S07.E03: Standoff

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

A CIA agent suspects a rescued soldier of a plot linked to al Qaeda.

Promo:

Clip:

C

[Ina123]

Have to wait and see but looks like they are going the crazy Carrie route. Ugh.

[preeya]

Extreme cry faces throughout.

[ruby24]

Wait, so is she or is she not actually manic? 

Also, that general just agreeing to fire airstrikes without hearing it from the president because she went to bed "fifteen minutes ago?" Ummm....that was ABSURD. It would have made more sense if the general was openly mutinous or something, but even he objected to the order not coming from her. But then he's just like, alright? 

Is Carrie going to get together with this FBI guy? I don't like him. Already feels like they wanted to find a character to semi-replace Quinn with, and he just so happens to understand all about her illness? How convenient. Also, he's really unattractive and he hit her in the last episode, so I really don't want that to happen.

Ugh, just seeing the previews for the next one and this stupid standoff with O'Keefe is STILL going on. Bored of it. I really, really don't care about him or what happens to him.

The show feels really different this season, it's a lot more like 24 or something, with the president being a full on regular character. How come she only has like, literally ONE advisor? 

Edited February 26, 2018 by ruby24

[Norma Desmond]

A big boring wtf episode... and I miss Quinn more than ever.

[scrb]

Of course this FBI guy is the new love interest to be -- they already talked about their pasts and she owes him big time for getting her arrest expunged.

Brett is a POS for endangering all those people, including women and children.

But those guys are going to have a shootout with the FBI?  That puts them in Branch Dravidian territory.  They're not going down as martyrs for some noble cause but as misguided kooks who died to try to protect an asshole fraudster.

Yeah Wellington seems to have his own agenda, unless he's being played by the sexy French chick.  But she would have come up when he's getting background checks for his security clearance.  The FBI would know about her and every other person in his life.

You'd think Saul would be too cynical and savvy to know better than to negotiate with O'Keefe.  Doesn't he know he conspired with Dar?  And what happened to Dar, did he go to prison at the end of last season?

[numbnut]

*Sigh* I'd rather see Carrie handling the standoff than skipping meds for another slow-mo train wreck. I literally screamed at the TV "Don't kiss him!"

Edited February 26, 2018 by numbnut

[Bannon]

I said I was done with this show, but I guess I'll hate-watch it to the bitter end, just to marvel at the depths it can reach. The Brett Stephens arc is boring, the general not insisting on hearing the order for the airstrike directly  from the President was really dumb, and would it have killed the writers to give us a final season without a get-the- medications- right subplot?

Edited February 26, 2018 by Bannon

[dwmarch]

I liked this episode. I thought there was some good tension in it, like when O'Keefe's girlfriend ran over the FBI encampment to warn them about the redneck reinforcements coming in.

Having said that, what happened to "We've got THE road blocked"? I know this show has its heritage in 24 but does every fictional FBI team have to be that shit at setting a perimeter?

I have mentioned before that Carrie's illness hits close to home for me as someone very dear to me has a similar condition to hers. So I shit a fair brick when she took that Adderall. I personally have ADD and I am prescribed Dexedrine (basically Adderall) and I would never ever want to see someone who is on the edge of manic taking those pills to stay awake!

[Kalamityjayne]

2 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I liked this episode. I thought there was some good tension in it, like when O'Keefe's girlfriend ran over the FBI encampment to warn them about the redneck reinforcements coming in.

Having said that, what happened to "We've got THE road blocked"? I know this show has its heritage in 24 but does every fictional FBI team have to be that shit at setting a perimeter?

I have mentioned before that Carrie's illness hits close to home for me as someone very dear to me has a similar condition to hers. So I shit a fair brick when she took that Adderall. I personally have ADD and I am prescribed Dexedrine (basically Adderall) and I would never ever want to see someone who is on the edge of manic taking those pills to stay awake!

There’s only one road going into the compound. They Show that in the establishing shot of the fbi vehicles going up the dirt road. The militia guys came in from fields. Maybe I only notice it because my kid is on the show and we basically lived at the compound for a few weeks and watched all this be filmed but you can tell the milita vehicles are coming up through grass not road. 

As far as real FBI- idk if they’d perimeter off fields and forest. It wasn’t supposed to escalate to really anything so even if they would irl, perhaps not at that stage where they’re just negotiating. 

