S03.E12: Trent?!

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

Just as Rebecca tries to be more realistic and practical, Trent throws a wrench into her plans. At the same time Josh and Valencia reckon with their shared history.

Promo:

[Spartan Girl]

Double standards be damned, Trent is a creep. At least Rebecca never literally FORCED someone to date her. Hope we've seen the last of him.

"A Buttload of Cats" complete with puppets was hilarious.

Glad Mona figured out Nathaniel's cheating and called him out on it, but instead of agreeing to start fresh, she should have just told him that she wasn't interested in being his consolation prize and walked off.

Valencia and Josh's Royal dance was awesome! Maybe it's because I was so repulsed by Trent, but this was the first time I found Josh endearing.

[Rinaldo]

40 minutes ago, Spartan Girl said:

At least Rebecca never literally FORCED someone to date her.

But it must be admitted: "For a blackmailer, he's decent on consent."

Seeing "I'm Just a Boy in Love" made me about the happiest I've been all week. Blam! I said, "Blam!"

[HunterHunted]

Highlights:

• Cat puppets
• A Boy in Love
• That everyone in the office seemed to be creeped out by Trent
• That Mona figured out about Nathaniel and Rebecca and called Nathaniel out about it
• Mona's therapist is Mr. Dr. Akopian
• White Josh and Dog Josh being judge-y
• The continuation of the White Josh and Nathaniel friendship
• The Royal

Lows:

• Rebecca lying to Paula
• Did we know that Rebecca was Trent's first? You'd think she would be a little bit sympathetic
• Valencia being a cow to that poor girl who was a client. It's one thing to want classier jobs; it's another to be unprofessional, condescending, and an obvious snob.
• Trent in general; I like the concept of Trent as a mirror to Rebecca about the wrongness of her behavior, but Trent always makes me deeply uncomfortable, as uncomfortable as Rebecca's worst actions.
• I feel like White Josh would be one of those dog parents who would travel with a collapsible dog bowl

Edited February 10, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Irlandesa]

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

White Josh and Dog Josh being judge-y

I loved that they continued his confusion over all of his friends being into Rebecca.  I believe he said something similar back when it was Rebecca bouncing between Greg and Josh.

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Did we know that Rebecca was Trent's first?

Yes.  He mentioned it back when they had sex.

1 hour ago, HunterHunted said:

Rebecca lying to Paula

And putting a hit out on Mona--however briefly.  Which is why I'm so meh about the evil Trent blackmailing Rebecca. 

Another negative was the stupid misunderstandings between lovers trope where Nathaniel sees Rebecca with Trent so he decides to make things right with Mona which he tells Rebecca before she can tell him who Trent really is.  It's annoying when I want a couple together. It's even worse when I don't.

[kit.kat343]

It's fine for West Covina to not be the right fit for Valencia.  It's not fine for her to stay there and be bitter and miserable about it.  As Hannah once said on Girls, Valencia is pretty enough to have a "pretty person job" (hostessing/waitressing/bartending at a very high end restaurant/club) which would give her enough money to move to a city she wants to live in.  She needs to get out before she becomes a miserable, bitter person.

[sacrebleu]

For my money, the best thing about this episode was Paula's reaction to Trent asking a follow up question to her period remark. Give her an Emmy.

 

Also the Boy in Love. (Reprise) 

[Eeksquire]

I have to say, I felt like this episode was finally a return to form for the show - after all of the darkness of Rebecca's suicide and diagnosis, I feel like they've come back around to a little more of the wacky hijinks that make this feel more like a comedy.  I cracked up at Trent's storage unit ("That's a LOT of underwear!") and at Paula's reluctance to get back involved with Rebecca's shenanigans.  At the same time, they are still showing Rebecca's character growth - she realized that she was doing something wrong when she lied to Paula, but did it anyway and now feels bad about it, which is a change from the past when she could always justify her behavior.

The one thing that I miss is that I feel like there has been a lot less in the way of music this season - I liked the Trent focused theme song, but to me, it doesn't really 'count' since it's just a thin rewrite of something we've seen before.  I had hoped that, at the end of this episode, we'd see at least a re-reprise of "You Stupid Bitch" (or "Rebecca's Reprise" from the wedding) and the music cues almost seemed like they were headed there and the episode was over.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Of all the things that Rebecca found in Trent's creepy storage unit, the only thing she took was her missing socks? Even if she didn't want or need all the underwear, I would have taken it just so he didn't have it anymore! I did have to laugh at Paula and Rebecca judging Trent's choice of ramen flavor.

While I totally appreciate Trent being the male version of Rebecca, for all the things that she did, she never FORCED Josh, Greg, Nathaniel or anyone else to be with her. I guess some people might prefer Trent's upfront and honest approach to Rebecca's sneaky manipulations and scheming to insinuate herself into Josh's life during S1, but at least she still allowed him free will.

I'm not sure what's behind Valencia's snotty attitude. I don't remember her having this kind of disdain for West Covina back in S1 so is it mainly due to wanting bigger and better clients in LA? The thing about LA is that geographically, it's pretty large and a lot of people don't live in the actual city of Los Angeles, so people aren't snobs about it the way people in, say, Manhattan, can be about "you don't REALLY live in _______." As long as Valencia keeps running her business successfully by keeping her clients happy and being able to get some good photos from each event, it's really not a stretch to think that she could land some celebrity clients in the greater Los Angeles area. All it would take is getting a recommendation from one client to a celebrity (and again, since not everyone actually lives in LA, it's totally possible that someone at one of her parties in West Covina could be a friend or relative of a celebrity who wants to have a party in LA).

As Beth pointed out, the important thing is to make sure the client is happy. It doesn't matter how great your party is if the client isn't happy. An unhappy client will not recommend you to someone else.

If Valencia is truly unhappy living in West Covina, then she should leave. I don't mean that in a mean/harsh/snotty way, but there's no reason for her to stay there if she's miserable. If she moves to LA, it's really not THAT far away so she can always come home to visit her family and friends. But it's not like she has a mortgage or kids in a good school district tying her down.

Loved that Valencia and Josh got a chance to dance together! I feel like we haven't really seen Valencia dance much and her more recent dancing was not nearly to that level of choreography. I think the last number she did that showcased her dancing at all was Good at Yoga back in S1.

[quangtran]

I'd say the Triceratops Ballet with Josh certainly counts as a dancing showcase.

23 minutes ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

I guess some people might prefer Trent's upfront and honest approach to Rebecca's sneaky manipulations and scheming to insinuate herself into Josh's life

My take on the episode is that while Rebecca isn't as bad as Trent, she was still bad to Josh and she's certainly still treats her supposed best friend terribly.

_____________

Nathaniel (to Rebecca): I know you really well and you're a good person.

(instrumental of "Stupid Bitch" plays in the background.)

[doesntworkonwood]

I agree with @Eeksquire that this episode was back to form. There's been something off about the past few episodes, but I found this one to be a lot more fun and it reminded me of why I watch this show in the first place. 

