S01.E12: eXtraction; S01.E13: X-roads

[Bort]

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Dr. Campbell attends an anti-mutant summit, attempting to take the Hound program national, and some of the team at Mutant HQ goes on a dangerous mission to stop his efforts.

and

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As the first season closes, Polaris learns more about her past and makes a crucial decision that could have impactful consequences. Meanwhile, the Mutant HQ comes under attack and, with everything to lose, relationships are put to the test and alliances shift.

[stealinghome]

Now that Lorna has gone full Magneto, all the show has to do is kill Reed and then we can have Caitlin/Marcos! Moyer really is miscast in the role.

Andy can keep walking right out of the show. He’s so annoying. The worst thing is that his family will inevitably take him back and give him big hugs after he’s gone and killed a bunch of people and suddenly realized that breaking bad isn’t all it’s cracked up to be and cries a few big tears.

I do like the idea of blowing up the Underground and soft rebooting for next season, but worry that the show’s cast of thousands problem will be even more pronounced.

[Lantern7]

Looking back, has anything really changed? I mean, aside from Lorna making shit a million times worse and Andy designing his "My Grandparents Were Right" t-shirt. But hey, we got an "M" over a circle, representing a "classic" X-Men story, so the next 8-9 months are gonna fly by so quickly!

In all seriousness, this is a good show, even if the heavy hitters from canon aren't showing up. But bear in mind that I'm the type that enjoys Gotham, albeit for the camp factor.

[janeta]

Because my cable company is a POS, the digital signal dropped out at the end of the first ep and it took me a few minutes to hunt up the analog channel. Can someone give me a one sentence synopsis of what happend at the Humans First conference? Thx.

[talktalk]

Who else felt great when Lorna tore that stupid plane off the sky? Andy is such a bad ass, I wish his sister would get on board! 

[Lady Calypso]

I guess not a bad way to pave the way for season 2. But if the show hadn't have been renewed, that's one hell of a way to end the season, which would have been somewhat unsatisfying, even with the dead Dr. Campbell and a dead Senator.

I totally expected some mutants to have died. I honestly expected one or two of the Frost sisters to die as well. 

I was fine with Lorna tearing the plane apart. The whole mutants vs humans war is too far gone to stop now. There's no way for them to keep the peace and have their side survive. However, she did cause things to get worse by killing a Senator, so she will have to deal with the consequences. Also, how does she know that Campbell's associates won't pick up where he left off?

It's not a bad show, per say, but I hope they correct some mistakes for season 2. More mutants and showing their powers, please. I loved seeing more mutants showing off their ability here. Also, less Strucker family. Now that Andy left with Lorna and the others, there will probably be more action. Also, don't think I didn't notice that Caitlin/Marcos hug. Now to only get rid of Boring Ass Reed... I would have preferred Caitlin to be the secret mutant, in all honesty. 

[SimoneS]

Good, not great finale. It did capture what annoys me about the mutants, their inability to compromise with each other. No, the answer isn't to go to war or kill humans, if only because there are so many more of them and they need them to keep producing mutant offspring, but the answer is not to run and hide which only makes them look like easy picking for Trask and Sentinel Services. Rather the mutants should stay united and show humanity how dangerous they could be, thereby forcing them to the negotiating table to recognize mutant rights. Of course, this would still mean being vigilant about the activities of Trask, Sentinel Services, and bigoted politicians.

[thuganomics85]

All I could think of during the scenes when the characters were changing into their guard uniforms was if it was actually scripted who got to keep their shirt on and who got to be shirtless/in their bra, or if they had the pairs flip a coin, and both Blair Redford and Jamie Chung lost their respected bouts?  The important questions, obviously!

I guess it was a solid enough of a season finale, even if it was pretty predictable how it was all going to go down.  Lorna ends up finally succumbing to her violent urges and blows up Campbell and evil senator in a plane, and then joins Esme and her group, along with a few other Mutant Underground folks.  Including Andy.  Yep, little angsty Andy has finally had enough of this shit and is ready to start dropping humans like they're yesterday's garbage!  So, it's a good old pitting brother against sister, lover against lover, etc.  Ah, family squabbling!  Only with badass mutant powers!

So, Jace sees that he is likely going to be the scapegoat for everything that went down, so he bails on Sentinel Services.  What in the hell are they going to do with his character, now?  He will clearly keep hating mutants so is he just going be some kind of anti-mutant assassin now?  What's is deal going forward?

Lorna's totally Magneto's kid, right?  She just needs to crossover to Legion and meet David, and that will really get the drama started!

[Bats27]

That's been the issue with Magneto and The Brotherhood, you can understand their motivations most of the time. However, often their methods just make it EASIER for their enemies to paint all mutants as "evil violent monsters" and use it as justification for more persecution. Also it tends to turn public opinion as well.

I suspect that similar things will happen here as well.

[TrininisaScorp]

Anyone who behaved like a dick = Def moving to the Brotherhood; I was a little surprised Sage went too.  I guess my issue with Lorna in general is that she's always been a bit too much "tell, but not show" when it comes to why the MU, especially Marcos and John, thinks she is so amazing (aside from her powers...which actually are amazing).  I rolled my eyes when she came swaggering in with her leather jacket and black lipstick.  Take it down a notch, dear.  I'm also a little annoyed that Lorna has unilaterally decided what to do with their baby.  She's made Marcos' choice for him and that's kind of messed up.  

I don't know what my problem is with Andy, except that he's just THE WORST.  I hate wanting to smack a kid.....but, here we are.  "I'm the only one proud of our family legacy"...shut it.  Your grands killed a TON of people and were destructive to anyone they touched.   He's playing with the big boys now, so I wonder if he can learn that their way isn't THE way.

