S03.E10: Heaven and Earth

[Athena]

Quote

Claire races to discover the source of an epidemic aboard a disease-stricken ship before hundreds of sailors die. And as Jamie locks horns with Captain Raines, Fergus finds himself torn between loyalty and love.

Reminder: This is the No Book Talk topic. No discussion of the books is allowed including saying "in the books..." Book readers are discouraged from posting and liking in this thread. Posts may be removed without warning.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Jamie can suck it for trying to guilt trip and bribe Fergus into stealing the cell keys so that he could attempt to commandeer the ship to go chasing after the Porpoise. I haven't seen enough of Fergus and Marsali's relationship to know how much they really love each other, but what I do know is that it's shitty of Jamie to tell Fergus that he doesn't really know what love is just because he didn't want to steal those keys for his half-baked plan.

And as Fergus pointed out, it would be 7 against 20, and even if they could get the whole ship behind Jamie, what would happen if they managed to catch up to the Porpoise? Attack the ship while Claire is still on it?

Awwwww, poor Elias. Just goes to show that you can make me love a character in just one episode.

[nara]

I'm glad that Fergus realized that his first loyalty is now to Marsali, not Jamie.  I hope to see him continue to assert himself in that way.

Although the death of Elias was predictable, I still cried. And I know it wasn't unusual for young boys to work on ships, but it was still heartwrenching to realize that a child was doing such hard work. 

Is it just me or does Claire seem to be closer to the young boys she meets (Fergus, Hamish, Elias, Ian) than her own daughter?  Of course, mother-daughter relationships do tend to be challenging...

So was Jamie not pardoned when he left the Dunsany family?  Of was it his subsequent printshop work that is going to get him hanged?

Glad the British captain was not fooled by the Goat Escape.  I hate it when authorities are portrayed as completely stupid.  Though I do wonder if anyone  will hear the big splash of Claire + raft jumping.

[BitterApple]

13 hours ago, ElectricBoogaloo said:

Jamie can suck it for trying to guilt trip and bribe Fergus into stealing the cell keys so that he could attempt to commandeer the ship to go chasing after the Porpoise. I haven't seen enough of Fergus and Marsali's relationship to know how much they really love each other, but what I do know is that it's shitty of Jamie to tell Fergus that he doesn't really know what love is just because he didn't want to steal those keys for his half-baked plan.

And as Fergus pointed out, it would be 7 against 20, and even if they could get the whole ship behind Jamie, what would happen if they managed to catch up to the Porpoise? Attack the ship while Claire is still on it?

Awwwww, poor Elias. Just goes to show that you can make me love a character in just one episode.

Yeah, that was a total dick move. Fergus has been nothing but loyal. Excuse him for not wanting to risk his life and his wife's life for a plan that was never going to work in a million years. The crew was already distrustful of Jaime and Co. I highly doubt Fergus could've convinced 20 sailors to overtake the ship. Not to mention, the ship can only sail so fast, so what, they catch up to the Porpoise and then overpower 300+ sailors of the British Navy to rescue Claire? Sure, why not. 

I'm also not quite sure how Claire jumping into the middle of the ocean would get her to Jamaica any faster than remaining where she was. It would've been much smarter to play the game, make it to the island and then find a way to escape and get Jaime. She's only done it a dozen times before.

[Auj]

Ugh! I can not see what is the point to all of this sea voyage stuff? Why was wee little Young Ian pressganged aboard the ship when Claire and Jamie lost him? Will there be an answer this season, if and when they ever find him?  Meanwhile guess what -Claire and Jamie are separated AGAIN. Boring. Why? So we get to see Claire being nasty and grumpy and play Doctor AGAIN. I am not finding this long string of ship crew members interesting either. None of them seem like strong characters. Who is writing this stuff anyway? Murtagh❤️, Column, Dougal, Gellis, Mrs Fitz, Rupert and Angus were good characters. Why make your lead character- Claire- into an unlikeable woman? And then do the same to Jamie-oh look- Jamie is upset Claire has been pressganged (AGAIN) to another ship. Jamie comes up with a silly hairbrained plan to rescue Claire. Jamie was never silly before. Nor was he thick. Jamie was a  farmer, a Highlander warrior, trained troops in the Rebellion, ran a wine business for his Cousin, ran a PrintShop, etc..Now Jamie is  ? continuously. Enough already.....And where is Claire and her compassion and kindness? And where are my Outlander Season One DVDs?!!

[ganesh]

43 minutes ago, BitterApple said:

I'm also not quite sure how Claire jumping into the middle of the ocean would get her to Jamaica any faster than remaining where she was. It would've been much smarter to play the game, make it to the island and then find a way to escape and get Jaime. She's only done it a dozen times before.

I don't get this plan. I guess the island hat a port on it, so she could get on another ship to Jamaica faster? She already was ahead of the ship Jamie was on anyway. I suppose this is consistent with Claire being impulsive. 

I actually liked this episode and these last two the most all season. I didn't find Claire insufferable, and I liked how she put the cook in his place. I liked Mr. Pound with his little tip of his hat to Claire all the time. I don't know if it was directed or the actor's choice. I liked the captain too. 

Now they're back to the suspense of getting there before Jamie gets arrested. I'm fine with that because I think the show is better under this narrative constraint. 

I understand the show is obviously tied to the books. I feel like they could have executed this reset a little better. 

I also totally want a crossover with Captain Jack Rackham. 

[toolazy]

She was escaping because she knew that the captain was planning to use her as bait to capture Jamie.  It wasn't because she was racing them to Jamaica.

[terrymct]

11 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I'm also not quite sure how Claire jumping into the middle of the ocean would get her to Jamaica any faster than remaining where she was. It would've been much smarter to play the game, make it to the island and then find a way to escape and get Jaime. She's only done it a dozen times before.

 

It's because this has been some really cruddy storytelling.  Start off with Young Ian and the island.  Of course there isn't a boat to use to get to the island.  He'll swim through supposedly treacherous waters, then somehow swim back carrying a wooden box full of gold and gems.  Yeah, right.  Then, of course, a ship just happens to be passing and even though it's be nearly impossible to see one young man on the island...and it's a deserted island so there's no reason to look...the ship's officers decide to send a boat to the island to grab Young Ian.  Then...the guy who was after Jamie in Edinburgh just happens to be on the ship that had the outbreak of disease that it just happens only the amazing Claire can halt.   Then...Claire is the only one who can save Jamie through a ridiculous stunt assisted by a woman who was endlessly grateful that Claire was able to determine that her husband was drunk.  The goat lady surely had seen drunk men, including her husband, before.  Surely, she would have noticed the bottle of alcohol lying in plain sight on the floor.    This is cheap and silly storytelling.  

