S02.E04: Chapter Seventeen: The Town That Dreaded Sundown

[The Crazed Spruce]

Quote

Mayor McCoy calls an emergency town hall meeting to deal with the growing chaos in Riverdale; Betty finds herself at the center of a deepening mystery; tensions between the North and Southside come to a head and leads to an unexpected showdown.

[WhosThatGirl]

Another new episode.. yay. And once again I feel a sense of happiness mixed with apprehension and dread, I worry so much about these episodes before they even start about the outcome. 

Still not sold on The Lodge Family, I don’t really find them interesting to watch when it’s just them in a scene. Also Veronica’s “I’m not doing anything until I hear Archie’s side of the story” uh.. hasn’t he been telling you HIS side of the story since Fred’s been shot? He’s been acting cagey and with red sleepless eyes since. This shouldn’t be breaking news to her.  But also ha! Veronica totally just quoted all of her forum posts about that video.. so points for that, V!

 

Hey look consequences for terrible actions. Football is cancelled.. forever!  And this might be just a way for the show to let go of the football thing for a little.

 

Betty’s letter and the Black Hood killer doing it all for her..okay. and her speech inspired killings? Um.. once again. Okay, that makes no sense to me. But God Kevin is a voice of reason, Betty shouldn’t be hunting killers.

 

Alice Cooper is scary but not scary enough to scare a killer, sorry Alice.

 

Also another unlikely voice of reason: Reggie. He just wants to play football and not fight killers. And deal drugs sometimes. Which.. I mean I Can’t fault him for that. It seems like a good plan.

 

I really don’t know what they are doing with the Veronica character. At times I think she’s smart enough to be playing both her parents and at others I don’t. 

 

I don’t know how I feel about Toni and it’s clear she was brought in to be a obstacle for Bughead.

 

Also.. look I like Veronica and Archie enough as a couple. I do. More than anyone else seems to on this board, I think they’re fine. (They aren’t my favorite that’s Betty and Jughead) But I’m super sick of seeing them get all hot and heavy every other episode and/or scene. It’s kind of overkill. 

 

And “expand the red circle more”? Huh?? Most of the teens in Riverdale at least Northside  are pretty much over being in the red circle because they want to live and be teens and play football and etc. so what did she mean by that? 

 

Archie’s getting more guns at an army store.. always a good idea.

 

My Bughead heart hurts with the way Betty wanted to work with Jughead and he already started working on it with Toni. But at least Betty let it go and suggested working on with everyone.

 

Okay.. how did Veronica get everyone to wear T-shirt’s? Even Cheryl? Cheryl isn’t a joiner.

 

Also Toni gets somewhat points for telling Betty to loosen her ponytail. But then loses them for becoming ready for bear to Betty. Also what is Toni’s problem? I’m sorry I know some people are going to like her but Betty wrote an article defending the serpents like a week or so ago? In the shows timeline. But yeah. She needs to back off a little as well.  But also mad at Jughead for not telling Betty the truth. 

 

And why was Kevin there? To be a buffer? I don’t see him being all too helpful with finding a killer.

 

Archie is so, so dumb. Going to Southside by himself to spray paint the red circle on a random building?  I mean yes he scared the serpents by bringing his gun out but still. Also.. considering the serpents are a gang, I would assume they would have their own guns as well. At least one of them should had one. There was a few there. 

 

“Maybe we should call my dad” love that Fred was pretty much like “yeah, do it. He’s making videos and I can’t deal”. 

 

Uh Hermione has room to talk about blind loyalty. She’s clearly in something with her cagey husband.

 

Also.. only Betty could solve the riddles? 

 

Seriously.. Veronica I like you but why is she acting like Archie having a gun and running around.. he’s been like this since his dad was shot. But at least she was trying to give him wisdom, but.. all the same, what did she think was going to happen?  

 

Also I love that all it takes for Reggie and the other football players to come back into the The red circle is not being ratted out, which okay, fine but weren’t they all mad about not being allowed to play football?  

 

Ugh. And I have to say it again, this show adding 400 new characters it seems is terrible when we hardly see people who are considered our mean characters. Like Cheryl didn’t speak at all this episode, we saw her, Josie is somewhere and Kevin got a big plot last  week and was pretty much shoehorned into scenes with Betty for her plot. 

