S01.E10: Sacrifice

[Guest]

Quote

Members of the hospital's surgical team are initially impressed with a charming young doctor, but his true character puts one of them in an awkward position at work. Meanwhile, Dr. Glassman feels Dr. Shaun Murphy needs a little more support with his personal life and suggests he meet with a therapist. However, Shaun is determined to show him that he can do it on his own.

[Pink-n-Green]

I'm so sad that this is the last show before the winter hiatus!  I'm curious to see how the episode plays out vs. how the previews make it look.  It's hard to imagine Shaun just wailing on Dr. Glassman like we saw!

[Lady Calypso]

Man, Melendez started as one of my least favourites and now he's one of my favourites. Somehow, they turned him around quite quickly in ten episodes. Meanwhile, Andrews remains the worst. Melendez grew respect for Shaun, while Andrews couldn't care less.

Jessica's father is kind of horrible. I thought the writing for that scene was actually not good. It felt like a TV trope, in all honesty. It felt forced to have Jessica's dad as some moocher off of a trust fund and wanted his daughter to basically be the same way. I simply didn't buy it. 

Poor Claire. Is she going to keep getting shit on week after week? Now, this week, sexual harassment and Kalu made it 100 times worse. I knew it was going to happen, and I'm glad Claire rung him out. But I did NOT expect Kalu to be fired from his job. Like, damn. 

Hey! Jason Mendoza from The Good Place, now on The Good Doctor this week! I thoroughly enjoyed his character. I'm not a fan of his character on his show, but the actor did well here. He seemed to play a more subdued and somewhat smarter version here. Besides the dudes and the casual speak, I thought he managed to show a lot of nuance. 

Poor Shaun. He's having a REALLY bad week. What a way to end the mid-season. I suspect Shaun took off back to his home that he was living in in the pilot? 

[Amethyst]

Man, I thought Shaun was going to throw up during that confrontation with Glassman.  But this was coming.  It would have been better if Glassman had made the therapy a condition of Shaun's employment.  Like he has to attend at least 3 sessions to see how it goes, or he's fired.  Neither of them handled that particularly well, but Shaun really broke down.

Can Claire use the testimony of her patient to confirm that Coyle harassed her, and to help get Kalu reinstated?  Poor girl has been in the shit for the past few weeks.  And despite what happened in the end, she did handle the situation well.  She clearly stated that's Coyle's actions were inappropriate and that was making her uncomfortable.  

Jared screwed up, but I can appreciate that he realized that he had been judgmental with Claire, and that's how scumbags like Coyle get away with shit like this.  Eerie plotline given what's going on in Hollywood right now.

Jessica's plot is the weak link, imo.  For one thing, she has the same facial expression in every scene; mildly bored or amused.  And I don't care about her father, or that she doesn't want kids.  She just doesn't add anything to the show.

[Annber03]

2 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I suspect Shaun took off back to his home that he was living in in the pilot? 

That would make sense. Trying to catch a bus back home to familiar surroundings. Which, if that's the case, aw...

That moment between him and Glassman, though. Yeah, we knew it was coming thanks to the promos, but still. Damn. The look of shock on Glassman's face was the most heartbreaking part, I think. Shaun is right, though. It's confusing to hear, "You can do whatever you want" one minute only to have somebody constantly pressuring you to do something they want you to do the next despite your constantly saying "No". And he knows how that sort of conflicting message would confuse and frustrate Shaun. 

6 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Poor Claire. Is she going to keep getting shit on week after week? Now, this week, sexual harassment and Kalu made it 100 times worse. I knew it was going to happen, and I'm glad Claire rung him out. But I did NOT expect Kalu to be fired from his job. Like, damn. 

Neither did I. I certainly don't blame him for wanting to send the message to that guy to back the fuck off, but yeah, that was definitely not the way to go about doing so. I loved how Claire handled the guy, and I liked the way she pointed out the issues that would come with her trying to speak up, though I'm ultimately glad she did decide to go to the higher ups. For a moment there I was afraid she'd be the one being let go somehow. Thank goodness that didn't happen. 

(And now that Jared's assaulted somebody on the job, I wonder if Shaun will get in trouble for his physical outburst towards Glassman, too, when they manage to bring him back from wherever he went. It'll be interesting to see how they hold Glassman himself accountable, too, given the promises he made to the staff in the first episode.)

On a different note, okay, so there's some cracks in Jared and Claire's relationship as well as Melendez and Jessica's. Hm. Jared and Claire might be able to get past their issues, but the issue of having kids is a big one for many couples to get past. If that affects Melendez and Jessica's relationship, that'll be sad, 'cause I kinda like them together. But I'd be interested to see how the show would handle the impact of that issue on their relationship, one way or the other. 

Also liked Jessica sticking up for herself, or trying to, at least, during that awkward as hell dinner, though. 

And to end on a happier note, these lines from Shaun made me laugh tonight:

"You have beautiful hair."

and

"I do not want the glory, bro." (just something about the way he said that)

So, January 8th, then, eh? Only a little over a month's wait, so that's not too bad. Looking VERY forward to the show's return next month!

[chocolatine]

As soon as Jared touched Eric Winter, I knew he was done for. Guys like Eric Winter know how to play the system to their advantage.

I could so relate to Claire. I was in a similar situation once and did report the harassment/discrimination. I was treated like shit by HR until I got a senior executive (who happened to be male) to speak up on my behalf. Even though the situation was resolved in my favor eventually, I wasn't able to shake the reputation of being "difficult" after that; I ended up leaving less than a year later. Harassment is insidious that way.

I also felt terrible for Shaun. My brother is autistic, and I've learned a long time ago that when he says no to something, insisting only makes things worse. Glassman should have shelved the idea of a therapist after the first time Shaun spent the night in the broom closet.

Anything to do with Jessica and Melendez as a couple leaves me completely cold. They're the kind of couple that looks good on paper, but I'm not seeing a great love or commitment between them. And shouldn't the conversation about children have come up long before the engagement?

[tennisgurl]

Wow, everything went down super fast this week! How am I supposed to wait until January? What a way to end the mid season. Shaun smacked Glassman (albeit accidentally) and run away, Claire is sexually harassed, and Kalu is fired for attacking the asshole doctor! What a day! 

Jason Mendoza! So weird to see him outside of the Good Place! I really liked him here, he was playing a variation of Jason, but a smarter, more realistic person. He still had that "Dude!" way of talking, but he clearly has way more functioning brain cells than Jason, and he found some nice moments of nuance here and there. I also liked the connection he made with Shaun, even if his advice didn't end up going super well. It wasn't bad advice, but Shaun didn't quite take it right. Also, when they said the guy was a video game star, I assumed he would be an asshole with a huge ego and nothing to back it up, or a total dork, but he was actually a pretty nice guy, and the doctors seemed to gain some real respect for him. 

