S03.E09: Beebo The God Of War

[KirkB]

Time Bureau: So, explain this to us again, Captain Lance. How was the space-time continuum damaged?

Sara: Well, see, it started when the Waverider ran out of booze...

[UNOSEZ]

Great.. Now jax is gone for good... Its been confirmed.... Booo and replaced by a smart mouth cocky white dude (albeit an awesome character) 

[Lantern7]

5 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

So Sara went to the Upside Down, then said that's the not first alternate dimension she's been too. What other dimensions has she been in? The Nazi Earth was another Earth not another dimension. 

Does the Doom timeline count?

17 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

Will Jax be hanging out with Wally now?  Hopefully he'll get the Rip treatment from season 2 and come back after a few episodes.

That's where my mind went as well. Last year, I took the absence of James Olsen and Thea Queen from their respective series as a sign that they were having an clandestine, interdimenional fling.

[immortalfrieza]

16 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

John Constantine is responsible for getting Sara back so I will always love him for that. He's an occult detective that knows magic so he'd be helpful against the Darkh's.  I loved that Mick is calling him Rip in trench coat. 

I actually thought he was Rip when he first showed up, since Rip Hunter wore basically the same outfit in the first season and wearing it again would be appropriate for a guy on the lamb.

5 hours ago, Lantern7 said:

Constantine? Whatever. If there was a huge appeal, the character would still have a series. Sorry for the negativity . . . I just think that he is a character no TV series or movie will get "right."

It was pretty popular and they're bringing it back as an animated version, it just ended up getting screwed by the network and cancelled like a lot of really good shows.

[Sakura12]

1 hour ago, UNOSEZ said:

Great.. Now jax is gone for good... Its been confirmed.... Booo and replaced by a smart mouth cocky white dude (albeit an awesome character) 

Constantine is only staying for 1 episode so I wouldn't call him a replacement. 

[johntfs]

17 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

John Constantine is responsible for getting Sara back so I will always love him for that. He's an occult detective that knows magic so he'd be helpful against the Darkh's.  I loved that Mick is calling him Rip in trench coat. 

See the best thing about this is that Mick has no fucking idea.  Depending on how far they let it go, John Constantine can be way scarier than the Darkhs.  The Darkhs are pretty obviously the Bad Guys.  You'll see them coming.  Constantine is funny, charming and utterly willing to do whatever he thinks he needs to do to accomplish whatever result he thinks he needs to accomplish.  If exorcising the demon from the little girls means calling up another demon and having it drag Ray to Hell, he'll do it.

[Sakura12]

1 minute ago, johntfs said:

See the best thing about this is that Mick has no fucking idea.  Depending on how far they let it go, John Constantine can be way scarier than the Darkhs.  The Darkhs are pretty obviously the Bad Guys.  You'll see them coming.  Constantine is funny, charming and utterly willing to do whatever he thinks he needs to do to accomplish whatever result he thinks he needs to accomplish.  If exorcising the demon from the little girls means calling up another demon and having it drag Ray to Hell, he'll do it.

It's a good thing Sara's there. She would never let that happen. She also would do whatever it takes to protect her team. 

[johntfs]

2 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It's a good thing Sara's there. She would never let that happen. She also would do whatever it takes to protect her team. 

Sure, but the thing with Constantine is that unlike the Darkhs or Grodd  or whoever, you really don't seem him coming.  He talks a good, convincing patter that has you convinced that everything's going to work out right up to the point the Pit opens up under your feet and you're dragged down screaming.

[Sakura12]

I think it also depends on how well Sara and Constantine know each other, they seemed to know each other better than just that one time he saved her soul. So she might know that about him and be prepared for it.

Plus Sara will fight to death, then come back and keep fighting. 

[Princess Lucky]

First things first: the fact Neal McDonough can slap on that wig and utter those lines and do it with a mostly straight face, and not come off as ridiculous, is a true testament to his talent. I love having him back and I love the amount of him we're getting. Not too much, not too little. Just enough for him to still be an enjoyable presence. And with Constantine appearing, Demian and all his magical gifts certainly fit in. I totally agree that I don't want the show to focus too much on magic, but I'd be fine with a small arc lasting a few episodes. As long as we get back to basics later on.

