S19.E10: Pathological

[Xeliou66]

I figured I would go ahead and start the episode thread, a little less than 24 hours in advance. 

This one looks pretty interesting, and I’m extremely excited to see Olivet and Warner back in this one

[QueenMab]

Olivet and Warner. If they're onscreen more than 1 minute each, knock me over with a feather.

[Xeliou66]

2 hours ago, QueenMab said:

Olivet and Warner. If they're onscreen more than 1 minute each, knock me over with a feather.

From the promo picks, Warner will be on the witness stand testifying, so we will likely get a couple of scenes with her. I’m glad we are going back into the courtroom in this one, we haven’t had nearly enough courtroom this season. I hope we get a lot of good Barba scenes where he’s more than Benson’s puppet. 

Olivet I have no idea, I wonder what she’ll be doing, I wonder if she’ll be counseling Benson since we know she counsels cops, or if she’ll be assisting with the case and talking to the victim or perp. I hope it’s the latter, I miss Dr Huang a lot, he added much needed expertise and sanity to the show and it would be nice to see Olivet do that role. Either way it will be good to see her again.

[QueenMab]

Dr.Wang has a good lead part on another show ( or did until recently) and Warner, was playing an ADA, I think on Blue Bloods. Maybe that's why they disappeared, they bailed because they weren't going to stay where they weren't wanted! :)

Dr. Want is on "I Robot". That's where I've seen him. Watch the show like it's a car wreck on the Fwy and I'm not sure what's happened! :)

Wang. I hate when my phone second guesses me.

[QueenMab]

It will be nice to have courtroom Barba. I've had a sneaky feeling that all this cuddly Norman Rockwell family bs is a setup. It would make for more soap drama for Barba when he has to mentally and emotionally "detach" from the faaaamily or lose his ass ( career, rep, etc). I swear to God, am I the only one who thinks this Benson's family crap is like a cult? Once your in, YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE....DA DA DUNNN!

[shapeshifter]

Here's the TVDB.com bit about the episode that the PTV mods use:

Quote

The SVU investigates a case involving two students in special needs school and Rollins discovers that one child's medical issues stem from a surprising source. 

—which doesn't have any of the info about Olivet or Warner, so thanks to posters above.

 

 

2 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I miss Dr Huang a lot,

BD Wong is still a lead in Mr. Robot, so congrats to him, although I would like to see him reprise Dr. Haung too.

Edited January 10, 2018 by shapeshifter
My autocorrect wanted it to be Olivetti

[Fiero425]

Wow; what judge lets a kook like that out? Rollins could tell something was wrong with her within 5 min.! She was looking for death! That little girl's childhood truly was taken away from her! Now she'll be punished somehow! No way will they just "let this go!" ;-(

Edited January 11, 2018 by Fiero425

[balmz]

mixed on the episode

 

irl sam most likely wouldn't be having sex with mariel or starting anything, if anything most likely it'd be her who started it

 

as juveille as it was, the way they described sex made me laugh

 

how awful for mariel, her mother poisoning her

 

 

was kinda disappointed that they didn't kill the mother alive and then show the trial with her instead of the cliche she gets killed thing

 

what judge would let that mother out not once but twice, seriously, with her getting killed was surprised the judge wasn't blamed in some way

 

i notice they never mentioned a plea deal or anything with mariel, that would have made the most sense

 

barba screwing up the case accidentally isn't too unbelievable for me, when i'm distracted or worried, i can miss important things

 

how would the jurors not know that mariel faced life in prison? seriously what person wouldn't know that

liked the ending with amanda

 

with olivia and noah, the part with him wanted to sleep in her bed annoyed me, like i would think oliva would know how scary an event like that can be, seriously screw you liv

[Fiero425]

8 minutes ago, balmz said:

mixed on the episode

 

irl sam most likely wouldn't be having sex with mariel or starting anything, if anything most likely it'd be her who started it

 

as juveille as it was, the way they described sex made me laugh

 

how awful for mariel, her mother poisoning her

 

 

was kinda disappointed that they didn't kill the mother alive and then show the trial with her instead of the cliche she gets killed thing

 

what judge would let that mother out not once but twice, seriously, with her getting killed was surprised the judge wasn't blamed in some way

 

i notice they never mentioned a plea deal or anything with mariel, that would have made the most sense

 

barba screwing up the case accidentally isn't too unbelievable for me, when i'm distracted or worried, i can miss important things

 

how would the jurors not know that mariel faced life in prison? seriously what person wouldn't know that

liked the ending with amanda

 

with olivia and noah, the part with him wanted to sleep in her bed annoyed me, like i would think oliva would know how scary an event like that can be, seriously screw you liv

Jurors are idiots and can only do as instructed! So often they don't have a clue outside of just judging the evidence put before them! It's the reason OJ got off; the prosecution was incompetent while the defense tried to relate to them and were a lot more charismatic! I remember Trump and other owners of USFL teams back in the 80's won their case of collusion against the NFL! The jurors awarded only a dollar thinking the judge would come up with a figure! They must not have been told that the only thing the judge could do was triple the judgement so Trump got $3 IIRC! That is one of the reasons he's gone "tooth and nail" after FOOTBALL trying to pay them back! ;-)

[shapeshifter]

I recently happened upon the real case from whose headlines this was ripped (the daughter is Gypsy Rose Blanchard). IRL I think she got a life sentence, so I guess the point to this episode was to let the public imagine an opposite scenario sentence, especially if the Munchausens had been discovered while she was still legally a minor. The typical parallel plot would perhaps be writers' remorse for ending the Sheila arc with Noah having bonded with her—now what are they going to do with him?