Poor Claire. Every day, she must wake up and think "oh, what fresh Hell awaits me today" before she gets up and gets ready for work. That guy was a creep, I hope he at least gets written up or something, even after what Jared did. Speaking of, she totally was in the right for telling him off for treating her like some damsel that he can save by being the bigger Alpha Guy, but I still feel awful that he got fired. I hope that he can get his job back soon, he has really grown on me, bad life choices and all. 

Poor Shaun. He didn't handle things perfectly, but he was so clearly messed up over being forced to get a therapist, Glassman should have started small, and worked from there, depending on how Shaun responded to it. They both could have handled that a lot better. The look on Glassmans face when Shaun lashed out at him was just heartbreaking. I assume he went to the place he lived with his brother, I hope they find him really soon. Him hiding in the basement was so sad. 

I really like Melendez (and considering how much I couldn't stand him at first, thats impressive), but he and Jessica are not very interesting. They just dont seem to have any real connection besides working at the hospital and being pretty together. Plus, Jessica is definitely my least favorite and most underdeveloped character. When she isn't boring, she`s pretty unpleasant. Like, your just NOW telling your fiance you dont want kids? This never came up before? Melendez clearly thought they were on the same page, did she let him think that they were, or did they honestly never discuss this? 

Only a month left, hurry up January! 

[Amethyst]

10 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

And shouldn't the conversation about children have come up long before the engagement?

 

6 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

Like, your just NOW telling your fiance you dont want kids? This never came up before? Melendez clearly thought they were on the same page, did she let him think that they were, or did they honestly never discuss this? 

I do remember Jessica hedging around the topic when she was in bed with Melendez a few weeks ago.  I just think this recent discussion with her father really confirmed it for Jessica that she doesn't want kids.  

[Annber03]

33 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

I could so relate to Claire. I was in a similar situation once and did report the harassment/discrimination. I was treated like shit by HR until I got a senior executive (who happened to be male) to speak up on my behalf. Even though the situation was resolved in my favor eventually, I wasn't able to shake the reputation of being "difficult" after that; I ended up leaving less than a year later. Harassment is insidious that way.

Sorry you had to go through that crap. I am glad that you had somebody on your side, though. 

25 minutes ago, tennisgurl said:

I hope he at least gets written up or something, even after what Jared did. Speaking of, she totally was in the right for telling him off for treating her like some damsel that he can save by being the bigger Alpha Guy, but I still feel awful that he got fired. I hope that he can get his job back soon, he has really grown on me, bad life choices and all. 

It was really interesting to see Jared getting so physical towards that guy, considering earlier in the episode he so smoothly diffused that tense moment between Shaun and Melendez when they were arguing in the hallway. Your mention of his bad life choices and whatnot has me feeling like that aggressive side of him is part of his past in a way, and it'd be an interesting aspect to explore further, especially in the context of this situation. 

Edited December 5, 2017 by Annber03

[JenMcSnark]

1 hour ago, tennisgurl said:

Wow, everything went down super fast this week! How am I supposed to wait until January? What a way to end the mid season. Shaun smacked Glassman (albeit accidentally) and run away, Claire is sexually harassed, and Kalu is fired for attacking the asshole doctor! What a day! 

Jason Mendoza! So weird to see him outside of the Good Place! I really liked him here, he was playing a variation of Jason, but a smarter, more realistic person. He still had that "Dude!" way of talking, but he clearly has way more functioning brain cells than Jason, and he found some nice moments of nuance here and there. I also liked the connection he made with Shaun, even if his advice didn't end up going super well. It wasn't bad advice, but Shaun didn't quite take it right. Also, when they said the guy was a video game star, I assumed he would be an asshole with a huge ego and nothing to back it up, or a total dork, but he was actually a pretty nice guy, and the doctors seemed to gain some real respect for him. 

Poor Claire. Every day, she must wake up and think "oh, what fresh Hell awaits me today" before she gets up and gets ready for work. That guy was a creep, I hope he at least gets written up or something, even after what Jared did. Speaking of, she totally was in the right for telling him off for treating her like some damsel that he can save by being the bigger Alpha Guy, but I still feel awful that he got fired. I hope that he can get his job back soon, he has really grown on me, bad life choices and all. 

Poor Shaun. He didn't handle things perfectly, but he was so clearly messed up over being forced to get a therapist, Glassman should have started small, and worked from there, depending on how Shaun responded to it. They both could have handled that a lot better. The look on Glassmans face when Shaun lashed out at him was just heartbreaking. I assume he went to the place he lived with his brother, I hope they find him really soon. Him hiding in the basement was so sad. 

I really like Melendez (and considering how much I couldn't stand him at first, thats impressive), but he and Jessica are not very interesting. They just dont seem to have any real connection besides working at the hospital and being pretty together. Plus, Jessica is definitely my least favorite and most underdeveloped character. When she isn't boring, she`s pretty unpleasant. Like, your just NOW telling your fiance you dont want kids? This never came up before? Melendez clearly thought they were on the same page, did she let him think that they were, or did they honestly never discuss this? 

Only a month left, hurry up January! 

I think they must have discussed it because they did so briefly in the episode where the wife wanted to have the fetal surgery.  IIRC she said something about having kids vs adoption and he asked said "don't you want to have my kids" or something and she said of course.  I don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure they have discussed it and she definitely led him to believe she wanted children.

[Bobbin]

Claire and Shaun struggling to get the same message across:  no means no! As for Jared's actions, males are wired to be defenders and problem-solvers -- cut the guy some slack.

[Manda317]

1 hour ago, JenMcSnark said:

I think they must have discussed it because they did so briefly in the episode where the wife wanted to have the fetal surgery.  IIRC she said something about having kids vs adoption and he asked said "don't you want to have my kids" or something and she said of course.  I don't remember exactly but I'm pretty sure they have discussed it and she definitely led him to believe she wanted children.

From what I remember in that scene it also appeared she was not as in to the idea of children as he was. She was saying there was no reason to have a biological child when you could adopt, and it was very obvious he wanted biological children. It was obvious that she had no interest in pregnancy, but she didn't say that she didn't want a family at all. Especially after tonight, you can tell that she has a difficult time asserting what she wants.

26 minutes ago, Bobbin said:

Claire and Shaun struggling to get the same message across:  no means no! As for Jared's actions, males are wired to be defenders and problem-solvers -- cut the guy some slack.

I was sad that he lost his job too. I hope it turns out that he only gets a suspension after more information comes to light. We don't know what story that guy told, so hopefully Claire cleared up what happened and the patient confirms if the jerk tries to say that she is making it up to save her boyfriend. Jared deserves to suffer consequences because he didn't handle the situation well, but I don't think he should be fired. He really is a good doctor.

[SayMyName]

I also wondered why the patient wasn't questioned about the harassment. Guys like that always run to the authorities first so they can set the narrative.

Having dealt with HR in regards to  a horrible boss in the past...people think they are there for the employees but in reality they do what is in the best interest of the company first.

It was also nice to see a patient that wasn't freaked out by having Shaun be one of the doctors.

