S07.E04: SYSTEM OVERLOAD 2017.12.11

[Tatum]

3 hours ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

This is why I should read the whole thread before posting. I was really thinking Maci might be buying some  diy home test for Ryan to take. I mean why pay 400$ every time Ryan wants to see Bentley instead of going to court and having the court order them. Then I'm sure Ryan would be made to pay for them or, at least, half. There has to be some reason Maci doesn't want to involve the courts. Maybe it is just that she wants to maintain all control. That's not a good enough reason though. 

I didn't know they sold drug tests to people over the counter. Interesting. 

If Maci was going to go that route though, I would strongly recommend she actually watches him pee on the stick/in the cup. But Larry would just say the whole drug test was a sham for Maci to get a long awaited peek at Ryan's penis.

Based on Ryan's actions since getting out of rehab, and his discomfort over a potential drug test, I think speculation that he's back on something is not unjustified. That could be why he did an about face with Mack and went from filing for divorce to a reenacted second wedding, for the sake of obtaining additional income to get drugs. If this is true (and I fully concede this is speculation only), Mack is even more loathsome than I thought.

[AmandaUnbidden]

1 hour ago, Tatum said:

I didn't know they sold drug tests to people over the counter. Interesting. 

If Maci was going to go that route though, I would strongly recommend she actually watches him pee on the stick/in the cup. But Larry would just say the whole drug test was a sham for Maci to get a long awaited peek at Ryan's penis.

Based on Ryan's actions since getting out of rehab, and his discomfort over a potential drug test, I think speculation that he's back on something is not unjustified. That could be why he did an about face with Mack and went from filing for divorce to a reenacted second wedding, for the sake of obtaining additional income to get drugs. If this is true (and I fully concede this is speculation only), Mack is even more loathsome than I thought.

I don't know if there is at home drug testing but I bet there is. I'm sure Maci meant she was paying for a facility to do the testing. Looking back on it now, that makes way more sense. I just thought she was talking about doing it herself for some reason. It is kind of hilarious thinking about her administering the test, a plastic cup in one hand and a Bud Light in the other. ?

Oh, and I think you're on to something in regards to why he stopped the divorce, etc. I bet you that's exactly what happened. I have no doubt Mac is that disgusting of a person. 

[Jax7917]

Larry has a lot of  screws loose. The guy is nuts.

[MissMel]

There are at home tests.  If Tennessee is like Florida, the parent requesting the test (drug or paternity) pays.  If the other parent tests positive, they pay.  This way the test gets paid for either way. It's a way to cut down on accusations.  It's only $100 here for the drug test though.  I just learned yesterday that hair follicle tests don't go back as far as people think either.  It's 90 days for THC and 60-ish for opiates.  

I wouldn't go to the court if I were Maci.  No way.  Even if she has nothing to hide or a lot to hide, it's on Ryan at this point.  Let him be the one to present, prove, and pay for his case if he wants to.  Nothing is stopping him and nobody should have to tell him to provide a clean drug screen.  Don't get me wrong, I don't think her hands are clean but "if it ain't broke-don't fix it."  Plus you just know Mackenzie is driving him nuts 24/7 about it.  Time for the 30 year old boy to take care of his own mess.  Or not.  

[teapot]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 3:53 AM, mamadrama said:

I created an online Amazon Ads course for authors. I've been pushing it all week and it finally went "live" today. It's hopefully going to give us extra money for December and January. We have a lot riding on it. Within an hour, 10 people had signed up for it. Three hours later, my entire website crashed. People were messaging me left and right, kind of panicking. 

It was embarrassing and frustrating but you know what I did? Apologized to everyone, sent a ticket to Bluehost, and waited until it was back up. 

You know what I DIDN'T do? Freak out, melodramatically feel like my life was over, and then ask my husband to send me to rehab. 

But did you take a boat ride without your children, you know, because you needed a break?

[ReadMeLattice]

2 hours ago, Tatum said:

I didn't know they sold drug tests to people over the counter. Interesting. 

If Maci was going to go that route though, I would strongly recommend she actually watches him pee on the stick/in the cup. But Larry would just say the whole drug test was a sham for Maci to get a long awaited peek at Ryan's penis.

Based on Ryan's actions since getting out of rehab, and his discomfort over a potential drug test, I think speculation that he's back on something is not unjustified. That could be why he did an about face with Mack and went from filing for divorce to a reenacted second wedding, for the sake of obtaining additional income to get drugs. If this is true (and I fully concede this is speculation only), Mack is even more loathsome than I thought.

You have just given me my first laugh of the day with that second paragraph!!!

[guilfoyleatpp]

14 hours ago, S86226 said:

All about the presentation, as we watch her shove that stuff into that box and wrestle it shut!

I wondered how much they spent on those boxes and packaging and how much it cut into their profit margin.  Website, materials, manufacturing, advertising, postage, personalized boxes and tissue paper, ribbon and WTF ever else?!

I could see that packaging being close to $5 a shipment, not including labor. 

[heatherchandler]

On 12/13/2017 at 8:07 AM, ElderPrice said:

I don't know much about addiction, thanks for educating me about PAWS, it sounds awful. I thought that "triggers" were for the addict's knowledge- understanding the things that make one want to use and learning how to cope so that it doesn't happen. Isn't that the addict's responsibility? Ryan and Mac are using the term to blame everyone around them for Ryan's using. Jen, stop crying! It's a trigger! Maci, stop breathing! Don't you know that's a trigger? At what point does Ryan take responsibility for his sobriety? 

 

I feel like I have to say something, just because this thread is making me sad.  Yes the addict will be the one who needs to be vigilant for the rest of his life, but addiction is a family disease.  It takes a lot to get clean and stay clean and you need a lot of support from your family.  

