S35.E08: Playing with the Devil

[piequinn35]

Desi said in her interview that she taught the healers would vote for Lauren. No cohesive plan for the healers. :/

Even if there was a 4-4 tie between Ben or Lauren (healers' votes) & Desi, Desi would still go home, Desi had no clue that Cole & Mike would flip to vote out Joe.

At this point, I don't like Ryan, Crissy, Ben (I am guessing they are the F3)

I don't mind: Joe, Cole, Mike, JP, Ash, Devon & Lauren

Edited November 16, 2017 by piequinn35

[violet and green]

12 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

I can't say I ever saw what you guys see in Desi -- she was pretty much a boring nothing -- but then if she was edited like she was actually there, that might not have been the case.  But it's crazy how quickly the women have been eliminated in this season.  That's two newbie seasons in a row with this sort of voting pattern, and it's freaking me out.

Boring as batshit. Beautiful body and strong in challenges - but other than aligning herself with Joe, I saw nothing of her personality until she started accusing people of lying on Survivor! How dare they! Lie on Survivor! Really, that was ludicrous, and given she acknowledged to Ashley she was aligning with Joe until it became less useful to herself to do so, a rather hypocritical stance. Stunned she's gone over Joe, but not bored by the result.

Ryan's heart! I've never seen anything like that on a human. Chickens, yes. I guess he is scrawny as a chicken. I found Ryan's heart beating visibly through his chest more disturbing even than the group spaghetti on a cloth...

I don't know. I'm pretty lukewarm on this season, but it is slowly, slowly warming up. I wouldn't say it's lukewarm yet, but it starts to have some potential. The people I like are still there. It's alarming to see woman after woman go, but I didn't like any of them anyway! The women I like are still there.

Another stray thought: I was vaguely thinking before this ep started, does Devon look like a young Gregory Peck?? Then he did his spaghetti eating and made that gross "Mmmmm, mmmmm" sound with every mouthful, gag, and I thought suddenly of that greasy guy on Bachelor in Paradise who hooked up with squeaky mom, Amanda, and who they kept editing in gross "Mmmm" sounds when he ate  pizza or kissed her... The dude who was with Andy... Him...

[ljenkins782]

3 hours ago, Eolivet said:

This. For me, what that season got right -- for all its faults -- is it had a lot of people who took the game seriously, but didn't take themselves seriously. This season is so much "I have a great social game! I'm the most strategic player out here! I'm smarter than she is!" Seriously, I haven't heard this kind of sustained, over-the-top bravado since Russell Hantz. Compare this to "I'm going to have to play from the bottom/ My back is against the wall (literally against the wall)/ I'm an endangered species," where you had players in that season communicating vulnerability or humility, even though they were frontrunners. I'm just never going to connect with players as much who say with a completely straight face (not a nod-and-a-wink, Parvati was good at this): "I'm so awesome, and here's why!" Sandra did it in such a way where it was like "I'm lying to you and you're stupid for believing me," where the viewers could laugh right along with her.

Ryan, Chrissy and Joe, take several seats and stop telling me how great you are. You haven't won anything yet.

Millenials vs GenX had Adam, who definitely took himself too seriously (but hey, he did win), but agreed that they found a pretty great cast that season.

As for the bolded, I honestly don't see that coming from Ryan. Chrissy and Joe, yes, but Ryan seems like more of a GenX David, without all the neuroses. He is taking the game seriously and is being given a lot of THs, but he doesn't seem all that arrogant to me. If anything, he expressed surprise to be doing as well as he's done so far. 

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Joe was definitely pushing buttons.  I am pretty sure Ben never swore on the Marines or "on your Marine" as I think Joe claimed.  But I wouldn't be surprised if he had said something like "You can trust me, I'm a Marine".   One of the castaways (Desi?) gave me the impression, that Joe's claim was an exaggeration or distortion, but might have been based upon a kernel of truth that Ben was using being a Marine to gain trust.  

That was driving me insane. That alone should have clued Ben in to the fact that Joe was blowing smoke just to push his buttons. 

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DO we think he was making it up? Or does he REALLY believe that Cole has the Idol? I lean towards the latter. He kept mentioning Cole tucking his shirt in and Cole didn't deny it. He said something like, "It's a really long shirt". I almost think Cole did it intentionally to make people THINK he has the Idol. 

I just rewatched a little bit of the episode over lunch (wanted to catch some of the moments that are being talked about here) and Cole went both ways. First he said he didn't have it and said it's still buried somewhere over there and then when Ben kept after him, he switched over to kinda pretending he might have it. Bluffing was going to be his strategy if he hadn't won immunity.  He did later admit to Joe and somebody else that he doesn't have it.

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I found it a little interesting that Chrissy yelled for the men (Devin first, then Ben) ...

Did she yell for them? I only heard her yell for JP, who I don't think even appeared on the scene lol. 

 

After rewatching, you are correct. She did yell for JP first, he was closest to where she was and indeed did not come over, lol. 

Honestly, I am left REALLY wondering what is up with JP after watching that back again. He was standing right next to Ryan as he pulled the idol out of the sand and then very awkwardly tried to shove it into his underwear*, how on earth did he not see that? He was looking at him and it kinda appeared that he clocked the movement, but he made no reaction AND it was only after there were a solid 6 people screaming and flailing in the sand that he wandered back over and said "hey, why's everybody digging? Cole, did you find a clue?" He's either deliberately pretending not to know as a means of having information no one else knows or he is truly sleepwalking through life.

