S04.E06: The Laws Of Gods And Men 2014.05.11

[Mya Stone]

 

Stannis and Davos set sail with a new strategy. Dany meets with supplicants. Tyrion faces down his father in the throne room.

 

Reminder: This is for discussion of the TV show only, no book talk allowed - including saying "but it's different in the books". Any spoiler from outside the books (i.e. next weeks preview) should be in spoiler tags.

[Quickbeam]

Peter Dinklage for the win!

Edited May 12, 2014 by Quickbeam

[Stardancer Supreme]

Awesome.  And I was taken aback by seeing the end credits screen!  That hour flew by so fast.  

 

I wonder who got to Shae.  How sad that Jamie couldn't get to Tyrion to let him know his life was spared.  But I wonder who might Tyrion choose to be his champion?  He looked angry enough to take someone on himself!  And I would totally bet on Tyrion to win.  Cersei and Tywin had better watch out.

[TooMuchCoffee]

Peter Dinklage for the win!

 

Damn.  I love this show. That was some amazing acting by Dinklage.  

 

Shae came out of freaking nowhere. 

 

If Tyrion names Jaime and loses then Tywin has no sons to carry on the name.  Trump card, Tyrion. 

[lmn]

Go Tyrion... even though it will most likely contribute to your downfall. Damnit Game of Thrones, the feelings I get while watching, it is getting a tad bit much.

 

So the place with the rolling coin in the opening credits is supposed to be Braavos? If so, nice touch producers!

[AimingforYoko]

Just remember kids, Tywin always has a plan, if his damn children (and grandchildren) would just go along. He did kind of overplay his hand when he used Shae, though. Tyrion and Tywin have been down that particular road before, so I don't blame the Imp for getting emotional.

 

So the place with the rolling coin in the opening credits is supposed to be Braavos? If so, nice touch producers!

It's always fun to see a new place on the map. Plus Mark Gatiss and the most intimidating loan committee ever.

[Mya Stone]

Peter Dinklage for the win!

I hereby dub thee, Darth Dinklage! 

[YellowWesterosKing]

 How sad that Jamie couldn't get to Tyrion to let him know his life was spared.  But I wonder who might Tyrion choose to be his champion?  He looked angry enough to take someone on himself! 

Huh? He did get to Tyrion did find out about Jamie's deal, only not hearing what Jamie has promised. Even he had heard that part, I think he still wouldn't have pled guilty. He was just fucking angry at everyone at that point. Basically, it seems like he asked for TBC just to spite his father. Sorry if I'm misunderstanding what you're saying here.

Edited May 12, 2014 by YellowWesterosKing

[lmn]

It's always fun to see a new place on the map. Plus Mark Gatiss and the most intimidating loan committee ever.

Agreed, it is always fun to see a new place in the opening credits. And thank you! I thought that man looked familiar.

[gibasi]

 

How sad that Jamie couldn't get to Tyrion to let him know his life was spared.

Jaime did tell Tyrion that he was to plead guilty and then he would be sent to be with the Knight's Watch.  That's when Tyrion said look how well that turned out for Ned Stark and Jaime said to Tyrion "Do you trust me."  So yes Tyrion knew he was messing the deal up but he was just so devastated by Shae's testimony he did not care.

 

Sorry YellowWestorosKing, I repeated pretty much what you said.  I am slower at typing.

Edited May 12, 2014 by gibasi

[Lady S.]

Awesome.  And I was taken aback by seeing the end credits screen!  That hour flew by so fast.  

 

I wonder who got to Shae.  How sad that Jamie couldn't get to Tyrion to let him know his life was spared.  But I wonder who might Tyrion choose to be his champion?  He looked angry enough to take someone on himself!  And I would totally bet on Tyrion to win.  Cersei and Tywin had better watch out.

Jaime did tell him about the Wall deal, Tyrion didn't trust Tywin. The last we heard of Shae was Cersei pointing her out to Tywin who commanded she be brought to the Tower of the Hand. Either she got off the ship and was seized trying to come back or the redcloaks followed Bronn and got her the ship after he left. Or Bronn lied and just gave her over to Tywin, which I find pretty unlikely since he did force Jaime to help Tyrion.

So the strangler is a very rare poison possessed by few people, because most people who work with potions are maesters. I think we just got the answer to why Olenna needed help from Littlefinger.