 

FWIW- there really is only one dirt road that leads up to the compound irl. I think it’s one of the reasons why they chose it’s the location. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

OMG when Saul got out of the car and said, "Hello," followed by a dramatic pause, I was waiting for him to say, "My name is Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

Agent Harris from The Sopranos! I recognized him last week but I couldn't place him at the time.

I have mixed feelings about Carrie's bipolar condition becoming an issue again this season. On the one hand, I think that it's important to discuss mental health issues and having something like this on an award winning tv show is bound to create discussions about it.

I also appreciate that they're showing us the reality of being bipolar, which is that for some people, being diagnosed and taking a particular medication is not always the magic solution. Sometimes, like in this case, it stops working so you have to be vigilant about assessing yourself instead of being complacent and just assuming that it's working.

For those reasons, I think it's good that the show is drawing attention to a medical condition that is sometimes treated with shame and guilt. If you look at other medical conditions like cancer, patients are treated like warrior heroes. Mental health, on the other hand, is often treated very negatively. Showing it as something she lives with is a good thing.

My issue is that we've been through this before and I feel like repeating this "Carrie is manic" storyline is lazy.

Oh, Sharon. She should have left O'Keefe back when they were in that other tiny town.

But was this all part of their plan? Did he tell Sharon to sneak out and "warn" the FBI about the incoming reinforcements to escalate things (and let her finally get the hell out of dodge like she's clearly wanted to do for ages)? It seemed highly coincidental that all of the militia guys showed up right after she told them. I guess it's also possible that she overheard them talking about it and then she decided it was time to get the fuck out before the FBI killed everyone in the compound. When O'Keefe walked back into the house, he didn't look triumphant, smug, or any of the other things we've seen from him before so was he not expecting the camo guys to take Saul hostage? He certainly didn't tell them to let Saul go.

Wellington is a little weasel. I knew he was up to something as soon as he left. At first I was relieved that the general was following protocol and insisted that he needed to hear authorization directly from Keane, but then he just gave in after Wellington's "weeeeeeell, she might change her mind in the morning so let me just give you the code right now - just in case!"

[Joimiaroxeu]

Quote

Wait, so is she or is she not actually manic? 

That's sort of what I'm wondering too. In fact, I've started to think that maybe her sister has been messing with her meds in order to get control over her. It would make the sister's life a lot easier if Carrie were stashed away and pretty much incapacitated indefinitely.

Quote

Wellington's "weeeeeeell, she might change her mind in the morning so let me just give you the code right now - just in case!"

The only thing missing from his lie was, "You know how women are, amirite?" Looks like Keane doesn't have anybody she can trust, not that I feel sorry for her.

[attica]

8 hours ago, dwmarch said:

I know this show has its heritage in 24 but does every fictional FBI team have to be that shit at setting a perimeter?

This! "We've got snipers in the trees (who failed to see your reinforcements coming, or failed to warn us if they did...)!!!!!"

I too am weary of going back to the Manic Carrie storyline well again, but if I'm honest, I'll confess to feeling really bad for her this time. Her "I'm sick and going to be sick for a while" bit made me sad. Points to the show, on the other hand, for not doing exposition on her popping Adderall. They trusted the audience to both know what it is, and what it means for C.

[Tony]

Once again Saul is wrong and screws things up. I literally can't think of a single thing he did right in the history of this show. He should have been kept locked up where he can't mess anything up.

[atlantaloves]

ahhhhh come on Mr. Tony, I love Uncle Saul. But this episode with the manic Carrie with her ugly cry face and over acting bored the crap out of me. 

[slowpoked]

I thought that Saul would again be held hostage for the duration of the season like it was in Season 4. Thank God that didn't take long. I thought this guy was some seasoned CIA/security officer. He always gets himself in trouble. 

I'm getting really confused about the Bret O Keefe storyline, to the point that I am getting uninterested. Isn't he considered a fugitive? Isn't there a warrant out for his arrest? Then why not just take him? The people who are protecting already committed a crime, don't they? Why all this negotiation? And for those gun-toting crazies, why not give him his own weapon of defense? 

So is Wellington going to be the big, bad guy, this season?

12 hours ago, scrb said:

And what happened to Dar, did he go to prison at the end of last season?

