S03.E09: Reign

[Jediknight]

10 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Nice Christmas party. Would not have thought of J'onn being a dork. Or bonding with Winn. Very cute.

Of course Space Dad is going to bond with his Earth son.  I love that Winn calls him Papa Bear, and J'onn is cool with it.  We better find out in a future episode that Winn and J'onn sat J'onn's father down and watched every Star Wars movie.

Reign vs Supergirl was the 2nd most brutal fight in the history of the Arrowverse.  Sorry, Barry vs Zoom is still number one.  Zoom broke his back, and was going to kill him till Harry showed up.  That gives it the edge over Kara vs Reign.

Really Supergirl, you play Christmas songs, and you don't play "Christmas (Baby Please Come Home)" by Darlene Love?  Make your free throws.

Edited December 5, 2017 by Jediknight

[tofutan]

I don't believe the story about them showing up from the future by accident either. And what is this big evil in their time that they were referring to? 

All I hope that this doesn't turn into a story where Imra dies to Mon-El can learn a life lesson. Even all the mind control speculation would be preferable to that (not that I think that that is too likely). 

Edited December 5, 2017 by tofutan

[Featherhat]

27 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I don't believe the story about them showing up from the future by accident either. And what is this big evil in their time that they were referring to? 

I don't either, that's very suspicious but probably not nefarious (so far).

I liked the episode, I though the transformation into Reign was quick but she was fine here and it's MSF tradition for the heroes to get the crap kicked out of them so no surprise there. I loved the surreal nature of that brutal fight set to Christmas music.

Too much Ruby and too many anvils of Ruby and Alex, sigh. 

Imra was ok, as Kara said so far there's nothing to dislike about her (so far, that may change or be a fake out I suppose) and I liked that Kara whilst heart broken said they were all trying to deal with it as adults. Mon-El was the one who shouldn't have kept pushing it but give Kara some space to come to terms with it, and maybe not take his wife to all the places he and his ex loved. 

Loved Jonn and his father once again!

[tofutan]

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Mon-El was the one who shouldn't have kept pushing it but give Kara some space to come to terms with it, and maybe not take his wife to all the places he and his ex loved. 

That was so weird! Like this story about the ribs, that never happened on screen in season 2. They literally told us 1 episode ago (not counting the crossover as a proper story) and Mon-El was the one who brought up the story. So he tells the story and his first idea is, I should take Imra there too? I don't even know whether that is supposed to be insulting of Mon-El and Kara or Mon-El and Imra, but it's just ... weird. Like what do the writers aim to accomplish with this? I mean other than giving Melissa Benoist the chance to act very sad. 

[ottoDbusdriver]

2 hours ago, Iceman91 said:

So if you believe what Mon El and Imra said in this episode, he landed in the future by accident after going through a wormhole, they landed in the past by accident after going through another wormhole (totally normal) then woke up in the present just at the same time than Reign by accident again. It's a lot lot of coincidences so either they're lying or I've overestimated the writers and they are really lazy, I want to believe that there is more to Mon-El and LOSH than just creating more angst for Kara. Also, Imra was all smiling at the end so she has to know something

I'm going with lazy writers.

The ship arrived through the wormhole 12000 years ago, and Mon-el set the alarm so that they would wake up in the 31st century, but 'the torpedo' woke him up.  Sorry, but that torpedo was just not that powerful, and how convenient that it just woke him up.  What happened to the rest of the people in the ship ? So far we have only seen Mon-El and Imra.

1 hour ago, cambridgeguy said:

I've gotta say, if Reign really did want to kill Supergirl then why drop her off a building and take off when she could have just pounded her into paste? 

That seemed like an odd decision by Reign --  after severely beating Supergirl, let gravity finish her off. 

1 minute ago, tofutan said:

I don't believe the story about them showing up from the future by accident either. And what is this big evil in their time that they were referring to? 

Mon-El/Imra did kind of gloss over 'The Darkness' that they brought up.

Imra's comment was odd about people using their hands to eat.  In the future do robots cut their food for them and feed them ?  Food is only in pill format ?  Do they just absorb their sustenance from the air ?

[Lady Calypso]

On 05/12/2017 at 10:06 AM, ottoDbusdriver said:

The ship arrived through the wormhole 12000 years ago, and Mon-el set the alarm so that they would wake up in the 31st century, but 'the torpedo' woke him up.  Sorry, but that torpedo was just not that powerful, and how convenient that it just woke him up.  What happened to the rest of the people in the ship ? So far we have only seen Mon-El and Imra.

Honestly, the only thought I would have to explain away the sheer laziness of the writing is that Mon-El deliberately set his particular pod to wake him up in 2017, in order to be in the same time as Kara. However, this doesn't even make that much sense as Mon-El genuinely seems to love Imra. 

I really don't get what they're going for with this love triangle. They keep making Mon-El looking like the douchiest douche that has ever douched. He's either playing both women or he's deliberately hurting Kara's feelings. Like, who in their right frame of mind would make out and be intimiate with their wife in front of their girlfriend who they know is hurting and has had less time to move on from what happened? Is Mon-El really that stupid that he thinks what he's doing is ok? He had seven years to move on, but Kara didn't, AND she thought it was her fault that he might have died! Then, he comes back with a wife, but pretends up until that reveal that he wants to work things out with her. He basically broke her heart and then has continued to stomp on it. But yeah, sure, they're ALL handling it like adults.

I can only hope Imra isn't going to have some malicious intents this season and make her to be the bad guy. I'd be perfectly happy with her knowing about Kara and genuinely being nice to her. I'd kind of love if both women realized that they deserve better than Mon-El and move on from him. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Lady Calypso
because i just noticed that is vs isn't changes a whole meaning

[iMonrey]

The whole time Supergirl was fighting Reign, all I kept thinking was "pull off her mask so you can see who she is." Somehow that never happens in superhero fights.

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So, we just gonna...not mention how Alex and Kara went to another universe and were almost murdered by Nazis a few days ago?

At least the show is acknowledging that not all of us watch all four shows and wouldn't have been able to follow the cross-over event, so it's been treated as a stand-alone story that doesn't impact the Supergirl show in any meaningful way. That's pretty much how it needs to be for me.

