Knightfall - General Discussion

[Meredith Quill]

Your Topic!

[formerlyfreedom]

We have a premiere date and a new trailers! News today, quoted from Deadline below...

Quote

History has slotted Wednesday, December 6 at 10 PM for the premiere of its new drama series Knightfall, from A+E Studios, Jeremy Renner’s The Combine and Midnight Radio, and has released a new trailer.

 

 

 

[rove4]

I'll be checking this one out. 

[formerlyfreedom]

A place to discuss particular episodes, arcs and moments from the show's first season. Please remember this isn't a complete catch-all topic -- check out the forum for character topics and other places for show-related talk.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Tom Cullen discusses Knightfall on Build:

[WatchrTina]

I love the show Vikings so I thought I'd give Knightfall a try.  Hated it.  Gave up 2/3rd of the way through this first episode.

The production values of the opening battle were terrible.  Nothing looked believable -- not the trajectories of the flaming missiles launched by trebuchets, not the mounted Templars mowing down their attackers by riding over them, nothing.  

And they want to posit that the holy grail was real, the Templars had it, and then they lost it at sea following the fall of Acre?  Okaaaaaay.  That alienates me.  I was raised Christian but I think the "holy grail" is a myth.

The death of that one Templar who rode off alone after seeing an orange -- well THAT seemed pointless.

Once they got to the expulsion of the Jews (and the plans to massacre them -- along with their children -- on the road) following what I assume was a staged murder by an agent provocateur posing as a Jew -- well once we got there I was done.  This is a part of history I don't want to see reenacted.

Edited December 7, 2017 by WatchrTina

[Arynm]

Is the main Templar sleeping with the Queen of France? I am terrible with faces so I wasn't sure. I am so glad the Templars rode in to save the Jews, not only because I am Jewish myself, you just can't be killing defenseless people on the road. I am sure the King will be pleased, he didn't want the Jews expelled in the first place. I like the idea of them looking for the holy grail, I love an adventure. I am going to ignore any and all historical inaccuracies.

I didn't hate it,I will stick with it for a few more episodes

[Stallion12]

Yes he is sleeping with the queen.

[Harry Potter]

This show is awesome! I watched Vikings for the first few seasons and so I know for sure this series will be just as badass but not historically accurate. I mean, it's more fun when you have adaptations! With this tv production, I liked the cgi.

Having seen many TV shows that's uses cgi like the DC TV series, this was good! Never expected it to be movie-production. 

 

I uses to read about the Crusaders when I was young.. Even playing crusader games! Ah, good memories. 

 

That charge of Templars to save the Jews was hair-raising. I was like "oh dam, what badassery", charging like the holy warriors they are. Don't mess with them! 

 

It made me laugh but also felt bad when the towns-man was making fun of the Jews and how they take their babies.. Some things never change. Jews had it rough even 2000 years ago with the Romans. Jeez. 

 

Templars are like the warriors of the U.N., and even though they have their own religion they still protect the Jews. 

 

They talked about the Mongols attacking from the east! Amazing how so far east, we hear news of them in the west back then. At least we know the timeline kinda. 

 

I wonder why the queen didn't just tell the king she overheard that shady guy plot with the bad guy to kill the Jews. Could've easily saved us from future drama from that conniving advisor. 

 

When the queen showed her face at the end.. Oh ho ho was my face like ?. Dam Templar you messing with the wrong female. That'll end badly =/ 

The discovery of the holy grail in France is going to be problematic. If the Templars want it and the King denies that then that'll be one of the few reasons the Templars are fading out. 

Overall, can't wait to see more action from these exemplary Templars. 

[shrewd.buddha]

On 12/6/2017 at 11:09 PM, WatchrTina said:

The death of that one Templar who rode off alone after seeing an orange -- well THAT seemed pointless.

Yes, that orange thing, leading to a solo ride, leading to a seemingly random attack by road bandits ... why? Was that supposed to draw us into some mystery. If so, it didn't work. 
The farmer-boy-man-husband also seemed like a odd character to focus on. Was there a point? 

