Mind Your Surroundings: Arrow, The Flash, Supergirl, Legends of Tomorrow and Other Superhero Universes

[Mary0360]

I saw someone mention somewhere else that the first crossover ended with Oliver and Barry looking at Iris and Felicity thinking they wouldn't get the girl, so it brings the crossover history full circle to have Barry and Oliver share there wedding days where they both get the girl.

[Velocity23]

8 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Since the whole crossover shafted them anyway, they might as well have had the Nazis crash the reception. Then maybe Felicity could have the spur of the moment inspiration to get married at the end, with Barry/Iris as witnesses.

Well the crossover was promoted with Oliver and another character exploring the question of true love. So it was always gonna focus more on Olicity then Westallen. Westallen was the reason the couples got together but not the main event. 

It turned out more of a story for Felicity being willing to take a leap with Oliver. And it gave Iris moments to shine outside of Barry by teaming her up with felicity. 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Velocity23

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Yeah, because they shared SO many scenes together in this crossover. No, they were completely shafted, actually. And then even their shitty wedding next to vomit gets rudely interrupted AGAIN. 

Not sure if the "I do" omission could become a thing, but I suppose it's possible. Not sure why they wouldn't actually be married or anything though (they must have had a marriage license already, right?) Plus, it didn't sound like Diggle was going to do the traditional "do you take" speech anyway, he asked if they had their own vows instead.

I do think they showed Iris's vows on that piece of paper for a reason though (the kid's probably going to have an old copy of them).

WA's wedding might've been the reason for getting the heroes together but it wasn't the whole plot for the crossover so it was obvious they weren't going to share many scenes. 

I don't know what to tell you tbh. I mean, Olicity didn't even get vows whereas WA did. They had proper vows which had been completed and all Felicity interrupted was Diggle's announcement.

I guess I'm so used to not getting everything easily that I'm just happy with what Olicity did get. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[tofutan]

I thought Felicity interrupting the vows came off as very tacky. I do think Westallen got so many build up stuff, they were still treated reasonably fairly, in the sense of who got more overall, but the wedding felt like it was coming right at the heels of Stein's emotional death and funeral, so it wasn't that stellar for either couple imo. 

I thought Barry and Iris showed a lot of good communication in the crossover and the writers did care enough to include Barry/Iris scenes at the important markers where they get to talk about their feelings. I do think Westallen would have been better off if they had a small spontaneous solo wedding with only their family present as the conclusion. 

[popgoesculture]

I'm just glad the weddings are all over and done with, since both couples have had either an engagement party/bachelorette and bachelor party/wedding planning scenes, etc. It was weirdly written, and it feels off for Barry and Iris to get married without Joe there (like you had time to get Digg but not Joe?), but at least they're all married and we can stop the will they/won't they/terrible relationship writing because these writers think there are no storylines for actual couples. In an ideal world, we'd have better writers who do these characters and their romances justice, particularly by giving both women rich and complex lives apart from their role of love interests. 

I will say that I thought GG was not great in the actual vow scene. I was a little disappointed with his performance, because I thought CP killed it, especially at the end of her vows. But I've always had issues with their chemistry or lack thereof.  And then EBR and SA just jump in there with the looks and the instant chemistry and kind of blow up the whole scene, so it just pales in comparison, I guess. 

Side note: Iris and Felicity make excellent potential BFFs, but I would've loved to see Sara interact with Felicity instead of just Oliver. They were friends once upon a time! 

[ruby24]

I thought Grant was fantastic in the church wedding scene, when watching Iris walk down the aisle and everything. He did seem not as enthused for the vows, you're right. Maybe he also thought them actually getting married like this was a bummer.

[lemotomato]

16 minutes ago, ruby24 said:

Maybe he also thought them actually getting married like this was a bummer.

Then maybe Barry shouldn't have suggested that Oliver marry them right then and there using his mayoral authority and snatching Diggle when Oliver demurred.

