S35.E13: Million Dollar Night

[ProfCrash]

I think they have selective hearing. I doubt we will see the Tyler Perry idol again because the fans hated it but Production liked it, at least that they liked the outcome in Tony winning. I think they changed the idol play after Yul's winning because of fan complaints. I suspect that we don't see as much of the social game and under the radar type players because fans complain that it is boring and want to see the Alpha's be Alphas.

[cooksdelight]

6 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

So to argue that Ben deserved the win because he never gave up ignores the fact that Chrissy never gave up.

Chrissy’s mistake was gloating in her wins and the jury apparently saw what we did.

[Daisy]

45 minutes ago, ProfCrash said:

They did that once and never repeated it. Why? Because people bitched loudly that it wasn't fair. I actually liked that one, it was tricky and I thought fair play. Jeff has always announced that the tribes merge or that someone is the first jury member. So that was not said, meaning no merge. Listen to the Host is a good rule for any reality TV show.

This is different. This is a massive change that effects the end of the game without giving people a chance to recover. If they had told people, so people know about it, I would be fine with it. Springing it on people at the very end is simply BS.

 

same with the final two format. Spencer said Jeff always says "congrats you made the final 4, last immunity challenge etc." 

[Daisy]

2 hours ago, Alapaki said:

I just read the Q&A with Probst over at ew.com and I have to come out of lurking this season:

THAT'S THE FUCKING FORMAT OF THE ENTIRE DAMNED SHOW!!!!!!  

It's bothered him for years?  But they do something about it when his alpha-male man-crush is facing certain F4 elimination.  

 

wait. what?!.

I can not even even with that man anymore. 

[henripootel]

19 hours ago, violet and green said:

He was out there digging like a dog in the dark! Fair props to him. The others may have looked, but they gave up.

That's what we're supposed to buy, yes.  Is there solid reason to believe it's true?  That shot of him finding the idol and crowing about it 10 feet from people who supposedly know nothing about it, coupled with his 'amazing skills' at finding exactly what he needs precisely when he needs to (for 'maximum drama'), twice in a row, just pings my bullshit radar like few things have.  Agree with whomever called this season a bit too manufactured - the contrivances have been a bit too much.

That said, I don't care that Ben won.  I guess I could have just stopped with 'I don't care'.  Not a great season.

Edited December 22, 2017 by henripootel

[majormama]

1 hour ago, mythoughtis said:

I missed Chrissy’s Joe knowledge comment - what was it again? 

I missed it too. My DVR skipped a couple times. I wondered if it had been edited out for some reason or if it was a tech issue on my side. All I heard was that he doesn't like marriage.

[Eolivet]

1 hour ago, Daisy said:

whatever ideology the show had regarding goats, and easy wins. went out the window a long time ago.

My problem with this twist, as I said back in the spoiler thread or the media thread or one of those two where we had the twist back in July, is that with my calculations, it definitely or probably changes 40% of the winners since final 3 was started. Winners don't always win at final 4, but they get to the end because of their game play. I have a real problem with a twist that changes 40% of the winners.

I also predicted Probst would love it because it helps Alpha males. Think of how much Culpepper would've loved to take Troyzan and force Sarah and Tai to make fire in Game Changers. At least if Sarah wins, she still wins Game Changers. But Ken, who voted out David in Millennials vs Gen X, I think would've taken David to be "loyal" (and Adam is complaining on Twitter he would've come in 4th with this twist). That's too much variation in the last two seasons alone for me to be comfortable with it.

But it's interesting I predicted they put it in because a woman won last season, and it seemed to screw over a woman this season, so #missionaccomplished, Jeff Probst?

[Daisy]

14 minutes ago, Eolivet said:

My problem with this twist, as I said back in the spoiler thread or the media thread or one of those two where we had the twist back in July, is that with my calculations, it definitely or probably changes 40% of the winners since final 3 was started. Winners don't always win at final 4, but they get to the end because of their game play. I have a real problem with a twist that changes 40% of the winners.

I also predicted Probst would love it because it helps Alpha males. Think of how much Culpepper would've loved to take Troyzan and force Sarah and Tai to make fire in Game Changers. At least if Sarah wins, she still wins Game Changers. But Ken, who voted out David in Millennials vs Gen X, I think would've taken David to be "loyal" (and Adam is complaining on Twitter he would've come in 4th with this twist). That's too much variation in the last two seasons alone for me to be comfortable with it.