Are we supposed to believe the queen of France walks about the streets of Paris like regular folk? Doubtful. 

My first thought after Racist Rabble Rouser was killed by a 'Jew' was that it was staged by the Alt Right group of the day. I'm not enjoying the racist sub-plot - or the racist anything. 

On 12/7/2017 at 0:50 AM, Arynm said:

Is the main Templar sleeping with the Queen of France?

As for the main Templar, Landry : I'm not sure I'm sympathetic to his cause.  Landry  didn't seem to have aged much in 15 years - in fact, he looked younger than he did in the battle of Acre. 
As with the racist stuff, I am quickly turned off by holier-than-thou religious hypocrites. If you don't like the rules, such as vows of celibacy, then leave and join a group whose rules you can abide by. Things might be a lot better today if all those popes, priests and templars didn't pretend to live by rules that are mostly impossible for humans to follow. 

I am undecided about sticking with this show. I did not get  the feeling that the premiere adequately established an interesting story or characters to follow. 

Edited December 12, 2017 by shrewd.buddha

[Ohwell]

I don't have anything more to add to what's already been posted, except that I'll give it one more episode before I decide if I'll continue.

[OoogleEyes]

Wow. That was the *cheesiest* CGI I have ever seen. 

I think I'd rather watch Monty Python and coconuts.

[wlk68]

I'll going to give it a couple more episodes. These shows always seem to need that long to really get rolling. I know it took that long for me to be truly hooked by both Vikings and Spartacus (RIP Andy Whitfield).

[Babalooie]

20 hours ago, WatchrTina said:

The death of that one Templar who rode off alone after seeing an orange -- well THAT seemed pointless.

I don't think it was a "one time orange".  I think it will reappear.  Just an opinion that it may be some kind of symbolic signal.

Edited December 8, 2017 by Babalooie

[Ohwell]

I think I'm going to find it hard to "root" for the protagonist, Templar Landry, who's dumb enough to be screwing the king's wife.

[magdalene]

I was expecting to be more into this considering the subject matter.  My big problem so far is that the lead actor has no charisma and that stands out to me because this show is following VIKINGS which hooked me from the first episode with the main characters, especially Ragnar.

Still, I'll give it some time to see if it gets compelling.

[wlk68]

18 hours ago, Babalooie said:

I don't think it was a "one time orange".  I think it will reappear.  Just an opinion that it may be some kind of symbolic signal.

I got that impression as well. I assumed it was a signal from someone that they needed to meet. 

[green]

On 12/7/2017 at 9:58 AM, shrewd.buddha said:

The farmer-boy-man-husband also seemed like a odd character to focus on. Was there a point? 

Are we supposed to believe the queen of France walks about the streets of Paris like regular folk? Doubtful. 

My first thought after Racist Rabble Rouser was killed by a 'Jew' was that it was staged by the Alt Right group of the day. I'm not enjoying the racist sub-plot - or the racist anything. 

As for the main Templar, Landry : I'm not sure I'm sympathetic to his cause.  Landry  didn't seem to have aged much in 15 years - in fact, he looked younger than he did in the battle of Acre. 
As with the racist stuff, I am quickly turned off by holier-than-thou religious hypocrites. If you don't like the rules, such as vows of celibacy, then leave and join a group whose rules you can abide by.  ...

 

The farmer-boy will probably join the Templars now that his true love has been killed and become "The Kid" because most paint-by-the-numbers combat shows have the beardless kid the vets all look after among the warriors.  Tired old stereotype.

Yeah the Queen of France wanders around without escort and not being recognized.  She has a condo downtown to hook up with the hypocrite Templar, Landry.  Like I'd believe that.

Don't like the character of Landry and his "lack of character" and the acting was pretty bad besides.  The special effects regards the opening battle looked like something out of a computer game from 10 years ago or longer.  Writing was really bad as well.