11 hours ago, Auj said:

Jamie comes up with a silly hairbrained plan to rescue Claire. Jamie was never silly before. Nor was he thick. Jamie was a  farmer, a Highlander warrior, trained troops in the Rebellion, ran a wine business for his Cousin, ran a PrintShop, etc..Now Jamie is  ? continuously. Enough already.....

Jamie has always magically been able to come up with the exact diverse set of talents/education/experience needed for whatever situation is at hand.  That's also bad writing.  I agree that in this case, he's dumb as a box of hair (perfectly bouncy and magnificent red hair, of course) in this episode.  He's been in enough scrapes that he should have recognized that the odds are against him and tried to think of something else.

Why are Fergus and Marsali so desperate for Jamie's approval to marry?  Because he's her stepfather?  But she was just angry that Jamie tossed her mother aside once Claire reappeared?  Why would she want or need anything from him?  Shouldn't approval come from her mother in this case?

Something dawned on me this episode.  Both Claire and Jamie now both have been bigamists, so they have even more in common.  

[RulerofallIsurvey]

I really don't have much on this ep.  Too bad it wasn't Marsali that jumped off the ship.  No really.  That girl can go away any day now.  Can't stand her.  This adult Fergus is not doing much for me either.  He was much more interesting, even in the few brief glimpses we had of him, before he was 'in love'. 

I'm really upset that Mr. Pound died.  I would have liked to see him again.  And again.  Jamie and Claire could have adopted him instead of Marsali. 

I liked the goat-tending wife (I can't remember her name exactly and would probably butcher it if I tried) but I thought it was a little odd that she was so helpful to Claire and encouraging her to jump ship.  Surely, she would have known the consequences if Claire got caught since her husband being an officer, right?  (He had a uniform anyway.) 

And DAMN - that jump at the end though!  That was brave.  Or stupid.  In Real Life it would have been incredibly stupid, but since I'm pretty sure Claire survives, I guess we're supposed to think it was really, really brave of her.  "All For Love" and all that.  Meh.

I actually enjoyed the bits about treating Typhoid with 18th century methods while knowing 20th century information. 

[Juliegirlj]

Yawnnnnnnn.... I fell asleep halfway through the episode and watched the rest this morning. My biggest problem with the show is that Jamie and Claire have become unlikeable characters. I hate that they are separated but even when they were together I wasn't feeling the love between them at all!! 

Why is Jamie being so cruel and unreasonable to Fergus? Why did Claire not try and reason with the Captain? He admitted he feels in her debt for her efforts on his ship- perhaps if he heard from Claire that her husband is a good man and was offered a workable plan to look the other way while Claire and Jamie escaped?! 

None of the main characters have stayed true to their nature. So everything that made us fall in love with the characters and the show is now gone.... 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

12 hours ago, nara said:

So was Jamie not pardoned when he left the Dunsany family?  Of was it his subsequent printshop work that is going to get him hanged?

I think Jamie was pardoned (for the Rebellion) when he left the Dunsany family.  But since then, he's been printing seditious materials at the printshop - which is also enough to get him hanged - and then there's the body of the dude Claire killed that they found in the cask of Creme de menthe* whom they assume Jamie killed since he was hidden in a cask of alcohol that came from/through Jamie's illegal smuggling business.  (I'm assuming the tavern owner who bought the alcohol from him ratted him out.)

*Why they were busting open the casks and looking in them is stupid though - unless it was like the old revenuers back in the 20's since the casks didn't have the crown's seal on them, which meant that the proper taxes would not have been paid, but that was not explained and easily could have been with an extra line of dialogue. 

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, Juliegirlj said:

None of the main characters have stayed true to their nature. So everything that made us fall in love with the characters and the show is now gone.... 

I still love the show, but I totally agree with your point. Jamie's complete selfishness in this episode was so jarring and out of character. If his half-baked plan didn't work, then screw Fergus, Willoughby, the two Scots and Marsali, all of whom were innocent. Oh, and since Jaime would likely be tossed over the side of the ship, then forget about finding Ian Jr., so screw him and Jenny and Ian Sr. as well. It would've been worth it, because Claire.

Speaking of which, Jaime made reference to her being the only female among hundreds of men as one of the main factors in why she needed rescuing right away. Don't get me wrong, she's a nice looking lady, but this overarching theme of "Men Can't Control Themselves Around Claire" has become a bit tedious. If I was a guy who'd just spent weeks on a disease-ridden ship, dumping my dead friends overboard, I think sex would be the absolute last thing on my mind. I need to believe the bulk of 18th century men weren't quite as rapey as how they're being portrayed on the show.  

[taanja]

Well I liked this episode better than the last one.  But another separation between Jamie and Claire? seriously? That 20 years wasn't long enough? Is that from the books? Is that the authors choice?

I did like that young man they introduced and made me care about only to kill him in the end. That was sad and I can't even remember his name this morning! haha! but he was sweet. and young-- only 14! 

The cook looks kind of like the same cook character from Black Sails-- sort of surly and mean.

I was a little confused about how Jamie thought he was going to somehow rescue Claire? Mutiny and then he would sail like a bunny to intercept her? what? Is that how any of this works?

Clair jumping into the grey, cold water was great imagery but I don't understand her plan either. I'm feeling a little lost.

[FnkyChkn34]

7 minutes ago, taanja said:

I did like that young man they introduced and made me care about only to kill him in the end. That was sad and I can't even remember his name this morning! haha! but he was sweet. and young-- only 14! 

Elias Pound

[Bort]

1 hour ago, taanja said:

Clair jumping into the grey, cold water was great imagery but I don't understand her plan either. I'm feeling a little lost.

It’s the Caribbean, if it’s summertime and they’re close to land, the water won’t be that cold. It would almost be like bathwater, actually. 

[terrymct]

57 minutes ago, kariyaki said:

It’s the Caribbean, if it’s summertime and they’re close to land, the water won’t be that cold. It would almost be like bathwater, actually. 

 

She’s still got a bunch of clothes on that will be very heavy when wet and it was a long way to shore.   The idea of her holding on to the barrels wrapped in rope netting and kicking along to shore reminded me in a way to the ending of the movie Jaws where the sheriff and marine biologist head to shore after Brody blew up the shark.

[Swiss]

  This show has become so boring and predictable.    Same old thing...Jamie and Claire together...Jamie and Claire separated...Jamie and Claire must find a way to reunite.   When Claire jumped overboard, I wanted to shout...don't do it!  Young Ian took a swim and hasn't been seen since! Sometimes the episodes are all over the place. The old adage of ..."hey kids, let's put on a show" comes to  mind.   Sigh..I miss Scotland. 