Tonight was our first Stark-free ep but that's not a problem when the royal court soap opera is this good. After seeing her name back in the opening, I was waiting all episode for Shae's return. I didn't even really follow the Braavos stuff but 4,000 men and 32 ships is more than I thought Stannis had left. And Sallador Saan is always a welcome surprise.

[TooMuchCoffee]

So Braavos is intriguing. On the one hand, they are all about numbers, says the loan committee chair.  On the other hand, they have faceless men and dancing sword masters.  That seems like a disconnect. 

 

I liked seeing the Salad pirate guy but I couldn't make out the punchline to the joke.

 

Why did Ramsey let Yara go?  

Edited May 12, 2014 by TooMuchCoffee

[dramachick]

I need a Davos in my life to deal with the bloodsucking bank!

 

Poor Tyrion.  What horrible betrayals.  Obviously, Bronn lied to him about Shae so who is he going to have for his champion? 

 

Yara did her best, but I'm glad she knew when to cut her losses.  I think Theon is the most tragic character in this show.  Of all the people affected by the death of Ned Stark, Theon was hurt the most.  He was always weak, and was truly lost and adrift without Ned.  I guess he's still alive in order to carry out one last betrayal. 

 

I was so nervous that little boy was gonna get burnt up.  I hate those dragons.  Dany's finally getting a taste of what it means to rule, and I have a feeling that a few more things are gonna come back to bite her in the arse.

 

[bluvelvet]

You know, Stannis doesn't deserve Davos, he really truly doesn't.  Davos absolutely saved his royal behind and got him the support he needed from the Iron bank, hopefully he doesn't mess it up.

 

Shae, I won't lie, I actually *gasped* when they brought her out. Did not expect that in the least, poor Tyrion, he was so angry. I guess the Castle Black thing isn't going to work after all. Jaime should have just told him everything, that he agree to leave the Kingsguard etc..  However, I agree with the above poster, Tyrion was so angry that it wouldn't have mattered. Also I honestly thought Tywin didn't believe in the twincest but when he told Jaime to father children with the last name "Lannister", he knows. I also loved all the shots between Jaime/Cersei/Tyrion..

 

Tywin is still a bad ass...he gets Tyrion to forfeit his inheritance and gets Jaime out of the Kingsguard. He has a very self satisfied look to his face.

 

I liked the scene with Danaerys and that slavers son, I liked that he told her his father spoke out against crucifying those children. I notice how nice she is to the poor folk and not so nice with the "rich" folk. I still see some Targ crazy, it's just waiting to rear it's ugly head.

 

Why didn't Yara just knock Theon out and then take him with her. When he wakes up he will realize that he wasn't being fooled, however as traumatized as he is, he would probably try to get back to Ramsey.

[dramachick]

The last we heard of Shae was Cersei pointing her out to Tywin who commanded she be brought to the Tower of the Hand. Either she got off the ship and was seized trying to come back or the redcloaks followed Bronn and got her the ship after he left. Or Bronn lied and just gave her over to Tywin, which I find pretty unlikely since he did force Jaime to help Tyrion.

 

I forgot about Cersei pointing her out.  Maybe Bronn didn't lie, and Tyrion still has at least one friend.

[AlliMo]

So basically, it doesn't matter who conquers Westeros and sits the throne, because it's the Iron Bank who holds the mortgage.

 

Oberyn may be a prince, but he's the King of Throwing Shade.

Edited May 12, 2014 by AlliMo

[Stardancer Supreme]

Ah. I had my mother interrupt me while watching GoT.  I'll invest in locks next house. ;)   Poor Tyrion.  Still, I'd bet on the dwarf to save his own hide as opposed to letting others decide his fate.

[Lady S.]

Why did Ramsey let Yara go?

He was sending his hounds-Theon's new roommates-after her. Why they weren't there when the ironborn were outside I can't say, probably the usual stuff about animals not being great actors.

I was so nervous that little boy was gonna get burnt up.  I hate those dragons.  Dany's finally getting a taste of what it means to rule, and I have a feeling that a few more things are gonna come back to bite her in the arse.

I must be an asshole, because Dany's sl had me bored again after I realized Drogon only killed the goats.

[dramachick]

So Braavos is intriguing. On the one hand, they are all about numbers, says the loan committee chair.  On the other hand, they have faceless men and dancing sword masters.  That seems like a disconnect. 