I get why people don't like Trent, he is creepy, but he's also a good foil/plot device. He's obviously got his issues, but the show doesn't really owe it to him as a character to explore it beyond a surface level because he's literally just a plot device. That's why he adds a bit more interest and fun to me as a viewer. 

I was glad to see Rebecca and Paula having a storyline together. I feel like the show, whilst trying to give Paula separate storylines, has avoided putting the two together which is a shame. That said, I really don't know why Rebecca lied to her in the first place? It didn't really make sense to me. 

The Nathaniel story is a bit stupid to me, and it doesn't make either him or Mona look good. Him because he cheated on her for six months, and her because she's still with him. 

[DianeDobbler]

The show has become incredibly dumbed down, and also the trope with Nathaniel and Rebecca? I am holding out hope he is not her true love end game, but it's fading. This was a logical episode to do without him, but GOD FORBID. The idea continues to feel like a huge betrayal. The show plays as if it's imitating itself, and things that would just be tossed off in the past are belabored now (such as the extended exposition of what happened to Trent after the wedding). It feels paint by numbers and mechanical - oh right, we do this type of commentary in the middle of this type of plot.

I do not like Rebecca at the moment. I don't see how she's healthier or evolved. Maybe I would if they'd bothered to show how her bi polar condition was treated, but CEG decided to skip that. 

A subtext with the show is what happened with Josh. CEG seems bent on having him be oh so obviously the OMG SO wrong guy for Rebecca, I guess to make the point that she's so much better now, and him being as silly as he is just points up how sick she was before. But that notwithstanding, she lied her ass off to him, interfered in his relationship, and lastly, but not least, acted like a maniac in the run up to the wedding. If she'd confronted that, I'd focus more on Josh's failure to face up to Rebecca instead of just running out on her. But, you know, she ran out on Greg. Josh didn't do anything to her she hasn't done to others, but I feel as if the show is papering over everything she did to him, including stalk him, terrorize him, and, most of all, cause him to lose his job so he now has all these childish jobs. She's never apologized - in fact, he came and thanked her.  I recently read an article calling the show out on this. Imagine if a man did to Rebecca what she did to Josh, including causing her to lose HER job, and terrorizing her via stalking, and then she came to the guy and thanked him, even though nothing was fixed. She was still out of the job she lost, etc. There's the vibe here that it's ok because it's just stupid Josh.

I don't see wacky hijinks as the real show. I see the real show as HAVING this darker undercurrent. Since CEG isn't interested in her therapy, CEG has lost the anchor that, yes, Rebecca's anxiety, depression and obsession used to provide. So now she's just a douchebag. Did she go to the dark web because she was still sick with borderline disorder? Wouldn't her therapist be able to mediate if she confessed? Or was she just being willful and obsessed, but not sick? Her lying to Paula that Trent also had stuff on Paula was also obnoxious. It's not funny, IMO, it's entitled, it's obnoxious, and I still can't believe the Nathaniel shit. I'm absolutely stunned. I thought they needed a guy to play against her therapy, and Greg is gone, and obviously it can't be Josh. But this is not what CEG is doing. It's playing everything as an obstacle and failure to communicate thwarting the meant-to-be love match of Nathaniel and Rebecca. And whoever said it upthread, that this stuff is annoying enough when you want the couple together - it's doubly so when you don't.

P.S. - another sign of a decline in quality is the unexplained one-note writing for characters that previously were not written as cliche. Valencia now has one note - and furthermore, the two cat store women had more relationship development than Valencia and Beth initially had. Josh has one note (he's dumb). It's lazy.

The cat song was ok, but I was kind of pissed at the line about "in her lonely walk up apartment." Maybe the walk up part. I know a million people who live in walk-ups. It's probably me being oversensitive. I don't even live in a walk up, so it's not about me. But it's just the automatic idea that, well, a woman living alone in a walk-up - boy that is so sad. Screw that, show.

Edited February 10, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[tennisgurl]

The cat puppet song just killed me, it was this show nailing the song in a way it hasn't the last few weeks. I do wonder why it is that cats are so attached to lonely single women. As the cats say, if you want someone to pay attention to you, get a dog. Cats a better if you want a pet who can be more independent. In general I mean, I know plenty of very social cats and independent dogs, but still. Of course, Rebecca should get neither, because I cant imagine her being a very good pet owner. 

It was nice to see Valencia and Josh get a plot, and it was cute seeing them get to a better place. I do wonder why, if Valencia hates West Covina, she hasn't left? I do love when they both get to dance though! 

I dont mind seeing Trent again, especially if this is his ending. He works as a lens to Rebecca, especially when she is getting closer to falling into bad behavior, like lying Paula to get her to join her plan/montage. Trent is usually more...extreme than Rebecca, but you can easily see how Rebecca could fall down his creepier path if she doesn't get help and stop making bad, selfish choices. Of course, as far as we know, Trent never burned down a persons house or put a hit on someone in the dark web...

I love the running gag of White Josh being completely baffled as to why all his friends fall in love with Rebecca. 

"Even his choice of Ramen is unsettling" 

[dubbel zout]

19 hours ago, Spartan Girl said:

Glad Mona figured out Nathaniel's cheating and called him out on it, but instead of agreeing to start fresh, she should have just told him that she wasn't interested in being his consolation prize and walked off.

That really disappointed me, too. 

18 hours ago, Rinaldo said:

Seeing "I'm Just a Boy in Love" made me about the happiest I've been all week.

I know! What a genius idea!

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Rebecca lying to Paula

I really, really hated that. Though it was very Rebecca-like and shows she still has a long way to go.

17 hours ago, HunterHunted said:

Valencia being a cow to that poor girl who was a client. It's one thing to want classier jobs; it's another to be unprofessional, condescending, and an obvious snob.

If Valencia is so unhappy in West Covina, why does she choose to still live there? (Rhetorical.)Ugh. 

Even when I don't like what happens, I appreciate that the writers don't shy away from showing bad choices and behavior.

[possibilities]

WhiJo looked so different to me that I didn't even recognize him at first.

I hated the cat song.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

18 minutes ago, possibilities said:

WhiJo looked so different to me that I didn't even recognize him at first.

For me it was the stubble. I didn’t love it. But Dog Josh’s presence more than made up for it!

[AllyB]

I thought maybe WhiJo was wearing padding as he looked like he'd put weight, possibly as a plot line that he's still comfort eating in his sadness about the Darryl break up.

Question about West Covina from someone who isn't the least bit familiar with California/Los Angeles. Looking at Google maps West Covina seems like a commutable area for LA and well within the Greater Los Angeles urban area. I've had longer commutes in London, which were considered short by London standards.

[DianeDobbler]

Before now, I've been sure of the story CEG was telling. Didn't know how they'd "fix" Rebecca or where she'd end up, but I understood what was going on with her.  She was an essentially decent, super bright person completely controlled by her anxiety, depression and obsessions. Specifically, romantic obsessions. And of course, had tremendous, unaddressed rage.