Edited November 20, 2017 by Swiss

[nara]

8 hours ago, BitterApple said:

I still love the show, but I totally agree with your point. Jamie's complete selfishness in this episode was so jarring and out of character. If his half-baked plan didn't work, then screw Fergus, Willoughby, the two Scots and Marsali, all of whom were innocent. Oh, and since Jaime would likely be tossed over the side of the ship, then forget about finding Ian Jr., so screw him and Jenny and Ian Sr. as well. It would've been worth it, because Claire.

Speaking of which, Jaime made reference to her being the only female among hundreds of men as one of the main factors in why she needed rescuing right away. Don't get me wrong, she's a nice looking lady, but this overarching theme of "Men Can't Control Themselves Around Claire" has become a bit tedious. If I was a guy who'd just spent weeks on a disease-ridden ship, dumping my dead friends overboard, I think sex would be the absolute last thing on my mind. I need to believe the bulk of 18th century men weren't quite as rapey as how they're being portrayed on the show.  

 I thought Jamie’s selfishness made sense in this case. He has been seasick, so he’s physically weaker than usual. Plus, his wife, with whom he was recently reunited after 20 years, has been taken by English soldiers. He has seen a lot of the bad side of the English, excepting John Grey. He isn’t his usual self.

As for Claire’s safety, he absolutely was right to be worried. The same way men were talking about Marsali on the Artemis is the way men might be talking about Claire on the Porpoise. I bet they talked  about Annika (sp?) the same way. It’s not about the individual woman’s beauty—it’s about them not having had sex for weeks or longer. Now, talk doesn’t mean they would actually rape a woman, but who wants to wait around to find out?

[tennisgurl]

Poor young Elias. I knew he was doomed the second Claire asked for his name, but it still got me feeling sad. I really loved that character, even after just one episode. Not only did he die at 14, he did such hard work and had so much responsibility while still being a kid. I know that was pretty common in the 18th century, but its still so very tragic. 

I actually thought the Typhoid outbreak was pretty interesting. Claire is at her best when shes dealing with a crisis (which is often), and most of the characters in her story behaved in reasonable ways. Trying to use her 20th century knowledge to cure this 18th century illness with 18th century stuff on a ship was fascinating, and I always like the period touches they add to these situations. I am also VERY glad things didn't get more rapey on the ship. Jaime was clearly worried about this (and not without reason) but, like I said, most people were basically reasonable. Even the asshole chef didn't actually try to rape or hurt her. He might have tried to hurt her at some point if Claire hadn't told him off, but he mostly just bitched and moaned. I am also taking the galley hand being the original carrier, despite showing no symptoms, as a shout out to the infamous Typhoid Mary debacle in New York City in the 18th century, where a cook named Mary was a Typhoid carrier, but showed no symptoms, and she ended up passing the illness to tons of people and starting several outbreaks, because she wouldn't stop cooking even when people told her she was causing all this, and she finally had to be quarantined against her will to stop the deaths she was causing.

On the other hand, Jaime was acting like way more of an asshole than he usually is. I get that he is really upset, but he was such a selfish dick to poor Fergus, who has been loyal to him for so many years, and is trying to actually do the smart thing. What was Jaimies plan? 7 guys vs 20? How did he really see that going? If Fergus broke Jaime out, it would probably just get them both jailed and killed. At least he came around eventually. 

Edited November 21, 2017 by tennisgurl

[RulerofallIsurvey]

16 hours ago, nara said:

 As for Claire’s safety, he absolutely was right to be worried. The same way men were talking about Marsali on the Artemis is the way men might be talking about Claire on the Porpoise. I bet they talked  about Annika (sp?) the same way. It’s not about the individual woman’s beauty—it’s about them not having had sex for weeks or longer. Now, talk doesn’t mean they would actually rape a woman, but who wants to wait around to find out?

Your comment reminded me of something I'd thought of during the episode (then promptly forgot as I wrote my comments) - and I'm not trying to 'call you out' or anything by quoting you - it's just seeing your comment helps me remember what it is I wanted to say! 

I've seen on other shows the mention of a man being around, traveling with a woman, was her 'protection' like Fergus was Marsali's 'protection' especially with Jamie in the brig, but I wonder how historically accurate this actually is?  I mean, if a man really wanted to rape one of the women, even one man being around (Fergus, for example) probably wouldn't be enough to stop someone from doing it.  And it definitely wouldn't be enough if there was a gang rape attempt.  Now, I realize much of the deterrent, especially on the Royal Navy ship comes down to discipline and the threat of discipline one the ship reached port even if something happened on the open seas.  But what about on a merchant ship like the Artemis?  Is one man really enough to save the honor of a woman among a hundred other horny, amoral men?  Seems to me, like @tennisgurl said, for it to have not happened more often, most people would have had to been basically reasonable and good. 

[nara]

Part of the problem is that Jamie still sees Fergus as a little boy instead of a man with his own responsibilities and priorities and judgment. It’s not unusual for someone in a parental role. It also explains why he doesn’t take the courtship seriously.

[nara]

20 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

Your comment reminded me of something I'd thought of during the episode (then promptly forgot as I wrote my comments) - and I'm not trying to 'call you out' or anything by quoting you - it's just seeing your comment helps me remember what it is I wanted to say! 

I've seen on other shows the mention of a man being around, traveling with a woman, was her 'protection' like Fergus was Marsali's 'protection' especially with Jamie in the brig, but I wonder how historically accurate this actually is?  I mean, if a man really wanted to rape one of the women, even one man being around (Fergus, for example) probably wouldn't be enough to stop someone from doing it.  And it definitely wouldn't be enough if there was a gang rape attempt.  Now, I realize much of the deterrent, especially on the Royal Navy ship comes down to discipline and the threat of discipline one the ship reached port even if something happened on the open seas.  But what about on a merchant ship like the Artemis?  Is one man really enough to save the honor of a woman among a hundred other horny, amoral men?  Seems to me, like @tennisgurl said, for it to have not happened more often, most people would have had to been basically reasonable and good. 

Actually, I think it may be a deterrent to have a man there. Even in today’s world women get advice like “tell them you have a boyfriend” or “wear a ring” as a way of fending off unwelcome advances. Sadly, some men will respect boundaries only if the woman is “the property” of another man. That being said, if they made a deliberate plan to attack her, he might not be able to protect her, but he might be able to hold them off until help arrives from the other men in the ship. And I agree, the ship society, like other societies, depends on the fundamental concept that people are basically decent.

[ganesh]

I don't know if Jamie still sees Fergus as a little boy, but we know that Fergus has/had a lot of girlfriends, so Jamie would be skeptical thinking that he's settled down now. 

[RulerofallIsurvey]

34 minutes ago, nara said:

Sadly, some men will respect boundaries only if the woman is “the property” of another man.

True.  Ugh - I hadn't thought of that, and especially appropriate given the era in which the show is set. 

