. Paige continues to feel like a plot device rather than a complete character.

7 hours ago, mattie0808 said:

Well, we got an hour of Happy!Phillip. Nice to see you. Country line dancing no less!...

Happy!Philip was delightful. I know that it will not last but I love seeing him as a successful business man and doting dad at hockey games. Maybe he will wise up and run away to Canada...

[JFParnell]

7 hours ago, Irlandesa said:

So Oleg got married.  There goes my Martha/Oleg ship. 

LOL. I'm only just now realizing, thanks to your comment, that I forgot to even think about Martha's whereabouts in 1987! She probably dodged a romantic bullet though - no way poor Oleg makes it out of this finale alive. (I hope I'm wrong but he just feels like a character who dies...)

[Chaos Theory]

Paige is in a lot  of ways an extension of Elizabeth.  She never did question something when she chose it.  She went all in but then when it didn’t go as planned got disenchanted with it pretty easy as well.  

Of course Elizabeth shouldn’t be training Paige but I am not sure she would trust anyone else to do it.  Paige needs as least SOME spycraft even if you buy the Second generation spiel.  My guess is that Claudia has an agenda when it comes to Paige as well which will be interesting.  

Even Martha got some spycraft from Clark when she needed it.  Paige does need to learn the basics of she wants to survive.   

I don’t have a problem with her not questioning the world.  I know plenty of people who don’t.  Especially people who get sheltered the way Elizabeth and Claudia are sheltering her at this point.   She is a lot like Elizabeth in that way.  Wearing blinders.

Which is what I find fascinating. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Chaos Theory

[JFParnell]

This was a compelling premiere. I hope the rest of the season lives up to the promises it's making.

Time jump wasn't as jarring, for longtime viewers, as I thought it would be. They had to cover a lot of ground in only a few sequences. Funny though that the Crowded House song repeated its verses during the longish opening bit - find a longer song? :) 

Page took a quantum leap forward (or would it be backward?) in her general stupidity. She doesn't have the slightest clue she might be on a sinking ship.

Liked Happy Philip, the boots callback, etc. Meanwhile Unhappy Elizabeth is just determined to keep the dream alive. She's taken so many innocent lives - no wonder she can't sleep!

Hockey Henry ... okie dokeeee. Shrug. Someone was out there skating anyway.

Hi, Mr. Medina! You're a long way from Chilton and Lorelai, aren't you?

Random Q: Does anyone else agree that the music playing during the Elizabeth/operative Russian-speaking (or Russian-subtitled anyway!) sequence was, literally, too LOUD? It's not a complaint - just an observation. Seemed a bit too prominent. Or maybe my ears are just wonky!

[benteen]

Good lord, Elizabeth, just ****ing LISTEN to Philip!  It's clear he had something important to say but Elizabeth immediately gets defensive when Philip rightly calls her out about being burnt out.

While a little longer, I thought that was a good episode that sets up a GREAT storyline for the rest of the season.  I can't wait to see how it plays out.

Very happy to see the return of Arkady.  Oleg's storyline is immediately more interesting than it was in the entire 5th season.  I'm very interested in knowing what happened to him over the past three years.

Way to go, Super Spy Paige....you already had your first collateral damage.  Paige is now a godless commie with no loyalty to her home country.  I just don't get it.  What is she hoping to get out of this?  Philip is more of an American than she is now. 

Paige's disguise was terrible and I can't see security bro wanting to pick her up with her with those awful glasses and hat.

If I heard correctly, the woman who was working with Elizabeth doesn't know that Paige is her daughter.

Poor Elizabeth, I guess dropping cars on random dudes has lost its appeal for her.  She deserves to be in the situation she's in and it's intriguing as hell.  It would make sense for her to be more in tune with the KGB hardliners.

As always, this show has great music choices. 

I'm glad Henry got to go to the private school.

Edited March 29, 2018 by benteen

[Mrs Shibbles]

26 minutes ago, JFParnell said:

 

Random Q: Does anyone else agree that the music playing during the Elizabeth/operative Russian-speaking (or Russian-subtitled anyway!) sequence was, literally, too LOUD? It's not a complaint - just an observation. Seemed a bit too prominent. Or maybe my ears are just wonky!

I was listening to it on Bluetooth headphones and for a moment I thought they were picking up some sort of interference.    