And riding to the rescue of the Jews at the last minute like an old 1950's western movie with John Wayne and the cavalry was totally unbelievable and silly looking.  I kept saying they won't do something that totally corny.  That is a totally ridiculous way to do this in this day and age.  But nope.  All we were missing was a guy with a bugle sounding the charge.

History Channel should NEVER have put this on right next to Vikings.  Vikings is the A game with far more historic accuracy, excellent special effects, far more interesting characters right out of the gate, way superior writing and far FAR better acting.  Vikings is the gold standard.  This isn't even the copper standard.  The comparison between the two is day to night ... or is that knight. 

And compared they will be since History Channel is setting them up together.  Maybe they should have paired this show up with Ancient Aliens.  They could do a cross over show where we find out that Ancient Aliens were behind the Holy Grail just like they were behind everything else on earth, hah.  Very disappointed by this show.

Edited December 9, 2017 by green

[Doyounot]

I wanna say its awful but maybe its because ive seen this so many times done better (game of thrones, spartacus, vikings, da vincis demons, bastard executioner, i even watched season 1 of frontier, and a few episodes of both taboo and the last kingdom). This to me is the worst of the bunch!

Frontier i had the same feeling about but there was at least one scene in the pilot of that show that made me think it was special. This so just feels sooo generic not one "special" or "different" thing about it. Ill watch season 2 of frontier before i watch episode 2 of this show.

I may watch again one day when i have nothing else and i hope to be pleasantly surprised by the increase in quality in episode 2 and beyond now that the world building (learning) part is over with.

[Haleth]

Yeah, it was not good, but I'll give it another episode before I quit.

[blackwing]

I am a sucker for anything historical.  I do think it had faults but I'll stick with it.  I watched season 1 of Frontier which I thought was a snoozefest.  I watched "Turn: Washington's Spies" despite hating a good portion of the characters.  And I stuck with "Hell on Wheels" until the main character got kidnapped by that Mormonish cult.   So it's gonna take a lot to drag me away from a historical show.   There's nothing that a hundred men or more could ever do!

The lead guy just isn't a very good actor.  I recognized him as  Lord Gillingham from "Downton Abbey" and the peasant from "World Without End".  They didn't really explain how or why he is with the Queen of France, especially since he appears to be best pals with the King.

There are definitely problems with this show but I am hoping it improves.   Loved the costumes, the sight of those white Templar tunics with the red cross was cool.

[Ohwell]

4 hours ago, blackwing said:

The lead guy just isn't a very good actor.  I recognized him as  Lord Gillingham from "Downton Abbey"

I knew I had seen him somewhere before!

All I can say is, this show is very lucky that it follows Vikings because that might be the thing that saves it from cancellation.

[OldWiseOne]

On 12/6/2017 at 9:09 PM, WatchrTina said:

And they want to posit that the holy grail was real, the Templars had it, and then they lost it at sea following the fall of Acre?  Okaaaaaay.  That alienates me.  I was raised Christian but I think the "holy grail" is a myth.

For me it's more that the Templars believed they had the grail, not so much that the grail actually existed. Or the Templars in this show anyway.

[Haleth]

After rescuing the Jews it's nice the Templars found a good dry cleaners on the way to the boy's farm. One minute they were covered in blood, the next they were spotless.  

[Lugal]

Not sure what to think about this one.  The leads are not as charismatic as Travis Fimmel or Katheryn Winnick were in Vikings.  Then again, there's the subject manner too.  On Vikings we opened with Ragnar and co. planning the season's raids and meeting Athalstan.  Knightfall opens with the big CG battle and then we go into what is pretty much a board meeting (Lord whosits paid this much, Lord whatisname is in arrears, when will the King pay us back?) The Battle of Acre was 1291 and then Landry mentions that was fifteen years ago, so that would put them at 1306, so the Templars have about a year or so.

Landry is having sexytimes with the Queen who likes to sneak around (seriously did all royals just throw on a cowl and wander among the commoners at the drop of a hat?)