[CalamityBoPeep]

On 11/20/2017 at 2:19 PM, taanja said:

The cook looks kind of like the same cook character from Black Sails-- sort of surly and mean.

He was played by the same actor who played Randall on Black Sails. :-)

[kwnyc]

But that whole thing with arresting Jamie is based on Tompkins identifying him, right? And Claire can fix HIS wagon. And weren't the pamphlets printed by Alexander Malcolm? And isn't the tall redhead on the Porpoise named James Fraser?

I'm following the plot twists, but there's no actual proof that James Fraser and Alexander Malcolm are the same person, and only one witness.

[foxfreakinmulder]

On ‎10‎/‎30‎/‎2018 at 11:13 AM, kwnyc said:

But that whole thing with arresting Jamie is based on Tompkins identifying him, right?

I think so, but how does Tompkins know Alexander Malcolm is James Fraser? I don't understand that, if that is what they are talking about?

Oh how I'll miss Elias :-( What a great character I wanted to see more of him and less of Jamie. I had a feeling when he handed Claire his rabbit foot he was doomed. I'm surprised she didn't give it back to him and tell him it was silly nonsense like she argued with the captain about the horseshoe.

I don't know how Claire is going to warn Jamie by jumping overboard.

I don't know why but when I watch shows like this all I think about is these people must stink. Their clothes are so dirty they must reek of body odor and other odors when they take their clothes off, eww!

[parrotfeathers]

7 hours ago, foxfreakinmulder said:

I don't know why but when I watch shows like this all I think about is these people must stink. Their clothes are so dirty they must reek of body odor and other odors when they take their clothes off, eww!

I think in actual "real life" they did.   You can google how hygiene really was during that time.  Pretty bad.  

[Camera One]

I liked watching Claire take charge of that situation on the ship, so this was one of the better episodes.  She was competent and there were a number of likeable characters such as Elias (I wonder if he got sick from tasting the gruel with his fingers, or did it happen when he was tending to the sick before Claire came onboard?  He succumbed really quickly) and the goat lady (I hope she doesn't get in trouble for helping Claire).

On 11/20/2017 at 7:51 PM, tennisgurl said:

I am also taking the galley hand being the original carrier, despite showing no symptoms, as a shout out to the infamous Typhoid Mary

I also thought of Typhoid Mary.  It was a nice way of incorporating that into the narrative.

So Claire finds out about that Portuguese ship, but she didn't ask the Captain about it?  Or did she find out everything she needed to from the log book?

I almost didn't want them to go back to Jaime's ship.  His "plan" was ridiculous and I am so glad Fergus didn't try to steal the keys from him.  This season has really weakened Jaime's character.  Are they going to have flashbacks to explain how he got into printing sedition posters?  

[Beeyago]

18 hours ago, Camera One said:

Are they going to have flashbacks to explain how he got into printing sedition posters?  

Good question.

[gingerella]

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, how much more of this am I to take before I just scream in frustration?!? Is this series just going to be now one "Reunited, Separated, Reunited" peppered with angst and drama for the next 3.5 seasons?!?

Things that didn't make me roll my eyes all the way back in my head:

I really liked seeing the War ship set sail from Jamie's perspective, that was nice and reminded me of A. Malcomb, which seems like an eternity ago, when our protagonists were still on Scottish soil, trying to get back to one another. Ahhhh yes, remember the good old days when it was just a lover's tryst sprinkled with some travel fairy dust?! Anyway, you could feel Jamie's helplessness, I mean there's nothing they could do and if they did manage to catch up to the ship AND board it, both unlikely, then they'd get typhoid and die so...yeah...helpless. I felt for Jamie in that moment.

I LOVED Elias Pound and am so sad that he was introduced only to be killed off in one measly episode. He was a character of the level of the Scottish rag tag band from S01/02 that I miss so much now. RIP Mr. Pound. I did appreciate how attached Claire became to him, and how he protected her, he all of age 14. I loved the moment where Elias smiles at Claire's swearing, that was such a great moment, ditto the other guy with her. They were both so amused that a woman could swear like, well, like a sailor! As a woman who swears like a sailor, I appreciate those moments so much. The whole 'last stitch' thing was a bit gruesome but I get it from how superstitious sailors are as a lot. So it was obvious that Claire would do the same for Elias but still, it was a tough moment, and I had to look away. That said, in that moment I said to myself, "Claire is a fucking baller!" She really is, no matter how exasperating she may get at times, she has more balls than most men she comes into contact with.

Poor Cousin Jared, every time he gives Jamie control of his wine, shit goes down and he loses barrels and money. He needs to stop helping Jamie. I still want to know more about him though, he's the most sensible Fraser we've met yet and just shows up for bits here and there.

Annieke the goat herder was also a baller, and I loved her plan, and how Claire thought she didn't get what Claire was saying but she knew exactly what she was doing.

I also liked the distilling rum into grain alcohol for disinfecting purposes - nice touch of bringing 1700's know how and combining it with Claire's 1960's medical knowledge.

Things that made me go 'huh?!?":

Jamie's screed to Fergus about what real love is:

Jamie: "Get me the keys."

Fergus: "No, I love her too though, but no."

Jamie: "Ye dinna ken what love is...because if you did you'd move heaven and earth, your risk arrest and death, even hell...You'd do it as easily the prick of a pin...Til ye risk all ye canna speak of love."

I get what Jamie's saying and why, given the situation they're presently in, but honestly, his scheme is so hair-brained and ill thought out, and Fergus is right, there is no way they'll convince that many of the captain's men to mutiny with them and they'll all be thrown overboard and Marsali will surely be raped and it will be awful. So Fergus did the right thing to protect Marsali, but also to protect Jamie from himself and his bad ideas. Jamie also seems to forget that he's not 22 anymore and canna just leap from one ship to the next and climb aboard...Small details that he doesn't really think through. However, I think his irrational plan stems from his crazed frame of mind that he may have just lost Claire AGAIN. He's been very clear with her since she returned, that he cannot lose her again, and I think he doesn't think he'll survive that separation again.

I noticed there was a Chinese sailor onboard the Porpoise, I wonder if there's a connection between him and Willoughby because that was probably a rare thing in that time.

Claire never gets sunburnt...just an observation...\

Claire hangs about on the deck of a ship at night that has hundreds of men who I'm sure would love to have a go with her. Why isn't she locked away in her cabin? The scene with the menacing dude where Elias saves the day, or night as it were, was a lovely scene.

So Claire goes into the captains cabin to find that Jamie IS wanted for Sedition as Alexander Malcomb? Wasn't Fergus supposed to 'take care of' the one-eyed man for Jamie when they separated in Edinburgh after the fire? Why were we not told what happened with that little tidbit of information? That's poor story telling if you ask me, I know, nobody asked me...The ONLY person who knows A. Malcomb and Jamie Fraser are one and the same is Harry Thompkins so why not just kill him and be done with it? Claire could have infected him with Typhoid and let the disease do it's thing, she didn't even have to kill him herself. If he's dead there's nobody to connect the two, is there?

