S02.E14: Super Bowl Sunday

[RedheadZombie]

8 hours ago, Maximona said:

Completely ridiculous.

There's no way a Code Blue on a previously healthy male in his late 30s only lasts for the time it takes Rebecca to make a couple of phone calls and shove a dollar into a vending machine.

They'd be working on Jack for at least an hour.

And it was a witnessed arrest in the ER.  Absolutely unbelievable. 

 

14 hours ago, Dowel Jones said:

The previous episode showed the flames rushing up the stairwell quite fast. I worked in the fire department for many years before retirement, and that's not unusual.  5 minutes and some houses will be fully involved.  And I'm guessing that the reason no one saw it so soon was that the neighborhood was inside their own homes watching the Super Bowl too.  I remember being at my sister's house, which is on a hillside and has a large picture window overlooking the neighborhood.  We were all chatting around until someone chanced to look out the window and noticed the house down the hill was on fire.  As for the tv show, what I can't see is waiting around in the bedroom to be told to get out.

It's because Jack is their all knowing god. They were incapable of helping themselves, even when Jack made the foolish choice to repeatedly move through the fire zone.  Only Jack had the sense to jump out the window. 

[kili]

Quote

And it was a witnessed arrest in the ER.

 

Was it witnessed? Jack was in his own little exam room. He seemed to only be hooked up to a pulse oximeter. Once Rebecca left the room, who would notice that Jack passed out until a nurse checked on him? The nurses have several patients to attend to. They don't have time to stare at one patient constantly. If Jack coded shortly after Rebecca left, it may have taken a while for the nurse to notice that he had stopped breathing. He may have been half-way between mostly dead and all dead when they started working on him. 

Jack should probably have been on a heart monitor and Rebecca probably should have been told to stay with Jack until they got him hooked up on one.

[CelticBlackCat]

11 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Yeah, I just do not get the humor there, if that's what they were going for, and it seemed to be. I'd be devastated if I killed some such creature, however accidentally, but Beth just seemed inconvenienced more than anything, even making a joke about it to Randall. The little girls didn't seem terribly upset either. I hope they don't get another pet of any ilk. Then again, apparently there are a lot of folks who wouldn't blink about letting a pet die in a fire, so maybe I'm oversensitive.

Bingo!  Ditto.  This.  I guess I'm one of the Oversensitives too.

[elle]

Having Kevin not be with his family on that fateful day seems to reinforce his separation from his family.  Kate and Randall went through a traumatic event with Rebecca bonding them together in a way I don't think the characters realize. They are all survivors of a fire.  I would not wish that on anyone.  Writing Kevin out of that experience I think may be another example of how Kevin is for the writers the outsider of the family.

[qtpye]

13 hours ago, Ohmo said:

So agree.   Kate seems to have this power over men.  Though it's not the case in my family, I can understand the dynamic between Jack and Kate.  Some father-daughter dynamics are like that.  I think that we're supposed to think that the Kate-Kevin dynamic is "the twin thing," but I think she treats him like crud.  When they were kids, he bribed the cool kid with Halloween candy to hold her hand.  As an adult, Kevin's given her a job.  Kate always talks a good game with Kevin, but she's always seemed very self-involved.  Ditto Toby.  I like Jack, but sometimes Kate's melodrama about what happened is just too much.  She's not happy unless everyone is grieving as she is.  Toby puts up with a lot and gets precious little in return from Kate, IMO.

You might be on to something.  I have a cousin who has always seems to have any male around her wrapped around her little finger....cousins, uncles, boyfriends, etc.  The thing is she is not what you would call conventionally attractive, to be honest she is actually not as pretty as Kate.  We had other cousins in are family that some would consider the "beauties", but she always the one that had a way with the guys.  The funny thing was if you pointed it out to the guys that they were being manipulated, they would get angry at you and point out how she was the sweetest most kindest girl in the world.

 

12 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Yeah, I just do not get the humor there, if that's what they were going for, and it seemed to be. I'd be devastated if I killed some such creature, however accidentally, but Beth just seemed inconvenienced more than anything, even making a joke about it to Randall. The little girls didn't seem terribly upset either. I hope they don't get another pet of any ilk. Then again, apparently there are a lot of folks who wouldn't blink about letting a pet die in a fire, so maybe I'm oversensitive.

It bothered me that the daughter was not disciplined more strongly for being so careless with a living animal.  She was told to be careful when playing with it and she let it escape in a house full of people, where the squashing was almost inevitable.

[debraran]

3 hours ago, kili said:

 

Was it witnessed? Jack was in his own little exam room. He seemed to only be hooked up to a pulse oximeter. Once Rebecca left the room, who would notice that Jack passed out until a nurse checked on him? The nurses have several patients to attend to. They don't have time to stare at one patient constantly. If Jack coded shortly after Rebecca left, it may have taken a while for the nurse to notice that he had stopped breathing. He may have been half-way between mostly dead and all dead when they started working on him. 

Jack should probably have been on a heart monitor and Rebecca probably should have been told to stay with Jack until they got him hooked up on one.

I think Fogleman's idea to have Jack die in a heart attack after a huge fire, was the idea in the beginning. I really don't think, not being ER type show, he looked into what would have happened, just what he wanted to happen. Most nurses, etc., even myself, who worked in a hospital, know, how he was treated, was odd after such a fire and why weren't the kids checked and Kate? They still inhaled smoke. What year it happened didn't change procedure much. There are pages on those procedures from 60's on, 4-6 hours of observation, tests, blood levels to check for various things. I think if he had the doc order the tests and he died while she was away, being monitored, effect would be the same, but leaving him without anything to help him breath or test his oxygen levels, seems odd. He looked awful, very sick, his face tore the hearts of many watching as he told Rebecca to get him something. Trained eyes should have been doing more even if outcome was the same.  With google access so easy, it just seems lazy when he doesn't research things.