[SunnyBeBe]

Well, I was apprehensive about last night, but, I must say that I was pretty happy with it.  It had a different vibe to me.....not sure what it was, but, it just felt different.  I haven't looked to see who directed.  Anyway, I have so many impressions and questions. 

I used to dislike 80's music, but, now....after a while you start liking nostalgia.  It really set the mood for me. I hope that continues.

I prefer Paige 2.0, even though she still struggles. Her look is much improved and thank goodness she grew some confidence. I'm trying to move past how she used to annoy me and start fresh.  It just seems to me that she would have more potential for the Centre staying completely below the radar and working towards a larger goal, which would include both of her parents getting out of the spy business before getting further attention. But, they only have one more season, so, I guess there's no time for that. lol

Questions:

When Renee was talking to the Dennis's wife while Elizabeth was listening in the kitchen, she mentioned work on a couple.  What did she say? Did she mean the mystery couple of Philip and Elizabeth or was there a couple issue at the office.  I missed it TWICE.

When Elizabeth was at the meeting in Mexico, she appeared in a daze, saying very little.  Were they being taped? Was she bored?  Does she have her own agenda in mind? Her eyes looked like she might be a little disturbed mentally. 

When Elizabeth is in the sick lady's room, she stares at the artwork. Are these all of Elizabeth? Do any identify her? Will they go on display when the woman dies?  Makes me nervous. 

When Oleg casually returned to the USA, why didn't it set off bells?  Wasn't he the center of a huge plan with the FBI, only Stan tried to squash it?  

[Dev F]

6 hours ago, Tetraneutron said:

@jjjThe black guy was Norm. He's a low-level operative, like Hans was. We've seen him before. The blonde lady is Marilyn, ditto. They're KGB, but not super-secret Stop the Washington Summit level like Elizabeth.

Yep. Norm's backstory is unknown, but Marilyn is apparently an American-born agent whom Gabriel recruited and passed along to the Jenningses when they were short on blocking/surveillance people at the end of season 4. She seems to be the person Gabe was talking about when he described a fortysomething librarian whom "you wouldn't even notice her if she sat on your lap."

I think both she and Norm were supposed to be fairly green prior to the time jump, since in season 4 Gabriel only knew Norm as "the older man," and both of them were pretty freaked out when Philip had to kill the guy in the lab in Kansas last season. It's one of the few nods to the fact that the Jenningses operational capacity has been diminished in recent years with the loss of seasoned agents like Gregory.

 

20 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When Renee was talking to the Dennis's wife while Elizabeth was listening in the kitchen, she mentioned work on a couple.  What did she say? Did she mean the mystery couple of Philip and Elizabeth or was there a couple issue at the office.  I missed it TWICE.

She's talking about the Stan's agent Sofia and her boyfriend (now husband) Gennadi. She was the really nervous one we met last season, and he was the hockey player and Soviet courier she introduced to the FBI.

[preeya]

5 hours ago, jjj said:

I totally did not notice that Mr. Artist-Husband/Summit Planner was Max Medina from Gilmore Girls -- thank you, Recap!

 

 

 

I recognized him as Mark O'Connor from Allegiance. He was Hope Davis' husband.

Edited March 29, 2018 by preeya

[shura]

6 hours ago, NicoleMN6 said:

Would Elizabeth really be so thrown by the cyanide pill? I expected her to tell General Obvious that as a Directorate S operative, she’s never had the luxury of being arrested. She’s been prepared to kill herself rather than surrender for decades now.

My question is, what exactly did she learn there that she now has to kill herself in order to prevent giving it away if captured? That the Russians have some super duper mythical-sounding weapon? That's what is not to be revealed under any circumstances? Someone should tell Putin, he just said pretty much the same thing the other day in his State of the Union address on TV.

5 hours ago, jjj said:

Was that really Henry on the ice?  Will Henry become even more invisible this season?  Reduced to a protective face mask!  

Did they have face masks? I didn't notice and was actually thinking "wow, they really did not take kids safety that seriously in the 80s" when it looked to me like their faces were completely unprotected. And that was some seriously terrible hockey they were playing, by the way. Wayne Gretzkys they are not.