The scene at the end where the Templars came riding up to save the Jews was fun, even if it was a little corny.  As for the farm boy, I figured his lady-love wouldn't survive the episode so now he'll be the neophyte.  The only female characters we have are the Queen or the Jewish girl, Adelina, who is the closest we have to a badass shieldmaiden.

When we saw the grail sinking, I remembered the possibility that the grail was actually made of wood so I expected to see it float.  That would have been a twist.

I might give it another episode or so, not sure.

[green]

This is so bad that I find I enjoy ripping it to shreds.  After my guilty pleasure (Survivor) and my two (and ONLY) true TV pleasures (Vikings and Mr Robot) winding down the night with the re-broadcast of this screwy clusterf**k of a bad show gives me a "comedy' to end the night with. 

As long as I pretend this show is all about some production company wanting to make something so bad that they will get cancelled for some devious reason a la "Springtime for Hitler" in The Producers, my blood pressure won't go through the roof in seething anger.  Just got to keep reminding myself the show is a comedy about a big historic drama epic that goes totally off the rails.

But we do need a catchy tune like in "Springtime for Hitler" with the Templers all forming a chorus line of kicking rockettes.  Enter Landry (named after famed Dallas Cowboy coach Tom Landry no doubt, he can wear a Cowboy helmet in our show) and the Queen.  They then lead the Templers and "token" Jews (only put into the show to make the Templers look good after all) around in a conga line of happy, dancing folk as the evil, over-the-top advisor fumes endlessly in the background.

[Ohwell]

I wasn't paying much attention to this dreck, but what happened to the farm boy's wife?

[UNOSEZ]

Can't say i love a main protagonist who's out there cheating with the wife of his friend.. And king of France.   Gotta say, that Matthew rhys clone playing de nogaret is fun to watch.. Hes maybe a scumbag... But maybe hes just looking out for france

[green]

This show is so bad it is even hard to make fun of.  Yeah the over-the-top-villain dude is probably the most interesting guy.  Or at least funny.  Only good moment of the show was when he opened the box and did NOT scream when he saw the head staring back at him.  He was just thinking oh well price of doing business.  Gotta figure out plan B. 

And if he wasn't evil enough he has a thing for the king's daughter.  Who didn't see that coming.  (God, the writing is so terrible).

Pope was cool in that he and villain guy are the only ones playing the game well.  But he won't hang around France past this episode to take on villain guy so villain guy will spend every episode twirling his mou ... err, "devil-like" beard and fooling the king who is as stupid as a bag of rocks.

Hate the hypocrite "hero" guy.  He is total scum.  He was thinking, "Let us go screw my king's wife instead of looking for that clue about the Holy Grail.  Oh shit, right-hand-man caught me sneaking out so now I have to do this stupid duty thing instead."

And way NOT to can a good man.  Hope the Templar guy whose leg is messed up gets his revenge on him. 

And young farmer kid ends up as "The Kid" in the war movie like I said last week.  Someone else caught that too.  All you have to do to see that coming is watch maybe two war pictures.  What terrible and trite writing.  Boy does this show look so so sooooo bad being slated on the same night as Vikings.

Why did they decide to make a series on the Templars at the end of their run?  Why not at the beginning 200 years earlier and follow them over that next 200 years as they went from a few idealistic if misguided warriors to the bloated free loaders and money grubbing power hogs they were at the end. 

In some parts of Europe by the time of this show, fathers would hide their daughters when a group of them rode into a town because they usually rounded up all the young women they could find and held forced orgies with them in the local church.  There was a reason these guys went down and went down hard. 

A group attracts the idealists first but generation after generation a successful group who rises in power and influence just attracts those who join for anything BUT ideals.  Why?  One of the oldest reasons in the book.  "Power corrupts."

Edited December 14, 2017 by green

[Ohwell]

Yup, I'm done with this stupid show.  Plus, the head Templar is a douchebag.

[blackwing]

On 12/13/2017 at 4:27 PM, Ohwell said:

I wasn't paying much attention to this dreck, but what happened to the farm boy's wife?

