Season 7 Discussion

[Sew Sumi]

Discuss Carlin's courtship and Tori's engagement (and end of season wedding episode) here! And babies! Always more babies! 

[realitytvbitch980]

This episode was pretty good. Maybe its just me, but I feel like Carlin is really over the top and dramatic, though lol. I always wonder, would these boys go all out like this for a courtship if it wasn't being filmed for TV? I'm guessing no. 

[zenme]

The whole thing is over the top. I mean, people flying in, granted, they came in for church dedication or whatever, but still. It's just too  over the top.

[realitytvbitch980]

Okay, I'm glad someone else notices how over the top it is, lol. I mean, people become boyfriend and girlfriend everyday, and its never that over the top. I guess for them, though, its a super big deal haha. 

[flyingdi]

I know its been discussed many times on the Duggar threads whether the parents have favorites.  What about the Bates?  Do you think Gil and Kelly Jo have favorites?  I think two of Gil's are Michael and Alyssa but I don't know about Kelly.

[zenme]

I think Kelly likes Michael  and Trace. 

[sadtvjunkie]

I bet Zach , Chad, and John are happy they weren't filming when they courted and got engaged and married. How do you top that the next time? It's like little kids birthday parties where I live, too much for the occasion. What happened to inviting kids to play in the backyard and some cake?

[Squirrely]

Yeah, that was way OTT! 

Carlin would exhaust me if I had to spend more than 10 minutes in her company.

I don't understand courtship in the Bates family now. I know they've loosened up the rules due to the broken courtships, but now it seems pointless. They're already "boyfriend/girlfriend" so why the courtship brouhaha before engagement? It makes no sense to me. 

It's nice that they're not as uptight as the damned Duggars are now, but it's still so bizarre. 

[zenme]

I had to keep asking myself, "Wait, they're just courting, right?"

[andromeda331]

That's what I kept asking. All that to for something that's not a proposal? What is the point of Bates courtship? They're dating, their calling each other boyfriend and girlfriend, everyone knows their hearts aren't protected (see Zach and Nathan's first courtships). So why not let them get engaged at this point?              

[riverblue22]

I must say Evan (?) did an outstanding job on that courtship event, but he should have saved it for the engagement.  How will he ever top that?  And now Carlin can hold hands...don't the Duggars wait until engagement for that amazing event? 

I feel a little bit better about Evan.  His musical family is actually competent and professional and maybe he will be able to make a living doing that (a far cry from the pathetic Rodrigues traveling musicians).  And Carlin evidently plans to join the musical family and has probably already sung with them at times.  So her future is to be a traveling singer I guess.  Also, her outsize personality may do well on stage.

[JessDVD]

You can think this is dorky if you want and I'm OK with that, but some of my friends and I use the phrase "hold hands" as a euphemism for a different sort of marital activity and it is very, very important when reading stuff about the Bates to be reading that term literally.

Anyway - I think the OTT courtships are about half and half doing it up for the camera and a product of the culture that has brought us the word (cringe, shudder) promposal.

[answerphone]

Does anyone else think the production team helped a bit with the creative aspects of his courtship proposal?

And the financial aspects, also!!!  

I thought it went from sweet and romantic to overdone and dorky.

[Absolom]

Ratings:  352K viewers and a .09 rating.

Definitely too much producer involvement I think.

[lookeyloo]

11 hours ago, answerphone said:

Does anyone else think the production team helped a bit with the creative aspects of his courtship proposal?

And the financial aspects, also!!!  

I thought it went from sweet and romantic to overdone and dorky.

Yes. Scripted reality. We see what they present to us. Not their real every day lives. I would be happy with a once or twice a year special just to update us on everyone. I find myself bored with the production team driven shows. 

[Saltgypsie]

On 1/5/2018 at 8:46 PM, Absolom said:

Ratings:  352K viewers and a .09 rating.

Definitely too much producer involvement I think.

is this good????

