Season 7 Discussion

[Bridget]

On 1/19/2018 at 5:20 PM, sATL said:

Is the house still in a suburb of Chicago? A couple of little clues made me wonder. 

Ex: the gravel road wouldn't work too well with Chicago snowfall and they do plow the side streets; the curving walkup stairs would be a nightmare to shovel; plowing out a long double wide driveway isn't exactly a homeowner's first choice; little surprised at no basement (which may be common on newer homes in the Midwest now); the scene on the last day has the painted yellow brick on the right of the door and wood siding on the left (I like the natural color of brick).. 

I guess I need to see a scene of them enjoying the house in the winter when it's 10 below. Chicago is full of bldgs with beautiful different shade of  brick on many types of buildings - but not often painted.

I noticed that Michaella said that the tests she's gone for have been expensive. This makes me wonder if Brandon has health insurance or not. I realize that certain fertility procedures (i.e. IVF) are not covered by insurance, but when she was speaking to Dr. Vick about previous tests and a general exam being one of them, I'd think that the general exam would be considered a "well woman exam" and nothing more than a co-pay. 

I've missed a few episodes here and there, but has it been mentioned that adoption is or would ever be off the table for them? I'm curious about adoption and where the Bates family stand on the idea. I'd think since Kelly Jo has an adoptive sister that she'd be all for it.

Michaella and Brandon (more recently) seem like they were born to be parents, especially to kiddos who need lots of love. I would be surprised to find out that adoption wasn't an option for them for whatever reason. Michaella beams when she's in the same room as her younger siblings, and while I know there's some shared DNA going on, I couldn't imagine a better adoptive mother for kids than her. They'd probably be approved in a New York minute.

Lastly, I'm just going to come out and say it: Lawson is SO hot. He's almost too pretty to look at. I realize how I sound, but I can't help it. He's gorgeous. Oh my god. I've had a crush on him for years, despite the age gap and polar opposite belief system in politics and religion. Nathan is a good looking guy too. I wouldn't say no to dating either one of them. At all. Ever. I'm not saying I'd move into a camper in Tennessee, but I'd find a place in the city and have Erin help me decorate it!

I haven't seen a proper thread for my next question, so I apologize if this isn't the right place for this musing, but I've been dying to ask other viewers something.

Does anyone else think that there is the slightest chance that Lawson might be into guys? I'm as liberal as they come, and hate to stereotype any group of people, but Lawson is so damn good looking and he did drop a noticeable amount of weight in between seasons several years ago. Just throwing it out here to see if I'm the only one who thinks it. Statistically, at least two of the children are/could be gay, which is why we maybe haven't seen Lawson appear to be interested in courting and have heard him claiming to be "married to his music." If I am totally wrong and he's not gay, I do love that he's not rushing to the altar ASAP (Nathan too, despite his break up with Ashley in NYC) and realizes that there is more to life than getting married and starting a family as soon as he's old enough to rent a car.

[BitterApple]

Bridget, to answer your question, Gothard is very anti-adoption. He views it as inheriting someone else's baggage. I don't know Kelly's specific stance, but I think she leans in that direction. She was the one who encouraged Zach's wife to distance herself from her adoptive parents and reconnect with her biological family. I think Michael would make a great parent either way, but something tells me the rest of the family would view an adopted kid as a "consolation prize" for not being able to have one of her own.

[iluvobx]

Here is the catch about Gothard and Gil.  Gil is one of the ones that forced Gothard out.

I think that Kelly would support adoption for Michael and Brandon.   Kelly encouraged Whitney to reconnect with her biological parents but not at the expense of her parents.  The Bates clan has been shown at Whitney's parents' house (the ones who raised her).   Kelly herself has an adopted sister, so I do not see her being opposed to adoption.

In the end, it could just be that Michael is trying too hard to get pregnant and that is working against her.  Brandon has told her in the past to just relax and leave it to God.

[Sew Sumi]

That was Whitney's bio parents' home, not her adoptive parents. Her bio parents were also at the hospital when she delivered her children. 

Edited February 1, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[Farmfam]

Insurance thought...I've had a very high risk pregnancy with my daughter while I was employed full time with (good) benefits,  hardly anything was fully covered. I had to max out my deductible twice (daughter was born after re-enrollment period). She was born right after the ACA went into effect, fall 2014.  I now am a SAHM and my husband is self employed so we buy off the marketplace. Again, very little is covered that isn't "preventative care" so we have to max out deductibles again, and pay an awful high premium, I might add.

ACA is fantastic in many aspects, but on the flip side really screws a lot of people with high deductibles, high premiums, and medical bills not considered "preventative". I don't know because I've never looked but fertility exams and treatments may not be fully covered, therefore very expensive. 

[cereality]

I don’t think adoption is off the table for Michael and Brandon.  When they were in Chicago – on the visit that involved Erin – Erin and Michael were in the kitchen and she was talking about her specialist, testing etc. and Erin was trying to be comforting/supportive.  And then Michael says something like – hopefully it happens one day, but if not, I’ll adopt me a baby.  And Erin agreed saying – there’s lots of babies out there that need a mom and dad.  I don’t get the sense that it’s totally off the table for the family bc then it wouldn’t have even crossed Michael’s mind or if it did – Erin – who tends to be opinionated would’ve suggested something negative about adoption/how it’s better to have “your own.”