 

A showdown in the rain between the north and the south! 

 

Alice wants to close Southside High? Uh then all those troubled teens would be going to Riverdale High, wouldn’t they?  Okay what the hell are the Lodges planning? Fred’s going to be a problem for what? Also.. yes Jughead and Betty run into the townhall and tell them the blackhood is coming there!

 

Hey! Veronica did something important and stopped the fight so Dilton can get checked out.

 

At least Betty finally told her mom about the letter but still.  And at least they got rid of the gun. But how Betty’s getting phone calls

 

Something felt off to me in this episode. I don’t know why but it feels like the show is now putting too many irons in the fire and getting lost in it. Next week looks good though.

[Last Time Lord]

Killer's going to be Betty's implied secret brother, isn't it?

I missed the first ten minutes, but man, this was one tense hour of television!

[WhosThatGirl]

1 minute ago, Last Time Lord said:

Killer's going to be Betty's implied secret brother, isn't it?

I missed the first ten minutes, but man, this was one tense hour of television!

I think so too. That’s what the show seems to be implying.

[Dee]

This episode was complete trash. Except for New Reggie who is still adorable.

[Advance35]

Sigh.  I wish they hadn't done the town psycho is obsessed with one of the gang angle.  I think that aspect made me roll my eyes the hardest.

Archie can be very sweet but if I were Veronica, I would have one use for that boy.  But I get the sense that beyond her parents aversion to him and beyond her view of him as a simple, boy next door easily manipulated (her description of him to her father), she honestly likes him.  I am unapologetically shallow so I fully admit, with his muscle tone, he'd be my studhorse morning, noon and night, but Veronica's feelings clearly go deeper.   Also LOVE the cape.

Also clever way to take some of the heat off Archie, by having the t-shirts become a statement.  Veronica is very good at getting what she wants from people.  This is an accomplishment considering just how self-centered she is.

Not a bad episode at all.

[SeanC]

Great episode, and after the (intentionally, I expect) silly ending to the previous one, this one made the whole rival gang element a lot more serious.

Four episodes into the new season, there has indeed been a considerable increase in the presence of minority characters/students in the show (particularly thanks to New Reggie and, of all people, Dilton, as well as new addition Toni), but I'm increasingly uncertain that the writers made any headway into figuring out how the Pussycats fit into the show, particularly now that the whole music angle seems to have largely fallen by the wayside.  I don't necessarily mourn the music stuff on its own, but when you introduce the characters, you've kind of committed to doing something with them.

3 minutes ago, Advance35 said:

Also LOVE the cape.

In a just world, Riverdale would bring capes back into fashion solely on the basis of how good Veronica's looks.

Archie and Veronica need to work on their listening skills if they're going to get their mack on like that in his house, seeing as they both completely missed that Fred had returned and was walking up the stairs.  I did like how their relationship was characterized here, and Hermione's advice about loyalty versus blind loyalty was actually pretty solid, and seemingly meant sincerely (as opposed to Hiram's facetiousness).

The brawl in the rain was really gorgeous on a cinematography level.  This show frequently features some of the most striking visuals on TV, which is not something I'd ever have expected.

Edited November 2, 2017 by SeanC

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. Something about this episode felt off as I said earlier. I’ll be alone in my boat though. I liked this episode. I just worry we have so Many new characters and that’s a little too much going on and we barley know what’s goin in with the ones we have already.

[AdorkableSars]

This episode.........was insane. Sooo much happened. 

Toni...girl, you were hostile to poor Betty and her iconic ponytail tonight. AND you didn't let sweet Kevin walk you home (although you maybe walked him home). However, as a fellow true crime junkie, I feel you girl. When all this black hood shit is over, let's have a Forensic Files marathon. Actually no. You only get two episodes I'll do a true marathon with Betty and Jughead. (Sidenote: how cute were they asleep on the couch?) And then we'll listen to My Favorite Murder.

Archie...boy. You are insane. I know you want to avenge Fred's shooting, and save the town from this craziness, but dang, you dumb. Glad he threw the gun into the river at the end, but I don't think his crusade to kill the Black Hood Killer is over. New Reggie is definitely growing on me. I liked that he and Kevin brought some levity to an otherwise intense and dark episode. 