But it's interesting I predicted they put it in because a woman won last season, and it seemed to screw over a woman this season, so #missionaccomplished, Jeff Probst?

i actually remember that. (now that you brought it up, i'm not that good LOL). 
that does bother me, and quite frankly, hearing the explanation being so completely utterly stupid... i just can't even bother with them. I can not believe that the host of the show flat out said he gets bothered when people get voted off the show because they won't be able to win. honestly, i feel like tweeting him during the entire season 36 on every bootout. "Did it bother you now? or is it okay because it was a #blindside." "Oh did this  one bother you because they can't win?" and so on and so forth. 
 

Edited December 21, 2017 by Daisy

[ljenkins782]

9 hours ago, millennium said:

How was he looking for idols in the black of night?   It showed him peeking under things, checking backsides of boards ... it was pitch dark!   Or it should have been.   How much illumination, both literal and otherwise, did the camera crew provide?

That was what I couldn't figure out either. We were watching him look through the night vision of the cameras, which wouldn't have been visible to Ben. How the hell do you search through a thick forest with no light? 

Quote

My interest in this show has been waning and this episode killed the remaining spark. The production interference has become too obvious. Finding “hidden” idols constantly isn’t entertaining to me. And then when that fails to get them their desired final three, they change the game so they still have their desired outcome. They should have just given Ben a lighter and gasoline and Devon flint and wet wood to make their intent clearer.

LOL at the bolded. I was impressed with Devon's willingness to take that challenge on without complaining about Ryan's free pass. I think it was probably a combination of knowing he was better at fire and realizing that Ryan was first choice to make FTC because he was easy to beat. 

Quote

Even thought it was impressive, I don't think Chrissy deserved to win simply because she won a lot of challenges.   Other seasons have had challenge beasts who came up short at FTC.   Chrissy was comfortably in an alliance while Ben had to fight to stay in each week, so perhaps that is what was rewarded.  

But isn't being in a successful alliance part of the game? If not for the continuous hiding of idols, Ben would have been out weeks ago. I don't really have much of an opinion on which path was more deserving, but if Chrissy's immunity wins don't qualify her as "deserving" than neither do Ben's fortuitous idol finds. 

Ultimately, I think Ben benefitted from Ryan and Chrissy's snipefest at FTC, which made both of them look bad. 

Quote

I did notice that when Chrissy was proving how sociable she was to Joe that she chose something that he may not have wanted broadcast to the entire country.  With that one action she demonstrated why I didn't care for her-she could never resist showing her perceived superiority over others.  Not only did she show that she knew something about him, she had to show that extremely personal bit of information to the entire cast and viewing audience.  Then she went on to show what she knew about someone else and someone replied that just stating facts doesn't prove a social relationship.  

This was not her finest moment. Spitting out factoids about a random jury member isn't endearing and she didn't sell it. Especially since it was Joe, who she clearly couldn't stand. She would have been much better off focusing on someone she did genuinely get along with, like Devon, or even Ashley, who did have nice things to say about her in post-show interviews. She had Ashley's vote anyway, but it would have been a more convincing show to the jury that she had some social relationships.

Quote

 

It was in no way an advantage for Chrissy. She had a solid plan to vote out Ben and go to the F3 with Ryan and Devon, both of whom she thought she could beat. That "advantage" forced her to do something she never would have done otherwise and give Ben a chance to stay in the game. If it were truly an advantage, then Chrissy should have been given the option to simply not use it. The only person who benefited from that advantage was Ben.

Yeah, I don't really know where this comment is coming from. I've stated many times over the course of the season that I wasn't a Chrissy fan and I didn't care enough to root for anybody. Calling out blatant producer manipulation of the game doesn't automatically mean I'm bitter.  

 

I have no idea how this could be called an advantage for Chrissy. It's taking 50% of control away from her for that vote. If it was truly supposed to be an advantage, it should have been to have her choice of who to kick out without input from the others. Since this twist didn't allow them to vote on anyone anyway, why not leave it in the hands of the person who actually won? 