[Higgins]

On ‎2‎/‎5‎/‎2018 at 12:02 AM, Arcadiasw said:

Show got me again. Did not see the foster boy storyline turning out the way it did. Good casting for the older Tess.

Jack killed himself going back for the dog and possessions. 

I did not think the doctor who delivered the twins was still alive when Jack died. 

I didn't expect them to splice tonight Superbowl into tonight's show. 

So was it clarified there were smoke alarms on both floors and none had working batteries? It looked like they only had one alarm and on the first floor which is insane since the house has two floors. 

If Jack had what was termed by the doctor "a widow maker" he would have had that massive MI soon anyway, That condition is caused by coronary artery disease and happens when there is complete occlusion which results in massive muscle tissue death He was a ticking time bomb. 

No code is abandoned that quickly. 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Higgins

[cameron]

What doesn't make sense to me is why they didn't use the windows in the individual rooms to get out instead of running through a burning house.

[debraran]

29 minutes ago, cameron said:

What doesn't make sense to me is why they didn't use the windows in the individual rooms to get out instead of running through a burning house.

In perfect world, they would have discussed that, some windows were above porch (like my son's room) and it's easier to get out and on ground without big jump. I remember a firefighter teaching us to hang back in the 60's,when I was in school, the drop would be less, how to crawl, etc.  It's a scary time though, you panic but I hope the show opens up discussion on it for families.

Edited February 6, 2018 by debraran

[JudyObscure]

We've talked about Kate's ongoing grief and discussed whether she's been wallowing or not -- but what about her actual behavior during the fire?  Am I the only one who wanted to yell at her to get a grip?  Kate was 17, not nine, old enough to know that the entire family was in a life or death crisis and it might just be a good time to obey her father for once.  That struggling with him and refusing to cross the hall to the other bedroom was a big time waster, yet it was certainly  enough time for Kate to see that the flames were coming up the stairs. 

When she was on the lawn screaming at her father to save her dog I wanted Rebecca to turn and slap her.  Kate was old enough to know that she was asking her father to risk his life for her dog and I think that was just plain wrong.  I love my dogs. I got an Irish Setter puppy for my third birthday and he was still the best thing in my world when I was 17, but I know I would not have screamed at my father to go back for him in a fire. I would probably have reminded him of where the dog was but left it to my father to decide how great the risk was.

   Rebecca was also at fault for assuming the role of a helpless female  through the entire thing. At that moment on the lawn she should have shut Kate up.  Lastly Jack, should have simply refused Kate's orders.  He was the grown-up.  He should have gotten himself to safety and explained to Kate that as heartbreaking as it was to leave the dog behind, it would have been wrong for him to risk his life for the dog.  He is the sole support of a family. 

We say our dogs are members of the family, but as much as we love them we really usually don't value them in the same  way we do our human family members.  If the dog had died would the family still be holding memorial rituals every Super Bowl Sunday? The short life span of a dog is another factor to consider, the dog probably only had a few years left at best, while Jack could have had 40 more years.  I'm sorry if that sounds heartless but those are things every human should keep in mind before running into flames for their pet. 

[Guest]

Quote

What doesn't make sense to me is why they didn't use the windows in the individual rooms to get out instead of running through a burning house.

I think Jack said something about being unable to climb down from Kate's room when he was trying to get her out.  Possibly there wasn't a ledge outside her window, although I would think simply jumping from a second floor window might be preferable to trying to go thru a fire.  Not sure about Randall's room.   

[Katy M]

10 hours ago, Maximona said:

Completely ridiculous.

There's no way a Code Blue on a previously healthy male in his late 30s only lasts for the time it takes Rebecca to make a couple of phone calls and shove a dollar into a vending machine.

They'd be working on Jack for at least an hour.

I don't know if this makes any difference, but he wouldn't be in his late 30s.  He would have bee 53.  The triplets were born on his 36th birthday and they are "now" 17.  Plus, we have no idea how many phone calls Rebecca made.  She may have called half dozen different hotels and argued with each and every one of them.

[wallofsound]

This episode was just okay.   Really not that emotional or exciting for me.   I thought the intro scenes were riveting - I was panicking along with them that their house was on fire.   I just can’t comprehend why a call to 911 wasn’t placed.   All that standing around in the master bedroom was wasted time.    Even the kids ... I mean, they were 17, 18 years old ... why couldn’t they be instructed to open their windows and jump into jacks arms or something?   Back and forth in the hallway, dragging a mattress down the hall?   Still no phone call was placed.  I don’t know.   

There is no way in hell I would have allowed my husband to re-enter that house for the dog.   Maybe if only part of the house was on fire, but that entire house was ablaze.   It was just stupid.  I would have turned to Kate and told her to shut it.     And don’t get me started on the sack of mementos.   

There was no sense of urgency post fire.   Rebecca is going to drop the kids off and THEN take jack to the hospital?  They all should have went directly to the ER to be checked for smoke inhalation.  I would have insisted on it even if that numsy EMT didn’t suggest it.  People get rushed to the ER for tons of dumb shit - wouldn’t this situation be a no brainer? 

Poor kevin.   He must feel so disconnected.   He missed the fire, the emotional exit of jack from the blaze, and then was informed after the fact of his dads death. By his sister no less.  No wonder he and his mom have had a strained relationship.   He does not have that shared experience and is always treated like an after thought.  

