Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[tv echo]

ComicBook.com's positive review of MG's X-Men Gold #30 (warning: spoilers)...

'X-Men Gold' #30 Delivers the Unexpected Executed With Excellence
Jamie Lovett   June 20, 2018
http://comicbook.com/marvel/2018/06/20/x-men-gold-30-review/

Quote

Superhero weddings can be a tricky thing. Superhero stories engage in soap opera style melodramatics, which means that the lead up to the moment the characters say “I do” is often one long sequence of hand-wringing as one or both characters go over every possible reason for why they shouldn’t go through with the wedding. The theory is that this will ratchet up the drama before the couple inevitably says, “I do.”

The problem is that a page or two of vows and a first wedded kiss rarely carry enough weight to counterbalance the 20 or so pages of second-guessing that preceded them, and often this equation adds up to the reader feeling like maybe this wasn’t such a good idea after all.
*  *  *
I’ve spent a lot of time on the narrative structure and choices made for this issue because they feel like the most defining feature of the story, but that also means that I’ve done a near criminal disservice to Marquez’s artwork, which is no less vital to the story’s success. This is an emotionally nuanced issue, with people who love each other doing emotionally hurtful things to each other without any sense of malice and Marquez does an amazing job of showing the emotional confusion in his characters. Matthew Wilson’s colors do a phenomenal job of setting the mood by being one part idyllic spring day, perfect for a wedding, and one part just a tad darker, hinting at the weight underneath the frivolity.

Edited July 3, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

8 Superheroes Who Would Be Lost Without The Women in Their Lives
Amelia E.  July 1, 2018
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/8-superheroes-who-would-be-lost-without-the-women-in-their-lives

Quote

THE GREEN ARROW AND FELICITY SMOAK/DINAH LANCE
...
Good old Oliver Queen has all the charm in the world and could split a strand of hair with that bow and arrow of his. He also happens to be a mess and a half without the women in his life. Dinah Lance is the perfect companion for Ollie’s comic book antics, falling in step with his swagger and having absolutely none of his nonsense. Television’s Oliver Queen might be a few shades darker than his comic book counterpart, but his sometimes agonizingly slow progress wouldn’t have even started without Felicity Smoak.
*  *  *
HAWKMAN AND HAWKGIRL
...
If there’s one thing Hawkman makes abundantly clear, it’s that he can’t survive without Hawkgirl. Hawkman and Hawkgirl are literally linked across time and space through the power of mutual resurrection. On Legends of Tomorrow, their relationship was less than healthy, but once Hawkgirl started to get her memories back things got a little less pushy on Hawkman’s part.
*  *  *
MON-EL AND SUPERGIRL
...
Kara Zor-El might have been a touch discriminatory towards Mon-El because of his Daxamite heritage when the two first met, but eventually they overcame their families’ prejudices and found themselves in a pseudo-relationship. When Mon-El returned from the future, he was hero who had realized that he needed to use his powers for good. This was all because of Supergirl’s influence. He founded the Legion of Superheroes in her memory, making her the reason Mon-El became the hero she knew he could be.

IRON MAN AND PEPPER POTTS
SUPERMAN AND LOIS LANE
THE GREEN ARROW AND FELICITY SMOAK/DINAH LANCE
ZAN AND JAYNA
THE HUMAN TORCH AND THE INVISIBLE WOMAN
HAWKMAN AND HAWKGIRL
SPIDER-MAN AND AUNT MAY
MON-EL AND SUPERGIRL

Edited July 2, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

'Krypton's Wallis Day Shares Photo With Arrowverse Stars Katie McGrath and Jessica De Gouw
By JENNA ANDERSON - July 1, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/07/01/krypton-wallis-day-arrowverse-arrow-supergirl-photo/

Quote

Wallis Day, who plays Nyssa Vex in Syfy's Krypton, recently shared a photo of herself alongside Supergirl's Lena Luthor, Katie McGrath, and Arrow's Helena Bertinelli/Huntress, Jessica De Gouw. You can check out the photo - and Day's delightful caption - below.
*  *  *
As those who follow all three shows know, Krypton is very clearly unconnected from The CW's Arrowverse of shows. While this has been confirmed multiple times, Krypton's season one finale really hammered things home, as the show was taken into sort of uncharted territory.

Edited July 2, 2018 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

Yeah, I accidentally ran into the BatCat spoilers yesterday.  There were a lot of upset people in the comments of the article I read.  