Quote

On to the overall episode. I was proud of Devon trusting his gut and voting for Mike. That was nice too see. I was a bit shocked that it took until day 37 for someone to think of using the super idol from the first episode as a decoy. Maybe that was because they all seemed to know about it but no one seems to have seen it. Ben didn't recognize it, so I doubt that anyone other then Ryan and Chrissy knew what it looked like. I thought it was a good call on their part to try and trick Ben. I thought Ben did a great job of pretending like he was screwed when he wasn't. I found all of that very entertaining and fun.

Devon reading Ben correctly and throwing a vote onto Mike was one of the better parts of the episode.

I had completely forgotten about the dead idol, too bad they didn't bust that out much, much earlier in the game. This portion of the episode kinda flipped me around to rooting for Ben for a little while because Chrissy was so obnoxious in that idol scene. But then he was obnoxious at tribal and it was back to square one. 

But part of me wonders why Ben was so positive that it was a fake. Yes, he'd found the most current idol, but in a game so filled with secret advantages beyond idols, wouldn't a fancy necklace like that give you pause? That's not a bunch of beads scavenged from tribal flags or whatever. I guess he just didn't care because he was safe either way. 

[ProfCrash]

13 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

But part of me wonders why Ben was so positive that it was a fake. Yes, he'd found the most current idol, but in a game so filled with secret advantages beyond idols, wouldn't a fancy necklace like that give you pause? That's not a bunch of beads scavenged from tribal flags or whatever. I guess he just didn't care because he was safe either way. 

I think the one thing that has been consistent with the idols is that there is only one in play per beach. You can get to the merge and have three idols in play from the three beaches plus a fourth merge idol but the pre-merge idols are not replaced after the merge. So once a pre-merge idol is played at the merge, it is gone. The only idol put back in play is the merge idol. That has been consistent. Ben knew he had found the hidden merge idol and that all the pre-merge idols had been played. Chrissy's fake idol didn't work because he knew that he had the only in play idol. The only way for Chrissy's idol play to have kind of worked would have been to show Ben a note saying that this is a special idol with power X. They couldn't show Ben that note, they showed him Ryan's merge idol note. So Ben knew that it was a bogus play.

Even if Chrissy's idol had been real, it wouldn't have affected Ben because he would have had a real idol and would have been safe. So Chrissy could take a gamble and play it for Ryan, Mike or Devon. If she had selected correctly (Devon) and it would have forced a vote between Ryan and Mike with Mike going home anyway because Chrissy and Devon would have voted for Mike.

[tessat]

Too many sad sacks here - so in every game - we should tell the contestants - everything so they can manipulate the game? This was filmed months ago - production had no idea that Ben would become a fan favorite - they had no idea whether he would have been one of the first ones voted out because of his strength, story or maybe due to the PTSD he'd loose it and have to be removed. If things didn't change up - people would be bored and not watch these shows.

Rob upset when they expanded it to Final 3 - too bad, people upset with the latest twist - it would have been to Chrissy advantage she was left with Ryan - someone she could definitely beat and Devin and DR. Mike - best case scenario - you want Devin out and stick to the 2 guys who did nothing as far as game play really ( or only in their minds). If the contestants have to be notified of every change production wanted to make in these shows - it'd be pretty boring as each and every one of them would go into the game without any hesitation of what to expect. 

There are shows I no longer watch because I didn't like the path it took - and some of you may also find Survivor no longer to your liking - but I love the new twists as it makes it different.

As far as Chrissy - she played a great game - but when someone continues to have to tell everyone how great they are - I can't tolerate that. Here you have Lauren - in a job that's extremely difficult for men let alone women - and yet she's not making a big deal out of it - to me she's more of a hero - being in such a tough and risky career as well as taking care of a daughter on her own. She doesn't expect praise or pats on the back - it is what it is and she just accepts that.

[Special K]

37 minutes ago, majormama said:

I missed it too. My DVR skipped a couple times. I wondered if it had been edited out for some reason or if it was a tech issue on my side. All I heard was that he doesn't like marriage.

It came exactly at the two-hour point in the show, when my DVR thought the show was ending and the reunion was beginning, so my recording momentarily stopped, which it doesn't usually do.  I missed most of the comment, too, but I got the gist.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Special K

[amazingracefan]

24 minutes ago, tessat said:

 it would have been to Chrissy advantage she was left with Ryan - someone she could definitely beat and Devin and DR. Mike - best case scenario - you want Devin out and stick to the 2 guys who did nothing as far as game play really ( or only in their minds). If the contestants have to be notified of every change production wanted to make in these shows - it'd be pretty boring as each and every one of them would go into the game without any hesitation of what to expect.