[Absolom]

9 hours ago, Saltgypsie said:

is this good????

No.  It's almost only a third of their original ratings.

[Saltgypsie]

3 hours ago, Absolom said:

No.  It's almost only a third of their original ratings.

thanks for explaining it to me!

[Evagirl]

My favorite parts of all the shows are when they interview the two baby boys.  Wow! Those little guys are so doggone cute! When the one who always sit on the left of the TV screen tried to do air quotes, I had to laugh. You knew he'd seen somebody in the family do that when talking about the couple who were dating. I could watch and listen to them every week.

I would imagine that Lawson, Nathan, and Trace are dating, but not wanting it to be a spectacle like the 3 girls' relationships. 

 

One thing I  can say about Gill & Kelly Jo - they made 19 really good-looking kids!

[Tahitigirl]

Quote

On January 5, 2018 at 1:46 PM, zenme said:

I had to keep asking myself, "Wait, they're just courting, right?"

 

No kidding!

It was a far cry from Jessa Dugger's broom closet courtship!

[sATL]

Was that a Pandora charm bracelet Evan gave her?

Gil/Kelly are so involved in this & they really should rain in the courtship production. What if the relationship doesn't lead to marriage? 

I personally wouldn't want the whole day of doing a scavenger hunt. I would have been fine with the River boat lunch (just so the parents could talk) and the Dam park scene. Then after church, the next day, do the eating at Erin's house. And did they eat at the park? If so-that is 3 meals really close together.

Carlin opening the oven door with her bare foot. Now that is country.

[gunderda]

14 hours ago, sATL said:

Was that a Pandora charm bracelet Evan gave her?

Gil/Kelly are so involved in this & they really should rain in the courtship production. What if the relationship doesn't lead to marriage? 

I personally wouldn't want the whole day of doing a scavenger hunt. I would have been fine with the River boat lunch (just so the parents could talk) and the Dam park scene. Then after church, the next day, do the eating at Erin's house. And did they eat at the park? If so-that is 3 meals really close together.

Carlin opening the oven door with her bare foot. Now that is country.

I thought I spied Pandora on the inside of the box too. 

And then with Josie's birthday party... that small group of them went out for ice cream just to come home to a giant meal and MORE ice cream and cake. 

[IndianPaintbrush]

On 1/5/2018 at 0:56 PM, flyingdi said:

I know its been discussed many times on the Duggar threads whether the parents have favorites.  What about the Bates?  Do you think Gil and Kelly Jo have favorites?  I think two of Gil's are Michael and Alyssa but I don't know about Kelly.

I think Kelly and Michaela have a very close relationship, as evidenced by the fact that Kelly was Michaela's matron of honor. And I think Gil's favorites are Erin and Alyssa. But the Bates parents are pretty good about not showing favoritism.

[Patricia07]

Does Carlin know how to read?  It sure seemed like she doesn't.  And pulling the oven door open with her foot was disgusting.  

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Patricia07 said:

Does Carlin know how to read?  It sure seemed like she doesn't.  And pulling the oven door open with her foot was disgusting.  

Carlin was the one who couldn't identify broccoli at the grocery store, so it wouldn't surprise me if she was lacking in the intellect department. 

[flyingdi]

6 hours ago, IndianPaintbrush said:

I think Kelly and Michaela have a very close relationship, as evidenced by the fact that Kelly was Michaela's matron of honor. And I think Gil's favorites are Erin and Alyssa. But the Bates parents are pretty good about not showing favoritism.

I just remember both Gil and Alyssa saying Alyssa was "Daddy's little girl."

I also remember Gil spending half of Michael's wedding episode telling Jeb, "We can't let Michael go. We've got to figure out how to keep her, Jeb!". I know he was joking but I don't remember him saying it about the other girls.

[ChicksDigScars]

Probably because Michaela was the sister-nanny, much like Jana Duggar. Fortunately, Michaela was smart enough to GET OUT OF DODGE. Maybe because she knows that her mother isn't detached, distant and uncomfortable actually taking care of her own children. Jana leaving would be more of an abandonment. 