The Charles/Xmen vs Erik/Brotherhood dynamic was clearly handled better in First Class, but I see what they are aiming for.  While I can understand why they are doing what they are doing, their methods are so over the top and broad that they are going to get further maligned and the MU will get caught in that crossfire.  I'm a believer that violence only creates more violence.

Shallow note:  Thunderbird can keep changing his shirt as many times as his little heart desires.  Good lawd.  And I don't care that Jamie Chung is a sucky actress, as long as Clarice puts a smile on Thunderbird's face.  That is an attractive damn man. /shallow note

[talktalk]

Disagree about Andy, I think he is THE BEST. Kid got skills and courage, way to go!

[stealinghome]

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Also, don't think I didn't notice that Caitlin/Marcos hug. Now to only get rid of Boring Ass Reed... I would have preferred Caitlin to be the secret mutant, in all honesty. 

Yeah, the show backed the wrong horse on that one. Caitlin as the secret mutant would've been more interesting story-wise, and Acker is way more compelling than Moyer.

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It's not a bad show, per say, but I hope they correct some mistakes for season 2. More mutants and showing their powers, please. I loved seeing more mutants showing off their ability here.

Yeah, I actually think this show does extended action sequences fairly well--the fight where they first discovered Pulse/the Hounds was a great example--so I wish they'd do more of them.

The acting is what it is at this point, but for next season, I want the show to a) have better pacing on the overall narrative, b) less repeated story or character beats/character interactions, and c) to integrate the ensemble better. The shake-up should help with this to some extent, in that it ought to enable the Strucker family to mingle with the Mutant Underground people more. Caitlin and Lauren are best with Marcos and Johnny, and Lorna's going to be the Emperor to Andy's Vader, it seems. Keep the focus on two core groups instead of having like six little groups. Really, I just want the writers to be more imaginative and take more chances.

It won't happen, but while I'm at it, I wouldn't mind if Blink and Jace took a hike between seasons along with Andy and Reed. They're part of the cast bloat imo.

Edited January 16, 2018 by stealinghome

[Proteus]

So glad to see their are other Caitln/Marcos shippers. LOL.

Caitlin shooting guns is what I need.

Im so glad all three Frost sisters survived.

I love Lorna gong full on Magneto.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Proteus

[Mysteris]

Nice finale.

Can't say as I blame Lorna for blowing up that plane, though I am surprised the show had the courage to show a U.S. Senator getting killed. I think Lorna has been building towards this all season so it was good to get some payoff there. As for Andy going with her and the Frosts, well, that's been building too.

 

I did like the part where Marcos stepped up and told the triplet that she'd shut her damn mouth or he'd kill her.  Speaking of Marcos, I do feel bad for him that Lorna's basically taken their kid off on her crusade.

Bye Jace! Go away and don't come back! He adds nothing to the show and is an active detriment.

[Finis Terre]

I feel that Marcos and Caitlin have connected from the very beginning and I don't necessarily mean in a sexual way. These are two people who share something, understand each other and don't fight against each other. Perfect pairing. ;) Can they at least be close friends in season 2? Especially now that Lorna is a gratuitous bitch/bot/fashionista and Reed remains boring? The writers so far completely failed Caitlin, so they might just as well start writing her as an individual, not a concerned mommy/wife.

Edited January 16, 2018 by Finis Terre

[Bats27]

1 hour ago, Mysteris said:

Nice finale.

Can't say as I blame Lorna for blowing up that plane, though I am surprised the show had the courage to show a U.S. Senator getting killed. I think Lorna has been building towards this all season so it was good to get some payoff there. As for Andy going with her and the Frosts, well, that's been building too.

 

I did like the part where Marcos stepped up and told the triplet that she'd shut her damn mouth or he'd kill her.  Speaking of Marcos, I do feel bad for him that Lorna's basically taken their kid off on her crusade.

Bye Jace! Go away and don't come back! He adds nothing to the show and is an active detriment.

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Yeah now that you mention it, that is kind of messed up.

[BooBear]

6 hours ago, talktalk said:

Who else felt great when Lorna tore that stupid plane off the sky? Andy is such a bad ass, I wish his sister would get on board! 

One problem with this Mutant vrs everyone else story is I always agree with Magneto or his low rent replacement - Lorna.  Totally agree with Lorna and Andy.  It has gone too far. The Mutants are losing and people are dying because they are not really fighting to their full abilities. They need to go on attack and end it. Playing nice has gotten them hunted and some other mutants dead.  Will never accept they are "evil" for wanting to end the fight.  More like "team" wimp is evil for not having the courage to do what needs to be done.

Anyone know what was with Garret Dillahunt? His nose looked deformed or something. He looked different. 

For season 2 this show has to end the dynamic that the mutants are constantly doing "break ins" or "shoot outs" with sentinel services. Every single episode so far has been some variation on a fight with them for some purpose that always goes wrong.  I would like to see the Brotherhood start winning. 

Guys don't use the Strucker kids powers in the future unless you have the CGI to show some good effects. Not just "light."

[sjohnson]

It is unclear what endgame the Brotherhood of Mutants/Hellfire Club is offering. It might be some sort of sanctuary city/reservation the Brotherhood forces the government to accept, if only de facto, by more or less mutual assured destruction. Or it may be billionaire safe houses for a self-funding mutant mafia, which seems to be Hellfire Club's idea of a happy ending. The get along gang's hope of hunkering down till the masses come to their senses suffers from the problem that their real enemy is the government. It is perfectly unclear why they don't get the government on their side by offering their services. That's their politics, status quo, after all. 