Yes, he went to prison at the end of last season for his participation of the plot to assassinate the Prez. Saul visited him. 

6 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I also appreciate that they're showing us the reality of being bipolar, which is that for some people, being diagnosed and taking a particular medication is not always the magic solution. Sometimes, like in this case, it stops working so you have to be vigilant about assessing yourself instead of being complacent and just assuming that it's working.

Yes, if anything, I know that part of Carrie's storyline has been tiresome to some, but I'm glad the writers didn't magically "heal" the disease in a course of some seasons, they're showing that it's a lifelong struggle, there are good days, there are bad days, and the bad days even happen to the best of those who try to comply with every single medication they were required to do. There's still a lot of stigma with this disease, and the easy way out would have been for the writers to conveniently forget Carrie struggled with this during the earlier seasons, and make her completely functioning without it. 

[Quark]

Decent episode and the promo for the next one looks good.

Couple things I found odd though, one is what has been discussed above with the FBI setting up the perimeter.

The other was Carrie's FBI guy just turning up at her house when she went to great lengths in the premiere to protect both of their identities :P.

I loved how nonchalant Saul was about talking to O'Keefe with all those guns around. This guy has been kidnapped by Al Quaeda. This is nothing to Saul.

[Bannon]

9 hours ago, Kalamityjayne said:

There’s only one road going into the compound. They Show that in the establishing shot of the fbi vehicles going up the dirt road. The militia guys came in from fields. Maybe I only notice it because my kid is on the show and we basically lived at the compound for a few weeks and watched all this be filmed but you can tell the milita vehicles are coming up through grass not road. 

As far as real FBI- idk if they’d perimeter off fields and forest. It wasn’t supposed to escalate to really anything so even if they would irl, perhaps not at that stage where they’re just negotiating. 

 

FWIW- there really is only one dirt road that leads up to the compound irl. I think it’s one of the reasons why they chose it’s the location. 

No, the FBI does not fail to set up a perimeter, despite having "snipers in the trees" , based upon on an assumption that they are at a stage where they are "just negotiating". You set up the perimeter to begin with, in order to control the negotiating environment.

 

There's no way around this. The writers are just lazily phoning in this story. It irritates the hell out of me.

1 hour ago, slowpoked said:

I thought that Saul would again be held hostage for the duration of the season like it was in Season 4. Thank God that didn't take long. I thought this guy was some seasoned CIA/security officer. He always gets himself in trouble. 

I'm getting really confused about the Bret O Keefe storyline, to the point that I am getting uninterested. Isn't he considered a fugitive? Isn't there a warrant out for his arrest? Then why not just take him? The people who are protecting already committed a crime, don't they? Why all this negotiation? And for those gun-toting crazies, why not give him his own weapon of defense? 

So is Wellington going to be the big, bad guy, this season?

Yes, he went to prison at the end of last season for his participation of the plot to assassinate the Prez. Saul visited him. 

Yes, if anything, I know that part of Carrie's storyline has been tiresome to some, but I'm glad the writers didn't magically "heal" the disease in a course of some seasons, they're showing that it's a lifelong struggle, there are good days, there are bad days, and the bad days even happen to the best of those who try to comply with every single medication they were required to do. There's still a lot of stigma with this disease, and the easy way out would have been for the writers to conveniently forget Carrie struggled with this during the earlier seasons, and make her completely functioning without it. 

I have no issue with a bipolar character, or with showing how it affects the character's life. I just think, 7 seven seasons in, that they have relied on this element too much to supply dramatic tension. Just like the constant battle to maintain custody of Frannie, but at least that element didn't arise until after Brody was dead.

[mrspidey]

1 hour ago, Bannon said:

I have no issue with a bipolar character, or with showing how it affects the character's life. I just think, 7 seven seasons in, that they have relied on this element too much to supply dramatic tension. 

I don't see how you could show her condition affecting her life and NOT have it factor into the drama.

[Bannon]

7 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

I don't see how you could show her condition affecting her life and NOT have it factor into the drama.

There are people who are bipolar who have managed their treatment without the frequency of crisis that Carrie has been portrayed as having. People with extremely high stress jobs. I'm not saying that this should not have been an element to the character. I'm saying that it has become a crutch for the writers to use up screen time.

[slowpoked]

11 minutes ago, mrspidey said:

I don't see how you could show her condition affecting her life and NOT have it factor into the drama.