Dealing with a son or daughter's addiction is like having your life shaken up and turned upside down.  There is no way you can understand it until it god-forbid happens to you.  I of course feel sad for addicts, it is the hardest thing to do - to change yourself. But I really feel for the families of addicts.  You are not in charge of the addict's life, you can only take the advice of therapists, or doctors, but no one actually can give you a way to find yourself out of it.  There is no way out of it, you have to do the best you can do and just hope that the addict wants to change and it able to get through it.

Also to add, it is incredibly hard to use the "tough love" method.  You feel like you are turning your back on your child, and that may result in the child dying.  It is just a hellish thing to deal with.

It is hell - I don't mean it is tough, I mean it is crushing and horrifying and sad every day.

 

On 12/14/2017 at 10:37 AM, citychic said:

 

I completely agree with both of you, she has the money, the means and the time to be cleaner but she's making that choice because she's lazy and in my opinion she's using the mental illness route as even more of an excuse to be lazy.

 

 

Sometimes depression presents itself as laziness.  I do think she also has a tendancy toward being lazy, but she is also mentally ill.  

Edited December 15, 2017 by heatherchandler

[Lusterleaf]

I thought I'd never say this, but Farrah seems more likeable this season.

I am not of fan of Maci's ear gauges. Also, should have called Mackenzie out when she was texting from Ryan's phone pretending to be him.

I find myself fast forwarding Catilyn and Tyler's scenes.

[Tatum]

5 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

I feel like I have to say something, just because this thread is making me sad.  Yes the addict will be the one who needs to be vigilant for the rest of his life, but addiction is a family disease.  It takes a lot to get clean and stay clean and you need a lot of support from your family.  

Dealing with a son or daughter's addiction is like having your life shaken up and turned upside down.  There is no way you can understand it until it god-forbid happens to you.  I of course feel sad for addicts, it is the hardest thing to do - to change yourself. But I really feel for the families of addicts.  You are not in charge of the addict's life, you can only take the advice of therapists, or doctors, but no one actually can give you a way to find yourself out of it.  There is no way out of it, you have to do the best you can do and just hope that the addict wants to change and it able to get through it.

Also to add, it is incredibly hard to use the "tough love" method.  You feel like you are turning your back on your child, and that may result in the child dying.  It is just a hellish thing to deal with.

It is hell - I don't mean it is tough, I mean it is crushing and horrifying and sad every day.

I get this, I really do, and I would not wish this on anyone.

 

But the Edwards family is not taking this seriously. They aren't looking into Al-Anon (that we know of), they aren't talking family therapy, and they're pointing fingers at who is to blame instead of looking at how they, as a family, are going to manage this issue. They seem far more concerned with their public image and being angry over perceived slights from Maci.

[StatisticalOutlier]

13 hours ago, mamadrama said:

No, that wasn't what I was saying at all. What I was saying is that people dress to be comfortable here, but if there is an important event then we know how to make ourselves presentable, not because we care what others think, but because most of us around here actually enjoy dressing up from time to time-men AND women. 

Look, I enjoy to snark, which is what I was doing, but like others before me I was making fun of the situation AND myself. I do not enjoy having my words twisted to make someone else's point.

I don't think I twisted your words, and I certainly didn't intend to.  You said if the straggliest person in your town had a national TV appearance, that person would be sure to have makeup on and curled hair, and I said I assumed you were talking about a woman.  I don't think that was twisting your words.

I understand that people enjoy dressing up from time to time but as @Lm2162 said:

11 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

In all honesty, I don't think the Cate comments were sexist. I think @StatisticalOutlier was making a general point about how "put together" for women is generally believed to include makeup and hair styling, which is odd becuse men aren't expected to. I've always found that quite annoying as well. I didn't take it to mean anything about the board.

 

 

26 minutes ago, Tatum said:

I get this, I really do, and I would not wish this on anyone.

But the Edwards family is not taking this seriously. They aren't looking into Al-Anon (that we know of), they aren't talking family therapy, and they're pointing fingers at who is to blame instead of looking at how they, as a family, are going to manage this issue. They seem far more concerned with their public image and being angry over perceived slights from Maci.

It's the "that we know of"s that bother me.  We know almost nothing about these people.  Someone in this thread even asked what Larry does for a living, and that person is presumably more than just a drive-by viewer. 

I know, there's a price to be paid when you go on a reality show and don't have final cut, and maybe that's the Edwardses' biggest mis-step.  They're definitely not taking Ryan's addiction and treatment seriously if what we saw is the sum total of everything they've done to address it, but I doubt that's the case.  In fact, didn't the show omit any mention of his prior stint in rehab?  If so, we're clearly not getting anywhere near the full picture.  And to be honest, that's not the show's job--the show's job is to bring in viewers, and if an accurate portrayal gets in the way of that, then the accurate portrayal has to go.

I'm all for judging these people, and judging them harshly for that matter, but I'm always mindful of how much producer and editor manipulation goes on, and try not to be any more of a victim of that than is necessary, while still watching the show.  It's not an easy balance, especially when it means I have to give some cretins the benefit of the doubt.

[Tatum]

8 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

It's the "that we know of"s that bother me.  We know almost nothing about these people.  Someone in this thread even asked what Larry does for a living, and that person is presumably more than just a drive-by viewer. 

I know, there's a price to be paid when you go on a reality show and don't have final cut, and maybe that's the Edwardses' biggest mis-step.  They're definitely not taking Ryan's addiction and treatment seriously if what we saw is the sum total of everything they've done to address it, but I doubt that's the case.  In fact, didn't the show omit any mention of his prior stint in rehab?  If so, we're clearly not getting anywhere near the full picture.  And to be honest, that's not the show's job--the show's job is to bring in viewers, and if an accurate portrayal gets in the way of that, then the accurate portrayal has to go.