Tess.  I’m sorry, but I don’t care about her as a child, let alone an adult.   

[ShadowFacts]

51 minutes ago, JudyObscure said:

We've talked about Kate's ongoing grief and discussed whether she's been wallowing or not -- but what about her actual behavior during the fire?  Am I the only one who wanted to yell at her to get a grip?  Kate was 17, not nine, old enough to know that the entire family was in a life or death crisis and it might just be a good time to obey her father for once.  That struggling with him and refusing to cross the hall to the other bedroom was a big time waster, yet it was certainly  enough time for Kate to see that the flames were coming up the stairs. 

When she was on the lawn screaming at her father to save her dog I wanted Rebecca to turn and slap her.  Kate was old enough to know that she was asking her father to risk his life for her dog and I think that was just plain wrong.  I love my dogs. I got an Irish Setter puppy for my third birthday and he was still the best thing in my world when I was 17, but I know I would not have screamed at my father to go back for him in a fire. I would probably have reminded him of where the dog was but left it to my father to decide how great the risk was.

   Rebecca was also at fault for assuming the role of a helpless female  through the entire thing. At that moment on the lawn she should have shut Kate up.  Lastly Jack, should have simply refused Kate's orders.  He was the grown-up.  He should have gotten himself to safety and explained to Kate that as heartbreaking as it was to leave the dog behind, it would have been wrong for him to risk his life for the dog.  He is the sole support of a family. 

We say our dogs are members of the family, but as much as we love them we really usually don't value them in the same  way we do our human family members.  If the dog had died would the family still be holding memorial rituals every Super Bowl Sunday? The short life span of a dog is another factor to consider, the dog probably only had a few years left at best, while Jack could have had 40 more years.  I'm sorry if that sounds heartless but those are things every human should keep in mind before running into flames for their pet. 

Jack was acting true to form -- anything for his Katy Girl.  He has also been shown to be impulsive, and that's what he was apparently being when he took extra time to gather up mementos.  That whole angle was unrealistic, Kate said the dog was sleeping downstairs, so he went down there when it was previously too dangerous, and came out the front door.  It was all designed so Kate could think all these years that it was her fault.  Although in real life, people do make this calculus and go back in for pets.  In our area awhile back a firefighter got all of the people out of a home, then went back in and saved a cat.  It was maybe not received well by the guy's boss back at the firehouse, it was probably against protocol. 

[movingtargetgal]

Having read the pass nine pages of this board I am once again amazed by how this show brings up so much emotion for us viewers.  So many of us have shared their stories of grieving those they have lost, myself included.  I think they need to rename this show "This is ALL of Us".  

Also, we the viewers, are really into candy bars.  :)  

[JudyObscure]

18 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

Also, we the viewers, are really into candy bars.  :)  

LOL! I think the Mars bar had more dedicated posts than Jack.

[cardigirl]

2 hours ago, cameron said:

What doesn't make sense to me is why they didn't use the windows in the individual rooms to get out instead of running through a burning house.

 

1 hour ago, debraran said:

In perfect world, they would have discussed that, some windows were above porch (like my son's room) and it's easier to get out and on ground without big jump. I remember a firefighter teaching us to hang back in the 60's,when I was in school, the drop would be less, how to crawl, etc.  It's a scary time though, you panic but I hope the show opens up discussion on it for families.

I thought Jack did say that it was too high to get down to the ground from Kate's room, which is why they went back to his and Rebecca's room because there was a porch roof to climb out on. 

I was most surprised that the dog didn't wake them up. We never hear the dog bark until they are all out, which seems unrealistic to me. 

[SueB]

I read that link with the nurses who were live tweeting... man, the one who was like "He's gonna CODE!" (before it happened) gave me chills.  So, I go back to my silver lining .... millions watch This Is Us.  I hope the connection between "smoke inhalation" and "cardiac arrest" is made stronger in the average Joe's mind after this episode.  Because I don't think people without medical experience or some personal example necessarily connect the two.  And of course Hollywood usually doesn't help because we have the "hero" go into the burning building all the time. Bottom line PSA from "This is Us":  Don't discount smoke inhalation as just an irritant.

Death of Mr. Giggles: I don't think the parents (or really even Annie) had yet fully bonded with the lizard yet.  Plus I'm fairly certain Beth didn't mention that she stepped on Mr. Giggles to anyone except Randall.

Kate's recovery:  While I'm truly grateful with Toby in her life and how he's helped her to recover, I hope she eventually can see her selfworth in her own eyes.  Easier said than done (by like a country mile). But if Tony has another heart attack, that would be bad. Kate is JUST coming out of her depression a bit.  That needs time to grown.

Kevin's recovery:  Not gonna lie, Kevin sitting in meditation looked a little 'not Kevin' to me.  Is he embracing Buddism? I can see him doing that.  And I think it might be a good fit for his own develped sense of life.  Maybe his mind was just racing too much to calm down which is why it came across kinda funny.  But I was wondering if that was his approach towards the higher power?  In any case, I think Kevin is actually in a much better place than ever since we started the series.  Much work to do.

Randall's recovery:  I don't think Randall has yet to embrace why he does what he does.  His manic behavior is not healthy. I feel like he's avoiding dealing just as much.

Rebecca's recovery:  I think her rememberences are the best recovery of all.  But I do agree that the necklace must be something that she and Miguel have had to come to peace with.  I can see Miguel accepting it becuase he loved Jack as his best friend.  But I also feel like Miguel feels permanently like he's second place. It puts a sadness into their relationship for me.