I agree. I actually liked last night's storyline regarding Carrie's condition. I think for the first time, at least that I remember (and I watched all of Homeland's seasons), was that last night was the first time Carrie was honest to someone about her condition. She didn't try to sugarcoat it, or dismiss it to the FBI guy. Usually, it's been the other way around - other people have to convince Carrie to get help or at least confront the issue. Maybe the stakes are higher now (custody of Frankie), but it was actually good to see Carrie show some vulnerability, to someone she barely knows. And I can understand that sigh of relief and realization at the end that while she royally fucked up when breaking into the house, she won't get the worst of it. 

[Bannon]

14 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I agree. I actually liked last night's storyline regarding Carrie's condition. I think for the first time, at least that I remember (and I watched all of Homeland's seasons), was that last night was the first time Carrie was honest to someone about her condition. She didn't try to sugarcoat it, or dismiss it to the FBI guy. Usually, it's been the other way around - other people have to convince Carrie to get help or at least confront the issue. Maybe the stakes are higher now (custody of Frankie), but it was actually good to see Carrie show some vulnerability, to someone she barely knows. And I can understand that sigh of relief and realization at the end that while she royally fucked up when breaking into the house, she won't get the worst of it. 

Oh, the portrayal of the condition last night was a lot better than some other instances in the show. The switch the meds bit in Pakistan back in season, what, 4 (?) was the worst, and this was much better. I'm just tired of it as a source of dramatic tension, which likely stems in part from my overall disappointment in where this show is going in the last season. I had hoped that it could return to the superior writing that characterized season 1, part of season2, and season 5, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen. This is the most uneven show I've likely ever watched over many seasons, although The Wire really ran out of gas for me the last couple years. This show has been a rollercoaster in terms of quality.

[EtheltoTillie]

I don't understand how Carrie can leave her kid behind all the time to do her missions and not risk running afoul of the child protective services types again.  The sister does not have her back in taking care of the child while Carrie plays secret agent.  Plus, Frannie was really freaked out by last season's events, e.g., foster care and attack on the apartment.

[slowpoked]

30 minutes ago, Bannon said:

Oh, the portrayal of the condition last night was a lot better than some other instances in the show. The switch the meds bit in Pakistan back in season, what, 4 (?) was the worst, and this was much better. I'm just tired of it as a source of dramatic tension, which likely stems in part from my overall disappointment in where this show is going in the last season. I had hoped that it could return to the superior writing that characterized season 1, part of season2, and season 5, but it doesn't look like it is going to happen. This is the most uneven show I've likely ever watched over many seasons, although The Wire really ran out of gas for me the last couple years. This show has been a rollercoaster in terms of quality.

I agree. The switch-the-meds-plot-point in S4 was a shit show. That part ruined what I thought was overall a decent season.

[Bannon]

5 minutes ago, GussieK said:

I don't understand how Carrie can leave her kid behind all the time to do her missions and not risk running afoul of the child protective services types again.  The sister does not have her back in taking care of the child while Carrie plays secret agent.  Plus, Frannie was really freaked out by last season's events, e.g., foster care and attack on the apartment.

I think it was a writing error to have her and Brody have a child.

[EtheltoTillie]

Just now, Bannon said:

I think it was a writing error to have her and Brody have a child.

Yes, that's what I've been thinking, and now they're stuck with it. 

[Bannon]

2 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

I agree. The switch-the-meds-plot-point in S4 was a shit show. That part ruined what I thought was overall a decent season.

It's the kind of amateur writing screwup that has always driven me nuts about this show.

[Kalamityjayne]

I’m not saying they aren’t phoning it in, I was just explaining how they tried to establish shot.  It’s a huge property (farm) which is then surrounded by woods, I’m not sure at what point the FBI would issue the manpower to secure all that land.  

Also, Saul makes mention of it- it is a compound situation. He says something  to the effect that “its a compound type deal and we still aren’t sure who all lives here” so I guess it is possible those vehicles came up from the other homes/dwellings on the compound. So even if they did have a tighter perimeter rather than just property boundaries and access roads, those properties would still be within the boundary.  Based on the night shot which shows more of an organized operation (when they discussed hotels and shit) than the earlier ones where it was Saul on the road and picnic table with a few Fbi vehicles behind him, maybe they were still getting place? Idk.