It's not to be expected that Andy would get it, but why doesn't everyone else realize his manhood issues would magically disappear if he started dating? At any rate, his powers are ideal for ripping off heads and limbs, so when he only shoves people, its visual proof Andy is a lot more conflicted about the violence issue than the dialogue says. (Or it would be proof if we could be sure the writers on this show knew what they were doing. Alas, it could be the directors being allowed to think they are creatives?) Most of all, I'm pretty sure that Andy doesn't know he only has six great-grandparent. At this point, I'm not quite sure Reed allowed himself to pick up on that. John should have heard it all at Otto Strucker's but he's discreet, I think. Summing it up, I think we can say that separating the sibs means the show won't have to try to come up with good CGI for the Fenris effect. Mission accomplished!

Mumbling dialogue about how this isn't a manic phase doesn't mean treating bipolar disorder with a fugitive life style restores all moral responsibility. The show may want to resurrect notions about free will without openly deriding the idea that mental illness is not justification for not punishing someone with the full rigor of the law. Doesn't work for me at all, comes across as arbitrary dramatically, there solely to stand us for a certain view of crime and punishment.

PS Coby Bell is in an ideal position to be written off the show. It may be for contract negotiations, or they may be making a final decision on whether to switch his salary to Skyler Samuels.

Edited January 16, 2018 by sjohnson

[Bats27]

The problem with Magneto and Lorna's methods is simple.  It makes it SO MUCH easier to paint them as the villains.  And given that the humans still have many more people, and they have ways to kill and/or contain mutants already, I don't foresee this going well.

 

Heck the DOFP movie die a really good job of emphasizing this fact with Magneto giving his "mutants rule, humans suck" speech, and paralleling that with the mutants in the future (including his older self) getting brutally slaughtered by the Sentinels (thus showing where his way will ultimately lead to, everyone dying on both sides).

 

Yeah I think that things are going to get much worse in Season 2.

[RandomWatcher]

Just read on CBR that the mutant  attorney in the flashback is an actual character from the comics . Figured she was just a character made up for the show

[benteen]

I'm surprised the show had the guts to have Lorna destroy the plane but storyline wise, it was the right move.  The scene loses points for having her keep back her friends with a small row of barbed wire.  The previous episode had John taking what, six bullets in the back?  And now a row of barbed wire, which he could easily crawl under or jump over is going to stop him, Eclipse and Blink?  Ooookay....

Stupidity aside, that was a big moments and something to really build on for Season 2.  I can't say I blame the Brotherhood for being frustrated with the mutant underground.  All the underground is doing is hiding and playing defense with no long-term plan in sight.  That and name drop the X-Men A THOUSAND F'ING TIMES!  Seriously guys, referring to the X-Men two dozen times an episode isn't going to make them appear on the show.  The characters are split up nicely now for the new season.  That being said, killing a senator in a terrorist act with plenty of collateral damage is going to backfire for them big time.

Agreed that Marcos and Caitlin have much more chemistry.

Andy needs to be slapped and needs to be slapped hard.

Edited January 16, 2018 by benteen

[Lady Calypso]

3 hours ago, sjohnson said:

It's not to be expected that Andy would get it, but why doesn't everyone else realize his manhood issues would magically disappear if he started dating? At any rate, his powers are ideal for ripping off heads and limbs, so when he only shoves people, its visual proof Andy is a lot more conflicted about the violence issue than the dialogue says. (Or it would be proof if we could be sure the writers on this show knew what they were doing. Alas, it could be the directors being allowed to think they are creatives?) Most of all, I'm pretty sure that Andy doesn't know he only has six great-grandparent. At this point, I'm not quite sure Reed allowed himself to pick up on that. John should have heard it all at Otto Strucker's but he's discreet, I think. Summing it up, I think we can say that separating the sibs means the show won't have to try to come up with good CGI for the Fenris effect. Mission accomplished!

The main problem with Andy isn't necessarily that he needs to start dating, as that won't fix his anger issues, but it's more to do with addressing his anger instead of ignoring it. Of course the kid switched to Lorna's side! He was basically screaming about it all season! I would have been more surprised if he hadn't switched sides. All Reed and Caitlin do is whine about needing to stick together as a family without addressing the fact that their children are mutants, they have active powers, and they're not a normal family anymore. 

Also, yeah, super disappointed in the build up to the Struckers using their powers together. That was incredibly underwhelming. Oh look, a big bright light and then cut to them already at the next safehouse. 

I'd love for them to get rid of Jace, but I think he's going to be going rogue for season 2, where they'll inevitably introduce other characters on his side. Same with Blink, Reed, and Andy, who are also guaranteed to stick around. 

[JonasArm]

Jace's use so far has been for us having eyes on the side of the law/politics... I think they can only drop him if they find a replacement.

[athelyna]

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It did capture what annoys me about the mutants, their inability to compromise with each other. No, the answer isn't to go to war or kill humans, if only because there are so many more of them and they need them to keep producing mutant offspring, but the answer is not to run and hide which only makes them look like easy picking for Trask and Sentinel Services.

This is totally what my problem has been with the X-men as a concept - the very black and white approach to how interact with non-mutants.  There are options besides kill all humans and hide away and hope the scared humans just leave you alone.  I disagree with Lorna blowing the plane up - killing innocents and a senator who other non-mutants will view as innocent is just going to cause more people to hate the mutants, but do agree that the Mutant Underground plan of running around and hiding isn't going to help anymore.  They need to find a way to publicize the hound program - a lot of non-mutants who are sitting on the fence or think sentinel services is a good program would probably feel differently if they see the government using brainwashed mutants to try and blow up little kids.  That's what changed the Strucker parent perspective from just worrying about their own kids to agreeing the whole system is broken - seeing the abuses constantly heaped on the mutants close up.  The other thing is they keep name dropping the X-men, but the X-men didn't just hide - the kids went to school and the adults went out and fought bad mutants and various evil villains and tried to work to show that mutants are just people too - some are good, some are bad.