My favorite bit was when, after watching the movie, Elizabeth goes "Wow, I can't believe what Moscow looks like now!" and in the next shot we get the show's usual, depressing blueish-gray-lit Moscow. And then I learn that Mexico is pastel- and golden-hued all over.

[SunnyBeBe]

39 minutes ago, Dev F said:

Yep. Norm's backstory is unknown, but Marilyn is apparently an American-born agent whom Gabriel recruited and passed along to the Jenningses when they were short on blocking/surveillance people at the end of season 4. She seems to be the person Gabe was talking about when he described a fortysomething librarian whom "you wouldn't even notice her if she sat on your lap."

I think both she and Norm were supposed to be fairly green prior to the time jump, since in season 4 Gabriel only knew Norm as "the older man," and both of them were pretty freaked out when Philip had to kill the guy in the lab in Kansas last season. It's one of the few nods to the fact that the Jenningses operational capacity has been diminished in recent years with the loss of seasoned agents like Gregory.

 

She's talking about the Stan's agent Sofia and her boyfriend (now husband) Gennadi. She was the really nervous one we met last season, and he was the hockey player and Soviet courier she introduced to the FBI.

Oh, of course, Makes sense. Thanks. 

Still, that Renee.  Man, she's an odd bird.  I wonder why Elizabeth doesn't think her behavior is strange.  I mean, who gets the wife of partner of their FBI agent's  boyfriend aside like that and makes such comments?  I'm not buying that she's just naive, dumb or nosy.  

Edited March 29, 2018 by SunnyBeBe

[ChromaKelly]

Another season of worrying about Oleg. Don't hurt my Oleg! 
Elizabeth is delusional when it comes to Paige. It was a mistake to bring her in and it's going to bite her in the ass. It's not that Paige is a terrible spy, she really didn't do anything wrong and I agree with another comment that E killed the Navy guy more out of Mama Bear protection than anything. She's just... not Elizabeth. Paige is not going to kill anyone. I also have a hard time believing Paige is now all in with the Soviet Union and believing they are on the side of righteousness. Or maybe she's just really gullible and needs a thing, like she did with the church.
I loved seeing happy Phillip too. I'm sorry this crap with Elizabeth is pulling him back in. He looks like he actually enjoys running a travel agency and line dancing.
The Aderholt family was cute. Stan's girlfriend is definitely up to something.

[Cheyanne11]

10 hours ago, theartandsound said:

I loved this episode. Particularly the mirroring/references to the pilot episode:

1) Use of a Fleetwood Mac song.

2) Phillip cowboy dancing in the mall in the Pilot vs. at a bar here.

3) Someone getting killed/injured because they messed with Paige (Pilot: Phillip beats up scuzzy guy from the mall, Here: Elizabeth kills the Navy guy)

The episode also puts my mind at ease concerning the glacial pace of last season (even for The Americans standards). It was the relative calm before the storm.

EDIT: chocolatine beat me to the punch!

Yes to all of this.  The second they showed Philip line dancing I immediately thought of the pilot scene.  Philip has wanted this life for so long and it was great to see him, at least for a moment, being able to enjoy it.

Elizabeth is like a junkie who knows she's addicted, knows it will probably kill her, but can't quit the drugs.  Totally strung out, but on spying and killing vs. actual substances.

[Aulty]

1 hour ago, SunnyBeBe said:

When Elizabeth is in the sick lady's room, she stares at the artwork. Are these all of Elizabeth? Do any identify her? Will they go on display when the woman dies?  Makes me nervous.

Check the Media Thread - jjj shared a link to an article about the artist and the involvement during the season. Its worth a read and the pictures they chose are stunning.

[halopub]

48 minutes ago, shura said:

My question is, what exactly did she learn there that she now has to kill herself in order to prevent giving it away if captured? That the Russians have some super duper mythical-sounding weapon? That's what is not to be revealed under any circumstances? Someone should tell Putin, he just said pretty much the same thing the other day in his State of the Union address on TV.

Mythical-sounding, but apparently real and still operational.

I have to rewatch but I thought the cyanide pill was if she was about to be caught by pro-Gorbachev, pro-perestroika factions in the potential assassination plot. So if Dead Hand and its tech got floated in dealmaking, Elizabeth would inform the general, trigger the assassination and then have to conceal her own knowledge of both the program and the plot.

Save Oleg!

[VCRTracking]

3 hours ago, Kokapetl said:

Philip looks like he’s had a facelift or something. 