*******

CW Live+7 Ratings for the week of June 11 (one more to go after this):

• Supergirl 0.83, 2.729M
• The Originals 0.66, 1.787M
• Life Sentence 0.19, 0.570M

Source: ProgrammingInsider.com

Edited July 2, 2018 by Starfish35

[lemotomato]

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one comic book wedding between major characters that happened without a hitch, and that was Jean/Scott from the X-Men in the mid-90’s. I’m surprised people are still surprised when these things don’t turn out exactly the way fans hope they do.

Edited July 2, 2018 by lemotomato

[bijoux]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

8 Superheroes Who Would Be Lost Without The Women in Their Lives
Amelia E.  July 1, 2018
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/8-superheroes-who-would-be-lost-without-the-women-in-their-lives

IRON MAN AND PEPPER POTTS
SUPERMAN AND LOIS LANE
THE GREEN ARROW AND FELICITY SMOAK/DINAH LANCE
ZAN AND JAYNA
THE HUMAN TORCH AND THE INVISIBLE WOMAN
HAWKMAN AND HAWKGIRL
SPIDER-MAN AND AUNT MAY
MON-EL AND SUPERGIRL

Kudos to this artcle for acknowledging not only the different pairings in the comics and in the show, but also how one Oliver differs from another.

[Mary0360]

2 hours ago, tv echo said:

8 Superheroes Who Would Be Lost Without The Women in Their Lives
Amelia E.  July 1, 2018
http://fandom.wikia.com/articles/8-superheroes-who-would-be-lost-without-the-women-in-their-lives

IRON MAN AND PEPPER POTTS
SUPERMAN AND LOIS LANE
THE GREEN ARROW AND FELICITY SMOAK/DINAH LANCE
ZAN AND JAYNA
THE HUMAN TORCH AND THE INVISIBLE WOMAN
HAWKMAN AND HAWKGIRL
SPIDER-MAN AND AUNT MAY
MON-EL AND SUPERGIRL

Why was Dinah the only one thrown in to the mix when the list featured other couples that weren't actually canon or big parts of comic series? 

[scarynikki12]

I think it’s a compulsion at this point. 

[Starfish35]

38 minutes ago, Mary0360 said:

Why was Dinah the only one thrown in to the mix when the list featured other couples that weren't actually canon or big parts of comic series? 

I think maybe the other non-canon pairing(s) don’t have major comic alternate pairings?

Who else is non-canon besides Kara/Mon-El?  I know Tony/Pepper aren’t nearly as big a deal in the comics as they are in the MCU, but I think they were together at least briefly at one point, weren’t they? Did Tony ever have a major love interest? 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one comic book wedding between major characters that happened without a hitch, and that was Jean/Scott from the X-Men in the mid-90’s. I’m surprised people are still surprised when these things don’t turn out exactly the way fans hope they do.

Superman/Lois happened without a hitch didn't it?

[Chaser]

1 hour ago, lemotomato said:

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one comic book wedding between major characters that happened without a hitch, and that was Jean/Scott from the X-Men in the mid-90’s. I’m surprised people are still surprised when these things don’t turn out exactly the way fans hope they do.

I'm more surprised at the marketing. All those issues and special covers and just money put into something that wasn't going to payout.

I figured there would be some twist, I just didn't figure this one.

[BkWurm1]

4 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Superman/Lois happened without a hitch didn't it?

What I remember hearing about the comic wedding is they worked to align with the show, The New Adventures and Lois and Clark, only for the tv show to pull frog eating clones!  Lol

[KenyaJ]

Wow. This turned into a full-blown thing. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw the Times respond to outcry over a story this way.

[Primal Slayer]

Now that BatCat is dead yet again, Dick/Babs is up for grabs..yet again. 

[calliope1975]

18 minutes ago, KenyaJ said:

Wow. This turned into a full-blown thing. I'm trying to remember the last time I saw the Times respond to outcry over a story this way.

Are people mad about being spoiled or that they don't like the spoiler?

Also, how hard is it to either give a spoiler cut or a spoiler warning for something that isn't out yet? 

[Primal Slayer]

17 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Are people mad about being spoiled or that they don't like the spoiler?

Also, how hard is it to either give a spoiler cut or a spoiler warning for something that isn't out yet? 

I'd have to say both.

People are already cancelling their orders and it is not making local comic shops happy.

[JJ928]

I've seen a bunch of people say they're thankful for the spoiler, and that they've cancelled their subscriptions. The writer came out and said this wasn't the end, there are 50 more issues to go. LOL the nerve. Like I said, I am not much of a comic reader but I was planning to pick up that issue for wedding, but not anymore.

Edited July 3, 2018 by JJ928

[Chaser]

I would lean towards the spoiler.