The introduction of Lorna has bipolar plot feels weird to me - is there a point to constantly saying this looks like it could start of a manic episode but then saying no it's definitely not?

That being said, I agree with everyone that hopefully going ahead and having the group split in two will make for better forward momentum, and less repetition of character beats.

[TiffanyNichelle]

13 hours ago, Mysteris said:

Bye Jace! Go away and don't come back! He adds nothing to the show and is an active detriment.

I'm so tired of his back and forthing about how far he wants to go with taking all mutants. Do you want to kill them? Do you want to just lock them all up? Do you only want to lock up the dangerous ones? Do you think they are all dangerous no matter what? Are you surprised that they have feelings and emotions like humans? Just STFU already, Jace.

I don't get the point of Campbell's faux sad backstory. They didn't dwell on it long enough and then they just killed him. I want to know why the Cuckoos wanted him killed so badly. They have to know it'll make things 10x worse for mutants (not like anything was going to make things better but still) So this has to be part of some plan by the people they work for. Ramp up the horrible conditions for mutants in America so that they'll all move to say, Genosha?

[TiffanyNichelle]

I can't believe I forgot my favorite part of the episode: The Blink/Thunderbird kiss! It was crap timing but I've been waiting for it forever. I also loved the scene where he shields her from being shot. He's bulletproof. Who knew?

[blackwing]

I'm with Lorna.  The mutants are at war and the other side had no qualms about trying to kill them and anyone who got in the way.   For all the blustering that Reed and Caitlin did throughout the season about violence, they sure had no issues firing a shotgun at federal agents.  It didn't seem like they were trying to aim for shields or legs.  They were full out firing.

I don't disagree with Andy, but he is just such a sniveling snot.  I can't stand him.  His stupid look, his stupid hair, his constipation.   Terrible actor.

Coby Bell is awful too.  They should take this opportunity to fire him.  He adds nothing to the show and actively brings it down.

How come all of a sudden now Clarice is so expert with her powers?   Before she strained and struggled and now it is just fluid with no real explanation.

What I don't understand about all this... the Frosts seem all-powerful.  If so, why was the one assigned to stay with the van while Marcos and John and Clarice went in?  Why didn't all three Frosts go in?  They could mind zap anyone they saw, and they could have disabled both the senator and Campbell.  Or take control of the senator's mind and make him preach a statement of acceptance and tolerance.  The Frosts could seemingly very easily end the mutant war.

[tennisgurl]

Oh Lorna. I get her anger and feelings that just running and hiding and being on the defensive isn't helping (and she isn't wrong), but she has to know that blowing up the plane is going to make everything worse for mutants. I mean, she has to know that, or if it hasn't hit her, it will soon. They might as well be printing "Mutant=Terrorist" on pamphlets and distributing them. I hope that, with the two groups splitting off, we can finally get some middle ground between "die humans!" and "hide from humans". What they need to do is show people what is going on, and get the public on their side. It seems like there are some humans who are sympathetic to mutants, or are neutral, and if they knew what horrible things were happening, maybe public outrage could shut these programs down, and get Sentinal Services to back off? Its better than looking just as bad as people think they are, or just hiding out. Hell, the X Men in the comics have done things like that before (hired PR agents, exposed sketchy government plans, redesigned costumes to look as heroic as possible), and while it doesn't usually work out, they try! 

I think this could be a really good arc for the second season, with the two groups and the government and everyone else going at each other. I also knew that Andy would go dark side, but I dont think it will be permanent. If someone would just give Andy a punching bag to work out his anger, and his parents actually talked to him beyond "we have to stick together" I think he would come back pretty quickly. 

The Hell Fire Club is probably trying to turn public opinion so much against mutants that all the mutants will have to turn to them. Maybe they want to rule over all mutants, or create their own mutant country? Or they want to take over the world and rule over humans? Either way, Lorna and Andy are gonna be pissed when they realize they were manipulated. 

I am so on the Blink/Thunderbird bandwagon. He shielded her from bullets! And they had a real kiss! And, most importantly, it meant that John can smile more, and hopefully take his shirt off more often, and anything that delivers those results is a good thing. Good lord that man is attractive. 

[Finis Terre]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

What I don't understand about all this... the Frosts seem all-powerful.  If so, why was the one assigned to stay with the van while Marcos and John and Clarice went in?  Why didn't all three Frosts go in?  They could mind zap anyone they saw, and they could have disabled both the senator and Campbell.  Or take control of the senator's mind and make him preach a statement of acceptance and tolerance.  The Frosts could seemingly very easily end the mutant war.

The Frosts' real purpose was to divide the mutants and headhunt for those they managed to manipulate, not to make the mission easy for them. But you're right in principle: whenever telepaths are introduced, plot holes are bound to appear.

And I get that it's popular to accuse the Struckers of hypocrisy and all other evils of the world, but they didn't kill any of the attackers. Needless to say, there's a huge difference between self-defense against invaders and shooting a plane where apart from villains there are neutral civilians. Like other posters say, the villains could have been kidnapped, but, again, that's not what the Frosts wanted.

Edited January 17, 2018 by Finis Terre

[janeta]

13 hours ago, BooBear said:

One problem with this Mutant vrs everyone else story is I always agree with Magneto or his low rent replacement - Lorna.  Totally agree with Lorna and Andy.  It has gone too far. The Mutants are losing and people are dying because they are not really fighting to their full abilities. They need to go on attack and end it. Playing nice has gotten them hunted and some other mutants dead.  Will never accept they are "evil" for wanting to end the fight.  More like "team" wimp is evil for not having the courage to do what needs to be done.