[Trini]

3 hours ago, NumberCruncher said:

LMAO! Someone wrote an entire article about something that lasted 30 seconds in a 4-hour crossover.  That's...pretty damn funny.

Eh. Longer rants have been posted here about stuff that's way less important than the marriage of show lead. But at least they're getting paid.

[apinknightmare]

5 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

Then maybe Barry shouldn't have suggested that Oliver marry them right then and there using his mayoral authority and snatching Diggle when Oliver demurred.

Lots of "we just want to be married already" going on - which makes sense on the heels of a Nazi invasion, a trip to Earth X, run ins with evil doppelgängers, a run in with a boyfriend's evil doppelgänger who threatens to kill you, a run-in with an Earth-X version of the woman you love who's in a concentration camp, a few near-death experiences and an actual funeral. An OMG I can't wait inconsiderate interruption borne from the desire to just DO IT ALREADY is forgivable, I think. I would feel differently if Felicity had stood up and interrupted Barry and Iris's church wedding when their friends and families were gathered for them. 

Also, since the article brought it up - I don't think there's anything rude about Oliver proposing to Felicity during the rehearsal dinner, since he did it quietly off in a corner at a table where just the two of them were present. He didn't get down on one knee or otherwise make a spectacle of himself that took away from Barry and Iris's night - except for when he wouldn't take Felicity's answer and she wound up snapping at him, LOL.

[Mellowyellow]

Can someone confirm if Oliver picked Felicity up a bit when they were reunited?

Because this is everything I have ever wanted in fanfic but upon multiple viewings I cannot work out if he did lift her up a bit?

Also why are people so excited about the kiss in the GA suit? Don't get me wrong, DIE HARD Olicity fan here, but I thought we got that with the "Just in case" kiss already?

[lemotomato]

But the "just in case" kiss was when they technically weren't back together yet, and lasted like a second. This was full on desperate, hands on faces, I'm-so-glad-you're-alive passionate reunion kiss. I loved it. 

In slow mo!

Edited November 29, 2017 by lemotomato

[Mellowyellow]

Ahh thanks!!!! Hehe I totally loved the kiss too but am more thrilled at the prospect that he lifted her up and swung her a bit. Long hours will be spent analysing that!

[lemotomato]

This is the best gif I could find of the hug!

[Mellowyellow]

Ok that looks like a "in and up" to me. Lift confirmed ?

[catrox14]

58 minutes ago, lemotomato said:

This is the best gif I could find of the hug!

[Mellowyellow]

Hubby finished watching the double wedding with me tonight and bless him he actually clapped as the camera moved out and the boys were kissing their brides! It was such a lovely scene with Diggle throwing his arms up in the air!!! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Hubby about Olicity: No vows! They just look at each other and you don't need vows with all that chemistry! I'm not a shipper but I got all the feels.

He's a stickler for his vows but he was sold with all the heart eyes!

***

Hubby's other gem for the night happened during the EvilOliver Felicity face off.

H: Has he got the hots for Felicity? Thought he was married to Overgirl?

M (pausing the screen): No! He wants to kill Felicity

H: You sure he doesn't have a thing for her? 

M: No! Pay attention!

To be fair he was playing games on his phone while watching but it amused me that this was the first conclusion he jumped to when he saw the scene!

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 hour ago, Mellowyellow said:

Hubby finished watching the double wedding with me tonight and bless him he actually clapped as the camera moved out and the boys were kissing their brides! It was such a lovely scene with Diggle throwing his arms up in the air!!! SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

Hubby about Olicity: No vows! They just look at each other and you don't need vows with all that chemistry! I'm not a shipper but I got all the feels.

He's a stickler for his vows but he was sold with all the heart eyes!

***

Hubby's other gem for the night happened during the EvilOliver Felicity face off.

H: Has he got the hots for Felicity? Thought he was married to Overgirl?

M (pausing the screen): No! He wants to kill Felicity

H: You sure he doesn't have a thing for her? 

M: No! Pay attention!

