S11.E07: I Love Candy!

[BitterApple]

2 hours ago, sATL said:

Thanks for saying what I have been thinking. Bill and Jen love family and are grateful for the adoptions going though, but now that they have to put in the work to become a full on 100-of-the time parent, it does seem like it is a struggle.  

I wonder how much babysitting, care taking, volunteering with kids, spending time with family/friends who have kids, did they do before getting in the "hot seat". Time will tell with these two.

I think with Jen's career track, she probably had little free time for anything besides studying. 

I also think they went in to the adoptions with their eyes wide open, but part of me wonders if they aren't overwhelmed by the extent of the delays the kids have, especially Will. A FB poster summarized it perfectly when she said watching Will is like watching a kid permanently stuck in the Terrible Two's. He can't help it, but that doesn't make it any less exhausting for Bill and Jen. I know these episodes were filmed a while ago, so hopefully things are calming down in real time.

[SMama]

Jen is a neonatologist, completely different from pediatrics. I second the poster who stated with her career track Jen had very little free time. They did have an episode where a friend brought an infant to their home prior to adopting Will. Bill clowned his way through the experience. You’d be surprised how many first time parents we came across on our China trip that had done zero research on parenting. Let alone research on post institutionalized children. My husband and I could pick them within seconds. We already had a bio child, but the majority of our travel group were first time parents. People fall in love with the concept of becoming a parent, reality becomes secondary. Then reality smacks you hard and you are forced to wing it. Also, Bill and Jen adopted two children within a year. As novice parents that was a kamikaze move. They love their kids and will weather the storm, no matter how overwhelmed they are now. My concern is the older the kids are the more difficult it is to instill discipline. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by SMama

[JocelynCavanaugh]

3 hours ago, sATL said:

Just realized I didn't vote on "hair-gate 2016-2017". I vote for longer hair on Zoey.

Mainly b/c she will  look more like a little girl her age. I'm not saying she has to wear it as long as the Duggar girls, but I guess most of the little girls I've seen wear there hair just a touch longer - maybe to later put in a ballet bun, pony-tails, braids, hair bows/bands, etc - ie utilize all of the girly hair things that are in the hair aisle in Walmart and beauty supply stores, while one is at the age where it looks good to wear them. And usually when you are young, the hair is so healthy, it is quite beautiful when groomed and well conditioned.  I wonder did Jan look at the other older girls at the orphanage where Zoey was, models of girls Zoey's age, and/or the other little girls in her class before getting it cut? I'm surpised the stylist didn't offer up a suggestion.

I'm not crazy about Zoey's haircut either -- it reminds me of early 20th century girls having their hair hacked off due to fever -- but I assume it's because neither of her parents is physically able to manage longer hair. I think a bob would be a good compromise, cute but low maintenance. 

[Quof]

Quote

Jen is a neonatologist, completely different from pediatrics. I second the poster who stated with her career track Jen had very little free time.

But before reaching medical school age, most people (especially women) have been exposed to children - siblings, nieces and nephews, your parents' friends, neighbours, even babysitting.  Presumably neither Jen nor Bill was a teen babysitter.   

[Absolom]

Jen had to do a pediatric residency prior to doing a neonatology fellowship.

[humbleopinion]

Miss Zooey would definitely express herself about her choice to have long hair if she wished to have long hair.

She has her own sense of style and is not afraid to say so.

The whole family dresses impeccably and always looks great.

[Libby]

22 hours ago, Emmeline said:

Adam Sandler’s daughters age 5 & 8.

Does the eight year old look silly, yes.  Does she seem to care, no.  I’m just saying.

The ones who look silly, actually ridiculous, to me are Adam Sandler and his wife.

At least Jen and Bill are better parents than them. They don't put their children, who are much too old, in a stroller.

[Quof]

Children a lot older than that use strollers at Disney World - they have strollers with capacity of more than 75 pounds.  It's easier than expecting the children to walk miles each day.   So why not use them to keep children corralled, when nothing else seems to work?  