Anyone know what was with Garret Dillahunt? His nose looked deformed or something. He looked different. 

For season 2 this show has to end the dynamic that the mutants are constantly doing "break ins" or "shoot outs" with sentinel services. Every single episode so far has been some variation on a fight with them for some purpose that always goes wrong.  I would like to see the Brotherhood start winning. 

Guys don't use the Strucker kids powers in the future unless you have the CGI to show some good effects. Not just "light."

Re: Dillahunt—he got all scarred up in..... i forget which ep.  But i seem to recall he went thru a session with a mutant who could heal his scars? They didn’t all quite get fixed, leaving him looking better but not competely healed.

[BooBear]

9 minutes ago, janeta said:

Re: Dillahunt—he got all scarred up in..... i forget which ep.  But i seem to recall he went thru a session with a mutant who could heal his scars? They didn’t all quite get fixed, leaving him looking better but not competely healed.

Oh ok, must have missed that one -- thanks. 

[Gwen-Stacys]

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"What I don't understand about all this... the Frosts seem all-powerful. If so, why was the one assigned to stay with the van while Marcos and John and Clarice went in? Why didn't all three Frosts go in? They could mind zap anyone they saw, and they could have disabled both the senator and Campbell. Or take control of the senator's mind and make him preach a statement of acceptance and tolerance. The Frosts could seemingly very easily end the mutant war."

Their influence isn't long lasting. Eventually their victim in question could start to fight against their control, especially if it's only one sister left on detail. That, and as of right now, they're the only "on-the-ground, in the trenches" workers in the Hellfire club at the moment. Most of their attentions have been on recruitment. As for why one of them didn't go with Clarice, Marcos, and John, I fanwanked that they only stick with each other or people they see as "on their side" (Lorna, Andy, etc). After the 3-in-1 reveal, they're never seen alone with anyone else but each other or those 3, and the one time that they were (this episode) the lone sister was threatened.

As for the repeated mentioning of Lorna as bipolar, it's mostly because that's a huge aspect of her character (in comics)

Saw Andy and Lorna going dark since episode one. Neither one of them have defense only personality types, which is what the mutant underground's long term game plan seems to be (protect and run). So when the Cuckoos came in with actual game plan and long term goals in mind (a Mutant run country/state and safe haven), I honestly don't think they had to do much poking and prodding to get them there. Andy was team Cuckoo since they broke him out of jail, and Lorna too (she didn't seem all that upset about Esme tased Marcos, more amused tbh). Lorna's only hang-up was Marcos and not wanting to leave him behind. But all Esme had to do was convince Lorna that her concerns for her unborn child superseded her concern for Marcos and she flipped. That and Lorna and the triplets bonded over the course of the last two episodes. They were always sharing little smiles with each other when one of the 3 said something sassy, or how after their failed mission, instead of waiting outside of the house for Marcos, Clarice and John (who were in the other car with Cuckoo #3) she went inside with Cuckoo #1 and #2. She, like Andy, were slowly pulling away from the underground all episode/s.

Edited January 18, 2018 by Gwen-Stacys

[bow]

As always, my thoughts during the episode:

 

The fight over Blink’s past is so stupid and irrelevant at this point.

Again with the dialogue added in post-production. Jeez.

I personally don’t think Thunderbird is pretty, but he is clever (he’s no Eclipse).

I think Amy Acker is great. I don’t understand the complaints about her character.

I love the Queer as Folk mom, Sharon Gress. She’s a good actress, so she will probably come back into the story.

Thunderbird certainly got over Esme fast.

Evil Andy makes an appearance.

What that Mystique in the flashback with Lorna?

“You’re the one who denied your abilities and almost destroyed the whole family.” This is totally a lie. Little shitface (Andy) is the one who almost destroyed the whole family. Lauren had it under control.

J. Kirby’s Feed Store.

Coby Bell really is the worst actor.

That ending was awesome, but I didn’t expect Lorna to kill all those people. Andy is such a dick.

I can’t believe Reed’s powers didn’t manifest this episode. I hope there’s a second season!

Emma Dumont has come so far since Bunheads (which I liked for the record). Her acting has been really good all season.

Edited January 18, 2018 by bow

[Gwen-Stacys]

9 hours ago, bow said:

What that Mystique in the flashback with Lorna?

That was Evangeline Whedon. She can turn into a dragon.

[Katsullivan]

On 1/15/2018 at 11:15 PM, thuganomics85 said:

All I could think of during the scenes when the characters were changing into their guard uniforms was if it was actually scripted who got to keep their shirt on and who got to be shirtless/in their bra, or if they had the pairs flip a coin, and both Blair Redford and Jamie Chung lost their respected bouts? 

The episode before it was Lorna who got the gratuitous shirtless scene. As long as they don't force us to see Reed shirtless, I'm good. 

On 1/16/2018 at 6:00 AM, BooBear said:

One problem with this Mutant vrs everyone else story is I always agree with Magneto or his low rent replacement - Lorna.  Totally agree with Lorna and Andy.  It has gone too far. The Mutants are losing and people are dying because they are not really fighting to their full abilities. They need to go on attack and end it. Playing nice has gotten them hunted and some other mutants dead.  Will never accept they are "evil" for wanting to end the fight.  More like "team" wimp is evil for not having the courage to do what needs to be done.

I think some philosopher once argued that refusal to fight or kill in certain circumstances can be immoral. In this case, the mutants are fighting for their survival. It's hard to see how it can be worse than this when mutants are rounded up and used for guinea pigs in Trasks's shady lab without any recourse or intervention. Mutants already face systemic discrimination and persecution.  Marcos was right - it can be worse. What he doesn't understand is that it will get worse regardless of what they do. 