I do think Brandon and Michael were born to be parents BUT I think the obsession with babies (just like the obsession with marriage) belongs to Michael, not Brandon.  I think he’s great with kids – the way he acts with Jud/Jeb/Ellie/Callie etc. -- BUT I also think that if he didn’t have kids, he’d be perfectly ok.  I could see him enjoying being Uncle Brandon to the million of nieces/nephews they’re surely going to have and if he wanted more, I could also see him branching out his ministering to include something like youth ministry or teaching the next generation of people enrolling in Gothard training/seminary . . . and continuing to do kid focused things like writing children’s books. I see that plus a nice quiet life with Michael being enough for him.  Maybe I’m wrong and he really really desperately wants to spread his seed and is being resentful of Michael for not being able to carry his baby but stays quiet so as not to add pressure to the situation/not wanting to say it on camera.  But IDK I totally don’t get that vibe from him at all.  I feel like he was a reluctant husband (with Michael begging his sisters to convince him to take an interest; and then Michael and Kelly later begging him for a ring). And now he’s settling into the husband role and if the father role doesn’t come – eh . . . .

But I see him going whichever way Michael wants.  If they don’t conceive and want to adopt, I see him being ok with that too.  Though to be frank that will kind of depend on their racial views. There is a “premium” in the US on private adoptions of white babies.  Given that she’s already said that all the infertility testing is already getting expensive and he likely doesn’t make a whole lot in the ministry while living in a big city – they may not be able to afford private adoption fees that are routinely paid by dual income professional couples.  So then it depends on whether they’d be ok with an African American baby.  Kelly’s sister (whose wedding they showed) is AA and appears to be close to several of the girls – including Michael – so perhaps that wouldn’t be an issue for Michael; and who knows where Brandon stands on this!?

[sATL]

Whitney went to college? Graduated? In/for what? Did I hear right,?

[Sew Sumi]

She went to school for medical coding/billing. 

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, cereality said:

I don’t think adoption is off the table for Michael and Brandon.  When they were in Chicago – on the visit that involved Erin – Erin and Michael were in the kitchen and she was talking about her specialist, testing etc. and Erin was trying to be comforting/supportive.  And then Michael says something like – hopefully it happens one day, but if not, I’ll adopt me a baby.  And Erin agreed saying – there’s lots of babies out there that need a mom and dad.  I don’t get the sense that it’s totally off the table for the family bc then it wouldn’t have even crossed Michael’s mind or if it did – Erin – who tends to be opinionated would’ve suggested something negative about adoption/how it’s better to have “your own.”

I do think Brandon and Michael were born to be parents BUT I think the obsession with babies (just like the obsession with marriage) belongs to Michael, not Brandon.  I think he’s great with kids – the way he acts with Jud/Jeb/Ellie/Callie etc. -- BUT I also think that if he didn’t have kids, he’d be perfectly ok.  I could see him enjoying being Uncle Brandon to the million of nieces/nephews they’re surely going to have and if he wanted more, I could also see him branching out his ministering to include something like youth ministry or teaching the next generation of people enrolling in Gothard training/seminary . . . and continuing to do kid focused things like writing children’s books. I see that plus a nice quiet life with Michael being enough for him.  Maybe I’m wrong and he really really desperately wants to spread his seed and is being resentful of Michael for not being able to carry his baby but stays quiet so as not to add pressure to the situation/not wanting to say it on camera.  But IDK I totally don’t get that vibe from him at all.  I feel like he was a reluctant husband (with Michael begging his sisters to convince him to take an interest; and then Michael and Kelly later begging him for a ring). And now he’s settling into the husband role and if the father role doesn’t come – eh . . . .

But I see him going whichever way Michael wants.  If they don’t conceive and want to adopt, I see him being ok with that too.  Though to be frank that will kind of depend on their racial views. There is a “premium” in the US on private adoptions of white babies.  Given that she’s already said that all the infertility testing is already getting expensive and he likely doesn’t make a whole lot in the ministry while living in a big city – they may not be able to afford private adoption fees that are routinely paid by dual income professional couples.  So then it depends on whether they’d be ok with an African American baby.  Kelly’s sister (whose wedding they showed) is AA and appears to be close to several of the girls – including Michael – so perhaps that wouldn’t be an issue for Michael; and who knows where Brandon stands on this!?

I agree with you so much, especially about the bolded sections. She lights up when she's got a sibling in her lap - way too "baby crazy" for my personal preference! Good thing to have if she's a mom at some point, but I always thought it was a bit odd to have legitimate baby fever as a teenager (please note the sarcasm)!

He was totally a reluctant husband! It doesn't help that Michaella seems way more into him than he is into her. I know some people aren't into PDA or prefer to save it for their home, but I truly wonder how they get along, just the two of them, without cameras. 

I'd hope that if adoption is in their future, they'd be thrilled to be parents of any chil(ren), regardless of their skin color or ethnicity. If money is as tight as it looks to be (based on what we know about their lives), the fees alone to adopt might be a major roadblock. During their courting "pestering & nagging from the Bates family to put a ring on it" process, I would have thought that they'd have the crucial pre-wedding conversations about their future, like having kids... and a plan B or C if need be (i.e. adoption), especially when the're a one income family.

If Brandon isn't on board with having kids, biological or not, then she married the wrong guy, hands down. I honestly can't imagine Michaella being happy without at least parenting one child. I know she was probably feeling like a spinster and was husband hunting, but the pressure to marry so young simply sounds unbearable. 