*Also funny was Ryan initially trying to get in on the digging to pretend he was looking too and clearly realizing that his underwear was not going to hold that idol, so he just stood there with the rolled up parchment dangling down in his crotch area rather prominently. Is there a reason he doesn't have a bathing suit or pants besides that droopy red underwear? The turtleneck plus underwear is...quite a look. 

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Desi said in her interview that she taught the healers would vote for Lauren. No cohesive plan for the healers. :/

Why? Of the people left, Lauren would be one of my last priorities to get out at this stage. She's not performing all the well in the individual challenges and she doesn't seem to have a ton of allies, so she would be a person I'd leave in the game as a voting number to use until some of the bigger threats were gone. 

Edited November 16, 2017 by ljenkins782

[Special K]

3 minutes ago, ljenkins782 said:

*Also funny was Ryan initially trying to get in on the digging to pretend he was looking too and clearly realizing that his underwear was not going to hold that idol, so he just stood there with the rolled up parchment dangling down in his crotch area rather prominently. Is there a reason he doesn't have a bathing suit or pants besides that droopy red underwear? The turtleneck plus underwear is...quite a look. 

 I think he actually is wearing a bathing suit now.  It just looks a lot like his stretched out red boxer briefs.  Main difference, thank Zeus, is no more package.

[ratgirlagogo]

20 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I was waiting for someone to count on their fingers.... count heads of the people there....look up with a puzzled look on their face.... and mouth the words “How can there be a tie???”  Not one of them figured it out. If they did and it was edited out, I’m going to be pissed. I want to see Probst explain it to them.

I still don't understand this.   It's got to have been edited out.  It wouldn't have been the first time on this show that some crucial event wasn't televised.

19 hours ago, mojoween said:

Ryan with the alien trying to burst out of his chest

God that was horrifying.

[Rachel RSL]

I have no doubt that people noticed something was off with the votes but we never get reactions to what happened at TC until the next episode so I'm not surprised at all that  they didn't show us anybody talking about the votes yet. I'm sure they'll get into that at the start of the next episode.

[peachmangosteen]

2 hours ago, watch2much said:

though I really question whether coming on Survivor was a healthy thing to do for someone suffering from PTSD.  

This. Why Production for this and Big Brother thought it was a good idea to put people with PTSD in those situations is beyond me.

2 hours ago, violet and green said:

Another stray thought: I was vaguely thinking before this ep started, does Devon look like a young Gregory Peck?? Then he did his spaghetti eating and made that gross "Mmmmm, mmmmm" sound with every mouthful, gag, and I thought suddenly of that greasy guy on Bachelor in Paradise who hooked up with squeaky mom, Amanda, and who they kept editing in gross "Mmmm" sounds when he ate  pizza or kissed her... The dude who was with Andy... Him...

I think he looks like Josh from The Bachelor, too.

[cooksdelight]

I think the reason Desi voted for Lauren is that one of her allies told her that was who was getting voted out, go with the plan.

And I’d lay money it was Joe who convinced her to vote that way. He was too quick to say he didn’t betray her.

[piequinn35]

15 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

OThen you get hapless Cole, trying to hide the clue (which is to be fair good thinking) by moving a heaping plate of spaghetti onto a cloth, and weirdly Chrissy not finding this suspicious apparently because she still thinks she's the first to find the clue...and then did Joe find it strange that they would provide a cloth of spaghetti, instead of a plate?? 

The order of eating: Devon, JP, Cole, Chrissy, Ryan, Joe

Chrissy did say that Cole is not smart to find an idol clue, if she thought she was the first one to find the clue SO production is also not smart for putting a "cloth of spaghetti" lol.

[iMonrey]

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Desi would be likable to a jury, Joe not so much.

It's always a risky proposition to bank on a "goat" not getting any jury votes because they drive everyone insane. Too many "unlikable" people have won because they wound up in the final three with two players the jury considered coattail riders who flew under the radar and never really played a strong game.  Or with players that burned too many bridges and back-stabbed more people. So if Joe winds up with, say, JP and Ashley in the F3 he might well get all the votes for at least playing, or for "being true to himself." Blech.

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Ryan's heart! I've never seen anything like that on a human.

Seriously? You can see my heart through my chest after a moderate workout and I'm not even especially thin. I don't think this is as uncommon as people are assuming. Ryan's freaky skinny for sure, but that's not the reason you can see the heart pounding.

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Why Production for this and Big Brother thought it was a good idea to put people with PTSD in those situations is beyond me.

Why? People losing their shit on TV is ratings gold of course. What - you think producers give a damn about these people's mental well being? Hell they look for these hair-trigger types.

[blackwing]

2 hours ago, Rachel RSL said:

I have no doubt that people noticed something was off with the votes but we never get reactions to what happened at TC until the next episode so I'm not surprised at all that  they didn't show us anybody talking about the votes yet. I'm sure they'll get into that at the start of the next episode.

How could they not know?  There were 11 of them.  On the first round of voting, Jeff said something like "1 vote Ben, 1 vote Lauren, 4 votes Joe, 3 votes Desi, one vote left."   That's only ten votes!  I think Joe picked up on it but I didn't see any other reaction.

29 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Seriously? You can see my heart through my chest after a moderate workout and I'm not even especially thin. I don't think this is as uncommon as people are assuming. Ryan's freaky skinny for sure, but that's not the reason you can see the heart pounding.