As Brosh McKenna said, she was grabbing onto rocks and bolders as she crashed down the mountain. Josh was the false safety net - she poured everything into him instead of dealing with what was going on inside. And in the process, the show got to critique tropes about romance, romantic comedy, male and female attractiveness, female friendship, etc.

Now, I don't know what's up. Mostly because of the eight month time leap and the fact that we were told she'd made enough progress for her therapist to clear her to go to private therapy again. So was her therapist WRONG? If I take it on faith, then I'm supposed to believe she's stable enough to leave group and her other doctor. But she's into the dark web where she apparently did put a hit out on Mona, she's manipulating people like Paula and feeling bad about it but not coming clean, her line delivery to Trent about "love kernels" not being real seemed bitter, instead of insightful. So I'm pretty lost. I could fill it in myself, spin it for myself, but I don't really want to. If you're telling a story, I want the information on the screen, as it was for three and a half seasons.

Mona/Nathaniel - when Rebecca showed us Josh's family,, and when CEG did JAP Battle Rap, both experiences felt very specific. I read Fillipino fans talking about the decor in Josh's house as reading very familiar, that the show had really researched. JAP Battle Rap was ultra specific about Westchester, social rituals and the totems of academic, professional and romantic success. Nathaniel and Mona were just like "Ok we're WASPs, so of course our parents don't actually express love to each other or us, it's all fake, and I want something different." Come on. That just feels lazy and unresearched.

The writing for Valencia lately also feels lazy, her girlfriend notwithstanding. Beth is a doll, though.

Something about this season is making me question Rebecca's tremendous pull on everyone around her - not just the guys, but everyone. She's not too appealing lately.  Her being senior partner also makes no sense, and is obnoxious. Nathaniel and Darryl own most of the company. Rebecca REPRESENTS (doesn't own, just represents the investor, which is a whole other problem) the very minor number of ex-wife shares that, if aligned with Darryl's shares, make Darryl's team the senior partner side again. So why is SHE senior partner? It should be him.

Loved the shoes on Mona. 

I did appreciate we got to check in, finally, with where Paula was in law school, and got a few minutes of seeing her function so competently at work - stark contrast to Office Bitch (where is the consistency)? One thing I HAVE understood for most of the season is the separation of Paula and Rebecca. Paula had a whole bunch of wake up calls concerning her vicarious tendencies, and I felt the separation was telling us she had pulled back and was not involving herself in all of Rebecca's shenanagins.

I've thought more about why I didn't like "Buttload of cats", and it's story and character reasons. I've never heard from the "healthier" Rebecca that not having a love interest "for now" meant she was an afghan-knitting, cat-owning woman meant to be forever single. When did that come up, and why wasn't it explored in therapy? She didn't feel ready, or lacked the courage, but there was no sense she was sentencing herself to a completely romance-free future until this song, not to mention equating "no love interest" with "crippling loneliness and empty life" is pretty problematic, particularly for this show. BTW, dogs sleep about 16 hours a day too. Obviously dogs and cats are different, but plenty of cats are affectionate, and plenty of dogs are independent sorts who dislike being slobbered over.

Edited February 11, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[dubbel zout]

34 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

So why is SHE senior partner? It should be him.

Rebecca led the movement to wrest control of the firm away from Nathaniel's family, so being senior partner seems a reasonable reward for that. Also, Darryl might not want the responsibility. 

34 minutes ago, DianeDobbler said:

stark contrast to Office Bitch (where is the consistency)?

I don't think Paula realized how unreasonable she was being until it was pointed out to her. It seemed to me she focused on a lot of petty stuff and missed the bigger picture that the work itself was generally more than acceptable. (Just because we see her being competent now doesn't mean she won't regress when someone consistently misuses a semicolon or tab settings. Heh.)

[DianeDobbler]

I remember the plot point that led to Rebecca acquiring the ex-wife's shares, but they are still the (vastly) minority shares, of little influence unless allied w/Darryl's. Whatever led Darryl to prefer her to be senior partner happened off screen, and I don't really believe it. Darryl was very into being co-equal partners with Nathaniel, and distressed that Nathaniel had acquired the ex-wife's shares, making him majority partner. In the past, whenever people have not taken Darryl seriously, he's turned out not to be such a pushover. He resisted making "Weekend Tuesday" a work at home day, and reminded White Josh that he founded and co-ran a successful law firm. His stake in that firm means more to him than he often lets on, but he does let on. Rebecca represents probably less than 5%, and she doesn't own them (in fact, the guy who bought them wasn't allowed to buy them actually, as he's not a lawyer, so that's another thing). Senior partner and first on the masthead, particularly how hastily it was done, feels incredibly contrived - just a hasty plot contrivance to stick Nathaniel and Rebecca in a shared office. Rebecca has negligible power without the force of Darryl's shares, so I hope CEG doesn't forget that along with other stuff it overlooks.

The problem with Paula being office bitch is the stuff she focused on WASN'T petty. We were introduced to her plotline by Jim and another lawyer blowing a piece of paper across the conference room table. Legal work is incredibly precise down to the formatting and fonts - bad work product isn't just stuff that's too long (a non-petty critique), it's also stuff that's improperly formatted as to font and margins. Legal stuff is proofed for tab setting consistency and semicolons, not to mention the blue book exists for a reason. It is the wrong profession to call someone out about so-called "petty" critiques, since the critiques were not petty in a legal environment. Crazy Ex Girlfriend show us that half the personnel at Whitefeather ARE incompetent, but then rags on Paula for calling it out, which I found incredibly unfair. It felt sexist and pandering in a way that a man would never have been labeled, and CEG didn't engage the topic at all.

It would be different if it were good work, but it IS half-assed, sloppy work, but somehow she's the bad guy for correcting it, in a profession that doesn't tolerate it. The jobs are also blurred. When Maya was introduced, she was an assistant/secretary (not a paralegal, as far as I could grasp). Paula's the paralegal - I'm sure she's taking on a lot more legal work, writing basic briefs and affirmations, etc. Are all the rest of them lawyers? Is Sunil a lawyer now or is he still in law school and came on to be a helper paralegal? I just dont' like the cheap/unthought path CEG of all shows has been traveling down for its supporting cast, deploying tropes for convenience instead of deconstructing them.

P.S. - it's funny - if we throwback to an episode from a previous season, we see Rebecca tackling a piece of writing and taking out the Oxford commas. She knows her shit. To pretend it's a buzz kill to know your shit in a law office is the wrong hill to die on.

Edited February 11, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[huahaha]

7 hours ago, doesntworkonwood said:

That said, I really don't know why Rebecca lied to her in the first place? It didn't really make sense to me.  