To be fair he was playing games on his phone while watching but it amused me that this was the first conclusion he jumped to when he saw the scene!

To be fair to your husband Nazi Oliver made a weird smiling face when Felicity was delivering her speech. Like I thought they were going to make him say that he admires her courage or something like that instead it was just SA that I think couldn’t keep a straight face. But it’s not that weird since his genuine reaction to EBR is essentially what created the ship..

Edited November 29, 2017 by Midnight Lullaby

[benteen]

8 hours ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, Barry and Iris got the bachelor/bachelorette parties, the pre-wedding prep, the rehearsal dinner, the wedding morning, the walk down the aisle and actual full-fledged vows (even if it was in a park next to vomit). Honestly what is there to be disappointed about? Literally everything is accounted for. 

Yeah, the audience got to see Barry and Iris do 99% of what goes into a wedding.  It's okay how the final 1% ended (even then, you got to hear the vows), although I agree it feels weird not to have Joe there.

[EmilyBettFan]

6 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

Can someone confirm if Oliver picked Felicity up a bit when they were reunited?

Because this is everything I have ever wanted in fanfic but upon multiple viewings I cannot work out if he did lift her up a bit?

Also why are people so excited about the kiss in the GA suit? Don't get me wrong, DIE HARD Olicity fan here, but I thought we got that with the "Just in case" kiss already?

For me I loved it because he's never kissed her in his mask/hood. 

I think that's what most people were wanting and we got it!

[Mellowyellow]

15 minutes ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

To be fair to your husband Nazi Oliver made a weird smiling face when Felicity was delivering her speech. Like I thought they were going to make him say that he admires her courage or something like that instead it was just SA that I think couldn’t keep a straight face. But it’s not that weird since his genuine reaction to EBR is essentially what created the ship..

Quite a few on this board picked up on it as well but I just found it amusing that it was the first conclusion my non shipping hubby would jump to.

[tangerine95]

I really don't get this idea that Felicity and Oliver did something bad or inappropriate by getting married like they did.I honestly get it from a shipping perspective in the sense that no one wants another couple marrying with your ship.I would probably be disappointed if we didn't get so many great scenes leading up to it,if we didn't have the fake wedding in 4.16 and the reception next week.But from a character point of view,I don't think it makes sense.It's not an ordinary wedding in any way.Before the ceremony in the park,olicity and westallen just fought literal nazis from another world,they saved and protected one another during it and it wasn't even the first time.They have shown to be supportive of one another's relationships all throughout their friendships and especially in the crossover.So this idea that Iris and Barry should mind that Felicity and Oliver also had a in the moment wedding alongside them after they all almost died and it was a improvised ceremony with no one else even there,strikes me as so petty tbh.

Edited November 29, 2017 by tangerine95

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Iris and Barry should mind that Felicity and Oliver also had a in the moment wedding alongside them after they all almost died and it was a improvised ceremony with no one else even there,strikes me as so petty tbh.

Yeah. I do get the general annoyance and would understand a level of hatred if Felicity busted up some long-planned nuptials but it came together in literally 60 seconds - because she suggested someone who could marry them!

[Mellowyellow]

I LOVED that Oliver was all "I do! I do!" after he says yes to her proposal.

It's going to take me MONTHS to get over this crossover!!!!!!

Part of me actually wants to quit while I'm winning! Is that crazy???? 

[JJ928]

I think WA fans have a right to be annoyed, I probably would be if the roles were reversed. That said, I think there's a Flash story reason why she interrupted in that moment. I do think WA will get a small ceremony like O/F are having next week, probably with their daughter (if she is their kid from the future) in attendance. However, while I would've been annoyed at the interruption, it wouldn't have bothered as much as what I'm seeing. This is why I was always anti Olicity xover wedding, because there is no way that would be the focal point. 