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I think Ruby's creation was threefold. A way to explain Reign's delay in emerging, giving Alex a kid, and the ultimate defeat of Reign when Sam emerges and sacrifices herself to save her daughter 

Good God, please don't let her become Alex's kid. Whoever's writing her dialogue and directing her seems to think she's five. But I agree she'll ultimately be the downfall of Reign somehow - either in the way you describe or else she'll turn out to have powers of her own.

[GHScorpiosRule]

Man, that fight was BRUTAL. They didn't have nearly the good CGI back then, but this is the kind of beatdown fight I wanted to see between Clark and Doomsday on Smallville. And whaddya know? Smallville Alumni Glenn Winter directed this.

The way they kept saying "darkness," I got shades, again of Smallville's final season, using the same phrase to describe Darkseid, who was an absolute UTTER FAIL.

I know I'm just being nitpicky here, but if people in the 31st century no longer use their hands or fingers to eat, what do they use? And does this mean they don't have finger food, fries, burgers, sandwiches? Or do they just use their mouths like animals?

[tofutan]

35 minutes ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

The ship arrived through the wormhole 12000 years ago, and Mon-el set the alarm so that they would wake up in the 31st century, but 'the torpedo' woke him up.  Sorry, but that torpedo was just not that powerful, and how convenient that it just woke him up. 

But that isn't what it was like on the show. The torpedos happened in the premiere. The person in the pod, presumably Mon-El wasn't shown to be moving till episode 4, where Chad Lowe detonated the Kryptonian probe. Continuity error? Or there being more to the story than Mon-El and Imra admit? There's also Imras kind of weird acting at the end of this episode about being sure that Kara will be fine. Bad acting or a hint of something sketchy? 

[Lady Calypso]

3 minutes ago, tofutan said:

But that isn't what it was like on the show. The torpedos happened in the premiere. The person in the pod, presumably Mon-El wasn't shown to be moving till episode 4, where Chad Lowe detonated the Kryptonian probe. Continuity error? Or there being more to the story than Mon-El and Imra admit? There's also Imras kind of weird acting at the end of this episode about being sure that Kara will be fine. Bad acting or a hint of something sketchy? 

What I think happened is bad writing. I think it was the combination of the torpedos from the premiere along with the explosion from the Kryptonian pod thing in the Lowe episode that woke him up. However, I think that there's a chance that Mon-El intentionally set his own pod to wake up in 2017, and that he's lying about being jolted awake. I only say that because they're determined to make Mon-El seem like the most romantic guy ever but he keeps doing the douchiest and most selfish things ever, and that would be on par for some "twist" later on. 

I'm going to hope that this isn't the case and the whole "waking up in 2017" excuse was just a result of bad writing.

[Iceman91]

1 hour ago, tofutan said:

I don't believe the story about them showing up from the future by accident either. And what is this big evil in their time that they were referring to? 

All I hope that this doesn't turn into a story where Imra dies to Mon-El can learn a life lesson. Even all the mind control speculation would be preferable to that (not that I think that that is too likely). 

Reign also talked about the darkness or was it coville ?  So I think there's a connection between the future timeline and the present  but it's not clear for the moment 

 

I will try to defend Mon El he didn't know that Kara would show up at the bar or that she would see him training. And he tried to talk with Kara so he's trying to make the situation better but he needs to accept that she needs time and space for the moment 

As for the ribs it was dumb and just the writers trying to make Kara the more miserable possible because it's the theme of this season 

[Writing Wrongs]

2 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

As long as Benoist and Wood are dating in real life I can't imagine Mon-El being shipped off for good. 

Wait, what? I thought she was married?

[JapMo]

43 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Good God, please don't let her become Alex's kid. Whoever's writing her dialogue and directing her seems to think she's five. But I agree she'll ultimately be the downfall of Reign somehow - either in the way you describe or else she'll turn out to have powers of her own.

No...she'll ultimately be the downfall of Alex.  What a dumb idea to saddle Alex with this kid in particular.  Oh, I can see it now..the writers will show Alex INSTANTLY in love with Ruby and going through all the drama every parent does....Ruby has a fever and Alex is overcome with worry not to mention every other character at the DEO because they, too, are INSTANTLY in love with the brat.  Alex the proud parent boring everyone with Ruby's accomplishments.  Alex freaking out when Ruby doesn't get home from school on time.  Alex crying on Kara's shoulder that Ruby just hasn't warmed up to her, no matter how hard she's tried, and Kara patting her head and saying 'you're a great Mom' blah blah blah.  Can't wait (eyeroll).

[tofutan]

1 minute ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Wait, what? I thought she was married?

She got divorced a year or so ago. 

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No...she'll ultimately be the downfall of Alex.  What a dumb idea to saddle Alex with this kid in particular

Well if i has to be kid, Ruby seems to be better than most, because the actress is decent and as Reign's daughter maybe they worry that she will develop superpowers and go evil as she goes older and of course she will have angst over her mother having been evil. 

I too am disappointed that that this appears to be Alex main story for the season. 

I still think the show should have had the guts to create some sort of deeper central conflict between Kara and Alex, like Kara wanting more space or Alex becoming boss of the DEO or Alex hiding some sort of big secret from Kara again. Or have the reason for the Alex and Maggie breakup be Maggie accusing Alex of always putting Kara first. People are so in love with Kara and Alex being supportive sisters, but it's pretty clear that there is much less story there than if the show actually went for conflict. That would more easily sustain them through a longer story arc. 

Alex being around just to give Kara peptalks and worry about her is just ... empty. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by tofutan

[JapMo]

5 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I still think the show should have had the guts to create some sort of deeper central conflict between Kara and Alex, like Kara wanting more space or Alex becoming boss of the DEO or Alex hiding some sort of big secret from Kara again. Or have the reason for the Alex and Maggie breakup be Maggie accusing Alex of always putting Kara first. People are so in love with Kara and Alex being supportive sisters, but it's pretty clear that there is much less story there than if the show actually went for conflict. That would more easily sustain them through a longer story arc. 

Alex being around just to give Kara peptalks and worry about her is just ... empty. 

I never thought of it that way but I have to say, I'm getting bored with the sisters-joined-at-the-hip crap.  Enough already.  The writers have gone overboard with the complaints about the lack of sisterly bonding from last season (I never saw it).  