Rebecca's lying is consistent with borderline personality disorder. That's one of the things I loved about this episode. Rebecca's illness was an actual obstacle, with past insecurities coming back to roost. Instead of coming clean, she added a new layer of lies with their own impending consequences.

The show went back to its old hijinks as well, which made this my favorite episode in a long time.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Songs from this week:

Uncensored version of the cat song:

 

I'm Just a Boy in Love:

 

Back in Action:

[possibilities]

The show seems to have a disconnect between what people are saying about how  much better Rebecca is doing, while they're showing her to not be all that different. It's maybe true that many people don't really change much, but this show has always had a much clearer agenda than "people be stagnant". One thing I do see is that the consequences of her dysfunctions are more apparent. The first couple of seasons we all saw how ridiculous her behavior was, but it wasn't clear just where rock bottom would be.

I actually think that putting a hit on someone is worse than wedding planning mania, and lying to Paula (which was more or less a covert or soft blackmailing) is not any kind of improvement over anything she did in the past. Suicide is also a fairly dire choice, arguably way more destructive than pursuing Josh who is a basically decent person and not really dangerous even if he's not exactly mature. So is she doing better, or not? Her relationship with Nathanial was also more overtly disrespectful than her "friendship" with Josh; she was compulsively pursuing Josh despite his commitment to Valencia, but was still trying not to cross a line because she knew it would be wrong, where with Nathanial she was blatantly crossing lines and not even pretending to care.

She sees what she's doing sometimes, but she still does it. And the same people are not enabling her as much as before-- but arguably Dr. Akopian is enabling her MORE, because she seems to think Rebecca is doing far better than she actually is. Most of her improvements are lip service.

Edited February 11, 2018 by possibilities

[ElectricBoogaloo]

11 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Loved that Valencia and Josh got a chance to dance together! I feel like we haven't really seen Valencia dance much and her more recent dancing was not nearly to that level of choreography. I think the last number she did that showcased her dancing at all was Good at Yoga back in S1.

 

10 hours ago, quangtran said:

I'd say the Triceratops Ballet with Josh certainly counts as a dancing showcase.

In my opinion, the triceratops ballet did not show much of Gabrielle's dance skills at all (although I agree that it was a showcase for her in the sense that she got to be the focus rather than a backup dancer in someone else's song). I think people were impressed because she was en pointe but realistically that was less than ten seconds of very basic pointe work (arabesque, developpé, and then bourée) in the first segment. The only other real dancing she did was one lift (and it wasn't even a ballet lift - you see that lift in disco and jazz). The rest of the dance was posing and running around the stage. Even though Gabrielle Ruiz obviously has dance training, that particular routine did not do anything to highlight it for me. It looked like the kind of routine designed for someone who did ballet a million years ago to show them doing ballet but hiding the fact that they haven't actually had any ballet training in a very long time. That's more a criticism of the actual choreography than her skill level. But as someone who took ballet, I can spot a "let's do a ballet routine without showing that much ballet" routine a mile away. Josh actually had way more ballet in his choreography (the tour jetés in particular).

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

Question about West Covina from someone who isn't the least bit familiar with California/Los Angeles. Looking at Google maps West Covina seems like a commutable area for LA and well within the Greater Los Angeles urban area. I've had longer commutes in London, which were considered short by London standards.

As I said earlier, Los Angeles is actually a very large area so getting from West Covina to the easternmost part of Los Angeles proper (as in the actual city of Los Angeles) is not that big a deal - it's less than 20 miles. If you want to check on google maps, you can use the USC medical center, the Ahmanson Theater, or anywhere in Chinatown - those are all technically in the city of Los Angeles, but on the eastern side of LA. Without traffic, it's less than half an hour away by car. But as they joked about several times during S1, it CAN take a long time to get anywhere in LA due to traffic.

But as someone who used to live in LA, people generally consider the surrounding areas to be part of LA. There are lots of neighborhoods and small cities that people will refer to by name but they're all considered part of the greater Los Angeles area because there are really no clear demarcation lines. It's not like some places where there's The Big City and then there's nothing for 50 miles until the next city/suburb. In LA, sometimes you cross an intersection and you're technically in a new city. I know people who lived/worked in LA who have commuted to places further away than West Covina to LA. In the 80s/90s, it was common for people to live/work in San Diego/Los Angeles which is 100 miles (at least two hours by car or train).

Edited February 11, 2018 by ElectricBoogaloo

[DianeDobbler]

48 minutes ago, possibilities said:

The show seems to have a disconnect between what people are saying about how  much better Rebecca is doing, while they're showing her to not be all that different. It's maybe true that many people don't really change much, but this show has always had a much clearer agenda than "people be stagnant". One thing I do see is that the consequences of her dysfunctions are more apparent. The first couple of seasons we all saw how ridiculous her behavior was, but it wasn't clear just where rock bottom would be.

 

1

This post was better and more focused than any of mine. Throughout Crazy Ex Girlfriend, I always knew what was going on, and the dark episodes of the first half of this season just paid that off. 

But now, the information we have is Rebecca did eight months of therapy, progressing enough to the point that her mental health support system saw enough progress that she was able to go back to Dr. Akopian. At least that's what I got out of it. That's supposed to be progress, right? Furthermore, Dr. Akopian confirmed her progress by telling her it was ok for her to take a chance on a real relationship and love.  So she interpreted Rebecca's affair with Nathaniel as a denial mechanism, and thought the solution was not for Rebecca to focus on her own shit (which was the recommended solution in the past, with Josh) but to come clean, have Nathaniel come clean, and embark on a real relationship, whatever the risks. So Akopian obviously thought there was reality with Nathaniel, reality that was only possible with a healthier Rebecca.

Yet as you say, the Rebecca we're seeing isn't healthier. In fact IMO is more insensitive (her attitude towards Nathaniel having a girlfriend).  Maybe she hesitated more with Valencia because she saw herself and Josh as "true love" whereas with Nathaniel she had a rationale (and denial) that didn't actually involve acquiring Nathaniel for herself. But that angle is me doing the work that the show should be doing.

If we weren't told that Rebecca's presumably competent mental health professional support system had declared her very much better, the show would make more sense. What she's doing at the moment seems to be stuff she'd be doing at the beginning of her therapy, and called out on by her shrink.

In the past, Rebecca was erratic, but Crazy Ex Girlfriend had a very sure grasp. At this point, CEG is as bad as its protogonist.

Edited February 11, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, DianeDobbler said:

taking out the Oxford commas

Blasphemy!!! (And potentially extremely expensive.)

Edited February 11, 2018 by dubbel zout
formatting problems

[niklj]

I wonder what the significance of Paula hanging up while Rebecca told her Trent was gone meant.

[HunterHunted]

Except for the 20s music, Valencia made the right decision to overrule the Riverdale theme because that's not really a thing. As an avid Riverdale viewer, I don't know how Valencia would have translated Riverdale's weird mix of the 50s and the present day. It's like 50s as interpreted by porn stars. For example, this is a deliberately 50s themed fundraiser for the local diner:

 

And now back to our discussion of Rebecca's mental health and the show's depiction of her recovery. 