[WendyCR72]

11 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

I recently happened upon the real case from whose headlines this was ripped (the daughter is Gypsy Rose Blanchard). IRL I think she got a life sentence

Nope. She got 10 years for second-degree murder. Ironically, there's a new People interview with her discussing her ordeal.

[QueenMab]

Dry stuff folks. Tells us nothing. 

[Gigi43]

 I've seen things about Gypsy Rose, they even had a 20/20 last week, so once they said they mom was making Mariel sick I was waiting for the mom to die (the real story is a bit weird, the mom supposedly watched everything Gypsy did and drugged her a lot, yet she met a guy online where she'd dress up in various kinds of outfits from princess to sexy, then had him come and help her kill her mom.)

 

This may sound a bit weird but I was happy to see the description for the episode involving two special needs students (of course I should have known better than to trust it.) For a while now I've wanted SVU to go into the topic of people with disabilities and consent, and further more about what goes on at the schools. The way it started I was surprised at how maybe it would be a case of a consent debate. I have a muscle problem and breathing problems so my parents sent me to a school for "physically disabled" but they also accepted students if they were also slow/learning impaired. It was K-12thh grade. I left in 9th because they really slowed down the teaching "for everyone" . only the physically challenged like myself shafted by not learning at our full potential, plus I couldn't take any more situations where a slow or very physically limited student that would touch me or constantly say offensive things to me and I would be told by staff -I swear to God- "but its not like he can do anything more" since said guy that would touch me was far less functioning all around than I am ( arm use was very limited and could just barely do it, but it was often until my father demanded/threatened he be kept away from me) or I "needed to understand {another guy classmate} has had it really hard in life" and was acting out by saying things to me (not always sexual things.)  You could stay at the school until 21 and they treated the 18+ like the rest of the highschool they ate lunch with whoever, participated in events and yes, then things had happened where a slow 19 yr old girl kissed a 13 yr  old by lockers because they liked each other and the staff was 'blown away' that could happen because ultimately they don't view the students as being capable of such feelings and certainly never did any education or efforts to make it known proper and improper interactions with the "Super Seniors". Also I would think with Autism being on the raise and a topic of conversation, the issue of consent must come up (and it does become a discussion I've seen on forums of shows with Autistic characters having relationships.) Problems  I know are not limited to just one special needs school . The topics are ripe with storiesBut no SVU had to go for a headline.

 

Back to the episode, Mariel saying "she heard about rape" was a kind of odd and lazy way to write in why she first said rape. They clearly didn't spend much time on that because they wanted to tell the other story. Once again there was no jury verdict. I'm worried with Stone coming on this is going to bite Barba eventually (though he should not have done that, he's a professional but he's been around St. Benson too much.) Did the boyfriend end up getting any time for having sex with her as a minor? I got lost with that part along the way. Again. schools like that blur the lines and naive parents who know their older kid is in a class with minors don't take the time to teach them "you're in school together but you're older and can't date.)

 

It was nice seeing old faces. But once again the vic, perp, etc, were all white. Is there a shortage of minorities willing to go on SVU? Has there been a case this season involving solving a case for non-white people? This is NYC for crying out loud,

[RafaelBarba35]

Nice episode. Lots of Fin. Lots of Amanda Lots of Rafael. Not so much Benson.

 

OK onto the ending. I see a lot of people are pissed at Rafi because he did it for Liv or some crap like that but he didn't. She never told him what to do. He came up with it on his own. It was his decision. Almost like the whole giving a junkie money for drugs so she can testify. The only thing I'm mad about is we didn't get to see the scene between him and Barth in her chambers. I would have loved to see that. Even s18 did that with Imposter. That would have been way more interesting than Noah.

[Xeliou66]

That was one of this season’s better episodes overall, there was some I liked and some I didn’t. 

I liked that we had a lot less Benson, she was barely involved in the case, it was good that she was on leave for the episode and didn’t have much involvement, she’s the worst part of the show. I liked that there wasn’t any agenda she was pushing and her overacting was kept to a minimum. I was glad that Dodds at least made sure she took a while off, although I would’ve liked to have seen him tear into both her, Fin and Rollins for their idiotic behavior. 

I loved seeing Fin in charge, I wish he was running SVU full time, he does a great job of it, and I liked both Rollins and Carisi getting a lot of focus in this one, I really like Carisi and how he is a stable detective who doesn’t have the anger issues of Stabler and Amaro, it’s nice that they broke the stereotype with him. 