[izabella]

1 hour ago, SayMyName said:

I also wondered why the patient wasn't questioned about the harassment. Guys like that always run to the authorities first so they can set the narrative.

I was wondering about that, too.  Maybe they're saving that for the next episode?  At the time Jared was fired, Claire's patient was telling her that she had heard everything, so Claire might have brought that up when she went to report Coyle and found out Jared had been fired. 

[vibeology]

I don't see how the patient's testimony does anything to help Jared. It's not as though Jared went after Coyle at the moment Coyle was harassing Claire. Coyle is horrible and should lose his job for harassing a coworker/subordinate. But Jared attacked a coworker. You can't do that. He should also be fired. The problem is that for every coworker that gets fired, the rumours around Claire only get worse even though that's grossly unfair. Claire's professional reputation is also going to take a huge hit and that sucks because she's the only person who did everything right.

The conflict between Shaun and Glassman did not work for me at all. What the hell was the urgency for Shaun to see the therapist? As Glassman himself pointed out to Melendez, Shaun's work was good. Until Shaun took to hiding out at the hospital, his hygiene was good. He sorted out his bus situation and was on time. He's making friends. He has a good routine. Aside from more maple syrup than is probably recommended, his diet is good. So why did Glassman dig in his heels and not follow Shaun's lead? Is it just that Glassman is too paternalistic with Shaun? I needed his side of it to be fleshed out more.

As for Shaun, I've gotten the sense over the series so far that he carried shame about his autism. The fact that until he had that patient with autism a few weeks ago that he'd never met anyone with autism is pretty shocking. It's 2017. There are communities online. He's seemed very forceful about not getting any sort of help and I do wonder if that is limiting him somewhat. But more than that, Shaun strikes me as someone who would benefit from traditional therapy. He had a horrible home life, saw his brother die, has been very isolated since he was a young teen. Anyone in that situation probably should try therapy at some point to see if it could be helpful.

[Guest]

It was an uneven episode, to me.  

First of all, the cliffhanger doesn't work for me at all.  There is no suspense to "will Shaun come back?!"  The show is about him.  He's the main character.  Of course he isn't going to be written out after 10 episodes.

Second, the other "cliffhanger?"  I don't care about Melendez and Jessica at all.  I certainly don't care about whether or not they plan on having kids.  And while Melendez is one of my favorite characters on the show, I think he was a total jerk to her dad.  

Claire keeps getting dumped on.  Jared will probably be back, but honestly, he deserved to be fired.  

All that being said, I overall liked the episode - Shaun's slow burn to a breakdown, the athlete patient of the week, etc.

[Bobbin]

1 hour ago, deaja said:

And while Melendez is one of my favorite characters on the show, I think he was a total jerk to her dad.  

Claire keeps getting dumped on.  Jared will probably be back, but honestly, he deserved to be fired.  

Melendez and Jared were both defending "their" women. For millenia that's what women wanted from their men. Give the guys a break. Suddenly it's a crime to pull out a chair or hold the door open? Of course they can do those things for themselves -- that was never the point.

If it wasn't for the unfairness of life and good people making bad choices, there would be no drama, IRL as well as on TV.

[vibeology]

1 minute ago, Bobbin said:

Melendez and Jared were both defending "their" women. For millenia that's what women wanted from their men. Give the guys a break. Suddenly it's a crime to pull out a chair or hold the door open? Of course they can do those things for themselves -- that was never the point.

Neither guy in question was pulling out a chair or holding open a door. Jared assaulted someone. That is an actual crime. Has been for a long time. He's lucky that Coyle didn't press charges in an effort to make things even worse. 

Melendez was being a jerk. Not a crime but the idea that it isn't okay to call someone a parasite is also not new. Jessica's dad seems like a pill, but he's the son-in-law and he should let Jessica take the lead in her relationship with her father.

I like both of these characters but they both did things that were wrong. They should get called out.

1 hour ago, deaja said:

First of all, the cliffhanger doesn't work for me at all.  There is no suspense to "will Shaun come back?!"  The show is about him.  He's the main character.  Of course he isn't going to be written out after 10 episodes.

No kidding. There's always the chance he'll get himself into some trouble but it certainly won't be anything too serious since the show isn't going anywhere.

As for Jessica and her not wanting kids, I'm honestly surprised that this is a surprise. She's a professional woman in her mid-30s who isn't even eager to set a wedding date. I know it's a stereotype but that screamed no kids to me right from the start. And that's fine as long as Melendez is on-board but it sounds like he isn't so that's a big problem.

[Guest]

I didn’t read Melendez as defending Jessica. Her father was irritating him in a lot of ways, so he took a cheap shot. 

[Lady Calypso]

Yeah, Melendez calling Jessica's father a parasite was the wrong way in going about that conversation. Her father was a dick for telling Jessica that she needed to quit her job so she can essentially 'live her life' and that her highly successful job was basically a waste of her time, but Melendez's reaction didn't do any favours. It's no wonder she walked out. She was standing up for herself with her dad but Melendez did make things worse. If he hadn't had said the parasite thing, he might have been able to salvage the conversation. 

[TomGirl]

3 hours ago, vibeology said:

The conflict between Shaun and Glassman did not work for me at all. What the hell was the urgency for Shaun to see the therapist? As Glassman himself pointed out to Melendez, Shaun's work was good. Until Shaun took to hiding out at the hospital, his hygiene was good. He sorted out his bus situation and was on time. He's making friends. He has a good routine. Aside from more maple syrup than is probably recommended, his diet is good. So why did Glassman dig in his heels and not follow Shaun's lead? Is it just that Glassman is too paternalistic with Shaun? I needed his side of it to be fleshed out more.

I think maybe it was supposed to “not work” and will be fleshed out in coming episodes.  We still don’t know the back story on Glassman, his own tragedy or how, why and what his relationship with Shaun came to be.  Shaun yelling, “You’re not my father!” seemed like a bigger blow than the physical slap.  Poor Toby!

[possibilities]

13 hours ago, Amethyst said:

It would have been better if Glassman had made the therapy a condition of Shaun's employment.  Like he has to attend at least 3 sessions to see how it goes, or he's fired. 

That would have been a gross abuse of power, though. IF Shaun's job performance is good, no one has a right to mandate he go to therapy or do anything else that's not required of every other employee.

 

5 hours ago, vibeology said:

Is it just that Glassman is too paternalistic with Shaun?