I think he just has better lighting compared to Elizabeth.

[kokapetl]

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t like Oleg. He didn’t do the hard work that the Jennings did, but he knows best?

And dead hand systems still exist. 

Edited March 29, 2018 by Kokapetl

[sacrebleu]

Fun historical/ geography fact! Paige was prob. staked out in Cleveland Park/Woodley Park. If she was a few blocks away from the Naval Observatory and a block from a great Chinese restaurant that was a place for some high-level US-Soviet meetings.  It all checks. There was a restaurant-- closed about 5 years ago-- called Ivy's (or something) that was known as a good neutral meeting place among diplomats.   Although I chuckle to think of that area referred to as a 'bad neighborhood.' It's gentrification city now-- can't buy a one bedroom condo for less than 400K these days.

[kokapetl]

Aren’t embassies usually in really nice areas?

[skippylou]

2 hours ago, benteen said:

Good lord, Elizabeth, just ****ing LISTEN to Philip!  It's clear he had something important to say but Elizabeth immediately gets defensive when Philip rightly calls her out about being burnt out.

 

I think Phillip was about to tell her everything he knew.  After her performance, he may thing twice about that when she is finally ready to listen.

[misstwpherecool]

Philip and Oleg agents out of retirement on a 'special' assignment sort of cliche. Stan about to be pulled back into the game.

What would be a final season with a murder from everyone's favorite sociopath. Apparently a conflicted one. Although a sloppy murder probably much closer to how one with a knife killing would go. (Did she leave the knife in his neck I forget?)

First generation car/mobile phone and line dancing-eeek, the 80s.

Some are wondering who will live and die. I'm wondering who will flip and/or defect

[Blakeston]

6 hours ago, jjj said:

Was that really Henry on the ice?  Will Henry become even more invisible this season?  Reduced to a protective face mask!  

I'm going to be really annoyed if Henry's plotline this season is just about how he gets to live in blissful ignorance as a typical American teenager. I just can't fathom that the Center would be so incredibly stupid as to place all their hopes on Paige, and completely ignore all of Henry's potential.

I could see Henry ultimately being told the truth, and then going to the authorities. Like a parallel to Jared in season two, who took out his family in a very different way.

As for Paige doing surveillance work, I'll buy it if she's only doing it temporarily as part of Spycraft 101. But if that's the case, the show needs to explain that. It never made sense for Elizabeth and Philip to be doing that kind of work themselves, so I think it's possible that the writers are just going with the conceit that all the illegals do risky grunt work, regardless of how valuable they are.

And I had had zero sympathy for the creepy-ass security guard. I know things were different in the eighties, but a government security employee holding someone's ID card hostage unless she dates him? Ugh.

[Maire]

Quote

Philip looks like he’s had a facelift or something. 

I agree! But I thought they were trying to draw a contrast between happy-go-lucky Phillip and haggard Elizabeth. Also the blonde lady at the hockey game was line dancing too. Distraction? Love interest?

[SunnyBeBe]

I found that scene of Elizabeth driving along slowly while the other female agent walked ahead of the focus party. so odd.  Wouldn't those guys see that as strange, especially under the circumstances?

[skippylou]

5 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

Philip and Oleg agents out of retirement on a 'special' assignment sort of cliche. Stan about to be pulled back into the game.

What would be a final season with a murder from everyone's favorite sociopath. Apparently a conflicted one. Although a sloppy murder probably much closer to how one with a knife killing would go. (Did she leave the knife in his neck I forget?)

First generation car/mobile phone and line dancing-eeek, the 80s.

Some are wondering who will live and die. I'm wondering who will flip and/or defect

In the real world there would have been a lot more blood and a lot more time before he goes tango uniform from that stab.   And, yes, she did leave the knife in his neck.

[Tetraneutron]

7 hours ago, jjj said:

 

Was that really Henry on the ice?  Will Henry become even more invisible this season?  Reduced to a protective face mask!  

Keidrich Sellati is still in the opening credits fwiw. Since there are so many dramatic possibilities for the character AND he represents America in the Jennings family, something extremely important in a show about a marriage I have to assume they're building to something with him. 