I'm all for judging these people, and judging them harshly for that matter, but I'm always mindful of how much producer and editor manipulation goes on, and try not to be any more of a victim of that than is necessary, while still watching the show.  It's not an easy balance, especially when it means I have to give some cretins the benefit of the doubt.

Well, then going by that I just really don't see any point in commenting on anything we see, since presumably there's always something we don't know about any particular scene.

 

I will go on record as saying I find it highly unlikely that Jen and Larry have been to Al-Anon, given what we do see. I fully concede it is possible that they have, but given how much in denial they've shown themselves to be, the way they on camera seem to blaming everyone but Ryan for his addiction, them sitting around drinking when Ryan has been out of rehab for 20 seconds- the context clues to me don't seem to indicate this family is taking the addiction seriously.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 minutes ago, Tatum said:

Well, then going by that I just really don't see any point in commenting on anything we see, since presumably there's always something we don't know about any particular scene.

As I said, it's a difficult balance.  Just like many issues in the world, I can't think of an easy answer.  My main coping mechanism is to try not to deal in absolutes.  I snark anyway, but always keep in the back of my mind the calls for a college fund for Cate and Tyler--glad I didn't fall for that edit. 

 

Quote

I will go on record as saying I find it highly unlikely that Jen and Larry have been to Al-Anon, given what we do see. I fully concede it is possible that they have, but given how much in denial they've shown themselves to be, the way they on camera seem to blaming everyone but Ryan for his addiction, them sitting around drinking when Ryan has been out of rehab for 20 seconds- the context clues to me don't seem to indicate this family is taking the addiction seriously.

I agree that they don't seem to be adhering to the Al-Anon party line, and what's been shown on TV is not the way I would handle it.  But I don't think that necessarily means they're not taking it seriously.  Maybe they're like Jenelle's mother Barb, who's doing the best she can but falls short.  Unfortunately, in her case, there's a child who's suffering the consequences so I judge her harshly, while in the Edwardses' case, the "child" is 30 years old and Bentley doesn't have to bear the direct brunt of how Ryan's parents are handling it.  Or maybe I given them the benefit of the doubt or judge them less harshly because I just don't care about Ryan or them, and think Bentley will come out okay regardless of what happens.  Shoot, I've always thought he was Kyle's kid anyway.

[Tatum]

6 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 But I don't think that necessarily means they're not taking it seriously. 

I don't know that they're not, but I honestly don't think that they are. And I may be wrong. But based on what they have been saying, I think they see Ryan's rehab stint like say, a parent who gets a phone call in the middle of the night that their kid was pulled over driving home, has blown a 1.00 driving and now faces a DUI. Sure, the parents are disappointed in their kid's poor choices, and maybe angry at them, and fearful of what could have happened, but, no one was hurt, the kid was scared straight, and he can dig himself out of this mess with relative ease.

 

The vibe I have gotten is that Larry and Jen feel like this addiction happened in a vacuum, Ryan went to rehab, and is now "cured". I don't know that they have very realistic expectations of Ryan's ability to manage this, or the high probability of a relapse. Maybe multiple relapses. And I could very well be wrong. But that is the impression that I get.

[ghoulina]

11 hours ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

On Cait & Tyler, I hate to defend them but even Kylie Jenner'a site crashed the first time it went up. I'm actually surprised they generated enough visitors to crash it

It might not have been THAT many visitors. Depends on the size of their server. It seemed that Tyler upgraded servers after the crash. He is really frugal (one thing I like about him), so he might have been trying to go with the cheapest server he could. Lesson learned. 

2 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I wondered how much they spent on those boxes and packaging and how much it cut into their profit margin.  Website, materials, manufacturing, advertising, postage, personalized boxes and tissue paper, ribbon and WTF ever else?!

I could see that packaging being close to $5 a shipment, not including labor. 

I had the same thought. Cate's "all about presentation", but for what they're selling, I thought it looked like too much. I'd be stuffing that shit in a padded manilla envelope and calling it good! 

[jumper sage]

12 hours ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

I cannot get behind this idea at all. A mother should never hit their daughter in the face. Hell, a person should never hit anyone and not expect that person to call the police. That's assault, plain and simple. I saw the pics of Farrah's face. If you don't want the police called, keep your hands off other people.

[stands and shouts] BRAVO, BRAVO.  I can't stand when parents hit kids it just makes them resentful and aggressive themselves.....................oh wait............

[citychic]

4 hours ago, heatherchandler said:

 

 

Sometimes depression presents itself as laziness.  I do think she also has a tendancy toward being lazy, but she is also mentally ill.  

 

It does present itself as laziness because you literally sit in the middle of it all and have no idea where to start, so you don't do anything. It's horrible.

I have severe manic bipolar so I respect what Cate is going through and depression is very real which will cause a person to not shower or take care of themselves.

I just don't think that Cate has that level of depression going on right now and if she truly embraced her inpatient stay then the minute she came home we should see some changed in eating and lifestyle, it's the only way to get better along with prescribed medication if needed. Chicken, broccoli and daily walks outdoors will cure more of Cate's problems in six months than anything else but that's where her lazy shows through. She took a room away from someone in the facility who might have actually really wanted to get better but I guess Cate had more money.

[ReadMeLattice]

1 hour ago, jumper sage said:

[stands and shouts] BRAVO, BRAVO.  I can't stand when parents hit kids it just makes them resentful and aggressive themselves.....................oh wait............