18 hours ago, Maelstrom said:

Amaya and Nate’s sneaking poses when everyone looked over was something straight out of a cartoon, in a good way. And Ray as Beebo might just have won the episode. “Jesus is the one true god but science and religion are still real! And so is global warming!” Ray is just a delight. Also, he made a pretty damn good Viking. All of them did, really.......

 

18 hours ago, Lugal said:

The high point was Ray as Beebo, lecturing on science and global warming, and Sara's montage of plans, even the ones that ended in her death.  Also Amaya and Nate getting caught in the middle of their sneaking pose.  I think I'm even warming to Ava too.

Agreed x1000. Amaya and Nate, both their poses and their lines, had me rewinding that moment several times. Amaya's face when she guiltily whispered "I accidentally squeezed him?" Maisie is so good. And Ray as Beebo? I thought they somehow crafted a remote-controlled Beebo, Ray didn't even cross my mind. When they showed him inside the thing I lost it.

I am officially in love with Ava. I think it's the actress. She is so appealing (and not just in her Viking get-up). From the start, I thought she brought an underlying fire to a seemingly uptight character, and some vulnerability too (we saw she was upset by Rip's actions and fate), so when she got to literally let her hair down and join up with the team, it felt earned. And the sweet way she told Sara "you needed me"? Not to mention, Sara's, like, entire face lighting up every time they interacted? I ship it 100%.

I can't believe we're losing Jax too. I was not prepared, and I shed a little tear for him. I will miss him, and the dynamics he shared with the rest of the team, especially Sara. But also, it'll be less bittersweet. There will be no Firestorm, no Stein replacement, and I guess that's respectful. I just hope Franz was the one who wanted to leave. I did love his second goodbye with Stein. The actor who played Young Stein did a lovely job echoing some of Victor Garber's gravitas and sweetness. And his going away/Xmas party was lovely. I hope we see him again someday.

Zari continues to be a great addition to the show, but she also contibnues to question Sara's authority as well as the general rules of time travel, so I'm expecting that storyline to come to a head at some point. I like how they're planting the seeds over the course of several episodes and playing the long game. Zari seems to fit in almost too well, but deep down she hasn't fully embraced what it means to be a Legend.

Also, Nate continues to be the comic relief (the Stein puppet, "he's so damn huggable," the Demian quip) without actually screwing things up, so I fully like him again. I even liked his little shared look with Amaya. It felt mature. It was a nice enough acknowledgment of their previous relationship, without any of the drama. Keep it up, show!

11 hours ago, Mellowyellow said:

ADORED the Leo and Mick conflict/issues. It was such a great way to build on the Heatwave/Captain Cold relationship and show us how much it meant without being hamfisted. LoT shows you and makes you feel things, other shows beat you on the head with it hoping you will give up and submit to what they are selling you! 

Yep. An overly talkative and emotion-sharing Leo was everything, and his admission that he was looking to alleviate his own loss (that of "Micky") was sweet. Made better only by Mick's responding growl, of course. WM and DP always manage to bring so much emotion to their scenes, you can really feel the camaraderie they share.

This episode managed to combine a pretty hilarious "main" plot (the Vikings and Demian) with a few fun teasers for the rest of the season (Mallus, Rip's imprisonment, Constantine), and a lot of much needed character work (Sara and Ava, Jax and Stein, Leo and Mick, Jax and Sara/the team), and they did it in an impressively coherent way. Kudos.

February, huh? I am really going to miss this show until then, but I think it'll be worth the wait.

[sweetandsour]

I rewound Ray's citing of everything that's real multiple times.  Ha!  I just wish the baby dominator had been able to take a Beebo with him as a parting gift from Earth a few episodes ago.  I wouldn't have been able to stand the cuteness.  Though I guess he has his musical dance moves as a souvenir.

[Chicago Redshirt]

21 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

A demon that knows Sara, is that confirmation that Sara was in hell after she died? Also did Sara and Constantine meet before he saved her soul. They really acted like they knew each other and she called him John. They didn't speak at all in arrow ep.