Yes, that's what I got from it. It's a bit weird because in the past he was saying that people should treat Shaun like a peer, not come running to Glass man for advice on how to deal with it, and generally showed respect for Shaun. It's pretty typical for people to try to control and direct disabled adults who don't need it, just as a kind of default BS, but Glassman was previously not doing that. So I think we're supposed to think he has a problem (like he's got a terminal illness or he's freaking out about his daughter's death all of a sudden even though it happened a long time ago), and is acting badly. It's extremely insulting and harmful to Shaun and undermines their otherwise positive relationship. But I don't think there's any way to frame his behavior as being correct, or even justifiable. Shaun has been doing great, improving in a lot of ways, taking advice when needed, seeking it actively. His supervisors are saying his work is good. His only problem right now is that he's being harassed and undermined by Glassman, who is supposed to be his ally. It's wrong, but it's not like it never happens. Many so-called allies get freaked out when their proteges start to not need them anymore. It's like they liked being the heroic savior, and don't want to see the other person out grow them, so they undermine them and provoke a crisis in order to get back in charge. It's sickening, but I've seen it happen.

I hope Shaun just moved, so Glassman can't go barging into his apartment. I hope it was a functional act of independence, and not a flight from his career. I didn't see the previews. But in my head, I hope he took his stuff and went to a hotel or something, so Glassman would leave him alone and stop ambushing him with unwanted interventions on his doorstep.

Calling the father in law a parasite was obviously not the best way to handle it, but at the same time, that father was being completely horrible, so I can't fault Melendez for calling him out, even if he didn't do it tactfully. I took it as genuine disgust, not chivalry.

Jared was just wrong. If he wanted to support Claire, he should have found her and asked her if there was a way he could help, not just gone behind her back and acted like a thug. Assaulting the other doctor is just stupid and wrong, and won't help her or anyone else. It's hard to believe he really thought that was a good approach, and it underscores a condescending attitude. Gross.

I thought Claire decided to report the incident BECAUSE the patient was willing and able to act as a witness. We don't know yet that that didn't happen, do we? They didn't show us her conversation with Andrews. But I would think that the hospital would be much more active in defending Claire if they  know that a member of the public, not someone they can intimidate or control, is going to testify for her. It's very bad PR if patients start complaining that the hospital permits this kind of behavior and does nothing about it.

I also suspect that there are other women on staff who have been harassed. These guys never do that stuff just once, or to just one person. So once there's momentum, Claire might get support internally as well. It's very hard to get these kinds of things dealt with, because without witnesses the organization can try to minimize it just like Jared did. But Claire has a witness now, one who cares about this issue and seemed like the kind of person who might not mind a fight.

I liked that the athlete patient was totally tuned in to Shaun and fine with him from the first meeting, and they didn't give us some reason (like he has an autistic sibling or something). He just identified with the guy who was not getting any respect, saw through it, and wanted it to change. It didn't matter to him one way or the other that Shaun was "atypical", it wasn't a cause for him, it was just basic human decency evenly distributed.

[MakeMeLaugh]

I don't know Jason Mendoza outside this episode but he was really good. And kudos to the writers for gracefully using a character to carry a plot line and also to act as a sounding board and mirror for Dr. Shaun Murphy to see himself in, as they've done before. 

I love the good intentions gone awry for Dr. Glassman with Shaun. And I especially love that the autistism isn't glossed over as just another personality trait in this show--Shaun's breakdown was the most painful scene I've watched on TV in any show this year. I admit I cried for him and for Dr. Glassman.

Jessica imo is by far the weakest character on this show (I'm not even sure what she even does at the hospital but did she get the job because of her family and/or her looks? Because that would be something to explore.) and can leave any time.

Clare and her harassment are too movie-of-the-week to me. Geez, go straight to your boss and HR in this climate--neither is going to want to be on record as dismissing it.

[izabella]

17 minutes ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Jessica imo is by far the weakest character on this show (I'm not even sure what she even does at the hospital but did she get the job because of her family and/or her looks? Because that would be something to explore.) and can leave any time.

She's a lawyer, so I assume she's the hospital's lawyer.  That's why she was the one who told Claire that the patient in last week's episode, the one who was put at risk of them removing her voice box because they lost her node sample, was suing the hospital.

[Bobbin]

1 hour ago, MakeMeLaugh said:

Clare and her harassment are too movie-of-the-week to me. Geez, go straight to your boss and HR in this climate--neither is going to want to be on record as dismissing it.

As both Claire and the patient explained, it has long been customary in business (and in the military) for the squeaking wheel, typically the subordinate employee, to take the fall, regardless of fault. Because Claire involved non-victim Jared whose (alleged*) actions were even more egregious, the hospital was coveniently able to pass the punishment on to Jared instead of Claire.

As for the patient being a witness, if her testimony included Claire calling out Dr. Coyle in her presence, notwithstanding that they both thought she was asleep, that would undoubtedly come down on Claire more than on Coyle.

I wonder if Coyle has been let go from previous jobs for sexual harassment, with each prior employer refusing to disclose the reason for him leaving.

* No witnesses, unlike the harassment  (we viewers don't count).

Edited December 5, 2017 by Bobbin
Added clarification.

[thuganomics85]

Jason Mendoza!  Was pretty cool seeing Manny Jacinto in another role, and while he started out as a more Jason-like character (albeit more successful and slightly more intentionally insightful), I did like how he ended up getting to do some different stuff at the end, and I thought Manny was good.  Still, I now want to Shaun to treat everyone from The Good Place playing a variation of their characters.  I can just him treating a Tahani-like or especially Eleanor-like character!  Melendez would then have to get onto him for saying "forking" all the time!

The expected Shaun/Glassman fight was as brutal as can be, even if the only actual violence was a slap.  I felt bad for both of them, but, again, while I truly believe Glassman means well, he really is making things worse by treating Shaun like a child and telling him one thing ("You are free to make your own decisions"), but doing another ("You will see this therapist no matter what!")  It's been kind of interesting because it feels like the way Melendez and even Andrews has been treating Shaun lately has actually been better for him, because after being one-dimensional dicks at first, they've now gone in a way where they will still challenge him and even make him angry, but they are treating him more and more like just another resident.  But the way Glassman treats him seems to be causing major regressions, despite his good intentions.  I get that he wants to look out for him and in a lot of ways, Glassman has no doubt been a great influence for Shaun, but he needs to realize that somethings he can't control, and he needs to accept that Shaun has to experience certain things; including failure; on his own.

Claire dealing with that skeevy doctor and sexual harassment at the workplace is certainly topical.  She really is the character that has all the shit pilled on her.  And, of course, Jared makes things worse, even if I can understand his anger (and I suspect some guilt over how he causally dismissed her original complaints.) I doubt he will be gone for good, so I wonder how they're going to walk back him getting fired.  I thought it was going to end on a suspicion, but being fired is a whole other ballgame, I imagine.

Melendez/Jessica's issues were the most boring part, especially since I already saw the "One person wants children, the other doesn't" played out on Supergirl. Either they'll work past it or break-up.  Yawn!

Obviously Shaun isn't going to disappear for good, but I'm curious to see how this is going to change things going forward.

[Annber03]

7 hours ago, deaja said:

First of all, the cliffhanger doesn't work for me at all.  There is no suspense to "will Shaun come back?!"  The show is about him.  He's the main character.  Of course he isn't going to be written out after 10 episodes.