She was killed by the same band of marauders that killed Godfrey, the Templar leader who was trying to outrun them at the beginning of the episode.  We see her dead and lying on a hay bale with an arrow or bolt through her chest.

[blackwing]

Is De Nogaret the advisor of the pope with the funny hat?  If so, I recognise him, he was Charles Blake, yet another one of Mary Crawley's suitors from "Downton Abbey".

Whose head was in the box?  Were we supposed to know who that was?

I don't think much of the Pope, another Downton Abbey alum.  Every time I saw Mr Carson there or here I can't help but think he resembles the old man with the wide face and big pug nose from Pixar's "Up".

[Ohwell]

Ok, thanks.

[green]

3 hours ago, blackwing said:

Is De Nogaret the advisor of the pope with the funny hat?  If so, I recognise him, he was Charles Blake, yet another one of Mary Crawley's suitors from "Downton Abbey".

Whose head was in the box?  Were we supposed to know who that was?

I don't think much of the Pope, another Downton Abbey alum.  Every time I saw Mr Carson there or here I can't help but think he resembles the old man with the wide face and big pug nose from Pixar's "Up".

DeN-whoever is the king's advisor and the uber villain of the show.  He had a meeting with the Pope this episode where they dryly sparred with each other verbally.

I didn't pay much attention but I believe the head in the box was the warrior guy De-N-whoever had hired (promised a house and gold to) to kill the Pope.  He was De-N's henchman in other words.  Since the Pope wasn't assassinated it would be logical that the henchman had been killed instead anyway.  (The henchman was the same guy who lead the attack on the Jews per De-N's orders in the first episode). 

[Haleth]

That was dreadful.  I thought you all were overstating how bad it is, but it really is that terrible.

[rove4]

On ‎12‎/‎14‎/‎2017 at 9:01 AM, UNOSEZ said:

Can't say i love a main protagonist who's out there cheating with the wife of his friend.. And king of France.   Gotta say, that Matthew rhys clone playing de nogaret is fun to watch.. Hes maybe a scumbag... But maybe hes just looking out for france

In those days, royalty and members of the nobility/aristocracy didn't marry for love.  Marriages were used more to build political and/or business alliances, often with noble daughters "sold off" to the highest bidder, so to speak.  So I don't have a problem with Joan or Landry finding some small measure of happiness.  It's almost guaranteed that the King has his own stable of mistresses via the court courtesans.

[blackwing]

I'm not caring too much for the political intrigue.  I couldn't care less who the princess marries, although I know from history that Isabella becomes 

known as the She-Wolf of France and marries Edward II of England

.  

Don't really know what DeNougat is playing at either, and don't really care.

Don't care at all for "The Kid".   I would have kicked him out.

I completely missed that the Jewish girl is working undercover in the court, alongside The Kid.

I'm here for the Knights Templar.  This show needs more battles and more questing.  Everything else is extraneous.

[UNOSEZ]

I keep waiting to see how the queens life is so bad but for now shes just some lady who was cheating in her husband... All his anger stuff has been off-screen or in the past.. All hes done on screen is try... I dunno why the young jewiah girl is ripping ppl off and doesn't she know Parsifal is with landry the templar who's saved her twice?... This show is lucky for the Vikings lead in and sneaking the preview in its first comm break is pretty genius 

[Ohwell]

6 hours ago, UNOSEZ said:

This show is lucky for the Vikings lead in and sneaking the preview in its first comm break is pretty genius 

Yes, this show is very lucky to have the Vikings lead in.  I check in now and then to see if this show has gotten any better.  It hasn't.  

[crgirl412]

I have an issue watching tv shows and movies that could just as easily have portrayed history accurately but opt not to.  Accurate history is far more fascinating and worthy of the time and money spent than inaccurate history.  

[Evagirl]

I'm having a hard time telling the black-bearded guys apart.

Also, what's with a queen who hasn't slept with the king in 2 years?  I would think during that period of time he wouldn't even allow it.  He seems like a pretty decent guy and they've been together at least 16 or 17 years (the daughter).