My assumption is that Mallus is a demon of some sort, and that Mallus (or one of his demon minions) is the one who knows Sara.

[srpturtle80]

Random thoughts after watching:

-No Jax, don’t go!

-I absolutely loved Beebo. I want one. Ray as Beebo was hysterical.

-The actor playing young Stein does an incredible job of mimicking VG’s speech pattern and mannerisms. It made me even more sad that elder Stein is gone. I’ll miss him.

-I loved having Captain Cold and Heatwave back together for a minute!

-Not digging Ava, she can leave any time now. 

[Miss Dee]

I'm seeing a few new names - and I love it. Welcome to Legends!

There's so much I could say about this episode. Leo with the Stein puppet was the most surreal thing I've seen in ages - it was like they got Charlie Kaufman to write the script there for a minute. I laughed harder at this episode than I do at most sitcoms. I don't need Leo to stay forever, but man, I hope he's here for a few episodes.

Purcell and Miller have the instant rapport and easy comfort of a long and happy marriage. Which, when you consider how often they've worked together, makes sense. Whoever had the brainstorm to capitalize on the Prison Break brother chemistry and cast these two way, way back on The Flash deserves the biggest raise in the Arrowverse.

The treatment of Beebo was downright inspired. Love it.

Heartbroken about Jax. But looking forward to see if Constantine is really all that.

Edited December 7, 2017 by Miss Dee
More to say.

[tennisgurl]

7 minutes ago, Miss Dee said:

I'm seeing a few new names - and I love it. Welcome to Legends!

 

I noticed that too, it sounds like, on some other boards, that some people gave it a chance after enjoying the characters in the crossover. I`m curious to know how many people came over, and what they thought. Welcome everyone! Hope you all had a great Beebo Day!

4 hours ago, Sakura12 said:

It's a good thing Sara's there. She would never let that happen. She also would do whatever it takes to protect her team. 

That could lead to an interesting conflict. Constantine is basically a good guy, but he makes VERY questionable or morally grey choices, and can get rather obsessed when it comes to defeating his enemies, so if it came down to defeating a threat or sacrificing a member of the team, he would do it. Sara, on the other hand, wouldn't sacrifice a member of her team while she still has breath in her lungs, especially so soon after losing Martin. Sara knows how to make the tough call, but she also loves her team and carries a lot of knives on her. Could lead to problems. 

[Sakura12]

We went up in the demo and viewers. I just hope the newcomers enjoyed this episode and remember to come back in February for it. 

[KirkB]

I'd feel bad for whatever demonic or dark force Constantine tried to sacrifice one of the Legends to. Imagine it sitting on its infernal throne in some dark dimension, about to enjoy its new plaything, and then there's a commotion outside. It looks to see what's going on and finds a little blonde woman plowing through its forces. And that's assuming she doesn't bring backup.

[darkestboy]

Brilliant mid season finale. Taking something like Beebo and turning it into a Norse god would've been a disaster on any other show but here, it was just another Tuesday.

I loved Ray working with Beebo as well to take about global warming and while the episode really didn't need Damien and Nora, they did work pretty well here too.

Nice to see Mallus making itself known to Sara at least and I assume that's why Constantine showed up at the end when he did too.

Snart with the puppet therapy and his scenes with Mick were fantastic. I want him to stay but I know he can't.

Nice use of younger Stein to help with the show grieving the character. A pity we're losing Jax but this was a great exit episode for him though.

Sara and Ava had some great moments here too and the latter is progressing more as a character too, which is a great thing, 9/10

[Sakura12]

I just wanted to add Furby's are terrifying.  My sister had one that would not stop talking, even after I took the batteries out it still made noises. 

[Featherhat]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I just wanted to add Furby's are terrifying.  My sister had one that would not stop talking, even after I took the batteries out it still made noises. 

I thought the same thing when I was watching the episode.

So finally got around to finishing it and I loved it. Best mid season finale of the 3 that have aired so far. Seriously, these writers make "Vikings worshiping a Furby makes them conquer America" work. How in the hell do that happen? Loved when Ava mentioned Beebo Day and quickly realised it was part of the anachronism. 