3 minutes ago, niklj said:

I wonder what the significance of Paula hanging up while Rebecca told her Trent was gone meant.

That Paula is over Rebecca's bullshit and scheming and wanted to study for law school.

Edited February 11, 2018 by HunterHunted

[Cthulhudrew]

I guess I'm in the minority, but I like Trent. I don't find his crazy hijinks all that much more scary or distressing than the stuff that Rebecca gets up to on this comedy. If the show were more of a drama, then sure- although the things she's done (burning down a house, anyone?) would be pretty outrageous, as well. I just wish that Rebecca had shown him a little sympathy and suggested he get some help, because he's obviously just as in need of it as she is.

I did like Rebecca and Nathaniel together, but after this episode, I hope that he and Mona actually end up working out. She's barely had a few lines, and yet the scene of her and him in the restaurant was pretty heartfelt and I want her character to end up with someone. Admittedly, cheater Nathaniel doesn't really deserve her, but she's willing to give him a second chance, so I wish those two kids all the best, especially now that they seem to have realized that its possible for them to actually have and maintain a deeper, genuine connection.

Nice to see Valencia relax a little bit, and that Beth is a good influence on her, but I have to say, I really don't see what Beth sees in her. The way they're writing that relationship seems entirely one-sided. 

Can't believe it's the season finale already; I thought we'd have a clearer indication of where Rebecca's journey was taking her by this point, especially after they'd done so much in just a couple of episodes at the beginning of the season. Feels like maybe there were some filler episodes that didn't progress the longer plot, and I hope that doesn't end up biting them in the butt and leaving a finale that doesn't seem like it earns its climax.

I love puppets. That's all I have to say about that.

[quangtran]

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

She sees what she's doing sometimes, but she still does it. And the same people are not enabling her as much as before-- but arguably Dr. Akopian is enabling her MORE, because she seems to think Rebecca is doing far better than she actually is. Most of her improvements are lip service.

I'd say she's certainly doing better than before. Having affairs and lying to your best friends for selfish reasons is exactly the kind of kind of thing that normal non-crazy bad people do all the time. Heck, her being able to maintain a steady position as senior partner for eight months would be a huge step up from an earlier Bex who was broke and never did her job.

[Yeah No]

I knew Rebecca's serious healthy trend couldn't last.  It wouldn't be this show without some hi jinx.  She has to have some setbacks or it wouldn't be realistic, plus that's where the entertainment is in this show.  Trent is creepy but he's also a cartoon character and I don't necessarily love how far they've taken that.  Both he and Josh are caricatures.  I appreciated the tie in to Rebecca with the "Boy in Love" theme, though.  

I hate it when shows flip-flop a lot and this one is.  Will she or won't she with Nathaniel?  One day they're on, the next day off, the next day on again, and something always keeps them apart.  I don't care if it's something a bipolar person would do, it's a tiresome and overused trope in TV shows.  I've been putting up with this on "The Middle" between Sue and Sean.  Stop frustrating the audience and get ON with them already!  The miscommunications are getting ridiculous.  It looks like we might be headed for a cliff hanger regarding Rebecca and Nathaniel for the season finale.

I absolutely LOVED the cat song!

[Irlandesa]

4 hours ago, possibilities said:

She sees what she's doing sometimes, but she still does it. And the same people are not enabling her as much as before-- but arguably Dr. Akopian is enabling her MORE, because she seems to think Rebecca is doing far better than she actually is. Most of her improvements are lip service.

I do wish we would get more of their therapy sessions.  I suspect Dr. Akopian isn't enabling her as much as she's being played.  Dr. Akopian worked hard to convince Rebecca that she needed serious help only to be met with resistance for the longest time.  So when Rebecca came back to office after group therapy, she was a vast improvement over that old Rebecca. She had a diagnosis and knew she needed help.  In many ways, Rebecca is finally behaving like the patient Dr. Akopian has wanted to her to be so even with all her flaws.

But she's also hiding stuff from Dr. Akopian.  It's a dual life.  She's copping to affairs but glossing over sleeping with her ex's dad and likely not saying one peep about her attempted hit on Mona. As with much in Rebecca's life, she's embracing her need for therapy and wants to please.

1 hour ago, quangtran said:

Having affairs and lying to your best friends for selfish reasons is exactly the kind of kind of thing that normal non-crazy bad people do all the time. Heck, her being able to maintain a steady position as senior partner for eight months would be a huge step up from an earlier Bex who was broke and never did her job.

Earlier Bex worked and was able to hold down jobs for longer periods than 8 months both at Whitefeather and in NYC.  And we don't know her current financial situation.

It's true she's senior partner and wasn't before but she's senior partner at a small firm whose ownership breaks down to Darryl's shares, Nathaniel's family's shares and whoever owns (Rebecca?) Darryl's ex-wife's shares.  Darryl adores Rebecca and sees her as family so it makes sense he'd approve her of being senior partner.  Hell, she just gave him an egg. 

But the job also had the big bonus of being the place of her illicit affair.  They would fuck at work.  It's a small office.  No one could know.  Rebecca's job is work but it's conveniently also a place where she could get her fill on danger and drama.

Regular people do have affairs but it's in the details where the crazy comes in.  Just as it's in the details when it comes to lying.  People might lie to their friends.  Very few can say they lied to their friends in order to coerce them into risking their professions to do some illegal/stalkery stuff in order to take down the man who is threatening to reveal that you briefly took a hit out on your lover's girlfriend.  And for those who do have these circumstances, I think most people would think something is just not quite right with that person.

[AllyB]

Some great points about Rebecca and her mental health. It's also worth remembering that in Nathaniel Needs My Help Rebecca manipulated George into helping her stalk Nathaniel's father by telling him she'd kill herself and leave a note blaming him if he didn't do what she wanted. It was played for a throw away laugh but that's actually despicable behaviour. Other than taking out a hit on Mona, it's possibly the worst thing she has ever done. She saw how cut up everyone was about her suicide attempt and used that to blackmail someone into doing something he really didn't want to do, that put his livelihood at risk and was most likely illegal. (Way worse than Trent's blackmail in this episode as he was at least blackmailing her with the consequences of her own crimes, she blackmailed George by making him responsible for her behaviour.) Tbh, it makes me doubt the very sincerity of her suicide attempt. And even assuming that the overdose on the plane was genuine desperation rather than a way of making everyone immediately 'forgive' her, it showed me that her main take away from the overdose was the knowledge of how powerful a tool of manipulation the threat of her killing herself can be.