From what I was reading, apart of the marketing was interviews about how this was a turning point in Batman and exploring domestic BatCat. Not just promoting the wedding but after? That’s cold.

The writer said this issue is just the halfway point in exploring Batman and Catwoman (100 issues in total). Not sure how that’s going to work for them now. 

I think we found PR worse than Chico. 

[BkWurm1]

It was a dumbass move on DC's part.  What did they expect would happen?  

[Primal Slayer]

6 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

I've seen a bunch of people say they're thankful for the spoiler, and that they've cancelled their subscriptions. The writer came out and said this wasn't the end, there are 50 more issues to go. LOL the nerve. Like I said, I am not much of a comic reader but I was planning to pick up that issue for wedding, but not anymore.

Are him and MG friends? Do they collaborate? lol. Between MGs constant "you have to wait until the end of the season to really enjoy the entire thing" to this, its very funny.

[JJ928]

1 minute ago, Primal Slayer said:

Are him and MG friends? Do they collaborate? lol. Between MGs constant "you have to wait until the end of the season to really enjoy the entire thing" to this, its very funny.

I don't even follow him but a friend sent me his tweet... THE NERVE. Hey, I built up to this huge moments for 49 issues but it ain't gonna happen. Instead you're getting some boring contrived drama, but don't worry, buy the other 50 issues and you may get a resolution at the end. Umm No. lol

Him and MG definitely graduated from the same school of bs.

 

[Primal Slayer]

In the end I cant even say that this surprises me. Didio has been very anti-marriage in comics as he thinks the story basically ends once they get married. He helped robbed us of Batwomans marriage. 

[statsgirl]

3 minutes ago, Primal Slayer said:

he thinks the story basically ends once they get married.

With all the cancellations, looks like now the story ends before they get married.

[lemotomato]

5 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

Superman/Lois happened without a hitch didn't it?

According to wikipedia, you're right. Funny thing is, like @BkWurm1 mentioned, the wedding happened on "Lois and Clark" at the same time. From what I can remember, I think the show wedding got more press/buzz than the one in the comics.

1 minute ago, JJ928 said:

I don't even follow him but a friend sent me his tweet... THE NERVE. Hey, I built up to this huge moments for 49 issues but it ain't gonna happen. Instead you're getting some boring contrived drama, but don't worry, buy the other 50 issues and you may get a resolution at the end. Umm No. lol

Him and MG definitely graduated from the same school of bs.

50 issues = 2 more years! He's expecting fans to keep handing over money for that long after this bait and switch? 

[wingster55]

6 hours ago, Primal Slayer said:

8 hours ago, lemotomato said:

Off the top of my head, I can only think of one comic book wedding between major characters that happened without a hitch, and that was Jean/Scott from the X-Men in the mid-90’s. I’m surprised people are still surprised when these things don’t turn out exactly the way fans hope they do.

 

 

I don't remember if it was "without a hitch" but both Barry & Iris and Wally & Linda saw it all the way through. 

[Sakura12]

I'm glad they spoiled it. It saved me money. They had a chance to make things different instead they want to keep it the exact same. 

Bait and switch doesn't work anymore. They can't hype up something then take it away and expect fans to wait again for something that may or may not happen. If they didn't want Batman and Catwoman to get married don't make a storyline revolving around their wedding.

This is not going to get non comic book readers interested in buying comics. It will probably hurt their sales even more. Even if it happened after fans read the "wedding" issue. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Sakura12

[tv echo]

DC Comics retweeted that Tom King tweet posted above (btw, a "100 issue story" about superhero romance in the comics?).

New York Times Writer Regrets Spoiling Batman’s Wedding in Headline
By Abraham Riesman   July 2, 2018
http://www.vulture.com/2018/07/new-york-times-writer-regrets-spoiling-batmans-wedding.html

Quote

It was supposed to be the wedding of the century. In the pages of this Wednesday’s Batman Vol. 3, No. 50, Batman and Catwoman were going to tie the knot after nearly 80 years of will-they-or-won’t-they romance. The Dark Knight had proposed to his foe last year and the series’ writer, Tom King, had been building to the nuptials ever since. Publisher DC Entertainment had billed issue 50 as a major event for the comics industry, encouraging retailers to remain open Tuesday night so it could go on sale at midnight. Some comic shops were planning wedding-themed parties, complete with cakes and fancy invitations. No one knew what, exactly, would occur in the comic, but it was sure to be momentous.
*  *  *
As soon as the story went online, the Comics Internet melted down. People were baffled and furious that the Times had spoiled the ending of this much-anticipated comic. Not only that, they’d spoiled it in the damn headline! ...
*  *  *
When Vulture asked Gustines whether DC knew he would be spoiling the twist beforehand, he replied, “They did not know how I would approach it, but they knew I would reveal the twist.”