I haven't kept up with the Bates, but I happen to catch this episode, and the previews that went along with it for the upcoming season. They did show Michaela and Brandon (is that her husband's name?) getting tests done. I assume this is why they haven't had babies, yet? I mean, they've been married longer than Jinger and Jeremy, have, right? 

[Sew Sumi]

Yes, they've been married about 2 1/2 years. 

[sATL]

3 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

 

I haven't kept up with the Bates, but I happen to catch this episode, and the previews that went along with it for the upcoming season. They did show Michaela and Brandon (is that her husband's name?) getting tests done. I assume this is why they haven't had babies, yet? I mean, they've been married longer than Jinger and Jeremy, have, right? 

And wasn't that the same Dr who helped/diagnosed Erin's blood clotting condition? If so I was thinking going 500 miles to see a dr and do blood work is a little much given Micheala/Brandon live in a major city. Surely it couldn't be for insurance reasons. And b/c of HIPPA , the TN Dr cannot discuss/compare Erin's medical concerns - unless Erin gave consent.

[birkenstock]

The doctor does look like Dr. Vick.  Michael mentioned to Erin that she was seeing a highly-regarded fertility specialist in Chicago during the episode Erin, Kelly, and a few of the kids visited the Keilans.  It would be so impractical and costly to have to go to TN for testing.  I'm wondering if that Dr. refused to be filmed and they are using Dr. Vick as a sort of place holder for the show?    

Edited January 10, 2018 by birkenstock

[SoCalAgain]

So I just saw the Carlin courtship episode, and I have to say, as much as I love the Bates ( and I say that as a Heathen Jew), this was utterly ridiculous.   Can’t believe the whole family was involved.  I had to turn it off.  The whole courtship thing is stupid anyway-call it what it is- an engagement. This was cringy over the top behavior from all of them. 

[PradaKitty]

I do have to say it again, the Bates Family sure seems to enjoy life much more than the Duggars. 

[answerphone]

I usually think of Erin a being a contemporary, modern young woman.

And then I saw her bowling in the Duggarish floor-length skirt. 

That's super fundie conservative clothing. ?

[Sew Sumi]

Yeah, Erin's outfits tonight, including her dress in the TH segments, were horribly frumpy. 

And please, make shabby country chic go away! I was curious as to what Brandon considered "modern," but he obviously lost that one. 

[EVS]

I was afraid Erin would trip on that long skirt while bowling. 

[realitytvbitch980]

Totally off topic here, but I'm honestly stunned Lawson hasn't snatched up some girl yet. I mean, come on. He plays guitar, he's good with kids, etc. I don't get it lol. Maybe I'm the only one who wonders this. 

[BitterApple]

58 minutes ago, realitytvbitch980 said:

Totally off topic here, but I'm honestly stunned Lawson hasn't snatched up some girl yet. I mean, come on. He plays guitar, he's good with kids, etc. I don't get it lol. Maybe I'm the only one who wonders this. 

Just my take, but it wouldn't surprise me if Lawson's already gotten laid or had a girlfriend in Nashville that Ma and Pa Kettle don't know about. He's a bachelor, but doesn't give off that desperate, ready-to-give-up-on-life vibe that you see with JD.

[Absolom]

Lawson seemed fairly broken up over Jinger marrying someone one else.  They'd been seen together a bit before Jeremy showed up.

Rating:  271K viewers and a .07 rating.

[cereality]

Watched both the Carlin courtship and the Chicago episode last night.