PS: Since she's home all day and they're living in a house outside of the city, it would be great to see her work with children in some capacity. She could easily work part time at a private school in their after school program or at a pre-school, assuming she has the ECE (early childhood education) units. If she hasn't taken the required courses, she could easily take them at a community college, just to have a back-up plan for herself if she ends up not having kids.  She would be earning some money, enriching the lives of the kiddos she's be taking care of and feeling fulfilled by being around kids every day. She's got a natural love for working with wee ones, so I'd love to see her work. I suspect her parents would be proud, especially since they encourage higher education, one of the 273849 reasons I truly love this family.

Except for Tori & Carlin. (Kidding! Kind of.)

Someone please slip some Adderall into their food. 

Bobby is a saint in every sense of the word. 

Edited February 2, 2018 by Bridget

[EVS]

Trace is really starting to resemble Lawson, especially during the basketball scenes.

[cereality]

While I think the Bates girls are a lost cause bc Kelly (and Gil) has brainwashed them since birth that wife-dom and motherhood are ALL that matters and other things like school or work or hobbies – those are nice but meaningless if you aren’t a mom – which has resulted in Tori, Carlin, Josie going to college and locking up any man who didn’t look like John Duggar, whether he could provide or not bc they didn’t want to be in the Michaela boat of being 25-26 and scrambling for a man and begging a Brandon type to marry; I think the Bates sons are watching Zach and Whit’s marriage closely.

I think they (Lawson/Nathan/Trace) have realized there’s no rush to go out and find a stage 5 fundie clinger like Tori or Carlin ASAP bc when the time is right, they can marry a normal Christian and while she’ll feed them and bear their children, she may also have her own interests/job/personality on issues beyond begging for wedding rings and babies.  I think they notice that Zach is alright with these things – frankly more than alright, even happy.  In the TH Zach seemed legitimately proud of Whit for taking her real estate exams and finding the job.  Note how TORI downplayed it the entire time Whit was at the house – oh you don’t have to go the office much right; you’ll mostly work from home right; that’s great that you never have to leave the kids.  Uh – sweetie in the real world in 2018, some moms WANT to leave the home and be away from the kids and have their own work just as much as dads do.  And Whit is fairy modern – walks into the office and gives the guy a casual hug hello and goodbye and at no time did it seem like she was thinking – OMG this guy is hugging me, what do I do, I have to go confess to Zach . . . .

Chad and Erin – how many kids do these morons need?? It’s great that they’ve figured out her fertility issues and they can give her drugs to keep her pregnant but OMG who would think it would be a great idea to undertake high risk pregnancies yearly?? Seems to me now that they’re going for a standard fundie size family of 6-10 kids and all the BS to Dr. Vick of – this is kid 2 of 2 for us – or the TH about how she always knew she wanted 3 is just BS.  And I love the – OMG we’re soooo surprised, every time.  Whit even said that C/E were surprised to be pregnant as Zach laughed.  Um – what do you think will happen if 25-30 yr olds keep having unprotected sex – what did you think that you’d conceive Brooklyn that way but no others after that??

Edited February 3, 2018 by cereality

[Hero]

14 minutes ago, cereality said:

Um – what do you think will happen if 25-30 yr olds keep having unprotected sex –

I absolutely hate when people say they are surprised when they find out they are having a baby, especially in this family. I think we all know that they don't use protection and that, sometimes, ends up with the woman pregnant. 

I would love to know what Gil and Kelly teach their children about sex. I remember Jim bob Duggar saying he gave nasty ass Josh a tape about what to do on his wedding night. Jim bob also told nasty ass josh that having sex was like "legos."

[flyingdi]

Who was the boy wearing the blazing red sweater during the basketball game?

[Absolom]

5 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

Erin seems to have become more comfortable with her role as a mother. I still question her sanity at risking her health to have more and more, but it's not my decision.

I have the same clotting disorder that Erin has.  I was never told that I was risking my health with pregnancy.  What I was told was that I was going to have a higher risk of miscarriage and might want to stop with a normal size family. 

Ratings this week:  273K viewers and a .06 rating.

Edited February 3, 2018 by Absolom

[floridamom]

Since Whitney is already prepared to do medical coding, why doesn't she do that? She can do that at home 24/7...why switch to real estate? I thought they all didn't believe that women should work outside of the home in any capacity. We'll see how long her real estate 'career' lasts. Perhaps until the next baby. I hope they're using some common sense here and plan their OWN lives they way they want to live it out.

[Lisa418722]

Maybe it was my imagination, but Chad didn't seem as excited about the new baby.   I can't help but think about three kids two years old and under.  

On the other hand, I am glad to see Whitney working and Zach supporting her. Hopefully, baby #3 won't come along too quickly and she can actually figure out if she wants to work outside the home.  Nothing wrong with a woman having a career and a family, no matter what Gothard thinks.  

 

[lookeyloo]

I'm thinking maybe Whitney wants to be able to get out of the house.  Medical coding would still require someone to watch the kids if they don't nap at the same time, or at all.  And there is something to be said for getting dressed up nice and being around other grown ups.  I seem to think real estate might take some nights or weekends, unless this is all a big plot line and she will do only enough to get aired on the show.