3 hours ago, Ellaria Sand said:

No, she shouldn't be training her own child. Elizabeth sees Paige as an extension of herself and that, IMO, is going to cause problems. It is the writer's choice, of course, but Paige's acceptance of the "spy life" would be more believable if we saw some of her interaction with her peers, her personal life. She spends her free time watching movies with Mom and Faux Granny and going to dinner parties with her parents. Paige continues to feel like a plot device rather than a complete character.

Happy!Philip was delightful. I know that it will not last but I love seeing him as a successful business man and doting dad at hockey games. Maybe he will wise up and run away to Canada...

Whether E trains Paige or not isn't her decision. It's the Center's. And it makes perfect sense. Paige isn't some rando they've turned like Gregory or Marylin, she's the most valuable asset we've seen on the show. If they pull this off, they could have an in at the highest levels of government, with someone smart and talented and committed. And right now, this potentially incredibly valuable asset is only as involved as she is out of admiration for, and loyalty to, her mother, and liking the extreeeemly sanitized and false image of communism and the state of the USSR, that she gets, entirely, from her mother. (The show dances around this, but even liberal hippies who work at food pantries hated communism and the Soviets). If they're going to draw her in, it has to be through her mother, by emphasising all the things Paige wants (the bonding with her badass, brave, mother) and not working with a Gabriel and being ordered to follow security guards or ruin the lives of nice people like the YoungHees, or have sex with strangers. That would shatter the illusion. 

Philip is such a passive character and he's become even more so, to me. He's spent the whole show ambivalent about what they do and what they believe but he's never actually done anything. Even with the pseudoquitting, he's not taking a stand, he's just stopping, because the Centre lets him for some reason. Does he not care about the world, he just hates the danger and frustration of the spy life? Does he really want to defect like in the beginning of the show? He's a smart guy - does he think it's possible to have it both ways? I don't know and the show refuses to tell me. 

Also, not where I should post this since it's not really about this episode, but I find the gender politics fascinating. On most prestige dramas, the husband is the criminal who goes all in and risks everything and is great at their job and the wife is wringing their hands in the background. And people haaaaate the wife. HATE. They see her as a useless bitch who lives off the spoils of the husband's brains and work and risk and just whines about it while contributing nothing. Look at how people saw Betty Draper, Carmela Soprano, Skylar White. But flip the genders, and people cheer for the husband and hate the wife, still. 

[ChromaKelly]

9 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

Some are wondering who will live and die. I'm wondering who will flip and/or defect

Who Lives, Who Dies, Who Tells Your Story? (couldn't help myself)

[misstwpherecool]

36 minutes ago, Kokapetl said:

This is probably an unpopular opinion, but I don’t like Oleg. He didn’t do the hard work that the Jennings did, but he knows best?

And dead hand systems still exist. 

I think his father got him status and job. Apparently he still has enough not to be considered a traitor.

[Tetraneutron]

6 minutes ago, Blakeston said:

And I had had zero sympathy for the creepy-ass security guard. I know things were different in the eighties, but a government security employee holding someone's ID card hostage unless she dates him? Ugh.

As we've seen the past year or so in the news, yes, men with even a tiny bit of power were creepy and horrible to pretty much any woman. It is entirely sad and entirely believable that a government employee would do that. 

[SunnyBeBe]

Just now, Tetraneutron said:

As we've seen the past year or so in the news, yes, men with even a tiny bit of power were creepy and horrible to pretty much any woman. It is entirely sad and entirely believable that a government employee would do that. 

Little did he know that his impropriety would cost him his life.  But, I knew....as soon as he insisted on keeping that ID and Paige looked upset.....NO WAY he could live.  But, I'm not so sure that Elizabeth was overreacting.  Even with a fake name, with that photo, her image could be put on list of questionable visitors.  OR he could try to look her up, call the college, go to the address and discover that it's fake THEN start a real investigation, so, I get it.  

[misstwpherecool]

6 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I found that scene of Elizabeth driving along slowly while the other female agent walked ahead of the focus party. so odd.  Wouldn't those guys see that as strange, especially under the circumstances?

I can see trying to get close enough to keep the distance optimum for a listening device even on their person  but not with a slow following car even in big city traffic.

[crgirl412]

Was Philip just out at a Country bar for kicks?  Was he somehow working?  That seems really odd that he would be going out to bars on his own now for fun. 