I still don't understand why Chrissy and Ryan voted out Mike instead of Devon, was that really sensible?

[ghoulina]

4 hours ago, Daisy said:

 

or just stop having final threes and go back to final two

That's, honestly, what I thought they were doing when Chrissy began to read her advantage. I definitely prefer F2 to F3. 

 

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

Ben deserved the win. He hung in there and never gave up. He outplayed, outwitted and outlasted everyone else.

I would agree with all of this....if he had won that final IC. Idols and advantages are great, but this game is still about who gets voted out and who doesn't. He found all those Idols and I never thought that was anything shady, but just Ben being determined as hell and everyone else being short sighted. But F4, he had no more Idols. They wanted him gone. He should have been gone. 

You have to get yourself to F3! You just do. Whether that's by winning or playing an amazing social/strategic game or just flying so under the radar that people see you as a goat. But this was some last minute second chance that was thrown in there and as much as I wanted Ben to win, it sullied the entire thing for me. 

[tessat]

I didn't think so but they decided to honor the finale three deal they made I guess. Dumb move on their part as if I was playing I want to take the least liked or the ones who did the least during the game. Jury members can still be mad at you if you orchestrated their getting voted off - but when you are sitting next to people that did nothing they look at your game play. Just like Paul in BB - he had everyone else do his dirty work and then expected the prize to be handed to him - people didn't respect the way he played the game and handed it to the other guy.

[ghoulina]

10 minutes ago, amazingracefan said:

I still don't understand why Chrissy and Ryan voted out Mike instead of Devon, was that really sensible?

Probably worried that voting out Devon would make not only him bitter, but the jury as well. 

[tessat]

We were already told at the immunity challenge that the winner of the immunity also got a special advantage - so that advantage could have gone to anyone who won that immunity be it Ben, Devon or Ryan. Each would be in the same position. Had Ben won - my guess would be that he would have taken Ryan as his goat - leaving Devon and Chrissy to battle it out. I assume he'd want Devon to win as he has less on his resume than Chrissy - but if Chrissy won the 3rd spot - I'm sure Ben would have been just as disappointed as that would have made his job harder convincing the jury that he played the best.

[amazingracefan]

6 minutes ago, ghoulina said:

That's, honestly, what I thought they were doing when Chrissy began to read her advantage. I definitely prefer F2 to F3. 

 

I would agree with all of this....if he had won that final IC. Idols and advantages are great, but this game is still about who gets voted out and who doesn't. He found all those Idols and I never thought that was anything shady, but just Ben being determined as hell and everyone else being short sighted. But F4, he had no more Idols. They wanted him gone. He should have been gone. 

You have to get yourself to F3! You just do. Whether that's by winning or playing an amazing social/strategic game or just flying so under the radar that people see you as a goat. But this was some last minute second chance that was thrown in there and as much as I wanted Ben to win, it sullied the entire thing for me. 

I was surprised he did so well considering he must have been up several nights looking for idols/advantages.

[jzygayle]

18 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

, an advantage for Chrissy, it basically screwed up her game. If Ben isn't in that F3, Chrissy wins hands down.

Chrissy's only real option to make that an advantage--and it was by no means a sure thing--would have been for Chrissy to say "It's me or Ben." Choose Ryan as the person safe and then hand her immunity necklace to Devon.  And SHE competes for fire.  Because it's the only way she gets to tribal without Ben.

And with advantages like that, who needs disadvantages???

[Special K]

4 minutes ago, jzygayle said:

Chrissy's only real option to make that an advantage--and it was by no means a sure thing--would have been for Chrissy to say "It's me or Ben." Choose Ryan as the person safe and then hand her immunity necklace to Devon.  And SHE competes for fire.  Because it's the only way she gets to tribal without Ben.

And with advantages like that, who needs disadvantages???

Seriously insane, but that would have been epic!  Could you imagine Chrissy doing that and making fire?  They could just cut her the check right there and then.

Edited December 21, 2017 by Special K

[cooksdelight]

21 minutes ago, jzygayle said:

Choose Ryan as the person safe and then hand her immunity necklace to Devon.  And SHE competes for fire.  Because it's the only way she gets to tribal without Ben.

She doesn’t have the guts to do something like that. She assumed (emphasis on ASS) that she’d sail into the winner’s circle.