Yes, obviously we know he'll be back, but the fact he went so far as to actually leave his house and not tell anyone where he was going, that is rather surprising, especially for somebody who's so used to routines and whatnot. I think the suspense is more in where he went, and just how far away he went, than the fact that he left in and of itself, along with wondering how he'll find his own way back, as well as what the others might do to try and bring him back. 

3 hours ago, possibilities said:

Many so-called allies get freaked out when their proteges start to not need them anymore. It's like they liked being the heroic savior, and don't want to see the other person out grow them, so they undermine them and provoke a crisis in order to get back in charge. It's sickening, but I've seen it happen.

This is an interesting point. I can totally see that being the case here to some degree. 

Quote

I hope Shaun just moved, so Glassman can't go barging into his apartment. I hope it was a functional act of independence, and not a flight from his career. I didn't see the previews. But in my head, I hope he took his stuff and went to a hotel or something, so Glassman would leave him alone and stop ambushing him with unwanted interventions on his doorstep.

Yeah, I can't imagine he's going to go so far as to leave town entirely. He clearly does love his job, and he worked so hard to get there, so would he want to jeopardize all of that? So I too hope he's just at a hotel or something. I've seen some suggest he might've gone to see Lea, which, if that's the case, then he's a lot closer than Glassman realizes. It would make sense for him to go to somebody else he knows and has come to trust. 

But it'd also make sense for him to want to be alone for a bit, too. So who knows. 

6 hours ago, Bobbin said:

Melendez and Jared were both defending "their" women. For millenia that's what women wanted from their men. 

Some might want that, yes. But not all. 

[DearEvette]

I think the Claire harassment story is actually smartly done given how brief it is.  They first show her discomfort and her inclination to down play it or even doubt that it happened.  When she does actually say it out loud to someone, Jared, he immediately gives an alternate explanation despite not being there and dismisses her concerns.  This is pretty typical of people to wonder if the victim isn't perhaps 'reading it wrong' with the result being the victim hesitates to report for fear of not being believed or it injects some more self doubt.

Then comes the abuse/praise cycle (truncated here because it is only one episode) .  But after feeling her up and making her uncomfortable where she shies away, he backs off and praises her professional skills lavishly, making her forget her unease and feel gratified in the praise.  When he harasses again, she confronts him, he deflects and threatens retaliation. This is why a lot of women who have been harrassed still maintain relationships with their harassers.  They are kept off balance by the abuse/praise cycle and employ a variety of methods of appeasement to stave off retaliation.

Claire's comment about not wanting to go to HR and make the complaint and her fear of being labeled difficult and not being believed have a higher probability because of her gender and her complexion are very real (data based) concerns. 

So yea, this episode hit all the right points in a remarkably smart fashion without feeling too 'special episode' abut it all.  I am real curious to see what the final fall out of this is.  Did she get a chance to present her issues with handsy doc? 

It sucks that Charming Doc was a creepy harrasser because the actor is pretty damned easy on the eyes.  Sigh.  Also what is up with harassers and massages?  I swear all the accounts we've been hearing about in the news recently all include the perv asking for or promising a massage.

I liked the smallish scene between Shaun and the custodial guy.  But "Would you be happy if you died tomorrow" said by a strange guy to you in a closet where you are alone while he is holding a mop with a long handle, would make me start looking for an exit.

Looking back on the pilot where I didn't like many people and hated the romantic relationships, I have to say here at midseason I pretty much like almost everyone now.  But still hate the relationships.  Jared and Claire do nothing for me as a couple.  Also Melendez and Jessica are even worse, they have zilch chemistry.  She definitely is the least interesting of all the characters.  Maybe it is because she has very little to do and the actress just doesn't infuse her with a lot of personality.

Man Freddie Highmore is soooo good as Shaun.  That last scene with Schiff was felt so real.  The way Freddie has Shaun hold his body in odd angles and his lack of eye contact is simply full body acting.  He doesn't even look like the the same guy who was Norman Bates.   Excellent job.

[Annber03]

3 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I liked the smallish scene between Shaun and the custodial guy.  But "Would you be happy if you died tomorrow" said by a strange guy to you in a closet where you are alone while he is holding a mop with a long handle, would make me start looking for an exit.

Haha, I thought the same thing :p. I also chuckled when the guy was like, "I've got pictures of my kids if you want to see them" and Shaun was just like, "No." 

His response to Shaun's questions was really lovely, though. I'd be cool with seeing him randomly pop up every great once in a while or something. 

Quote

Man Freddie Highmore is soooo good as Shaun.  That last scene with Schiff was felt so real.  The way Freddie has Shaun hold his body in odd angles and his lack of eye contact is simply full body acting.  He doesn't even look like the the same guy who was Norman Bates.   Excellent job.

Agreed. He's such a good actor, and deserves as much recognition as possible. 

[AriAu]

This was wayyyy too "soap opera..ie" for me.

I don't care about the relationship between Menendez and Jessica and she is such a bad actress that it is really hard to read anything in what she is doing...and hiss blank stare tells me he isn't much better.

The ripped from the headlines was not that well done, but I do like the twist that the patient heard it all and seems not only willing, but anxious to be a witness on her behalf. Still, not what I would have expected from this show.

And, why the hell did Toby (i.e. Glassman) try to grab Shaun-I know very little about autism, but even I know that grabbing someone with that condition is a bad, bad, bad idea.

All that being said, I echo the comments about Freddie Highmore being a very good actor since I truly do forget that he does not have this condition.

and as for making therapy a condition of employment, there are a whole ton of legal issues such that most employers would avoid it...but then again, they would avoid hiring a doctor with autism.

[Fable]

That was a lot to digest.  I didn’t like the cliffhangers either, but TV being what it is, they were not a surprise.   It’s obvious Dr. Glassman cares a great deal for Shaun, and I am heartbroken about the turn in Shaun’s relationship with him but curious to see where it goes from here.  Claire cannot catch a break can she?  I hope we don’t lose Jared because I’ve really started to like him.  I don’t care about Melendez and Jessica at all.  All TV shows must have their drama, but messy romances are not really my cup of tea. 

[rmontro]

It was very obvious Shaun did not want to see that therapist, and was very stressed out about it.  I think it was clearly wrong for Dr. Glassman to push him as hard as he did, he practically grabbed him by the hand and tried to drag him there.  This after telling him that he could make his own choices.  I know he thought he was doing what was best for Shaun, but I didn't care for his behavior at all, not at all.

I'm also glad to see they didn't sugarcoat autism when they had Shaun slap Glassman.  Certainly not all autistic people are violent, but many people with autism are prone to violent outbursts if they are triggered in a certain way.  They get overwhelmed easily and lash out.  Again, not everybody, but it is a fairly common problem.

[chocolatine]

21 hours ago, possibilities said:

Many so-called allies get freaked out when their proteges start to not need them anymore. It's like they liked being the heroic savior, and don't want to see the other person out grow them, so they undermine them and provoke a crisis in order to get back in charge. It's sickening, but I've seen it happen.