At the end of the day people were gonna be upset & complain regardless over the double wedding. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

To me it reads as competition between the two fandoms..like one couple has to be shown to be superior to the other..so people start counting how many scenes they had, tell their reasons why one and no time the other should have had that moment and so on..I don’t think it’s ideal to get married right after a funeral but other than that it makes sense looking at the plot of this “movie” to end it like that, with Barry and Iris confirming what they wanted to do since the beginning and with Oliver and Felicity making this journey that led them to realize it’s what they (well Felicity since Oliver has wanted it for years at this point) wanted. The only difference to me is that Barry and Iris did their journey to get there during the past episodes in their show while Oliver and Felicity did it during the crossover so in this way it felt to me like it was more about Oliver and Felicity than about Barry and Iris but talking about the whole plot and that’s what happens if one couple has already fixed all their issues. I thought the last scene was adorable for both couples and a good ending to the story they decided to tell during this crossover.

[bijoux]

With all the fathers and sons narratives, Marty and Jax's was very effective. Even though in all honesty, I don't think the actor playing Jax was very good in those scenes, they got me. And it was lovely how they included examples of both romantic and familial love in the crossover. And Ray and Leo were a nice addition. They got more physical in one ep than Curtis and Paul ever did, didn't they? Speaking of familial love, odd that they didn't at least have Sara mention maybe seeing her Dad after his evil gangbanger (™ Mick Rory) tried to have her executed.

One thing I loved about Earth X is how the resistance gathered in the bunker, like this is a space where people gather across universes to try to make their world a better place. Would have loved to see FelicityX there, but I still very much appreciated her always putting up a fight.

I still don't get some basics about Earth X. 1) Whatever about the evil marriage, but why is EvilOliver in charge, and not EvilKara? 2) What is Leo looking for on this earth when his Ray goes back to Earth X? I mean, the scenes with Mick were great, let it out, buddy, heh. Still, I don't get it. 3) Why IS Ray going back without even trying to contact the family Leo mentioned? 4) What made Earth X Quentin British?

Is next year's crossover finally going to be the one where everyone gathers to ream Barry for his horrible choices? Sure, time travelling, dimension hopping, murdering psychopath, just go! I can't even stand to look at you! Seriously, they could have dopplegangers from various planets showing up for this occassion, because they'll probably get Thawne wrecking havoc on them in the following year.

[Midnight Lullaby]

1 minute ago, bijoux said:

 

I still don't get some basics about Earth X. 1) Whatever about the evil marriage, but why is EvilOliver in charge, and not EvilKara?

About this..when Overgirl was all mocking Kara about how if she was strong enough she’d have the power on E1 I was waiting for Kara to point out that Overgirl can talk all she wants but despite her superior strength she isn’t even the leader on her earth, a regular guy is.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

That said, I think there's a Flash story reason why she interrupted in that moment.

I think TPTB really wanted to end on the visual of both ships getting married at the same time - that  shot of the kisses - it’s the kind of schmaltzy love conquers all kind of thing that they would want at the end of a crossover about Nazis, and it’s a nice callback to the very first crossover when Oliver told Barry that guys like them don’t get the girl. 

In order to get that, Felicity couldn’t suggest that she and Oliver get married before Diggle started, because he’d marry B&I first, then go to O&F. Same reason why she couldn’t do it after. Someone had to interrupt in order for them to be pronounced husbands and wives (LOL) at the same time, and since Felicity was the one with the cold feet, it had to be her. 

Just like most things with these shows, the logic and optics are swept aside in order to get a cool shot. 

[leopardprint]

13 minutes ago, bijoux said:

I still don't get some basics about Earth X. 1) Whatever about the evil marriage, but why is EvilOliver in charge, and not EvilKara?

Especially since judging from their 150 person army in a single warehouse, Oliver-X blew the budget on oversized draperies, dirigibles and unnecessary uplighting.

[JJ928]

@apinknightmare I agree with this too. These shows are not known for thinking outside the box. However, if that girl ends up being WA's daughter that time traveled to watch her parents marry, I do think they'll get a small ceremony or reception at some point this season.