What's the reason then?   I thought the reason why we could see it pounding is because he has zero chest muscles.  He's skin and bones.  He was skinny to begin with and now he's practically a skeleton.  The anxiety and adrenaline would contribute to his heart beating faster, but you wouldn't be able to see it unless he had no muscle.  

[Lamb18]

I missed the episode last night - All Access tanked on me, so I'm watching it now. I haven't read any posts yet so forgive me if I repeat something others have said already.

I want Cole to crack up and go psycho. Now I like Joe a little bit since he smilingly admitted the plan was genius. Ben shouldn't try to control things too much, loose reins, Ben! 

Ha! Lauren found the clue! Good job, girl!! That is an interesting advantage and not necessarily an advantage. It could backfire, especially if it's her name that's written down.

Didn't they just do slingshots?? Two episodes ago?? All right, Lauren! Nail that target! And Cole misses twice! Ha ha! I don't understand why someone didn't come up and take Ashley's place. She didn't have to do it multiple times.

I hope Joe puts Cole last!! I feel like this reward is the show dissing on Cole and his mucky peanut butter hands. OK, so now we know Chrissy did not play a trick with her idol.  And I guess the show did hide an idol under the flag!!  Ha ha, so Ryan found it! Well, Cole did jump on Chrissy, but Chrissy is kind of egging the others on, saw her smile at Ryan while the rest were digging.

(I wonder if Jessica watched this last night and sighed, "Oh my poor misunderstood boy, Cole!")

[Lamb18]

Exciting, another one of those action-packed standing in place challenges! Wow, that many out in the first five minutes. Joe is growing on me. I always like people who can laugh at themselves. Darn, Cole wins immunity! Ugh! Well, Joe's growth on me is stunted after that altercation with Ben. He was just yanking Ben's chain, but I feel it's low to use Ben's military service to taunt him.

Now I wonder if Jeff will read all the votes and people will notice there's one short. Holy cow, votes for 4 different people! Interesting, no one's counting and realizing there's only 10 votes. You'd think math genius Chrissy would be able to add that in her head. Can't tell if Lauren used both ballots.

Rats, I'm disappointed Desi was voted out. I really liked her.

[ICantDoThatDave]

3 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

I still don't understand this.   It's got to have been edited out.  It wouldn't have been the first time on this show that some crucial event wasn't televised.

 

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[I can't figure out how to multiquote - I intended to quote more people's disbelief]

According to Probst, they did *not* comment on it.  He wishes they did.  It would've made for great TV drama, so I believe it, 'cause I also think it would've made for great drama.

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/16/survivor-jeff-probst-heroes-healers-hustlers-episode-8/

[303420]

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

1 vote Ben, 1 vote Lauren, 4 votes Joe, 3 votes Desi, one vote left

One plus one plus two plus one...(points for reference)

For real though, I am certain I would be suspicious, try to add it up, get paranoid that I'm going nuts, figure that either I'm insane or something's up, and then debrief with my closest ally. Joe knows that Cole and Mike didn't vote for Ben but he doesn't know they voted for him. The more I think about it, the more excited I get to see the aftermath.

Well done, Survivor. You own me.

[North of Eden]

Just watched now.

 

I have to say my interest just dropped by about 50% with Desi out. I was rooting for her. I knew she would never win but I thought maybe she would get folded into the main alliance somehow but alas my fears last week that she was drawing a target on herself by winning came true...perhaps she should have thrown tonights challenge early on because lasting to the final two increased the target exponentially. I'll miss her.

Ha! I know an edit fake out when I see one...I guarantee Ben did not see the moment Lauren dropped the note into the earn...that clip of him probably occured at any other  point in the episode.

Hats off for this though...you could NOT have more perfectly scripted a homage to one of my favorite movies IT'S A MAD MAD MAD MAD WORLD with the digging up the idol under the flag. It hearkened back to the cream of early 1960's entertainment gathered under THE BIG W and digging for the money. The flag falling over was even a node to the fire truck ladder going out of control flinging the stars. Great movie...loved the SURVIVOR riff on it!

[ByaNose]

So far we only know that Lauren told Ben about the advantage and using it, right? Desi said the vote count didn’t occur to her until well afterwards. Maybe, back at camp after Tribal someone think more about. I guess we’ll find out next week. I’m disappointed next week isn’t a 2 hour Episode. I was kind of looking forward to a pre Thanksgiving 2 hour episode. I thought for sure that’s the usual drill during Thanksgiving but maybe I’m making it up. 

[blackwing]

1 minute ago, ByaNose said:

So far we only know that Lauren told Ben about the advantage and using it, right? Desi said the vote count didn’t occur to her until well afterwards. Maybe, back at camp after Tribal someone think more about. I guess we’ll find out next week. I’m disappointed next week isn’t a 2 hour Episode. I was kind of looking forward to a pre Thanksgiving 2 hour episode. I thought for sure that’s the usual drill during Thanksgiving but maybe I’m making it up. 

I thought the usual Thanksgiving episode was a Recrap of the season, sprinkled with a few "never before seen" unaired scenes?  But that too may be a product of my faulty memory.

[ByaNose]

2 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I thought the usual Thanksgiving episode was a Recrap of the season, sprinkled with a few "never before seen" unaired scenes?  But that too may be a product of my faulty memory.