I don't like the redone travel agency only because they went way too far.  It was a very small, fairly dark office with about 3 employees and now it's huge, bright and modern with several employees.   

Does Philip know that Paige is "all in?"  I find that really hard to believe. 

[benteen]

I think Henry is the good son who will do the right thing but I agree that Philip, Elizabeth and the Centre completely missed the boat when it comes to Henry and his potential.  Not to mention Henry noted that the school he goes to is one that congressman and senators send their kids too.  I suspect even with the training that Paige has received, Henry could run rings around her.

[Blakeston]

7 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

As we've seen the past year or so in the news, yes, men with even a tiny bit of power were creepy and horrible to pretty much any woman. It is entirely sad and entirely believable that a government employee would do that. 

I'm not saying it's unbelievable. I'm saying "it was the eighties" is no excuse.

Certain things become more understandable when you consider the time period when they take place. But that guy was just a douchebag, period.

Edited March 29, 2018 by Blakeston

[benteen]

Just now, crgirl412 said:

Was Philip just out at a Country bar for kicks?  Was he somehow working?  That seems really odd that he would be going out to bars on his own now for fun. 

I don't like the redone travel agency only because they went way too far.  It was a very small, fairly dark office with about 3 employees and now it's huge, bright and modern with several employees.   

Does Philip know that Paige is "all in?"  I find that really hard to believe. 

It looked like he was with some of his employees so it must have been a later happy hour sort of thing.

[Tetraneutron]

3 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Little did he know that his impropriety would cost him his life.  But, I knew....as soon as he insisted on keeping that ID and Paige looked upset.....NO WAY he could live.  But, I'm not so sure that Elizabeth was overreacting.  Even with a fake name, with that photo, her image could be put on list of questionable visitors.  OR he could try to look her up, call the college, go to the address and discover that it's fake THEN start a real investigation, so, I get it.  

I agree she had to get the ID back but she could have pickpocketed him easily. Killing a Naval officer who works for the VP is a sure way to get the might of the powerful US government on your tail. But I've been saying the same thing since the show killed Amador so clearly it's just something I'm going to have to accept because television. 

[qtpye]

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

Even her "ha ha liberal college student!" rant at Stan's was just kind of sad because she probably wouldn't criticize the USSR as objectively--she's not really a liberal college student.  I'm almost the exact age as Paige and while my own college experience wasn't any big revelation that anybody else should emulate and I've often wished I had some clear direction back then, watching her made me appreciate having that time explore things. Enjoy classes. Be a student with friends etc. Paige seems to have inherited one of her mother's worst qualities--that need to hide behind her "cause" with relationships--naturally she's in off-campus housing as well. She's not really "one of them." That's just her cover. Her real life's with Mom and Grandma. Two women who are committed to staying the same people they were when they were her age in the 60s and 40s, very different times. And once Paige is onboard she can't just leave like she did the church. What if Mom has to swallow that pill? Is Paige just there to be her dead hand?

2

What was particularly annoying was everyone acting like there is no way Stan or even Phillip can keep up with pontificating strong will scholar Paige...she is just too awesome!

17 hours ago, sistermagpie said:

She handled herself fine, but not *especially* well because it turns out the guy walking away with her ID was such a disaster Elizabeth went behind her back and killed the guy for her. Without telling her. Because Elizabeth isn't treating her the way she would another recruit. I mean, if Paige had *panicked* she would have been so incompetent as to be a joke. Why would she panic? The guy wasn't suspicious. But it turns out that it was her responsibility to get that ID back and she didn't.

Really, if this chick can not even handle an asshole hitting on her...how the hell is she going to be any use to them?  This type of jerk is really small potatoes in the world of espionage. 

Also, they are using "she is young" as an excuse for her stupidity, but she is older than her parents when they were recruited.

 

Quote

lso, not where I should post this since it's not really about this episode, but I find the gender politics fascinating. On most prestige dramas, the husband is the criminal who goes all in and risks everything and is great at their job and the wife is wringing their hands in the background. And people haaaaate the wife. HATE. They see her as a useless bitch who lives off the spoils of the husband's brains and work and risk and just whines about it while contributing nothing. Look at how people saw Betty Draper, Carmela Soprano, Skylar White. But flip the genders, and people cheer for the husband and hate the wife, still. 