And related to the above, Captain Leonard is a first class asshole. He is indebted to Claire but won't let this thing with Jamie go? Why didn't Claire ask to speak to him privately and then appeal to his English senses to uphold his oath that he owed her a debt of gratitude and she wanted payment NOW? Why aren't these obvious things said on the Show? It's damn maddening!

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ indeed!

 

[Cdh20]

2 hours ago, gingerella said:

Jesus, Mary and Joseph, how much more of this am I to take before I just scream in frustration?!? Is this series just going to be now one "Reunited, Separated, Reunited" peppered with angst and drama for the next 3.5 seasons?!?

Things that didn't make me roll my eyes all the way back in my head:

I really liked seeing the War ship set sail from Jamie's perspective, that was nice and reminded me of A. Malcomb, which seems like an eternity ago, when our protagonists were still on Scottish soil, trying to get back to one another. Ahhhh yes, remember the good old days when it was just a lover's tryst sprinkled with some travel fairy dust?! Anyway, you could feel Jamie's helplessness, I mean there's nothing they could do and if they did manage to catch up to the ship AND board it, both unlikely, then they'd get typhoid and die so...yeah...helpless. I felt for Jamie in that moment.

I LOVED Elias Pound and am so sad that he was introduced only to be killed off in one measly episode. He was a character of the level of the Scottish rag tag band from S01/02 that I miss so much now. RIP Mr. Pound. I did appreciate how attached Claire became to him, and how he protected her, he all of age 14. I loved the moment where Elias smiles at Claire's swearing, that was such a great moment, ditto the other guy with her. They were both so amused that a woman could swear like, well, like a sailor! As a woman who swears like a sailor, I appreciate those moments so much. The whole 'last stitch' thing was a bit gruesome but I get it from how superstitious sailors are as a lot. So it was obvious that Claire would do the same for Elias but still, it was a tough moment, and I had to look away. That said, in that moment I said to myself, "Claire is a fucking baller!" She really is, no matter how exasperating she may get at times, she has more balls than most men she comes into contact with.

Poor Cousin Jared, every time he gives Jamie control of his wine, shit goes down and he loses barrels and money. He needs to stop helping Jamie. I still want to know more about him though, he's the most sensible Fraser we've met yet and just shows up for bits here and there.

Annieke the goat herder was also a baller, and I loved her plan, and how Claire thought she didn't get what Claire was saying but she knew exactly what she was doing.

I also liked the distilling rum into grain alcohol for disinfecting purposes - nice touch of bringing 1700's know how and combining it with Claire's 1960's medical knowledge.

Things that made me go 'huh?!?":

Jamie's screed to Fergus about what real love is:

Jamie: "Get me the keys."

Fergus: "No, I love her too though, but no."

Jamie: "Ye dinna ken what love is...because if you did you'd move heaven and earth, your risk arrest and death, even hell...You'd do it as easily the prick of a pin...Til ye risk all ye canna speak of love."

I get what Jamie's saying and why, given the situation they're presently in, but honestly, his scheme is so hair-brained and ill thought out, and Fergus is right, there is no way they'll convince that many of the captain's men to mutiny with them and they'll all be thrown overboard and Marsali will surely be raped and it will be awful. So Fergus did the right thing to protect Marsali, but also to protect Jamie from himself and his bad ideas. Jamie also seems to forget that he's not 22 anymore and canna just leap from one ship to the next and climb aboard...Small details that he doesn't really think through. However, I think his irrational plan stems from his crazed frame of mind that he may have just lost Claire AGAIN. He's been very clear with her since she returned, that he cannot lose her again, and I think he doesn't think he'll survive that separation again.

I noticed there was a Chinese sailor onboard the Porpoise, I wonder if there's a connection between him and Willoughby because that was probably a rare thing in that time.

Claire never gets sunburnt...just an observation...\

Claire hangs about on the deck of a ship at night that has hundreds of men who I'm sure would love to have a go with her. Why isn't she locked away in her cabin? The scene with the menacing dude where Elias saves the day, or night as it were, was a lovely scene.

So Claire goes into the captains cabin to find that Jamie IS wanted for Sedition as Alexander Malcomb? Wasn't Fergus supposed to 'take care of' the one-eyed man for Jamie when they separated in Edinburgh after the fire? Why were we not told what happened with that little tidbit of information? That's poor story telling if you ask me, I know, nobody asked me...The ONLY person who knows A. Malcomb and Jamie Fraser are one and the same is Harry Thompkins so why not just kill him and be done with it? Claire could have infected him with Typhoid and let the disease do it's thing, she didn't even have to kill him herself. If he's dead there's nobody to connect the two, is there?

And related to the above, Captain Leonard is a first class asshole. He is indebted to Claire but won't let this thing with Jamie go? Why didn't Claire ask to speak to him privately and then appeal to his English senses to uphold his oath that he owed her a debt of gratitude and she wanted payment NOW? Why aren't these obvious things said on the Show? It's damn maddening!

Jesus H. Roosevelt Christ indeed!

 

I've not much to say because ships make me puke, & puke makes me puke! The only explanation for Jamie being irrational is that he cannot lose Claire again, that is all! On to Survivor!

[Anothermi]

5 hours ago, gingerella said:

I LOVED Elias Pound and am so sad that he was introduced only to be killed off in one measly episode. He was a character of the level of the Scottish rag tag band from S01/02 that I miss so much now. RIP Mr. Pound. I did appreciate how attached Claire became to him, and how he protected her, he all of age 14. I loved the moment where Elias smiles at Claire's swearing, that was such a great moment, ditto the other guy with her. They were both so amused that a woman could swear like, well, like a sailor!

This move is a head scratcher. He's a character I would have looked forward to seeing again. ONE EPISODE!!! And he got more of a back story than Muesli (yahknow? Leery's spawn?).  He's 14; been at sea since he was 7 because his seafaring father had some clout and got him a birth despite his youth. And he was on the officer-track because of that same family connection. That might also explain his sense of chivalry and honour. Seamen who were press-ganged are generally uneducated and given little or no responsibility.  

Somebody up thread mentioned they felt foreboding when Elias gave Claire his lucky rabbit's foot. I did as well. Claire felt so guilty for not noticing Mr. Pound's symptoms.

However, if Mr. Pound's legacy is to be the reason Claire ends up doing something stupid down the road so as not to make the same mistake? I may just give up. Gah. This Season has me projecting even worse episodes!! I've got to stop doing that. 