Back in the day (a really, really, really long time ago) the recap episode did air before Thanksgiving. Then they realized n watched it and it ruined the flow of the game they stop airing them. I just thought after a rather lame hour premier we would be treated for a 2 hour episode. Apparently, it’s coming but I don’t know when.  

[green]

19 minutes ago, southpaw said:

Per RHAP, the two-hour episode is airing on the 29th.

Thanks for the information but noooooooo!!!  Vikings returns at 9 PM on the 29th.  It was going to be THE perfect line-up.  8 PM Survivor, 9 PM best damn drama on TV (Vikings) and 10 PM the other best damn drama on TV (Mr Robot).  For those of us that can't afford DVRs this means late night watching at weird hours like 2 AM maybe to get this all in now.

Oh well the only three shows I'm watching currently are at least all on the same night leaving the other six nights free of TV for now.

[Mystery]

5 hours ago, cooksdelight said:

I think the reason Desi voted for Lauren is that one of her allies told her that was who was getting voted out, go with the plan.

And I’d lay money it was Joe who convinced her to vote that way. He was too quick to say he didn’t betray her.

But she must know now, since there was only one vote (her vote) for Lauren, that at the very least she wasn't in on the plans. 

As much as I respect people who are there to play, I'm afraid that I'd be taking things like this personally the whole time. 

1 hour ago, blackwing said:

I thought the usual Thanksgiving episode was a Recrap of the season, sprinkled with a few "never before seen" unaired scenes?  But that too may be a product of my faulty memory.

Recrap, I laughed out loud. Thanks. 

[SVNBob]

8 hours ago, 303420 said:

One plus one plus two plus one...

No, it's one plus two plus one plus one.  And the last is for the chandelier.

But speaking of math, Ben was wrong.  This was not the time to split the votes in case of an idol, even before Lauren's advantage came into account.

The numbers were split 7 (Hero-Hustler alliance) vs 4 (Healers).  Ben proposed a split vote within the alliance of 4 Joe (male votes) and 3 Desi (female votes).  Assuming the Healers all voted together and they correctly predicted Joe as the target, then the split would have resulted in 4 votes from the Healers for...let's assume Ben, vs. the 3 valid Desi votes.  Meaning Ben would have been voted out because of his own plan.

The only reason their plan worked is because they had to recalculate due to Lauren's advantage.   By flipping a Healer, Dr. Mike, to vote for Joe, Ben could take Lauren's place on the Desi vote.  Which then makes the hypothetical votes 4 Joe, 3 Desi, 3 Ben.  So if an idol got played for Joe here, the revote would take place and Desi would be voted out with at least 5 votes (all the alliance of 7 minus Ben and Lauren), possibly 6 (the previous + Dr. Mike.)

[himela]

I might sound stubborn but nobody can convince me that Desi being voted out was not Chrissy's idea and that she has no problem with women. It became clear to me when on the first episode she didn't save Katrina and in the contrary Katrina has said in interviews that Chrissy hated her from day 1 and wanted her gone  - shocking right? Any normal person in Chrissy's position would think that her and Katrina should stay together since they were the oldest people there and vote out a younger person but Chrissy hates women very much to think like that. I bet that if Ben was in danger that night she would have saved him saying the old people should stay together. Ewww I am sad to say I dislike her a lot and I wish there was a way I could never see her smug face again.

[himela]

I just listened to Desi's interview with Rob and SHE even said she tried to approach Chrissy but she had no interest of working with Desi and Desi added that Chrissy didn't want to work with women and especially women who were a threat to her. I mean, how many more women do some people need to hear the same story from in order to be convinced that f$_&-+ing Chrissy hates women???

Sorry I am still angry lol.

[Daisy]

17 hours ago, KimberStormer said:

Absolutely, I care about it too.  It's another part of what made me bail on MvGX so early, and what is freaking me out about this season as well.

I feel like this season more than others, Jeff Probst's intense longing to be a daytime talk show host has been extremely evident.  He really wants tribal to be a group therapy session, a journey of self-discovery, a place where people come together and healing happens.  If only there was an audience for him to give free stuff to.

 

first of all. loool. Jeff so wants to be Oprah. 
 

to the second (and i couldn't find your your post that talks about voting patterns, which is a shame) - and do you mind if I ask why? I do feel a lot of people feel this way, and it really intrigues me why that is important to the point that you'd bail on the show or freak out about the season. 

I know for me, being a person of colour and a girl, - I couldn't care less because I don't think that's important to the show. I will admit (and i pointed out earlier) some seasons it gets really gross on how women are treated. (Fiji comes to mind), but there are seasons that some guys are completely treated like crap too (Vanuatu, Anthony on Fiji, One World).  to tie it onto this season 

How the Votes worked this season

Katrina got voted out for the typical "we need to be strong/old woman" thing - but Lauren, whom I'd argue is about the same age of Katrina never faced that on any of her tribes. if Katrina was an older man I think "Karl" would face that. Chrissy got together with Ben after that vote because of how things were breaking down. 

Simone got voted off because she simply wasn't getting along with everything. Patrick was ticking everyone off and was a viable candidate. 