OK so they are going with Avalance, well I'm not as opposed to it as I was before this episode but it still wouldn't be my preference. 

Leo the counsellor with puppet Stein was surreal and hilarious as was everyone's reaction to it. WM and DP obviously work incredibly well together having done it for so long and Leo's confession that his misses his "Micky" was sweet and Mick's reaction was in character. I knew Nora was getting blown up when their guns crossed over from what Ray learned last season. 

Ray as Beebo was the best thing ever, except perhaps little Ray and Gumball. 

I didn't mind bringing in young Stein so soon after older Stein's death, the actor plays him really well and said exactly what older Stein would have (and basically did) tell Jax and I was balling like a baby. Sara's reaction to Jax's leaving was sad as well, she's loosing a little brother. I'm annoyed FD is leaving the show (with possible return guest spots) but the Christmas party was a good send off. 

Nate and Amaya failing to sneak Beebo away was the cutest that pairing has ever been.

It does seem like Sara knows Constantine more than from than when he restored her soul since he peaced out pretty quickly and she was still recovering/with her family. And as others have said, having Constantine show up and ask you for a favour is more terrifying than getting the worst beat down of your life or being falsely accused of murder. Can't wait to see the next episode........In Feb grrr. 

It seems LOT did benefit from the positive press a lot of the characters received in the crossover since the ratings went up, lets hope people come back in Feb. 

[Goldmoon]

I only saw Constantine on an ep of Arrow, and I was not impressed.  Just something about the character - from what little I've seen - rings so empty. 

I am not happy that FD left, but that was a good sendoff.  I never thought he was a good actor but I got used to him and he sold his grief last week and this week very well.

WHY exactly is WM leaving the DC universe?  Doesn't he enjoy it?  He hasn't been on much in the last two years, so I have trouble believing he's bored or the grind is getting him down.  I hated VG leaving, since I started watching LoT for Victor Garber, but I can believe he was getting restless since he was in every ep.

My wish is that the Ray would come back and he and Leo could stay on the Waverider forever.  Jonah Hex can join up as well.  Let's have Jonah replace Nate and all will be well!

[Sakura12]

I noticed that only Ava was affected by the anachronism, she was the one saying Beebo day and Odin's day (which he already has one every week called Wednesday). Is it because the Legends caused this to happen they are not affected by it. If that's the case then they are needed, if they are the only ones that remember the original timeline. 

[lurker22]

Could it be because they were all outside the time stream when the anachronism first happened (when young Martin was transported to the Vikings settlement)? So they weren't affected by the effects of what the Vikings did.

[johntfs]

3 hours ago, Featherhat said:

And as others have said, having Constantine show up and ask you for a favour is more terrifying than getting the worst beat down of your life or being falsely accused of murder.

It's even scarier than that.  Constantine showing up to ask for a favor is one thing, but Constantine showing up to collect on a debt?  Best wear your brown trousers for that one...

[Sakura12]

It was Oliver's favor that he was doing. Sara didn't ask for anything she was a soulless monster. 

[johntfs]

8 minutes ago, Sakura12 said:

It was Oliver's favor that he was doing. Sara didn't ask for anything she was a soulless monster. 

It was Sara's soul he saved.  She'll feel indebted based on that.  Constantine will exploit that feeling to get what he wants.  So it's still best to break out the brown trousers.

[Sakura12]

50 minutes ago, johntfs said:

It was Sara's soul he saved.  She'll feel indebted based on that.  Constantine will exploit that feeling to get what he wants.  So it's still best to break out the brown trousers.

Sara doesn't back down easy I think Constantine will see that. Even on when they were on the island, Oliver was still a bit naive while Sara will become whoever she needs to be to survive. A Russian mobster called her scary when she had no fighting skills.  I actually think they will show that Constantine has met his match with Sara, not with the magic stuff but with how far she's willing to go protect her team. They had the line in the Arrow episode he was on that if his magic didn't work they would all die because Sara would kill them. 

Edited December 7, 2017 by Sakura12

[Miss Dee]

1 hour ago, Sakura12 said:

I noticed that only Ava was affected by the anachronism, she was the one saying Beebo day and Odin's day (which he already has one every week called Wednesday). Is it because the Legends caused this to happen they are not affected by it. If that's the case then they are needed, if they are the only ones that remember the original timeline. 