On 11/19/2017 at 7:50 PM, Auj said:

Why make your lead character- Claire- into an unlikeable woman? And then do the same to Jamie-oh look- Jamie is upset Claire has been pressganged (AGAIN) to another ship. Jamie comes up with a silly hairbrained plan to rescue Claire. Jamie was never silly before. Nor was he thick. Jamie was a  farmer, a Highlander warrior, trained troops in the Rebellion, ran a wine business for his Cousin, ran a PrintShop, etc..Now Jamie is  ? continuously. Enough already.....And where is Claire and her compassion and kindness? And where are my Outlander Season One DVDs?!!

^^This^^ pretty much says it all for me.  Where have the compelling main characters gone? So far—if it weren't for the interesting secondary characters—there is very little to keep us engaged.  As @Juliegirlj wrote upthread:

On 11/20/2017 at 7:32 AM, Juliegirlj said:

None of the main characters have stayed true to their nature. So everything that made us fall in love with the characters and the show is now gone.... 

That states clearly why I so often find myself thinking W.T.F? in the past few episodes.

There were a few seconds of dialog that hinted that there might be a reason for this incomprehensible approach, but very few. 

 

Jamie's treatment of Fergus & Muesli:

OK. Let's just leave it at Jamie-is-not-himself these days. But I'm hoping that the connection he forged with Fergus—starting in France and then subsequent to Claire's return to her era—was deep and strong because I can no longer see the reason why Fergus is so insistent on emulating Jamie and needing his approval. Fergus is likely in his late twenties by now! He's a grown man and it's not surprising he's thinking of settling down. 

Muesli is another story. This episode she's appeared to be more like her mother than anything else. BUT... when she recognized that Fergus was a chip off the old Jamie block when it came to stubbornness (or honour as they would see it) it seems to me that the show was leading us to believe that it was HER brainwave that Jamie could be released from his imprisonment by a testimonial that Jamie was a man of his word and once given the Captain could trust Jamie would keep it.  (Claire represents the half of Jamie that gets to break her/his word it seems. As long as it all works out, right?) Muesli would have been seen as a credible witness to this—at least from the Captain's perspective. 

I particularly loved when she quietly told Jamie that if he distrusted Fergus he didn't deserve Fergus' loyalty. (or words to that effect). Perhaps the show may allow her to become a real person—not a cardboard cutout monster like her mother. 

Captain Leonard:

Since we've been deprived of Mr. Pound, I'm wondering if this guy is going to have a bigger roll in the story—once we get off these bloody ships!  I may be alone in this opinion, but I find Captain Leonard is currently the better man (than Jamie) because he puts his duty to his crew first and foremost; and his duty to his job next.  I vaguely remember James Fraser doing that at Culloden—only it went to Claire; to family; to clan; to country. 

This guy doesn't know Jamie. He's been given information that Jamie is likely wanted for sedition (as A. Malcomb) and his duty is to take him into custody to face trial. He knows he owes Claire beyond any ability to repay her, but he will not give up his sense of honour and duty for her.  All I can say is: he's young. He may become more corruptible as he gets older. Not that I'd like to see that. 

He's treated Claire like a "real" doctor even though she would not be considered a real doctor back then due to her gender. He has put his trust in her and never challenged her methods. Again, that very fact is unusual for the time.  He has already put his own reputation on the line for her and his trust in her has been proven well founded.  I don't see that her being right about how to deal with disease leads to turning a blind eye on his overall duty. 

As far as I can see—IF he ends up in future episodes—he will at least be a man of his word. They are few and far between. 

On 11/19/2017 at 6:43 PM, nara said:

Glad the British captain was not fooled by the Goat Escape.  I hate it when authorities are portrayed as completely stupid.  Though I do wonder if anyone  will hear the big splash of Claire + raft jumping.

I agree that—given how quiet things were that night—anyone on deck when Claire jumped would hear the splash—two splashes with the "raft"—and rush to investigate it.

I understood what Annekje was explaining to her—that the currents near land are strong and they would take her to land quickly without her having to swim. But her bundle of clothes looked like it was just plunked on top of the barrel-raft and it would separate from the barrels  before they hit the water (a third splash).  Wouldn't that be where Claire's money would be? If she lost them—which would be very easily—she wouldn't be able to afford to catch a boat to where Jamie was headed. AND she'd be back wandering around a foreign country in her underclothes. Just like in S01E01.

 

Edited June 16, 2021 by Anothermi
clarity

[gingerella]

19 hours ago, Anothermi said:

However, if Mr. Pound's legacy is to be the reason Claire ends up doing something stupid down the road so as not to make the same mistake?

I don't ken your meaning lass, can ye extrapolate please?

19 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Where have the compelling main characters gone? So far—if it weren't for the interesting secondary characters—there is very little to keep us engaged.

This is a big issue right now. In S01/02 we had the Scottish rag tag band that was Dougal and his men, as well as the folks at Castle Leoch, then the characters in France (Master Raymond, Mother Hildegard, Fergus). Then back to Scotland to Jenny and her family, BPC and that scene. But as of S03E07, we've lost most of those folks and are subjected to one disaster after the next, and with secondary characters that aren't compelling, and those that are - well okay just one, Mr. Pound - are immediately killed off. And our lead characters are all acting stupid to boot. There was an almost lyrical flow to S01 and even parts of S02, but now it feels like characters desperately seeking a plot line, but unable to find it so they're just grabbing on to random bits and bobs and that does not a Story make! All of this is even more perplexing when one takes into account that the lead characters are also co-producers. I don't root around much so as to keep meself unspoiled and all, but this isn't a spoiler so it's odd to me that these two folks aren't more involved in the production details, like making sure the story lines are up to snuff. Then again, I'm not sure when they started co-producing so there's that. I sort of find myself feeling duped, to be honest, that the first two seasons were so good and now it's kind of just dreck.

19 hours ago, Anothermi said:

I particularly loved when she quietly told Jamie that if he distrusted Fergus he didn't deserve Fergus' loyalty. (or words to that effect). Perhaps the show may allow her to become a real person—not a cardboard cutout monster like her mother. 

Well she can't be worse than her mother, can she? So she either continues to be a snotty little bitch or she improves, she can't really get worse.

19 hours ago, Anothermi said:

Captain Leonard:

Since we've been deprived of Mr. Pound, I'm wondering if this guy is going to have a bigger roll in the story—once we get off these bloody ships!  I may be alone in this opinion, but I find Captain Leonard is currently the better man (than Jamie) because he puts his duty to his crew first and foremost; and his duty to his job next.  I vaguely remember James Fraser doing that at Culloden—only it went to Claire; to family; to clan; to country. 

This guy doesn't know Jamie. He's been given information that Jamie is likely wanted for sedition (as A. Malcomb) and his duty is to take him into custody to face trial. He knows he owes Claire beyond any ability to repay her, but he will not give up his sense of honour and duty for her.  All I can say is: he's young. He may become more corruptible as he gets older. Not that I'd like to see that. 