[Libby]

4 minutes ago, Quof said:

Children a lot older than that use strollers at Disney World - they have strollers with capacity of more than 75 pounds.  It's easier than expecting the children to walk miles each day.   So why not use them to keep children corralled, when nothing else seems to work?  

To each their own. I was at Disney World several times. I didn't feel it was necessary to use a stroller to carrall kids who were too old for a stroller. From what I saw, either did most of the other families. I saw kids that were 4ish or younger in strollers, but I never remember seeing older kids in strollers. Disney may have strollers that are capable of carrying older kids, but I never saw this phenomena as I walked through the park.

[Kohola3]

If my mom had forced me into a stroller at age 8 I think I would have applied for an adoptive parent.

[Quof]

Did you hold her hand and/or stay beside her when you were out in public?   Freedom has to be earned. 

[Kohola3]

My mother would never have humiliated me like that.  Not for any reason. There are limits.

[Bridget]

5 hours ago, JocelynCavanaugh said:

I'm not crazy about Zoey's haircut either -- it reminds me of early 20th century girls having their hair hacked off due to fever -- but I assume it's because neither of her parents is physically able to manage longer hair. I think a bob would be a good compromise, cute but low maintenance. 

A bob would be precious, stylish, age appropriate and easy for her parents to maintain! Good call!

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, but Jen said (in a Talking Head) that BIll took Zoey to the hair salon (on his own). She explained the reason for Zoey's pixie cut was because Bill loved Jen's pixie cut so much, he thought it would look great on Zoey too.

As another poster commented, it's too bad the stylist didn't try to suggest something else a wee bit more "age appropriate" for Zoey. Or, if he did, Bill probably would've insisted on the pixie cut. Zoey is so beautiful, but that haircut makes it appear as if her hair is shorter than her brother's! It's just not flattering on her. At all.

[Kohola3]

Guess I'm the only one who thinks Zoey's haircut is adorable on her. Not sure what constitutes "age appropriate" for a 5 year old.  And maybe Zoey's loves it, who knows?

[BitterApple]

Zoe seems pretty vocal about her likes and dislikes, so I'm assuming she's on board with the haircut. I think she'd look best with something a little longer, but if she's happy with it then that's all that matters.

[walnutqueen]

12 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Guess I'm the only one who thinks Zoey's haircut is adorable on her. Not sure what constitutes "age appropriate" for a 5 year old.  And maybe Zoey's loves it, who knows?

I like it, too.  I think it suits her, and find the idea of "age appropriate" hairstyle to be quite perplexing.

Now, age appropriate stroller use is another matter.  ;-)

Edited November 6, 2017 by walnutqueen

[humbleopinion]

Jen and Bill have to replace Grayson, their Texan hairdresser shown on an episode or two when the show was filmed  in Houston.

http://satorisalon.com/model/grayson-jacobs-2/

Perhaps the Florida hairdresser will have some new ideas for the cast's hairdos.

[gunderda]

The only reason a stroller containers a child... is because they're too young to actually get out of it.  A stroller is not going to contain a child that is old enough to get in and out.  

And if you have a child that has issues with listening to commands.... telling them to keep their butt in a stroller isn't going to work at all. 

Edited November 6, 2017 by gunderda

[Emmeline]

23 hours ago, sATL said:

Just realized I didn't vote on "hair-gate 2016-2017". I vote for longer hair on Zoey.

Mainly b/c she will  look more like a little girl her age. I'm not saying she has to wear it as long as the Duggar girls, but I guess most of the little girls I've seen wear there hair just a touch longer - maybe to later put in a ballet bun, pony-tails, braids, hair bows/bands, etc - ie utilize all of the girly hair things that are in the hair aisle in Walmart and beauty supply stores, while one is at the age where it looks good to wear them. And usually when you are young, the hair is so healthy, it is quite beautiful when groomed and well conditioned.  I wonder did Jan look at the other older girls at the orphanage where Zoey was, models of girls Zoey's age, and/or the other little girls in her class before getting it cut? I'm surpised the stylist didn't offer up a suggestion.