I noticed this too. I wondered if it had anything to do with the same factor that's causing the anachronisms to be personally connected to the team.

[KirkB]

It's actually pretty consistent with what's come before. In past episodes changes to the timeline (like Nazi's nuking NYC) happened without any of the Legends being aware of them, finding out only because of a time quake or the book Nate happens to be reading. Ava may be part of the Time Bureau but she's also a part of the timeline, while the Legends are often in the temporal zone and outside of it.

Edited December 7, 2017 by KirkB

[DearEvette]

23 hours ago, Princess Lucky said:

Also, Nate continues to be the comic relief (..."he's so damn huggable,"

Loved his line delivery on that. Since it followed his and Amaya's guilty face, sneaking poses it was perfection.  I am giggling just thinking about it.

Edited December 7, 2017 by DearEvette

[KirkB]

Even I have to admit Nata is becoming more tolerable. I still don't particularly like him, and I think the show would do fine with him, but as long as they keep his overboard frat boy antics to a minimum and aren't forcing him and Amaya I can deal.

[Izeinwinter]

All hail the nuclear powered cruiseliner Avalance, now setting sail for all ports across time and space., She appears to have softened up considerably, I suspect this is some mixture of respect for putting a stop to Rip, and frustration that the bureau has just given up on fighting Darkh. I mean, she appears highly committed to maintaining causality. 

The next episode is named Daddy Dharkest, so most likely the little girl is his daughter, and the demon either Darkh or Mallus. 

 

..... I mean, it could also just be some random demon from hell Sara managed to make an impression ... or incision.. on while she was there.. Uhm. That might be why she is so impressively death proof. Neither hell nor heaven want anything to do with her. 

Edited December 8, 2017 by Izeinwinter

[tennisgurl]

I seriously cant stop laughing at the expression on Micks face when he was about to be sacrificed to Beebo by the Vikings. Like he was just thinking "...how did I get here? How did this become my life? This is weird, even by MY standards". 

I`m seriously thinking of randomly telling people "Happy Beebo Day" just to see if I can sniff out any other fans. Or just laugh at peoples confused expressions. 

[jhlipton]

When Snart and Mick were shooting at Nori, I thought "Don't cross the streams!", then "walk around her; her arms will get crossed up and she won't be able to block

On 12/5/2017 at 7:09 PM, bettername2come said:

My feelings on Jax aren't that strong, but he will not get kicked off the show because Victor Garber wanted out, right?

That would be sooooo wrong!

On 12/5/2017 at 7:53 PM, jmonique said:

Gotta say, Flash ditching Wally and Legends leaving Jax behind, and both shows welcoming new blonde white guys?

Not a great look for the CW.

Agreed

On 12/5/2017 at 8:28 PM, dippydee said:

The writers must love that they can put almost any two characters together in a scene and it works because the whole crew has a real sense of familiarity and togetherness.

Truth

On 12/6/2017 at 0:32 AM, thuganomics85 said:

Sleepy Hollow reunion out of nowhere, with John Noble as Mallus' voice again and Katia Winter as the female Viking.  She's no Lagertha, but at least she didn't embarrass herself, so progress?

Ugh.  She's just as much of a "Hatrack" as she ever was, while Nicole Beharie can't get work.  But I'm sure racism has nothing to do with it, right?

[Goldmoon]

Ok, wish for next year.  Leo, Jonah Hex and Abbie Mills replacing Nate, Stein, and Jax.  My dream team!  Just don't lose Mick, people!

[Princess Lucky]

13 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I`m seriously thinking of randomly telling people "Happy Beebo Day" just to see if I can sniff out any other fans. Or just laugh at peoples confused expressions. 

Same here!

On 6/12/2017 at 6:28 AM, dippydee said:

I love this cast so much. All the combinations work. Zari and Jax were cute bonding over video games, Mick and Leo were fun as they reached an understanding with the new versions of themselves. The writers must love that they can put almost any two characters together in a scene and it works because the whole crew has a real sense of familiarity and togetherness.