[Pasha Kitty]

On 2/3/2018 at 5:40 PM, lookeyloo said:

I'm thinking maybe Whitney wants to be able to get out of the house.  Medical coding would still require someone to watch the kids if they don't nap at the same time, or at all.  And there is something to be said for getting dressed up nice and being around other grown ups.  I seem to think real estate might take some nights or weekends, unless this is all a big plot line and she will do only enough to get aired on the show.

I have sold real estate for 20 years, and all of that talk of "you can work from home" is nonsense if one wants to make any money.  You can work from home to do the paperwork relating to your transactions, or to write letters to prospects, etc., but you need to be out of the house, showing houses, hosting open houses, prospecting, etc., in order to get to the offer writing stage.  I am in a busy market area outside of NYC so no comparison to Whit's rural TN locale, but let me tell you, she will need to work her tail off if she wants to make any money.  Not gonna happen 'working from home'.

[lookeyloo]

15 minutes ago, Pasha Kitty said:

I have sold real estate for 20 years, and all of that talk of "you can work from home" is nonsense if one wants to make any money.  You can work from home to do the paperwork relating to your transactions, or to write letters to prospects, etc., but you need to be out of the house, showing houses, hosting open houses, prospecting, etc., in order to get to the offer writing stage.  I am in a busy market area outside of NYC so no comparison to Whit's rural TN locale, but let me tell you, she will need to work her tail off if she wants to make any money.  Not gonna happen 'working from home'.

I guess I wasn’t clear. Real estate will get her out of the house. Medical coding will keep her in the house. She will find out if real estate is for her pretty fast. I don’t think her market will compare to yours. Just how much she wants to be out of the house will become clear to her.  Or it is a plot line just for the show. 

[HahYallDoin]

Did we know before this last episode, re: Erin baking with the younger girls, that Addie has some hearing loss?

 

I know Addie experienced a medical emergency as a little one and the VFD responded and saved her life. I don't remember the details but I'm guessing this incident may have resulted in the hearing loss. Did I miss something previously or is this the first time she's talked enough for it to be apparent? 

[Sew Sumi]

Addie did spend some time in the NICU after her birth. I remember Kelly saying (on the blog, IIRC) that some hearing loss was among the complications Addie suffered. I don't think we've ever heard her speak before, but when I heard her, I immediately recalled what Kelly said. She definitely speaks like someone who is hearing impaired. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[floridamom]

Beautiful, sweet Addallee is also the victim of another fundy home birth. Had Kelly been in a hospital to deliver her, perhaps this could have been avoided. 

[iluvobx]

Michael works as a nanny.  She has for many years.  She did it before the marriage and she continues to do it.  I believe that most of the Bates girls do work.  I know that they took over for Lawson in the landscaping business.  We know that Alyssa works.  Even Erin still works as a piano teacher, so Whitney wanting to work would not be that big of a deal with the Bates.  Whitney may not care if she makes money but more of being with adults for a small amount of time.

Unlike the Duggars, the Bates believe in higher education for all their children.  I can't remember which son didn't want to go to college and Kelly begged him to at least go to a Tech school, at least for a semester.  She told him that he if he wasn't going to college, then he needed a trade.   Both Kelly and Gil hold college degrees (I believe that Kelly has 2 but I could be remembering wrong).

[Sew Sumi]

Actually, Gil QUIT the job at Nabisco to work for himself, as dictated by Gothard. That's what makes their story so alarming;he left a well-paying job to start a new business from the ground up. None of the older boys were old enough to be of any real help to him either. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

Actually, Gil QUIT the job at Nabisco to work for himself, as dictated by Gothard. That's what makes their story so alarming;he left a well-paying job to start a new business from the ground up. None of the older boys were old enough to be of any real help to him either. 

Alarming and stupid. Yes, let's quit a well paying job when you have a constant growing family.

[Sew Sumi]

They weren't anywhere close to being done having kids when Gil quit. 

[BitterApple]

I'd be surprised if Erin can continue teaching piano much longer. With three kids under three and a dwindling supply of sisters available for childcare, it may not be worth the effort. 

[SongbirdHollow]

3 hours ago, XrystalPond said:

I think that potentially the difference with Whitney is that she has taken on a job that is not traditional for the family. Most of the girls who are working have jobs that are at home or that can include their children. The reason I brought up Whitney's real estate job as being a potentially a good inspiration for the younger girls is that 1. She's using Kelly and the older girls as babysitters while she goes to an office, showings, etc. This is seen by those younger girls and would have to leave some impression on them. 2. She is not performing a traditionally female career role such as working with children, cooking, cleaning, etc. 

You have a point. Showing houses is a little risky, meeting strangers all the time at potentially remote locations. I wouldn't really want to do it. I don't know the stats on how many real estate agents are harmed (I'm sure it's low) but for a culture where men and women are always chaperoned, it's a bold choice.

[Loves2Dance]

On 2/3/2018 at 8:10 AM, floridamom said:

Since Whitney is already prepared to do medical coding, why doesn't she do that? She can do that at home 24/7...why switch to real estate? I thought they all didn't believe that women should work outside of the home in any capacity. We'll see how long her real estate 'career' lasts. Perhaps until the next baby. I hope they're using some common sense here and plan their OWN lives they way they want to live it out.

There is a really big push for wives of junior enlisted military members to go to college for billing/coding. There is actually a program that pays for it---I can't for the life of me remember what it is anymore, but when I was looking into it I found that most of the medical/billing coding jobs were the first to be effected by outsourcing and it is incredibly difficult to find a work from home job without years of experience. This was 5 or 6 years ago, but just the other days a friend of mine was venting about a similar situation only she's been doing it for 15 years. So Whitney may have found that there just isn't the job market for it like there was ages ago. 