I had a completely different take on Glassman's motives. Being the only support system for a special needs person, and knowing that they won't have anyone else when you're gone, is a huge emotional burden. Glassman is not a young man, and he wants to make sure that Shaun has other people in his life whom he trusts and who can provide support when he needs it. He went about it the wrong way - he should have backed off the subject of the therapist, given Shaun some time to cool off, then tried a different approach to expand his support system - but I believe that his intentions were in Shaun's best interest.

On 12/4/2017 at 11:38 PM, Amethyst said:

I do remember Jessica hedging around the topic when she was in bed with Melendez a few weeks ago.  I just think this recent discussion with her father really confirmed it for Jessica that she doesn't want kids.  

Your comment made me think about the dinner scene again, and I think it may have been Melendez rather than her father who cemented it for her. When her father said that she couldn't possibly work and raise children, Melendez said "I'm sure Jessica can be both a great lawyer and a great mother." It sounded like a compliment, but the undertone was that he expected that only Jessica would have to juggle career and parenting, not him. If Jessica was already ambivalent, I can see how that off-hand remark would affect her.

Edited December 6, 2017 by chocolatine

[jhlipton]

On 12/4/2017 at 8:11 PM, Amethyst said:

Can Claire use the testimony of her patient to confirm that Coyle harassed her, and to help get Kalu reinstated? 

Yes and no.  Just because Coyle harassed her doesn't give Jared grounds to assault him.  Two seperate issues.

On 12/4/2017 at 10:34 PM, Bobbin said:

Claire and Shaun struggling to get the same message across:  no means no! As for Jared's actions, males are wired to be defenders and problem-solvers -- cut the guy some slack.

19 hours ago, vibeology said:

I like both of these characters but they both did things that were wrong. They should get called out.

What @vibeology said.  Excusing Jared's behavior as "boys will be boys" only reinforces bad behavior.

 

16 hours ago, possibilities said:

I also suspect that there are other women on staff who have been harassed. These guys never do that stuff just once, or to just one person. So once there's momentum, Claire might get support internally as well. It's very hard to get these kinds of things dealt with, because without witnesses the organization can try to minimize it just like Jared did.

It turns into a Catch-22.  If one woman reports a problem, she isn't believed unless there's a witness, so those without a witness don't feel they have the "power" to call out a predator.  Once one woman is believed, any others who were harassed can't do so without being accused of having predatory motives.  We see this played out over and over, but it's still always the women's fault.

13 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I suspect some guilt over how he causally dismissed her original complaints.

I suspect a lot of his anger came from just that.

[sigmaforce86]

Jessica and her Dad:  I could use a lot of names for him but it sums up as "he's an ass".  I have no patience for people like that at all; especially when he reduced her career to paper pushing that should just be dropped because poor women can't have kids and work too.  So in my head the scene went:  Jessica asks her Dad for his phone, he gives it to her and she presses buttons for a minute but doesn't make a call.  She hands it back to him and says "There, I deleted my contact info and Neil's, no need for you to re-enter it, don't talk to me again.  Let's go Neil"  And they both walk out.

Hoping that spin class patient talks to Jessica or the hospital administration about what she heard.  I think as a patient she'd have a valid complaint about the Doctor and how he acted in her room even if he wasn't talking to her and they thought she was asleep.  That can only help Claire's case but I don't know how they're going to get Jared back unless taking down the other Doctor means they can turn Jared's firing into a temporary suspension.

Shaun definitely went home; between hugging his plastic scalpel, taking the picture of his brother and telling Dr. Glassman "you're not my father" I think it was well telegraphed that's where he'd go.

And a million likes to Freddie Highmore for that final meltdown - my godson has a chromosome disorder that causes both physical and mental issues including autistic tendencies; and everything Freddie did in that final confrontation with Glassman from the initial agitation to hitting himself was spot on and really well done.  

[MakeMeLaugh]

On 12/4/2017 at 10:21 PM, chocolatine said:

As soon as Jared touched Eric Winter, I knew he was done for. Guys like Eric Winter know how to play the system to their advantage.

I could so relate to Claire. I was in a similar situation once and did report the harassment/discrimination. I was treated like shit by HR until I got a senior executive (who happened to be male) to speak up on my behalf. Even though the situation was resolved in my favor eventually, I wasn't able to shake the reputation of being "difficult" after that; I ended up leaving less than a year later. Harassment is insidious that way.

I also felt terrible for Shaun. My brother is autistic, and I've learned a long time ago that when he says no to something, insisting only makes things worse. Glassman should have shelved the idea of a therapist after the first time Shaun spent the night in the broom closet.

Anything to do with Jessica and Melendez as a couple leaves me completely cold. They're the kind of couple that looks good on paper, but I'm not seeing a great love or commitment between them. And shouldn't the conversation about children have come up long before the engagement?

So much good in your post--re my bolding (and so sorry you had to go through that): Show could have taken Claire's harassment storyline in two ways--she could interact with the offender on her own as women often did and do to avoid the "difficult" reputation (too late for that option, I think) or she could report it and we can follow what happens to her and to the offender after that. I will be so pissed if the storyline was used simply to create a plausible reason for Jared to get fired. Which actually is sort of sexist, making it all about him and the offender and not about Claire. 

I agree with others that Claire has had everything dumped on her. The harassment plot might have been more interesting if a different woman had been involved. But then it wouldn't have been the excuse for Jared leaving the show.

[mookster]

I genuinely like this show and love Freddie Highmore's depiction of Shaun, but the show as a whole does puzzle me. This episode was both beautifully written and ham-handed.

Jessica and Melendez: Throughout her life, her father watches her grow, supports her, watches her achieve academically, go through law school and ascend to a position of power - and then dismisses her career as "pushing papers"? I don't buy it. If we'd had a little backstory, but to see him acting like an over-the-top ass the first time we see him is lazy writing. And their big surprise over Jessica's not wanting kids? Really? Now?

Glassman and Shaun: Glassman has helped Shaun recover from his tragic beginnings and then treats him the way he does? Forcing him into therapy, grabbing him physically? He's not that stupid. Again, lazy writing. We could have seen Glassman back off a bit or give a reason for acting so irrationally, but no, we get big drama scene. Maybe Shaun goes down the hall to hide out with Leah? I'm not pushing for a relationship, but she's the only one outside the hospital he's learned to trust and might make sense.

I love Claire and thought she handled the predator well, but they've really got to find a new whipping girl. She's been subjected to a lot of crap these past few weeks. I get her quasi-boyfriend's reaction. Unfortunately, a lot of men - including Mr. Mookster - react that way without thinking. But it's a TV drama, so I guess we need some of that. But wouldn't it have been more interesting to have him go to the doctor and tell him that Claire was going to report him and he would corroborate her story, along with the patient? Would be nice to see some evolved characters. 

It may be asking too much, but the gamer should have known that Shaun wasn't equipped to process his "advice." 

Yet, still I like the show....