[project90]

was Kevin plane models he did with Jack one things he saved?  I am doubtful but Kevin mentions throwing them out after his death

Edited February 6, 2018 by project90

[SunnyBeBe]

I hadn't planned to watch, but, ended up seeing part of it.  Can someone tell me why Kate insisted that she had to be the one to tell Kevin that his father was dead?

[Scarlett45]

11 minutes ago, SueB said:

Rebecca's recovery:  I think her rememberences are the best recovery of all.  But I do agree that the necklace must be something that she and Miguel have had to come to peace with.  I can see Miguel accepting it becuase he loved Jack as his best friend.  But I also feel like Miguel feels permanently like he's second place. It puts a sadness into their relationship for me.

I think Rebecca is in the most healthy place, the necklace doesn’t bother me, it’s not as if it was her wedding ring and she refused to wear the one from her wedding with Miguel.

Psychologically I think Rebecca is doing well because she and Jack had made amends when he died, had just had an afternoon of hot sex, and remembered why they fell in love. Also, Jack was her husband- and she has another, the kids will NEVER have another father. I’m not diminishing the pain of losing one’s partner but most of us only get one set of parents, and her relationship with Miguel now meets many (if not all) of the emotional needs her relationship with Jack did.

Second marriages (especially after the kids are grown and gone) often have a different vibe, they are more emotionally indulgent, less driven by romance/lust and less sustained by the trials of raising children together. They are often based on joy, shared interests, companionship and....steadiness? Miguel seems to be a steady influence in Rebecca’s life. She had been single for a decade before they reconnected on Facebook- had she not cared for him she wouldn’t have married him. 

I think he understands why she wears the necklace. 

[sarthaz]

On 2/4/2018 at 11:49 PM, mtlchick said:

So for those who said "It's because of the dog!" You were somewhat right.  RIP Papa Pearson.

Mandy Moore has her Emmy submission in hand with this one.  She was stellar.  

I can only imagine the Mars company getting the script saying "So...Twix, Mars or M+Ms.  What candy are you ok with that fans will fully reject because that's how Becca will learn the truth?"

GAH!  This show.  
 

Becca has always felt like the weak link on this show, but Mandy Moore killed it in this episode.  Bravo.

[Mrs. DuRona]

1 hour ago, wallofsound said:

I just can’t comprehend why a call to 911 wasn’t placed.

From what we've seen, there's only one phone in the house, in the kitchen.  Chances are, in 1998, they didn't have cellphones.  They were just beginning to be somewhat affordable, so chances are they didn't have a cellphone.  I'm assuming a neighbor called 911, as they wouldn't have been able to given where they were in the house.

[PRgal]

8 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

From what we've seen, there's only one phone in the house, in the kitchen.  Chances are, in 1998, they didn't have cellphones.  They were just beginning to be somewhat affordable, so chances are they didn't have a cellphone.  I'm assuming a neighbor called 911, as they wouldn't have been able to given where they were in the house.

Was having only one phone in the house still standard in '98?  Most people I knew had extensions - at least two (one upstairs and one downstairs).  Most homes with teenagers - especially a teenage girl - would have had more than two (because the teenage girl would have asked for one IN HER ROOM).  

[Clanstarling]

42 minutes ago, project90 said:

was Kevin plane models he did with Jack one things he saved?  I am doubtful but Kevin mentions throwing them out after his death

Maybe the basement wasn't as damaged as the rest of the house. The fire was racing upstairs, and maybe the fire trucks arrived in time to stop it before the basement was fully involved.

26 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Psychologically I think Rebecca is doing well because she and Jack had made amends when he died, had just had an afternoon of hot sex, and remembered why they fell in love. Also, Jack was her husband- and she has another, the kids will NEVER have another father. I’m not diminishing the pain of losing one’s partner but most of us only get one set of parents, and her relationship with Miguel now meets many (if not all) of the emotional needs her relationship with Jack did.

Poor Randall has lost two fathers now, though William was only with him for a short time. They haven't really addressed it, but I'd imagine Kevin and Kate might be just a wee bit jealous that his bio father came back into his life.

1 minute ago, PRgal said:

Was having only one phone in the house still standard in '98?  Most people I knew had extensions - at least two (one upstairs and one downstairs).  Most homes with teenagers - especially a teenage girl - would have had more than two (because the teenage girl would have asked for one IN HER ROOM).  

Well, I had an extension in my room back in the early 70's (teenage girl). Again, it's not like they were in the dark ages. Not many mobile phones, but plenty of extensions. 

[Mrs. DuRona]

2 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Was having only one phone in the house still standard in '98?  Most people I knew had extensions - at least two (one upstairs and one downstairs).  Most homes with teenagers - especially a teenage girl - would have had more than two (because the teenage girl would have asked for one IN HER ROOM).

Not necessarily, no.  I mean, we had upstairs extensions in the late '80s.  But based on what we've seen of the Pearsons, they only had one phone.  Also, the priority at that point was get the hell out, not call 911.  

[Katy M]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

We've talked about Kate's ongoing grief and discussed whether she's been wallowing or not -- but what about her actual behavior during the fire?  Am I the only one who wanted to yell at her to get a grip?  Kate was 17, not nine, old enough to know that the entire family was in a life or death crisis and it might just be a good time to obey her father for once.  That struggling with him and refusing to cross the hall to the other bedroom was a big time waster, yet it was certainly  enough time for Kate to see that the flames were coming up the stairs. 

When she was on the lawn screaming at her father to save her dog I wanted Rebecca to turn and slap her.  Kate was old enough to know that she was asking her father to risk his life for her dog and I think that was just plain wrong.  I love my dogs. I got an Irish Setter puppy for my third birthday and he was still the best thing in my world when I was 17, but I know I would not have screamed at my father to go back for him in a fire. I would probably have reminded him of where the dog was but left it to my father to decide how great the risk was.