On 1/16/2018 at 7:21 AM, sjohnson said:

It's not to be expected that Andy would get it, but why doesn't everyone else realize his manhood issues would magically disappear if he started dating?

Andy's issues aren't manhood issues.

He was bullied in high school for many years and was powerless to do anything to stop it. On top of all the PTSD that comes with that baggage, life now "gifted" him with mutant powers - and made him a member of the persecuted mutant class. 

Perfect storm. 

 

On 1/16/2018 at 7:21 AM, sjohnson said:

Most of all, I'm pretty sure that Andy doesn't know he only has six great-grandparent.

Is it confirmed that the von Struckers were incestuous? Because then ... ewww.

On 1/16/2018 at 9:47 AM, benteen said:

I'm surprised the show had the guts to have Lorna destroy the plane but storyline wise, it was the right move.  The scene loses points for having her keep back her friends with a small row of barbed wire.  The previous episode had John taking what, six bullets in the back?  And now a row of barbed wire, which he could easily crawl under or jump over is going to stop him, Eclipse and Blink?  Ooookay....

LOL! I kept laughing at that part. What was stopping Blink from walking away from the barbed wire and opening a portal? What was stopping John from crawling under it? The same thing that stopped the Frost triplets from being part of the Abduction plan and making it 100x more effective by simply mind-controlling their targets. 

On 1/16/2018 at 3:52 PM, TiffanyNichelle said:

I can't believe I forgot my favorite part of the episode: The Blink/Thunderbird kiss! It was crap timing but I've been waiting for it forever. I also loved the scene where he shields her from being shot. He's bulletproof. Who knew?

Wasn't too excited. Is Esme's body even cold in the ground? I don't have a bone in their love triangle, but to all appearances, even though John was attracted to Blink, he and Esme loved each other and had a genuine relationship. To have him move on so quickly after her death just struck me as stone cold. 

[Raja]

14 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

 

Is it confirmed that the von Struckers were incestuous? Because then ... ewww.

 

That is the way I understood the scene talking about the great grandparents. Backed up by his big sister's orgasmic reaction to sharing her powers with the brother for the first time. After assuming that she being older has been closer to or actually engaging in sex while Andy had not. I stood with  disbelief that they would have gone there with a child character

[Katsullivan]

LOL. That's crazy brave for network TV.

Any comic fans care to confirm/deny? You can redirect me to the appropriate thread. 

[sjohnson]

Pretty sure the Frosts can do one person at a time, and it seems to be only at close range too. Any situation where there are more than three people, or people with guns out of their range, or anyplace with robot weapons and tear gas ducts, and so forth, would be just as likely to get one or more of them killed. None seem to be very brave either. So I've never thought the Frosts were all powerful. The kidnap should have worked. Who knew Campbell was a fan of Martin Sheen, and just loved The Dead Zone?

Don't know the comics, but the mutant supremacists don't dilute the genes. The only reason I can see that Reed hasn't used that to dis-infatuate Andy is he's in denial about it too. 

Being bullied is a manhood issue, and a girlfriend would work wonders on Andy's attitude. Victims of bullying are targeted for bad reasons, but reasons there are nonetheless. At this point, I take it we are to think the real Andy is just a  coward inviting abuse for the epic fail of his personality. And his powers have brought out the inner corruption. The worm turns but it's still a worm. 

Edited January 22, 2018 by sjohnson

[Chas411]

The move to put Blink at the centre of the mutants as a leader feels completely unearned given she's behaved like a petulant brat all season. I don't know why the writers think putting her to the lead is a good move but I think I may be out.

[Chas411]

Also I can't with the blandness of Clarice/John. It's so bland.

The pacing was all off - it was like 3 separate very boring shows.

[immortalfrieza]

On 1/15/2018 at 11:09 PM, Bats27 said:

That's been the issue with Magneto and The Brotherhood, you can understand their motivations most of the time. However, often their methods just make it EASIER for their enemies to paint all mutants as "evil violent monsters" and use it as justification for more persecution. Also it tends to turn public opinion as well.

I suspect that similar things will happen here as well.

 

On 1/21/2018 at 4:54 PM, Katsullivan said:

I think some philosopher once argued that refusal to fight or kill in certain circumstances can be immoral. In this case, the mutants are fighting for their survival. It's hard to see how it can be worse than this when mutants are rounded up and used for guinea pigs in Trasks's shady lab without any recourse or intervention. Mutants already face systemic discrimination and persecution.  Marcos was right - it can be worse. What he doesn't understand is that it will get worse regardless of what they do. 

 

The problem is that in any continuity Mutants just can't seem to form anything resembling a unified front. Organizations like the Brotherhood and Hellfire Club are regardless of what they claim to be really just selfish psychotics out for themselves who want to take over the world using lies, truths, and half truths to justify their actions and get similar minded mutants on their side, not a tormented minority fighting a war for the very survival of their species. These people are killing random humans and causing random mass destruction simply because they can, rather than because of a real effort to win a war. Conversely, even if those groups were fighting an actual war they've got groups like the X-Men and the Mutant Underground fighting to stop those groups from accomplishing anything. Lorna ripping apart Campbell's plane? That's nothing more than meaningless death and destruction that only makes the humans all the more determined to destroy all mutants. If they wanted to accomplish anything the mutants would have to get all the mutants possible together to make an actual coordinated effort to destroy military installations and similar anti-mutant figures like Campbell all over the country if not the world as much as they can manage to FORCE humans to recognize them as equals instead of pests to be exterminated, if not lay the humans low entirely. Random attacks like Lorna's really only give the humans time and motivation to catch up to mutants in destructive capability, humans wouldn't last a month against an actual mutant army making a real effort to bring them down.