Loved seeing Warner and Olivet again, they are both great characters and I’ve missed seeing experts like them on the show, they were both very useful and SVU could use a lot more of the medical and psych stuff that we rarely see anymore. Warner is sorely missed now, and Olivet’s always been a character I’ve liked, since Huang’s gone I hope we can see Olivet again some, I miss her and Skoda. 

As for the court case, well to barrow the catchphrase of the great Adam Schiff “make a deal!”. I have no idea why Barba didn’t just work out a plea agreement with the defense, I don’t think a jury would give a harsh sentence to a 15 year old girl who had killed someone who abused her her whole life, it would’ve saved a lot of headache to just work out a lenient plea for manslaughter. But then there wouldn’t be all the drama. 

Barba deliberately doing something to tank the case reminded me of when Ben Stone did something similar on season 1 of L&O when he leaked information to the defense because he didn’t want the defendant going to jail, the guy was dying of AIDS and was a mercy killer who had assisted the suicide of a couple of others dying of AIDS and only had a few months to live. It was very similar to what Barba did tonight. It will be interesting to see if this gets brought up again, since we know Peter Stone is coming on, and it would especially interesting if Stone mentioned what his father did in the aforementioned case to Barba when discussing this case, that would be a great callback. Either way, I hope Stone and Jack McCoy are able to get Barba to wake up and stop doing dumb shit like this that could bite him in the ass. It least tonight Barba did everything on his own and didn’t do it for St Olivia and wasn’t used as Benson’s bitch, although I’m sick of Barba basically acting as Benson’s therapist for him to vent her feelings to, where’s Lindstrom? That’s who Benson should be talking to throughout all of this. 

Whoever the judge was that let the fruitcake bitch mom out of jail not once but twice even after she had threatened her daughter needs to be removed from the bench for being a goddamn brain dead fool. What the hell was that judge thinking? That loon bitch of a mom should’ve been locked in jail or in a psych ward until her trial, period. The judge being a dumbass led to her getting killed, remove that idiot from the bench ASAP!!!!

Overall, a pretty good episode that could’ve been better if they had written the courtroom stuff better.

[QueenMab]

So, after a hard day at work Barba comes home ,doesn't trust the elephant because he probably bought Noah the toys , and talks about his day to his wife. And I thought Benson was Christian now. No Xmas tree? No wreath on the door? No Xmas presents for the golden child? Rafi and Liv, chillin' at home with the sex traffickers kid. W T F ??!!?? She's too big and too old for him! No baby Barba's out of her. This sooo wrong, stupid, pretend, substitute for a real relationship bullshit is getting pukey. I don't care what happens.

[ForeverAlone]

Without a doubt, this was my favorite episode of the season. It felt like one of those really good, old school season episodes. I mean, like older episodes, this used the possibility of a sex crime as a pretext to more crimes. I figured this episode would end in a murder, but I thought the mother would murder her child after she was convicted or something like that. But the daughter killing the mother was an interesting twist. I also felt this episode used the team effectively. Of course I think a good chunk of that was because of the reduced presence of Olivia, because she was on leave. Sure, I would have been happy if she was barely in it, but at least this time, Fin got to actually do his job as team leader for the most part in her absence and was good at it. Dominic and Amanda got to do their job, and even Rafael pretty much did his job on his own. Of course I wondered why he didn't kick the case down to family court in the first place, if he didn't want to charge her with first degree murder (at least that is what I assume he charged her with). But at least the investigation was interesting and the court scenes were good. Too bad they didn't show the judge verbally spanking Rafael, because that would have been interesting to see. I wish the show would keep this sort of balance for future episodes, because it really did feel more like an ensemble and not the Olivia Benson Drama Hour. I could even ignore the couple of scenes with Noah, because they didn't feel overwrought. Granted I would prefer Noah-less episodes for the rest of the season, but at least this felt more realistic. And it was nice to see Amanda with Jessie, because she is just as much of a single mother as Olivia, but we barely ever see it. 

Edited January 11, 2018 by ForeverAlone

[QueenMab]

Barba has officially burnt out in his job. One ethical F up after another. My significant other is an ADA. That's how I know stuff. He watched ( sort of ) with me. He said "that guy is burnt out, he's been doing it too long".  The ethical breaches, the unethical involvement with the cases and the lead Detective ( when Barba comes home to Liv to drink scotch and talk it's a situation that definitely looks like sex is involved and that's why an ADA would NEVER do that...it looks BAD) and keeps f ing up to the point of dishing major suckage in court, he's burnt. My guy recognizes the signs. He's seen it happen over the course of his twenty year career. Benson has apparently replaced Barba's mother as the person he talks to, he's verrrrry unhappy, and his career has not only been stuck in the mud for six years, it's circling the drain. Time for Barba to jump to the JTTF or something. I bet this what Stone will slam Barba about I betcha..... he's gonna call Barba out on being Burt out and f ing up....because he is....big time. W TF is this show doing? 

[FireGhost]

The writers/producers have been throwing minor characters under the bus left and right this season to advance an ill-conceived, shallow season arc – ok. But now they're doing it to Barba too?