 

I liked seeing the Salad pirate guy but I couldn't make out the punchline to the joke.

 

Why did Ramsey let Yara go?  

 

Re the joke:  If he needed a red shirt so blood couldn't be seen, he would need brown pants _________

 

I think Ramsey let Yara go because there was no benefit to holding her.  Roose would have been pissed as hell at the thought of crazy ass Balon Greyjoy bringing the entire Iron fleet to bear down on him when he hasn't solidified his position as leader of the north.

[bluvelvet]

Soo Theon/Reek has been sleeping in a cage like and animal and hasn't been allowed to even take a bath.  *shudder*..

 

I was also very tense with that bath scene, for some reason I assumed Ramsey was going to hurt Theon/Reek in some way but it looks like he is just using him per his father's instructions.

Edited May 12, 2014 by bluvelvet

[AimingforYoko]

Soo Theon/Reek has been sleeping in a cage liked and animal and hasn't been allowed to even take a bath.  *shudder*..

 

I was also very tense with that bath scene, for some reason I assumed Ramsey was going to hurt Theon/Reek in some way but it looks like he is just using him per his father's instructions.

Why do you think Ramsey calls him 'Reek'?

 

You were supposed to be tense, even the musical cues were sinister.

[dramachick]

I hate Shae.  I can understand being forced to testify against Tyrion, but did she have to twist the knife with all those details about how she held his face, etc.?

 

I don't know what kind of expression Margery was supposed to have on her face while she listened to what she knew were outright lies.

[Independent George]

Re the joke:  If he needed a red shirt so blood couldn't be seen, he would need brown pants _________

 

It's an old joke I've known for years, but I can't hear it these days without thinking about what a Red Shirt means in the Trekverse.

[joliefaire]

^  Exactly!  I laughed out loud at the 'red shirt' reference.  SO Star Trek!  I love that this show slips in these little laugh lines.  So clever.

[TooMuchCoffee]

... just rewatched the final moments. Exactly when  Tyrion demands the trial by combat, the camera cuts to Margaery and Loras.  (They know the truth, or at least Margaery does.) Coincidence?

 

 Tyrion puts a barely perceptible  "eff you daddy dear" smirk on his face and then the stare down between him and Tywin is just brilliant.... with the discordant strains of the Rains of Castemere rising.  So well done. 

 

[bravelittletoaster]

Eh, as soon as there was a pregnant pause for the crown to call its next witness I knew it was Shae, because I've seen tv before. She's like a bad penny. As if I didn't hate her whinny ass enough already...

Also feeling smug that I correctly called the fact that we weren't supposed to be cheering the crucifixion of the masters so fast.

Edited May 12, 2014 by bravelittletoaster

[Lady S.]

... just rewatched the final moments. Exactly when  Tyrion demands the trial by combat, the camera cuts to Margaery and Loras.  (They know the truth, or at least Margaery does.) Coincidence?

I thought I saw a hint of relief? The significance for Marg and Loras would be that at least Tyrion's blood won't be on Daddy Tyrell's hands. I think Olenna exaggerates her disdain for the Tyrell menfolk, but the Lord Oaf is the one person I feel sure wasn't let in on the truth.

I liked how Oberyn was the only one in the small council not to stand when Tywin walked into the room. Good to have confirmation that Jorah did stop spying for Varys. I like how Sandor saying "fuck the king" is a bigger news bulletin than the little ragamuffin traveling with him. The things they still don't know about...

So only Shae (accusing him of conspiring with Sansa) and Cersei (denying that she forced her brave son out of the battle on the Blackwater) were actually making shit up, otherwise they were all purely throwing Tyrion's own words back out of context. Except for Pycelle, who can only conjecture since his stores were raided behind his back, but he showed great courage in defending the nobility of His Grace King Joffrey, the dearly departed.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Lady S.

[ShellSeeker]

I wish Tyrion had gone along with the plan. The Night's Watch could use someone as smart as he is, and he and Jon Snow would have been great sidekicks. Even so, that was such a great scene, and my favorite part was Tyrion telling Cersei that watching her "vicious bastard" (was that what he said?) die gave him more pleasure than 1000 whores could. Ha! And I also loved Tywin's nonchalant smackdown of Cersei, telling her that kicking Barristan Selmy out of the King's Guard was a stupid thing to do.