I really just need to know what the hell Hiram (and Hermoine, though maybe not entirely willingly) are up to. What is their endgame here? Thei villainy is somewhat cartoonish and over the top (I half expected Hiram to be petting a fluffy cat when Veronica walked into the study), but it's entertaining, and I can't wait to see where this is headed. I loved Fred being the voice of reason at that town hall meeting. 

I missed Cheryl this episode. I also kind of miss the Cover Girl product placement. It used to bring me great joy, lauding the subtlety of it all...

5 minutes ago, WhosThatGirl said:

I don’t know. Something about this episode felt off as I said earlier. I’ll be alone in my boat though. I liked this episode. I just worry we have so Many new characters and that’s a little too much going on and we barley know what’s goin in with the ones we have already.

This is true. But we're still in early part of the season (only four episodes in), so I think they're still kind of setting up storylines and making sure all of these characters make an appearance. I think as the season goes on, there will be more focus on the main characters/storlylines.

[SeanC]

At first I wasn't quite sure why Alice thought closing Southside High was going to solve anything, given that the students would have to go somewhere else in town, but then I realized that her next proposal was probably that they should all be indentured to work in the salt mines.

[bettername2come]

I have to say I loved all the serial killer references in this one. And then Betty with her Nancy Drew code book! I've never related to her more (but seriously, a children's cypher should be easier to crack). I kind of dug the Socs vs. Greasers of the brawl between the Bulldogs and the Serpents. I did like Archie protesting that Veronica was walking around with an actual target on her chest. 

What does Alice think is going to happen if they close Southside High with all its drugs? They'll have to send the kids to surrounding schools, most likely Riverdale. She's not exactly thinking ahead.

[jay741982]

23 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

Killer's going to be Betty's implied secret brother, isn't it?

I missed the first ten minutes, but man, this was one tense hour of television!

The dialogue the killer says in the next episode preview screamed Obessed with Betty in a romantic sense." I don't want to share you.with anyone"?!!!. Also after hearing Lili and Camilla say that episode 5 delved more into the B and V friendship I'm thinking it's Veronica she's talking about pleading " please don't hurt her!"

[tennisgurl]

So this is both an adaptation of Archie comics AND The Outsiders? Who knew? 

Archie was straight up losing it for awhile there! "You sent out a video of you and a bunch of half naked idiots that sounded like a uni bomber manifesto" when you saw it like that, this sounds a tiny bit crazy, Archie. I do think he has gotten a grip, but this North/South side thing isnt close to over, and the Black Hood guy is still out there gunning for the gang, and I think if the Black Hood escalates, Archie might as well. 

I really like New Reggie, and he and Kevin added some nice lightness to an otherwise dark episode. "So...I`m gonna go..." Also glad they using the supporting cast more, with more scenes with Reggie, Dalton, and the parents, but I hope they find a use for Josie and the Pussycats soon. Or maybe give them a spin off where they go to space and bring rock and roll to the galaxy? 

19 minutes ago, SeanC said:

This show frequently features some of the most striking visuals on TV, which is not something I'd ever have expected.

It really does have very striking imagery. The fight in the rain was very intense, even though I knew no one was going to be killed or anything. The lighting was wonderful. 

[Last Time Lord]

Just now, jay741982 said:

The dialogue the killer says in the next episode preview screamed Obessed with Betty in a romantic sense." I don't want to share you.with anyone"?!!!. Also after hearing Lili and Camilla say that episode 5 delved more into the B and V friendship I'm thinking it's Veronica she's talking about pleading " please don't hurt her!"

I haven't been following any behind the scenes information, as I try to be spoiler free for this show, but my first thought with the "Please don't hurt her" was Polly.

[jay741982]

3 minutes ago, Last Time Lord said:

I haven't been following any behind the scenes information, as I try to be spoiler free for this show, but my first thought with the "Please don't hurt her" was Polly.