Obviously the DA will rip him a new one. My bet: Barba will be demoted and forced to sit second chair for Peter Stone. Or he'll be suspended again. Not plausible from a story telling/continuity POV (given he was suspended just a year ago), but since Raúl Esparza was cast in a musical and won't be available for a few weeks … I don't even know.

I guess the “good” thing is that it wasn't Olivia again who told him to do What's Right (TM) …

[Josette]

Some viewers seem to think Barba accidentally blew the case, but I (and some of you agree) really thought the show was telling us he did it on purpose.

One thing that bugged me was that the jurors were not wearing their badges in the elevator.  I served on a jury and the jurors were instructed to wear their badges all the time while in the building.  Of course, Barba would have recognized them anyhow, but it still bugged me.

Edited January 11, 2018 by Josette
fixing it

[sockii]

13 minutes ago, Josette said:

Some viewers seem to think Barba accidentally blew the case, but I (and some of you agree) really thought the show was telling us he did it on purpose.

One thing that bugged me was that the jurors were not wearing their badges in the elevator.  I served on a jury and the jurors were instructed to wear their badges all the time while in the building.  Of course, Barba would have recognized them anyhow, but it still bugged me.

Oh, that's a good catch about the badges, you're right! And not recognizing them, come on. I've served on juries before, and yeah...no way an prosecutor or defense attorney is not going to recognize the jurors, especially if we're talking near the end of trial. That was weak.

Otherwise—and despite some other weak spots—I still have to say this was probably my favorite episode of the season (as low as the bar has become over the last couple years, heh.) I got some actual old school L&O feels in the writing/story progress like I had first expected when Chernuchin came on board. (Or maybe I should say, it felt a bit like a Chicago Justice episode? In one bad way, down to the sudden outburst confession on the stand which was overused on CJ as a cheap plot device.)

Having Dr. Warner and Dr. Olivet show up was great even if it only reminded me of how much the show is lacking, not having these kinds of recurring outside experts involved on a regular basis any more.

I enjoyed seeing personal interactions and moments focused on more than just Liv. The Sonny and Amanda exchange, Amanda with Jesse at the end (though girl, please. Coming from a screwed-up family situation of my own that resonates so much with Amanda's history, it's well past time for her to go No Contact with her mom and sister already! Just do it before they mess up your life again!) I didn't even mind the Amanda & Liv and Rafael & Liv scenes because they were at least focused on discussing the case and ethical issues, not just St. Olivia's life.

(Though man, those "nightmare" flashbacks were cringe-inducing.)

Fin being acknowledged as second-in-command made my heart happy, and it showed how he could be a calm and rational leader of the unit—UNLIKE Benson—because he doesn't have to take everything personally. In my mind I see how he would be a leader much more like Cragen in that regard. Pity we'll probably never see that again.

For sure Barba threw the case on purpose and it was a weak, sloppy way to do it. He could have just offered a deal. But maybe that was to set up for Stone coming in as now we've got both the ADA and SVU being so sloppy? Well, however it's going to happen I just can't wait for Stone to get here already.

Just now, sockii said:

Oh, that's a good catch about the badges, you're right! And not recognizing them, come on. I've served on juries before, and yeah...no way an prosecutor or defense attorney is not going to recognize the jurors, especially if we're talking near the end of trial. That was weak.

Otherwise—and despite some other weak spots—I still have to say this was probably my favorite episode of the season (as low as the bar has become over the last couple years, heh.) I got some actual old school L&O feels in the writing/story progress like I had first expected when Chernuchin came on board. (Or maybe I should say, it felt a bit like a Chicago Justice episode? In one bad way, though—the sudden outburst confession on the stand which was overused on CJ as a cheap plot device.)

Having Dr. Warner and Dr. Olivet show up was great even if it only reminded me of how much the show is lacking, not having these kinds of recurring outside experts involved on a regular basis any more.

I enjoyed seeing personal interactions and moments focused on more than just Liv. The Sonny and Amanda exchange, Amanda with Jesse at the end (though girl, please. Coming from a screwed-up family situation of my own that resonates so much with Amanda's history, it's well past time for her to go No Contact with her mom and sister already! Just do it before they mess up your life again!) I didn't even mind the Amanda & Liv and Rafael & Liv scenes because they were at least focused on discussing the case and ethical issues, not just St. Olivia's life.

(Though man, those "nightmare" flashbacks were cringe-inducing.)

Fin being acknowledged as second-in-command made my heart happy, and it showed how he could be a calm and rational leader of the unit—UNLIKE Benson—because he doesn't have to take everything personally. In my mind I see how he would be a leader much more like Cragen in that regard. Pity we'll probably never see that again.

For sure Barba threw the case on purpose and it was a weak, sloppy way to do it. He could have just offered a deal. But maybe that was to set up for Stone coming in as now we've got both the ADA and SVU being so sloppy? Well, however it's going to happen I just can't wait for Stone to get here already.

[TV Diva Queen]

6 hours ago, Josette said:

Some viewers seem to think Barba accidentally blew the case, but I (and some of you agree) really thought the show was telling us he did it on purpose.