[Special K]

2 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

She doesn’t have the guts to do something like that. She assumed (emphasis on ASS) that she’d sail into the winner’s circle.

I mean could you imagine if anyone had done it?  It's a totally cool hypothetical scenario, regardless of your opinion of her, don't you think?

[MissEwa]

19 minutes ago, cooksdelight said:

She assumed (emphasis on ASS) that she’d sail into the winner’s circle.

I don't think she assumed that at all. I think she knew Ben would almost certainly win, hence being so determined - and not just at F4 - to get him out. 

It would have been a very cool scenario though - I'm not sure I could see anyone doing it though, just for the risk of losing and claiming the crown of Dumbest Survivor Ever from whoever is currently wearing it. 

[Rachel RSL]

I bet Mike would do it.

[jzygayle]

9 minutes ago, MissEwa said:

I don't think she assumed that at all. I think she knew Ben would almost certainly win, hence being so determined - and not just at F4 - to get him out. 

It would have been a very cool scenario though - I'm not sure I could see anyone doing it though, just for the risk of losing and claiming the crown of Dumbest Survivor Ever from whoever is currently wearing it. 

If she'd done it and lost, I can see a lot of people calling her the dumbest, but I don't think I'd agree.  She needed Ben out of the F3 to win. Period.  They ALL did.  It would have been epic if she had--and in my opinion, epic no matter the outcome, but I doubt she even thought of it.  I don't know *I* would have thought of it in the moment--my armchair is very comfy :D

[MissEwa]

6 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I bet Mike would do it.

Dr. Mike or Worlds Apart Mike? 

(Actually, both might have. Not sure that would make it a good move, especially in Dr Mike's case.)

[Rachel RSL]

I was thinking of Dr. Mike since he's all about making big moves that make absolutely no sense.

[jzygayle]

34 minutes ago, Special K said:

I mean could you imagine if anyone had done it?  It's a totally cool hypothetical scenario, regardless of your opinion of her, don't you think?

I wish someone HAD done it, instead of me just thinking it up :)  That would indeed be epic.

[Jobiska]

7 hours ago, seltzer3 said:

In fairness, Joe was challenging Christy to come up with what she knew about him.  So of course she has to respond.  And how she responded, wasn't exactly a quantifiable random fact.  Looking at Joe's reaction, it didn't seem like it was something she overheard.  The other  thing was that (granted we didn't see that), no one in the jury refuted her when she said she made bonds with everyone (as opposed to Ryan).

This; also, unless they are going to use the bathroom (well, no bathroom but you know what I mean), they have cameras on them at all times.  How does Joe know that this information wasn't broadcast on the show already?  It wasn't like Jeff outing Zeke by making an educated guess.  He told his to her, and then challenged her to tell him something, and presumably did not even say to her "don't tell anyone else [other than the camera that's trained on us]" or he would have protested.

[NeverLate]

5 hours ago, spiderpig said:

I'm fine with anything that brings awareness to PTSD.  It is a horrible affliction and an ongoing nightmare, even if many feel Ben was grandstanding a bit.

Mr. pig suffers daily - and he left active duty over 40 years ago after his Nam tour.

My son in law suffered, it was a terrible time. Ben was closed off. My son in law was a very quiet person, not unlike the Ben we saw, but he became angry and explosive.  I'm sorry a loved one of yours is going through this. 

[NeverLate]

2 hours ago, ghoulina said:

That's, honestly, what I thought they were doing when Chrissy began to read her advantage. I definitely prefer F2 to F3. 

 

I would agree with all of this....if he had won that final IC. Idols and advantages are great, but this game is still about who gets voted out and who doesn't. He found all those Idols and I never thought that was anything shady, but just Ben being determined as hell and everyone else being short sighted. But F4, he had no more Idols. They wanted him gone. He should have been gone. 

You have to get yourself to F3! You just do. Whether that's by winning or playing an amazing social/strategic game or just flying so under the radar that people see you as a goat. But this was some last minute second chance that was thrown in there and as much as I wanted Ben to win, it sullied the entire thing for me. 

I don't think it was last minute, I watched and what Jeff said. It wasn't just popped in at the last minute, and certainly didn't assure Ben of a win. I claimed Devon was an airhead weeks ago, but to lay back and chill, meant he gave up, Ben never gave up. Never.