[cereality]

IDK why I continue to watch this show and be annoyed by it.  Tori, Carlin and Josie (less so for Josie) are so freaking annoying; good luck to the guys marrying these idiots.

Tori is acting like she’s 40 yrs old and has been waiting for her boyfriend to propose for 10 yrs and is desperate bc the clock is ticking.  Bobby moved to Tenn. at the end of the summer – so late Aug/early Sept. 2017 and he proposed in the 3rd week of Sept.  For that THREE week wait, she is acting like it’s been 50 yrs.  The triple date with them and Carlin/Evan; Josie/Kelton was beyond annoying as she was literally begging for the ring – why don’t you propose now; how about here; how about now; ok not 5 min ago, how about now; do you want to do it now?? It’s like when a 4 yr old asks for a cookie 50,000 times and you say no until you lose your mind and then yell at them/put them in timeout.

But then if that wasn’t bad enough – the actual proposal day was worse.  Clearly she knew that was the day – bc he shows up at school with his parents (WTF?) and her sisters are there.  [Nice to see that there is no embarrassment in doing this in front of professors at Crown.  Of course at Crown College of the Bible, engagement is probably the pinnacle of a female student’s life.  You’d be getting some major side eye from my old ivy league professors if your boyfriend showed up with his parents and your sisters to whisk you away but oh first there were going to make use of a classroom as their beauty parlor to make sure girlfriend looked good.] At that point, it’s clear he’s whisking her away to propose – so why not BE QUIET and enjoy the day and see how it unfolds??

Nope.  They head over to a mountain to eat lunch first he asks – what do you feel like [eating], she says – I feel like a ring.  And then 50 times during lunch.  Then they’re walking to the actual lookout mountain for the proposal (which she had to be sensing) and it’s – where’s the ring; I know you have it; it’s not in your pockets; where is it; I want it . . . . Damn, just give the boy a strip search right there in the forest.  And she literally did not SHUT UP until he started talking about their time on earth . . . wth?! (I know it’s a religious theme but still).  And then of course immediately after – OMG I look weird with a ring on, fishing for compliments from him/her parents/his parents about how she and the ring are gorgeous.  I don’t understand how he doesn’t tell her to STFU.  His parents kind of did on the 3 hour ride from Tenn. to NC where his dad says – do you understand being told things on a need to know basis?? Damn.  Of course airhead didn’t get it and didn’t know what that meant.

And Carlin was no less annoying on the triple date with the whole MY MAN looks good.  Um – your man – and all the men are wearing button downs (that they didn’t bother to iron) tucked into pants.  Have you really never seen business casual before??

Only guy I liked was Kelton – who you can tell is watching Bobby and the Bates family closely.  At one point he actually says – so is it a big deal to get their whole family involved in special occasions?  Bobby then schools him on the expectations, and you can tell Kelton thinks it’s ridiculous as he says – BUT there’s 18 siblings, how do you involve them; and how would you keep a secret?? I think Kelton and Josie are going to be a bit like Alyssa and John – they’ll start to pull away from the family asap after marriage . . . .

[Loves2Dance]

11 minutes ago, cereality said:

IDK why I continue to watch this show and be annoyed by it.  Tori, Carlin and Josie (less so for Josie) are so freaking annoying; good luck to the guys marrying these idiots.

Tori is acting like she’s 40 yrs old and has been waiting for her boyfriend to propose for 10 yrs and is desperate bc the clock is ticking.  Bobby moved to Tenn. at the end of the summer – so late Aug/early Sept. 2017 and he proposed in the 3rd week of Sept.  For that THREE week wait, she is acting like it’s been 50 yrs.  The triple date with them and Carlin/Evan; Josie/Kelton was beyond annoying as she was literally begging for the ring – why don’t you propose now; how about here; how about now; ok not 5 min ago, how about now; do you want to do it now?? It’s like when a 4 yr old asks for a cookie 50,000 times and you say no until you lose your mind and then yell at them/put them in timeout.

But then if that wasn’t bad enough – the actual proposal day was worse.  Clearly she knew that was the day – bc he shows up at school with his parents (WTF?) and her sisters are there.  [Nice to see that there is no embarrassment in doing this in front of professors at Crown.  Of course at Crown College of the Bible, engagement is probably the pinnacle of a female student’s life.  You’d be getting some major side eye from my old ivy league professors if your boyfriend showed up with his parents and your sisters to whisk you away but oh first there were going to make use of a classroom as their beauty parlor to make sure girlfriend looked good.] At that point, it’s clear he’s whisking her away to propose – so why not BE QUIET and enjoy the day and see how it unfolds??

Nope.  They head over to a mountain to eat lunch first he asks – what do you feel like [eating], she says – I feel like a ring.  And then 50 times during lunch.  Then they’re walking to the actual lookout mountain for the proposal (which she had to be sensing) and it’s – where’s the ring; I know you have it; it’s not in your pockets; where is it; I want it . . . . Damn, just give the boy a strip search right there in the forest.  And she literally did not SHUT UP until he started talking about their time on earth . . . wth?! (I know it’s a religious theme but still).  And then of course immediately after – OMG I look weird with a ring on, fishing for compliments from him/her parents/his parents about how she and the ring are gorgeous.  I don’t understand how he doesn’t tell her to STFU.  His parents kind of did on the 3 hour ride from Tenn. to NC where his dad says – do you understand being told things on a need to know basis?? Damn.  Of course airhead didn’t get it and didn’t know what that meant.