 

Basically, any time anyone sticks it to Cersei, it is simply awesome.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Queasy-bo

[SourK]

I think this week, like many weeks, showed why King's Landing is the most interesting part of the show -- because that's where most of the characters actually cross paths and interact with each other, and you get this really rich, layered situation based on all of their past encounters. The trial was a great sequence because of that. It also built to a great ending, which is, again, based on the characters' relationships and how they're in an awkward social position. I love it.

 

I liked the scene with Danaerys and that slavers son, I liked that he told her his father spoke out against crucifying those children.

 

I also liked that scene, though I still have issues with the plot line as a whole. When she crucified everyone, I remember thinking, "Um... so, let's say I was a rich man who didn't believe in slavery and wasn't powerful enough to stop it, and now I'm nailed to a post..." They telegraphed pretty clearly that that was a bad decision, since one of her henchmen told her not to do it, but I'm happy that they followed up on it.

 

 

Why didn't Yara just knock Theon out and then take him with her.

 

The whole sequence with Yara seemed like it was rushed or cut for time (especially given the awkward voiceover speech while they're sailing to wherever the hell Theon is -- I forget). I was much more interested in watchign the trial, so it's not like I was salivating for more Theon-centric scenes, but she sure didn't try very hard to rescue him. I mean, after she came all that way. After it was a big cliffhanger last season that she was coming for him. It seemed very anti-climactic. I know she wasn't expecting him to resist, but knocking him out and carrying him to the boat did seem like the clearest solution, so I don't know why nobody tried that.

[Conan Troutman]

1. Oberyn's awesome. Yeah, we all knew that

2. Tyrion invented awesome. Suck it, Oberyn.

3. If this show has the audacity to kill off Tyrion, I'll throw something valuable out of the window. And there will be no Hound to stop me.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Conan Troutman

[thuganomics85]

Damn!  Damn!!!  I never realized how much I was tired of mopey Tyrion, until the trial, where he just let it all out.  That was all kinds of awesome, even if he just threw away a potential out.  Peter Dinklage probably just got himself another Emmy nomination with that scene.  Love the final shot of his smirk and Tywin's glare.  Dinklage and Charles Dance don't even have to say anything to each other, but can bring it with the Tyrion/Tywin moments.

I still like that Jaime was willing to quit the Kingsguard, for Tyrion's sake.  Not sure if Tywin would have kept it (I'm sure he could find some wa yto stage an "accident"), but I'm glad that Jaime is at least still loyal to his brother.

Overall, I enjoyed the trial and seeing the parade of people that Tyrion had conflicts with, and how all of that accidentally came back to bite him on his ass.  Surprised Varys joined in, but I guess he really is about himself first.  And, then there was Shae.  Yeah, I have to wait and see on this.  I'm hoping she was somehow discovered by Tywin, and forced to lie like this.  Because if this was all her because of their "break-up", then... she sucks.  And, I hope we get an answer about how she either slipped by Bronn or, gulp, if he was in on it.  Don't let me down, Bronn!

Meanwhile, Prince Oberyn continues to be awesome.  While everyone else is shocked by Tyrion's "Trial by Combat" twist, of course, he would be more "Oh, yeah!  Now, it's getting good!" about it.  Loved his Small Council scene and the one with Varys as well.  He's just so much fun.

Meanwhile, away from King's Landing:

Um... I guess, RIP, Theon?  He's seems to be full-fledge Reek now.  Sucks that Yara went out of her way to help him, and it all fell apart, but at least she made it out alive.  Ramsey continues to be freaking psychopath and a half.

So, I'm guessing the Iron Bank backed Stannis, after-all?  I guess Davos knows how to represent his king.  He'd make a hell of a talent agent.  Cool seeing Sallader again, even if it was during GOT's typical "gratuitous nudity" segment of the episode.

Oh, Dany.  Being a queen ain't that easy, huh?  Especially when you have dragons who don't always listen to you.  Really curious over the show bring up that Jorah was spying on her at first.  Tywin in particular, seemed to be very interested in that part.