I also agree that she is playing Dr Akopian. I think Akopian is an insightful, caring therapist but Rebecca resisted her for so long when she could see how much she needed help, now that Rebecca is playing along, she is blinded by her own satisfaction. I've seen that happen in real life when a manipulative patient can play a good therapist/psychiatrist for a while. But it never lasts. Eventually the therapist starts to see through the version of reality that their patient is presenting. They finally start to tell the patient things they don't want to hear until the patient has enough and leaves their care. This is a cycle that can repeat itself through numerous therapists over decades of pretence at mental health care when the real goal is to find enabler after enabler. It takes a lot to actually work on getting healthy and a complete change in attitude that Rebecca just hasn't made. Sure, she wants to be healthy but she either hasn't accepted just how much of what she considers normal will have to be discarded in order to be healthy or she knows but has decided to do the minimum required to get her life back to where she wants it to be.

Even breaking up with Nathaniel after the events of ...Needs My Help was far less about being healthy and more about being seen to be healthy. She knew she should break up with him so she did and then she announced it left right and centre so everyone could praise her, then she decided to force him to work with her and immediately took up a secret affair. There was nothing healthy about those choices, she actually made everything worse than if she'd just continued the relationship, but she did get a lot of praise and validation from her friends and medical health professionals. I don't know what the end goal is in terms of the series, but I keep coming back to the message that 'life doesn't make narrative sense' so I'm starting to wonder if Rebecca just isn't going to get better. If she'll keep making this pretence while her friends and lovers get more and more tired of it all and eventually she just moves on to the next obsession in the next town. It's depressing but it is very common in real life. It kind of explains Nathaniel's importance and Josh's stupidity in the more recent episodes. None of it is real life, Rebecca told us in this episode that the montage visuals were from her pov. That was in reference to Trent's coyotes but I think it might be true for the whole series. She's over Josh now, so all we get to see is him being a dumb dumb because that suits her current image of him. While Nathaniel being her true love if only her mental health wasn't an obstacle is the story she is telling herself now, so that's the story we see. If/when she moves on from Nathaniel, we'll probably go back to seeing him as this evil, heartless capitalist.

Lastly, I share the unpopular opinion of really enjoying Trent. I think he's a great mirror of Rebecca's behaviour and shows just how very disturbing she is to people who don't root for her lovability in the way that the audience has been set up to. And I think Paul Welsh does an utterly fantastic job of being a happily deluded creep. He has such an empty but joyful look in his eyes when he's hopeful about his relationship with Rebecca and his 'Boy in Love' was fantastic.

Edited February 11, 2018 by AllyB

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, AllyB said:

Lastly, I share the unpopular opinion of really enjoying Trent. I think he's a great mirror of Rebecca's behaviour and shows just how very disturbing she is to people who don't root for her lovability in the way that the audience has been set up to. And I think Paul Welsh does an utterly fantastic job of being a happily deluded creep. He has such an empty but joyful look in his eyes when he's hopeful about his relationship with Rebecca and his 'Boy in Love' was fantastic.

I really enjoy Trent, but in very small doses. I think they've been using him really well for what he's supposed to be, i.e., the male Rebecca. (As many others have pointed out.) And yes, the actor is fantastic. But I don't want Trent to be a bigger part of the show than he is.

[lexiexx]

I found myself wondering if we are actually supposed to be rooting for Rebecca after this episode.   It was fun to see her scheming but really she's only generous when it benefits her, and other than that she's manipulative, a flat out liar, and kind of scary.   Even simple minded Josh caught on to that.   Nathaniel could do better.   They need to step up the writing, her antics seem kind of forced now.  The dark web?   Come on.    It was a lot more fun to watch Rebecca do something like the "research me" episode as opposed to the dark web nonsense.  

[LisaM]

How did Mona find out that Nathaniel was having sex with Rebecca? For a moment, I was worried that Rebecca had tipped the news to Mona to get her to break up with Nathaniel.

I like Beth a lot and hope that Valencia doesn't screw this up.

I noticed that Heather's hair was dyed again. I thought she had stopped while pregnant?

[DianeDobbler]

CEG overall feels forced now. It is basically imitating itself.

Trent has always been one of my favorite characters, but Rebecca's response to him lacked shading this time around.  And his exposition was over-written.  Yes in a reality-based context he'd be terrifying, but CEG always played a sort of synchronicity between them. In this episode, she treated him with open contempt, and some of his dialogue didn't sound like him.  In the past, CEG had hit upon his talents for cooking very lightly. In one great scene, they ate the dinner he'd prepared. Rebecca had wanted him gone, but was also exhausted, defeated, and a little short in the self-care department. Trent's dinner proved too tempting, and he threw in a shoulder massage. He was sympathetic company as she vented. Kind of modeling the ideal partner, which was what made it funny. Here, there was nothing to ground their interaction, and stuff like his cooking and other quirks were sledgehammered, and belabored, without telling us anything about either of them. Previously, it had showed that Rebecca was so needy, she'd make HIM work in a pinch, and it was kind of relatable (at times we could all use a be-aproned Trent waiting with dinner prepared at the end of a tough day). It progressed our understanding of Rebecca. 

I guess Rebecca has fooled her therapists in some respects, but we should know whether or not she has. She was never previously able to fool Dr. Akopian even the first time around, and her other doctor (Dr. Shin?) never fell for any of her shit. It's stretching it to believe she fooled them into thinking she'd made progress. 

Other than the knee-jerk allusion to WASP families, I liked Nathaniel and Mona's scene. I liked that he noted she had only one butt cheek on the chair and "that's fair." I liked she wasn't portrayed as clingy and controlling. I agree she should have been angrier, but she also conveyed somehow that she had sort of backed herself into the relationship, following the string without previously admitting to herself how much it meant to her. She admitted she'd had other opportunities to screw around, and that her parents had been pushing her, but "I liked the guy I was seeing." It felt true when it could have felt like a cop-out.

I'm glad Josh got a little bit of love this episode from Valencia's girlfriend. Valencia is not just a cartoon these days, she's been re-written. Oh, let's give up the attempt to make her a real person - let's just write bitch. She's always been fully of West Covina - wanted nothing more than to be accepted by Josh's parents, be a big fish in a small pond if she could, get married, and have babies. When she and Josh moved in together, he was excited about the apartment being "close" to some cool destinations - she was excited that it made them "close" (she thought) to marriage and family.  So this "I'm bigger than this stupid town" attitude comes from nowhere. And YES, I could fill in the blanks myself, but shouldn't have to.