One thing that bugged me was that the jurors were not wearing their badges in the elevator.  I served on a jury and the jurors were instructed to wear their badges all the time while in the building.  Of course, Barba would have recognized them anyhow, but it still bugged me.

ahhh, not so sure, I've been on juries in Cook County at the Daley Center downtown, We didn't get the stickers until we reported in the morning.  Couldn't take them home.  Cook County gives jurors stickers not pins.  I even work across from the street from the Daley Center, go in there alot and rarely see juror stickers.  I do agree that they would have TOTALLY recognize the ADA on their case.  

[atlantaloves]

Now, THAT was more like it, I actually enjoyed that episode even though they stole the case from a real life murder, yahoooo.

[HunterHunted]

On 1/11/2018 at 6:38 AM, Josette said:

Some viewers seem to think Barba accidentally blew the case, but I (and some of you agree) really thought the show was telling us he did it on purpose.

One thing that bugged me was that the jurors were not wearing their badges in the elevator.  I served on a jury and the jurors were instructed to wear their badges all the time while in the building.  Of course, Barba would have recognized them anyhow, but it still bugged me.

I've never been called to serve on a jury and even I realized that the jurors should have had their badges on AND that Barba should have recognized them. Not only has he been trying a case in front of them, he had to go through voir dire to pick this jury.

Furthermore, I'm really irritated by Barba's request to change venue to Family Court after he tanked the case. The reason I'm irritated by that is that the Mothership respected the legal story enough that they would have had scenes prior to the commencement of the trial about whether the case should be in Family Court. You'd see an ADA arguing with the DA about this issue. Here we have Barba unilaterally making that decision when if he felt that strongly about it, he wouldn't have ever actually tried Mariel's case in criminal court to begin with. Those things actually provide detail about the characters and helps flesh them out.

Edited January 12, 2018 by HunterHunted

[wknt3]

[This is very late due to an unplanned trip to the ER. Nothing major although after catching up on the DVR I am now checking my SO's browser history and double checking all my meds and vitamins...]
The Good:
Tolerable Benson levels! And just about everything without her was pretty good.
Recurring characters! Warner!! Olivet!!! And they even wrote some decent dialogue for them!!!! My prayers were (partially) answered. It's amazing how much better the stories flow when it's more than just the squad and the perps/victims. If we didn't have to spend 15 minutes a week on Benoah maybe we could have actually had the squad interviewing multiple witnesses and would have truly felt like old school SVU.
Great acting from the guest stars especially the victim and her mother. It would have been very easy to go overboard with those roles.
Fin saying that they didn't need to call Liv to do their damn jobs.
It was nice seeing someone other than Benson being personally affected by a case and that they remembered Liv isn't the only one with a family.

The Bad:
They couldn't just let us have the squad working the case while Benson deals with the fallout? Rollins has to make a pilgrimage to St. Benson to get her blessing before she works the case? Seriously? It would have been so much better if they had given us Fin telling her to follow her gut.
Benoah. That probably goes without saying, but much like Mariska I don't believe in letting my suffering go without saying just in case someone out there might miss it.
The execution of Barba's screw up. It was a decent idea, but I don't think they quite pulled it off. Probably because to do it right would have meant taking too much time away from Benoah or from Barba pouring his hear out to Benson.

Overall this was a huge step up from last week. It was a good case where we didn't know what as coming next the whole way through. The whole cast got to do something meaningful and we actually got real legal drama as well. It really felt like a classic SVU episode with the Benoah soap opera grafted on. I hope we get more cases like this and keep Benoah off to the side. As much as I might regret not giving a good story room to breathe I would rather have solid plots for 30 minutes and use my FF button than have Mariska's ego run wild through the whole running time.

[Gigglepuff]

This one was just meh for me. I liked the full use of the rest of the squad and less Benson though I could have done without her horrible fever-dream flashbacks. Those scenes were simply god awful. I've had enough of Noah and don't ever need to see or hear about him again for the rest of the season. Fat chance of that I realize. 

I agree with everyone else here about how nice it was to see Warner and Olivet again. More of them and more old school characters please!! 

I thought the scene with Amanda was sweet. Not too long, not too short, it was just right and very cute. 

I didn't care for the actual case so much. It was pretty clear early on that this was going to be based on the Gypsy story, which is an interesting one, but I just couldn't find myself invested or caring too much. I didn't like the actress playing Mariel. I realize she was meant to be made ill by her mother, but she is the oldest looking 15 year old I've ever seen and I thought she (and MH's cringe inducing flashbacks) was the weak link in the acting department. She couldn't pull me into the story at all. Oh well. The only thing that I was pleasantly surprised about was that they didn't make the boy the actual murderer. I kind of thought they were going in that direction for a moment and I'm glad they didn't go there. 

At this point, I couldn't care less about Barba and his faux pas in the elevator. Whether it was intentional or not, I have no idea or even opinion. That has got to be about strike two for him by now, and the obvious segue into Stone's arrival (which yeah, I'm looking forward to because I loved the character and he won't take Benson's shit). BTW, for those of you that love Barba, I know you don't want Stone to take his place and all, but trust me. Stone in CJ was much like original Barba, you know, when he had a spine. I say that as a former hard core Barba fan too. I think if you liked original Barba, but don't like pod-Barba, you'll like Stone. 