First of all, Kate wasn't struggling against her father to be willfully disobedient.  She was scared. When you are scared, you don't always act rationally.  SEcond of all, she never screamed at her father to save her dog.  She yelled to her dog to come out.  She never once told Jack to go back in for the dog. He did that on his own

 

55 minutes ago, SueB said:

I read that link with the nurses who were live tweeting... man, the one who was like "He's gonna CODE!" (before it happened) gave me chills. 

That may have been more impressive had we not already known for a fact that he was going to die that night.

 

23 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

From what we've seen, there's only one phone in the house, in the kitchen.  Chances are, in 1998, they didn't have cellphones.  They were just beginning to be somewhat affordable, so chances are they didn't have a cellphone.  I'm assuming a neighbor called 911, as they wouldn't have been able to given where they were in the house.

Plus, we were always told in case of a fire, get out and THEN call the fire department (before 911 existed). 

[project90]

3 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Rebecca said she just talked to Kevin on the phone, that's how she knew for sure he wasn't home, so I assumed they had a phone in their bedroom.  I too wondered why no one was calling 911. 

 

we see that phone call in the episode before when she asks Kevin if he wants talk to Jack. The phone call takes place in the kitchen

Edited February 6, 2018 by project90

[JudyObscure]

4 minutes ago, Mrs. DuRona said:

Also, the priority at that point was get the hell out, not call 911.  

I see it that way, too.  We seemed to be watching in real time and if Jack had called 911 first thing, the fire truck probably still wouldn't have been there before they were all out.  Of course if there had been an upstairs extension in the master bedroom, as was common since the sixties, Rebecca could have been calling while Jack was dragging Kate and a mattress down the hall -- but that would have required Rebecca to do something.

[gonzosgirrl]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Rebecca said she just talked to Kevin on the phone, that's how she knew for sure he wasn't home, so I assumed they had a phone in their bedroom.  I too wondered why no one was calling 911. 

In the 90s we bought these cordless phone sets that usually came with two charging bases and 3-4 handsets.  Or maybe it was just me, being a Costco shopper.   But even when corded phones were the only type, we had more than one.

I think Rebecca was in the kitchen when she talked with Kevin, 'just' being relative.

59 minutes ago, SueB said:

Kevin's recovery:  Not gonna lie, Kevin sitting in meditation looked a little 'not Kevin' to me.  Is he embracing Buddism? I can see him doing that.  And I think it might be a good fit for his own develped sense of life.  Maybe his mind was just racing too much to calm down which is why it came across kinda funny.  But I was wondering if that was his approach towards the higher power?  In any case, I think Kevin is actually in a much better place than ever since we started the series.  Much work to do.

I'd have to watch again, but it seemed that even Kevin had a little shrug of 'wtf am I doing?' when we see him abandon the meditation position.

[Katy M]

2 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

Rebecca said she just talked to Kevin on the phone, that's how she knew for sure he wasn't home, so I assumed they had a phone in their bedroom.  I too wondered why no one was calling 911. 

In the 90s we bought these cordless phone sets that usually came with two charging bases and 3-4 handsets.  Or maybe it was just me, being a Costco shopper.   But even when corded phones were the only type, we had more than one.

I think she was talking about the phone call earlier in the kitchen.  It doesn't really make sense that she could have "just" talked to him, as in a few minutes earlier, when we know that he and Sophie snuck out for a party. 

We had a one story house.  We had one phone in the basement (in my mom's office) and one in the kitchen. When my sister was a teenager, she got one in her room.  But, I don't find it at all odd that Jack and Rebecca didn't have a phone in their room.  Not everyone did. 

[pawsodoom]

3 hours ago, Higgins said:

If Jack had what was termed by the doctor "a widow maker" he would have had that massive MI soon anyway, That condition is caused by coronary artery disease and happens when there is complete occlusion which results in massive muscle tissue death He was a ticking time bomb. 

No code is abandoned that quickly. 

Exactly. A "widow maker" is what my dad died from (and my husband almost died from). It is not caused that quickly due to smoke inhalation. I realize the term "widow maker" was used for dramatic effect, but still. 

 

1 hour ago, wallofsound said:

There was no sense of urgency post fire.   Rebecca is going to drop the kids off and THEN take jack to the hospital?  They all should have went directly to the ER to be checked for smoke inhalation.  I would have insisted on it even if that numsy EMT didn’t suggest it.  People get rushed to the ER for tons of dumb shit - wouldn’t this situation be a no brainer? 

What I couldn't understand is why Jack wasn't taken to the hospital via ambulance. IT WAS THERE. If he inhaled that much smoke how was he not forced to go to the hospital by the EMT? I was in a car accident and bumped my head. They strapped me down to a backboard and made me to go the hospital to get checked out. I know this isn't a medical show, but the writers seem to play fast and loose with medical stuff. 

 

Despite the unbelievable parts of the story above, the gut punch for me was when Rebecca said she had to ruin her kids lives by telling them their father died. I then realized what it must have been like for my mom when she had to tell me about my dad's passing. My reaction was far more dramatic than Kate and Randall's reaction (looking back, I'm embarrassed by the way I reacted because I know it made it harder for my mom, but I was devastated). Their lives weren't "ruined," but it was altered forever. 