 

Humans in the comics are downright insanely obsessed with destroying Mutants and if this show hasn't proven that they're the same it's definitely heading down that way. Humans are going to destroy mutants down to the last man if the mutants don't do the same to the humans first, there is no middle ground here and any of the characters who believe otherwise are simply afraid to face reality.

 

Oh, and I'll bet money that Campbell is just fine, that the whole plane being destroyed was permitted to kill off the senator specifically to drum up anti-mutant sentiment while Campbell himself had one of his Hounds teleport him out or something.

[teenj12]

On 1/16/2018 at 7:21 AM, sjohnson said:

It's not to be expected that Andy would get it, but why doesn't everyone else realize his manhood issues would magically disappear if he started dating? At any rate, his powers are ideal for ripping off heads and limbs, so when he only shoves people, its visual proof Andy is a lot more conflicted about the violence issue than the dialogue says. .

LOL, I swear to god that while I was watching the episode, I kept thinking to myself: "Man, Andy really needs to get laid".

I know that's so horrible to say, but goddamn xP.

[Raja]

11 hours ago, teenj12 said:

LOL, I swear to god that while I was watching the episode, I kept thinking to myself: "Man, Andy really needs to get laid".

I know that's so horrible to say, but goddamn xP.

If my theory that his great grandparents were incestuous and his  sister thought holding hands with him was better than sex is correct then it wouldn't help, it would make it worse.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Raja

[wayne67]

I liked the episode well enough but all the moral grandstanding gets tiresome.

I'd be fine with the Mutant Underground working towards a more effective peaceful option eg finding a political safe haven somewhere, I'm sure there's some small country in the world that would consider having a group of mutants indebted to them quite useful.

Or if a large segment of the Mutant Underground simply decided that turning the other cheek is no longer a viable option and just teamed up to destroy/expose the corruption that's rampant in Sentinel Services/Evil Labs.

Instead we get tired arguments about whether it's nobler to stay true to the X-Men's vision of don't kill the people that are trying to kill you, take the high road and claim a moral superiority or whether it's smarter to stop making excuses for the people trying to perpetrate genocide on your sub species and wipe them out while you still can.

Even before the Senator got blown up he was going to try pass legislation that would make the hunting down, capturing and experimenting on mutants easier by claiming they don't deserve human rights. 

When you have the government claiming you're not human, it's time to either work on finding a better government to offer you sanctuary or burn it all to the ground and start again. Not spend every other minute arguing about ethics and morality. 

I did like Andy's dig about the American Revolution, if you win the war, you get to write the history books and claim you were the morally superior side fighting for all the right reasons instead of terrorists. Might makes right after all. 

[Raja]

55 minutes ago, wayne67 said:

I liked the episode well enough but all the moral grandstanding gets tiresome.

I'd be fine with the Mutant Underground working towards a more effective peaceful option eg finding a political safe haven somewhere, I'm sure there's some small country in the world that would consider having a group of mutants indebted to them quite useful.

Or if a large segment of the Mutant Underground simply decided that turning the other cheek is no longer a viable option and just teamed up to destroy/expose the corruption that's rampant in Sentinel Services/Evil Labs.

Instead we get tired arguments about whether it's nobler to stay true to the X-Men's vision of don't kill the people that are trying to kill you, take the high road and claim a moral superiority or whether it's smarter to stop making excuses for the people trying to perpetrate genocide on your sub species and wipe them out while you still can.

Even before the Senator got blown up he was going to try pass legislation that would make the hunting down, capturing and experimenting on mutants easier by claiming they don't deserve human rights. 

When you have the government claiming you're not human, it's time to either work on finding a better government to offer you sanctuary or burn it all to the ground and start again. Not spend every other minute arguing about ethics and morality. 

I did like Andy's dig about the American Revolution, if you win the war, you get to write the history books and claim you were the morally superior side fighting for all the right reasons instead of terrorists. Might makes right after all. 

I agree even without the legislation the Senator proposed the government contracted with a company to produce "hounds" used captured people just how we use war dogs today.

Edited January 29, 2018 by Raja

[wayne67]

15 minutes ago, Raja said:

I agree even without the legislation the Senator proposed the government contracted with a company to produce "hounds" used captured people just how we use war dogs today.

At this point, the government is capturing, experimenting on and killing mutants simply because they are mutants. I'm not sure how blowing up a plane would make things worse for mutants, the only thing that might change is that the government would be more open about their goals of mutant genocide. 

The major problem with this episode is that the Von Struker children are morons. They could have simply broken the stupid manacles and the Hounds would have been significantly less dangerous to everyone. Instead they just wiped them out of existence. Take that drug addicted, brain washed tools of an oppressive government. 

I hope next season Sage uses her awesome intellect to create a Brotherhood version of the Manacle, something a little more lightweight and cooler so that Lorna and Andy could combine their powers so we could get a telekinetic with power over the electromagnetic spectrum. It'd be so nice if the Mutants acted more like powerful mutants and less like endangered animals running pointlessly from human predators. 

[Katsullivan]

On 1/25/2018 at 1:34 PM, immortalfrieza said:

 Organizations like the Brotherhood and Hellfire Club are regardless of what they claim to be really just selfish psychotics out for themselves who want to take over the world using lies, truths, and half truths to justify their actions and get similar minded mutants on their side, not a tormented minority fighting a war for the very survival of their species.

Lorna ripping apart Campbell's plane? That's nothing more than meaningless death and destruction that only makes the humans all the more determined to destroy all mutants.