This ep is one that for me, looked good on paper but just didn't translate to the screen. Maybe next week? Oh wait, what's the definition of insanity again? 

[QueenMab]

....doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Like watching this show and expecting a good Procedural police drama.

[shapeshifter]

16 hours ago, Josette said:

Some viewers seem to think Barba accidentally blew the case, but I (and some of you agree) really thought the show was telling us he did it on purpose.

One thing that bugged me was that the jurors were not wearing their badges in the elevator.  I served on a jury and the jurors were instructed to wear their badges all the time while in the building.  Of course, Barba would have recognized them anyhow, but it still bugged me.

I thought we were supposed to think he did it on purpose, but I can understand someone thinking it was accidental too, because if he did do it on purpose, he was very crafty about it. I mean, didn't he practically back into the crowded elevator with his head down, focused on his phone? And then, after he told a seemingly nonexistent person on the phone that the jury could give the Munchausens victim life in prison, he looked up and said with fake sincerity: Oh. You're jurors. I was under the impression that Barba then took the juror to the judge to confess his fake faux pas.

Edited January 12, 2018 by shapeshifter

[gryphon]

I thought it was accidental--he just seemed to not notice his surroundings when he was talking on the phone....I guess I'm just duped easily.  TBH, when Raf is on the screen, there is nothing much else happening in my head...er, what?  

 

I HATE the voice Olivia uses to talk to Noah.   

[DaynaPhile]

On 1/10/2018 at 8:55 PM, shapeshifter said:

I recently happened upon the real case from whose headlines this was ripped (the daughter is Gypsy Rose Blanchard). IRL I think she got a life sentence

So weird, I had just watched that documentary online last week! I think she’s serving 10 years, but I could be mistaken. If I hadn’t seen that last week I would have been a little more skeptical of this ep, but man...it literally really happened. 

[mamadrama]

I enjoyed this one much more than I've enjoyed most of the others this season. I'd like to see more Finn, and see Barba have some storylines outside of his interactions with Liv, but other wise I was pleasantly surprised. I don't expect these stories to be accurate anymore; I just watch them to kill an hour and to be entertained. 

[QueenMab]

I apologise for using a term that might be offensive. Guilty of using a term a gay friend uses to describe big masculine women..in private. Surely by now, other posters know my feelings about the LBGTQ community from my previous comments objecting to episodes that smacked of Homophobia ("Dissonant Voices"). Sorry.

[dttruman]

On 1/11/2018 at 7:38 AM, Josette said:

Some viewers seem to think Barba accidentally blew the case, but I (and some of you agree) really thought the show was telling us he did it on purpose.

One thing that bugged me was that the jurors were not wearing their badges in the elevator.  I served on a jury and the jurors were instructed to wear their badges all the time while in the building.  Of course, Barba would have recognized them anyhow, but it still bugged me.

Thank you for that insightful observation concerning the "badges". The writers sacrifice realism again just so they can come up with a lame out for Barba. The Barba character used to be an integral part of the justice system that I liked and now he has become a push button robot that Benson turns on when she wants someone prosecuted even if it's a weak case and so forth.

Edited January 16, 2018 by dttruman

[MaggieG]

11 hours ago, gryphon said:

I HATE the voice Olivia uses to talk to Noah.   

OMG yes, and she keeps calling him "sweet boy." It's starting to creep me out

[Xeliou66]

The worst part about this episode was how some of the legal stuff was written. The part about whether the case should be tried in family court or in regular court would’ve been dealt with before the trial and it would’ve been much simpler if Barba had just sent it to family court to start, so having him do it in an unethical way at the end was just stupid. If this show was well written, we would’ve seen the hearings before the trial to determine where the case would be tried, and we could’ve had Barba mention political pressure forcing him to try to defendant as an adult even though he personally didn’t want to. But no, instead of stuff like that, we get a bunch of Benson-Noah and the god awful flashbacks.

I wish we would never have to see stupid brat Noah again, I fucking hate that kid. And it is creepy how Olivia behaves around Noah, especially the part where she worries he’s going to become a rapist because of normal things that kids his age do. Olivia is really going to fuck him up by constantly bringing her paranoid distrust of anyone with a penis home to Noah. She’s a completely unfit mother, it appears Lucy is the one who actually cares for him and Benson just comes home and puts him to bed. But this storyline allowes Mariska go play super mommy and show how wonderful adoptive parents are because she is an adoptive parent.

I’m so sick of Barba behaving like an idiot, his main purpose now seems to be listening to Benson whine. It’s so absurd that he would constantly be dropping by Benson’s apartment, he has a lot better things to do with his life and wouldn’t be dropping all the time, Benson isn’t the center of the universe for everyone, Rollins has a kid of her own ( seemed like this episode  was the first time we were reminded of that in ages ), Fin has a son ( we don’t even know if he’s a grandfather now ), Carisi has several family members in the area and Barba would have much better things to do than act as Benson’s therapist. 