[schmickschmack]

The whole sequence with Yara seemed like it was rushed or cut for time (especially given the awkward voiceover speech while they're sailing to wherever the hell Theon is -- I forget). I was much more interested in watchign the trial, so it's not like I was salivating for more Theon-centric scenes, but she sure didn't try very hard to rescue him. I mean, after she came all that way. After it was a big cliffhanger last season that she was coming for him. It seemed very anti-climactic. I know she wasn't expecting him to resist, but knocking him out and carrying him to the boat did seem like the clearest solution, so I don't know why nobody tried that.

 

I just got this feeling that she realized that what she was coming back for turned out to not be Theon.  I mean, it's one thing to come rescue your brother, it's another to find out that your brother is no longer your brother but some blithering idiot who can't even help you by running out.  There's no love lost there and I think at that point she just decided to cut bait.  What would follow after bringing him back? Years of care or whatever primitive deprogramming they have access to... it seems like a bad bargain.

 

I will say that I think Alfie Allen is so good as Theon. I don't find him particularly attractive but his eyes as Theon were mesmerizing and I feel like the light in them has gone out.  

Edited May 12, 2014 by schmickschmack

[Etta Place]

Oberyn's conversation with Varys was very interesting - a study in contrasts. Oberyn gave some great reaction shots overall; you get the feeling he is learning a lot, and that people are maybe not realizing that he's not missing a thing. Edited to add: It was also a terrific scene of two people realizing they've underestimated each other, when they rarely underestimate anyone.

 

So many possibilities of where Tyrion's trial goes from here- I can't wait to see which direction it goes. I'm betting Tywin doesn't end up happy though, because he's pretty much painted himself into a very small corner at this point.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Etta Place

[Meredith Quill]

So Braavos is intriguing. On the one hand, they are all about numbers, says the loan committee chair.  On the other hand, they have faceless men and dancing sword masters.  That seems like a disconnect. 

The Iron Bank is all about the numbers. They don't represent the whole of Braavos.

[CeeBeeGee]

...my favorite part was Tyrion telling Cersei that watching her "vicious bastard" (was that what he said?) die gave him more pleasure than 1000 whores could. Ha! And I also loved Tywin's nonchalant smackdown of Cersei, telling her that kicking Barristan Selmy out of the King's Guard was a stupid thing to do.

 

Basically, any time anyone sticks it to Cersei, it is simply awesome.

 

So fucking true.  I DETEST Cersei, so much so that at this point I relish her pain that her firstborn died in agony, and that the brother she's shit on for his entire life is throwing it in her face.  And that her father casually but unmistakably called out her lack of strategy.  Almost every time she's humiliated (recent throwdown by the coffin notwithstanding) I love it.  She's a shitty person and she deserves all the shit.

 

I found the aborted Yara rescue raid tremendously disappointing.  Theon is a terrible person but he doesn't deserve the pointless torture and dehumanization that Ramsay is putting him through.  Kill him or be done with him.  The last episode of the last season set up Yara's appropriate (especially against Daddy Greyjoy's callous dismissal) response to Theon's torture, and I've been waiting for it for some 5 episodes now.  Very disappointing.  I really don't give a crap about Ramsay, I don;t find his calculated psycho stare interesting in the slightest. and just wish we were done with that storyline.

 

I'm also noticing some lapses (as I see them) in characterization.  Tywin's endorsement of Tyrion's guilt has always struck me as weird--really, would Tywin be so eager to put Lannister dignity on trial?  Wouldn't he set up some poor sap, put HIM to trial, and punish Tyrion (if indeed he believes Tyron actually killed Joffrey) privately?  It seems off to me.  Tyrion certainly has a point when he says he's on trial for being a dwarf but at the end of season 1, Tywin seemed to recognize Tyrion's brains and surely someone as smart as he is would recognize that the real hero of Blackwater Bay is Tyrion.  I just don't get why he's all "hang him high" now.

 

Similarly Roose's "okay, do what you want with Theon" to Ramsay seems off.  He's indulging Ramsay's cruelty for no good reason.  Ramsay has almost no strategic value--he is a bastard.  Rein him in.

 

And again similarly--Shae, A WHORE, is really THAT sentimental that she pulls this shit?  (Her histrionics in past episodes were endlessly annoying and not believable.)  I just don't buy it and I've been calling Shae Dead Whore Walking for two seasons now, based on Tywin's "the next whore I find in your bed, I'm hanging" remark.  I doubt that Shae will receive the reward she anticipates for her perjury.

 

So the dragons ate the ENTIRE herd?  Damn, they must've been hungry.