Yeah, I can't really defend Debra there. I don't agree with spanking and won't do it, but I acknowledge that a swat on a 3-year-old's butt for ignoring your directive not to run into the road is not necessarily abuse. But I don't care if it's your kid and they're the brattiest, worst kid in the world and you think you're entitled to authority over them: Hitting someone, anyone, in the face is abuse and it's a crime. Period. And there were clear bruises. Plus I believe Farrah was over 18 at that point anyway, at which point it's not even a question of child abuse but domestic violence. 

Also, the police arrived and could have chosen not to arrest Debra. Instead, they took pictures of her bruised face and upped the charges. *They* directed her to put down the knife she was holding and she would not. That tells me she was likely drunk and uncooperative. She said she was "cooking" and that's why she had a knife, but you never bring a knife to the door FOR THE COPS when you're cooking. Like, come on. If you do that you are either very intoxicated/high and/or very aggressive. 

Edited December 15, 2017 by Lm2162

[heatherchandler]

3 hours ago, Tatum said:

 

I will go on record as saying I find it highly unlikely that Jen and Larry have been to Al-Anon, given what we do see. I fully concede it is possible that they have, but given how much in denial they've shown themselves to be, the way they on camera seem to blaming everyone but Ryan for his addiction, them sitting around drinking when Ryan has been out of rehab for 20 seconds- the context clues to me don't seem to indicate this family is taking the addiction seriously.

 

I would say it is more that they have NO idea how to deal with a son addicted to heroin, which is probably how most people would feel.  There is no guidebook, and Al-Anon is great but it is not very widespread.  I think Jen and Larry are doing their best with a hellish situation.

[ReadMeLattice]

3 minutes ago, heatherchandler said:

 

I would say it is more that they have NO idea how to deal with a son addicted to heroin, which is probably how most people would feel.  There is no guidebook, and Al-Anon is great but it is not very widespread.  I think Jen and Larry are doing their best with a hellish situation.

I agree and I cut them some slack for that, but imo the problems there go way back and started way before the heroin. 

[SPLAIN]

4 hours ago, Tatum said:

Well, then going by that I just really don't see any point in commenting on anything we see, since presumably there's always something we don't know about any particular scene.

 

Fully agree. The board is for our entertainment and snark. Of course there is going to be assumptions, presumptions, questions will arise, and opinions are formed. And as we have known for several years now, the opinions we form can always change at any given moment due to more information that is presented to us via the show or from outside information which gets linked here from time to time. A big thanks to the members who take the time to do that for the board.

These particular threads shouldn't be be used for any campaigns or agendas. 

 

48 minutes ago, Lm2162 said:

I agree and I cut them some slack for that, but imo the problems there go way back and started way before the heroin. 

Indeed.

Hearing Larry mention how Ryan is their only child, even though we already knew that fact about them, there  was something about the way he said it, I can't put it into words. Did anyone else get something from that comment?

[mamadrama]

9 minutes ago, SPLAIN said:

Fully agree. The board is for our entertainment and snark. Of course there is going to be assumptions, presumptions, questions will arise, and opinions are formed. And as we have known for several years now, the opinions we form can always change at any given moment due to more information that is presented to us via the show or from outside information which gets linked here from time to time. A big thanks to the members who take the time to do that for the board.

These particular threads shouldn't be be used for any campaigns or agendas. 

 

Yes, thank you. I come here just to joke around and make fun of the bozos on these shows. (And to occasionally joke about my own experiences that tie in with said bozos/shows.) 

[mamadrama]

8 hours ago, teapot said:

But did you take a boat ride without your children, you know, because you needed a break?

THAT's what I did wrong! I forgot to jump in my leased "look at me, I got money y'all" vehicle and speed them over to our "look at us, all rich and stuff" boat. See, this is why I need you guys... ;-)

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 6:00 AM, Tatum said:

I agree with this. Listen, I can't stand Maci. And if anyone wants to know why I don't like her, I will have my list ready. However, it is not Maci's fault that Ryan is an addict. It's not her fault Ryan has been a shitty father pretty much since day one. It's not her fault Ryan never cared enough to get a formal custody agreement. And while, for Bentley's sake, Maci should try her hardest to get along with Ryan, it's not her job to manage Ryan as a father. If Ryan is so desperate to see Bentley, and has no legal recourse to force Maci to allow it at this moment (yes, he can go to court, but that will take time), then Ryan, swallow your damn pride, call up Maci, and ask her nicely to see Bentley, and agree to whatever terms she lists until you can get a court order in place that does not allow Maci to make those decisions.

 

If I had an addiction problem and temporarily lost custody of my kids, and the only way I could see them (at the moment, prior to however much time it took the courts to intervene), was to grovel to my ex, you can bet your ass I'd do it. If the former Mr. Tatum said, Tatum, if you want to see the kids prior to our court date in 3 weeks, you need to come to the house, ask me nicely, and sing a couple rounds of I'm a Little Teapot while doing the Bunny Hop, sure I'd be pissed and embarrassed. But I'd do it. And Maci is not asking him to debase himself in any way.

YES, THIS!  Omg, SO MUCH THIS!  All Maci was asking him to do was take a drug test AT HER EXPENSE.  He's acting like she's just straight up not allowing him to see Bentley which is a total lie.  Obviously Bentley WANTS to go to Jen and Larry's.  I'm sure telling him no isn't fun for her.  No mother wants to see their child hurt and disappointed.  Ryan refusing to even acknowledge her request regarding the drug test tells me everything I need to know.  Also, he's delusional if he thinks he can go through the courts and not have to take regular drug tests when he just got out of rehab (early) for HEROIN and isn't currently even participating in any sort of aftercare program. 

The entire Edwards clan (Mac included) make me want to scream.  You're not victims, you're assholes that are in deep DEEP denial about your current situation.  