DC didn’t disavow (sorry, sorry) the story — they tweeted it out and Vulture has learned that they posted a link to it on a private Facebook group for comic-shop retailers. Speaking of retailers, Vulture spoke to a few of them from around the country and found a mixed response to the spoilers.

Edited July 3, 2018 by tv echo

[Sakura12]

So DC wanted everyone to make a big deal out this wedding where comic book stores stay open late and spend money on wedding themed parties and have fans spend money on it. Only for people to read the comic and find out that it was for nothing?

Then their response is just wait and spend more money on 50 more issues to see if they get married or not. 

Edited July 3, 2018 by Sakura12

[statsgirl]

It seems insane marketing.

58 minutes ago, tv echo said:

As soon as the story went online, the Comics Internet melted down. People were baffled and furious that the Times had spoiled the ending of this much-anticipated comic. Not only that, they’d spoiled it in the damn headline! ...

I think this writer has it wrong -- the problem is not that it was spoiled in the article or even the headline, but that the wedding itself was spoiled in the sense that it's not going to happen.

Anyone who is going to stay up late to get the  comic early, or go to the trouble of having a wedding themed party is going to be unhappy if the wedding doesn't happen.

[SmallScreenDiva]

OMG, the drama! Will the wedding happen or not?!? Stay tuned! This almost sounds like a soap opera, LMAO!

[KenyaJ]

TV Guide ranks The Top 25 CW Ships of All Time

Quote

 

25. Cat and Vincent, Beauty and the Beast

24. Blaine and Peyton, iZombie 

23. LaVon and Lemon, Hart of Dixie

22. Sara and Ava, DC's Legends of Tomorrow

As polar opposites with a deep, almost spiritual understanding of each other, there's no denying that Ava (Jes MacAllan) and Sara (Caity Lotz) are the 'ship of DC's Legends of Tomorrow. Sara's a resurrected assassin who isn't one for settling down and Ava is a clone of, well, many, which should have made their relationship a total non-starter. However, their sizzling chemistry and heartfelt conversations made them a definite favorite, which is why we were gutted when they eventually broke up. But now that Ava is joining the team full-time in Season 4, we're hoping that means the Avalance ship will once again set sail.

21. Luke and Lorelai, Gilmore Girls

20. Walt and Bennet, The Carrie Diaries

19. Clark and Lois, Smallville

18. Rebecca and Nathaniel, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

17. Mary and Francis, Reign

16. Jane and Rafael, Jane the Virgin

15. Freya and Keelin, The Originals

14. Barry and Iris, The Flash

Falling in love with your foster sister might sound like an odd way to find your one true love, but everything about Barry (Grant Gustin) and Iris' (Candice Patton) relationship on The Flash has been super weird. Their first kiss got erased by time travel, Nazis stormed their wedding and now their grown-up daughter from the future has joined their crime-fighting team. Weird is relative. What we love most about this ship is the way Barry and Iris' partnership shines through strongest of all. Super powers or not, these two are truly a team in everything they do, and we should all be so lucky as to find a love like theirs.

13. Chuck and Blair, Gossip Girl

12. Nathan and Haley, One Tree Hill

11. Darryl and White Josh, Crazy Ex-Girlfriend

10. Zoe and Wade, Hart of Dixie

9. Jefferson and Lynn, Black Lightning

Black Lightning took a more mature approach to the superhero genre with its middle-aged vigilante Jefferson Pierce (Cress Williams), so naturally the series did the same with its main romantic subplot. Jefferson and Lynn's (Christine Adams) story started at the rekindling of their romance after a long marriage and semi-messy divorce, which made the ship exciting for two reasons. One, there's two decades of history between them for fans to speculate and gush over, making their flashback possibilities endless. Two, Jefferson and Lynn showed us what a mature relationship built on trust and teamwork -- despite its many flaws and uncertainties -- can look like. And holy crap, we LOVE it.

8. Logan and Veronica, Veronica Mars

7. Rory and Jess, Gilmore Girls (they accidentally re-posted the text for Logan and Veronica)

6. Klaus and Caroline, The Vampire Diaries/The Originals

5. Clarke and Lexa, The 100

4. Oliver and Felicity, Arrow

Olicity is one of those weird ships that was probably never in the original plans for the show but somehow became a cornerstone of it. Oliver (Stephen Amell) and Felicity's (Emily Bett Rickards) chemistry was palpable from the get go, and they've traveled from strangers to friends to husband and wife, despite the seriously rocky road they had to take to get there. They're also one of the rare couples that provide fans with just as much entertainment during their domestic happiness as their angsty breakups, which is not easy. The only thing that would make them more perfect is an Olicity baby, right?