 

Really wondering who Tyrion's champion will be!  Jaime?  Bronn?  Prince Oberyn?

 

Very disappointed in Varys.

[CletusMusashi]

I don't think the dragons ate the entire herd. I think they killed it, sort of like kittens in a room full of mice. Remember, they grew up around humans and horses, but have no reason not to consider any goats they see fair targets.

Fucking LOVED this episode. This season started off great, and then slowly weakened each episode. Not enough to be bad, but I thought the eps had sort of slipped from A++ to more like B+. This one was back in the A+ range. Not only was every scene good, but the distribution of them made for exactly the right pacing.

My biggest complaint this week is that I want to become the actor who plays Mace Tyrell.  All he he has to do to get paid is sit there and look like a muppet, except that muppets actually move around and talk and ride bicycles and stuff. How are they even going to figure out what his vote is? 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I love how Oberyn gives absolutely no fucks. He didn't stand up when Tywin entered the small council meeting, he asked some very pointed questions during Tyrion's trial, he didn't deny his privilege as a prince when talking with Varys. He is just hilarious. When Tyrion demanded trial by combat, everyone was clutching their pearls but Oberyn's face said, "Well, this just got interesting!"

 

Mace Tyrell, on the  other hand, couldn't read a room to save his life. When he got all indignant about how he was already the master of ships, I laughed.

 

I'm really going to need some more information to truly believe that CSI: Kings Landing determined that Sansa's necklace actually contained the strangler poison. I don't believe a word out of Pycell's mouth.

 

I never liked Theon, but I was really hoping that Yara would knock him out, toss him over her shoulder, take him away from the Dreadfort, and get him deprogrammed. So what was Ramsay's motivation to essentially invite Yara and Seal Team Six to the Dreadfort to rescue Theon? Did he just want her to see that Theon was still alive and out of his mind?

 

Dany is going to go broke if she keeps overcompensating supplicants for dead goats. Why didn't she just offer to replace them instead of paying three times their value? I'm glad she's finally realizing that ruling isn't as easy as threatening people and freeing slaves. What I find interesting is that she has that hippie mentality that anyone with money aka the masters are automatically bad, but she doesn't seem to realize that making herself the queen puts her in a similar position. What happens if someone else comes along and has blanket hatred for whoever is in charge? I'm not saying that all the masters in the cities she has been to were sweet gentle people who were kind to their slaves, but she is putting things in very black and white terms (master = bad).

 

One of the things I loved about the trial scene was seeing all these people who don't like each other in the same room and the occasional side eye at one or the other.

Edited May 12, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[terrymct]

 

Poor Tyrion.  What horrible betrayals.  Obviously, Bronn lied to him about Shae so who is he going to have for his champion? 

 

 

Bronn didn't necessarily lie to Tyrion.  He put Shae on the ship and watched it pull out of the harbor.  It could have been intercepted anytime after that.

[CletusMusashi]

Oh, you're right. Mace Tyrelll actually did have a line of dialogue this week.

Still not as funny as Oberynn's "I have an ear for that, too."

I think farmers are going to start heavily inflating their livestock losses, once word gets out what the crown is paying. "Khaleesi, your dragons have killed a thousand of my goats, five hundred horses, and two hundred and fifty pandas." Good fake-out on that opening scene, though. First I thought it was a shot of Dorne, and we were about to see what was happening with Mycella. Then I thought the dragons were flying ahead of an invading army, and we were about to see Danaerys re-take one of the eastern cities.

It's fun to keep being surprised throughout the episode.

And, finally we get to Salladhor and Yara again. I guess when our calendar says "Mothers Day" it's "Talk Like a Pirate Day" in Westeros.

Edited May 13, 2014 by CletusMusashi

[JTMacc99]

I don't know what kind of expression Margery was supposed to have on her face while she listened to what she knew were outright lies.

 

I think the proper expression should be fear.

 

Because she has been hell bent on marrying into this family, and this trial is giving her a very scary look into what they are capable of doing.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

 

I think farmers are going to start heavily inflating their livestock losses, once word gets out that the crown is paying. "Khaleesi, your dragons have killed a thousand of my goats, five hundred horses, and two hundred and fifty pandas.

Mr. EB said something along the same lines about how Dany should expect to be getting a lot more reports from the locals about her dragons killing their vast flocks.