[SPLAIN]

Going back to a point someone brought up about Maci withholding Bentley from the grandparents. When Larry revealed they had known for a long time about Ryan's drug issues, I was hoping he would say how long they knew. I would like for someone to ask them if they ever told Maci when they became aware of Ryan's drug issue or for Maci to reveal how the Edwards knew for a certain amount of time before she was informed. I imagine Maci would be extremely upset to know the Edwards knew Ryan was an addict and did not inform her immediately. That would certainly factor into withholding Bentley from his grandparents since they weren't honest with her about information that she would have a right to know. Not much has been said about that. I assume editing is the reason unless I missed some information on that matter.

[Emmierose]

I am thinking the wrap around Amber's head has to do with the editing.  When she got out of the car at Gary and Kristina's she seemed to kind of be chuckling about something, maybe the head wrap?  It seems to me that Amber is growing out that horrible bleached blond hair (hence the dark regrowth) and the wrap is to cover it up so that we don't know when it was exactly that visit to Gary's took place.   Remember in Teen Mom 2 when Chelsea was wearing a towel on her head and occasionally a wig to cover up the dyed hair so they could re-enact certain things?  I'm thinking the Ethel Mertz hair wrap is the same thing. 

[dabronx]

I find Ryan saying Jen tears are a trigger manipulative as fuck and I don't believe for a second it's true. Jen probably cries the most at Ryan's lack of desire to be a father and Ryan's fighting with his dad is normally about basically wanted to do whatever he wants whenever he wants it without considering the impact on anyone. Ryan's trigger is life and the fact that he's blocked from navigating it free from any obligations to anyone but himself.  He should say "I'm a selfish dick and my trigger is being asked to do anything that requires acknowledging anyone else's feelings or needs. I run to heroin to escape the slightest hint of other people's expectations of me giving a fuck about anyone but myself." It sure as fuck isn't about Jen's crying.

Edited December 16, 2017 by dabronx

[lezlers]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 6:10 PM, Lm2162 said:

Larry is starting to come across as a total dick. 

For sure.  I'm guessing Ryan was a quiet, sensitive child who Larry yelled at all the time (Taylor's description of how he acted at Bentley's game sealed the deal for me on that one.) Jen probably coddled Ryan to make up for Larry being a dick all the time and I'm guessing Jen and Larry probably fought constantly about it, likely in front of Ryan.  Hence Jen's crying being a "trigger."   Larry's assholeness is really starting to show now.

[lezlers]

17 hours ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

I commented before reading the whole thread but this could be the very thing Maci is afraid of. Interesting.

Why would Maci be afraid of getting drug tested?  She's never had a drug problem, she drinks.  And drinking isn't illegal.  As for the other post about Maci contaminating the drug test sample, I think you might be taking her offer of a drug test a little too literally.  She said she'd pay for it.  It'd be done by a lab.  LOL (I'm not LOLing at you, I'm LOLing at the mental image of Maci in a lab coat with a can of Bud Light administering Ryan's drug test.)

[S86226]

9 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I wondered how much they spent on those boxes and packaging and how much it cut into their profit margin.  Website, materials, manufacturing, advertising, postage, personalized boxes and tissue paper, ribbon and WTF ever else?!

I could see that packaging being close to $5 a shipment, not including labor. 

Absolutely!! I was thinking that too, presentation is great, but for just starting up, they seem to have gone overboard because those did not look like basic packaging supplies....by any means. 

23 hours ago, luvbadtv said:

And packing the clothes on paper that's laying on her carpet with the dog & small child bouncing around.  Who knows what ended up on those outfits (plus I'm sure they smoke in the house).  We know that they've had random turds on their floor.

Omg, I've got to stop drinking milk and reading these comments at night! 

A random turd on the floor, hahaha! In all honesty, it grosses me out thinking what else is/was on those floors while they package orders. 

Maybe they think the pet fur and stray turd residue are just an added bonus and touch of love to their presentation?

[jumper sage]

4 hours ago, Lm2162 said:

Yeah, I can't really defend Debra there. I don't agree with spanking and won't do it, but I acknowledge that a swat on a 3-year-old's butt for ignoring your directive not to run into the road is not necessarily abuse. But I don't care if it's your kid and they're the brattiest, worst kid in the world and you think you're entitled to authority over them: Hitting someone, anyone, in the face is abuse and it's a crime.

I am glad you brought up the old "runs into the street" argument.  Studies show that children that are hit WILL KEEP RUNNING to avoid being hit.  It is a counterproductive action by the parent.  In fact legally the parent will be held liable.

Quote

you can be liable both for the damage to the vehicle and for the child's injuries.  Generally we refer to this as negligent supervision.

This is the standard for parents in all 50 states.  If you can't control your child, without hitting, you should not be taking them out in the area of a road.  We were kept locked in the backyard until we were in kindergarten and I practiced the same with my own child.  You want out of the backyard?  You and I better work together to get you prepared for the dangers and practice safety.

What Debra did to Farrah is what we now see Farrah doing to her child, though not to the same extent.  We have seen her scream at the child where the child cowers.  That is never good.  Barring any physical of mental issues with the child, a calm parent will raise a calm child.

[StayingAfterSunday]

Just some random thoughts:

The “Jen Trigger” might refer to sadness and guilt that Ryan feels when his mother's name is mentioned.   It may remind him of the way his addiction has affected his mother’s life, as well as how it has impacted Bentley’s visits with both Jen and Larry.  Ironically, when an addicted person experiences unpleasant feelings their first impulse is to reach for something to squash those emotions, usually their drug of choice or some other mood-altering substance.  As most people would suspect, the addict has weak coping abilities. This is how the vicious cycle of addiction continues and continues...