Not loving this show so far.

Edited December 24, 2017 by Evagirl
typo

[ihartcoffee]

On 12/9/2017 at 6:06 PM, Doyounot said:

I wanna say its awful but maybe its because ive seen this so many times done better (game of thrones, spartacus, vikings, da vincis demons, bastard executioner, i even watched season 1 of frontier, and a few episodes of both taboo and the last kingdom). This to me is the worst of the bunch!

Frontier i had the same feeling about but there was at least one scene in the pilot of that show that made me think it was special. This so just feels sooo generic not one "special" or "different" thing about it. Ill watch season 2 of frontier before i watch episode 2 of this show.

I may watch again one day when i have nothing else and i hope to be pleasantly surprised by the increase in quality in episode 2 and beyond now that the world building (learning) part is over with.

We have tried so many of the same shows! I could not get into Frontier or the last kingdom.  I loved Spartacus for the cinematography. 

Knight Fall was genius to come after Vikings, but it also highlights how much better Vikings is.  I was on the edge of my seat for Vikings, this not so much. 

[Doyounot]

1 hour ago, ihartcoffee said:

We have tried so many of the same shows! I could not get into Frontier or the last kingdom.  I loved Spartacus for the cinematography. 

Knight Fall was genius to come after Vikings, but it also highlights how much better Vikings is.  I was on the edge of my seat for Vikings, this not so much. 

I also thought it was genius for knightfall to be right after vikings because they could keep all the viewers but you are right i was so excited to watch the first episode expecting the quality to be on par with vikings that this meh stuff had me so disappointed.

A few buddies of mine really like this show saying 2nd episode is better.. but they also liked the first so i donno if i can trust their opinion.

I think im gonna continue frontier its only a six episode season 2.. i can do that lol

[blackwing]

So much time spent on storylines that I just couldn't care less about.  Way too much time spent on the French princess.  The ugly Catalonian prince deflowered her, the queen complained and demanded more dowry, her cousin refuses, a horse is beheaded... whatever.  Don't care.

I also don't care about the Jewish girl and whatever her goal is.

Not sure what is going on with DeNacho.  He spied on the French princess and the Ugly Catalonian prince and tattled on them.   Doesn't he work for the French king?  Why would he do this?

Disappointed that Tancrede killed the Saracen. I liked that actor from Spartacus and thought he'd have a key role as the wise elder, but I guess not.

I want to see the Templars actually questing for the Grail, not just talking about it.

I'll stick with this show because I like historical shows, but if this makes it to season 2, it badly needs a new showrunner.

[wlk68]

Aaaand the orange in episode one is now explained.

[Stallion12]

Felt bad for the prince. That said I have a feeling that at acre, Godfrey betrayed them, because the dead brotherhood of lights father looked like the guy who tried to negotiate their surrender.

[rur]

I'm just starting to binge watch this show (It's cold this weekend -- don't judge me!). But I have one major question that drove me crazy through the whole episode. Why in the world didn't the queen head for the King's bed as soon as she suspected she was pregnant? I sure as heck would have started to develop a backup plan (or several) right away if I were her. 

 

ETA: OK, I got my answer in a later episode.
 

Spoiler

But, I find it absolutely unbelievable that a queen wouldn't act first to protect her life and that of her child by climbing into bed with her husband. Bad plot development, writers.

Edited January 6, 2018 by rur

[Lamima]

I guess everyone stopped watching. The show is bad. But, honestly, Vikings isn't all that either. Though good enough for me to keep watching....this crapfest (Nightfall) I won't continue.

[Lamima]

Oh, and the casting choice for Isabella...is...um...I don't want to be rude so I will just say it's not a great choice. 

[WordsWordsWords]

I'm still slogging through this show. The historical goofs are obtrusive. The acting is often clunky. The writing is always clunky. But Tom Cullen broods so broodily. :) And once in a while he takes off a piece of his clothing. Yep, that's why I'm watching. *sigh*