The last scene with Rebecca and Nathaniel felt ok to me. All this way CEG was suddenly writing that it was ABOUT Rebecca and Nathaniel, and the other stuff was obstacles (like The Middle, I guess). It's not about that, it's not about who gets together. The tropes had been so overused with them, it started to feel that way, though. Whenever they were on the outs, they pretended to be angry or dislike each other. Here, Nathaniel had removed himself from her influence but also told her she was a good person. That felt more grounded and real, but I think this beat was told without real clarity as to what's going on w/our protogonist. The therapy piece is what's screwing it up. If her therapy hadn't validated that she's better, all of this would play better. Instead we have to believe she fooled her therapists in order to understand what's going on. I also see her more aware of her issues, but making little attempt to manage them, and she's inexplicably nastier and meaner. Aline Brosh McKenna keeps talking about how compelling Rebecca is, how decent, how loveable despite all of her issues, but they've really lost that aspect of her character

How Mona found out is another thing we have to figure out for ourselves, but I don't mind as much in her case. Neither Nathaniel nor Rebecca were discreet. They sexted a lot. Nathaniel could have bailed early on evenings with Mona, his sex drive could have been a little lower key than you'd expect. Mona could have wanted to come over and he could have said he was busy, or he could have broken plans and dates. From there, just seeing a glimpse of a sext or seeing Rebecca's body language could be plenty if she went to the office. Particularly since they were sharing space.

PS, Donna Lynn Champlin did great work in this episode. I always love the less broad side of Donna, when she's smart, vulnerable, more nuanced. She played her reluctance to get involved and her love for Rebecca in equal measure, and I even enjoyed what she conveyed in that long shot in the end, talking to Nathaniel about some work issue.

Edited February 11, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[applecrisp]

I loved the cat song. The cat puppets were so cute.

I was surprised that Trent gave up so easily and left. That in NOT like Rebecca.

[quangtran]

9 hours ago, LisaM said:

How did Mona find out that Nathaniel was having sex with Rebecca?

She only suspected it. She didn't know for sure until she did that thing where she tricked Nathaniel until confirming it himself. And the reality of workplace relations is that spending even a bit of additional time with a co-worker will lead to office gossip.

8 hours ago, applecrisp said:

I was surprised that Trent gave up so easily and left. That in NOT like Rebecca.

Josh was never smart enough to figure her out or brave enough for that kind of confrontation, but I think she would have easily walked away and left forever if he told her that he doesn't love her and never will.

9 hours ago, lexiexx said:

I found myself wondering if we are actually supposed to be rooting for Rebecca after this episode.  

I don't think where supposed to. Rachel makes a big point about how she doesn't really care about writing a likable lead and that she makes sure that the suprting characters develop faster than the lead, which is spelled after the time-jump when wike most of the other characters, Rebecca mostly stayed the same.

8 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

Valencia is not just a cartoon these days, she's been re-written.

I thought it was more of the writers remembering that Valencia was always shallow. I always felt like a lot of her personality was sapped away in season 2 when she and Rebecca became friends.

Edited February 12, 2018 by quangtran

[SomeTameGazelle]

7 hours ago, applecrisp said:

I loved the cat song. The cat puppets were so cute.

 

I have a hard time enjoying it unless I can assume that Rebecca's insistence that cats are for lonely spinsters is just her latching onto a ludicrous stereotype. On the one hand later in the episode we got the reminder that the visual imagery of Trent with coyotes in his story was from Rebecca's imagination and therefore we can extrapolate all of the musical numbers are suspect; on the other hand within the number the customer cat lady did mention having been lonely as she and the cat saleslady bonded and walked off together. (Not that I have any cats, but it just doesn't seem that strange to me that a person could number one not mind being alone and number two find cats just the right speed of friendliness in a pet.) But it was fun as Rebecca's exaggeration of how she was going to martyr herself by being Single Forever.

When Trent told Rebecca that her wedding to Josh was for a marriage she didn't want anyway, it kind of made me want to see an episode of the future that never was of Rebecca's marriage to Josh. Maybe there is no window of opportunity for Rebecca to imagine it and have it make sense in any storyline. And maybe I only think that I would find it interesting because it could be delusionally over the top and I hadn't thought of any reason to see Nathaniel in it, but now that I think about it she would probably wind up having an affair with Nathaniel in it so useless from that point of view.

I actually really liked the blue dress Trent got for Rebecca, although I assume that I was supposed to think it was Not Good since he was forcing her to wear it and it had a turtleneck.

[theatremouse]

On 2/10/2018 at 4:30 PM, AllyB said:

Question about West Covina from someone who isn't the least bit familiar with California/Los Angeles. Looking at Google maps West Covina seems like a commutable area for LA and well within the Greater Los Angeles urban area. I've had longer commutes in London, which were considered short by London standards.

It's a totally doable commute, depending on where in LA you're going, but I think the logic they're using is still hanging on the old "4 hours from the beach" joke. It's an extended "LA traffic is the worst" joke, which sometimes, it is. I mean, it took me an hour to get from downtown (near the Ahmanson) to Universal Studios on multiple occasions. Not even rush hour. That's 12 miles. So, basically, yes it is commutable, and if Valencia wanted to she could do most of her business in LA proper. But if seems like the business isn't doing well enough that they can actually afford an office, and if they can't afford one in West Covina they definitely can't afford one in downtown LA. Still Valencia's basically doing the self-loathing thing when she disses where she lives.

21 hours ago, niklj said:

I wonder what the significance of Paula hanging up while Rebecca told her Trent was gone meant.

I assume she was on the dark web, mainly because what her screen looked like was similar to when they've done that on this show before, not based in anything well reasoned. Maybe by the end of the show everyone will have tried to take out a hit on everyone else. Rebecca and Nathaniel have already tried. Why not Paula?

I'm kidding.

Mostly.

[Mockingbird]

If all of this “You’re a good person, Rebecca” doesn’t get us a reprise of “I’m a Good Person,” I’ll be very disappointed. 

I’m annoyed the writers are forcing Nathanial/Rebecca on us because I’m totally with White Josh. I have no idea what he sees in her right now to make him so head over heels. If it’s that she’s passionate and really feels things, unlike his parents, I guess that’s fine. But, regardless of how I felt about them, I understood why both Greg and Josh were into Rebecca in season 1 and 2. Maybe I’m just bitter that Nathaniel’s eclipsing characters I care a whole lot more about. Or that this show appears to be falling into all of the tropes it used to skewer. I hope that I’m wrong and Nathaniel actual ends up happy with Mona. Then I’ll happily apologize to all of the writers. 

More judgy Dog Josh, please. 

[ElectricBoogaloo]

17 hours ago, LisaM said:

How did Mona find out that Nathaniel was having sex with Rebecca? For a moment, I was worried that Rebecca had tipped the news to Mona to get her to break up with Nathaniel.

I noticed that Heather's hair was dyed again. I thought she had stopped while pregnant?

If I recall correctly, her streaks this week were red, which you can achieve without traditional hair dyes. A lot of people use red henna but I have also known people who used red Kool-Aid mix to get that color. There's also the possibility that Heather used clip in extensions. There are some temporary hair dyes that have less chemicals in them. Manic Panic is a popular brand that's advertised as having no harmful chemicals. Red is also one of the colors that adheres really well, even with semi-permanent hair dyes, so if you use it 2-3 times, then it becomes pretty permanent (unlike the purple she was sporting a few weeks ago - purple fades very quickly and has to be re-dyed fairly often).

Mona suspected that Nathaniel was sleeping with Rebecca but she didn't know until she tricked him into confessing at dinner.