[Lady Calypso]

16 minutes ago, Iceman91 said:

I will try to defend Mon El he didn't know that Kara would show up at the bar or that she would see him training. And he tried to talk with Kara so he's trying to make the situation better but he needs to accept that she needs time and space for the moment 

I wish I could buy this, but Mon-El knows that Kara frequents the bar, and he knows that she's also in the DEO a lot. He knows there's a chance of running into her, so maybe tone down on the PDA for a few weeks while Kara adjusts. It's not all about Mon-El. Plus, this is the guy who also made out with Imra in front of Kara before introducing her as his wife, so he hasn't really displayed any consistency with his behaviour. 

 

16 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I still think the show should have had the guts to create some sort of deeper central conflict between Kara and Alex, like Kara wanting more space or Alex becoming boss of the DEO or Alex hiding some sort of big secret from Kara again. Or have the reason for the Alex and Maggie breakup be Maggie accusing Alex of always putting Kara first. People are so in love with Kara and Alex being supportive sisters, but it's pretty clear that there is much less story there than if the show actually went for conflict. That would more easily sustain them through a longer story arc. 

Alex being around just to give Kara peptalks and worry about her is just ... empty. 

I think some sort of deeper conflict would work, and I'd like it more than Alex The Mommy storyline that they seem to be heading in. I mean, I don't necessarily want the typical Big Secret storyline that shows default to, but maybe a DEO-related issue would be great. I do like them as supportive sisters, though. It's just that they also need to show more conflict, as I think siblings tend to have more conflicts. In my experience with a sister, we have conflicts often but we also support each other. 

12 minutes ago, JapMo said:

I never thought of it that way but I have to say, I'm getting bored with the sisters-joined-at-the-hip crap.  Enough already.  The writers have gone overboard with the complaints about the lack of sisterly bonding from last season (I never saw it).  

I don't think they've gone overboard. The sister scenes this season are roughly the same as the first season. It's not overwhelming episodes. I mean, I personally felt overwhelmed by Mon-El/Kara last season because 90% of Kara's scenes were with him or about him. The other 10% was her fight scenes. At least Kara isn't overwhelmed by just scenes with Alex. She shares scenes with her, but it's not all of her scenes. Though I do think they also need to remember that Kara's best friend is also Winn. 

[tofutan]

You know somebody did the actual math on that and actually Mon-El was only in 32% of Kara's screentime in season 2. Alex was in 27% of Kara's screentime. And in season 1 she was in 25% of Kara's screentime. So actually, percentagewise Kara and Alex had more screentime together in season 2 than in season 1...  I have no problem with people disliking Mon-El, but a lot of the things claimed about him are just not true. 

Kara acting like her friendships with Winn and James exist, while talking to a character she barely interacted with was just terrible writing. When she praised Sam and Lena for helping her through a rough year, all I could think of was: when? When is Sam supposed to have done that? They have barely every talked, let alone about personal things. And in the premiere they explicitly said that Kara DIDN'T talk to Lena about the Mon-El situation in the time the show was off screen. I know people want female friends for Kara, but the writing is just so fake here. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by tofutan

[Oreo2234]

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I don't think they've gone overboard. The sister scenes this season are roughly the same as the first season...She shares scenes with her but its not all her scenes.

I agree. I think they've found a nice balance . I do think some conflict in their relationship would be great and there has been conflict there in the past. A storyline surrounding that could be good. Almost anything would be better than her being stuck with Ruby. She could actually go out and investigate cases like she used to do more often, maybe a subplot with her and Winn investigating something. He needs more to do.

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Alex was in 27% of Kara's screentime. And in season 1 she was in 25% of Kara's screentime. So actually, percentagewise Kara and Alex had more screentime together in season 2 than in season 1.

I think a lot of that was Alex spouting exposition though. They seemed to have less meaningful interaction. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Oreo2234

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, tofutan said:

You know somebody did the actual math on that and actually Mon-El was only in 32% of Kara's screentime in season 2. Alex was in 27% of Kara's screentime. And in season 1 she was in 25% of Kara's screentime. So actually, percentagewise Kara and Alex had more screentime together in season 2 than in season 1...  I have no problem with people disliking Mon-El, but a lot of the things claimed about him are just not true. 

I think it doesn't just have to do with what scenes they shared together, but how much Kara also talked about him even when he wasn't there. The context in the Kara/Alex scenes were about their love interests. Sure, they also had that in season 1, but they also had scenes that were more than that, which is important. So Mon-El/Kara may have only shared 32% of Kara's scenes together, but how about the percentage of Kara's screentime that happened to be talking about Mon-El? Factor that in, and the percentage rises quite a bit (sadly, I'm not good at math so it would take me a while to calculate that). 

I think that's what people are focusing on; it's not just about how much screentime Kara shared with Mon-El, but how much she talked about him overall. It also diminished Kara's screentime with James and Winn by a LOT. 

This season has showed a much more even balance, especially since Mon-El missed seven episodes. But even with this episode, they found a balance because Kara only dealt with Mon-El when she shared screentime with him. Otherwise, her focus was on Reign and her friends and family, which has shown a vast improvement over season 2's Kara. 

[Dobian]

The fight in the office while Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree was playing was probably the coolest thing I've seen on this show.

[tofutan]

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. It also diminished Kara's screentime with James and Winn by a LOT. This season has showed a much more even balance, especially since Mon-El missed seven episodes. 

I really, really disagree. Mon-El was gone and James and Winn still had terrible to non-existing storylines. Kara "forgetting" Winn and James over her supposed new "friendship" with Sam and Lena being the perfect example of it. At least last season James and Winn had a storyline, this season Winn ONLY does exposition dumping. They could have used this time productively to instead have James and Kara talk about his growing interest in Lena instead of trying to force a quickie friendship on Sam and Kara that is not believable in the slightest. Why do they have to be best friends? Why can't they just be friendly and polite acquaintances.It's just bad writing. Kara could still be shocked that this person who she only knew as nice is a badguy and she could still be really saddened by it just on account of knowing that Sam has a daughter she dearly loves. 

And I'm not saying now is much better, I think this whole Legion stuff is handled badly too. I think they should try to build this up as a mystery. Us sitting around wondering why Mon-El is acting so weird is not compelling writing. If there is some more to it, tip your hand to the audience while the characters are clueless. If there's no twist to it, then why are the scenes held so emotion free? This is unappealing to the shippers and unappealing to the non-shippers because Mon-El is still getting "relationship" screentime. 