Polly was one of my first thoughts TBH. Sorry I spoiled you or anyone else man 

[TwistedandBored]

I don't know why but I am not relating to the Lodges and Archie. I also don't care about Toni. As soon as I found out this has something to do with Betty, I just started following her and stopped caring what the rest are doing. Also, I am sorry but whatever little chemistry Archie and Veronica had together seemed to have disappeared this season. 

 

In other news, It is kind of sad that we are on episode 4 of the season and we have seen little of Josie and The Pussycats. So much for season 2 being more inclusive. 

[Last Time Lord]

7 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

Polly was one of my first thoughts TBH. Sorry I spoiled you or anyone else man 

Nothing was spoiled. No worries.

[tennisgurl]

I liked Toni well enough last week, but this week so was seriously nasty to Betty when Betty was really trying to be nice, and that really turned me off. Looks like she will probably be an obstacle to Bughead, but I hope they end up doing more with her. 

Come on Alice. If you get rich of Southside High, where will the kids go? Do you want them to all go to Riverdale with Betty? If anything, someone should be allocate funds to clean the place up. Its basically Lord of the Flies with leather in there. 

[Jeddah]

I continue to love Kevin: "Betty's ponytail is iconic and beyond reproach."

I wanted to see Alice's response to Betty staying out all night.  I imagine it was like the anger she showed at the Town Hall meeting, but times a million.

It was ridiculous for Betty to think she should keep the letter a secret and handle it on her own. I expect that sort of stupidity from Archie, not Betty.

The rumble did seem like it was straight out of The Outsiders. S.E. Hinton has been an extra over on Supernatural. Can they get her to be on Riverdale too? She really needs to be the Matriarch of the Serpents or something. How great would that be?

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah I don’t like Toni. Girl has seemed ready for bear on betty since she was introduced to her and learned she was Jugheads girlfriend.  And I know people were like Betty was side eyeing her, but the first things Toni did when learning who she was to Jughead was make a backhanded comment about how Betty wasn’t what she was expecting.

[methodwriter85]

Betty apparently has an obsessed stalker with a fixation on proving his/her worth to her. You've officially reached leading lady status on a soapy drama, Betty!

I loved that people were seriously side-eying the video, and it's basically cancelled the football season. (Which...I thought it was supposed to be like January or February. Football season should be long gone. Whatever.)

The attacks on Toni are going to be absolutely BRUTAL on social media. I hope the actress has a thick skin.

Dylan McKay remains the voice of reason on the show. I love that he's continued his old sage act now that he's actually in old age.

Edited November 2, 2017 by methodwriter85

[WhosThatGirl]

2 minutes ago, methodwriter85 said:

Betty apparently has an obsessed stalker with a fixation on proving his/her worth to her. You've officially reached leading lady status on a soapy drama, Betty!

I loved that people were seriously side-eying the video, and it's basically cancelled the football season. (Which...I thought it was supposed to be like January or February. Football season should be long gone. Whatever.)

The attacks on Toni are going to be absolutely BRUTAL on social media. I hope the actress has a thick skin.

Dylan McKay remains the voice of reason on the show. I love that he's considered his old sage act now that he's actually in old age.

The attack’s on the actress have already been pretty bad and even if I don’t like the character of Toni, the things people have said online already before this season even aired have been awful. I’m still hoping the show does a bait and switch with her and she isn’t interested in jughead romantically, because that would be cliche. I fully expect her to a obstacle for Bughead but a part of me hopes that maybe she’ll like Betty or something. That would be different.

[methodwriter85]

Just now, WhosThatGirl said:

The attack’s on the actress have already been pretty bad and even if I don’t like the character of Toni, the things people have said online already before this season even aired have been awful. I’m still hoping the show does a bait and switch with her and she isn’t interested in jughead romantically, because that would be cliche. I fully expect her to a obstacle for Bughead but a part of me hopes that maybe she’ll like Betty or something. That would be different.

I'm totally with Toni being a lesbian. Maybe they could hook her up with Barb aka Ethel.

[WhosThatGirl]

Just now, methodwriter85 said:

I'm totally with Toni being a lesbian. Maybe they could hook her up with Barb aka Ethel.