And Carlin was no less annoying on the triple date with the whole MY MAN looks good.  Um – your man – and all the men are wearing button downs (that they didn’t bother to iron) tucked into pants.  Have you really never seen business casual before??

Only guy I liked was Kelton – who you can tell is watching Bobby and the Bates family closely.  At one point he actually says – so is it a big deal to get their whole family involved in special occasions?  Bobby then schools him on the expectations, and you can tell Kelton thinks it’s ridiculous as he says – BUT there’s 18 siblings, how do you involve them; and how would you keep a secret?? I think Kelton and Josie are going to be a bit like Alyssa and John – they’ll start to pull away from the family asap after marriage . . . .

Amen, amen, amen. 

I want to shove the rink down Tori's throat so she chokes on it---I mean, that probably makes me sound like a sociopath, but she seriously said the word like 500 times. 

Carlin's "my man looks hot' comment didn't bug me---even if you have seen business casual, I think it's totally normal to think your man stands out. 

As for Josie and Kelton---they will absolutely be the next Alyssa and John but with a whole lot more money. I never realized how much like her sister she was until this episode. I did notice that Carlin and Evan and Tori and Bobby were continually holding hands across the table at lunch and Josie and Kelton were not. 

[cereality]

Didn't notice they didn't hold hands. Fundies tend to hold hands all the time to show everyone -- MY MAN, unless they are fairly reserved with Josie seems to be. Josie was also sitting there doing homework in their little nook and when Tori and Carlin came and gossiped about their men/engagement etc. -- Josie really didn't participate. And when asked she deferred and said -- we're going slow. She's close with Alyssa and is really similar to her -- super private. I don't recall scenes with Alyssa ever gossiping about John with her sisters when they were courting. I feel like she went out there courted, dated him as privately as possible (though this was back in the day where they required chaperones -- but I think she probably picked people like Josie who wouldn't tell anything about the date and also wouldn't ask Alyssa questions about it), got married and got the hell out of dodge. She and Kelton will do well financially -- a plumber and a cosmetology/hair stylist; I can see them getting a NICE house in the middle class suburbs of Tenn. -- no cottage living for them like Chad/Erin or homestead living like Ma/Pa Bates. Even on the date, she said something about how Kelton goes downtown all the time and knows all the good places. Meanwhile I think Carlin said something about ooooh this place is SOOOO expensive as they were walking in. Um -- it's a bar/grill. I think Kelton makes money to where going places with a $15-20 entrée and spending $50 on a date with Josie is NBD.

Watching this proposal it’s becoming pretty clear that they’ve school their girls such that getting a husband is just about checking the box – so you aren’t a spinster and have kids.  To them getting a husband is an obligation and accomplishment the same way getting a college degree is that for most people in 2018.

The whole time Tori was crowing about getting a ring – not about marrying him; not about being together forever.  When she gets the ring – literally before yes, she talks about how gorgeous the ring is.  HE was the one even mentioning their lives together etc.

Also thought it was interesting that Zach and Whit are of the opinion that proposals have become over the top and Whit says someone just has to break the cycle by getting on one knee and saying “will you marry me.”  The most down to earth proposals have been Alyssa/John (unsurprisingly) and Zach/Whit – both just proposed on the beach in Fl. with no particular fanfare (beyond Zach making a heart in the sand and leaving some flowers by the heart).  It was particularly down to earth for John since he lived there and it was just going out to dinner locally and proposing beforehand at the beach.  Zach did whisk Whit on a 2 day vacation to be able to go to Disney and the beach to propose.

Most over the top – unsurprisingly was Chad/Erin complete with a horse drawn carriage, Prince Chad singing and of course weeping quietly.  Michael/Brandon was ludicrous as well with a fundie scavenger hunt all over DC with 50,000 Keilen family members hiding clues all over town and making sure they weren’t tampered with/destroyed by passersby in a big city.  I guess Bobby/Tori wasn’t that over the top as they were just on a mountain lookout surrounded by cheap candles and 2 bouquets of flowers – but it was 3+ hours away (when there are mountains in Tenn.) felt needy and over the top due to her desperation and family members having to go place to place to have said cheap candles and flowers set up “just right.”

[BitterApple]

Tori and Carlin are lucky they live in a cult where men are expected to marry the first girl who gives them a tingle in their pants, because that sort of behavior in the real world would send a guy running for the hills. 

[floridamom]

Could Tori have been more annoying? She wouldn't shut up about getting a ring. If I were her boyfriend, I would have dumped her at that point. She sucked out all the joy for that guy to propose to her. It was clearly her idea, her thing and her timing. He simply had to provide the ring. She sounded like a desperate woman. His parents should have advised him to seek someone a bit more mature. My opinion is that most of the Bates children are quite immature and emotionally behave like children. ...Chad had a Cinderella like carriage proposal? I didn't know that. Nothing says little girl more to me than a grown woman modeling her life after Cinderella and decorating her home like a little doll house, pink bedspread included.

I was glad to finally hear Kelly and Gil ADMIT that parents have to trust their own grown children A LITTLE. Glad no little kid or chaperone had to accompany three couples out to an afternoon lunch 'date'. I doubt any of them would have attempted to have sex in the car. Perhaps they will let the barbed wire down on the fence around their childrens' lives and give them SOME breathing room.