Why isn't the DEO actively trying to find out about the other people in the pod? Why aren't Imra and Mon-El more active in trying to be helpful in the whole Reign mystery? Rather than us watching him canoodle with a wife we don't care about and who doesn't even have "omg, I loved them together in the comics" going for her. Kara could still be working with them proactively and then be saddened all of a sudden when she sees them, rather than those overwrought staged moments that are only about relationships and don't do anything to drive the plot forward and deepen the mystery. 

I think the writers are really borking up this season and imo a huge part of it is that they are mishandling the Reign story. Telling rather than showing us that Kara and Sam are friends. Having Sam be a villain without any inner drive or agency, she doesn't even want to be evil. And even the Sam part of it, so she has blackouts but rather than that being used to show her scared and trying to investigate what is happening, she just ignores it? This is not normal relatable behavior. 

[kdm07]

- So...Kara & Alex are just going to act like the crossover never happened?

- Writers: putting two people together as a romantic pair is not how you handle not knowing what to do with a character. You first figure out a plausible storyline for that character (the Guardian nonsense was just that, nonsense) then you match them up. James and Lena have been slapped together without much thought and it shows.

- Maybe Winn should date Reign now so that the writers can skip actually developing him as a character or having him interact with others. Same thing could apply for J'onn but I think we're out of female main characters for him to pair up with.

- Ruby...should've never showed up.

- Do not care for Mon-El nor do I care for where is story is going.

- I had some interest in Reign and the fight was cool but everything about her is being fast-tracked.

This is where I bid Supergirl goodbye. I hope that the writing improves next year for those of you still watching but I've reached the end of my patience with this show.

Edited December 5, 2017 by kdm07

[Lady Calypso]

13 minutes ago, tofutan said:

I really, really disagree. Mon-El was gone and James and Winn still had terrible to non-existing storylines. Kara "forgetting" Winn and James over her supposed new "friendship" with Sam and Lena being the perfect example of it. At least last season James and Winn had a storyline, this season Winn ONLY does exposition dumping. They could have used this time productively to instead have James and Kara talk about his growing interest in Lena instead of trying to force a quickie friendship on Sam and Kara that is not believable in the slightest. Why do they have to be best friends? Why can't they just be friendly and polite acquaintances.It's just bad writing. Kara could still be shocked that this person who she only knew as nice is a badguy and she could still be really saddened by it just on account of knowing that Sam has a daughter she dearly loves. 

I get what you're saying here, I do. Winn's had no storyline this season, which sucks. But James has interacted with Kara more times than last season. He never got to prop up Kara as Supergirl last season. If they did talk, it was whining about how he wanted to be a hero like Supergirl or Superman. James also is with Catco and Lena more, which does allow him for more screentime than last season. And trust me, I have a serious problem with Kara not counting Winn or James as her best friends. They're starting to make similar mistakes with Sam and Lena like they did with Mon-El last season, in which Kara conveniently forgets what happened in season 1 in favour of new, shiny characters. I would love more James/Kara scenes this season, but I do acknowledge that it is still better than last season, when they pretended that Kara/James were friends underneath their failed chemistry. Season 2, if they shared scenes, had them fighting about something constantly, except for that one scene where they had a games night. This season, at least they're talking multiple times. Again, an improvement over season 2, though not necessarily an improvement over season 1. James' Guardian storyline last season was about Winn, from what I saw. Winn basically got a better storyline last season. 

I don't buy Sam/Kara being best friends. They don't interact outside of Lena. It's also bull that Lena and Sam got her through the rough part of her year when it was really Alex, J'onn, and a little of Winn and James. Kara never really talked to Lena about Mon-El; besides, even if she did, she couldn't tell her everything because Lena's still in the dark about Supergirl. 

James' story this season is better than last season, but I'm not saying it's better period. I still wish he had more to do and I wish their solution wasn't throwing him at Lena in hopes that they'll have chemistry and make up for how little James did last season. I would be fully invested in James/Lena as business partners, rather than a romantic couple.  Same with Winn, who did get more to do last season, but he's had more interactions with Kara this season compared to last. Not that it's saying much because they seem to forget that Winn isn't just there for exposition. At least he's gotten to chat with Kara this season, and he got to protect her to Mon-El when he came back in episode 7. I am still pissed at what they've done with Winn this season, which is absolutely nothing. At least last season, he shared scenes with James whenever James was in an episode! This season, he doesn't even have that! 

22 minutes ago, tofutan said:

And I'm not saying now is much better, I think this whole Legion stuff is handled badly too. I think they should try to build this up as a mystery. Us sitting around wondering why Mon-El is acting so weird is not compelling writing. If there is some more to it, tip your hand to the audience while the characters are clueless. If there's no twist to it, then why are the scenes held so emotion free? This is unappealing to the shippers and unappealing to the non-shippers because Mon-El is still getting "relationship" screentime. 

This, I agree with, though I literally don't care about Mon-El at all, so the less screentime he gets is not a detriment for me. I do think the issue is that they not only introduced Reign, but the Legion stuff at the same time, so one is going to take precedent over the other in their introduction episodes. Unfortunately for Legion fans, that part is getting pushed into the new year. They really should have waited to bring back Mon-El and Saturn Girl. 

[JapMo]

15 minutes ago, kdm07 said:

- So...Kara & Alex are just going to act like the crossover never happened?

- Writers: putting two people together as a romantic pair is not how you handle not knowing what to do with a character. You first figure out a plausible storyline for that character (the Guardian nonsense was just that, nonsense) then you match them up. James and Lena have been slapped together without much thought and it shows.

- Maybe Winn should date Reign now so that the writers can skip actually developing him as a character or having him interact with others. Same thing could apply for J'onn but I think we're out of female main characters for him to pair up with.

- Ruby...should've never showed up.

- Do not care for Mon-El nor do I care for where is story is going.

- I had some interest in Reign and the fight was cool but everything about her is being fast-tracked.

This is where I bid Supergirl goodbye. I hope that the writing improves next year for those of you still watching but I've reached the end of my patience with this show.

I'm about there, too, KDM.  To me the episodes have been choppy, badly paced, and very poorly written.  IMO, the CW put their C-team writers on Supergirl.  The better writing (and yeah, I know it's writing for comic book heroes, but still) is with Arrow and The Flash.  