 

Just where is she getting the money to pay the first guy for his goats anyway? I know she's been freeing the slaves, but is she taking the money from those cities too? I guess since she's the queen now, she can just take things like money but what's going to happen a month or a year from now when the money she originally took is gone? Is she going to tax the remaining masters? How will the economy of these cities survive without the slaves? I don't expect that the masters will start doing the work of the slaves, so who is going to do that? The freed slaves? I'm not saying she is wrong for freeing the slaves, but I don't think she has considered the long term impact.

 

As we learned in this episode from the Braavosi banker, it's not enough to have an army. You need to be able to feed them too. In addiiton, if Dany freed the slaves, then who is now providing food for them? The masters are no longer their masters so they don't have to feed their former slaves. Are the slaves all going to become farmers? Servants who do the slave work but for wages?

Edited May 12, 2014 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Haldebrandt]

The testimony of Varys was perfectly consistent with his character.  Varys, a low-born, foreigner, eunuch, hasn't survived the reign of four kings in that viper nest by being foolishly noble.  As he said in this episode, he is no lord at all -- the title is ceremonial in light of his position.  He has no independent power base like a family, or some Varys-land somewhere filled with loyal Varys-people.  Heck he doesn't even have a name.  His power and position depend entirely on his usefulness to the Iron Throne.  So when the Iron Throne has decided that the dwarf must go, you better believe Varys will conspicuously grease the wheels of the effort.

 

I've never believed that Ned Stark was stupid.  But for Varys to do anything other than what he did... that would have been terminally stupid.

[KurlyGrl]

Yara and Theon.  Yes, everyone agrees that Yara should have had someone knock Theon out and escape with him.  But I also think she was too damned stunned by Theon’s state of being to even have had time to consider it.  I am sure she was all prepared for Theon to be all “thank you, sister, let’s go RIGHT NOW” and instead she saw a completely mind fucked man.  By the time that fact sunk in, it was too late as everyone had started fighting.  She knows now that Theon is a lost cause, and therefore he is “dead”.  But big ups to her for at least trying to rescue him when everyone else had written him off. 

 

Ramsey and Theon.  I mean, really, how does Ramsey think he can make Theon pretend to be Theon again.  Theon’s mind is completely gone.  So, what?  Now Theon is supposed to act like a normal guy who just happens to be held hostage and will now be used as a bargaining chip again.  Alfie’s acting tonight was superb. 

 

Shae and Tyrion. That !@&%$#  Shae!!!  I am so mad at her!!  That was the worst betrayal of them all.  And there were plenty that night.  The look on Tyrion’s face when she was spewing those lies broke my heart.  I know someone (Cersei??) put her up to it.  On the threat of death, I’m sure.  So, I know she had no choice.  But I felt the pain as acutely as Tyrion.  That was horrible to witness.  Especially as the entire audience was cracking up during her testimony.  Poor Tyrion.  His final speech is the stuff of legend. 

 

Tywin and Tyrion.  Tywin KNOWS Tyrion is not guilty.  He KNOWS this!  Well, maybe he doesn’t really KNOW, but he knows. Know what I mean.  I have to shake my head.  How fucked up is this entire mockery of a trial.  Like Tyrion said, he will get no justice here. 

 

Jamie and Tyrion.  Can I say how much I loved Jaime for sticking up for Tyrion.  The only one in the entire freaking kingdom to even try.  Look what he’s offering to give up to help his brother.  Everything.  Including his serpent slithering through the grass sister. 

 

And the Emmy goes to - - - -   Peter Dinklage!!

Edited May 12, 2014 by KurlyGrl

[Constantinople]

It's too bad cross examination wasn't permitted, except for that one useless question Tyrion asked Varys. If it were, and by someone who wasn't on trial, they'd cut witnesses to ribbons. Not that it would likely make much difference in the end result, but you'd at least emphasize what a show trial it is, and that the true killer hasn't been caught.

 

Jaime did tell him about the Wall deal, Tyrion didn't trust Tywin. The last we heard of Shae was Cersei pointing her out to Tywin who commanded she be brought to the Tower of the Hand. Either she got off the ship and was seized trying to come back or the redcloaks followed Bronn and got her the ship after he left. Or Bronn lied and just gave her over to Tywin, which I find pretty unlikely since he did force Jaime to help Tyrion.