Edited February 26, 2018 by Kalamityjayne

[pfk505]

I liked the manic Carrie stuff. I have a friend with the same condition only his is even worse and he described it exactly the same way Carrie did, "nightmares that don't end when you wake up." His manic episodes last anywhere from weeks to months in duration and are totally debilitating, he doesn't work and is totally reliant on family for support. I agree that the way her condition has been written has had its ups and downs, and it feels most realistic now. With that said, they are going back to that well yet again, and I think it has a lot to do with the weakness of the rest of the material.

10 hours ago, Tony said:

Once again Saul is wrong and screws things up. I literally can't think of a single thing he did right in the history of this show. He should have been kept locked up where he can't mess anything up.

You are absolutely right. Saul hasn't seemed competent since season 1 or 2. I haven't been able to take the character seriously after he was utterly and totally compromised and humiliated by the Russians.

Edited February 27, 2018 by pfk505

[dwmarch]

13 hours ago, slowpoked said:

I'm getting really confused about the Bret O Keefe storyline, to the point that I am getting uninterested. Isn't he considered a fugitive? Isn't there a warrant out for his arrest? Then why not just take him? The people who are protecting already committed a crime, don't they? Why all this negotiation? And for those gun-toting crazies, why not give him his own weapon of defense?

This is where I think the show's reach exceeds its grasp. The over-arching storyline has been that since President Keane survived the attempt on her life, she's been overreacting by throwing everyone in jail and trampling all over civil rights. General McClendon all of a sudden up and dies and we've got the Podunk PD sheltering O'Keefe because they're not fans of the administration either. They're trying to tell us that the country is on the verge of civil war but thus far they haven't really shown us. In Washington DC, people bitch at each other around the dinner table. In Podunk, they ride around in trucks showing off their rifles and "Don't Tread On Me" flags. This civil war is indeed downright civil so far.

As for why they didn't just take him, all those events plus some mass murder of civilians (including women and children) would be a bridge too far. Keane is trying to rehabilitate her reputation but she can't do that if she comes down like a ton of bricks on a guy whose crime is basically talking shit about her.

 

On 25/02/2018 at 8:31 PM, ruby24 said:

Also, that general just agreeing to fire airstrikes without hearing it from the president because she went to bed "fifteen minutes ago?" Ummm....that was ABSURD. It would have made more sense if the general was openly mutinous or something, but even he objected to the order not coming from her. But then he's just like, alright?

The General knew what was up, that was why he had the Chief of Staff repeat himself slowly and explicitly. The thing that doesn't make sense to me is either of these individuals thinking that a successful airstrike that distracts from the President's domestic worries will justify itself in retrospect. Keane is still going to be super pissed when she finds out about it regardless of whether or not it changes the headlines.

[brilliantbreakfast]

Keane was clearly intended to be Hillary Clinton and then the writers had to shift gears after the 2016 election.  Her character arc makes no sense.

[preeya]

22 minutes ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Keane was clearly intended to be Hillary Clinton and then the writers had to shift gears after the 2016 election.  Her character arc makes no sense.

My thoughts, exactly.

[Milburn Stone]

I thought this episode did the best job of any episode in the show's history of making me relate to Carrie's disease. Of course I always "got it," understood it as a plot device, had a mild degree of empathy for her, etc. But now I really could begin to feel what it must feel like. Her line, "It's like a nightmare that doesn't end when you wake up" (or however she put it) really hit home for me. And the reliance on drugs you can't rely on, the knowledge that nothing might work and yet the desperate need to self-medicate in the hope that something will work, the utter aloneness. Terrifying. In some ways I think the show is the best it has ever been.

Can someone refresh me on who the French chick is and how she fits in? I mean, I know she's a prime suspect in the general's poisoning, and the parking ticket puts her at the scene of the crime, but why?

I think of FBI-Boyfriend as Tall Rahm Emanuel.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

27 minutes ago, Milburn Stone said:

Can someone refresh me on who the French chick is and how she fits in? I mean, I know she's a prime suspect in the general's poisoning, and the parking ticket puts her at the scene of the crime, but why?