[tofutan]

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But James has interacted with Kara more times than last season. He never got to prop up Kara as Supergirl last season. If they did talk, it was whining about how he wanted to be a hero like Supergirl or Superman. 

But as you admit yourself, he DID have screentime. And why is it actually a good thing that he wasn't propping Kara, but instead he was talking about his own problems? Most fans of a character want them to get a storyline of their own rather than propping other characters. 

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James also is with Catco and Lena more, which does allow him for more screentime than last season. 

I really, really, really doubt that James had more screentime this season than he had last season during Guardian. Just because it's not the kind of screentime you enjoy doesn't mean that it's not screentime. And the treatment of James at CatCo has been awful. He wasn't allowed to talk to anybody about his supposed feelings for Lena. They gave him scenes with no follow up, like him reacting to Lena buying CatCo. 

IMO it's very telling that the writers still have zero interest in James at CatCo based on the fact that they started off the romance with Lena NOT by let's say them bonding over uncovering a cool lead on a story or by maybe her admiring one of his photographs. Instead it's him pulling out the Guardian again this season. It's pretty clear that the writers still consider James at CatCo useless because when they try to raise his prestige to be able to date Lena they reach back to Guardian rather than having them bond over CatCo related stuff. Because to them action!James has value while CatCo!James doesn't. 

I think the writers never really cared about CatCo or journalism. They just liked Cat. THE season where CatCo was actually important Kara wasn't actually a journalist. Even Kara doesn't actually care about journalism, she spent a season at CatCo as an assisstent and then Cat had to force her to pick a real job and even then Kara didn't know what to actually pick. And of course all the times where she quits it or gets fired. 

The show never cared about journalism and hence Kara doesn't actually care about journalism and hence doesn't actually care about CatCo. 

IMO what they should have done this season is introduce another female mentor character. Not one who is just like Cat to replace her. But just somebody to serve a comparable role while being very different in personality. 

[JapMo]

10 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

This, I agree with, though I literally don't care about Mon-El at all, so the less screentime he gets is not a detriment for me. I do think the issue is that they not only introduced Reign, but the Legion stuff at the same time, so one is going to take precedent over the other in their introduction episodes. Unfortunately for Legion fans, that part is getting pushed into the new year. They really should have waited to bring back Mon-El and Saturn Girl. 

Well, I have long felt they should have got them involved beginning with the first episode.  Something like the last 5 minutes or so, we...the audience...see what happened to Mon-El.  See the various members of the Legion and hear them talk about how they need to come back and save Kara from Reign, and watch how it plots out.  And through the course of 7 episodes, even if it's just 5 minutes, you let the audience in on the fact Reign is a bad bad person and Kara can't handle her alone.  Instead, the writers decided to bring Reign in as Sam, and begin the long arc of changing her from good to bad, which if they had done it properly she shouldn't be anywhere near that yet.  But since the writers haven't done a good job of pacing, you see a part of the last episode and most of Mondays where everything is dumped in at once..  Now they've got the Legion and Mon-El back, and they're again wasting time with BS instead of pacing the story out properly.    

[Lady Calypso]

12 minutes ago, tofutan said:

But as you admit yourself, he DID have screentime. And why is it actually a good thing that he wasn't propping Kara, but instead he was talking about his own problems? Most fans of a character want them to get a storyline of their own rather than propping other characters. 

I really, really, really doubt that James had more screentime this season than he had last season during Guardian. Just because it's not the kind of screentime you enjoy doesn't mean that it's not screentime. And the treatment of James at CatCo has been awful. He wasn't allowed to talk to anybody about his supposed feelings for Lena. They gave him scenes with no follow up, like him reacting to Lena buying CatCo. 

IMO it's very telling that the writers still have zero interest in James at CatCo based on the fact that they started off the romance with Lena NOT by let's say them bonding over uncovering a cool lead on a story or by maybe her admiring one of his photographs. Instead it's him pulling out the Guardian again this season. It's pretty clear that the writers still consider James at CatCo useless because when they try to raise his prestige to be able to date Lena they reach back to Guardian rather than having them bond over CatCo related stuff. Because to them action!James has value while CatCo!James doesn't. 

I think the writers never really cared about CatCo or journalism. They just liked Cat. THE season where CatCo was actually important Kara wasn't actually a journalist. Even Kara doesn't actually care about journalism, she spent a season at CatCo as an assisstent and then Cat had to force her to pick a real job and even then Kara didn't know what to actually pick. And of course all the times where she quits it or gets fired. 

The show never cared about journalism and hence Kara doesn't actually care about journalism and hence doesn't actually care about CatCo. 

IMO what they should have done this season is introduce another female mentor character. Not one who is just like Cat to replace her. But just somebody to serve a comparable role while being very different in personality. 

I'm going to take this to the relationship thread, because I want to discuss it more but it's veering off of the episode topic.

[Bats27]

-The fight between SG and Reign was cool.

-Still not a fan of Reign's current look.  At least give her the pale skin/red hair.

-The "best friends" line, which I interpreted to mean FEMALE friends, was still pretty forced (as is Sam's inclusion).  Well the second one isn't so much "forced" per se as it is "rushed."  I could buy it, but they simply haven't spent enough time including her in things for it to be believable right now.  But the writers often "forget" about past continuity when they want to push some new plot-line, and this is no exception.

-I'm surprisingly liking Imra right now, but her and Mon-el do come across as fairly tone deaf and insensitive when it comes to Kara's feelings.  More so him than her, since he should know better by now.  Also I doubt that fans of the LOSH will be pleased with the show's take on their origins.

-Speaking of Kara's feelings, I do feel like this episode regressed her feelings from the crossover.  She's back to being mopey.

[Iceman91]

If Alex eventually adopt Ruby and Supergirl has to kill Reign the Danvers family dinner are going to be very awkward ... 

 

Do you think they'll try to explain why Clark has a legion ring? I always thought that he had an adventure before Mon-El's time with them but with the reveal that he's the legion founder maybe Clark meet them further in time. And while I like Mon-El more than the average viewer I have trouble believing that in 7 years he found the time to adapt to a whole new world, grieve Kara and becoming enough of a leader for these strangers that he could create the legion and convince them to follow him. I don't know why they stray so far from the comics, I'm not an expert in comics but from what I read comics legion has nothing in common with TV legion for the moment.

[mrspidey]

16 hours ago, bmoore4026 said:

Shouldn't she also be blonde, Arrowverse people!?