I don't recall that Bronn forced Jaime to help Tyrion. I thought Bronn just told Jaime that if he wants to know how Tyrion is doing, he can go visit Tyrion himself.

 

So the strangler is a very rare poison possessed by few people, because most people who work with potions are maesters. I think we just got the answer to why Olenna needed help from Littlefinger.

Does the Strangler have any medicinal purpose? If not, why did Pycelle have it in his possession?

 

 

So Braavos is intriguing. On the one hand, they are all about numbers, says the loan committee chair.  On the other hand, they have faceless men and dancing sword masters.  That seems like a disconnect.

Where there's money, there's usual violence or the threat of violence, so it didn't seem like much of a disconnect to me.

 

I don't know what kind of expression Margery was supposed to have on her face while she listened to what she knew were outright lies.

I think it was something along the lines of "Joffrey might have been the sane one" or "Shit! They're eve n crazier than I thought".

 

So, I'm guessing the Iron Bank backed Stannis, after-all?  I guess Davos knows how to represent his king.  He'd make a hell of a talent agent.  Cool seeing Sallader again, even if it was during GOT's typical "gratuitous nudity" segment of the episode.

I guess they are "backing" him, but I'm thinking it was more along the lines of hedging their bets.

 

 

My biggest complaint this week is that I want to become the actor who plays Mace Tyrell.  All he he has to do to get paid is sit there and look like a muppet, except that muppets actually move around and talk and ride bicycles and stuff. How are they even going to figure out what his vote is?

Tyrion said that Mace will vote whichever way Tywin tells him to vote. Given that Mace is willing to fetch quill, paper and ink for Tywin, I think that's highly likely.

[DrSpaceman]

I felt horrible for Tyrion.  Its one thing to accuse him, find him guilty, etc.  Its another thing entirely to completely humiliate him in the process and turn everyone he cares about in his life against him.  Except his brother.  Will be rooting for him to come out on top on this, though I can't see that happening. 

 

Peter Dinklage deserves an Emmy for that scene.  He said everything that needed to be said to his father, the people of the kingdom, his sister and everyone involved.  I have always thought he would make the best king of any of them, yet he would be the last person his father would choose for the role.  Such a powerful speech and moving speech he gave.  If you think back to the question Tywin asked a few episode back about what makes a good king, he emboides most of them.  He is not a great fighter, but he has all the other qualities

[Puffaroo]

Tywin's endorsement of Tyrion's guilt has always struck me as weird--really, would Tywin be so eager to put Lannister dignity on trial?  Wouldn't he set up some poor sap, put HIM to trial, and punish Tyrion (if indeed he believes Tyron actually killed Joffrey) privately?  It seems off to me.  Tyrion certainly has a point when he says he's on trial for being a dwarf but at the end of season 1, Tywin seemed to recognize Tyrion's brains and surely someone as smart as he is would recognize that the real hero of Blackwater Bay is Tyrion.  I just don't get why he's all "hang him high" now.

 

 

Tywin accepted Jaime's offer so quickly, and was so prepared with his terms, that I can't help but think this whole thing has been a setup to accomplish just that end.

Edited May 12, 2014 by Puffaroo

[Constantinople]

Tyrion sure could have used Bran's YouTube clip powers last night.

[CeeBeeGee]

Puffaroo:

Tywin accepted Jaime's offer so quickly, and was so prepared with his terms, that I can't help but think this whole thing has been a setup to accomplish just that end.

I thought that too! At first I applauded Jaime for the offer, then I started to get suspicious that Tywin had forseen the whole thing and manipulated Jaime. I had to laugh at Tywin's "father legitimate children" or however he said it, hinting he knew all about the twincest.

[KurlyGrl]

 

Tywin accepted Jaime's offer so quickly, and was so prepared with his terms, that I can't help but think this whole thing has been a setup to accomplish just that end

 

Clearly everything Tywin does is well planned and thoroughly thought out, so considering a set-up of sorts is a possibility, and after all, that is what Tywin has always wanted from Jaime, but how could he have predicted Jaime would have made that offer?  I am sure Jaime didn’t even see that offer coming.

[Stardancer Supreme]

Dany is going to go broke if she keeps overcompensating supplicants for dead goats.

 

For one moment, I thought that the bones was of that shepherd boy with the flock!  That would have been horrifying.