They really dropped the ball on this aspect of their relationship. The fantastic actors bring humanity to the role that the writing last year did not. E is just a super robot spy who only lives for the cause and P just lives for his love of E. It is pretty simplistic, but maybe the writing will bring us up to par on this season.

Even though E is a main character, the writers always take more care with P. In the pilot, he is the great protector, stabbing the guy who was creeping on his daughter and killing the man who raped his wife. He has come off as along suffering hero from the beginning who puts other's needs ahead of his own, while E just only thinks of herself and her cause.

The writers can be a little clumsy with the female characters. Their biggest triumph writing-wise was Martha.

I mean look at the difference between Gabriel and Claudia. Gabriel was so nuanced that he was the kindly grandfather that everyone loves. Claudia is just a manipulative out of touch old bitch that no one likes.

Edited March 29, 2018 by qtpye

[SunnyBeBe]

5 minutes ago, crgirl412 said:

Was Philip just out at a Country bar for kicks?  Was he somehow working?  That seems really odd that he would be going out to bars on his own now for fun. 

I don't like the redone travel agency only because they went way too far.  It was a very small, fairly dark office with about 3 employees and now it's huge, bright and modern with several employees.   

Does Philip know that Paige is "all in?"  I find that really hard to believe. 

I'm not so sure that Philip knows the full extent of Paige's involvement with the Centre.  Recall, when P asked E about joining him at Henry's hockey game. she said she had to work, but, then we see her with Paige and Claudia watching a movie, so,.......was that her work? Why not say say she's spending time with Paige?  

[Ina123]

22 minutes ago, misstwpherecool said:

First generation car/mobile phone ...

 

I had one of those. Loved the keypad on the back of the handle. you could reach the entire pad with the index finger and just raise it to your ear. All one motion.

[Ina123]

14 minutes ago, benteen said:

It looked like he was with some of his employees so it must have been a later happy hour sort of thing.

I thought he was still in the city where Henry's school was and just hanging around before time to leave the next day. I thought I saw the lady who was at the hockey game there, not employees.

[kay1864]

1 hour ago, ChromaKelly said:

 He looks like he actually enjoys running a travel agency and line dancing.

Anyone else see the reluctant dancer (the guy the woman pulled off of his chair) and think, "Ah, someone in the DOD, and Philip is going to chat them up"...and then remember that Philip isn't doing that any more.  Still, odd how the camera seemed to target the couple.  

Show makes me suspicious of everybody.

[kay1864]

24 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

OR he could try to look her up, call the college, go to the address and discover that it's fake THEN start a real investigation, so, I get it.  

It's likely that Paige is actually enrolled at the college as Ellen (IIRC), and that the address is a safe house.  Paranoid spies cover their bases.

[Ellaria]

6 minutes ago, Tetraneutron said:

Whether E trains Paige or not isn't her decision. It's the Center's. And it makes perfect sense. Paige isn't some rando they've turned like Gregory or Marylin, she's the most valuable asset we've seen on the show. If they pull this off, they could have an in at the highest levels of government, with someone smart and talented and committed. And right now, this potentially incredibly valuable asset is only as involved as she is out of admiration for, and loyalty to, her mother, and liking the extreeeemly sanitized and false image of communism and the state of the USSR, that she gets, entirely, from her mother. (The show dances around this, but even liberal hippies who work at food pantries hated communism and the Soviets). If they're going to draw her in, it has to be through her mother, by emphasising all the things Paige wants (the bonding with her badass, brave, mother) and not working with a Gabriel and being ordered to follow security guards or ruin the lives of nice people like the YoungHees, or have sex with strangers. That would shatter the illusion. 

Regardless of who makes the decision to train Paige, I don't think that it makes sense for her mother to train her. The other woman in the car with Elizabeth expressed concern about Paige's "readiness." Would Elizabeth have killed the aggressive navy guy if her daughter had not been involved? Would she have reprimanded her protege for losing the ID card rather than say "its OK" if the protege had been someone other than her daughter?

Frankly, we are going to have to agree to disagree about Paige being the "most valuable asset" on the show. I don't think that the writers have demonstrated that she is smart and talented. They tell us that she is but I'm not convinced. Rather, she seems to be a young woman that is insecure and searching for meaning...which is not unusual for someone of her age and experience. However, I question whether it will make her a valuable spy.