He's treated Claire like a "real" doctor even though she would not be considered a real doctor back then due to her gender. He has put his trust in her and never challenged her methods. Again, that very fact is unusual for the time.  He has already put his own reputation on the line for her and his trust in her has been proven well founded.  I don't see that her being right about how to deal with disease leads to turning a blind eye on his overall duty. 

As far as I can see—IF he ends up in future episodes—he will at least be a man of his word. They are few and far between. 

I get your points about Captain Leonard, and that he has no idea if what Jamie's done or not done is actually real. But he's chosen to believe a skeevy old creepster like the one-eyed man, and he IS trying to use Claire as bait so it's the using her as bait that I find so repugnant and it cancels out any honor or duty in how I view him right now.

19 hours ago, Anothermi said:

I agree that—given how quiet things were that night—anyone on deck when Claire jumped would hear the splash—two splashes with the "raft"—and rush to investigate it.

I understood what Annekje was explaining to her—that the currents near land are strong and they would take her to land quickly without her having to swim. But her bundle of clothes looked like it was just plunked on top of the barrel-raft and it would separate from the barrels  before they hit the water (a third splash).  Wouldn't that be where Claire's money would be? If she lost them—which would be very easily—she wouldn't be able to afford to catch a boat to where Jamie was headed. AND she'd be back wandering around a foreign country in her underclothes. Just like in S01E01.

I think in a ship that size a splash made by someone isn't going to be that noticeable especially if they have the wind with them. It's not that quiet on the deck of a sailing vessel, wind makes a lot of white noise in my experience. And the men may or may not be imbibing alcohol and be slightly drunk and take no notice of a little splash here or there. It's how she's going to manage to SEE the raft AND how her clothing parcel isn't going to go down in the water like a lead balloon AND how she's not going to lose her money jumping into the water. But over and above all of that, which insists we suspend belief in the aforementioned things, I DO really like Annekje a lot, so naturally we'll not see her again either. Bah!

[Scarlett45]

23 hours ago, Anothermi said:

OK. Let's just leave it at Jamie-is-not-himself these days. But I'm hoping that the connection he forged with Fergus—starting in France and then subsequent to Claire's return to her era—was deep and strong because I can no longer see the reason why Fergus is so insistent on emulating Jamie and needing his approval. Fergus is likely in his late twenties by now! He's a grown man and it's not surprising he's thinking of settling down. 

Often when we love our parents (and Jaime has acted as a father figure to Fergus- not as much as Jenny or Ian because he was away, but he has), we want to emulate them and get their approval. 
 

Even in our late 20s. Jaime saved Fergus from sexual slavery, took him in, gave him a home and an extended family- Fergus was willing to lie for him and lost a hand. Fergus may not always do exactly what Jaime says, BUT I understand 100% why he wants his blessing. 

[Anothermi]

41 minutes ago, Scarlett45 said:

Often when we love our parents (and Jaime has acted as a father figure to Fergus- not as much as Jenny or Ian because he was away, but he has), we want to emulate them and their approval. 
 

Even in our late 20s. Jaime saved Fergus from sexual slavery, took him in, gave him a home and an extended family- Fergus was willing to lie for him and lost a hand. Fergus may not always do exactly what Jaime says, BUT I understand 100% why he wants his blessing. 

I'm with you in all of that. It's how Jamie is treating him in this episode that has me wondering if it can withstand that treatment. Fergus IS standing up to Jamie and doing what he thinks is right. He's doing what Jamie would have done. But right until Muesli finagled Jamie's release from the brigg Jamie didn't see or appreciate that. I'm assuming his brief "you have my blessing" will have to do for the appreciation that Fergus (and Muesli) really deserved. 

I see a danger in Jamie changing from always doing the right thing to always thinking that what he does IS the right thing. It comes from the change in our main characters this Season.  

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

 

23 hours ago, Anothermi said:

However, if Mr. Pound's legacy is to be the reason Claire ends up doing something stupid down the road so as not to make the same mistake?

I don't ken your meaning lass, can ye extrapolate please?

Mr. Pound's legacy  was to Claire. It was that she had a blind spot when it came to him and didn't catch the symptoms of the disease soon enough to give him treatment.  I did explain that the erratic content of this episode and this Season have me wasting time thinking the worse for the story ahead. I probably should have deleted it. I was not feeling very positive about the show.

 

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

And the men may or may not be imbibing alcohol and be slightly drunk and take no notice of a little splash here or there.

I disagree with this. They are on a ship, alone in the ocean and one of the main concerns of all the crew—from the lowliest to the greatest—is to ensure they are safe.  There is no such thing as a little splash here or there in those circumstances. A splash could be a man overboard or cargo overboard. If they are the only ship they can see, then the splash will have come from their ship. There are men assigned to "watch-duties" to be alert for that very thing. Even if it's a drunken fight, every man (and woman) is needed to keep the ship functional.  So if one goes overboard every effort is made to save them.  The scene they showed—when Claire and Annekje where planning the jump— was one of surprising calm and quiet.  

I am readying my eye sockets for Olympic sized eye rolling if nobody notices. 

Edited June 17, 2021 by Anothermi

[SassAndSnacks]

4 hours ago, gingerella said:

All of this is even more perplexing when one takes into account that the lead characters are also co-producers.

They didn’t become producers until Season 5. Slip that into your back pocket for later. 

Otherwise, yes to all of the things you all are mentioning. To be fair to the show, this source material is also rather WTF-esque at this point.
 

Also, I figured Mr. Pound was a goner the minute he licked his finger. 

[gingerella]

31 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

They didn’t become producers until Season 5. Slip that into your back pocket for later. 

To be fair to the show, this source material is also rather WTF-esque at this point.

Good to know on the first point, though I'm not sure why yet! 😄 And interesting on the second point. I guess it's difficult to come out of the gate with source materials for S01 & 02, and then continue that high... I had huge issues with GoTs after season 01 or 02 so I get it. I cannot imagine writing such epic books and having to write many books for one long series and keeping up the same standard for all.

34 minutes ago, SassAndSnacks said:

I figured Mr. Pound was a goner the minute he licked his finger. 

Yeah good point, I thought at the time she should have treated him proactively but I'm not sure you can for Typhoid. But what a fabulous actor he is!

1 hour ago, Anothermi said:

There is no such thing as a little splash here or there in those circumstances. A splash could be a man overboard or cargo overboard. If they are the only ship they can see, then the splash will have come from their ship.

I'm not sure if you sail or not Anothermi, but if not, when a boat or ship is slicing through the water, even if it's relatively calm, there is a certain sluicing sound that's sort of like white noise or "SSSHHHHHHSHing" though the water, so I'm not sure a splash would be heard differently from that or not. We'll see soon though if it was heard!

