S02.E04: Chapter Seventeen: The Town That Dreaded Sundown

[Affogato]

2 hours ago, Snookums said:

Technically, though, Hermione was the one committing adultery. Fred is long divorced, so unless the killer is a really hard-core Catholic I can't see why he was targeted for that. He was committing fornication, or at least pre-fornication (no actual fornicating went down) but not adultery

I’m pretty sure having sex with someone who is married is adultery. Even if you are not married. He isn’t a cheater but he is a sinner. 

 

The big deal is usually fathering children  that aren’t the husbands but that the husband will have to support. Bet that’s the origin of cuckolding. Huh. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Affogato

[thuganomics85]

Never realized that the current television landscape was really lacking in the "Outsider-like brawls in the middle of the rain between two gangs" department until now.  Thanks, Riverdale!  Although I have to doubt that Doiley is the only one who is going to the hospital after that.  I mean, I'm pretty sure I saw a few of the fighters flat-out get body-slammed into the pavement and I don't think you can just walk that off.  Granted, Archie himself barely seem to have any injuries even though Sweet Pea kicked him in the stomach hard.  I guess his abs are that powerful!  Maybe Archie's actually Thor's red-headed stepbrother!

Love that Archie's little video got pushback, but it was kind of weird how hostile a lot of the adults were.  This is a kid whose dad was just shot a few days (I think) ago.  I would think Weatherbee would have been trying to get him to see a therapist or counselor, and not just be all "Your crazy, kid!" about it.  Similarly, I would have thought Fred would be also trying to have him see someone, but he basically seems like his normal lax self, until Archie does something stupid and then he looses his mind.  I get Archie really is fucking up, but I kind of feel for him because it makes sense that he would be messed up after everything that has happened. But it really shouldn't be up to Veronica to have to bring him back.  I swear, the Riverdale adults can be useless at times.

I'm not huge on romantic relationships and I like both main couples just fine, but it is noticeable that Archie/Veronica seems to get way more hot and heavy scenes then Betty and Jughead, which is confusing since I feel like Betty/Jughead have the more open fanbase.  But they're almost being treated like Barry/Iris on The Flash (which have also gotten similar complaints.)  Do the TPTB want Archie/Veronica to be the "sexy" couple, while Betty/Jughead are the "cutsey, nice" one?  Is the network pushing K.J. Apa and Camila Mendes to be the show's "sexy eye-candy", while Cole Sprouse and Lili Reinhard are the "hot, but in a family-friendly" way stars?

Alice would use all of this to go on another Southside Serpent rant, which means that the Black-Hooded dude is so not going to be from the Southside (but she'll somehow not take responsibility in any way, once she is proven wrong because it's Alice.)

Word of advice, Mayor McCoy?  If you want to appease the town-folks and provide comfort, maybe have more then "Sheriff Keller has a plan", because if anything, that would make me even more concerned.  The only thing I would trust him with is being a supportive father to Kevin.

New Reggie is continuing to grow on me.

Not enough Cheryl, but at least she had a few scenes, while Josie and the Pussycats seemed to have just disappeared.  You're telling me Veronica couldn't even hire them to write a theme song for the Red Hoods?!

So, now it is revealed that Black Hood's connection is actually to Betty, because he was inspired by her speech to take on all the "sinners."  Still have no clue who it could be.

Hiram and Heromine continue to one-up up each other as the smuggest Lodge.

Really enjoying the actress playing Toni, but her sudden hostility to Betty was kind of jarring.  Although I did love Kevin's "I'm going to leave now." response.

Not the show's best, but I'm still loving it.  It's just so insane!

Edited November 3, 2017 by thuganomics85

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, Affogato said:

I’m pretty sure having sex with someone who is married is adultery. Even if you are not married. He isn’t a cheater but he is a sinner. 

 

The big deal is usually fathering children  that aren’t the husbands but that the husband will have to support. Bet that’s the origin of cuckolding. Huh. 

Fred was still married at that point. When Archie drunk-dialed Fred during Jughead’s birthday party it was to tell him not to sign the divorce papers. That was after Fred and Herminone were together.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Jeddah

[TwistedandBored]

17 hours ago, Snookums said:

Toni reaaalllly overplayed her hand at the Cypher Gather. I find it hard to believe someone who's apparently smart and up on human behavior would think that kind of third-grade tactic would work--at least she knew to bail and walk Kevin home (hee.) I cannot figure out what she's after--Jughead is very cute and maybe she wants out of the Serpents and sees him as a ladder? 

Much as I don't care for Toni, I really don't think this is about her wanting Jughead. I really do think the serpent are the ones that beat up Jughead to make sure he comes to them for aide and she is being sent by whoever their leader is to make sure Jughead chooses them over the North-side. So, the group think if Bughead breakup then Jughead will have no alliance to the north-side and will be completely theirs and this will make sure his father stays loyal to them too. Or, I could be completely over thinking this. 

[secnarf]

18 hours ago, wingster55 said:

The absence/minimal use of Josie is really grating. I get they want to show more of the town but it's annoying. Cut back on everyone else.

Except Reggie. He's too entrenched in Archie lore. 

Well, from what we have seen of Josie she is pretty logical/pragmatic, and also the Mayor's daughter. I'd have a hard time believing she is losing her mind and taking part in all of this, and if all they do is give her the 'voice of reason' role, that'll get annoying fast.

Add me to the list of people who think the black hood is Betty's brother.