And while we're at it, why isn't Barry blonde? In fact, why did Eddie Thawne look so much more like Comic Barry than Grant Gustin?

 

17 hours ago, Oreo2234 said:

. The scene where Reign attacked all those criminals was quite well done. It reminded me of a scene from a movie but I can't put my finger on what it was. 

That was so Batman Begins.

Edited December 5, 2017 by mrspidey

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, kdm07 said:

This is where I bid Supergirl goodbye. I hope that the writing improves next year for those of you still watching but I've reached the end of my patience with this show.

I set the bar pretty low for these kind of shows, they're just popcorn entertainment to me.  I don't care that the world these people inhabit makes no sense, just give me some fun villains and exciting plots.  The problem this show has, for me anyway, is it gets way to soapy.  I really don't care about Kara's love triangle with Mon-El.  Leave that stuff to General Hospital and just give me some good superhero action.

[iMonrey]

Quote

The ship arrived through the wormhole 12000 years ago, and Mon-el set the alarm so that they would wake up in the 31st century, but 'the torpedo' woke him up.

So wait . . . when Mon-El first showed up last season, he was simultaneously already here, down in the pod, under water, right? Because if he went back 12,000 years ago then he'd have been there when his past self first arrived on earth. Mind boggling. 

[JapMo]

1 hour ago, Dobian said:

I set the bar pretty low for these kind of shows, they're just popcorn entertainment to me.  I don't care that the world these people inhabit makes no sense, just give me some fun villains and exciting plots.  The problem this show has, for me anyway, is it gets way to soapy.  I really don't care about Kara's love triangle with Mon-El.  Leave that stuff to General Hospital and just give me some good superhero action.

I don't mind the soap, but except for Psi, I haven't been impressed with any villians...oh, wait a minute, I do like Edge.  As far as exciting plots, I loved the first episode, and it's been downhill from there for me.

[ottoDbusdriver]

56 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

So wait . . . when Mon-El first showed up last season, he was simultaneously already here, down in the pod, under water, right? Because if he went back 12,000 years ago then he'd have been there when his past self first arrived on earth. Mind boggling. 

Pretty much.  Has Mon-El said where the ship was "supposed" to be going before it got sucked into yet another time-traveling wormhole.  Was the plan to travel back in time ?  Or was that also an accident ?  All these wormholes lingering around Earth seems oddly convenient -- almost like someone is doing it intentionally.

And is the 31st Century so advanced that they have a power supply that can last for 12,000 years ?  And a spaceship that can also survive underwater like a submarine for the same amount of time (since keeping air in is a whole lot different than keeping water out), and is also immune to corrosion/aging/rusting ?

Why did the writers have to make the wormhole take them back 12,000 years ?  That seems excessive, and a tad ridiculous.  

[tennisgurl]

I kind of wish they had done the Legion stuff first, and then they did Reign after the winter break. That way they could have focused more on Sam and her growing friendship with Lena and Kara and being a mom to Ruby (and maybe write Ruby as an actual 12 year old) and grew her more as a character, with just slight hints in the background that something was going on with her. She seems so shoehorned into the plot now, like she just fell out of the sky (figuratively) and became this super important person in Kara's life after no time at all. I can even buy her getting attached to Mon-El super fast more, due to their shared alien connection. Sam is just some random woman for all Kara knows. Not that I dont totally buy becoming best friends with a person in a short amount of time (I was having BFF Christmas with my best friend from grad school after about a semester), but you have to spend a significant amount of time together, and really connect (like previously mentioned best friend) and I just dont see that with Sam and Kara. 

If Sam was introduced as a supporting character in this half of the season, and Mon-El and the Legion were introduced sooner, and became the main focus, along with a threat they had to defeat from their time, we could have had more of a build up to Reign/Sam and the inevitable drama when Kara finds out whats going on, and we could have had more fun with the Legion. Granted, its not perfect (I enjoyed the lack of Mon-El this season), but I think this could have worked out better. 

4 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

James' story this season is better than last season, but I'm not saying it's better period. I still wish he had more to do and I wish their solution wasn't throwing him at Lena in hopes that they'll have chemistry and make up for how little James did last season. I would be fully invested in James/Lena as business partners, rather than a romantic couple.  Same with Winn, who did get more to do last season, but he's had more interactions with Kara this season compared to last.

Honestly, I think this show kind of just sucks at writing an ensemble cast. Not that everyone needs tons of attention (its still Supergirls show) but they have too many characters that they clearly have no idea what to do with. J`onn and Alex usually come off best, because they're more in touch with the DEO stuff, and Mon-El, who the writers clearly adore, but all the other supporting characters just kind of float around to provide exposition or to occasionally influence the plot when it needs them. Honestly, this show should borrow some of the Legends of Tomorrow writers for a writers workshop or to write a few episodes. They manage to handle a cast of around eight to ten characters, and give them all something to do each episode and most of them get interesting subplots. It can be done!

[secnarf]

18 hours ago, Oreo2234 said:

She's was doing medical stuff last year too. If I recall correctly at the beginning  of the show she was just a scientist but at some point they decided she also studied medicine too.

She didn't study medicine anywhere near enough to be an expert at intubating someone with no medications.

7 hours ago, ottoDbusdriver said:

That seemed like an odd decision by Reign --  after severely beating Supergirl, let gravity finish her off.

Maybe she was going for the dramatic?

7 hours ago, iMonrey said:

The whole time Supergirl was fighting Reign, all I kept thinking was "pull off her mask so you can see who she is." Somehow that never happens in superhero fights.

I was expecting this to happen the entire time.

6 hours ago, Writing Wrongs said:

Wait, what? I thought she was married?

She got divorced around the same time she started dating Chris Wood, iirc.

[StarBrand]

So Reign just fooled around with Kara for a while, then decided to do some harsh shit. There hasn't yet been a viillian capable of laying that kind of damage on Kara-on this basis of what I saw here, she doesn't have any chance.  We all know Kara ain't gonna die, of course, but darn, especially at the end, a one-sided beatdown.

Kind of reminds me of KITT vs Goliath way back when. (God, that dates me). The time where the supposedly indestructible hero goes up against someone/something at least, if not stronger than it and then gets their ass handed to them....