Patrick did get voted off for being annoying and costing a challenge
Alan got voted off because he was annoying, and an advantage 

Roark got voted off because she was the only healer left, and by her own admission, she didn't work hard enough to stay, and blames that - not the switch for her bootout. had Roark been a guy in that situation - and performs the same way, I feel he'd be gone as well. it was the "not knowing Roark at all' that caused her downfall. and was logical 

Ali got voted out because she whined about the previous bootout and felt vulnerable, and then targeted the guy the majority alliance would be a puppy (vs. Ali). if the situation was "equal" (ie: if JP was a girl - Alli still goes, if Alli is a guy - Alli still goes) because Ryan + Chrissy were running that show. what saved JP wasn't that he was a guy (and the challenge threat-ness did come up) it was that they could control that vote, which would help them in the long run. 

Jessica got voted out because they wanted to split the power couple  and they felt Joe would save Cole - not Jessica. that was purely strategic (and a good one). had Joe not said anything, Jessica's safe, and mr. "i can read faces" could have tried to figure out who the target was (which would have been Cole, IMO). 

and this week Desi got a 'respect' vote - eliminating the challenge threat that can hurt the majority alliance - if Desi was male - that would have been the exact same mentality. 

For me the voting pattern seems very logical. and if the gender were reverse, the players would generally be making the same moves  because it's targeted on the player/move - not a hate on the woman themselves (which we've all seen some players do which is wrong), or anything racially motivated. though I will admit, I know a lot of people watch television in general for a lot of different things, but i openly admit it is curious (and confusing) for me sometimes when people do focus on the women/people of colour being eliminated first/earlier/more as if it is deliberate vs. that's just how the cookie is crumbling.  

[azshadowwalker]

Go, Chrissy. Kicking ass, taking names and hopefully on her way to Sole Survivor. I mean, since she's the Most Evil That Ever Eviled™, and is voting everyone out all alone, there's no way for her to lose, right? 

Seriously, though, I love this season. Several smart, strategic players on both sides. Even Joe, who I don't like, is a smart guy. 

Ben needs to fucking go. If the very core of his being is the military, he might need to go home and work on his priorities. He might also be one tick this side of Brandon Hantz, in which case I really blame production for putting him in the situation. 

Cole is a piece of shit and so is Ben in the physical confrontation with Chrissy. Two men attacking one woman over a fucking idol. Both of these guys are mentally unstable and need institutions until they can act like human beings, ffs. Although, I am sure it's the fault of the Evil Old Woman, so I probably should be nice to Those Poor Boys. 

Loving this season!! Rivals some of the best ever for strategy. And whispering in camp is no different than sneaking into the woods. Even if Ben wasn't spying on people, just being seen going off in small groups  makes people suspicious. So, I don't think it matters. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by azshadowwalker

[ProfCrash]

Ben and Joe are the two loud players and are rubbing people the wrong way. Ben is so open with his plans and what he is doing. Joe is intentionally being annoying and pushing buttons. I prefer Ben to Joe. Ben is trying to play the game and seems to have a good, strategic head on his shoulders but he is a bull in the china shop. He has not subtlety. Ben and Lauren appear to have managed to hide their alliance which is a good thing.

I am listening to RHAP and Todd Herzog said that he respects Chrissy's game but something about her rubs him the wrong way. It is clear that Chrissy is not a fan favorite. I think she is playing a great game and making moves that are good for her game. The way I look at it, the women have been more of the strategic threats then the men. Cole vs Jessica, I would be far more worried about Jessica. Desi vs Joe? Desi is more of a challenge threat and is not rubbing people the wrong way. I refuse to blame Chrissy for the Roark vote since that was Roark vs Chrissy. Ali vs JP, Chrissy voted to keep her ally. I still think that she is playing the type of game more commonly associated with a strategic male, like Ryan, and people are not used to seeing a woman play a more clear cut strategic game without trying to smooth things over. Kim was a strategic goddess but she had an amazing social game as well. Chrissy has a great strategic game but is not worried about the social game.

I don't care that the women who have been voted out say Chrissy didn't want to work with them. Chrissy knew she was one of the two names kicked around for the first vote. She was not approached by the younger players in that tribe. She connected with Ryan because of his idol play for her. That led to a tight alliance with Ryan. That has led to an alliance with JP. She doesn't feel like she needs to reach out beyond that group.  Desi was part of the group that Chrissy was targeting. Roark ignored Chrissy. Ali was a challenge to Chrissy's alliance with Ryan.

I will buy that there is something that people don't like about Chrissy. I don't buy that she hates women. I think she has made good strategic decisions and has made a great alliance and is progressing nicely.

I like Ben. He is playing hard. He is honest with what is happening to him. He owns up to his missteps. He is louder and brash and not subtle but I think he is in a good place game wise. I respect his service and I have no problem with his referencing his service. But I work with dudes who have been injured by IEDs in Iraq and Afghanistan so I am around Ben's all day. The reality is their lives are totally different then many of ours because they are affected by what they saw and did. And while I see it every day, I can never understand what they went through. But I know that you walk loudly, no sneaking up on folks, you don't touch someone without permission, and you are a bit careful with what you say. They have cancelled live shooter drills at my place of work because they are worried about how people would respond. It might actually be dangerous for the person/people pretending to be the active shooter. I don't think Ben is playing up his "hero" status. I believe that Ben understands that he is on edge because of his experiences and he is not afraid to tell people that. And he shouldn't be afraid to tell people that. And I bet that the Producers are airing a lot of the Marine comments and asking those questions because they want Ben seen as a hero playing the game. The same way they played up Rudy as a Navy Seal and his service. The difference is that Rudy was a more quiet player and probably would never admit to having PTSD even if he did because it would be seen as a weakness.