My daughter got a short pixie cut at about 4 and couldn’t have been cuter.  As she grew she made her own decisions about what she wanted in regard to hair styles.  I think both Zoey and Jen looking fabulous with the short hair.  Zoey’s hair is thick and wavy.  That can make it hard to control.  You can comb it all you want and it just does whatever it wants.  Long hair on such a little girl would overwhelm her.  They also live in a very hot climate.  One day Zoey may want the long hair but for now she could not be any cuter!

[Chalby]

On 4 November, 2017 at 2:42 PM, Libby said:

I think that Jen could have done a better job if she wasn't on TV and wasn't saddled with Bill. Unfortunately, she continues to go along with both, so she is no better. She is putting Bill and the show ahead of what is best for her kids.

I think they are doing great as is. remember, they are the producers and they have total say in what gets aired. I bet they purposely let certain behaviours get aired, knowing full well what the response will be. They have two kind hearted kids, who are pretty lucky given all the material stuff they have. But I do not begrudge them a thing, nor do I mind Bill's intentional humorous TH, or annoying interference. Even Zoey's birthday party didn't bother me too much as Zoey is too much a control person like her mom. Good for her to see that not everything is in her control. (Also doubt that the cupcake fiasco was on her actual birthday.)

Edited November 6, 2017 by Chalby

[Absolom]

14 minutes ago, Chalby said:

they are the producers and they have total say in what gets aired.

Being producers gives them some credit, some extra money, but does not usually give them total say in what gets aired.  We'd have to read their contracts to know that.  The network and the executive producer get final say normally.

[camom]

My guess is that they have more say on what gets filmed than they do on what is aired.

[Bridget]

4 hours ago, walnutqueen said:

I like it, too.  I think it suits her, and find the idea of "age appropriate" hairstyle to be quite perplexing.

Now, age appropriate stroller use is another matter.  ;-)

Please allow me to clarify by what I meant about "age appropriate" - I was running low on caffeine yesterday!

I simply meant that I don't see many little girls who are the same age as Zoey who have the same haircut that she does. My point was meant to be simple: of all of the haircuts in the world, this isn't my favorite. 

2 hours ago, Emmeline said:

My daughter got a short pixie cut at about 4 and couldn’t have been cuter.  As she grew she made her own decisions about what she wanted in regard to hair styles.  I think both Zoey and Jen looking fabulous with the short hair.  Zoey’s hair is thick and wavy.  That can make it hard to control.  You can comb it all you want and it just does whatever it wants.  Long hair on such a little girl would overwhelm her.  They also live in a very hot climate.  One day Zoey may want the long hair but for now she could not be any cuter!

I understand 100% about the "difficult hair to control." You have to choose something low maintenance and easy for all, hence the short bob that someone upthread suggested.

True story: When I was a wee girl (5-8 years old), growing up in a warm climate, my mom regularly took me to the hair salon, at least once a week, so they could untangle/wash/condition/comb my thicker-than-thick, curly hair. Braiding my should length hair at night didn't save me from my own thick & curly hair. My mom couldn't bring herself (out of fear that she'd make the detangling process hurt) to sit me down and comb out the tangles, even with the miracle known as Johnson's No More Tangles spray!

[Veronique Bette]

Dear Zoey,

You have an adorable hairstyle that brings out your beautiful eyes and also has worked well with the climate in your family’s home states of Texas and Florida. But the best part is that you have not yet had to personally concern yourself about hair salons, shampoos, conditioners, blow-dryers or what is currently in style (or “on-fleek”.) Do you even know what a “bad hair day” is? No? Well, you probably will some day and trust me, you will look back on these carefree days when you felt comfortable and looked so cute with no effort at all on your part. Enjoy!

Sincerely,

Your friend, VB  (Having bad and even worse hair days for several months now).

[Libby]

Dear Zoey,

You have thick, beautiful, dark hair. It is your crowning feature. It is a shame that your mother and father cut it all off.

Sincerely, 

Libby

[booboopbedoo]

she may hate having her hair brushed so short hair is the result

[Kohola3]

I imagine Zoey has made her likes and dislikes known regarding her hair, she hardly seems shy about expressing herself.  Let's not start Hairgate after we finally put Diapergate to rest.  For the love of God, let the parents do what they want with their kids hair and let it go.