[SnarkyTart]

20 hours ago, Fable said:

That was a lot to digest.  I didn’t like the cliffhangers either, but TV being what it is, they were not a surprise.   It’s obvious Dr. Glassman cares a great deal for Shaun, and I am heartbroken about the turn in Shaun’s relationship with him but curious to see where it goes from here.  

I have such mixed feelings about this episode, and for the same reasons you said, that it's taken me a minute to post about it.  What happened between Shaun and Glassman was organic enough, erupting as a logical consequence of what's been going on in their relationship for the past several episodes.  But, I think I would have been less unhappy about it if it hadn't been a mid-season cliffhanger.  I really like this show LOTS, and would prefer not to spend the next several weeks feeling sad about it. 

I was left with a lingering question about the whole Dr. Creepy/Coyle, Jared and Claire storyline.  In the patient's room when Claire confronted Coyle about his behavior being inappropriate, he responded with something like, paraphrasing, "C'mon, I know who you are.  I heard all about Dr. Kalu banging you in the store room..."  So, who told Dr. Creepy about Claire and Jared?  The only scene we've been shown of Claire and Jared "together" at work was in the first episode.  Someone, can't remember who, came in to the break room to wake Jared up. Claire was hidden under the covers but wasn't seen by the guy.  Apparently Claire and Jared were indiscreet enough to have been caught together by someone, and that someone is a big destructive office gossip.  That's the only way Dr. Creepy would have heard all about it.  It would be good to know who is the teller of tales, and should never be trusted. 

Anyway, I hope Shaun is at Leah's apartment sorting things out with a friend, rather than alone at his old shack having a break down. 

Edited December 6, 2017 by SnarkyTart

[Biznass]

Hello. 

New guy here. 

My wife and I are looking for a song in episode 10. 

 When they start talking to Bobby about his cancer. 

 The song in the background at 17:54  into the episode.  Right after Shawn says previous diagnosis isn’t shameful. 

 You can really hear the melody after Bobby says “what he said”. 

 We heard this particular song while on vacation last summer and have been looking for it ever since. 

 Any help would be greatly appreciated. 

Thanks. 

[Pink-n-Green]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 8:47 AM, deaja said:

First of all, the cliffhanger doesn't work for me at all.  There is no suspense to "will Shaun come back?!"  The show is about him.  He's the main character.  Of course he isn't going to be written out after 10 episodes.

Second, the other "cliffhanger?"  I don't care about Melendez and Jessica at all.  I certainly don't care about whether or not they plan on having kids.  And while Melendez is one of my favorite characters on the show, I think he was a total jerk to her dad.  

Claire keeps getting dumped on.  Jared will probably be back, but honestly, he deserved to be fired.  

All that being said, I overall liked the episode - Shaun's slow burn to a breakdown, the athlete patient of the week, etc.

To me, the cliffhanger is that I think we're going to learn Dr. Glassman's backstory and more about Shaun's past when the season starts up again next month.  Shaun's fleeing back to Wyoming (Wyoming, right?  I remember it's one of those big, square states) is the perfect vehicle to bring all of that stuff the forefront and I for one am very excited about that!

I don't care about Melendez and Jessica either.  I figured trouble was ahead a few episodes ago when Jessica said something about places they could get married and Melendez mentioned marrying in a church.  If this show lasts long enough, I predict that Claire and Melendez will end up together.

Freddie acted the heck out of those "breakdown" scenes.  He has always been a really underrated performer; hopefully he'll be recognized when award season rolls around.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, SnarkyTart said:

I was left with a lingering question about the whole Dr. Creepy/Coyle, Jared and Claire storyline.  In the patient's room when Claire confronted Coyle about his behavior being inappropriate, he responded with something like, paraphrasing, "C'mon, I know who you are.  I heard all about Dr. Kalu banging you in the store room..."  So, who told Dr. Creepy about Claire and Jared?  The only scene we've been shown of Claire and Jared "together" at work was in the first episode.  Someone, can't remember who, came in to the break room to wake Jared up. Claire was hidden under the covers but wasn't seen by the guy.  Apparently Claire and Jared were indiscreet enough to have been caught together by someone, and that someone is a big destructive office gossip.  That's the only way Dr. Creepy would have heard all about it.  It would be good to know who is the teller of tales, and should never be trusted. 

That's a really good question. I can't see any of the core group going around gossiping and blabbing about that, so maybe it's somebody from elsewhere in the hospital that we haven't even met yet. Hopefully we'll get the answer to that.

21 minutes ago, Pink-n-Green said:

To me, the cliffhanger is that I think we're going to learn Dr. Glassman's backstory and more about Shaun's past when the season starts up again next month.  Shaun's fleeing back to Wyoming (Wyoming, right?  I remember it's one of those big, square states) is the perfect vehicle to bring all of that stuff the forefront and I for one am very excited about that!

LOL, yep, it's Wyoming. They've mentioned him having lived in Casper. 

And yeah, if he's willing to go so far as to leave California and trek all the way back to Wyoming, that's definitely ripe for story potential. It'd be very interesting to see what he thinks of his old hometown now, having been away from it for a bit, and how his return home would impact his eventual decision to return to San Jose. 

Quote

Freddie acted the heck out of those "breakdown" scenes.  He has always been a really underrated performer; hopefully he'll be recognized when award season rolls around.

Seconded.

I did see online today that he got nominated for a Critics' Choice Award for his work on "Bates Motel", so yay for that :). 

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Annber03 said:

It'd be very interesting to see what he thinks of his old hometown now, having been away from it for a bit, and how his return home would impact his eventual decision to return to San Jose. 

But surely this isn't the first time he's been away from his hometown? He must have gone away for college and med school. That town (village?) didn't look like it was anywhere close to a university.

[Long Days Night]

9 hours ago, mookster said:

Glassman and Shaun: Glassman has helped Shaun recover from his tragic beginnings and then treats him the way he does? Forcing him into therapy, grabbing him physically? He's not that stupid. Again, lazy writing. We could have seen Glassman back off a bit or give a reason for acting so irrationally, but no, we get big drama scene. Maybe Shaun goes down the hall to hide out with Leah? I'm not pushing for a relationship, but she's the only one outside the hospital he's learned to trust and might make sense.

I think we are likely to find out that Glassman is dealing with some kind of very bad health diagnosis. He fears that in a very short time he will no longer be there for Shaun, so he is trying to equip Shaun with the skills to survive with him no longer there to act as support system. During one of their confrontations (in the cleaning closet), Glassman was getting pretty heated when he suddenly stopped, was silent for several seconds, and then abruptly left, saying they'd pick up the conversation later. I expect he was feeling symptoms (heart probably, so Melendez can operate on him and miraculously save him).

[chocolatine]

18 minutes ago, Long Days Night said:

During one of their confrontations (in the cleaning closet), Glassman was getting pretty heated when he suddenly stopped, was silent for several seconds, and then abruptly left, saying they'd pick up the conversation later. I expect he was feeling symptoms (heart probably, so Melendez can operate on him and miraculously save him).