3. Damon and Elena, The Vampire Diaries

2. Alex and Maggie, Supergirl

Sanvers is and always will be one of the best ships Supergirl ever created, and we're still a little bitter about watching it come to an end. Alex (Chyler Leigh) got to explore her sexuality and come to terms with it in a beautiful story arc for her character, made even more beautiful by the genuine friendship and love she found in Maggie (Floriana Lima) during that journey. Ultimately, their difference of opinion on having kids drove these two apart, but we're holding out one last kernel of hope that they'll find their way back to each other one day. The greatest ships take time, patience and fans that make a whole lot noise on Twitter, after all.

1. Betty and Jughead, Riverdale

 

Edited July 3, 2018 by KenyaJ

[tarotx]

The Clark and Lois text 

19. Clark and Lois, Smallville
Is there any couple as iconic as Clark Kent (Tom Welling) and Lois Lane (Erica Durance)? While Lana (Kristen Kreuk) dominated the first few seasons of the series as Clark's love interest, Lois definitely took over (with much more success) when she arrived on the scene in Season 4. Despite a totally longer than necessary arc where Lois didn't realize Clark was also the Blur, this relationship shone through as the best ship on the show and one of the top to ever grace The CW network.  

 

And OT but if people really need to read the Rory&Jess text. Though they were never really a CW ship. Jess wasn't even in the Gilmore Girls season that was on the CW. 

http://www.tvguide.com/galleries/the-top-25-cw-ships-of-all-time-ranked/19/

[Miss Dee]

LOL I know we really don't count it as a comics universe, exactly, but the tween/teen in me that was shipping Betty and Jughead in the comics from waaaay back is just stunned to see it take off on the show the way it has.

[ruby24]

47 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

LOL I know we really don't count it as a comics universe, exactly, but the tween/teen in me that was shipping Betty and Jughead in the comics from waaaay back is just stunned to see it take off on the show the way it has.

This is one you can probably credit the actors for. They had far more chemistry than any other couple on the show pretty instantly (obviously due to real life stuff). The writers had to respond to that. Even if they claim they were going to try it anyway, I'd bet good money the sparks onscreen pushed it in that direction.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Excuse me, Sanvers ahead of Olicity? Really? 

[BkWurm1]

2 hours ago, tarotx said:

The Clark and Lois text 

19. Clark and Lois, Smallville
Is there any couple as iconic as Clark Kent (Tom Welling) and Lois Lane (Erica Durance)? While Lana (Kristen Kreuk) dominated the first few seasons of the series as Clark's love interest, Lois definitely took over (with much more success) when she arrived on the scene in Season 4. Despite a totally longer than necessary arc where Lois didn't realize Clark was also the Blur, this relationship shone through as the best ship on the show and one of the top to ever grace The CW network.  

 

And OT but if people really need to read the Rory&Jess text. Though they were never really a CW ship. Jess wasn't even in the Gilmore Girls season that was on the CW. 

http://www.tvguide.com/galleries/the-top-25-cw-ships-of-all-time-ranked/19/

Major agree to disagree with Lois and Clark on Smallville.  For one, there was no more romance between them from seasons 4 through 8 than there was between Clark and Chloe, less I'd say since she was totally in the dark and until season 8 only a part timer.  So no, she didn't take over with much better success when she arrived on scene (they dragged Clana out til season 8) and while I know the ship has fans, I think it's fair to say they accomplished big strides in their relationship with sudden strokes of the pen that light switched and retconned some of the past. And I'd argue their end romance was embarrassingly bad (she like Catwoman wasn't going to marry the hero because it would get in the way of his heroing -- until someone else explained Clark wasn't a god and needed breaks. )  SV wrote more to the iconic nature of the ship than to the actual success of the show's characters.    I love the ship anywhere else.  But put in the work people!

[Primal Slayer]

Yeah....I cant take that list seriously. Comparing a 1 year relationship to 3/4/5/6/7 etc... seasons of a relationship...just feels weird. 

[Starfish35]

The top CW ships of all time! Lol!  I’m glad I went back and reread that headline before making a fool of myself, because I missed the “CW” part the first time through and was about to loudly protest.  Hahaha ok. 

But even so.....I admit I’ve only watched a few of these, but I still have to side-eye some of their choices and placements. 