[angora]

On Toni and Betty, I'm sure a factor is that Betty's mom is stirring up all kinds of anti-Southside shit in the paper everyday (wait till she starts writing about wanting to shut down their school) and insisting that the Black Hood must be a Southsider.  True, kids aren't their parents, but it's not like Betty is going out of her way to assure Toni that she doesn't hold the same opinions as her mom.  Given that, I could understand Toni thinking that, at the very least, Betty doesn't MIND her mom writing inflammatory stuff about the Southside, and that has to influence how Toni sees her.

[Snookums]

Quote

 Although I have to that Doiley is the only one who is going to the hospital after that.

Oh, speaking of, have to give a sincere, no-snark shout-out to the show for making it clear that Doiley did NOT pull the knife out of his leg! That is A) exactly what he should do (pulling it out will cause more injury than leaving it, plus who knows what blood vessels have been cut) and B) Doiley as a survivalist guy would know that. I can't count how many times I've watched a penetrating injury on TV and some character or other dramatically yanks out the knife/glass shard/tree branch/monster claw and think "Well, he's twice as fucked now." 

Granted, the show did manage to display various body-slams, massive blunt force trauma, and closed-head injuries that apparently had no long term effect, but, baby steps.

As for Fred and Hermione, thanks to the posters who pointed out that he had not yet signed the papers and thus both of them were committing adultery (as opposed to fornication for him and adultery for her.) Still no reason to get gunned down in a diner, though!

Edited November 3, 2017 by Snookums

[tennisgurl]

8 hours ago, thuganomics85 said:

I get Archie really is fucking up, but I kind of feel for him because it makes sense that he would be messed up after everything that has happened. But it really should be up to Veronica to have to bring him back.  I swear, the Riverdale adults can be useless at times.

Yeah, why are none of the adults trying to get Archie to a counselor or something? He is clearly acting out after witnessing his dad getting shot and almost dying, and his mom has apparently ran off instantly, but instead of getting a kid who is clearly suffering from a mental break help, they just yell at him? No wonder this town has such a high crime rate!

Edited November 3, 2017 by tennisgurl

[Snookums]

I'm playin' the organ 'cause you're preachin', tennisgurl! It's bad enough that everybody's a week late at reacting to his vigilante scheme at all but apparently mental health is just shrugged off in a community where there's been an attempted suicide, rampant gang activity and drug use, and a sixteen year old trying to become Charles Bronson.

[WhosThatGirl]

Yup. I wish Fred would have said he has to go somewhere

and talk to someone; Fred seemed more aware this week and I’ll give him a pass on being somewhat passive last week and the week before, he can only react so much, he is still recovering. But this week he seemed somewhat back on his game, he even told the The school and Keller that they could search Archie’s locker on the phone, so he should have told Archie he needs to see a counselor. 

Edited November 3, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[rmontro]

I am loving this show.  I have to admit some of it falls under the "It's so stupid it's good" category though.  I probably laugh more through this show than most comedies.  

Veronica passing out Red Circle shirts was hilarious.

Loved the "Betty's pony tail is iconic" line.  When she let her hair down, I barely recognized her.  Although part of that was because no one seems to turn on any lights on this show.

The cipher code coming from a Nancy Drew book was hilarious.  Especially since no one else was able to break it, even the police department, which presumably has access to professional code breakers.

[truthaboutluv]

16 hours ago, angora said:

On Toni and Betty, I'm sure a factor is that Betty's mom is stirring up all kinds of anti-Southside shit in the paper everyday (wait till she starts writing about wanting to shut down their school) and insisting that the Black Hood must be a Southsider.  True, kids aren't their parents, but it's not like Betty is going out of her way to assure Toni that she doesn't hold the same opinions as her mom.  Given that, I could understand Toni thinking that, at the very least, Betty doesn't MIND her mom writing inflammatory stuff about the Southside, and that has to influence how Toni sees her.

Except in the show's weird timeline, hasn't it been like less than a month since Betty wrote the article blasting the town and their treatment of the people from the Southside, defending FP, etc. So I can't buy that reasoning for Toni's catty comments against Betty. The fact is these writers just aren't very subtle, so with no real background/development, they have to drive the Toni vs. Betty crap with her suddenly making snarky and rude comments about Betty for no reason.

Edited November 3, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[galax-arena]

I'm all for the Bughead ship being broken up, although I'd prefer it if it happened because Jughead became the Black Hood's next victim. His death could propel the way for Dark Betty to arise once more in all her batshit glory. For me that'd be killing two birds with one stone because 1) ugh, Cole Sprouse and 2) I only really like Betty when she's being crazy. Definitely not interested in her being the target of a stalker with a crush. How boring. 

Toni, love yourself, girl. Don't go for that weirdo. I mean, have you ever seen him without that stupid hat? 

[PeekaBoo]

1 hour ago, galax-arena said:

I'm all for the Bughead ship being broken up, although I'd prefer it if it happened because Jughead became the Black Hood's next victim. His death could propel the way for Dark Betty to arise once more in all her batshit glory. For me that'd be killing two birds with one stone because 1) ugh, Cole Sprouse and 2) I only really like Betty when she's being crazy. Definitely not interested in her being the target of a stalker with a crush. How boring. 

Toni, love yourself, girl. Don't go for that weirdo. I mean, have you ever seen him without that stupid hat? 

So harsh! 