No, he stopped because in the middle of his own sentence - about making a sacrifice - he had a eureka moment about how to operate on the gamer's brain tumor - by "sacrificing" some of his healthy brain tissue. Hence the title of the episode.

BTW, I call BS that that option wasn't being considered all along, but that's what the show wants us to believe.

[rhys]

Shaun wouldn't have taken his clothes if he just went down the hall to Lea's, I don't think.

[MakeMeLaugh]

One of the docs late in the episode I think said to Dr Glassman something like he couldn’t believe that the gamer hadn’t had follow up check-ups after his first surgery and Dr G said something like he could believe it, who wants to be reminded every three months that you could be dying. It was sort of a throwaway scene but I wonder If Dr G has a condition that he’s trying to wait on as long as possible but that makes him want to get Shaun some resources in place other than just himself.

And do we know if Shaun’s mother is still in the picture or alive? Perhaps abusive father is gone and he could go back to see her?

Edited December 7, 2017 by MakeMeLaugh

[JenMcSnark]

On 12/4/2017 at 11:00 PM, Manda317 said:

From what I remember in that scene it also appeared she was not as in to the idea of children as he was. She was saying there was no reason to have a biological child when you could adopt, and it was very obvious he wanted biological children. It was obvious that she had no interest in pregnancy, but she didn't say that she didn't want a family at all. Especially after tonight, you can tell that she has a difficult time asserting what she wants.

I was sad that he lost his job too. I hope it turns out that he only gets a suspension after more information comes to light. We don't know what story that guy told, so hopefully Claire cleared up what happened and the patient confirms if the jerk tries to say that she is making it up to save her boyfriend. Jared deserves to suffer consequences because he didn't handle the situation well, but I don't think he should be fired. He really is a good doctor.

I'm bored and already suffering Good Doctor withdrawal so I watched the older episode again.  I agree that she seems less enamored with the idea that having your own biological child is in any way better than adoption.  

Melendez:  "You want children right?  I mean, we've talked about this before." 

Jessica: "Yes, I want children."

Melendez:  "But our children.  From you getting pregnant."

Jessica: "Yes."  Then she pauses and says "But what if that didn't happen.  Or if I couldn't get pregnant.  Or if I decided I didn't want to...that I want to adopt instead." 

Melendez:  "Is there something you're not telling me?" 

Jessica "Actually there is.  When we're in meetings together, don't ever call my ideas ridiculous."

Melendez:  "Come on, I'm being serious!"

Jessica:  "So am I."

And Melendez apologizes. 

So I don't think she has a problem being assertive.  She's a lawyer after all.  I do agree with the poster up thread who said her dad probably cemented this feeling in her at dinner, but would add that maybe Neil's attitude didn't help.  I don't really think he said anything backhanded or wrong, but I do think that watching her father and her future husband argue and then hear her future husband defending her future as a working mother may have caused the realization that she really didn't want to have kids.  Of any sort.  

But yeah, although I really love Melendez now, I could do without Jessica.  The actress just isn't that compelling. 

[Manda317]

1 hour ago, rhys said:

Shaun wouldn't have taken his clothes if he just went down the hall to Lea's, I don't think.

I definitely think his intention was to run away, but I think Lea or someone else may find him on the way. I wonder if he may be scared that he doesn't have a job anymore due to his breakdown, and that is what is causing him to try to run out of town instead of just hiding somewhere. I feel so bad for him right now, and I hope that Lea does find him and help calm him down. It's sad to think of him so upset and alone.

[Ms Lark]

On 12/5/2017 at 4:15 PM, thuganomics85 said:

Jason Mendoza!  Was pretty cool seeing Manny Jacinto in another role, and while he started out as a more Jason-like character (albeit more successful and slightly more intentionally insightful), I did like how he ended up getting to do some different stuff at the end, and I thought Manny was good. 

Yes, I love, love, love Manny Jacinto on The Good Place and now he's seeing The Good Doctor. Good stuff. (ha.ha.) I think it's funny that he plays these stoner/bro doofus types and he actually has an Engineering degree IRL! Props. Just throwing that one out there for the fans.

My theory on why Shaun is going off about not having a therapist, aside from him wanting to make his own decisions, is that he had a bad or very bad, abusive experience with a therapist in the past and that is triggering him.

[TwirlyGirly]

On ‎12‎/‎5‎/‎2017 at 1:10 PM, possibilities said:

<snip> Many so-called allies get freaked out when their proteges start to not need them anymore. It's like they liked being the heroic savior, and don't want to see the other person out grow them, so they undermine them and provoke a crisis in order to get back in charge. It's sickening, but I've seen it happen. <snip>

I've been physically disabled since birth. I have a collagen disorder, and use a manual wheelchair for mobility. I'm also short-statured. But, I have no cognitive or intellectual disabilities.

I remember as a teenager my mother mentioning how strange it was I always seemed to attract people who had "problems." She was right. It took me decades to figure out why this is.

First of all, the general perception of people with visible physical disabilities by able-bodied folks is we are dependent upon others. The other issue is the "better dead than disabled" trope that is so very prevalent (and perpetuated by the entertainment industry: see "Million Dollar Baby" and "Me Before You").

Able-bodied people who have serious issues often see people with disabilities as the only group of people they can feel "better than". "At least I'm not as bad off as that poor woman in a wheelchair!"

People who have problems like to befriend people like me, and DO things for us (generally based on the assumption we NEED their help - not because they were asked for help). The more they can insert themselves into our lives, the better they feel about themselves. As time goes on, they try harder and harder to "manage" our lives - often taking on a "mothering" role.

The problem comes when they begin to realize the person with a disability may be more independent, and more capable of managing their lives without their help then they are at managing their own. That's when they often double-down and create situations/crises to prove to themselves 1) the person with a disability really does need them, and 2) the person with a disability is incapable of making their own decisions/managing their lives. The  alternative is to consciously admit to themselves there are members of this group they've always believed they are "better than" who are actually more independent, and more successful, at life than they are - despite whatever disabilities they may have. So, they have considerable motivation to keep it going, if they can.

This has happened to me multiple times throughout my life, with various people - until I figured out why it was happening (the motivations driving these people to treat me the way they did) and "cleaned house", so to speak. Part of that clean-up effort resulted in me cutting ties with someone I had known since we were 4 years old, after she did something which put both my daughter and me at physical risk. Even though I carefully explained to her exactly why we could no longer be friends, she still tried to contact me occasionally (until I managed to block her in every possible way). Now she tries through other people. In conversations with others, she refers to the incident as a "little tiff." In other words, years later she still refuses to acknowledge how seriously she crossed boundaries, over and over again, in our relationship.

Now I'm able to figure out people's motivations very quickly, and have managed not to get involved in those types of relationships for several years now. But I encounter those kinds of people all the time.

Edited December 7, 2017 by TwirlyGirly