And I'm with you on the eye rolling, I think it's going to get worse before it gets better...

 

[Camera One]

I can't believe you all aren't fully enjoying "Outrigger"... uh, I mean "Outlander".  

On 6/15/2021 at 12:51 PM, gingerella said:

The ONLY person who knows A. Malcomb and Jamie Fraser are one and the same is Harry Thompkins so why not just kill him and be done with it? Claire could have infected him with Typhoid and let the disease do it's thing, she didn't even have to kill him herself. If he's dead there's nobody to connect the two, is there?

Claire: *Gasp*  But I took an OATH to save lives, no matter how despicable, and whether or not it will likely lead to the demise of people I love!  

I was totally rooting for Claire to infect him.  Heck, infect the Captain too.  (Insert evil smile)

Edited June 17, 2021 by Camera One

[gingerella]

I totally forgot to mention about this episode the small points that I DID like. Well, hang on, 'like' is too enthusiastic a word, more like 'appreciate'. 

I did like how we got the one-eyed man back on the canvas again, and it tells us he did manage to give Sir Percival the seditious materials from A. Malcomb's print shop. It doesn't tell us why Fergus screwed that one up but...

I also appreciated - like is too enthusiastic a word - the resolution to my question of what will happen when someone finally finds the dead guy in the Creme de Menthe casket. Now we know, add murder for 200 Alex! (Trebek and Malcomb).

Am I missing any other touch backs to story threads that we picked back up in this epi?

[Anothermi]

1 hour ago, gingerella said:

I did like how we got the one-eyed man back on the canvas again, and it tells us he did manage to give Sir Percival the seditious materials from A. Malcomb's print shop. It doesn't tell us why Fergus screwed that one up but...

Riiiight. That (hopefully) will be an interesting conversation confrontation between Jamie and Fergus. 

Following up on @Camera One 's point re: Claire...

Now that Fergus' other influence is back, (yes, Claire was his other influence) perhaps he had second thought's about taking a life? After all, Milady tried to save the life of a man who tried to kill her! (tongue-in-cheek—I think)

Edited June 17, 2021 by Anothermi
grammar

[QuinnM]

On 6/15/2021 at 2:51 PM, gingerella said:

And related to the above, Captain Leonard is a first class asshole. He is indebted to Claire but won't let this thing with Jamie go? Why didn't Claire ask to speak to him privately and then appeal to his English senses to uphold his oath that he owed her a debt of gratitude and she wanted payment NOW? Why aren't these obvious things said on the Show? It's damn maddening!

Forget all the honorable pieces of this man.  He stole this woman.  He declared that she was his and set sail.  He best make sure she was well treated.  He’s an asshole.  He can claim all the high minded principals he wants but he does owe her.  To go after her husband on the word of one rather odd crewman is not enough.

On 6/16/2021 at 8:48 PM, gingerella said:

I'm not sure if you sail or not Anothermi, but if not, when a boat or ship is slicing through the water, even if it's relatively calm, there is a certain sluicing sound that's sort of like white noise or "SSSHHHHHHSHing" though the water, so I'm not sure a splash would be heard differently from that or not. We'll see soon though if it was heard!

Especially in open seas.  The waves and currents I swear crash on the ship like they are all whales trying to sink you.  Yes I do not sleep well on sail vessels in the open sea.  Lesson learned.

On 6/15/2021 at 7:14 PM, Anothermi said:

understood what Annekje was explaining to her—that the currents near land are strong and they would take her to land quickly without her having to swim. But her bundle of clothes looked like it was just plunked on top of the barrel-raft and it would separate from the barrels  before they hit the water (a third splash).  Wouldn't that be where Claire's money would be? If she lost them—which would be very easily—she wouldn't be able to afford to catch a boat to where Jamie was headed. AND she'd be back wandering around a foreign country in her underclothes. Just like in S01E01.

Claire jumped off a ship in the middle of effin nowhere!  You would think that Jamie had just told her to stay poot.

[Anothermi]

3 hours ago, QuinnM said:

Forget all the honorable pieces of this man.  He stole this woman.  He declared that she was his and set sail.  He best make sure she was well treated.  He’s an asshole.  He can claim all the high minded principals he wants but he does owe her.  To go after her husband on the word of one rather odd crewman is not enough.

I guess I'm alone in seeing him as a decent fellow. Did he steal her because she was a woman? Wouldn't he have done the same for a male doctor who 1) had been willing to come aboard—however unlikely it would be; and 2) had a clear plan on how to contain the contagion which included getting to port ASAP? He sent word as to what his was doing, where he was going and how he would treat Claire until she was reclaimed by her husband. 

I concur that we learn that he also knew by that time that Jamie was a wanted man and— from what he'd seen of Jamie—having him come after them was his best plan to both save his men—and capture his man. 

Regarding the rather odd crewman—Gingerella has just mentioned that Fergus was assigned the job of "dealing" with him and yet he ended up on a British man-o-war. He had worked for Sir Percival, who was an agent of the crown. There is room— in what we don't know about how he got on that ship—for his connection with Sir Percival to be credible.  He'd met Jamie and determined for himself that A. Malcolm and J. Fraser were one and same. 

Of course there is also room for less-than-honourable goings on as well. "Harry Tompkins" told Claire that Captain Leonard was an ambitious man and that capturing a notorious man wanted for sedition might give him a boost towards being awarded his own ship. So that may be why he didn't ask more questions but just took Tomkins at his word. And it looks like Harry Tompkins needed to curry favour—perhaps to get off the ship and back home. So I'm not saying that Captain Leonard is strictly on the up and up. But compared with almost every other officer we've met he is at least got a brain and some manners. So, based on this episode, I'm giving him the benefit of the doubt. 

ETA:

Quote

Claire jumped off a ship in the middle of effin nowhere! 

Re-watching the bit preceding her jumping, Annekje told her the "water" would move her and the ship Co-Burn —not the land as I originally thought she was saying— was not far off and they would take her to the port. 

Granted, even so, it was a cockamamie plan. But when has Claire ever done any other kind of plan?

Edited June 18, 2021 by Anothermi
follow up on jump overboard

[mythoughtis]

I understand that the one would recognize Jamie as A Malcolm if he saw him.  However when did he see him?  The only member of the British ship to go aboard the merchant ship was the captain because he’d quarantined his men.   Jamie didn’t  go aboard the British ship for the sane reason.  So the crewman has super eyesight and saw him from one ship to another ? 
 

Now how is Jamie supposed to find Claire?  She doesn’t even know what island she’s close too and she doesn’t know where the ship Jamie is on will make land. 
 

I am starting to get. Envoys that the skeleton found in the cave is Claire.   What’s next - reincarnation?