[himela]

F&^**&ing Chrissy is winning or else the editors would show us all these women approaching her to work with her and her turning them down with that smug face. They are trying to make her seem less of a bitch than she really is. I rarely dislike a reality show player as much. Even Ryan treats people with respect in my opinion and tries to be funny in his own way.

[Special K]

14 hours ago, piequinn35 said:

The order of eating: Devon, JP, Cole, Chrissy, Ryan, Joe

Chrissy did say that Cole is not smart to find an idol clue, if she thought she was the first one to find the clue SO production is also not smart for putting a "cloth of spaghetti" lol.

I have a new previously.tv forum policy.  I'm going to LIKE any post that uses the term "cloth of spaghetti" LOL. 

Giggling anew here at my desk.  :-p

13 hours ago, blackwing said:

 

What's the reason then?   I thought the reason why we could see it pounding is because he has zero chest muscles.  He's skin and bones.  He was skinny to begin with and now he's practically a skeleton.  The anxiety and adrenaline would contribute to his heart beating faster, but you wouldn't be able to see it unless he had no muscle.  

Yeah this happens to me and also my BF.  I'd have to go back, but I think we weren't seeing the pulse in his heart, but rather in a blood vessel.  I can almost always see my pulse in my neck and frequently in my ankle if my heart rate is up.  Ryan's heart, after all, should be behind his ribs.  I may be wrong -- maybe a medical "healer" on this forum can weigh in.

[SourK]

Whoa. I realize Chrissy wasn't hurt, but I thought the rules against assault or whatever would mean Cole can't just run up and tackle/shove her because he thinks she's looking for an idol.

[blackwing]

14 minutes ago, SourK said:

Whoa. I realize Chrissy wasn't hurt, but I thought the rules against assault or whatever would mean Cole can't just run up and tackle/shove her because he thinks she's looking for an idol.

I deleted the ep so can't check, and my view is coloured by the fact that I don't like Chrissy and Ben, but I'd argue that Cole was just trying to dig in the same area Chrissy was.  She doesn't have the right to claim that whole area as her dig site.  But Ben came in and physically tried to haul Cole away.  At least that's what I think I saw.   It was Ben who did any assault.  Cole didn't pick up Chrissy and throw her aside.  He just shoved himself into a free for all space.  

[peachmangosteen]

5 minutes ago, blackwing said:

I deleted the ep so can't check, and my view is coloured by the fact that I don't like Chrissy and Ben, but I'd argue that Cole was just trying to dig in the same area Chrissy was.  She doesn't have the right to claim that whole area as her dig site.  But Ben came in and physically tried to haul Cole away.  At least that's what I think I saw.   It was Ben who did any assault.  Cole didn't pick up Chrissy and throw her aside.  He just shoved himself into a free for all space.  

This. Cole did nothing against the rules there. People have actually done far worse when trying to get idols.

I just rewatched this scene. Cole just kind of lightly shoves Chrissy at one point. And then she has her hands and legs all over him trying to keep him from digging. Honestly Chrissy was much more aggressive than Cole. Ben then more aggressively shoves Cole, but he doesn't try to haul him away at all. 

Edited November 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

I had no problem with the idol hunt. It looked to me like all parties were hunting for the idol and seemed to be equally pushy. Chrissy did not cry foul. Cole did not cry foul. So I think it was totally fine.

[Lamb18]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 4:21 AM, KimberStormer said:

Question for those who like to freeze-frame and read rules: did Lauren have to use her advantage this vote, or could she have saved it for later?  For example, a time when they weren't splitting and Probst wouldn't read all the votes because the majority would have been reached (you know, when he says "That's 5, that's enough" and doesn't read the rest.)  I know Lauren said she had to use it this time, but I was wondering if she was right about that.

She had the choice of voting or not voting at the next tribal, but that was the only tribal she could do the Not Vote part of the advantage. She can do two votes at any future tribal. There's probably a cutoff but I didn't hear what it was. (Funny if she could use it at final tribal if she's on jury.)

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 7:31 AM, amazingracefan said:

JP saw Ryan get the advantage, right?  He was right behind him, how couldn't he see?

Ryan got an idol, Lauren got the advantage.

22 hours ago, Hanahope said:

However, anyone with a brain, i.e. Ryan and Chrissy, maybe Joe and Mike too, is going to count the votes and wonder why there was a tie.  They will realize that only 10 votes were cast by 11 people.  There will be a lot of speculation as to who didn't vote and why.  Mike may figure it out, since Ben wanted him to flip, and think that Ben had a specific reason (or maybe Lauren - was she there when Ben asked Mike?  I don't recall).  Anyway, I'm wondering if it might be useful for Lauren to admit that she didn't vote, but lie as to the reason.  Say something along the lines that she found the paper, but it said "disadvantage" and she was instructed not to vote at the next tribal, but not say that she got a concurrent advantage.  Say it was like the one given to Devon, but this was direct and she could tell people, or not and if necessary admit to Mike only that she did tell Ben, so they knew there was a potential problem with vote splitting.

I don't think a lie like that would be to her advantage. If she uses the extra vote at a future tribal, people will realize that there are too many votes and tie it back to Lauren's not voting.