I’m looking forward to Peter Stone coming on now, he is very by the book, upstanding and doesn’t tolerate unethical behavior, much like his dad. Hopefully he can give Barba a wake up call and tell him to stop being stupid and pull his head out of Olivia’s fat ass or he’s going to be unemployed. I just hope they don’t have Benson try to hook up with Stone like she does with every other recurring male character, it’s insane that all of these guys who could do so much better would instead focus their life on trying to please and then hop in bed with 55 year old obese whiny cow Olivia.

[augmentedfourth]

This was one of the better episodes of late, but I feel like SVU so often comes thisclose to actually giving us a "good" episode, and then stumbles at the finish line. In no particular order:

 

All the nuance is just gone from the writing. Maybe audiences as a whole have gotten dumber, and it wouldn't surprise me, but it just seems like the writers are beating us over the head with every single point they want to make just to ensure we truly understand their vision. Olivet's interview with the mother went from 0 to 60 in no time flat. Carisi's "you're a single mom!" speech to Rollins was so blatant and unnatural that even the greatest acting was never going to save it. And so on.

 

I find it really hard to believe that this crew especially would be so gung-ho to try a 15 year old who's essentially been tortured and abused her entire life for murder as an adult. It took Barba that long to figure out the case should go to family court? Or he didn't offer any deals? No way.

 

Can we please declare a moratorium on Benson having flashbacks? She definitely had them about Pablo Schreiber's character (I seem to have blocked out his name, and for good reason). I don't remember if they actually showed her having flashbacks about her undercover prison almost-rape or just talked about the residual issues until her next life trauma. And now flashbacks about Sheila. If she's really experiencing flashbacks this often, maybe she needs to go back for more therapy sessions with Dr. Mr. Noodle.

 

So I won't be a Debbie Downer for the entirety of this post, I will say that it was good to see Olivet and Warner again, and I'm glad that 1) they served a purpose, 2) they got a fair amount of screen time, and 3) they weren't discredited and thrown under a bus at any point.

[Xeliou66]

Agreed, SVU will frequently give a good story for 50 minutes and then shit the bed at the end. All the stuff about where the case should be tried would be decided before the trial, and Barba could’ve just not objected to sending it to family court then, and we should’ve gotten scenes showing all that, but instead we have to get our obligatory dose of the bitch and the brat aka Benson and Noah.

Like I say, I’m looking forward to Peter Stone coming on, I hope he can talk sense into Barba, hope McCoy can as well. Barba has had his personality neutered for the most part, he rarely gets good court scenes and when he is used it’s so he can be Benson’s shoulder to cry on.

[wknt3]

1 hour ago, augmentedfourth said:

This was one of the better episodes of late, but I feel like SVU so often comes thisclose to actually giving us a "good" episode, and then stumbles at the finish line. In no particular order:

 

All the nuance is just gone from the writing. Maybe audiences as a whole have gotten dumber, and it wouldn't surprise me, but it just seems like the writers are beating us over the head with every single point they want to make just to ensure we truly understand their vision. Olivet's interview with the mother went from 0 to 60 in no time flat. Carisi's "you're a single mom!" speech to Rollins was so blatant and unnatural that even the greatest acting was never going to save it. And so on.

 

I find it really hard to believe that this crew especially would be so gung-ho to try a 15 year old who's essentially been tortured and abused her entire life for murder as an adult. It took Barba that long to figure out the case should go to family court? Or he didn't offer any deals? No way.

 

The root cause of this problem is the same as just about every other issue - Mariska's ego and the belief that every episode must be focused on her. It's hard to do nuance in what is essentially now a half hour drama as far as the COTW is concerned. And it's doubly hard when your star and one of the dominant creative forces on the show believes that big is the only way to go (and based on what we have seen when she gets her way entirely like when she directed the 400th episode it's pretty obvious that the writers, directors, and producers actually are forces for restraint. Imagine if we cut the flashbacks, Rollins in Liv's apartment, and the Benson-Barba stuff. We could allow the interview time to develop organically, show Barba offering a deal and being turned down or otherwise setting up why she is being tried as an adult and deliver all the elements that provide for a truly satisfying show. Instead what we get is essentially the Cliff Notes to the script along with 15 minutes of Benoah. It wouldn't surprise me at all if they actually wrote and even filmed scenes that addressed our concerns and they were cut, as we've heard so many times before.

[LaraCroftEyes1]

Good episode

 

Now here come the kicker please don't flame me after watching Gypsy Rose Blanchard documentary her mother I despised the hell she put Gypsy through and I have no sympathy  for Gypsy mother

[Samurai X]

3 hours ago, augmentedfourth said:

 I don't remember if they actually showed her having flashbacks about her undercover prison almost-rape or just talked about the residual issues until her next life trauma.

 

She sure did. A few times. It was also something the show for a bit had to keep mentioning in every case.

[Sake614]

It’s been forever since I served on a jury in NY but we never got badges. Of course the attorneys knew we were on the jury and we recognized them. But I never wore a badge.

back to the episode, I liked it. When Amanda got the call I knew Mariel killed her mother. But I thought the mother showed up at Mariel’s house and threatened her again. Her going to her mother’s house took me by surprise. 

[Sake614]

Wrong thread...