If they do something like that it will create a lot of backlash... doubt the show would survive without Jughead or any of the core four. There would be a lot of flaming posts from distraught bughead fans all over the world sent to the CW lol... 

And tbh, I can't see jughead being Tonis type... I really can't! 

[paulvdb]

14 minutes ago, PeekaBoo said:

And tbh, I can't see jughead being Tonis type... I really can't!

As someone who likes Vanessa Morgan and is not a fan of Jughead I hope you're right about that. Toni can do better.

[WhosThatGirl]

I personally like Jughead so I’d be sad if they killed him off, but that seems unlikely as something the show would ever do. Especially in season 2 of this show.He and Betty are my favorite characters of the teens.

[PeekaBoo]

2 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I personally like Jughead so I’d be sad if they killed him off, but that seems unlikely as something the show would ever do. Especially in season 2 of this show.He and Betty are my favorite characters of the teens.

Me too... they really did a good job at making Archie an unlikable character and its annoying bc hey it's freaking Archie. I'm really hoping the show will make him better... so far so good but going vigilante the way he did was a bit too laughable and cheesy tbh... 

While bughead are just so freaking cute that its disgusting lol. Two characters that are so flawed with their own struggles but still very grounded.... sometime you think they are the only people in the whole town that make sense... and theyre just kids!  

Killing off half a bughead would create such a storm... i fear the reaction afterwards.... hey, I'm just afraid if they go for Barchie og a Toni/Jug hookup?....

The horror that awaits us... ??

[rmontro]

9 hours ago, galax-arena said:

I'm all for the Bughead ship being broken up, although I'd prefer it if it happened because Jughead became the Black Hood's next victim. His death could propel the way for Dark Betty to arise once more in all her batshit glory. For me that'd be killing two birds with one stone because 1) ugh, Cole Sprouse and 2) I only really like Betty when she's being crazy.

Nah, I don't want to see Jughead killed off.  I'll confess I didn't like his character at first, and thought he made for an odd narrator of the show.  But he's since grown on me.  And I'd rather see Betty with him than mooning after Archie.

As for Crazy Betty, I like her too, but I think she's more effective used sparingly, like salt to season a meal.

[WhosThatGirl]

I think my issue with Toni being all angry at Betty is that Betty doesn’t hate the Seprets, as someone pointed out she wrote that article in the season finale and according to the shows timeline, it’s only been a week or two at the most since that went down. However almost all of the characters have been kind of 180 since the season finale. The problem is, I think that originally when the season one finale was shot they added different endings and scenes because they didn’t know if they were getting to get a second season ( if you don’t believe me, you should check out the deleted scenes from season one).

[morakot]

I'm presuming the Southside High School is in the southern part of Riverdale -- why aren't those parents at the all-Riverside meeting at the Town Hall? Isn't Josie's mother the mayor of ALL of Riverside?  I assume if they closed SHS down, everyone there would move to the Riverside HS because the all-Riverside mayor would not leave half the teenagers in the town to wander around uneducated. Perhaps Josie could point this out to her mother... That would bring her into the main story without having to sing.

 

My thought about Toni and her antipathy to Betty was that Toni saw Betty as a brainless, empty-headed white cheerleader who could not possibly have anything relevant to add to the case. I thought Betty did well in avoiding conflict or possessiveness of Jughead. She was being remarkably mature. I like Toni, she's bright and mostly sensible. There is no reason -- other than DRAMA -- why she could be friends with Betty, Jughead, and Kevin.  Maybe when they're all in one school...

[PeekaBoo]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I think my issue with Toni being all angry at Betty is that Betty doesn’t hate the Seprets, as someone pointed out she wrote that article in the season finale and according to the shows timeline, it’s only been a week or two at the most since that went down. However almost all of the characters have been kind of 180 since the season finale. The problem is, I think that originally when the season one finale was shot they added different endings and scenes because they didn’t know if they were getting to get a second season ( if you don’t believe me, you should check out the deleted scenes from season one).

Loved the deleted scenes! Skeet really did some good acting there. 

I get the alternative endings and all but why did the writers  not go on from there and incorporate that into this season? Doesn't make much to turn things around... (not complaining, still love this show no matter what...)

 

2 minutes ago, morakot said:

I'm presuming the Southside High School is in the southern part of Riverdale -- why aren't those parents at the all-Riverside meeting at the Town Hall? Isn't Josie's mother the mayor of ALL of Riverside?  I assume if they closed SHS down, everyone there would move to the Riverside HS because the all-Riverside mayor would not leave half the teenagers in the town to wander around uneducated. Perhaps Josie could point this out to her mother... That would bring her into the main story without having to sing.

 

My thought about Toni and her antipathy to Betty was that Toni saw Betty as a brainless, empty-headed white cheerleader who could not possibly have anything relevant to add to the case. I thought Betty did well in avoiding conflict or possessiveness of Jughead. She was being remarkably mature. I like Toni, she's bright and mostly sensible. There is no reason -- other than DRAMA -- why she could be friends with Betty, Jughead, and Kevin.  Maybe when they're all in one school...

Careful what you wish for lol... Alice's little speech of closing SSHS is sooo going to bite her in the ass....

That's what i still dont get, ss is part of the town right? Does mccoy not care about them? Or the sheriff when it comes to the drugs and violence that roams on wvery street it seems...

Toni is sassy. Got to give her that. 

Betty surprised me whem she let go of everything. I was like damn girl, stand up for yourself and for your boy... a confrontation would have made things a lkt worse...