[Mellowyellow]

EvilOliver is not the brightest spark. Why did he leave weak and plugged in Overgirl alone while the heroes were storming Star Labs?

Dumbass! 

[JJ928]

Infinity War trailer

[Morrigan2575]

I'm crying. The scene of Cap, Bucky, Hulk, Panther, Widow and Michonne running into battle has me in tears

[calliope1975]

 I'm so excited and it looks amazing.

[JJ928]

Bearded Cap is everything. I hope Okoye has a decent amount of screen time. Honestly, that trailer looks so good & I didn't even like the other Avenger films.

[NumberCruncher]

8 minutes ago, JJ928 said:

Infinity War trailer

*SQUEEEEE*

(That is all)

[insomniadreams88]

Some of the people upset about the double wedding seem to have forgotten it took place on Legends of Tomorrow. Not The Flash. 

[Morrigan2575]

Pretty much same as Monday a little higher in viewers.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

I'm weirdly meh about that trailer. I think because I'm still on the high of the DCTV crossover. I'm also not invested in the Marvel characters like I am the DCTV characters.

[icandigit]

I admit I was bothered by Felicity interrupting the vows. But, then I was wondering why Diggle married the four of them together. The more I thought about it. I think it works. Both Iris and Barry have crushes on Oliver. Now he won't have to be on Iris list of 3. Its unconventional but I get it.  

[Sakura12]

I'm really confused on how people watch tv. Why are people watching every week for the first half hour and not the second, and why did more people tune in for the end of the Crossover? Did they not watch the rest of it? 

I'm excited for Infinity War, I love the Marvel movies. The only DC movie I liked was Wonder Woman. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I know Oliver and Kara are the leads of their shows but I would have made Lance the leader of EX. To rule you don’t have to be the strongest physically (or Overgirl would have been the leader) and I found PB much more convincing and intimidating than EX Oliver and EX Kara combined. SA looked like he was sleepwalking and showed signs of life only when he had to speak.

[Lady Calypso]

I do want to chime in my own two cents on the crossover and the Olicity/WestAllen double wedding. I think that each show kind of got shafted in some way. For example, Supergirl fans had to watch their episode become a Flash episode. If they didn't want to watch the entire crossover, that meant that many missed the Flash episode that relied heavily on the Supergirl characters. Same with The Flash fans, where the promotion of Iris and Barry's wedding happened in the first hour and then Barry got sidelined for two hours, while WestAllen didn't share as many scenes as Olicity. I am a fan of both couples, but I even noticed the shift after the attempted wedding and how the crossover was more about Olicity than WestAllen. Again, because Grant Gustin wasn't in the crossover episodes as much as Stephen Amell or even Melissa Benoist. The crossover focused on Olicity, Firestorm, and Supergirl/Overgirl for the most part. 

Now, I loved the crossover. I thought it was very well done, and I didn't hate the double wedding, but I see why some fans would be annoyed by it. The issue is that many viewers probably don't watch all four shows. That's the major issue with the crossover events; if you only watch one or two of the shows, anything else pertaining to other characters will be lost. So for WestAllen fans who aren't Olicity fans, I can see their annoyance with Olicity also getting married during that scene. Sure, the Olicity development from the crossover was extremely well done. But WestAllen got the first hour, and then got put into the background. And for sole Flash fans, I can imagine their annoyance that WestAllen finally getting their wedding scene was also combined with Olicity fans. But I mostly blame the showrunners who probably thought a spontaneous double wedding would be a cool shot to end on. Also, it might have helped if they rearranged WestAllen/Olicity kissing. 

I did find the WestAllen vows lovely and I'm partially disappointed that there were no vows from Felicity, so I think both couples kind of got shafted in that particular scene in some way. But, for me being fans of both, I'm happy they're married. I don't think Oliver and Felicity are monsters for jumping in on the WestAllen moment, but I can see how some people are turned off and annoyed. That makes perfect sense to me. 