[gonzosgirrl]

Just now, Winston9-DT3 said:

But if you're just standing in a bedroom waiting for your knight in shining armor, wouldn't you call?  Or once you hit the ground, run to a neighbor's to call?  I guess they didn't stand there long before they heard sirens but I would've expected Jack's orders to Randall, first one down, to be "run next door and have them call 911".  

I'm pretty sure we could already hear the sirens by the time they made it to the ground. Besides that, they are watching their father/husband standing in front of a burning window, debating going back in - I think they were too involved with that to have the 'sense' to run away right then.

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But if you're just standing in a bedroom waiting for your knight in shining armor, wouldn't you call?  Or once you hit the ground, run to a neighbor's to call?  I guess they didn't stand there long before they heard sirens but I would've expected Jack's orders to Randall, first one down, to be "run next door and have them call 911".  

Sure, if you had a phone in the room.  But, we have no evidence of that.  It wouldn't have made much sense to go down to the kitchen where the fire started to make a phone call.  You're right about running to the neighbors, but I guess nobody wanted to leave before they knew Jack was coming out.

2 minutes ago, pawsodoom said:

Despite the unbelievable parts of the story above, the gut punch for me was when Rebecca said she had to ruin her kids lives by telling them their father died. I then realized what it must have been like for my mom when she had to tell me about my dad's passing. My reaction was far more dramatic than Kate and Randall's reaction (looking back, I'm embarrassed by the way I reacted because I know it made it harder for my mom, but I was devastated). Their lives weren't "ruined," but it was altered forever. 

Don't be embarrassed.  There's no wrong way to respond to the news of a death and your mother understood.

[JudyObscure]

6 minutes ago, Katy M said:

SEcond of all, she never screamed at her father to save her dog.  She yelled to her dog to come out.  She never once told Jack to go back in for the dog.

Okay Katy, I concede that one.  I'd better go watch it again.  

[Lady Calypso]

2 hours ago, JudyObscure said:

We've talked about Kate's ongoing grief and discussed whether she's been wallowing or not -- but what about her actual behavior during the fire?  Am I the only one who wanted to yell at her to get a grip?  Kate was 17, not nine, old enough to know that the entire family was in a life or death crisis and it might just be a good time to obey her father for once.  That struggling with him and refusing to cross the hall to the other bedroom was a big time waster, yet it was certainly  enough time for Kate to see that the flames were coming up the stairs. 

When she was on the lawn screaming at her father to save her dog I wanted Rebecca to turn and slap her.  Kate was old enough to know that she was asking her father to risk his life for her dog and I think that was just plain wrong.  I love my dogs. I got an Irish Setter puppy for my third birthday and he was still the best thing in my world when I was 17, but I know I would not have screamed at my father to go back for him in a fire. I would probably have reminded him of where the dog was but left it to my father to decide how great the risk was.

   Rebecca was also at fault for assuming the role of a helpless female  through the entire thing. At that moment on the lawn she should have shut Kate up.  Lastly Jack, should have simply refused Kate's orders.  He was the grown-up.  He should have gotten himself to safety and explained to Kate that as heartbreaking as it was to leave the dog behind, it would have been wrong for him to risk his life for the dog.  He is the sole support of a family. 

We say our dogs are members of the family, but as much as we love them we really usually don't value them in the same  way we do our human family members.  If the dog had died would the family still be holding memorial rituals every Super Bowl Sunday? The short life span of a dog is another factor to consider, the dog probably only had a few years left at best, while Jack could have had 40 more years.  I'm sorry if that sounds heartless but those are things every human should keep in mind before running into flames for their pet. 

I won't fault Kate for how she acted during the fire. Even a seventeen year old can be terrified and frozen in fear. She also could have been in shock, much like Rebecca. Also, Kate never screamed for Jack to save Louie; all she was doing was calling for her dog to come out, and that's when Jack ran back in to get him. So, I don't put any fault on Kate at all; that was 100% Jack's choice and Kate never asked him to go back in the house for the dog. I'm 24 years old and I can't imagine how I'd react in a life or death situation. Some people would stay calm and take charge; others, probably not so much. There was no time for Kate to collect herself or think things through logically or reasonably. She's still a kid in the end, even if she's not nine years old. She hasn't been through life or death situations. In fact, the only one that has would have been Jack, which does kind of make sense as to why he was able to take charge quickly. 

I also understand that this scene also needed to fit the Saint Jack story, where he heroically saves everyone. Which, by the way, is unfortunate. It would have been much better for Rebecca to get herself and Randall out onto the roof, at least so they would get some fresh air to breathe in.  

But Jack's the only one at fault for running back in for the dog. That house was on serious fire. I don't know how he made it all the way downstairs. 

2 hours ago, wallofsound said:

This episode was just okay.   Really not that emotional or exciting for me.   I thought the intro scenes were riveting - I was panicking along with them that their house was on fire.   I just can’t comprehend why a call to 911 wasn’t placed.   All that standing around in the master bedroom was wasted time.    Even the kids ... I mean, they were 17, 18 years old ... why couldn’t they be instructed to open their windows and jump into jacks arms or something?   Back and forth in the hallway, dragging a mattress down the hall?   Still no phone call was placed.  I don’t know.   

There is no way in hell I would have allowed my husband to re-enter that house for the dog.   Maybe if only part of the house was on fire, but that entire house was ablaze.   It was just stupid.  I would have turned to Kate and told her to shut it.     And don’t get me started on the sack of mementos.   

There was no sense of urgency post fire.   Rebecca is going to drop the kids off and THEN take jack to the hospital?  They all should have went directly to the ER to be checked for smoke inhalation.  I would have insisted on it even if that numsy EMT didn’t suggest it.  People get rushed to the ER for tons of dumb shit - wouldn’t this situation be a no brainer? 