[answerphone]

The girls are very pretty, but what an annoying snooze fest.

Where's my ring? Where's my ring? I always thought Carlin was the extra talkative, annoying sister, but Tori is right up there, too.

[Misslindsey]

Tori was annoying with the constant ring talk. I read on the Bates Family Blog that she and Bobby are moving to the Nashville area, because Bobby has a job at a church there. I guess Tori wants to use her teaching degree at some christian school nearby. Of course, that really means until she gets pregnant.

I agree that Josie and Kelton are the ones that will probably do pretty well if they get married. I guess Josie graduated in December and passed her licensing exam. Kelton is a plumber and has a finance degree. The ones I will be curious to see is Evan and Carlin. I have no idea what Carlin's major is and I really do not know how much income Evan generates with his family band.

I guess with the Bates girls I am just glad they have other things to do. I think most of them went to college. I know it is Clown College, but with this lot I will take it. Alyssa helps clean with John, Erin has piano lessons/albums, and Michael still babysits and I think tries to sell clothes that she makes online. I feel like in fundie-land that is more than some other families allow their girl children to do. It seems they have a leg up on the Duggars when their television shows disappear.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Misslindsey

[flyingdi]

I get that Tori is supposed to come off as cute and excitable and spontaneous but she seriously comes off as grating and annoying!

Half of the kids are coming off as annoying to me except maybe Trace.  I enjoy Trace's unique fashion sense.

Just give me a half hour of Jud and Jeb explaining things from the couch and be done with it!

[iluvobx]

17 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

Actually, Gil QUIT the job at Nabisco to work for himself, as dictated by Gothard. That's what makes their story so alarming;he left a well-paying job to start a new business from the ground up. None of the older boys were old enough to be of any real help to him either. 

Did he quit or was he part of the workforce that was laid off?  I thought I heard/read that he was laid off.  My B-I-L worked for Nabisco and he was laid off after several years.  

I have never thought that the Bates drank the Gothard kool-aid like the Duggars.  I know that Gil was part of the group that ousted Gothard.  The Bates has always been more open to things than that other group plus they are highly educated.

[IndianPaintbrush]

13 hours ago, cereality said:

Also thought it was interesting that Zach and Whit are of the opinion that proposals have become over the top and Whit says someone just has to break the cycle by getting on one knee and saying “will you marry me.” 

I haven't been able to watch the show since giving up cable, but I just wanted to say AMEN and HOORAY that Zach & Whit feel this way. 

[Squirrely]

2 hours ago, iluvobx said:

 

I have never thought that the Bates drank the Gothard kool-aid like the Duggars.  I know that Gil was part of the group that ousted Gothard.  The Bates has always been more open to things than that other group plus they are highly educated.

That's because the Bateses are much more savvy in how they present themselves. They are every bit as much entrenched in Gothardism. Gil is/was on the board of directors. Chad and Erin had a birthday cake for Gothard at their wedding! Brandon works for IBLP. Don't let looser dating rules and better personalities fool you. Lots of Gothardites wear pants and go to fake college. The Bateses are a million times more dangerous than the Duggars for this very reason. They make it look more mainstream than it is. 

 

Ditto on all the comments about wanting to shove that ring where the sun doesn't shine. Tori made that unbearable to watch.

Josie and Kelton weren't holding hands because they weren't officially courting yet. In Batesland you can when you're courting, per Carlin who announced it after Evan asked her. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Squirrely
Typo

[tabloidlover]

On ‎2‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 9:52 AM, iluvobx said:

Here is the catch about Gothard and Gil.  Gil is one of the ones that forced Gothard out.

 

Ooooo!  I didn't know that Gil was part of that.

[Bridget]

6 hours ago, Misslindsey said:

Tori was annoying with the constant ring talk. I read on the Bates Family Blog that she and Bobby are moving to the Nashville area, because Bobby has a job at a church there. I guess Tori wants to use her teaching degree at some christian school nearby. Of course, that really means until she gets pregnant.

I agree that Josie and Kelton are the ones that will probably do pretty well if they get married. I guess Josie graduated in December and passed her licensing exam. Kelton is a plumber and has a finance degree. The ones I will be curious to see is Evan and Carlin. I have no idea what Carlin's major is and I really do not know how much income Evan generates with his family band.

I guess with the Bates girls I am just glad they have other things to do. I think most of them went to college. I know it is Clown College, but with this lot I will take it. Alyssa helps clean with John, Erin has piano lessons/albums, and Michael still babysits and I think tries to sell clothes that she makes online. I feel like in fundie-land that is more than some other families allow their girl children to do. It seems they have a leg up on the Duggars when their television shows disappear.

 

I haven't watched it yet, but I can tell I will be Ffwdg through most of it except to see the great wisdom spouted by Judson & Jeb. Someone needs to come up with a line of greeting cards, a calendar or a coffee table book featuring those two & their explanations about things/events. I also want to watch Bobby's dad tell Tori to settle her tea kettle. I couldn't even handle Tori during the previews. 

Not sure if anyone else watched 90 Day Fiance, but when I read the comment about Evan & his "band", I had flashbacks of last season's 90DF cast member, Evelyn, who had a family band too. She was a straight up terrible "singer", but was determined to make a living from music. It's near impossible and I doubt Carlin will end up doing anything for a living that will support them both.