[kmcarte]

On 11/1/2017 at 9:01 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

Alice wants to close Southside High? Uh then all those troubled teens would be going to Riverdale High, wouldn’t they?  Okay what the hell are the Lodges planning? Fred’s going to be a problem for what? Also.. yes Jughead and Betty run into the townhall and tell them the blackhood is coming there!

Right? It's like she thinks she was talking about a prison not a high school.   she sounded like a moron that whole speech.   

 

On 11/1/2017 at 9:19 PM, WhosThatGirl said:

I don’t know. Something about this episode felt off as I said earlier. I’ll be alone in my boat though. I liked this episode. I just worry we have so Many new characters and that’s a little too much going on and we barley know what’s goin in with the ones we have already. 

I think the show's run time is too short of what they're trying to do with it.   Every scene needs to breathe a bit and we need time in between plot heavy scenes for them to actually develop the relationships.  Like, I guess we're not even talking about  FP anymore? Not even a few sentences.  Imagine if they had given the plot of this show the pacing of a show like The OC.  Say what you want about it, but the best part of that show was the bits where characters were just being themselves with other characters, this show has like two of those moments a season, and they usually monologue over them.  

 

On 11/1/2017 at 10:12 PM, Jeddah said:

It was ridiculous for Betty to think she should keep the letter a secret and handle it on her own. I expect that sort of stupidity from Archie, not Betty.

The rumble did seem like it was straight out of The Outsiders. S.E. Hinton has been an extra over on Supernatural. Can they get her to be on Riverdale too? She really needs to be the Matriarch of the Serpents or something. How great would that be?

In a way it's kind of in character though.  She didn't want to hide the information, she was just ashamed/embarrassed about being in the middle of something like that.  So worried about what people would think...

it would be too great if Hinton came to do an episode.  I must have read the Outsiders a dozen times when I was 14. 

 

It doesn't make any sense that everyone assumes it's someone from the Southside.  Literally all the crime we have seen since the show began was either perpetrated by a Northsider, or heavily influenced by one.  Hiding behind a mask while you dole out judgement and punishment on people's sins while refusing to recognize your own is possibly the most Northside behavior in existence.  In fact, are we sure BH isn't Alice Cooper?  She's been in the know about all of the punished sins so far, and this is full on her exact MO 

Edited November 4, 2017 by kmcarte

[dwmckim]

Did i blink during this episode's blink-and-you'll-miss-it no-dialogue appearance of Josie and the Pussycats?  Or was that role totally filled by Cheryl this episode...girl shouldn't hang around with the cats, otherwise stuff like this happens!  Or maybe she's just becoming much more like her twin brother?

If it would just have been Archie in the video, i could get on board with the others who've mentioned the reaction by the town was overdone - but he had a whole group of other kids in it appearing "anonymously" and stripped down and as a parent, i'd be concerned that so many others are being brought into this - not only inciting the focus of more violent attacks but perhaps some more Grundy's as well (I mean how many of the kids' parents came home to "THIS is what you guys do when you get together?  Maybe you need new friends?"

Major missed opportunity - if i was Veronica and wanted to have everyone wear shirts with red targets, i'd just have them all wear Target (i.e. the store) shirts.  That way, if confronted by someone/getting in trouble about it, they could just claim "Oh it's not about THAT - Target's just really in right now".  From a show standpoint, that could have been some sly cross-promotion/product placement.

[Affogato]

Hermiones lecture to Veronica about loyalty seems to speak to Hermione’s relationship with Hiram. When they discuss Fred being a problem, though, what do they mean? Clearly the Hiram agenda requires a divided Riverdale, I get that but I’m still not sure I get what the advantage will be. Does he plan on stepping in and being the hero, next mayor, etc. 

15 minutes ago, dwmckim said:

Did i blink during this episode's blink-and-you'll-miss-it no-dialogue appearance of Josie and the Pussycats?  

Spoiler

In one of the comics the pussycats are ancient fascism fighting vampires  you’d wonder if they would, in that case, be better placed on Sabrina’s show  

They have been absent as has Archie’s interest in music. They may be trying to figure out how to integrate them into the story. 

[Dee]

Yet the show has no problem finding things for other non-'Core 4' Riverdale High students to do.

[MarkHB]

On 11/3/2017 at 1:51 AM, rmontro said:

The cipher code coming from a Nancy Drew book was hilarious.  Especially since no one else was able to break it, even the police department, which presumably has access to professional code breakers.

While I realize that a lot of this is "because the writers wanted it that way," that was a really short message and those can be hard to analyze because it's such a small sample. 

[Enginerd]

I don't blame Toni for being peeved at Betty. Betty kind of doubled down on the idea of the Black Mask being a Southsider..."he's basically going after anyone who's a Northsider", she said...as if there is any evidence of that. There are hundreds of Northsiders who have never been attacked! Three attacks. Four victims, one of whom was not hurt. One was no longer living in Riverdale. Also, the shooter said he was inspired by the Jubilee speech. It never seems like there are many Southsiders, if any, at these events that "everyone in town" supposedly attended. Hard to imagine why they wouldn't feel welcome. Although I suppose anyone could have heard about the speech later.

[starri]

I love that the Southside cafeteria set is just the Riverdale High cafeteria set, darkened, and with a chain-link fence put in.  It's like a Mirror Universe episode of Star Trek.

Also, why would a cafeteria, even one at a "bad" school, need a chain-link fence?