Personally, if I could tweak the scene a little bit, I would have allowed Diggle to pronounce WestAllen as husband and wife before having Felicity jump in to also ask Diggle to marry them. 

[catrox14]

Maybe I missed it but did they  explain why EX Oliver was the Fuhrer? Like did he inherit the mantle? Did he kill other Nazis to advance to that position? I don't know why the Fuhrer would even be allowed by his minions  to go to Earth One even if it is to kill Supergirl to save his wife.

[BunsenBurner]

Loved the crossover. Olicity finally resolved all their issues and were married.  I could/might quit the DC universe and be happy. 

I am now sure that I made the right decision in quitting Supergirl and the Flash. I am considering going back to LOT because of Mick. 

[NumberCruncher]

Quote

I'm currently a bit behind on crossover antics and I'm just reading the board to keep up.   But yikes,  people seem grumpy on the other boards about having to know about the other shows, yet I don't watch Supergirl or the Flash and thought that they did a pretty good job of mixing all the characters together 

Bringing over this post from @Delphi in the episode thread...

That's the whole point of these crossovers though--characters from all the shows interact on all four shows.  I would have thought that after four seasons of doing them people would have caught on to this concept but I guess not.

The other thing that I don't really get is the anger over certain characters being highlighted in a given year's crossover versus other years.   That's also been the case for four seasons now.  I mean, didn't we all have to endure the boring-ass Hawkman/Hawkgirl drama that consumed the 2nd crossover when they weren't even regular characters in the Arrowverse yet?

Re: the wedding drama this year, I can get the annoyance that thunder was somehow "stolen" (which is even questionable given the messy, haphazard timing of the thing being tacked onto A FRIGGIN' FUNERAL), but in my mind that's not much different than fans of Arrow being so frustrated that they had to share its 100th episode with the characters from all the other shows last year.  That's just how the DCTV cookie crumbles when it comes to the almighty crossovers.  I suspect that next year we'll be dealing with whole different set of pissed off fans because their characters/couple didn't get the spotlight.

Edited November 29, 2017 by NumberCruncher

[lemotomato]

1 hour ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Pretty much same as Monday a little higher in viewers.

Hmm. So much for the theory that starting the crossovers with The Flash would have yielded better ratings.

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, lemotomato said:

Hmm. So much for the theory that starting the crossovers with The Flash would have yielded better ratings.

Yeah, that was one of my thoughts yesterday and that doesn't seem to be the case. I think @quarks nailed it in the Ratings Thread, the crossover peaks at (or around) Flash's high water mark for the season. Flash is down this season, so the Crossover is down.

[ladylaw99]

The only problem I have with the crossover is that I wish I could  pick certain characters from other shows and bring them to Arrow.  It also confirms that unless it is a crossover or a fav character  making an appearance I will not be watching the Flash or Supergirl, which sucks because I like Alex and Iris.

I am so glad I started watching Legends.  They crack me up and I need alot of that since my days are so crappy at work.  

@Mellowyellow I am even starting to like Ray.  Who would have thought that day would come.

[Velocity23]

Quote

Kreisberg’s termination also marks the end of his overall deal with WB, while his name is slated to eventually be removed from the credits of the four shows. Though Kreisberg was an executive producer on all of the current CW superhero shows, he was more hands-on with The Flash and Supergirl. Both shows already have other co-showrunners in place: Jessica Queller and Robert Rovner on Supergirl and Todd Helbing on The Flash.

“After a thorough investigation, Warner Bros. Television Group has terminated Andrew Kreisberg’s employment, effective immediately,” Warner Bros. Television Group said in a statement. “Greg Berlanti will assume additional responsibilities on both The Flash, where he will work closely with executive producer/co-showrunner Todd Helbing, and Supergirl, where he will work closely with executive producers/co-showrunners Robert Rovner and Jessica Queller. We remain committed to providing a safe working environment for our employees and everyone involved in our productions.”

 

Edited November 29, 2017 by Velocity23