Mona: So if we move in together, that means you'll stop sleeping with Rebecca Bunch?
Nathaniel: How did you know I was sleeping with Rebecca?
Mona: I wasn't sure, but thank you, now I am.

16 hours ago, applecrisp said:

I was surprised that Trent gave up so easily and left. That in NOT like Rebecca.

A part of me suspects that Trent is just taking some time to regroup, move the contents of his storage facility, and come up with his next plan to get Rebecca to love him.

[Eeksquire]

Quote

A part of me suspects that Trent is just taking some time to regroup, move the contents of his storage facility, and come up with his next plan to get Rebecca to love him.

Am I right in thinking that we've seen Trent once per season? In Season One, during the water lawsuit; in Season Two, after the breakup with Josh and Greg; and now, in Season Three, with this blackmail business? If that's the case, I think we'll see him once more next season before the series is over, which is just about the right amount of Trent.

[DianeDobbler]

Quote

 

Trent has been on six episodes including the one this season. 

If Rebecca had been confronted by Josh the way she confronted Trent, I think Rebecca would have slunk away as well. She never flat out confessed her love or confessed what she'd done to achieve it until they were completely done and she sang "After Everything I've Done For You" at the church. Trent, OTOH, came clean to Rebecca in this episode, not that she didn't already pretty much know the score. Rebecca's whole game was that Josh wouldn't know what she was doing, but if she worked proximity and all of her strategies, he'd fall in love. And truly, she succeeded in keeping it from him. So no matter how many close calls she experienced, she never had to face up to him saying "I know you love me, I know everything you've done, I don't love you, and stay away."  I don't think she would have continued to pursue him after that. Maybe she would have hit rock bottom then.

I, too, did "get" why both Josh and Greg liked Rebecca. I didn't necessarily buy Greg falling in love, but I got why she'd tick his boxes/push his buttons, particularly since he had to have been kind of bored with his life.  This season I'm completely at a loss. I don't think she's looking her best (it might be the hair color), she's not vivacious and electric so much as overbearing and kind of mean, and surely there are other women in West Covina who are (presumably) wildcats in bed.

Sort of petty, but I disliked the "Explicit" version of Buttload of Cats. To be clear, I think the explicit version of JAP Battle Rap is a 1,000x funnier than the network version, and I think the "fucks" in "I go to the zoo" sound more natural than the "hells" on network. So that said, "Fuckton" just isn't funny, and actually doesn't express the sentiment in the song as well, so it seems pointless. Buttload, in my head, is just the right amount of cats to make the point (even though I didn't like the song nor the tropes it reinforced). Fuckton is just "Saying fuck is always funnier than not saying fuck" and I don't agree.

Something else just occurred to me - presumably Nathaniel likes Rebecca because she's the antithesis of his background. But how honest and open is she with him? We haven't seen it. All I get from them is that she's very dramatic - the opposite of his family, and is the presumable spitfire in the sack. Actual intimacy where he knows what's going on in her head and she's vulnerable to him? We haven't seen that, and, in fact, he has a tendency to minimize her situation. Drama and energy don't =   intimacy, emotional openness and vulnerability, but it's like CEG equates them. Rebecca is really no more open than the most uptight WASP. She's always running some game. Edited - because despite the hints about love, and the occasional heartfelt-seeming couple of sentences they exchange, all they ever seem to do is fuck.

Edited February 12, 2018 by DianeDobbler

[Glory]

Well, my theory that Trent was secret end game is probably shot.

Though, I think that if Trent had showed up acting all nonchalant and aloof, Rebecca would have dug him. 

I enjoy the actor and character. He cracks me up in a super dark way. The blackmail thing probably makes him nonredeemable in a relationship kind of way, but he did leave willingly when she failed the love test so he could still turn it around.

I'm rooting for you Trent!

I fully realize that this is probably NOT what I was supposed to takeaway from this episode, but it is what it is. 

[Zoe]

On 2/10/2018 at 1:05 AM, kit.kat343 said:

It's fine for West Covina to not be the right fit for Valencia.  It's not fine for her to stay there and be bitter and miserable about it.  As Hannah once said on Girls, Valencia is pretty enough to have a "pretty person job" (hostessing/waitressing/bartending at a very high end restaurant/club) which would give her enough money to move to a city she wants to live in.  She needs to get out before she becomes a miserable, bitter person.

That's basically Greg's storyline though, so I don't see the show taking her in that direction.

[DianeDobbler]

When we met Valencia she was so stereotypically the "mean girl" other woman it seemed beneath the show, according to some reviewers, and then they showed us more of her in S1. She wanted Rebecca's friendship in S1 and responded when Rebecca reached out. She just shut down when it became obvious something was off, and then when it was obvious Rebecca was after Josh. We overheard Valencia on the phone to her parents, keeping her fingers crossed that he was about to propose. We heard from Josh that she had bad credit. Rebecca overheard Valencia and Josh talking after he confessed he and Rebecca had kissed. Valencia asked him if he loved Rebecca, and even said that she could understand it, as Rebecca was smart and interesting. Valencia is the opposite of Rebecca in being very stiff emotionally, and I think they've overdone it. I continue to think they threw in this bisexuality at the last minute to give her something to do and also get points, to tell the truth, as there was no sign of it before. She had enthusiastic sex with Josh (they were practically doing it standing up on the party bus, and then Rebecca overheard them in the spare bedroom during Thanksgiving), she and Rebecca got sidetracked for a few seconds while stalking Anna as they reminisced about Josh's skin and face, and she was an equal participant in "Let's Talk About Men." 

[herbaltease]

15 hours ago, Mockingbird said:

I’m annoyed the writers are forcing Nathanial/Rebecca on us because I’m totally with White Josh. I have no idea what he sees in her right now to make him so head over heels.

I appreciate White Josh's perspective, as well.  Yeah, Rebecca is the lead and sitcommy will-they-or-won't-they romances are a common trope for lead characters but I wonder if the writers are toeing the the machismo line a bit with her love interests.  It's been my personal, though not entirely unfounded, observation that a fair number of guys find "neediness" attractive.  The less independent (or clingy, fawning, etc.) the woman, the more attractive she becomes to insecure men.  The show hasn't yet anvil-ed us with this relationship dynamic, but IMO at least, it's present.

[angora]

2 hours ago, DianeDobbler said:

I continue to think they threw in this bisexuality at the last minute to give her something to do and also get points, to tell the truth, as there was no sign of it before. She had enthusiastic sex with Josh (they were practically doing it standing up on the party bus, and then Rebecca overheard them in the spare bedroom during Thanksgiving), she and Rebecca got sidetracked for a few seconds while stalking Anna as they reminisced about Josh's skin and face, and she was an equal participant in "Let's Talk About Men." 

The key word there is "bisexuality" - if she's attracted to both men and women, there's no reason that she wouldn't have enthusiastic sex with Josh when they were dating.