The courtship episode -- confirmed how freaking annoying and shrill Carlin really is. Also, does she have trouble reading? I get it if you're soooo excited that you can't think of the answers to the clues, but what prevents you from being able to read out loud? Fortunately Evan does not have the same reading impediment. The entire thing was stupid and the family sounded stupid for gushing over it. The scavenger hunt was kind of a knock off of 10-15 yrs ago when that was an "interesting" way to propose -- and that's also how Brandon proposed to Michael. And the song -- I know the family was sooooo impressed at the song he wrote, but am I the only one who thought it was a simple song that a 7th grade boy crushing on a girl could've written with simple rhyming words? And what exactly is the big deal about holding hands post-courtship? Evan actually asked Gil if he could. Um -- you've been front hugging for months. I'm pretty sure feeling her breasts on your body is more intimate than holding her hand.

Chicago -- am I the only one that sees the sisters being condescending to/about Michael bc they feel they are "better" than her and bc they know she won't say anything back (as opposed to Tori or Carlin who'd bitch slap you)? I'm sure the producers wanted Erin to bring up Michael's fertility issues -- and TBH -- I'm sure Erin was dying to know too and wanted to make sure it was discussed while they were there. This time Michaela seemed more "accepting" of the whole thing. The major tests have been done and it sounds like they reveal nothing wrong/nothing that needs to be done, and she needs to get one more test and after that one they will take a break and "just enjoy each other." I think that's dr. code for-- there's nothing medically wrong with you, it's possible your timing etc. hasn't worked out yet, keep trying and it'll likely happen for you. Doesn't sound tragic and more importantly this time Michaela didn't look like it was tragic to her as she said "it can take much of your adult life," Of course Erin HAS to jump in with "awwww Michael, is there a plan B" -- to make her feel bad when maybe she didn't. Reality is they're not even 30, if they keep trying and it happens in 5 yrs -- is it the end of the world?? I know to this family, it probably is but come on, they won't even be 35 then. It's not like they married at 45!?

And I was kind of pissed for Michaela when in the TH with the middle sister, Carlin obnoxiously says -- her apartment is sooooo small, it's like a dog house with people living in it. How very Christian of you to put down someone for their material goods. You can tell the sisters are competitive with each other and put each other down with a smile on their face in that "OMG I was totally kidding" kind of way. At least Brandon has a job -- which I think provided that housing. Let's see your fiancé -- who isn't even that talented but sings in a family fundie band -- could provide you a better apartment not in bumblef---k TN but in the city of Chicago!? And as Tori laughed along, I guess she has forgotten that her sweetie is moving to TN and only has a job bc fortunately Chad is quitting his and will be living in a freaking trailer -- not even a small apartment!?

And I agree with the above -- Lawson seems like a VERY content bachelor. Which leads me to believe that he is a handsome guy who is out there in Nashville dating, kissing girls, and (if he chooses) having sex. But even if he isn't having sex, I think he's not as desperate as fundies like Bobby/Chad/Joe Duggar/Austin Forsyth were to get married bc he is interacting with females at some level so he doesn't have to dream about the day where ask someone to court and then get a hug or a kiss from a girl.

[cereality]

^ and if the sisters are in fact competitive and jealous of each other even quietly, well Tori and Carlin should get ready to be super jealous of Josie. Her intended posted on IG about how with below freezing temps for an entire week in Knoxville, half the city has frozen pipes and he is all over town fixing them and even got interviewed by the local NBC station about it. He is a skilled tradesmen who will make a good living and he and Josie will have a nice home, cars, vacations etc. Evan is apparently looking to be a traveling singer for love offerings and Bobby was telling Chad he's being called to the ministry -- but I guess is realizing he needs $$ so will take on Chad's job at the scrap yard until he can find a ministry that pays him; I suspect Evan will take on/keep a similar kind of job. Meanwhile Kelton is kind of set in his uncle's business which he'll likely own one day/will establish his own business. Kind of similar to Alyssa and John's life but Tori and Carlin don't see Alyssa more than 1-2x/yr, whereas Josie's life will be right in their face bc all 3 couples will stay local.