[wilnil]

19 hours ago, JamieLynn832002 said:

Is it possible that Kara and Alex were somehow only gone for a day or less in Earth-38 time? I know they were on Earth-1 longer but that's the only way I can see the timeline with the crossover making sense. Although, even if that were true, I'd still think nearly having your heart stolen by your Nazi doppelganger would be something you'd mention so I have no idea how the crossover works here.

It is possible, based on how they handled the Season 1 visit to Earth-38 by Barry Allen. He crossed over by hitting a new top speed with the aid of some device, spent at least a couple days helping Kara, then went back to Earth-1 to discover that he'd returned at the same moment he'd left.

[KirkB]

35 minutes ago, StarBrand said:

Kind of reminds me of KITT vs Goliath way back when. (God, that dates me). The time where the supposedly indestructible hero goes up against someone/something at least, if not stronger than it and then gets their ass handed to them....

Not to get too far off the topic here but my own dated Knight Rider geek prompts me to point out that while Goliath was huge and powerful the only reason KITT got trashed in their first encounter is because it had first been stripped of its molecular bonded shell. That said, in both cases the same basic trope is in play. The hero has to get beaten down by the villain both to show the badassery of the villain and to make the audience wonder how the hero can possibly overcome something so much more powerful then them. In this case, I'm willing to bet it's not going to be Kara who ultimately beats Reign, it'll be Sam herself with a large helping of Ruby on the side.

Also, I like the way Adrian Pasdar is playing Edge. When Lena and James came into his office and blamed him for the  Kryptonian symbols appearing all over the city (which WE knew he wasn't responsible for) the expression on his face seemed to be "Damn, why didn't I think of that?"

Edited December 5, 2017 by KirkB

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, secnarf said:

She didn't study medicine anywhere near enough to be an expert at intubating someone with no medications.

Alex went to the University of Shonda Rhimes. 

[Trini]

I’m with you M’rynn; hot chocolate is the superior brown water!

We didn’t have another awkward Thanksgiving this year, but the Christmas party makes up for it.

So, Sam’s only Reign part-time? Hopefully, the writers here can pull this off better than The Flash did with Caitlin/Killer Frost.

They actually had James and Lena in matching colors! They’re so lovely together.

Agent Vasquez! It’s a Christmas miracle!

They’re kinda making Imra kinda perfect — this won’t end well.

So… does Kara or Clark get any money from House of El merchandise?

The Reign mask and makeup are actually working pretty well to hide Sam’s identity.

Surprised they ended it on such a cliffhanger. I mean, Kara will survive, but still.

So with this season’s theme with Kara questioning her ‘humanity’, it would actually be appropriate for a good cousin-to-cousin talk with Clark.

[JasmineFlower]

Is this Supergirl or Grey's Anatomy? What in the world is Alex doing intubating her sister? That is not garden variety first aid training. Did I miss something or did they just momentarily want Chyler Leigh to have another scene as Lexie Grey?

I like this episode a decent amount. I was impressed by James for a minute there and found him to be useful to the episode, which is rare these days. That was some for real for real fighting and it was well done. I'm still not sure what they mean to do with this Sam character outside of a rival for Supergirl, but hopefully it will take shape in a good and not disappointing way. Also, thank goodness this episode kept the daughter contained.

I'm still not even remotely on board with this friendship level jumping they've got going on with Sam/Odette's character and the whole crew. Lena's calling her one of her best friends? Which goes along with some of the same stuff from a few weeks ago when apparently Alex is so friendly with her that she's considered an aunt to the daughter. It didn't make sense then and it doesn't make sense now. She's been in town for like a three weeks. Maybe her and Lena have a much deeper history that I missed them mentioning, but the others remain the same, it's too much too fast on the friendship front. 

[Winston Wolfe]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So wait . . . when Mon-El first showed up last season, he was simultaneously already here, down in the pod, under water, right? Because if he went back 12,000 years ago then he'd have been there when his past self first arrived on earth. Mind boggling. 

As Captain Janeway always said "Temporal mechanics, it gives me a headache."

[Star Aristille]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 0:29 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Morgan Edge continues to be the worst, but Adrian Pasdar continues to be the best.

You can tell he's having a blast being so bad.  I'm guessing Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. will be in the future and space all season, so Talbot won't be needed, thus letting us have his awesomeness as Edge.  Neat!

James and Lena don't do anything for me romantically just yet, but I did like that James was smart enough to insist going with Lena to confront Edge this time.  Obviously, Lena doesn't need protecting, per se, but the dude did almost have her killed.  Better to have at least someone there in case confronting him leads to another attempt.

I also adored Katie McGrath's perky smile when Lena told Edge over the phone that he would die alone and in prison.  Being hatefully friendly is something she should do more often.

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 0:29 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Cool seeing Coville/Chad Lowe again.  And Vasquez!!

Just to be sure, Vasquez is also Agent Piper on Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D., right?  The actress looks so much like her.

[statsgirl]

I really like what they are doing with  Sam this year, even though the insta-bff with Kara is a big out of left field.   She's a single mother who's trying hard to balance work and her child.  She never signed up for the cult, she never signed up to be Reign and I'm interested to see how she handles it. I hope she doesn't go all Evil Villain in a sudden turn because these shows have too much of that already.

On 12/5/2017 at 10:17 AM, Lady Calypso said:

I really don't get what they're going for with this love triangle. They keep making Mon-El looking like the douchiest douche that has ever douched. He's either playing both women or he's deliberately hurting Kara's feelings. Like, who in their right frame of mind would make out and be intimiate with their wife in front of their girlfriend who they know is hurting and has had less time to move on from what happened? Is Mon-El really that stupid that he thinks what he's doing is ok? He had seven years to move on, but Kara didn't, AND she thought it was her fault that he might have died! Then, he comes back with a wife, but pretends up until that reveal that he wants to work things out with her. He basically broke her heart and then has continued to stomp on it. But yeah, sure, they're ALL handling it like adults.

But it's consistent because Mon El has always been douchey.  He started out as a douchey frat boy and while he got better for  Love of Kara, maybe the underlying douchiness never went away.

I have no idea what they're going to do with Mon El because I have the feeling that the deciding factor is behind the scenes stuff rather than the quality of the storytelling itself.  If Chris Woods hadn't become Melissa Benoist's partner, maybe they would have stuck with their 2 year plan for Mon El and that's why he's acting this way, in order to let Mon El and Irma leave at the end of this season.  But now they may keep Chris Woods around in which case poor Irma.