[Wings]

3 minutes ago, NeverLate said:

I claimed Devon was an airhead weeks ago, but to lay back and chill, meant he gave up, Ben never gave up. Never.

He broke the flint and he couldn't practice without one as that was the challenge.   

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, ProfCrash said:

Chrissy hung in there and never gave up.

This! Fuck, I hate that I have to play up Chirssy, but that is what Ben has forced me to do, dammit!

I wish they'd just try a season with a minimum number of idols, no advantages, and a F2 again just to see if I'd actually like it or if I'd be like 'this is boring.' 

[NeverLate]

I can't imagine the show without twists and idols, and how they are played. Ben was the only one able to keep a secret..

Oh well, end of...

 

http://www.abajournal.com/magazine/article/lawyers_of_reality_tv

 

Lawyers reality TV! 

25 minutes ago, Wings said:

He broke the flint and he couldn't practice without one as that was the challenge.   

There was still flint to practise with, it broke in half. Use the half! 

Quote

Chrissy hung in there and never gave up.

I won't dispute that, but the jury decided who would win, not me..

1 hour ago, cooksdelight said:

She doesn’t have the guts to do something like that. She assumed (emphasis on ASS) that she’d sail into the winner’s circle.

Without Ben, of course! ;)

[peachmangosteen]

1 minute ago, NeverLate said:

I can't imagine the show without twists and idols, and how they are played.

I mean, that's how it started. The show went for 10 seasons without a HII. 

There really have always been twists though. I felt like the fire-making twist this season was bullshit because it was so late in the game, but they did the same thing in Micronesia by announcing at the end that it was a F2 instead of a F3, so they've introduced game changing twists late before. I'm becoming less annoyed by how this finale went, but I still hate this new F4 format and I am still over there being 477 HIIs and advantages.

[illdoc]

People have said "Well, it wasn't a last-minute thing (that last "secret advantage") to make sure Ben got in, because anyone including Ben could have won immunity". Well, I say, "who says that there was only one secret advantage?". If we are going to go "full-on conspiracy", why not say there were two--one in Jeff's left pocket in case Ben won and one in his right pocket if anyone else won (for example) and that Ben's "secret advantage" would have been something different! And, for the record, I think the "game-show fixing" involves rigging so that a certain contestant wins the prize. Technically, it would only be rigging to get Ben to the end (where obviously he would win, but theoretically could still lose).

[NeverLate]

19 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I mean, that's how it started. The show went for 10 seasons without a HII. 

There really have always been twists though. I felt like the fire-making twist this season was bullshit because it was so late in the game, but they did the same thing in Micronesia by announcing at the end that it was a F2 instead of a F3, so they've introduced game changing twists late before. I'm becoming less annoyed by how this finale went, but I still hate this new F4 format and I am still over there being 477 HIIs and advantages.

If it meant me winning a million dollars, would I look for idols, you betcha! All, the, time. I would search and search. I would try to win immunity, but if I knew my strengths lay elsewhere, I'd go with that

 

. 477? I thought it was 500...;) 

[greyflannel]

If idols can be used through the final 5 TC, and idols are always re-hidden after being played, why wouldn't the idol Ben used at final 6 be re-hidden? I would think it odd if it wasn't. Major props to Ben. His back was against the wall and he went on a major idol run because he never stopped fighting. The others did though. Chrissy said in one of the last tribals something to the effect of they were all exhausted and were maybe each kind of hoping somebody else would take care of watching Ben to make sure he didn't find an idol. Saying this in front of the jury might not have been the best idea. 

[babs1226]

3 hours ago, ljenkins782 said:

That was what I couldn't figure out either. We were watching him look through the night vision of the cameras, which wouldn't have been visible to Ben. How the hell do you search through a thick forest with no light? 

He wasn't searching through the forest in the dark, he was searching around the well.  You don't need light to dig in the sand,  By the time he actually saw the dig sign on the raft, it was already getting light out.   And Jeff announced that there would be a twist at the next immunity challenge the night before anyone competed.  Nobody knew at that point who was going to win immunity.  Ben would have won immunity if he hadn't put his u upside down,  That challenge was anyone's to win, so if Ben had won, would people be complaining that the twist wasn't fair to him?  Mike said in a talking head that Ben had to go because he was playing for his wife and kids, and that made him ferocious.  Damn right!  If you were in Ben's position at final 5, would you just throw in the towel, or would you do everything you could to stay alive, even trying to find an idol in the dark?