[lookeyloo]

This was the first time I thought Brandon was really into Michaela.  Maybe it took those years for him to settle into being so adored by her.  And for them to get to know each other.  I'm pretty sure Erin and Michaela have discussed the fertility issues way before the visit.  They apparently do talk to each other.  A lot of this scripted reality needs something to film and some "drama".  I skipped the courtship episode  

[realitytvbitch980]

Wow, JINGER and Lawson would have been a nice couple, that sucks :/ lol 

[flyingdi]

9 hours ago, lookeyloo said:

This was the first time I thought Brandon was really into Michaela.  Maybe it took those years for him to settle into being so adored by her.  And for them to get to know each other.  I'm pretty sure Erin and Michaela have discussed the fertility issues way before the visit.  They apparently do talk to each other.  A lot of this scripted reality needs something to film and some "drama".  I skipped the courtship episode  

I'm pretty sure Brandon is both way more uncomfortable on TV and way less emotional than the Bates family.

[winsomeone]

Lawson seems to be really short..not much more than 5 feet? Maybe he has trouble finding girls shorter than he is?

[BitterApple]

4 hours ago, flyingdi said:

I'm pretty sure Brandon is both way more uncomfortable on TV and way less emotional than the Bates family.

From observing all the Bates' husbands, Brandon and John give off a vibe that they think the family is totally obnoxious and they're just gutting out each visit until they can hop on a plane and go home. I have a feeling Chad has a toe in that camp as well, he's just too whipped to do anything about it. 

[andromeda331]

1 hour ago, BitterApple said:

From observing all the Bates' husbands, Brandon and John give off a vibe that they think the family is totally obnoxious and they're just gutting out each visit until they can hop on a plane and go home. I have a feeling Chad has a toe in that camp as well, he's just too whipped to do anything about it. 

I agree. There's been a couple times on the show where Chad comes home from work and sees his brothers-in-law and/or sisters-in-law and he doesn't look too thrilled.  

[cereality]

2 hours ago, BitterApple said:

From observing all the Bates' husbands, Brandon and John give off a vibe that they think the family is totally obnoxious and they're just gutting out each visit until they can hop on a plane and go home. I have a feeling Chad has a toe in that camp as well, he's just too whipped to do anything about it. 

Agreed. I think Brandon has developed coping strategies to deal with being around the family, since Michael wants to see her family. John OTOH copes by being at the Bates home 1x/yr for 48 hrs max and since his wife isn't all too thrilled to be around her family, it works for them. I think neither Brandon nor John hates his inlaws -- I think it's the loud, obnoxious, shrill older/middle siblings they can't stand. I also think Kelly is pretty saavy and realizes if she makes her daughters choose between their man's preferences and their family's preferences, they are going to choose their man and Kelly won't see that daughter or grandkids all that much. We've seen Kelly and Gil be VERY respectful of both Brandon and John. In the first decorating debacle where obnoxious Carlin was moving all of Brandon's stuff around and he was clearly pissed -- Kelly was keeping the peace and saying -- no, we're going to move it back if Brandon doesn't like it. And with Alyssa and John -- they have very much bent to their preferences -- not showing up at/before a birth; often not showing up until hours or days later; staying at hotels rather than camping at their home which would certainly be cheaper; after one of the births Kelly showed up with groceries and Gil was in the kitchen dishing up meals for everyone and cleaning up after himself and then Gil was out there mowing their lawn and taking out their trash just to finish off some of John's tasks around the house.

The only time I've seen John at the Bates home and looking like he's having fun is when he was in their front yard with Trace throwing footballs to see if they could get one to go through the tree house. John is a guy's guy and I think he gets along with Trace who is similar and is content to be playing pick up basketball or throwing footballs. As opposed to the rest of the effeminate men like Lawson, Nathan, Evan etc. who are sitting around singing, gossiping, opining on how everyone should and should not live their lives.