Poor kevin.   He must feel so disconnected.   He missed the fire, the emotional exit of jack from the blaze, and then was informed after the fact of his dads death. By his sister no less.  No wonder he and his mom have had a strained relationship.   He does not have that shared experience and is always treated like an after thought.  

Tess.  I’m sorry, but I don’t care about her as a child, let alone an adult.   

Well, when you literally wake up to a burning inferno, I'd imagine the first thing you're thinking about is getting everyone out, rather than wasting time to find a phone and call 911. Plus, there's a high chance that neighbours would have been calling themselves. I know that if I woke up to my house on fire, my first priority is getting out and making sure all my family members were out. Also, I recognize that they didn't have a whole lot of time to really think things through. Sometimes, there's no time to think logically. You just have to kind of go and do it. I imagine Rebecca and Randall were also too much in shock to fully comprehend what was going on. I've heard of stories of house fires and tragic deaths that happen, and sometimes, my first thought is why people couldn't break the window and jump out. But sometimes, in those situations, it just isn't logical. 

Though I agree on the sack. Come on, man! Your house is on fire! Don't stop for a bazillion things! Again, that was more for TV storytelling purposes than actual attempted realism. I'm sure some people might try to grab a thing or two on the way out. I don't think they typically go for a whole bunch of stuff AND a dog. That's precious minutes wasted in a burning house. 

Also, yes to everyone needing to be checked out at the hospital. I feel like Fogelman needed to do a bit more research. I think his thought process was get Jack to survive the fire, only to die by heart attack alone in hospital room while Rebecca is mere feet away, and he didn't quite think of how to get from point A to B smoothly.

Rebecca should have been the one to tell Kevin about what happened. Kate shouldn't have had the burden to do that. It was her choice, sure, but she just found out her dad died. She was in shock, feeling guilty and her emotions were all over the place. 

[SueB]

3 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Rebecca should have been the one to tell Kevin about what happened. Kate shouldn't have had the burden to do that. It was her choice, sure, but she just found out her dad died. She was in shock, feeling guilty and her emotions were all over the place. 

I think Rebecca was in shot and what I think she understood was that Sophie and Kevin had snuck out of the house.  So she didn't know where Kevin was.  Then Rebecca goes to see the house and has her breakdown moment when she "stepped out for 2 mins).  During that time Kate figured out where Kevin was and ran to tell him.  Kate probably should have waited for Rebecca but I can see it in Kate's personality to run to Kevin.  So, I don't blame Rebecca and I understand Kate's response.

The scenes get jumbled at the end. Which is kinda consistent with how life is during a crisis. But I'm pretty sure that was the sequence.

[SunnyBeBe]

52 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I think what they're going for is the bio-twins have this special link.  It's been more said than shown, though.  And I agree with many that for anyone but Rebecca to tell any of the kids is wrong.

I would say the same for the special Jack/Kate thing.  I think they envisioned this adorable father/daughter bond for the ages.  What I see is a doting, overindulgent father who seems to be trying to compensate for his kid's weight issue and a spoiled, self-involved woman who thinks the world revolves around her.  

Got it.  I just wanted to make sure there wasn't something earlier in the episode that made it imperative that Kate break the news to Kevin.  So, this was just something she made up in her mind that she had to do, by virtue of her being daddy's perceived favorite and special connection with Kevin. 

[project90]

6 minutes ago, SueB said:

I think Rebecca was in shot and what I think she understood was that Sophie and Kevin had snuck out of the house.  So she didn't know where Kevin was.  Then Rebecca goes to see the house and has her breakdown moment when she "stepped out for 2 mins).  During that time Kate figured out where Kevin was and ran to tell him.  Kate probably should have waited for Rebecca but I can see it in Kate's personality to run to Kevin.  So, I don't blame Rebecca and I understand Kate's response.

The scenes get jumbled at the end. Which is kinda consistent with how life is during a crisis. But I'm pretty sure that was the sequence.

also it the moment Rebeca steps out for 2 minutes she says it her who has to tell him. Randall to upset to argue/try and stop her not that he would have listen if he did

[Scarlett45]

49 minutes ago, Clanstarling said:

Poor Randall has lost two fathers now, though William was only with him for a short time. They haven't really addressed it, but I'd imagine Kevin and Kate might be just a wee bit jealous that his bio father came back into his life.

I can see that- I agree. 

[txhorns79]

Quote

What I couldn't understand is why Jack wasn't taken to the hospital via ambulance. IT WAS THERE. If he inhaled that much smoke how was he not forced to go to the hospital by the EMT? I was in a car accident and bumped my head. They strapped me down to a backboard and made me to go the hospital to get checked out. I know this isn't a medical show, but the writers seem to play fast and loose with medical stuff. 

It may have felt like you were being made to go, but the reality is that you can always refuse treatment, even if it is a terrible idea on your part, so long as you are capable of doing so.  What would happen is you'd have to sign a form stating that you were refusing treatment against medical advice and they would let you go. 

[gonzosgirrl]

28 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

I was curious so I rewatched.  They stood on the ground for a full two minutes without any sirens, before the scene cut to the opening credits break, though part of that segment the audio was muted.  But when the audio comes back at the end of the scene, there is no siren noise over their reunion with Jack in front of the house.  (Actually, I see now the closed captioning toward the end of the scene while the audio is just dramatic music says, "sirens approaching" and "Louie barking", but the only non-music sound they added in was the barking.)

I know everyone reacts differently in a crisis but my first instinct is to call 911.  I know when I see a car accident occur, I immediately reach for my phone.  I want professional advice because I'm not in the field.  