[violet and green]

6 hours ago, mythoughtis said:

I missed Chrissy’s Joe knowledge comment - what was it again? 

She said words to the effect, You don't want to get married because your parents got divorced when you were very young/8 or 9 (I think!), and that made you think marriage can't be trusted.

Edited December 22, 2017 by violet and green
spelling!

[Paws]

I’m trying to imagine how Jeff would spin it if a woman won with a good backstory,  immunity idols and a last chance “twist” while a man made it to the end with immunity wins. He’d probably lose his goddamn mind.  I can already imagine the utter backlash if Chrissy called her hidden idols Chrissy Bombs and making sound effects like Ben did.   I didn't like Chrissy the way I loved, say, Jeremy,  but i rooted for her as she had to fight against the Jeff Probst alpha male douche complex.

Edited December 22, 2017 by Paws

[Daisy]

8 minutes ago, Paws said:

I’m trying to imagine how Jeff would spin it if a woman won with a good backstory,  immunity idols and a last chance “twist” while a man made it to the end with immunity wins. He’d probably lose his goddamn mind.  I can already imagine the utter backlash if Chrissy called her hidden idols Chrissy Bombs and making sound effects like Ben did.   I didn't love Chrissy but i tooted for her as she had to fight against the Jeff Probst alpha male douche complex.

 

He would be like

I don't get it! i mean you won all these challenge, but she! SHE JUST KEPT FINDING THOSE DARNED HII'S! do you think it would have been different?!

[green]

13 hours ago, tessat said:

I was thrilled with the ending as many times - people who do absolutely nothing ride on someone else's coattails and survives to the end .

But this new "twist" assures that someone who just rode someone's coattails will ALWAYS now make it to the end.  If Ben won the final immunity and had the pick he would have done the same as Crissy and taken Ryan.  The Goat will always be chosen because you want to choose someone who is easiest to beat that sits next to you.

 

11 hours ago, Haleth said:

Conspiracy theorists might wonder why the game was so heavily skewed in Chrissy's favor with all the puzzles.

That would be weird even for conspiracy theorist since Survivor basically is nothing but solving puzzles ... unless they are untying ropes of course.

 

11 hours ago, ihartcoffee said:

My thoughts exactly.  I think it's time for me to hang it up and stop watching.  I was so pissed at the obvious manipulation by the end I was disgusted.  Then all the sappy music and the Ben show that followed made me turn off the TV.  Twitter was blowing up with people saying the same. 

The sappy Ben music at final tribal I also mentioned.  HATED it.

8 hours ago, NeverLate said:

I wonder who Ben would have taken if he'd have won immunity, that upside down U..! 

See above.  Obviously the Goat aka Ryan this season.  The new twist is just the "Goat is always guaranteed to be in the final three" twist by any other name.

[green]

4 hours ago, tessat said:

We were already told at the immunity challenge that the winner of the immunity also got a special advantage - so that advantage could have gone to anyone who won that immunity be it Ben, Devon or Ryan. Each would be in the same position. Had Ben won - my guess would be that he would have taken Ryan as his goat - leaving Devon and Chrissy to battle it out. I assume he'd want Devon to win as he has less on his resume than Chrissy - but if Chrissy won the 3rd spot - I'm sure Ben would have been just as disappointed as that would have made his job harder convincing the jury that he played the best.

 

2 hours ago, Jobiska said:

This; also, unless they are going to use the bathroom (well, no bathroom but you know what I mean), they have cameras on them at all times.  How does Joe know that this information wasn't broadcast on the show already?  It wasn't like Jeff outing Zeke by making an educated guess.  He told his to her, and then challenged her to tell him something, and presumably did not even say to her "don't tell anyone else [other than the camera that's trained on us]" or he would have protested.

There was nothing wrong what Chrissy said.  Joe decided not to marry because his parents got divorced when he was young.  That isn't something deep and personal.  It is just something he told Chrissy like he probably told numerous people throughout his life.  And he asked for something personal from Chrissy.

1 hour ago, NeverLate said:

I can't imagine the show without twists and idols, and how they are played.

...

There was still flint to practise with, it broke in half. Use the half!

I can image it and watched it.  Old school Survivor was far more awesome.  More about real survival and real game play.