Dilton may be Riverdale's doomsday prepper, but how useful would he be to the other Socs in a rumble?

[mariekristen]

On 11/1/2017 at 9:22 PM, AdorkableSars said:

Toni...girl, you were hostile to poor Betty and her iconic ponytail tonight.

Right? Bad move on her part... but also the birth of possibly one of my favorite lines so far?

This episode had A LOT - it's hard to believe that this isn't taking place somewhere later in the season, and that we still have so much more to go. Makes me wonder what kind of cheesy twists and turns they'll take to play it out. 

Nevertheless, I thought this episode was really good. I really enjoyed the whole Nancy Drew book element and decoding part, even though Toni had to get all involved in it (I think she's officially starting to annoy me now). Also, during the ponytail scene, was Jughead laughing at Kevin's remark, or laughing with Toni? It was subtle, but I hope he wasn't laughing with Toni, that would be a real dick move.

Quote

And then we'll listen to My Favorite Murder.

But, Toni and Jughead's discussion of true crime made me think of the same thing! I'm so excited I'm not the only listener here!

 I enjoyed the fighting scene, and thought it was really well played out - yes, the serpents (presumably) said they wouldn't bring weapons, but I guess we can't really trust them. So... does the football team kind of deserve it, for getting involved in a useless battle? I mean, they don't know who the killer is, and he could be a serpent, but I just feel like the serpents are involved enough in their own violence that they don't have to put a hood on and go parading around town as a 'secret criminal'. They're already considered 'real criminals' by everyone else, anyways (at least everyone on the north side). Did they have to shoot it in the rain though? I realize the rain played out it's part in the rest of the episode, but it just seemed a bit much.

Once again, I can't figure out (and it creeps me out) what Hiram and Hermoine are up to! Why wouldn't they want the two halves more so united (or at least not against each other)? What do they have planned? Also why??? Also - regarding Hiram's little plan with Archie - didn't he know Archie would tell Veronica that her dad told him, or at least advised him, to do this? If he's smart enough to have this secret plot, he should be smart enough to know how innocent and honest Archie is - that's why he targeted him in the first place!

I don't know... I guess I'll see how it plays out with the next episodes.

[PeekaBoo]

6 hours ago, mariekristen said:

This episode had A LOT - it's hard to believe that this isn't taking place somewhere later in the season, and that we still have so much more to go. Makes me wonder what kind of cheesy twists and turns they'll take to play it out. 

I agree! I mean, its like what, couple of days or max 1 week after the shooting and its already the fourth episode?! Its like the whole town is in an uproar already on the brick of self-implosion! Yes, the overdramatic twists are quite frightful and the fast pace in the storyline makes me worry at how much it will change throughout the season... its exciting, but scary as well... Keeps you on your toes though...

6 hours ago, mariekristen said:

 I enjoyed the fighting scene, and thought it was really well played out - yes, the serpents (presumably) said they wouldn't bring weapons, but I guess we can't really trust them. So... does the football team kind of deserve it, for getting involved in a useless battle? I mean, they don't know who the killer is, and he could be a serpent, but I just feel like the serpents are involved enough in their own violence that they don't have to put a hood on and go parading around town as a 'secret criminal'. They're already considered 'real criminals' by everyone else, anyways (at least everyone on the north side). Did they have to shoot it in the rain though? I realize the rain played out it's part in the rest of the episode, but it just seemed a bit much.

It wouldn't have been dramatic without the rain!! Lol!!! It was sooo delicious to see! Boys fighting stupidly over some dumb argument!!! How much cheesy tv is that lol!!! It was fun to watch though!!!

[Bec]

22 hours ago, dwmckim said:

Major missed opportunity - if i was Veronica and wanted to have everyone wear shirts with red targets, i'd just have them all wear Target (i.e. the store) shirts.  That way, if confronted by someone/getting in trouble about it, they could just claim "Oh it's not about THAT - Target's just really in right now".  From a show standpoint, that could have been some sly cross-promotion/product placement.

I did think they were wearing Target logos, and it made me laugh and laugh. But I guess they can't really be Target logos because Target wouldn't want their brand associated with a crazy-ass teen gang, as well intentioned as that teen gang might be.

It did make me think "you are basically taunting the gun-toting maniac to come shoot you in the chest when you're all wearing big red targets" These people don't have much in the way of self-preservation instinct, do they?

And it's just hilarious that Archie thinks spray-painting crummy red circles on random people's houses will scare the serial killer or something. Like this is the most "badass" thing Archie can think of to do. If I caught him spray-painting my house, I think I'd be like "aw, kid, it's almost adorable how much of a dumbass you are" instead of getting seriously pissed off. Kind of like how you can't get too mad at a toddler for making a mess.

[Enginerd]

2 minutes ago, Bec said:

I did think they were wearing Target logos, and it made me laugh and laugh. But I guess they can't really be Target logos because Target wouldn't want their brand associated with a crazy-ass teen gang, as well intentioned as that teen gang might be.

It did make me think "you are basically taunting the gun-toting maniac to come shoot you in the chest when you're all wearing big red targets" These people don't have much in the way of self-preservation instinct, do they?

And it's just hilarious that Archie thinks spray-painting crummy red circles on random people's houses will scare the serial killer or something. Like this is the most "badass" thing Archie can think of to do. If I caught him spray-painting my house, I think I'd be like "aw, kid, it's almost adorable how much of a dumbass you are" instead of getting seriously pissed off. Kind of like how you can't get too mad at a toddler for making a mess.