I wish I could get more enthusiastic about Avalance.  It’s super frustrating that I can’t get more excited about the main ship for my favorite character.   I don’t hate it; I just don’t get it.  Or feel it, I guess.  And I can’t even root for the writers to break them up and bring someone else on for Sara because I know the backlash would be ugly, judging by what happened with Sanvers. :(  And I don’t want that for the show, so....*sigh*

Edited July 3, 2018 by Starfish35

[jay741982]

2 hours ago, SmallScreenDiva said:

Excuse me, Sanvers ahead of Olicity? Really? 

Damon/Elena behind ahead of Olicity is what I'm questioning. He once tried to kill her brother

[Primal Slayer]

22 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Damon/Elena behind ahead of Olicity is what I'm questioning. He once tried to kill her brother

Who didnt he try to kill though.

[Mary0360]

Ew

[Featherhat]

7 hours ago, Starfish35 said:

The top CW ships of all time! Lol!  I’m glad I went back and reread that headline before making a fool of myself, because I missed the “CW” part the first time through and was about to loudly protest.  Hahaha ok. 

But even so.....I admit I’ve only watched a few of these, but I still have to side-eye some of their choices and placements. 

I wish I could get more enthusiastic about Avalance.  It’s super frustrating that I can’t get more excited about the main ship for my favorite character.   I don’t hate it; I just don’t get it.  Or feel it, I guess.  And I can’t even root for the writers to break them up and bring someone else on for Sara because I know the backlash would be ugly, judging by what happened with Sanvers. :(  And I don’t want that for the show, so....*sigh*

Someone pointed out that JM looks a bit like KC with her hair down and even acts like early LL (I guess the rule following, suit wearing version of Sara turned sometimes "pro vigilanting") and now I can't unsee it, so there's that. I also wish I had more enthusiasm because I don't think it's going anywhere, and I like JM as an actress but...….I partly feel like they skipped forward about 100 steps in their relationship (first date to pulling someone's soul back from the brink to breaking up/ILY) in 3 episodes, completely rushing it didn't help either. 

Sanvers was also a meh for me, kinda paint by numbers relationship milestones but Alex's coming out itself was well done. 

SV Lois and Clark are my worst version of the pairing ever (best pairing being DC and TH version).

[tv echo]

FYI, Nightwing writer Benjamin Percy also wrote the initial Rebirth series of Green Arrow comics (as part of the 2016 DC Rebirth reboot), which heavily featured the GA/BC romance...

NIGHTWING Will Ask the Question: Should NIGHTWING and BATGIRL Be a Couple?
By Vaneta Rogers  July 2, 2018 
https://www.newsarama.com/40651-ben-percy-s-nightwing-will-ask-the-question-should-nightwing-and-batgirl-be-a-couple.html

Quote

With Batman and Catwoman’s wedding scheduled for Wednesday (do they or don't they? spoilers) and Superman already married to Lois Lane, is DC about to decide that this is the right time for Dick Grayson and Barbara Gordon to become a couple?

According to Nightwing series writer Benjamin Percy, "Batgirl is going to play a very important role in my run."

Dick Grayson also appears in this month's Batgirl #25, further solidifying the idea that the two heroes - who have been romantically linked for decades - might finally make things official in the "Rebirth" DCU.
*  *  *
Percy: Well, she was in issue #44, so she's in his recent memory. But yes, on a larger, more important note, Babs takes up a lot of real estate in Dick Grayson's mind.

They're age-old friends and lovers. They have so many deep connections. And Wyrm is taking advantage of that in the same way that maybe you have received an email that seemingly came from someone you know, but it's just a mock address with a phishing attachment.
*  *  *
Percy: Yeah, the last issue was a bit of a fake-out. Hopefully all the readers were on the edge of their seats thinking, are they actually back together? And the answer is no.

But then, in this issue, #46, they are back together.

Nrama: Now we're on the edge of our seats again.

Percy: Right, right, and you should be. I'll be very coy here, but Batgirl is going to play a very important role in my run.
*  *  *
Nrama: You mentioned that Barbara takes up a lot of real estate in his mind. Introducing him to the idea, and even the possibility, that he would wake up after a night spent in bed with her has got to have expanded her real estate recently? Gave it some extra oomph?

Percy: Absolutely! There are questions that are going to be raised for both of them as to whether or not the time is right for them to be a couple.

Edited July 4, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Two interesting pre-release interviews with Batman #50 writer Tom King (I only quoted two portions)...