Absolutely agreed. That's the best part of this show, and why it doesn't get stale. The characters all have distinctive personalities so when they are mixed-and-matched (if you will) the writers have a lot to work with, and the actors are all charming and affable. I'm always looking forward to the episodes which give us "uncommon" or new pairings (like Ray/Zari or Mick/Nate or Amaya/Zari).

I just thought of something about Ava, and her softer attitude in this episode. I think it's possible she was a little shaken because Rip was in prison (when she said that, she definitely seemed upset). She's worked with him for years, she saw him as a leader, she believed in his cause, and then she had to watch as a person she admired (and probably liked as a friend) was thrown in prison because of some wild conspiracy theory which might actually be real. At this point, it's understandable that she'd be more willing to disobey the Time Bureau because, to her, Rip was the Time Bureau, and now that they turned against him she might feel resentful and rebellious. So I think her turn-around as a character makes perfect sense. Especially if you add the fact she's a little sweet on Sara (and who wouldn't be).

I think her (relative) friendliness and willingness to be part of the team was definitely because she wanted to rebel against the Time Bureau, but the fact she let her hair down was because of Sara. That's how I interpret Ava's actions in this episode.

[mac123x]

Having lived through the Tickle-Me-Elmo craze of the 90s, I found the near-riot at the Toyz-R-Me store probably the most realistic thing they ever did on this show.

 

Mallus is Rip, right?  Ava mentioned that Rip was in Time Lord Bureau prison, and Mallus told Sara something like "when I escape I'm going to blah blah you and your team"

 

Loved this episode, but one question about the attack on Darkh!Odin -- He made some kind of gesture that was innefective against Nate, and Nate snarked back at him -- Why was Darkh unable to affect him?  Do his powers only work on flesh?

[Sakura12]

I think he can't break Nate's steel neck with his magic. 

[johntfs]

4 hours ago, mac123x said:

 

Loved this episode, but one question about the attack on Darkh!Odin -- He made some kind of gesture that was innefective against Nate, and Nate snarked back at him -- Why was Darkh unable to affect him?  Do his powers only work on flesh?

Nate was in his Steel form.  So that's a human-sized male made entirely of steel.  Which means he's really fucking heavy, strong and hard to move or hold  even with Darkh's magical telekinesis.  Darkh was able to throw him, but it likely took a serious effort to do that.

[Snorfbat]

Everybody. The Legends saved Christmas.

[jhlipton]

But they declared War on BeeboDay!

[Aeryn13]

Best mid-Season Finale of the DC shows for me. They managed to pull off so much humour in the wake of a big loss to the team and it never felt tacky or inorganic. That only works on Legends since it`s always so quirky. 

Loved Beebo and the Vikings worshipping him. That little wreath they put on his head killed me. Obviously the Viking sister figured out that rubbing his tummy made him say he was hungry. Hahaha. Smart enough, though.

Darkh is campy fun on the show. Still do not like Courtney Ford`s acting as Nora. It`s all super-crazy eyes all the time. 

Young Martin was a delight and I just about died when the Arrow music came on as he was using that toy bow. 

Agent Sharpe was nicer here but I found the hair style ridiculous and really, really obvious in that "now we`re entering the love interest portion of the Season"-way. The entire attitude change, being more approachable and not being completely disdainful came out of nowhere. As did the flirtation IMO. I`m resigning myself to the outcome but not with any enthusiasm.    

 Leo with the Stein doll in the beginning? I loved Mick punching the crap out of the doll just because he hates dolls. And Nate`s reaction was funny, too. "Yes, that is the level of frustration...now do it with the doll". Him  and Ray were the the only ones really getting into it. 

Good surprise reveal of Constantine, that is exactly his style.

Now I do not quite get why Jax had to leave as well. Sure, he can no longer serve as Firestorm but other people on the ship don`t have powers either. And he is the ship`s mechanic so it`s not like he doesn`t have a purpose regardless. They could work something out on missions.     

[johntfs]

2 hours ago, Aeryn13 said:

Now I do not quite get why Jax had to leave as well.