[floridamom]

Longer hair in Florida on a small child could be quite uncomfortable. It is very hot and humid here in Central Florida most of the year....add to that any physical difficulties in washing and drying a little girl's hair every night doesn't help. Her short hair cut looks cute on her for now. It's cooler and easier to maintain. JMHO

[lookeyloo]

My girlfriend has two daughters. They are grown now but when they were small she insisted on short hair because it was easier. She told them that when they could do everything themselves they could grow it out. Both of them did when they got to preteen and took on hair care. Now one has very short hair again (just had second baby) and other one has it a bit longer (also just had second baby). It is probably just so much easier for them to keep Zoey's hair short. Every morning it would be another thing to contend with - brushing out, finding hair accessory, etc. 

[sATL]

On 11/6/2017 at 2:23 PM, Bridget said:

Please allow me to clarify by what I meant about "age appropriate" - I was running low on caffeine yesterday!

I simply meant that I don't see many little girls who are the same age as Zoey who have the same haircut that she does. My point was meant to be simple: of all of the haircuts in the world, this isn't my favorite. 

Ditto for me. I would admit when I am around the biggest group of girls closest Zoey's age is a few years at ballet, music lessons , t-ball, and the years of  Daisy-to-Brownies-and now Junior scouts, I too just don't see that many who have that cut. Same is true when big sis/cousin/neighborhood pops in.

Edited November 7, 2017 by sATL

[Libby]

I prefer Zoey's hair longer. However, I realize that a little girl's hair is work in the morning when everyone has to get off to work and school. Whatever Jen and Bill want to do regarding Zoey's hair is fine. It's such an unimportant issue. She's cute both ways.

The much bigger, much more important issue, is that they can't seem to get a handle on their kids behavior and manners.

[BW Manilowe]

So, Zoey has a "pixie" haircut right now, which at least some think is unflattering & makes her look boyish. Am I the only 1 who remembers what Zoey's hair looked like on her "gotcha day" when Bill & Jen took custody of her from the orphanage where she'd lived most of her life, until the adoption. By the way, the linked photo may not be from Zoey's "gotcha day" specifically, but it is from the timeframe of "gotcha day" until Jen's emergency trip home when they didn't know she had cancer yet. 

If you ask me, Zoey's haircut then was pretty close to how she wears it now; it may have even been a little shorter (as in, I remember it with no bangs, like it has now). I don't remember any complaints about Zoey's hair then being too anything, so I guess I don't get why a similar haircut is suddenly too everything, I guess, except for feminine/girly/girlish.

Not for nothing, but I also wore my hair (& looked good) in a pixie type cut when I was about Zoey's age; my parents, or at least my mom, kept it short because between birth & about Zoey's age I needed periodic brain surgeries for 1 of my birth defects (which is related to my current funky state of health) & it was just easier to keep my hair short while I might need a surgery kind of often than to keep cutting it, then letting it grow out, then having to cut it again. Once it looked like I didn't need any surgery for awhile, I started to let my hair grow out; at 1 point it went all the way down my back, sort of like singer Crystal Gayle wears/wore her hair. Then I eventually got tired of not being able to style it much beyond pigtails & ponytails (especially since I was an adult by then) because, not only was it really long it also was oily, & I went short again; this time with a cut like Demi Moore's hair in Ghost, which I guess is another "pixie" cut, & which is how I've worn it ever since.

From the time they got home, Jen & Bill did let Zoey's hair grow longer for awhile, into a style I said--either here or in the previous forum--was similar to the hairstyle worn by the Nickelodeon animated character Dora the Explorer.

I agree Zoey probably knows how to stand up for herself. After all she was the 1, instead of Jen, who told Bill in 1 ep she wanted to get her ears pierced. I don't think they've actually had it done yet. But I know Zoey said something to Bill about it while they were eating at some restaurant. I don't think it was after she had to get shots in all 4 of her limbs, & Bill took her for at least burgers & milkshakes for being a good girl during the shots, but that's when I keep thinking it was.

Edited November 8, 2017 by BW Manilowe
To finish an unfinished sentence and to add some comments.