Because she's the one who Carrie saw in Wellington's house thanks to the spy cameras. She has been having an affair with Wellington. From this week's episode:

Dante: Simone Martin. Born outside Paris. Graduated from the London School of Economics. Met David Wellington in Budapest four years ago. They've been involved on and off ever since. She works for an NGO called the International Democracy Foundation....A vehicle registered to this woman was issued a parking ticket on March 30th in Hazelton, West Virginia. That's three miles from the prison where General McClendon was sentenced to spend the rest of his life. It's also the day before he died.

[scrb]

Wellington should be fired on the spot as soon as Keane finds out.  The general too.

But this is Homeland so Wellington will be kept around all season probably.

[Bannon]

1 hour ago, Milburn Stone said:

I thought this episode did the best job of any episode in the show's history of making me relate to Carrie's disease. Of course I always "got it," understood it as a plot device, had a mild degree of empathy for her, etc. But now I really could begin to feel what it must feel like. Her line, "It's like a nightmare that doesn't end when you wake up" (or however she put it) really hit home for me. And the reliance on drugs you can't rely on, the knowledge that nothing might work and yet the desperate need to self-medicate in the hope that something will work, the utter aloneness. Terrifying. In some ways I think the show is the best it has ever been.

Can someone refresh me on who the French chick is and how she fits in? I mean, I know she's a prime suspect in the general's poisoning, and the parking ticket puts her at the scene of the crime, but why?

I think of FBI-Boyfriend as Tall Rahm Emanuel.

If they had employed this scene several seasons ago, it would have been a vast improvement.

[slowpoked]

8 hours ago, dwmarch said:

but she can't do that if she comes down like a ton of bricks on a guy whose crime is basically talking shit about her.

Is that really his only crime? I thought he was found out to be part of the assassination plot of Keane. Wasn't he exposed to be running the troll farm and connected to Dar and McClendon?

[Bannon]

17 minutes ago, slowpoked said:

Is that really his only crime? I thought he was found out to be part of the assassination plot of Keane. Wasn't he exposed to be running the troll farm and connected to Dar and McClendon?

Yes, Stephens was co-conspirator for the assasination attempt, kidnapping (remember Max being imprisoned?) , and a bunch of other crimes. 

[brilliantbreakfast]

4 hours ago, Milburn Stone said:

I think of FBI-Boyfriend as Tall Rahm Emanuel.

You're right!  THAT'S who he reminded me of.  I kept thinking "Not-As-Cute-Hank-Azaria", but I think  you've got it right.

[roughing it]

7 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Keane was clearly intended to be Hillary Clinton and then the writers had to shift gears after the 2016 election.  Her character arc makes no sense.

They could have shifted gears to make Keane the female version of Trump, but then the outrage/arc of O'Keefe doesn't work because they would be somewhat sympatico.  I agree, her character is all over the place.  Is she Democrat, Republican, Independent??  Does that even matter?  Keane doesn't seem qualified for the presidency and has a bit of a "deer in the headlights" look about her.

[TVbitch]

Jesus God. Yet ANOTHER hot guy who will not be able to resist crazy Carrie. I have yet to understand the appeal. ... ... But you sir, are no Quinn! 

[Norma Desmond]

9 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Keane was clearly intended to be Hillary Clinton and then the writers had to shift gears after the 2016 election.  Her character arc makes no sense.

So true. It's a mess.

[Ottis]

I hate any plot about Carrie and her kid. 

After that, I hate plots about her illness being out of control. 

After that, I hate domestic doofuses  taking up screen time. 

That left the deep Russian spy in the White House I guess, Wellington. 

[Pallas]

15 hours ago, brilliantbreakfast said:

Keane was clearly intended to be Hillary Clinton and then the writers had to shift gears after the 2016 election.  Her character arc makes no sense.

If the 2016 election had turned out differently, how would that have affected the core of last year's and this year's plot?  Keane was always going to win, surely, and as President-Elect, work covertly with Carrie and eventually Saul. She would refuse to play ball with Adal and the Adal-cabal. There would be attempts to discredit her, followed by an attempt on her life, and her character would undergo a transformation, isolating her and setting her against the intelligence community in a far more aggressive way.

As I see it, she was always positioned to be the sympathetic object of Carrie's efforts last year, then become Carrie's antagonist this season.What would have changed?