Bentley: Bentley does not appear to be suffering or coming up short by way of his relationship with Jen and Larry.  Bentley, after all, is not Ryan, and is being raised primarily by Maci (and now Taylor, I guess).  To assume he will turn out just like Ryan because of Jen and Larry's rather limited involvement with him seems unfair. If anything, they seem to be contributing in a positive way to his development. 

Drug Treatment: With all of these things in mind, it would certainly be in all of their best interests for Ryan to get into a 90-day (30 at the absolute minimum) rehab. facility. While no one can force an addict into treatment, Ryan’s love for his parents may eventually move him to get help.  After all, they are all HE has, too. 

As for insurance or financial constraints preventing Ryan from entering a treatment program longer than 21 days, since Ryan is a "reality star," I wonder if it would be possible for him to use his so-called celebrity to acquire a spot (referred to as "scholarships") in a decent treatment facility.  I think it could be done, but Larry and Jen would probably need to assist Ryan in contacing treatment centers and inquiring about availability. 

Jen/Larry:   Larry looks as though he’s ready to implode.  Maybe, as some of you have surmised, this could relate to the “behind-the-scenes” occurrences that he’s not at liberty – or not encouraged by MTV – to tell.  I remember the ominous way he said, “The truth will come out,” or something to that effect with respect to Maci, etc.  

As for The Edwards’ not going to Al-Anon meetings, well, again, no one knows what happens when the cameras aren’t there.  Then again, many parents are reluctant to attend Al-Anon meetings, even when told they’d be doing so in the best interests of their child, because they themselves drink or take prescription drugs, etc., and fear being perceived as hypocrites.  Many parents feel that they should be leading sober lives in order to support their child(ren) in their recovery.

Edited December 16, 2017 by StayingAfterSunday

[AmyFarrahFowler]

2 hours ago, dabronx said:

I find Ryan saying Jen tears are a trigger manipulative as fuck and I don't believe for a second it's true. Jen probably cries the most at Ryan's lack of desire to be a father and Ryan's fighting with his dad is normally about basically wanted to do whatever he wants whenever he wants it without considering the impact on anyone. Ryan's trigger is life and the fact that he's blocked from navigating it free from any obligations to anyone but himself.  He should say "I'm a selfish dick and my trigger is being asked to do anything that requires acknowledging anyone else's feelings or needs. I run to heroin to escape the slightest hint of other people's expectations of me giving a fuck about anyone but myself." It sure as fuck isn't about Jen's crying.

So much this^^^^

[GreatKazu]

I am with @Tatum. I don't think the Edwards are attending any sort of meetings. My feeling is they are likely not ready to commit. Maybe they reluctantly went to a meeting at least once and found they are not ready to deal with what it entails to actually be supportive without the enabling. Whatever the case may be, there is nothing wrong with speculating and the Edwards give so much for us to speculate on. 

Quote

As for insurance or financial constraints preventing Ryan from entering a treatment program longer than 21 days, since Ryan is a "reality star," I wonder if it would be possible for him to use his so-called celebrity to acquire a spot (referred to as "scholarships") in a decent treatment facility.  I think it could be done, but Larry and Jen would probably need to assist Ryan in contacing treatment centers and inquiring about availability. 

Ryan would have to want to the help in the first place. I think Ryan reluctantly entered rehab both times. 

[AmandaUnbidden]

13 hours ago, ghoulina said:

It might not have been THAT many visitors. Depends on the size of their server. It seemed that Tyler upgraded servers after the crash. He is really frugal (one thing I like about him), so he might have been trying to go with the cheapest server he could. Lesson learned. 

Yeah, I didn't mean they got as much traffic as Kylie did. Just that like you said, they generated more traffic than anticipated, which sounds like a good thing to me.

Of course it's all moot now because it seems they've already dropped the ball with the whole business. Not updating the site and not putting up the "fall line" they promised.

In real life, if someone had a new business they're trying to get off the ground and a family emergency happens like with Cait, the business owner doesn't just stop working altogether, especially when it's a business you can mostly do from home.

Tyler should've gotten Cait settled at the facility then got his ass back home and continued working on his business. He can't even use Nova as an excuse because they have a ton of babysitters at their disposal at all times. There is no reason he had to delay the fall line or anything else. In reality, he was out partying instead of working. This business is gonna fail if it has to depend on these two knuckleheads' work ethics. 

[AmandaUnbidden]

I wanted to comment on the Ryan's triggers topic. I wrote about it over on his thread but I wanted to discuss it more over here. 

If Ryan's triggers are his mom crying and Bentley, then those are his triggers to deal with. For example say I'm an addict, and my trigger is my daughter feeling disappointed in me. That is a valid trigger for me. Does that mean my daughter should not feel that way or express those feelings to me? No, it means in the past my daughter expressed to me how disappointed she was in me and instead of dealing with that and trying to change so she could feel proud instead of disspointed, I went and got high to numb how I was feeling. I used the drugs so I didn't have to feel those terrible emotions of being a bad mother. Once I figured out my triggers, I could then deal with the issue at hand instead of running away and getting high. So I could acknowledge my daughter's pain and make the changes necessary to be a person she could be proud of instead of disappointed in. 

It's the same with Ryan and Jen. Jen crying is a trigger for Ryan to go get high. So should Jen hold back her tears and never feel any negative emotions or express them because they trigger Ryan? No. Ryan needs to confront this trigger head on. Why does your mom crying make you want to get high Ryan? Is it because you love your mom and you can't face the fact you are hurting her and disappointing her? What can you do to stop causing her hurt and pain? See those are the kind of questions Ryan's triggers need to evoke. He needs to think about this in therapy so he can change his life. What makes me angry is Larry took this as Jen's crying caused Ryan to use so this is all her fault, and she better stop this weak crying bullshit in front of Ryan. Larry completely misssed the whole point. 