I believe the character is bisexual right? I don’t read comics but I swear I read that. A part of me kind of hopes she and Cheryl get together. I don’t know why, it Just intrigues me. Also.. look I don’t like Toni but I get that it’s a tv show. The hate has been really bad for The actress even LR posted a post about it on her tumblr. And had to address it in interviews. People need to chill. It’s times like this when I feel like the tweeting and instagram is a bad idea. 

[methodwriter85]

People need to chill. It was obnoxious to watch how shipping (specially Ezra/Aria) basically dominated Pretty Little Liars, and killed any chance of actually interesting pairings to happen on the show because the ships were basically set in season 1 and they weren't allowed to deviate from that, at least for good. Hell, one character's wife was killed off because they couldn't just have him permanently not available for his high school girlfriend.

Had Dawson's Creek run in the age of Social Media, I'm convinced the Dawson/Joey shippers would have gotten their way even though the Pacey/Joey pairing just worked better on so many levels.

Edited November 2, 2017 by methodwriter85

[Snookums]

Quote

Still not sold on The Lodge Family, I don’t really find them interesting to watch when it’s just them in a scene.

I'd find them more interesting if I knew what the hell they found so interesting about Riverdale. They moved to New York! Granted, that city's probably not going to welcome Hiram The Thief back with open arms any time soon, but since he's out and their money troubles are apparently over why the hell are they still hanging out here? Does Hiram even have any ties to this bizarro town or is it only Hermione? Why was he so stuck on buying the old drive in or whatever the hell that plot was last season? Mystery is great but you've got to drop an actual clue now and again, show.

Toni reaaalllly overplayed her hand at the Cypher Gather. I find it hard to believe someone who's apparently smart and up on human behavior would think that kind of third-grade tactic would work--at least she knew to bail and walk Kevin home (hee.) I cannot figure out what she's after--Jughead is very cute and maybe she wants out of the Serpents and sees him as a ladder? 

And also, I know I'm old and past it and all, but you youngsters out there being stupid enough to threaten the actress for doing her damn job? It's a TV show. It is also not your personal property and the people working on it not your toys. Go outside. Read a book. Put your phone down for thirty seconds.

When Betty figured out the cypher and she and Jug ran to City Hall I blurted out "Oh my GOD they're going full The Following!" Luckily that did not happen because I really don't think I could take another one of those epic disasters, but it was a close one. I'm guessing the Hood heard Alice in full auto-rave about CLOSING DOWN AN ENTIRE HIGH SCHOOL, which I'm pretty sure you can't just decide to do at a Town Hall, and thought "I'm redundant here."

Much like Fred! Did that bullet shoot out his entire personality? Because last year he was an actual parent, who seemed to grasp at least the basics of not letting your sixteen year old kid race around trying to save the town all by himself. I get that he's still recovering and all but dude! Your minor kid has his minor girlfriend up in his room and you don't, I dunno, knock? Ask if her parents know where the hell she is, what with a crazy killer running around? Decide that you're sending his idiot butt to Chicago to his mom until said crazy killer THAT YOUR SON HAS BEEN TAUNTING ON YOUTUBE is caught? Something? Fred's usually the sanest one on the show (as shown at the meeting where he, the gunshot victim, was trying to calm everyone the hell down) but now it seems he's joined the rest of the adults in either being a week behind in doing anything about stuff like underage vigilantes or just ignoring it altogether.

Speaking of! Archie really tied with Jim Gordon over on Gotham for Biggest Dummy Of The Week Award this time around. If he didn't have an actual caped crusader for a girlfriend he'd be in the hospital by now at least. Ironically, some of the best acting moments came out of his dumbest decisions; running around spray painting in the South Side at night, alone? Cripes, what a dumbass. But when the Serpents tried to mess with him and he pulled out the gun you could feel that shot of corrupting power surging through him, how much he wanted to force a situation where he could pull the trigger. Later, after the Artfully Rainy Rumble, when he tells V that he's so glad he didn't have the gun because he didn't know what he would have done, I believed him. 

[Inquiry]

I don't know, I thought the town's reaction to Archie's video was completely over the top. If Archie lived in any other town the video either would have only gotten a handful of views or been mocked mercilessly. If they wanted us to truly believe the town's reaction, they really shouldn't have shown the actual video. Given they did though, all I kept thinking was "in the past year this town has had two murders, several attempted murders (one during broad daylight), had a huge drug ring exposed, etc. yet THIS compels an emergency town hall meeting? Really?"