Batman Is Getting Married and You're Invited
BY JOSHUA RIVERA  May 2, 2018
https://www.gq.com/story/batman-is-getting-married-and-youre-invited

Quote

It's also very sitcom-y, this idea of building to a wedding.
[Tom King:] To me it's a soap opera thing! I remember being in elementary school, and Louise Simonson wrote Scott proposing to Jean Grey [in X-Men], and I remember running to school to tell all my friends about this, I was so excited. It wasn't like, "Rob Liefeld just drew the bloodiest page I've ever seen." I was like [incomprehensible blubbering over a wedding]. As a kid, the soap opera aspect of it all got to me. And when we started Batman we wanted to bring that out. Jack Kirby, the same guy who invented Mister Miracle, invented romance comics. It's a huge part of comics history. So to bring back that soap opera-y aspect, I love it.

INTERVIEW: King & Jones On Batman & Catwoman’s Wedding and Beyond
by Kiel Phegley   June 21, 2018
https://www.cbr.com/batman-catwoman-wedding-interview-king-jones/2/

Quote

We’re getting closer to #50, and that’s both a milestone issue and a wedding issue. Both of those phrases have their own expectations, particularly the latter category stretching from when Reed and Sue got married in the Fantastic Four on through when Lois and Clark were married in the ’90s. How do you play with those traditions?
King: I looked at a lot of things, like the Spider-Man wedding and how big they went with that. I read the Fantastic Four wedding with Stan and Jack knocking on the door. When I was a kid, I loved that soap opera wedding aspect. When Louise Simonson had Cyclops and Jean Grey get engaged, that was one of my biggest comic book moments as a kid. That soap opera aspect of comics interests me greatly.

Edited July 4, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Snarky...

Batman #50 review
BY ELENA CARRILLO ON JULY 4, 2018
https://batman-news.com/2018/07/04/batman-50-review-2/

Quote

Does that cast us all as irate Jokers, crazed and incensed at the perceived snub? If only the book were that clever or that brave. No, instead this is just another case of “we love each other too much and therefore we can never be together” (oh woe!) because the world would end and the sun would plunge into the sea, and darkness would fall upon the land, and demons would eat all the children and kittens and then build savage temples of their bones.

Or, more likely, because DC does not have the courage to upend what’s been the status quo in this book for so long that people have forgotten that Batman was once a happy character who cracked wise and didn’t take himself too seriously once upon a time.

Instead we get the climax to a year-long tease that’s about as anticlimactic as a Beatles reunion tour that deliberately omits Paul McCartney. Why in the world did Selina accept Bruce’s proposal? Why did we have all these tie-ins about taking chances and the importance of allowing happiness in? Why all these months of interactions basically affirming that this is the “right” choice? Only to have Selina flake out in the 11th hour for reasons as spurious and melodramatic as this falsely conjured absurd notion of “self-sacrifice”.
*  *  *
So after a year of marketing, of tie-ins, of in-verse characters being excited to see this whole thing come off, of villains trying their darndest to spoil the fun, it’s ultimately Selina who just irrationally decides that all the reassurances and proofs and hopes that led up to this moment pale in comparison to some bizarre perception that marrying Batman will be the end of the Dark Knight. King writes Selina like she’s a straight-up idiot who thinks her “sacrifice” is unselfish, and infantilizes Bruce as if he’s someone who can’t make up his own mind who he is/wants to be and needs his girlfriend to do it for him.
*  *  *
Honestly: we don’t need planet-shattering events or mega-crossovers or even wedding cake. We just need good stories that show us Batman is capable of growth and that his life isn’t a joyless slog of fighting for people only so he can mope about them. Forever. Sad Batman is a comedic meme for a reason.
*  *  *
Recommended If…
You want a “collectors’” book that likely will never actually be worth anything.
You like pin-up art from many different artists.
You’re a completionist (sorry!).

Edited July 4, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

8 hours ago, Featherhat said:

Someone pointed out that JM looks a bit like KC with her hair down and even acts like early LL (I guess the rule following, suit wearing version of Sara turned sometimes "pro vigilanting") and now I can't unsee it, so there's that. I also wish I had more enthusiasm because I don't think it's going anywhere, and I like JM as an actress but...….I partly feel like they skipped forward about 100 steps in their relationship (first date to pulling someone's soul back from the brink to breaking up/ILY) in 3 episodes, completely rushing it didn't help either. 

That's kinda funny because Jes Macallan said in an interview that she auditioned for the role of Dinah Drake (now played by JH) and, as we know, Dinah took over the BC mantle from KC's Laurel Lance.

Edited July 4, 2018 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Uh, Quentin Lance wasn't "the closest thing" Sara had to a father - he was her father...