21 hours ago, MerBearHou said:

I don't blame Ben one bit for getting emotional about Joe saying he "swore on the Marines".  Joe was particularly ugly in that moment by pushing Ben's buttons with regards to his military service and if the "swearing on" is a total lie (I think it is), I would have been just as upset/livid as Ben if not more.  Military service is a particularly sensitive subject and for Ben, something very meaningful and painful.  I don't hold it against Ben in the slightest for his reaction. First, you're being misquoted which is so maddening; second, you're being goaded by Joe about a painful topic; third, that topic involves military service on behalf of your country in god-knows-where.  I hadn't been anti-Joe before then (yes, he's bombastic but I didn't mind him), but now he's on my NO list.   

The fourth thing is that Joe was doing it just for his own personal amusement. He found it entertaining to get Ben riled up like that. And Ben knew exactly what Joe was doing and why, but couldn't control his reaction. (Which probably made Ben even angrier.)

[cooksdelight]

I got to thinking about Ryan finding the idol and telling Chrissy.... I’d have kept my mouth shut, kept on digging and let everyone think someone else found it and hid it. As they did with Cole. 

[ProfCrash]

Desi said in her Rob Has a Podcast interview that she was not counting votes at tribal and she was not aware of the wonky count. I a would guess that some other folks noticed, I am thinking of Chrissy and Ryan, but they are likely to discuss it on their won and not with the entire group.

[peachmangosteen]

Another thing I caught while rewatching the idol scene is that JP for sure saw Ryan get the idol. He looked down right at it when Ryan was putting it in his pants. Now, it is JP, so there's probably still a good possibility he doesn't know Ryan has it though.

[Rachel RSL]

2 hours ago, himela said:

I just listened to Desi's interview with Rob and SHE even said she tried to approach Chrissy but she had no interest of working with Desi and Desi added that Chrissy didn't want to work with women and especially women who were a threat to her. I mean, how many more women do some people need to hear the same story from in order to be convinced that f$_&-+ing Chrissy hates women???

 

So, basically, Chrissy has her own alliance that she's working with and, if someone who she isn't working with approaches her to try to get something going and Chrissy says no (because she already has an alliance that she trusts), that means Chrissy automatically hates women? Out of all these women who are supposedly telling the same story about how Chrissy didn't want to work with them, how many have actually stated the facts: Chrissy already had an alliance and was doing really well in the game so she had no need to possibly mess up her game by switching allies. And I really don't understand why she's still taking heat for not saving Katrina. Why should she have wasted her advantage on someone she barely knew, knowing that it would have put a huge target on her back? (And why is Chrissy obligated to work with other women anyway? Especially if it isn't good for her game.) NOT saving Katrina was the best strategic move she could have made, as evidenced by the good position she's in now. Honestly, numerous people in this thread have posted detailed explanations of why every single person Chrissy has been part of voting out was the absolute best strategic move for her game. Literally every single vote-out was easily justified and had nothing at all to do with the sex of the person being booted.

I guess my main question is this: If Ryan, Ben and Chrissy are all working together and have decided as a group who to vote off, why is it only Chrissy who gets accused of hating women? 

[peachmangosteen]

I think what the comments from the booted players say more than that Chrissy hates women is that her social game is not great. But I think that's pretty clear from the edit alone. It's nice to have more evidence of it though.

8 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

I guess my main question is this: If Ryan, Ben and Chrissy are all working together and have decided as a group who to vote off, why is it only Chrissy who gets accused of hating women? 

It could be because people, including myself, see Chrissy as the driving force behind her alliance. They see her as the one actually making all the decisions.

Edited November 17, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[ProfCrash]

I see Ryan and Chrissy as equal partners, like Yul and Becky. Rob and Todd discussed Chrissy on Rob Has a Podcast and I think that they had a good comparison. Sara played an open game regarding who she was going to vote out and how she was working but worked hard to be kind to everyone and not piss people off. Chrissy is clear who she is working with and how she is playing but has not put in the time to get along with people outside her alliance. She has played a strong strategic game but  very poor social game. Kind of like Ozzy always plays a good provider/challenge game and a crappy social game. Chrissy needed to watch more of Sara or Rob Mariano's game. Control the strategic game but play a good social game to go with it.

I wonder if Chrissy decided that as an "older" woman, if she tried to get along with everyone and played a strategic game she would be seen like Dawn and Lisa were seen, the back stabbing Mom who no one will vote for.

I am going to be interested to hear Chrissy's interview.

[blackwing]

I'm curious as to whether others are buying Joe's assertion that Ben is the driving force that is calling all the shots.  I wonder if Joe himself thinks that or if it's just fueled by his dislike for Ben.  

Re Lauren's advantage... when she votes twice in the future I would imagine that it would have to be explained and disclosed.  Otherwise there's just an extra vote and others could just be saying, wait a second, why didn't I ever think of doing that.  The interesting thing would be whether Lauren would have to announce she is using it, or if Jeff could just say "someone has played a secret advantage".  I'm hoping for the latter, I'd love to see Ryan and Chrissy's heads explode when they realise something happened that they were unaware of and had no control over.   I also hope the reveal of a second vote happens after Jeff makes the call for idols.

[llewis823]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:03 PM, Straycat80 said:

These people suck voting off my Desi! Now we have to suffer another week of Joe.

I told my husband it would have been Joe if Desi had not made the comments she did about people lying. That sealed her fate. If she had not said that, I think it would have been Joe going home.  Darn - wish it would have been. He reminds me of the cop guy last season - can't remember his name - but he is obnoxious in the same kind of way. (BTW - not a slam to cops - I have 2 uncles who are retired officers and I support the thin blue line!)