Same thing with Bentley. If Bentley is a trigger for Ryan, then he needs to figure out why. Maybe he can't face the fact that he has not been a good father to Bentley. He also may not want to prove Maci right by acknowledging it. I mean who would want to have Maci on the other side gloating over your vulnerability? But again, these are Ryan's issues to face not theirs. I guess Maci could take into account how hard this might be for Ryan to admit she was right and be more understanding but again, she doesn't have to do anything. This is all on Ryan. Those around him that love him can only support him and show him tough love if needed. 

[Calm81]

1 hour ago, AmandaUnbidden said:

I wanted to comment on the Ryan's triggers topic. I wrote about it over on his thread but I wanted to discuss it more over here. 

If Ryan's triggers are his mom crying and Bentley, then those are his triggers to deal with. For example say I'm an addict, and my trigger is my daughter feeling disappointed in me. That is a valid trigger for me. Does that mean my daughter should not feel that way or express those feelings to me? No, it means in the past my daughter expressed to me how disappointed she was in me and instead of dealing with that and trying to change so she could feel proud instead of disspointed, I went and got high to numb how I was feeling. I used the drugs so I didn't have to feel those terrible emotions of being a bad mother. Once I figured out my triggers, I could then deal with the issue at hand instead of running away and getting high. So I could acknowledge my daughter's pain and make the changes necessary to be a person she could be proud of instead of disappointed in. 

It's the same with Ryan and Jen. Jen crying is a trigger for Ryan to go get high. So should Jen hold back her tears and never feel any negative emotions or express them because they trigger Ryan? No. Ryan needs to confront this trigger head on. Why does your mom crying make you want to get high Ryan? Is it because you love your mom and you can't face the fact you are hurting her and disappointing her? What can you do to stop causing her hurt and pain? See those are the kind of questions Ryan's triggers need to evoke. He needs to think about this in therapy so he can change his life. What makes me angry is Larry took this as Jen's crying caused Ryan to use so this is all her fault, and she better stop this weak crying bullshit in front of Ryan. Larry completely misssed the whole point. 

Same thing with Bentley. If Bentley is a trigger for Ryan, then he needs to figure out why. Maybe he can't face the fact that he has not been a good father to Bentley. He also may not want to prove Maci right by acknowledging it. I mean who would want to have Maci on the other side gloating over your vulnerability? But again, these are Ryan's issues to face not theirs. I guess Maci could take into account how hard this might be for Ryan to admit she was right and be more understanding but again, she doesn't have to do anything. This is all on Ryan. Those around him that love him can only support him and show him tough love if needed. 

A gazillion times YES!

I wholeheartedly agreed with everything you’ve said. A lot of what you mentioned enticed some “ah ha” moments for me, too.

I also feel bad for Jen. I know she enabled him but I just see a woman that keeps getting stuck in the middle of drama when all she wants is for everyone to get along and enjoy her time with Bentley. 

I can see it in her eyes when Ryan’s rambling on re: “could you imagine if you gave me chores, mom!” That she wishes she could have a do-over and be more strict with Ryan and gave him more responsibilities as a child to prepare for adulthood. 

I think a lot of her tears are stemming from “I failed as a parent” and loud mouth Larry is quick to support that claim. Larry is at fault, too! His tough love combined with Jens overwhelming need to make her only son happy created the Ryan we see now. It’s a good lesson for mothers or fathers that try to compensate for the faults of another parent.

[ginger90]

Larry has used “the truth will come out” and on Twitter Michael has said the same, adding “stay tuned”. 

[CofCinci]

12 hours ago, Emmierose said:

I am thinking the wrap around Amber's head has to do with the editing.  When she got out of the car at Gary and Kristina's she seemed to kind of be chuckling about something, maybe the head wrap?  It seems to me that Amber is growing out that horrible bleached blond hair (hence the dark regrowth) and the wrap is to cover it up so that we don't know when it was exactly that visit to Gary's took place.   Remember in Teen Mom 2 when Chelsea was wearing a towel on her head and occasionally a wig to cover up the dyed hair so they could re-enact certain things?  I'm thinking the Ethel Mertz hair wrap is the same thing. 

You’re right. I’m so tired of this fake show. 

[lezlers]

21 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I wondered how much they spent on those boxes and packaging and how much it cut into their profit margin.  Website, materials, manufacturing, advertising, postage, personalized boxes and tissue paper, ribbon and WTF ever else?!

I could see that packaging being close to $5 a shipment, not including labor. 

I was wondering the same thing!  I mean, the price of their merchandise is a little up there but after you factor in the fancy packaging, the cost of materials and labor for the seamstresses plus whoever is doing their website (you know Tyler's not doing it himself) I can't imagine their profit margin is very high.  Certainly not high enough to justify the mogul status they're trying to pretend they've reached.

21 hours ago, Tatum said:

I get this, I really do, and I would not wish this on anyone.

 

But the Edwards family is not taking this seriously. They aren't looking into Al-Anon (that we know of), they aren't talking family therapy, and they're pointing fingers at who is to blame instead of looking at how they, as a family, are going to manage this issue. They seem far more concerned with their public image and being angry over perceived slights from Maci.

Exactly.  The more time they spend deflecting and worrying about their public image, the less time they're spending actually accepting that their son is an addict and learning the tools they need to help him in his recovery.