I thought the same thing! "WHY are you all putting targets on your chests?!?!" Archie may be in a downward mental spiral and have a death wish (although not too much of one...he did buy a kevlar vest along with the gun), but what's Veronica's excuse?

I also liked how Archie picked the most clean and well-lit dark alley ever to do his spray-painting in. So badass. He may as well yell "Guts! Guts guts guts!" at everyone to show how defiant he is.

Sweetie Pie looks so much like Jughead. Any chance that's intentional and they are related? Maybe he knows or suspects this and he resents Jughead for being the legitimate offspring and that's why he's been antagonistic toward him since they met?

[sweetandsour]

Oh man. This show.

1.  Mrs. Blossom seems to have healed SUPER FAST from her third-degree burns? She's out in public with no bandages and her skin exposed, which didn't look 100% but she's obviously going to be just fine. I get they didn't want to actually have Cheryl's mom scarred throughout the rest of her run, but why didn't they just write her as having mostly first-degree and a little bit of second-degree burns instead? I'm almost positive they said third-degree in the premiere.

2. The writers had better know 100% who the serial killer is, and every clue or context detail had better make sense in the end. (Oddly, many shows will start a mystery and figure out along the way what the answer is ...) They really went specific with the Black Hood knowing that Betty used to check out that Nancy Drew book all the time as a kid. If I ever had a stalker who knew I used to check out The Phantom Tollbooth every week in, like, third grade, I would have to begrudgingly give him props for his level of stalking ...

3. Almost nothing anyone did this episode made any sense to me. Starting with Alice's fit in the very beginning about how she needs to protect her children. Like she doesn't get that Polly's trying to do the exact same thing for her incest babies??? Polly's proximity to Alice puts her in danger because of Alice's active role in the serial killer situation, plus she's so sanctimonious that she's exactly the kind of person a sin-hater would want to punish for their hypocritical sins. And Polly absolutely had a point that she's a candidate for sinner punishment. Alice must understand this.

4. Betty needed to give the manila envelope that housed the letter to the police, but I feel like I never saw it again after Betty opened it. Though maybe in this world, Miss Congeniality doesn't exist and they don't understand they can may be able to get forensic clues off the envelope and the licking of the envelope.

5. I LOL'ed SO HARD at that janky fake ID Archie used at the gun store. I have no doubt that's what Riverdale licenses really look like (not that it was a poor attempt and the clerk just let it go), but LOLOL!!!!!  It had no state information anywhere. They are really committed to keeping the location of Riverdale vague/secret. All we know is it's not that far from the Canadian border.  In my mind now, Archie really is "Wilbur Wilkins."

6. I also LOL'ed at the town hall meeting when Alice explicitly called out Fred as support for her argument, Fred stood up and shot her down, and then Alice rolled her eyes and said, "as usual, Fred turns the other cheek."  LOL then why did you even try to hold him up as an example, Alice!

7. In a future episode, I fully expect Veronica to yell during an argument with Archie, as proof of how much she loves him or what she's done for him, "and I stuck my hand in a TOILET TANK for you!"

8. Serial killers are FBI territory, aren't they? Or do they have to surpass some kind of threshold that the Black Hood hasn't met yet? Or does Riverdale exist in a world where no one outside of local police force will ever intervene in serious crimes?

9. I seriously lost count of how many crimes Archie committed in this episode alone.

[Bec]

Oh man, the gun in the toilet tank. Did Archie learn that from The Godfather? Though maybe that trick has been used again in newer TV shows and movies.

34 minutes ago, sweetandsour said:

8. Serial killers are FBI territory, aren't they? Or do they have to surpass some kind of threshold that the Black Hood hasn't met yet? Or does Riverdale exist in a world where no one outside of local police force will ever intervene in serious crimes?

It doesn't help that I binge-watched Mindhunter before watching this episode. Now all the serial killer stuff on this show just makes me wish I can be watching more episodes of that show right now.

If the FBI even shows up in Riverdale, I bet they'll be totally incompetent just so the plot can end up with the teens solving this thing, and when the guy is caught he'll be all "I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!"

[Bort]

1 hour ago, sweetandsour said:

Serial killers are FBI territory, aren't they? Or do they have to surpass some kind of threshold that the Black Hood hasn't met yet? Or does Riverdale exist in a world where no one outside of local police force will ever intervene in serious crimes?

I think they have to cross state lines for the FBI to take over. It’s still the local cops jurisdiction even if it’s a serial killer.

[CrazyDog]

3 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

Oh man. This show.

1.  Mrs. Blossom seems to have healed SUPER FAST from her third-degree burns? She's out in public with no bandages and her skin exposed, which didn't look 100% but she's obviously going to be just fine. I get they didn't want to actually have Cheryl's mom scarred throughout the rest of her run, but why didn't they just write her as having mostly first-degree and a little bit of second-degree burns instead? I'm almost positive they said third-degree in the premiere.

I've missed something with that whole storyline. Last season, didn't we see Cheryl and her mom outside of the burning house? How did she even get burned to begin with?

I love that there was an old-fashioned rumble, lol. Stay gold, show.

Reggie is growing to be a favorite character. The perfect combo of devious, yet oddly loyal.

Toni could be a great character, but damn, she bugged this episode.

I am hooked on this show and hope it sticks around.