[Kalamityjayne]

23 hours ago, dwmarch said:

This is where I think the show's reach exceeds its grasp. The over-arching storyline has been that since President Keane survived the attempt on her life, she's been overreacting by throwing everyone in jail and trampling all over civil rights. General McClendon all of a sudden up and dies and we've got the Podunk PD sheltering O'Keefe because they're not fans of the administration either. They're trying to tell us that the country is on the verge of civil war but thus far they haven't really shown us. In Washington DC, people bitch at each other around the dinner table. In Podunk, they ride around in trucks showing off their rifles and "Don't Tread On Me" flags. This civil war is indeed downright civil so far.

As for why they didn't just take him, all those events plus some mass murder of civilians (including women and children) would be a bridge too far. Keane is trying to rehabilitate her reputation but she can't do that if she comes down like a ton of bricks on a guy whose crime is basically talking shit about her.

 

The General knew what was up, that was why he had the Chief of Staff repeat himself slowly and explicitly. The thing that doesn't make sense to me is either of these individuals thinking that a successful airstrike that distracts from the President's domestic worries will justify itself in retrospect. Keane is still going to be super pissed when she finds out about it regardless of whether or not it changes the headlines.

It certainly is civil. I mean one fringe compound group does not a civil war make. Also, people angrily protest often- though it seems much more often lately. Those two things don’t really scream civil war. Though, is it just crazy Okeefe claiming that?  He’s supposed to be Alex Jones who says the same things to foment unrest. 

 

We did have an inside coup to off the president elect. That’s pretty good, civil warish. 

 

@slowpoked did you see him handle that gun? He ended up  flat on his back with a head wound  from the recoil like a big dork. Mr Second Ammendment is a fraud. 

[slowpoked]

11 hours ago, Kalamityjayne said:

@slowpoked did you see him handle that gun? He ended up  flat on his back with a head wound  from the recoil like a big dork. Mr Second Ammendment is a fraud. 

Yes, I did. But it would have been highly ironic if his protectors handed him his own gun so he can also have his own "protection". 

[Kalamityjayne]

9 hours ago, slowpoked said:

Yes, I did. But it would have been highly ironic if his protectors handed him his own gun so he can also have his own "protection". 

It would be fun to watch. The standoff isn’t over and I didn’t watch him film all his scenes so here’s to hoping he grabs a gun. 

[WaltersHair]

On 2/26/2018 at 12:54 AM, dwmarch said:

I know this show has its heritage in 24 but does every fictional FBI team have to be that shit at setting a perimeter?

Thank you. I was like what? Did they come up through the earth to see their shadows like groundhogs?

I thought to myself during the first episode that guy was Agent Bedroom Eyes and Carrie is gonna be toast. It seems to be headed that way, but OH wouldn't it be great if the writers surprised us with something platonic?

I watched Waco burn to the ground in real time back in the day. Once in a lifetime is enough for me. I hope they don't go this route even if it is fiction.

This season is a mixed bag so far. I'm really liking the cloak and dagger elements, but the sloppiness with the FBI and oopsie on the airstrike are grating.

[Lady Iris]

I can’t believe Wellington is the same guy who played the King in Vikings. 

Carrie broke my heart in the scene where they forced her hand onto the finger print thingy. But then I got mad because she keeps putting herself into these situations that could jeopardize her custody of Franny. 

[gallimaufry]

Mixed feelings about this season so far.  I'm kind of in awe that the threats in the show are now almost entirely domestic and it completely works.  I do like the O'Keefe plot although it feels like it's moving quite slowly.  I like Carrie's illness resurfacing -- it's been years since it's been a major part of the drama and in such a paranoid world, it makes a lot of sense.

My problem is that so much seems to route in characters behaving stupidly.  Carrie got herself in hot water last week by being careless and while this turned out to be a character point, we basically had the same character point this week that she put herself in danger and nearly lost everything.  I didn't need it twice.

Moreover, the stuff with Wellington and the General is utterly ridiculous.  It's the sort of twist you can get away with on 24 because of the extreme tension of the day and you know it'll be addressed within an hour or two (but even then, they literally had a whole story arc about the Chief of Staff acting to force the president's hand to launch a strike).  Keane has the potential to be an interesting president but at the moment the show is struggling with the credibility gap of wanting to tell a Trump story with a superficially similar but actually quite different president.  I thought at the end of last season they'd managed to pull off the impossible and re-cast her as a paranoid authoritarian but it's hard to stick the landing.