Why Black Siren Should Join 'Legends of Tomorrow'
By JENNA ANDERSON - July 3, 2018
http://comicbook.com/dc/2018/07/04/legends-of-tomorrow-laurel-lance-black-siren-arrow-arrowverse/

Quote

But over the sixth season of Arrow, plenty of viewers (and characters within the show) started to see a different side to Black Siren, one that could hint at her possibly becoming a hero. Granted, we have no idea where her storyline will evolve from here, but there's one outcome we'd love to see -- Black Siren joining the ensemble of Legends of Tomorrow.
*  *  *
But one place where Siren would be able to flourish into a hero - or, at least, someone with more heroic alliances - would be on the Waverider. Sure, a small handful of the Legends' current team members had a past with Earth-1 Laurel, which we'll get to in a bit. But the team has quite a bit of history of helping former villains (hello, Mick Rory and Leonard Snart) grow and become more than the villainous things they committed in the past.
*  *  *
After Lance was shot by Diaz in the season six finale, Siren contacted Sara and was able to get her to come to 2018 Star City, so she'd be able to be with her father in his final moments. The interaction we saw between the two of them was a long-time coming, but also a little heartbreaking, as they both attempted to deal with the grief of the man who was the closest thing they had to a father.
*  *  *
And outside of that, it would be interesting to see just the little nuances of how Sara and Siren would interact with each other, and what ways it would be different from Sara and Earth-1's Laurel's close (but complicated) bond. After all, it's never been confirmed that there was a Sara on Earth-2, so the idea of Siren working with the sister she literally never had could be interesting.
*  *  *
For one thing, there's the sort of departing message that Laurel left Sara in Legends' series premiere, where she motivated her to not be weighed down by her previous actions and instead focus on being "a hero in the light". Now that Sara has fulfilled that promise in spades, it'd be interesting to see her pass a similar sort of message on to Black Siren. And in a way, Siren joining the Legends would give Lance's bond with Siren a chance to essentially live on. 
*  *  *
For one thing, Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh) and John Constantine (Matt Ryan) have both had somewhat of a rapport with Earth-1 Laurel over season three and four of Arrow (as well as season two of Vixen), which would make their dynamic with Siren something interesting to see.
*  *  *
Would Siren know the Earth-2 counterparts of any of the teammates? Who would she ultimately end up bonding with? And god almighty, what would it be like if Siren crossed paths with Gary Green (Adam Tsekhman)?
*  *  *
On that note, Siren being a full-fledged member of the Legends could bring something relatively new for the show -- an alternate version of history.
*  *  *
And finally, Siren joining Legends would give her something that has also been set up for quite some time - freedom to be whoever the heck she wants to be.
*  *  *
Instead of trying to fit her into the mold of Team Arrow - or making her some sort of occasional ally - Legends would essentially give Siren the opportunity to finally have that sense of personal freedom. And at the same time, it would still give Siren a substantial role in the Arrowverse's proceedings, allowing her to have a similar sort of significance that Earth-1 Laurel had, while still paving her own way.

SLIDE 1 of 7  #REDEMPTIONFORBLACKSIREN
SLIDE 2 of 7  A NEW RELATIONSHIP WITH SARA
SLIDE 3 of 7  LEGACY
SLIDE 4 of 7  A NEW STATUS QUO FOR THE LEGENDS
SLIDE 5 of 7  A NEW PERSPECTIVE
SLIDE 6 of 7  A NEW SET OF POWERS
SLIDE 7 of 7  A WORTHY ENDGAME

Edited July 4, 2018 by tv echo

[Starfish35]

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

For one thing, Ray Palmer (Brandon Routh) and John Constantine (Matt Ryan) have both had somewhat of a rapport with Earth-1 Laurel over season three and four of Arrow

That’s a huge stretch.  They both interacted with her briefly in one episode each. 

31 minutes ago, tv echo said:

Uh, Quentin Lance wasn't "the closest thing" Sara had to a father - he was her father...

And there’s that.  Ugh.  

Edited July 4, 2018 by Starfish35

[Primal Slayer]

I'd love it. And they could use her joining as a jumping off point to the team traveling the multiverse which is something I've wanted them to do forever now.

[statsgirl]

1 hour ago, tv echo said:

So after a year of marketing, of tie-ins, of in-verse characters being excited to see this whole thing come off, of villains trying their darndest to spoil the fun, it’s ultimately Selina who just irrationally decides that all the reassurances and proofs and hopes that led up to this moment pale in comparison to some bizarre perception that marrying Batman will be the end of the Dark Knight. King writes Selina like she’s a straight-up idiot who thinks her “sacrifice” is unselfish, and infantilizes Bruce as if he’s someone who can’t make up his own mind who he is/wants to be and needs his girlfriend to do it for him.

Wait, it's the woman's fault they didn't get married?

Of course it is.