On 11/15/2017 at 8:04 PM, ihartcoffee said:

That 'reward' meal was disgusting,  and the men made pigs of themselves.  

I think that style of meal for reward was not one that was in place before this season started. I think this reward was meant to showcase Cole's disgusting eating habits - kind of throwing him to the wolves in a way. 

[Rachel RSL]

11 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

It could be because people, including myself, see Chrissy as the driving force behind her alliance. They see her as the one actually making all the decisions.

I could understand that except we've seen multiple scenes over the past few episodes where she is discussing who to vote out with her alliance and it isn't always her who suggests who to vote off. If it was constantly Chrissy dictating who goes, that would be one thing, but we've been shown that she isn't the one making all the decisions. If anything, it sounded like Ben was the one who wanted Desi to go over Joe. And I'm pretty sure it was Ryan who suggested that they vote out Jessica. So I guess that's why I'm confused as to why people think she's making all the decisions when we've actually seen with our own eyes that this isn't the case.

[peachmangosteen]

2 minutes ago, Rachel RSL said:

So I guess that's why I'm confused as to why people think she's making all the decisions when we've actually seen with our own eyes that this isn't the case.

I guess because not everyone sees things the same way. It's really just that simple, I think.

[llewis823]

On 11/15/2017 at 8:33 PM, cooksdelight said:

I was waiting for someone to count on their fingers.... count heads of the people there....look up with a puzzled look on their face.... and mouth the words “How can there be a tie???”  Not one of them figured it out. If they did and it was edited out, I’m going to be pissed. I want to see Probst explain it to them.

Same here. I said to the hubby - "So Lauren can't vote this time? That's not a good thing" and then when the votes were counted and nobody said anything EITHER vote about a vote being missing, I was like, "WHAT!?!"

[Special K]

Regarding the vote count, I think since there were few random single votes, and Jeff read them first, people might have lost track of how many votes were cast.  If only two people are receiving votes, it's easy to track.  I know Jeff announces how the votes are cast after each vote is revealed, but I'm not usually actively counting when there are still so many votes.  Desi herself said she didn't notice one vote was missing.

Having said that, I think it's usually hashed out back at camp who voted for whom, so I'd bet we get a reckoning next episode.

[llewis823]

And one more thing - every time they have one of these big food rewards, does anyone else wonder how not having food for so long and then eating a rich, belly-filling gorge of a meal would affect their stomach and/or create bathroom issues? I know sometimes if I eat too much rich food for one day, I may have 2 or 3 days of awful tummy cramps/bathroom issues. That would make it really hard to play in challenges and just not be super-crabby when you're trying to play a social game.

[blackwing]

5 minutes ago, llewis823 said:

And one more thing - every time they have one of these big food rewards, does anyone else wonder how not having food for so long and then eating a rich, belly-filling gorge of a meal would affect their stomach and/or create bathroom issues? I know sometimes if I eat too much rich food for one day, I may have 2 or 3 days of awful tummy cramps/bathroom issues. That would make it really hard to play in challenges and just not be super-crabby when you're trying to play a social game.

Yes.  But it's not like "real" Survivor back in the day, when all they had was rice and tapioca and whatever fruits they could find.  I swear I remember when Doritos and Mountain Dew was the reward.  Nowadays, there seem to be reward feasts every three days.  The contestants are probably aware that Monty's Revenge is likely imminent.  But when they are hungry, they probably don't care.  

The hardest thing for me if I were to be on Survivor is the lack of caffeine.  I can't make it through a workday without three 18 oz Hydroflasks of black tea.  I'd have to start weaning months in advance.  

[Guest]

That wasn't too big of a food reward.  And I think they do eat out there, despite what they claim.  I think they're still given subsistence level rice rations, at least.  We see a lot of coconut harvesting and those things are calorie bombs.  They do report the coconuts give them diarrhea.  

 

I don't understand this from a Desi exit interview.  I guess she just misspoke?  Weird that EW didn't ask her to correct it or clarify.  

http://ew.com/tv/2017/11/16/survivor-desi-williams-heroes-healers-hustlers/

Quote

On why she thinks Chrissy wanted to get rid of strong women:
“I think that’s just a part of who she is. I think she’s used to being the dominant female in a situation. And from day 1 it was clear that Chrissy was trying to keep strong females around. I don’t think that’s a game move, I think that’s Chrissy’s personality.”

 

I don't even really care if Chrissy wants to be the only strong female left.  If a man wanted to be the only strong man left he wouldn't be accused of misandry.  

[ProfCrash]

10 minutes ago, Special K said:

Regarding the vote count, I think since there were few random single votes, and Jeff read them first, people might have lost track of how many votes were cast.  If only two people are receiving votes, it's easy to track.  I know Jeff announces how the votes are cast after each vote is revealed, but I'm not usually actively counting when there are still so many votes.  Desi herself said she didn't notice one vote was missing.

Having said that, I think it's usually hashed out back at camp who voted for whom, so I'd bet we get a reckoning next episode.

eh, people lie during the rehash at camp all the time. It is how we get the wonky votes that are almost always attributed to the wrong person. It is easy enough for Lauren to lie and say she voted for Joe or Desi. Mike and Cole have good reason to not want to call out how they voted and not correcting Lauren. I think it is easy enough to work through it without raising too many eyebrows.