And you can't practice with half a flint.  You'd just keep hitting your finger because the flint was too short.

[Daisy]

11 minutes ago, green said:

 

There was nothing wrong what Chrissy said.  Joe decided not to marry because his parents got divorced when he was young.  That isn't something deep and personal.  It is just something he told Chrissy like he probably told numerous people throughout his life.  And he asked for something personal from Chrissy.

I can image it and watched it.  Old school Survivor was far more awesome.  More about real survival and real game play.

And you can't practice with half a flint.  You'd just keep hitting your finger because the flint was too short.

 

yup. or it was like one or two twists. just - one idol player and gone, or hey tribal swap, or something. 
not an entire season where they shove every single conceivable thing in there to hope it sticks

[kikaha]

My question is, did production come up with the final 'advantage' -- the fire-making twist -- before the season?  Or did they throw it in at the last second? 

It 100% was NOT an advantage for Chrissie, as many have pointed out.  I'm trying to think how it could ever be an advantage for the FIC winner.  Suppose Ben had won the FIC.  He probably chooses to keep Ryan.  Devon and Chrissie fight it out at fire-making, with Devon likely (maybe) the winner. 

Now suppose they don't use this twist.  Ben wants to sit next to Ryan, so they probably ally together.  They then choose who they want to join them, pull that person into their alliance, and vote out the fourth.  My guess is that in this case, Chrissie doesn't make FTC.

It seems like the twist mostly adds uncertainty to the finale.  Hard for me to see that as an advantage for the FIC winner, who without it, can usually dictate terms.  Now it's a roll of the dice, that could have changed many season winners in the past.  Going back to Philippines, e.g., Skupin keeps Lisa, and Malcolm might well have made finals, where he was a lock to win.   In Second Chances, Kelley W would have had a decent shot

So it seems to me the main outcome of the twist is to take control out of the hands of the FIC winner, and cast it to fate (in the form of the fire challenge). 

I was shocked Chrissie didn't win.  Clearly the jury liked Ben a lot more than they liked her. 

[ProfCrash]

The final twist would have been decided on before the season started.  How the idols are hidden, the challenges and all the rewards are determined in advance. I would have disliked it no matter who benefited because it is a ridiculous change to the game. I don't think it was done to benefit Ben just like I don't the the camera crews show people where idols are or that Production rigs challenges. 

I would love a season where there is one idol per beach and that is it.

[green]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

The final twist would have been decided on before the season started.  ...

 

I think they spitball these things and have them as options but I've read on boards in the past that they don't have to use them and can make changes on the fly.  This isn't The Amazing Race where the non-elimination legs are absolutely locked in in advance.  Survivor has always had wiggle room during the season.

And they are using that wiggle room more and more these days to shape their "entertainment show" to what they want to happen.  This season pushed it up to Big Brother levels.  Which is NOT a good thing.

Edited December 22, 2017 by green

[RedheadZombie]

19 hours ago, Andromeda said:

Well, that was some bullshit producer manipulation going on. They love their All-American Ben. He's fine, but I have a hard time believing he found either of the two last immunity idols without help, and that "advantage" was total crap. It ruins strategy, stole their voting, which is what this game is supposed to be about!

I can't remember the second, but I believe the third.  He went out when they returned from tribal, and found the idol when the sun was just starting to rise.  

[MissEwa]

1 hour ago, ProfCrash said:

I don't think it was done to benefit Ben just like I don't the the camera crews show people where idols are or that Production rigs challenges.

I don't think camera crews lead people to the idol so much as I think you could probably guage them to determine whether you were hot or cold. Go for a walk by yourself and the crew hangs back half-interested? Yeah, there's no idol there. If they're following right behind you, trying to get close ups? Different story. And while I'm sure they're told to keep that stuff discreet after a while with literally nothing else to do, I think savvy players would catch on. 

Production don't rig challenges so much as certain challenges naturally favour certain players. They probably try to keep it even but there's no denying some seasons have a run of balance challenges or throwing challenges or puzzles, which might indicate what kind of player production would like to win (and i fully believe they cast and work out challenges with at least a winner-type in mind - it would be bad for the game if ten burly strong dudes won in a row, they want a mix). 

It's all speculative though, because you can lead horses to water - by, say, engineering a season where there's a way back in after being voted out and no reward challenges so your players are never split into smaller groups where they can strategise - but they still have to do the drinking.