Maybe he wasn't necessarily forced to leave, but had something come up or got some other opportunity like Garber did.  It's not like they couldn't have figured out a reason for Jax to stay, even as the Amazing Sticky Man

[jhlipton]

27 minutes ago, johntfs said:

Maybe he wasn't necessarily forced to leave, but had something come up or got some other opportunity like Garber did.  It's not like they couldn't have figured out a reason for Jax to stay, even as the Amazing Sticky Man

I really hope it was Franz's decision.  Pushing out a PoC because of a white man's path reminds me horribly of Sleepy Hollow.

[Featherhat]

His statement on twitter is rather ambiguous, could go either way. I do find it weird that they dedicated the first half of the season for the character to separating Firestorm and Jax proving to himself that he was still a hero even without powers if the intention was to ship him off after Garber left and it wasn't FD's decision. 

Spoiler

If rumours are true it may have been less to do with VG leaving and more to do with wanting to move Wally over to LOT, which is also problematic. Or they could have decided to move Wally over when FD decided to leave with VG. 

[KirkB]

They announced Garber was leaving a while back. Before the new season even started I believe. Did anyone hear Franz was leaving prior to this last episode? Because I seem to recall the story being about one half of Firestorm. Which leads me to suspect the decision was fairly recent. Whether that decision was Franz's or the show runners is the real issue.

[blackwing]

They could have easily written in the Firestorm separation if the actor was going to stay.  My feeling is that the special effects were probably too expensive.  

I love this show.  It's so much fun.  Love the historical settings, didn't care for Victor Garber so I'm thrilled he is gone, and like the rest of the cast.  This show is so much better than the mopey Arrow.

[jhlipton]

6 hours ago, Featherhat said:

 

  Hide contents

If rumours are true it may have been less to do with VG leaving and more to do with wanting to move Wally over to LOT, which is also problematic. Or they could have decided to move Wally over when FD decided to leave with VG. 

Spoiler

There is often an unspoken quota of PoC; if one is added another has to leave.  I hope that isn't happening here (and I assume that's what you find problematic, as do I).

[LJones41]

I have to say this.  I am really disappointed in how the Arrowverse producers handled the Jefferson Jackson character recently.  VERY DISAPPOINTED.  The media had reported that Victor Garber was leaving “LEGENDS OF TOMORROW” pretty soon.  And the early Season Four episodes pretty much set up for his departure.

So what happened?  Instead of Martin Stein leaving the Waverider to be with his family, he was killed in the “Crisis of Earth X” crossover.  And what really made the whole situation worse was that Jefferson Jackson also ceased to possessed the Firestorm matrix … and his character left the show in the episode following the crossover.

The Arrowverse writers had Jefferson contemplate the idea of being Firestorm alone … but apparently the producers decided not to bother.  Nor did they bother to find another partner for Jax to be Firestorm.  Instead, they took everyone by surprise by having actor Franz Drameh leave the show as a regular cast member.  They didn’t even TRY to find a way to keep Jax as a permanent member of the Legends … something they did with Martin Stein on “THE FLASH”, following the death of Ronnie Raymond.  Worse, the Arrowverse producers did not even bother to announce Drameh’s departure from the show … until AFTER this episode had aired.

I am so pissed at how Drameh’s departure went down that I don’t think I can continue watching the show without throwing something at the television screen.  This guy literally lost his job, because Victor Garber had decided to leave the show, and the franchise show runners were too lazy or uncaring to find a way to keep Jax on board as Firestorm.  I’m not saying that I will stop watching “LEGENDS OF TOMORROW”. permanently  But I don’t I will be watching when the series returns in January or February.  The whole situation just stinks to high heaven.

 

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Which leads me to suspect the decision was fairly recent. Whether that decision was Franz's or the show runners is the real issue.

 

I don't know whose decision it was.  But I've checked the IMDB page for Drameh.  He does NOT have a new project at the moment.

[UNOSEZ]

Maybe he does get replaced by Wally... Who was misused on the flash anyway... But we couldn't have two brothers??..  Is it so horrible having two young blk men in the screen at the same time?.. I mean they didn't even interact during either of the crossovers... That doesn't pass the sniff test... Guess the arrowverse is going by walking dead rules... Smh