I come from the music community and I know musicians who worked full time until they were able to quit their jobs and earn a good living playing music full time. They're all doing very well (financially & "popularity") now, but they weren't selling out venues overnight.

It kills me when young people profess to be "a full time working musician" before they're old enough to drink, rent a car or run for public office. 

I'm glad all of the kids are encouraged to go to Clown College, especially the girls. Even if they end up not working for a long time and staying at home to pop out kids, they are a great example to the younger girls, just like Whitney is by "going somewhere" to work. The little girls grow up seeing their older sisters go to college, as do the younger boys, so the idea of higher education or learning a vocational skill that will provide income isn't foreign, scary or weird to them.

I do wonder why they're only taught a small handful of adjectives (just like the Duggars) to describe moments that clearly deserve more distinction and differentiation than "special" or "neat." I'm waiting for the day when one of the Bates kids uses a word like magnificent, tremendous, spectacular or astonishing. It'll probably be Judson or Jeb. No shocker there. :)

Edited February 9, 2018 by Bridget

[Sew Sumi]

2 hours ago, tabloidlover said:

Ooooo!  I didn't know that Gil was part of that.

As was Dr. Paine, Chad's father. This is why I subscribe to the theory that Cherin still follow Gothard's belief system, despite denouncing the man himself since the overthrow. 

eta: Carlin appears to be studying music in some form. The book she opened to "study" from had a giant treble clef on its cover. 

And holy jeebus Tori, enough about the damned "rink." At least pronounce it properly! With all the Thursday TV offerings, with the Olympics now added to the mix, I watched this crap right before bed. Never again. I need to dial it down, not hear a bunch of shrieking. Tori REALLY grated when she actually COMPLAINED about how the "rink" looked on her finger. If I was Bobby, I would have taken the thing back and rescinded the proposal. Well, he's stuck with her nagging now. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by Sew Sumi

[BitterApple]

1 hour ago, Sew Sumi said:

As was Dr. Paine, Chad's father. This is why I subscribe to the theory that Cherin still follow Gothard's belief system, despite denouncing the man himself since the overthrow. 

eta: Carlin appears to be studying music in some form. The book she opened to "study" from had a giant treble clef on its cover. 

And holy jeebus Tori, enough about the damned "rink." At least pronounce it properly! With all the Thursday TV offerings, with the Olympics now added to the mix, I watched this crap right before bed. Never again. I need to dial it down, not hear a bunch of shrieking. Tori REALLY grated when she actually COMPLAINED about how the "rink" looked on her finger. If I was Bobby, I would have taken the thing back and rescinded the proposal. Well, he's stuck with her nagging now. 

 

I didn't see the epi, but wow, Tori complained?! I thought her ring was beautiful and much better than the pieces of crap Fundie girls usually get. 

Edited February 9, 2018 by BitterApple

[Sew Sumi]

Everyone else crowed over how beautiful the ring was. Tori just kept using weird adjectives that sounded off. Maybe she expected a 2 carat rock or something? Her reaction wasn't what I expected, especially after all the begging she'd put poor Bobby through.

Edited February 10, 2018 by Sew Sumi
Not carrot, autocorrect!

[Absolom]

The episode did not break the top 150 cable shows of the night.

[Misslindsey]

I have to admit that when Bobby did not know where his mother put the ring that it would accidentally be knocked off the edge. Then Bobby could have told Tori if she wanted the ring so much she could retrieve it. Though that probably would have given us way more of her asking "where is the ring?" over and over.

[Loves2Dance]

4 hours ago, Absolom said:

The episode did not break the top 150 cable shows of the night.

Not surprising. It was a poorly crafted episode, I imagine most people turned it off after hearing the word ring 50 times...so around minute 2. 

[andromeda331]

Yeah Tori was so annoying! I know she was excited but she would not shut up about the proposal. Wait and enjoy Tori, you know its coming. I don't understand why they act so desperate. Like their forty and never dated instead of in their late teens or early twenties and this is the first boy they like.  Is the desperation really active to boys? Every boy I ever knew would to run for the hills not find it cute or adorable. Same Carlin's 'my man'. Josie was the only sensible one out of the bunch. 

I agree about Jeb and Judson. Just let them talk for a half hour or maybe throw Allie into the mix.  Or Callie. 

9 hours ago, Sew Sumi said:

As was Dr. Paine, Chad's father. This is why I subscribe to the theory that Cherin still follow Gothard's belief system, despite denouncing the man himself since the overthrow. 

eta: Carlin appears to be studying music in some form. The book she opened to "study" from had a giant treble clef on its cover. 

And holy jeebus Tori, enough about the damned "rink." At least pronounce it properly! With all the Thursday TV offerings, with the Olympics now added to the mix, I watched this crap right before bed. Never again. I need to dial it down, not hear a bunch of shrieking. Tori REALLY grated when she actually COMPLAINED about how the "rink" looked on her finger. If I was Bobby, I would have taken the thing back and rescinded the proposal. Well, he's stuck with her nagging now. 

Ah, yes the very nice Dr. Paine who married his daughter off to rapist and told one girl Gothard sexually harassed to eat a protein bar.  That's exactly someone you want on the board of anything.  

[Tdoc72]

I’m kind of surprised that Tori didn’t ransack the trailer, find the ring and then pop it on her own hand. Jesus Christ, she’s been super annoying ever since Bobby was first planning to move there.