[SMama]

At the risk of getting tarred and feathered I would like to make a request. About the so called “gotcha day.” The term has fallen out of favor and rightfully so. In China we got wonderful jade jewelry, got Starbucks mugs, got squeaky shoes, etc. On July 8, 2008 we met our daughter. She’s not a trinket, she is a child. I’m sure Jen and or Bill used the term on TV, and it really surprises  me. Because back in 2008 it was a sore subject among the (at least all the groups I belonged to) China adoption community. It just dehumanizes our children. Hope I did not offend anyone .

Regarding Hairgate, I think Zoey looks adorable. She certainly voices her opinions, so I’d guess she is OK with her hair. I was not a fan of the Dora the Explorer do, it swallowed her face. I will now proceed to seek refuge under a rock somewhere.

Edited November 8, 2017 by SMama

[Ina123]

I think the "pixie" cut is adorable on petite women and children. Not so much on larger.

[toodles]

On 11/6/2017 at 6:31 PM, Kohola3 said:

Let's not start Hairgate AGAIN after we finally put Diapergate to rest.  For the love of God, let the parents do what they want with their kids hair and let it go.

Fixed it for ya.  We have all been there, done that.

[flyingdi]

As a girl who has had short hair since a small child, I think Zoey's hair is fine.  I had a father who liked short hair on everyone and a mother, who when it came to hairstyles, could put a barrette in.  I didn't mind short hair and even as an adult always go back to it.  Its just easier.

I will say, in this day and age, there are no gender appropriate hairstyles.  You have 5 years boys with hair to their shoulders and girls with pixies.  Who really cares anymore?

[CousinAmy]

I think Will is just about the age when the impulsive running will stop. I volunteer in an after-school program and the kids, from kindergarten to 6th grade, run around (inside, we don't have outdoor facilities) and scream for hours. I guess I'm used to the sound by now. Jen just needs to use that strict voice that Mommy and teachers have. She does need to repeat her commands several times, but that's part of her technique. Believe it or not, I use that voice, repeat instructions, and if necessary cross the room and get down to eye-level. And I do say "thank you" when they comply, because I'm showing that when they do the right thing, I acknowledge it. Having worked with toddlers and preschoolers, and now with kids from K-12, I can say that these techniques do work.

I think Supernanny is great, but I think Jen is a good parent and I'm loathe to criticize a woman who has so much in her plate. I think, for the most part, she's doing a good job. As for Bill, he loves his kids so much - and they love him.Neither Jen nor Bill is a bad parent. (And, like many of you, I know from bad parents. They are saints compared to the tense, neurotic, angry household I grew up in.)

Edited November 13, 2017 by CousinAmy

[Mollysmom]

18 hours ago, CousinAmy said:

I think Will is just about the age when the impulsive running will stop. I volunteer in an after-school program and the kids, from kindergarten to 6th grade, run around (inside, we don't have outdoor facilities) and scream for hours. I guess I'm used to the sound by now. Jen just needs to use that strict voice that Mommy and teachers have. She does need to repeat her commands several times, but that's part of her technique. Believe it or not, I use that voice, repeat instructions, and if necessary cross the room and get down to eye-level. And I do say "thank you" when they comply, because I'm showing that when they do the right thing, I acknowledge it. Having worked with toddlers and preschoolers, and now with kids from K-12, I can say that these techniques do work.

I think Supernanny is great, but I think Jen is a good parent and I'm loathe to criticize a woman who has so much in her plate. I think, for the most part, she's doing a good job. As for Bill, he loves his kids so much - and they love him.Neither Jen nor Bill is a bad parent. (And, like many of you, I know from bad parents. They are saints compared to the tense, neurotic, angry household I grew up in.)

I agree with you about kids running and screaming. Kids don't seem to be able to control themselves until they are in upper elementary/jr. high. I am a library director and there are a lot of kids that come in, and we have to tell them over and over not to run or scream inside, otherwise they need to leave. I just think until they are 10-11 years old, they don't seem to be able to walk quietly. So Will isn't that different in his behavior. Sometimes it takes telling a kids 100 times not to do something for it to stick.