Agree with the above -- we have DEFINITELY seen Chad walk in the door and look PISSED that Erin has certain siblings over for dinner. I don't blame him -- he's worked an 8 hrs and wants to go home and just play with his kids and just sit -- and then he's got another person around that he feels compelled to engage with. I don't think he minds Warden (or Jackson?) -- the pre-teen boy who has been learning to cook with Erin; at least for now the pre teen boys are fairly normal/quiet so they're not shrieking or arguing with Chad or giving him a headache when he walks in -- it's just having a kid around who'll eat with them and then head home. But we've definitely seen him walk in and see Carlin and look PISSED.

[lookeyloo]

32 minutes ago, cereality said:

Agreed. I think Brandon has developed coping strategies to deal with being around the family, since Michael wants to see her family. John OTOH copes by being at the Bates home 1x/yr for 48 hrs max and since his wife isn't all too thrilled to be around her family, it works for them. I think neither Brandon nor John hates his inlaws -- I think it's the loud, obnoxious, shrill older/middle siblings they can't stand. I also think Kelly is pretty saavy and realizes if she makes her daughters choose between their man's preferences and their family's preferences, they are going to choose their man and Kelly won't see that daughter or grandkids all that much. We've seen Kelly and Gil be VERY respectful of both Brandon and John. In the first decorating debacle where obnoxious Carlin was moving all of Brandon's stuff around and he was clearly pissed -- Kelly was keeping the peace and saying -- no, we're going to move it back if Brandon doesn't like it. And with Alyssa and John -- they have very much bent to their preferences -- not showing up at/before a birth; often not showing up until hours or days later; staying at hotels rather than camping at their home which would certainly be cheaper; after one of the births Kelly showed up with groceries and Gil was in the kitchen dishing up meals for everyone and cleaning up after himself and then Gil was out there mowing their lawn and taking out their trash just to finish off some of John's tasks around the house.

The only time I've seen John at the Bates home and looking like he's having fun is when he was in their front yard with Trace throwing footballs to see if they could get one to go through the tree house. John is a guy's guy and I think he gets along with Trace who is similar and is content to be playing pick up basketball or throwing footballs. As opposed to the rest of the effeminate men like Lawson, Nathan, Evan etc. who are sitting around singing, gossiping, opining on how everyone should and should not live their lives.

Agree with the above -- we have DEFINITELY seen Chad walk in the door and look PISSED that Erin has certain siblings over for dinner. I don't blame him -- he's worked an 8 hrs and wants to go home and just play with his kids and just sit -- and then he's got another person around that he feels compelled to engage with. I don't think he minds Warden (or Jackson?) -- the pre-teen boy who has been learning to cook with Erin; at least for now the pre teen boys are fairly normal/quiet so they're not shrieking or arguing with Chad or giving him a headache when he walks in -- it's just having a kid around who'll eat with them and then head home. But we've definitely seen him walk in and see Carlin and look PISSED.

But, but but - all of that is for the show.  I don't think their day to day lives are much like that.  Chad certainly had to know some kids would be there, along with the cameras and he probably rehearsed the home coming several times.  There are cameras in their houses.  None of it is a surprise or out of the blue. My son had a TV show use his house for a season - he was there for a lot of it.  He said there are a lot of people as part of production.  Granted, they are a low budget, but, it takes a few people to get the show done, get the scenes, etc.  We are not watching a documentary, or a situation where cameras are mounted on the walls and they go about life.  

[flyingdi]

I can't be sure, as I don't know him personally, but I am pretty sure Brandon is 100% textbook introvert.  As in his picture is in the dictionary under the word.

[BitterApple]

I agree with the above comments and the reason I threw Chad in there is because I was watching YouTube clips the other day and caught the one where the little kids were painting the goat shed. Chad was trying to instruct them and of course they're making a total mess and getting paint all over themselves. He was clearly getting frustrated and not in an asshole way but more along the lines of thinking he could've knocked the paint job out in an hour, and now it's going to take four because they're filming. I just think the family doesn't respect how much he has on his plate and eventually he's going to resent it.

Edited January 14, 2018 by BitterApple