[lezlers]

14 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Going back to a point someone brought up about Maci withholding Bentley from the grandparents. When Larry revealed they had known for a long time about Ryan's drug issues, I was hoping he would say how long they knew. I would like for someone to ask them if they ever told Maci when they became aware of Ryan's drug issue or for Maci to reveal how the Edwards knew for a certain amount of time before she was informed. I imagine Maci would be extremely upset to know the Edwards knew Ryan was an addict and did not inform her immediately. That would certainly factor into withholding Bentley from his grandparents since they weren't honest with her about information that she would have a right to know. Not much has been said about that. I assume editing is the reason unless I missed some information on that matter.

I totally agree.  As it's been said during the episodes, Maci hardly ever saw Ryan during Bentley's visits.  He was never there at drop off or pick-up.  Many weekends would go by where Ryan didn't even see Bentley during the visits.  I'm sure the Edwards participated in covering up Ryan's addiction for fear of losing time with Bentley.  That might have something to do with why Maci isn't keen on dropping him off 5 minutes after Ryan ditched out of rehab early.  I'm sure Larry getting into it with Taylor at Bentley's game didn't help either.  Larry REALLY isn't acting like someone who cares more about seeing his grandchild than his own ego.   I also think at that point when Ryan was fresh out of rehab, Maci was trying to establish boundaries with the Edwards with respect to what she was going to allow until she had a better idea of what kind of shape Ryan was in, especially now that Mac was driving the train and was likely going to want to take Bentley from the Edwards' to their own house. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by lezlers

[druzy]

On 12/15/2017 at 6:29 AM, Jeanne222 said:

Does anybody happen to know what Larry's real job is?

Lawrence Edwards, Coca Cola Bottling Company. He is pictured second to the left in the red shirt.

[DangerousMinds]

Alcohol may be legal, but is just as harmful (if not more than) many "illegal" substances.  Maci still has a serious problem, IMO.

[lezlers]

43 minutes ago, DangerousMinds said:

Alcohol may be legal, but is just as harmful (if not more than) many "illegal" substances.  Maci still has a serious problem, IMO.

I don't disagree at all.  I've gone on more rants about the hypocrisy regarding marijuana vs. alcohol laws more times than I can court.  My point was, Maci wouldn't be scared of a drug test because as far as we know, she doesn't partake in any illegal substances.  

[Jeanne222]

6 hours ago, druzy said:

Lawrence Edwards, Coca Cola Bottling Company. He is pictured second to the left in the red shirt.

He works for Coke.  I wonder what he does there?

[Jeanne222]

Honestly I suspect Ryan cares for nobody.  He's an asshole that finds excuses for everything he does.

He is surrounded by lots of good people with their hands tied behind their back.  He blames them for everything wrong in his life

He wants only to use and be left alone

 

21 days in a rehab clinic will not make him whole again.  Maybe a year or two?  

[GreatKazu]

4 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

Alcohol may be legal, but is just as harmful (if not more than) many "illegal" substances.  Maci still has a serious problem, IMO.

Thank you.  

To ingest alcohol during a pregnancy, knowing she was pregnant, shows there is a problem. And don't forget, she is also a smoker. You know she didn't stop her intake of cigarettes if she didn't bother to stop ingesting alcohol. Let's throw in her texting while driving as well. Those three alone are a major problem. Or they would at least be considered a problem if it was someone else doing it.  

Maci needs to look at herself. Hypocrisy is not a good look. 

[Jeanne222]

23 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

I am with @Tatum. I don't think the Edwards are attending any sort of meetings. My feeling is they are likely not ready to commit. Maybe they reluctantly went to a meeting at least once and found they are not ready to deal with what it entails to actually be supportive without the enabling. Whatever the case may be, there is nothing wrong with speculating and the Edwards give so much for us to speculate on. 

Ryan would have to want to the help in the first place. I think Ryan reluctantly entered rehab both times. 

I don't think they are getting any help or assistance with their sons drug problem because they don't think THEY need it.I

 

Enablers do not accept the enable title!

 

My dear friend enables her alcoholic son.  Years ago when he was hitting bottom I talked her into seeing a therapist.  At the first appointment the therapist said enabling and my friend got up and left the office never to return again.

 

After years as an alcoholic son my friend went to Florida for the winter months and her daughter moved in with some tough love.  The alcoholic son stopped drinking got a job and was sober for a year.

 

Back came the mom who decided the work was beneath him and back in her basement he went and lives.  It's the very saddest thing ever.

 

She and I never speak of it again.  If we did there would be no friendship.

Enablers accept no responsibility for their enabling.  They are simply helping the boy and that is why you will never see Jen and Larry in therapy.

[snarts]

Quote

Hearing Larry mention how Ryan is their only child, even though we already knew that fact about them, there  was something about the way he said it, I can't put it into words. Did anyone else get something from that comment?

Yes.  The way he said it to me came across like Maci has other children to worry about, so why is she so focused on Bentley.

We really have no idea how much Maci drinks.  If you knew me only through social media, you'd think I was a raging alcoholic who's always on vacation, because that's the only times I tend to post.  Jumping to the assumption that she's an alcoholic and just as bad as Ryan seems really unfair.  It feeds into the whole mom shaming movement, everything to what they feed their kids, to how tight they make the car seat straps.  It's ridiculous to me how judgy people are when it comes to moms.  Meanwhile, the men are applauded for simply showing up. 

[GreatKazu]

Eh, I never got the sense anyone applauded any of the guys. Guys don't get a cookie for merely being there. And the moms leave a lot to speculation. Then, there are their actions which have been caught on camera, which speak volumes. In fact, the women get more screen time so no doubt they are heavily scrutinized. They are also the ones who are on the Nessa after-show specials. They are the ones spending a lot more time on social media, feeding into the frenzy, their constant need to be up front and center while spilling out their personal information on a weekly basis. 

Teen Moms, spare me.