That the mutants are a tormented minority is not debatable. We've watched enough of the show to see that: under-age mutants can be arrested without due process, mutants can be literally sold into slavery as medical guinea pigs, hooked on drugs and turned into weapons without their consent, mutants are regularly discriminated at on the fundamental levels (denial of proper healthcare, Carlos being not just suspected by the random doctor of abusing his "girlfriend" despite her insistence that he wasn't but arrested) etc. That the mutants are a tormented minority is not disputable. That a war is being fought is not disputable. 

I think - in this show at least - that they're already past the point of humans not wanting to destroying the mutants. By your logic, the mutants should "wait and see" if the humans would "give" them basic human rights while with every passing episode, their own rights are being restricted, and there is really no sign that any human - except humans like the Strikers who are mutant-adjacent - are sympathetic to the mutant cause. There was even an entire episode about it, where Mom Stryker confided in her husband that truth be told, if her children hadn't been affected by this, she'd have been just as happily oblivious of the human rights abuses going on around them as the next picketfence neighborhood. 

If there's a 3rd option besides "Lie Down and Die" or "Fight Back" , this show has failed badly to show it. 

[immortalfrieza]

14 minutes ago, Katsullivan said:

That the mutants are a tormented minority is not debatable. We've watched enough of the show to see that: under-age mutants can be arrested without due process, mutants can be literally sold into slavery as medical guinea pigs, hooked on drugs and turned into weapons without their consent, mutants are regularly discriminated at on the fundamental levels (denial of proper healthcare, Carlos being not just suspected by the random doctor of abusing his "girlfriend" despite her insistence that he wasn't but arrested) etc. That the mutants are a tormented minority is not disputable. That a war is being fought is not disputable. 

I think - in this show at least - that they're already past the point of humans not wanting to destroying the mutants. By your logic, the mutants should "wait and see" if the humans would "give" them basic human rights while with every passing episode, their own rights are being restricted, and there is really no sign that any human - except humans like the Strikers who are mutant-adjacent - are sympathetic to the mutant cause. There was even an entire episode about it, where Mom Stryker confided in her husband that truth be told, if her children hadn't been affected by this, she'd have been just as happily oblivious of the human rights abuses going on around them as the next picketfence neighborhood. 

If there's a 3rd option besides "Lie Down and Die" or "Fight Back" , this show has failed badly to show it. 

Of course Mutants are a persecuted minority, that's not the point. I'm talking about mutant groups like the Brotherhood and the Hellfire Club, being mutants and thus a persecuted minority aren't the reasons they do what they do despite what they might try to claim. These mutants are just killing random people and destroying stuff because they can and because they get off on it, not because it would actually accomplish anything. Other fiction might try to equate it but there's a really really big difference between terrorists and freedom fighters, and that is that the former just causes random destruction for kicks while the latter makes coordinated strikes on actual militarily viable targets like military installations.

In short, mutant groups like the Brotherhood and Hellfire Club are neither "Lying Down and Dying" nor "Fighting Back", they're just causing chaos for the sheer fun of it.

Edited February 13, 2018 by immortalfrieza

[Katsullivan]

On 13/02/2018 at 1:19 PM, immortalfrieza said:

I'm talking about mutant groups like the Brotherhood and the Hellfire Club, being mutants and thus a persecuted minority aren't the reasons they do what they do despite what they might try to claim. These mutants are just killing random people and destroying stuff because they can and because they get off on it, not because it would actually accomplish anything.

The Brotherhood in the X-Men movies aren't killing random people, and I don't see any evidence that the Hellfire is to. We haven't seen a lot of the Hellfire Club but so far, the Cuckoo Sisters went after Trask industry and the Senator who was in bed with them. Based on my own vague memories, Magneto went after: the US Senator who wanted to sign the Mutant Registration Act, Stryker who planned to carry out Mutant Genocide, the Maker(s)/Distributors of a Mutant Cure. In the Fassbender movies, he was going after Sebastian, a mutant who exploited other mutants, and then Peter Dinklage's character, who invented the Sentinels that would wipe out Mutants. 

Magneto's philosophy was "Us or Them. They Will Kill Us so We Have To Kill Them First." His methods were brutal and ruthless, and that will attract the kind of people who "like the work too much". But he wasn't causing chaos for the sake of chaos. He wasn't killing "random" people and I haven't seen any evidence the Hellfire Club is doing that either. 

In The Gifted so far, more random people have died at the hands of the Human Faction than the hands of the Hellfire or Mutant Underground.

Quote

Other fiction might try to equate it but there's a really really big difference between terrorists and freedom fighters, and that is that the former just causes random destruction for kicks while the latter makes coordinated strikes on actual militarily viable targets like military installations.

The "humans" in the Gifted aren't making co-ordinated attacks on military visible mutant targets. They attacked Blink's foster home and apparently murdered her foster parents and most of her siblings. They sent Sentinel services after underage children and would have used deadly force to bring them in, without due process. And technically, they aren't terrorists because they *are* the law.

Which makes sense. No war is ever fought the way you describe, not in fiction and not in reality.

[AKA...CJ86]

MVP's for most obvious "We'll Join The Bad Guys": Lorna & Andy... but did like all the bit players that were also recruited.  Still, Sage is the biggest disservice to an existing character, my opinion.

So, next season is the Underground, Hellfire Club, and another human side of the equation (please be Friends of Humanity, please...).  

I think my biggest peeve is how the Strucker parents and kids were able to just waltz around the Mutant Underground and do as they wish, go on missions... now if the Fenris backstory/mythology, once it was revealed to the Underground, and affected the situation, I could run with that, but since the beginning, they (Struckers) never seemed to earn their stripes but held such prominence, had such a hold on the Underground.

Loved the show, felt like it meandered a bit, but really ended strong.

Another minor peeve, I'd like the daughter if she didn't look like she always mugging for the camera.

Edited February 21, 2018 by CyberJawa1986
Edits and Stuff, Yo!