[Bugs Meany]

8 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

5. I LOL'ed SO HARD at that janky fake ID Archie used at the gun store. I have no doubt that's what Riverdale licenses really look like (not that it was a poor attempt and the clerk just let it go), but LOLOL!!!!!  It had no state information anywhere. They are really committed to keeping the location of Riverdale vague/secret. All we know is it's not that far from the Canadian border.

A season 1 deleted scene revealed that Riverdale is in New York, which feels right. I was more amused by Kevin’s membership on RedStateMeat.com. I guess they’re trying to make its location more vague now.

[Enginerd]

13 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

The writers had better know 100% who the serial killer is, and every clue or context detail had better make sense in the end. (Oddly, many shows will start a mystery and figure out along the way what the answer is ...)

Amen to that. After a rewatch of the last couple episodes, I am at least 90% certain I know who the Black Hood is...now I assume I have to wait the rest of the season to find out whether I'm right. But if they reverse-engineer the identity such that the clues we have so far are supposed to be irrelevant, to the point where you can tell the identity wasn't set and the clues weren't correct all along, I'm going to be annoyed. Plot twists and multiple levels of trickery and obfuscation are okay with me, but pretending we didn't see tiny things we saw is not. Everything plotwise needs a reasonable explanation, even in this wacky town where the weather makes no sense.

By the way, the trees are now fully green and they've been outside in shorts and short sleeves in this episode, which would suggest it is at least April. If Polly already knew she was pregnant and they had made plans to run away by July 4, shouldn't her babies be born ANY SECOND? Although of course in Riverdale it could be January and the town could hold its annual outdoor beach party complete with wet t-shirt contests, or the Strawberry Harvest Festival, or whatever. Time has little relevance here.

[sweetandsour]

11 hours ago, CrazyDog said:

I've missed something with that whole storyline. Last season, didn't we see Cheryl and her mom outside of the burning house? How did she even get burned to begin with?

At first, I did a double-take in the premiere for the same reason when Cheryl came into the hospital with her mother on the gurney with burns. When Cheryl was at her mother's bedside later, threatening her in the most ominous way I've ever seen her, Cheryl basically said they were going to keep secret how the fire really started and how Mrs. Blossom ran back into the house to rescue this God-awful family portrait from the fire. (The public story is that Mrs. Blossom went back into the house to rescue Cheryl and a breeze from an open window + knocked-over candle started the fire.)  Cheryl told her mother that if she doesn't comply, Cheryl will tell people what really happened in the barn with Mr. Blossom. So I guess at some point we'll get back to that barn mystery ... like in episode 2.14 ...

Maybe by then, they'll also address a hanging thread from season 1 - Archie and his weird feelings about wolves / wolf masks / whatever that was???

[AdorkableSars]

On 11/1/2017 at 7:58 PM, tennisgurl said:

I liked Toni well enough last week, but this week so was seriously nasty to Betty when Betty was really trying to be nice, and that really turned me off. Looks like she will probably be an obstacle to Bughead, but I hope they end up doing more with her. 

Preach!! Please don't let her just be here to be detriment to Bughead. They can and should do so much more with her. I think Betty and Jughead will have enough issues to deal with without adding the tired love triangle trope. And I hope if she is to be an obstacle to Bughead, it's not romantically so. Just that she's trying to pull Jughead more towards the Southside's side. 

On 11/2/2017 at 2:37 PM, PeekaBoo said:

Bughead is breaking my little bughead heart. Jughead I think is sorta beginning to feel helpless or way over his head with all the Serpents crap that's being thrown at him. He can't escape what's happening to him and when Toni came along in that scene and gently put her hand on his shoulder, I got the feeling that he sorta couldn't say no, out of fear of retaliation... The boy's scared and goddammit he's making poor decisions! Trying to been the "good" boyfriend by keeping Betty at bay for whatever noble reason... He's done this before and he's just continuing and like someone has already said, FP warned Archie about it... What makes it worse is seeing Betty going through this as well, she knows what she's up against when it comes to Toni, she didn't bother arguing about Jughead ignoring her call, she's trying hard to ignore the problems but she's struggling, she's cracking and i'm afraid she'll start to implode very soon, especially with the ending of the episode... It's sad to see. I just read somewhere that its speculating that BH might force Betty to break up with Jughead... Hopefully it's just a stupid rumour but it would make sense if he wants her for herself...

Well said. Betty and Jughead both seem to be feeling very helpless, and are keeping secrets from each other to maybe try and protect each other and their relationship? One of the reasons I so adore Bughead is how well they communicate. It seems as though their communication is falling apart with all of the shit going down in Riverdale/their lives, which makes sense. I hope they can start being honest with each other again, and be there for each other. 

On 11/3/2017 at 11:33 PM, morakot said:

I'm presuming the Southside High School is in the southern part of Riverdale -- why aren't those parents at the all-Riverside meeting at the Town Hall? Isn't Josie's mother the mayor of ALL of Riverside?  I assume if they closed SHS down, everyone there would move to the Riverside HS because the all-Riverside mayor would not leave half the teenagers in the town to wander around uneducated. Perhaps Josie could point this out to her mother... That would bring her into the main story without having to sing.

Hear, hear! This damn show makes it seem like the Southside is an entirely different town/jurisdiction. It doesn't make sense. 

On 11/5/2017 at 6:39 AM, mariekristen said:

But, Toni and Jughead's discussion of true crime made me think of the same thing! I'm so excited I'm not the only listener here!

Oh heyyyyy fellow Murderino!!!!!!