I second that this season has been much better for the supporting cast like James and J'onn because of less time spent on Mon El. Maybe Winn will get more soon too.

On 12/5/2017 at 11:18 AM, tofutan said:

Alex being around just to give Kara peptalks and worry about her is just ... empty. 

From what I've seen this year, except for the crossover in which Kara was almost killed by the Evil Nazis, the peptalks and support have been from Kara to Alex.

[Lady Calypso]

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

But it's consistent because Mon El has always been douchey.  He started out as a douchey frat boy and while he got better for  Love of Kara, maybe the underlying douchiness never went away.

It's definitely consistent, but I think we're supposed to like him somehow. I don't think their intent is to make him an intentional douche. Or maybe it is, but if they want him sticking around, they need to progress him more. I know they're going to go back to Mon-El/Kara, but they're doing a horrible job at making Mon-El worthy of Kara's love and forgiveness when he's doing what he's doing in front of her. 

I think, if Chris Wood and Melissa Benoist weren't dating, they might have decided to end the relationship for good this season and have them stick as friends. But with the two dating, I believe it creates the security that Chris is still involved with the show. Realistically, they're setting it up for Mon-El and Imra to go back to the 31st century. However, I'm positive that's not what is going to happen. Either Imra's going to die, Mon-El's going to rediscover his love for Kara and leaving Imra to go back by herself, or Imra's going to turn out to be a bigger douche to Kara and that'll bring Mon-El and Kara back together. None of these options are particularly pleasant. 

8 hours ago, statsgirl said:

I second that this season has been much better for the supporting cast like James and J'onn because of less time spent on Mon El. Maybe Winn will get more soon too.

Oh, I totally agree. James is actually given screentime and has surpassed his number for conversations with Kara from last year! He's had several Supergirl pep talks! That hasn't happened since season 1! Last season, it was James whining to Kara about wanting to be a hero because he broke his damn camera! And then the rest of his scenes were with Winn. This time, there's more of a balance of James pep talking Kara (it IS her show, after all) and they've actually hung out. J'onn is also getting more to do with his dad storyline, which is great. Last season, it was like it was a chore for the show to write J'onn in. Now, I get that their budget doesn't allow for Martian Manhunter to appear in every episode, or even many of them, but they're actually developing J'onn's backstory more this season. 

Now, show, can you PLEASE not forget about Winn? I know you gave him some solid character development last season with the Guardian arc and then with Lyra, but can you give him friendship scenes with Kara again instead of pretending that Kara/Sam are best friends, despite them barely sharing scenes together without Lena there? Thanks. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

21 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I think, if Chris Wood and Melissa Benoist weren't dating, they might have decided to end the relationship for good this season and have them stick as friends. But with the two dating, I believe it creates the security that Chris is still involved with the show.

See, this just confounds me. Is it now written in show contracts that if two actors in the same show are dating in real life, that their characters must also be paired up romantically? And that just by the mere fact of them dating or being married or whatever, if one is not a lead or wasn't a regular cast member when they joined the show, he or she must be because, you know, they're dating in real life! And therefore, must stay together on the show as well!

[Lady Calypso]

29 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

See, this just confounds me. Is it now written in show contracts that if two actors in the same show are dating in real life, that their characters must also be paired up romantically? And that just by the mere fact of them dating or being married or whatever, if one is not a lead or wasn't a regular cast member when they joined the show, he or she must be because, you know, they're dating in real life! And therefore, must stay together on the show as well!

It's definitely not written in any contract, because I think that would be illegal, but I think, with Melissa being the star, it gives a little push for Chris to not just be let go. I've seen countless shows that have gone in this direction, where if the actors are dating in real life, then the characters do too. So maybe it's not a given. Maybe Chris won't be a regular next season and Mon-El will end up moving on from Kara. But they haven't set up another love interest for Kara, which would have been typical for a show to do with their leading character, and it's more the worry that they'll change courses because of the real life couple. 

So, maybe not a guarantee, but they won't just kill off Mon-El at the end of this season as they want that door open for him to still be on the show. 

Again, I'm just going off of experience with these particular types of shows. I just think that they had a different plan with Mon-El when Chris was first cast but there's the likely chance that things have changed due to the actors' relationship. 

For the record, I'd love to be proven wrong, I really, really would. I'd love to see Mon-El actually leave at the end of the season and have his purpose this season only to give closure to his relationship with Kara and maybe helping to defeat Reign. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Lady Calypso
star not start

[GHScorpiosRule]

Thanks @Lady Calypso. I'd frankly never realized this. I mean, I've watched a LOT of shows, and have seen where boyfriends/girlfriends/SO's/husbands/wives of stars guest star on shows, but their characters were never, or rather, very rarely paired romantically. And the few times they were (and I'm blanking), I remember reading "so and so have NOOOO chemistry! They should stick to their relationship offscreen!"

I think it's really stupid. Unless the story calls for it, or the show runners want to make Kara and Mon-El their OTP; otherwise, just jettison him if he's not going to be one.  I mean, that is his only purpose, it seems to me.

[Lady Calypso]

26 minutes ago, GHScorpiosRule said:

Thanks @Lady Calypso. I'd frankly never realized this. I mean, I've watched a LOT of shows, and have seen where boyfriends/girlfriends/SO's/husbands/wives of stars guest star on shows, but their characters were never, or rather, very rarely paired romantically. And the few times they were (and I'm blanking), I remember reading "so and so have NOOOO chemistry! They should stick to their relationship offscreen!"

I think it's really stupid. Unless the story calls for it, or the show runners want to make Kara and Mon-El their OTP; otherwise, just jettison him if he's not going to be one.  I mean, that is his only purpose, it seems to me.

I think the difference here in comparison with those shows are that Chris/Melissa met on set, and their characters were also paired romantically first before the actors started a relationship. 

Anyway, moving on from that behind the scenes stuff, Mon-El/Kara really do seem done after this episode. I'm not sure how they can make them a romantic couple again after all this set-up to give them closure, and have Mon-El respect her as a person and respect that she changed his life and gave him purpose to change. It would be nice to see Kara truly move on and have them never speak of their relationship again! Imra also seems like a very nice person and I'd hate to see them retcon that (though maybe it wouldn't be much of a retcon in terms of this show's canon universe because this is only her second episode).