I actually was really touched by the teen Kate actor's performance during the fire, but I have a daughter that age so I have real fears about these sort of emergencies, like all parents do.  

I think Jack going back in would've been less ludicrous if the house wasn't quite so engulfed in flames.  But I think they err toward the sensational on this show, often at the expense of logic and realistic actions.  

Thanks for checking!

I'm 99.9% sure if I saw a house on fire or a car accident, I would immediately go for my phone, too*. What I'm not so sure of is what I would do if it were my house on fire (with my family involved) or me in the accident. Shock, adrenaline, fear - they all have an affect on reactions and reaction time. I know what I think I'd do, what I'd like to do, but whether or not I could? No way to know until it happens.

*Though I think part of that is the ubiquity of the cell phone in our lives now, that wasn't a factor in 1998.

[ShadowFacts]

57 minutes ago, Winston9-DT3 said:

But if you're just standing in a bedroom waiting for your knight in shining armor, wouldn't you call?  Or once you hit the ground, run to a neighbor's to call?  I guess they didn't stand there long before they heard sirens but I would've expected Jack's orders to Randall, first one down, to be "run next door and have them call 911".  

Ah, I don't watch that close, I was making a risotto throughout this episode.  I will forgive the not calling.  But it feels like they go to some lengths to make Jack the hero and Rebecca helpless.  Not having a bedroom phone seems slightly odd to me.  

Rebecca seemed to have time to have made a 911 call, so I'm going with there was no phone in the bedroom, which is believable to me.  People weren't always so in need of being near a phone and answering it immediately as they are now.  After they were on the ground they were in a panic about Jack getting out, they couldn't take their eyes off of that whole situation.  I think that's believable also.  There's a lot of confusion and being frozen and not acting the way you normally would in a traumatic emergency.  I just really don't like Jack going downstairs to get the dog and memorabilia when it was too dangerous to go that way initially.  That makes him look foolhardy.  He made the right calculation in getting out through the upstairs window, then reverses that to put himself in more danger.

[txhorns79]

Quote

Rebecca seemed to have time to have made a 911 call, so I'm going with there was no phone in the bedroom, which is believable to me.  People weren't always so in need of being near a phone and answering it immediately as they are now.  After they were on the ground they were in a panic about Jack getting out, they couldn't take their eyes off of that whole situation.

Honestly, I think the family would very much be outliers in 1998 if the parents did not have a phone in their bedroom.  It's not about needing to be near a phone, so much as it would be inconvenient and annoying to have to go downstairs to the kitchen every time the phone rang.  Also, having an extension in the bedroom gives you privacy that you would not have if the phone was located in a common area of the home.   

[Wouldofshouldof]

18 hours ago, Empress1 said:

Milky Ways are the superior candy bar for that reason

Empress, ever had a Milky Way Midnight?  It's my favorite candy bar, along with York Peppermint Patties.  I have both in my desk drawer right now!

[Katy M]

10 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, I think the family would very much be outliers in 1998 if the parents did not have a phone in their bedroom.  It's not about needing to be near a phone, so much as it would be inconvenient and annoying to have to go downstairs to the kitchen every time the phone rang.  Also, having an extension in the bedroom gives you privacy that you would not have if the phone was located in a common area of the home.   

Sure, but these outliers did exist and I don't remember ever seeing a phone in their room.  My parents have never had a phone in their room. Yeah, they're a few years older, but not that much, my dad is probably 5 or 6 years older than Jack. 

[ShadowFacts]

I was not a fan of how Rebecca told Miguel to take a walk if he had to so the kids wouldn't see him upset.  What? What else would he be?  And how she had to be strong for her kids now, and that apparently meant no crying in front of them.  I never like that way of trying to not have your kids see you feeling x, y or z.  It's not helpful. 

9 minutes ago, txhorns79 said:

Honestly, I think the family would very much be outliers in 1998 if the parents did not have a phone in their bedroom.  It's not about needing to be near a phone, so much as it would be inconvenient and annoying to have to go downstairs to the kitchen every time the phone rang.  Also, having an extension in the bedroom gives you privacy that you would not have if the phone was located in a common area of the home.   

They might have been outliers, but that's always possible with just about anything.  For example, most people have internet access, not everybody.  Lots of people have DVR, I don't.  I didn't have a smartphone until fairly recently.  Some of us are outliers by nature ;). 

[Katy M]

1 minute ago, ShadowFacts said:

I didn't have a smartphone until fairly recently

I still don't have a Smartphone.  And I'm alive.  the lack of it hasn't killed me.  Whoo-Hoo. 

[JudyObscure]

No one in our ( 3 adults)  family has ever had a cell phone of any kind.  We have a landline hanging on the kitchen wall. Period.

(I can hear you guys saying, "That explains so much.")

[cardigirl]

10 minutes ago, ShadowFacts said:

I was not a fan of how Rebecca told Miguel to take a walk if he had to so the kids wouldn't see him upset.  What? What else would he be?  And how she had to be strong for her kids now, and that apparently meant no crying in front of them.  I never like that way of trying to not have your kids see you feeling x, y or z.  It's not helpful. 

 

I think she was mostly just trying to not completely fall apart in front of them, to make them feel safe enough to fall apart if they needed to.  And she was giving him time to process the bad news himself.  

I was surprised the hospital let her leave and drive off after Jack died. Surely they would have called someone for her?  A minister, a family member? I don't think they would have thought she was safe to be driving.

I think we will see more of Rebecca's grief (and saw a bit in the car and the hospital) but losing complete control in front of her children would not serve them well, in my opinion.