15 hours ago, sweetandsour said:

Oh man. This show.

4. Betty needed to give the manila envelope that housed the letter to the police, but I feel like I never saw it again after Betty opened it. Though maybe in this world, Miss Congeniality doesn't exist and they don't understand they can may be able to get forensic clues off the envelope and the licking of the envelope.

Your whole post was gold, but 4. especially. I never even though of this, but duhhhh, yeah. The envelope could have clues as to who the killer is. DNA from the envelope licking for sure (unless the killer uses one of those envelope moisteners), but maybe more. 

[morakot]

3 minutes ago, AdorkableSars said:

The envelope could have clues as to who the killer is. DNA from the envelope licking for sure (unless the killer uses one of those envelope moisteners), but maybe more. 

Padded brown envelopes like these often have a pre-glued strip under a removable piece of plastic. No licking involved. 

[AdorkableSars]

7 minutes ago, morakot said:

Padded brown envelopes like these often have a pre-glued strip under a removable piece of plastic. No licking involved. 

Good point! My work is too cheap for spring for those, so we have to lick, or use the aformentioned envelope moistener that doesn't really work...

[sweetandsour]

It just occurred to me that I would love if "Riverdale" pulled a "One Tree Hill" with Betty's brother - he comes to town posing as her brother, only it turns out that he's NOT really her brother and he's a crazy psycho stalker who's totally obsessed with her - killing in her name - and wants her all to himself! Bonus points if he has bizarrely huge tattoos and he chases her through her own house in a dramatic showdown. All the points if she pushes him out of a second story window and when she checks later, he's no longer lying on the front lawn. I don't even care if it's a blatant rip-off; I want it!!

Every single point in the present and collective TV future if her real brother comes to town and he's black! Not sure how they could do this with Alice around (I'm assuming she knows enough about her child's race to not mistake a white actor for her non-white son), but if any show can do it, it's Riverdale. They've already suspended ultimate belief by making people fawn all over Archie's music.

[WhosThatGirl]

I very much hope they are NOT doing that with Betty’s brother. It was terrible on OTH. I’m sorry it was. Ugh. Also it was on OTH and the new 90210 had an imposter brother too, the real brother didn’t end up being black but when the real one eventually did turn up. So hopefully if we ever meet the Betty brother it’s the actual real one.

Edited November 6, 2017 by WhosThatGirl

[sweetandsour]

1 minute ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I very much hope they are NOT doing that with Betty’s brother. It was terrible on OTH. I’m sorry it was. Ugh. Also it was on OTH and the new 90210 had an imposter brother too, the real brother didn’t end up being black but when the real one eventually did turn up. So hopefully if we ever meet the Betty brother it’s the actual real one.

OMG it WAS terrible, that's why that kind of bananas makes me laugh! It would be a real Jump the Shark moment on any show, though. OTH took it so seriously, too, it was like yikes.

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, sweetandsour said:

OMG it WAS terrible, that's why that kind of bananas makes me laugh! It would be a real Jump the Shark moment on any show, though. OTH took it so seriously, too, it was like yikes.

Well everything was so serious in OTH. The brother thing was so bad. I remember that terrible prom episode where he locked Peyton and Brooke in the basement. Ugh. 

On the Black Hood killer, I have a few ideas as well based on what we have seen. At the same time.. I don’t put it past the show to bait and switch us if they feel people are speculating too closely(plenty of

shows viewers figured out the endings and the show stitched it at the 11th hour) or if they really don’t have a game plan. They can change their minds if they want. They still have 20 more episodes to go- it can’t be as easy as it was for me to choose my speculations. 

[secnarf]

Ugh don't even mention that OTH storyline! That was the moment I was like WTF am I watching, and gave up on OTH. (I did half-heartedly watch for a little while longer, but mentally I was done). I hope they don't go that route here. It's too early for that!

[WhosThatGirl]

13 minutes ago, secnarf said:

Ugh don't even mention that OTH storyline! That was the moment I was like WTF am I watching, and gave up on OTH. (I did half-heartedly watch for a little while longer, but mentally I was done). I hope they don't go that route here. It's too early for that!

It was terrible. I watched OTH all the way till the end and suffered through terrible terrible storylines with that show(a crazy baby, a dog eating a heart transplant) but for some reason the Faux brother was the worst, mostly because they took it so seriously. 

[UNOSEZ]

I liked the black half-brother on oth.. He was a good influence on Peyton... But yeah Matt Barr was in full mega creep mode... But I dont think Riverdale will go there.. Woulda been interesting if he was a half black kid who lived on the southside for a while.. Then left and came back somewhat successful even sweeter if he was the coaches kid..meaning he would be chucks half brother as well...(drama).. So none of the core four are ever gonna get in trouble?.. I mean Archie was trespassing vandalizing and assaulting ppl also waving guns.. And.. Nothing.. Betty drugs and handcuffs a guy in a hot tub leaves him to possibly drown.. Nothing.. Ah well love the show... Plz don't make Toni only be here for triangle drama... Plz allow Josie to do something... Maybe not music related... Just u know let her speak... 

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

It was terrible. I watched OTH all the way till the end and suffered through terrible terrible storylines with that show(a crazy baby, a dog eating a heart transplant) but for some reason the Faux brother was the worst, mostly because they took it so seriously. 

Okay, now I’m imagining OTH storylines as narrated by Jughead. I would love to hear his sardonic take on events like a dog eating a human heart that an EMT dropped.