Edited January 14, 2018 by Sake614

[Xeliou66]

26 minutes ago, Sake614 said:

The bar likely has a landline but they use cordless phones. So plugging in an old-school princess phone (I had one for years ?) wasn’t too much of a stretch. And cars do run on computers nowadays so s good hacker can shut it down. That’s one of the biggest concerns with autonomous  vehicles. That a hacker could take over the car and either shut it down or cause an accident/use it aS a weapon. The technology is definitely there, you just need the skills. Pretty scary...

That doesn’t make any sense. You sure you posted this on the right board?

Edited January 14, 2018 by Xeliou66

[ChristiKRN]

I thought this was one of the better episodes of the season, but that is not saying a whole lot.  When SVU has done "ripped-from-the-headlines" stories in the past, they have put their own twist on the story but they really didn't change up the story too much this time.  To me, it seemed they were doing this story more to prop up Benson and Rollins as paragons of motherhood.  It was good to see Warner and Olivet again;  I wish they were more heavily featured, especially Tamara Tunie.  SVU is so desperately lacking a supporting cast, and this type of episode makes me nostalgic for the others, such as Dr. Huang, TARU guy and O'Hallorhan (the forensics guy).  

I hate what they are doing to Barba; they are making him indecisive with the need for guidance from Benson.  Like Xeliou66 said, he should have thrown this to family court from the beginning but after talking to Benson, he throws the case.  There is no way that Barba did not recognize the jurors in the elevator.  What has happened to the Barba we met  a few years ago?

Finally, in what workplace does an employee on leave come in to handle an interrogation or have regular calls/visits from their staff to discuss work-related issues?  Once again, it seems like it is a prop for Benson that SVU can't function without her input and guidance.   It would have been nice to see Fin play a larger part in the episode since he was in charge.; Carisi and Rollins did a good job also.  Anything with Benson was unnecessary in this episode. 

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

When SVU has done "ripped-from-the-headlines" stories in the past, they have put their own twist on the story but they really didn't change up the story too much this time

In this case, the real story is that the Munchausen's victim was 23, pretending to be a young teen, whereas in the L&O SVU version she really is a 15-year-old, which—depending upon at what point in the writing/casting process that change was made—might have lead to the awkward situation in which Barba

2 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

should have thrown this to family court from the beginning

—but last minute they realized it and so tacked on the cute elevator jury machination—which seems to me to be pretty sloppy storytelling, especially assuming that those involved in writing and producing are making at least twice my salary, and probably 5-10 times more.

 

 

2 hours ago, ChristiKRN said:

Finally, in what workplace does an employee on leave come in to handle an interrogation or have regular calls/visits from their staff to discuss work-related issues

I realize this is a rhetorical question, because, obviously, this is not one of those cases where someone on FML should be called in—rather the opposite given that it is a high stress situation. But, perhaps the writers did actually ask that question, and were told that there are benefits—like at my institution—in which employees on short term leave are paid at a rate of 66% of regular pay unless the employee is able to work half time, in which case the employee can earn full pay. But this policy is ostensibly intended to encourage the employee to be able to benefit from the healing properties of being engaged in meaningful work, and in reality is used when the employee cannot afford to lose the pay—neither of which reasons for working while on leave would apply to Benson in this case, IMO. Even given her supervisory position, her involvement would have realistically been restricted to phone and email consultations.

[Sake614]

@Xeliou66 oops! You’re absolutely right. I didn’t even realize I posted in the wrong thread until you asked! ?

[QueenMab]

Benson never leaves that crappy tiny apartment.....ever.  Even when she's on leave. She has a kid. Quality time isn't always about just sitting with your kid, showing lots of attention, and letting him out for an hour at the park. A good mom would take advantage of time off, and take the kid to the beach for a couple of days, let him have fun building sand castles and chasing waves. Or a drive to Amish country in Pennsylvania, she has a car and it's only a couple of hours away. Let the kid run in open pastures, see some farm animals up close, learn to milk a cow. She never goes anywhere with that kid! Just sits with him in that crappy apartment so Uncle Rafa can drop by after work for scotch and guidance. That kid is going to be nuts and not have ANY experiences a kid should have....just for fun. Just sitting with your kid on your lap babbling about a picture book for hours is not being a great mom. Parents expand their children's experiences, and share new, fun times together a kid remembers. That's what a good mom does. She won't take her kid and get out of the city and that possible apartment even when she has the chance. Stop hammering us with what a great mom Benson is......she isn't.

[Sake614]

I would kill for that ‘crappy little apartment’ in Manhattan, lol!

[Aethera]

I know some of us have really strong opinions about Benson, and that's fine. But we all need to remember - no one needs to defend Benson if someone is being hard on her, and no one needs to condemn Benson if someone happens to like her. I think we are all aware at this point of where we each stand on Benson, so let's not have hate and defense of her keep taking over the episode threads, please.

[ari333]

I must be a pushover bc I like all the characters. Not crazy about the kid, but I dont hate him. This is one of a few shows that my hubs and I can watch together. When he saw Brooke, he said, "THAT is grandma?" yeah I felt old.