I'm really enjoying Archie/Veronica and Bughead, but I think the writers have telegraphed (pretty subtly, I think) the issues that will eventually cause them to split. I think both couples will be broken up by the end of season 2, at the latest. I'd be happy to be wrong though. Part of me thinks the Archie PTSD storyline and Dark!Betty storyline might somehow converge. So the show will go there with Betty/Archie, but not in a way viewers are expecting. Honestly, I think that iteration would be the most satisfying (at least to me).

Anyone else think there's something up with the librarian? Betty said she used to check the Nancy Drew book out all the time when she was a kid. Obviously, she's not the killer, but the killer might be her son or something.

Quote

(as shown at the meeting where he, the gunshot victim, was trying to calm everyone the hell down) 

This made me laugh way more than it should. I still think Fred's the best parent on the show, but that's not a very high bar. He definitely seems more complacent, but I think that's for plot-related purposes. I did love the scene with Archie/Fred after they found the hood in Archie's locker. Both actors nailed that scene. Fred was close to tears when he said Archie was scaring him MORE THAN THE MAN WHO JUST SHOT HIM and Archie's realization (and subsequent guilt) was written all over Archie's face. 

Also, little things like Archie being terrified when Veronica went to open the door after Reggie knocked goes a long way toward showing how truly messed up Archie is at the moment. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Inquiry

[wingster55]

The absence/minimal use of Josie is really grating. I get they want to show more of the town but it's annoying. Cut back on everyone else.

Except Reggie. He's too entrenched in Archie lore. 

[tennisgurl]

Some interesting context on the name of the episode. Its a references to the movie The Town That Dreaded Sundown, which was based around the Texarkana Moonlight Murders, which Jughead references when he mentioned the Phantom Killer, the unknown serial killer who murdered several people in Texarkana in the 40s. The killer murdered around 5 people, shooting most of them at night, while they were on the road or parking in the nearby woods. The town was understandably jittery, and the cops were almost as worried about heavily armed, nervous Texans accidentally shooting people out of panic than about the serial killer. Also, apparently local teens got involved in trying to hunt the killer, with teens launching "sting operations" where they parked in cars while armed, waiting to see if the killer would come, chasing around suspicious people, and publicly calling out the killer for fights. 

The killings lasted for only a few months, and they never caught the killer. 

[AnimeMania]

The Black Hood said he shot Archie's father because he was an adulterer, who did he commit adultery with? If it was a long time ago, that might be significant.

[WhosThatGirl]

As I said this episode was.. okay. It feels like there’s a lot going on though and I’m a little worried about that, but anytime Bughead doesn’t break up by episodes end counts as a win and yes I’m a Bughead shipper through and through and like I said I’m not a fan of the Toni character, I feel like the hate she gets is super extreme but I have to say right now sadly, the show seems to be writing her as acual cliche to break you bughead, which is what everyone expected? So I’m hoping that changes. I have faith in the writers that they don’t plan on doing what we expect.

Which is really why I’m hoping there will be no Betty and Archie ever. It may be wishful thinking but I hope the show never goes there. I don’t need Beronica and Archie and betty and Jughead to stay together, I’m not an idiot they’re teens, but I feel like it would be nice to not see that cliche either.

[Bugs Meany]

5 hours ago, Snookums said:

And also, I know I'm old and past it and all, but you youngsters out there being stupid enough to threaten the actress for doing her damn job? It's a TV show. It is also not your personal property and the people working on it not your toys. Go outside. Read a book. Put your phone down for thirty seconds.

Same thing happened to the actress who played Tasha on Insecure, which has an older audience. There are a lot of unstable people out there :/

3 hours ago, AnimeMania said:

The Black Hood said he shot Archie's father because he was an adulterer, who did he commit adultery with? If it was a long time ago, that might be significant.

Hermione.

[sacrebleu]

Quote

 Your minor kid has his minor girlfriend up in his room and you don't, I dunno, knock?

heh-- cosign, you see a girl practically sitting in the lap of your half-naked son and you say to yourself, Imma go downstairs and check my email. Bang up parenting, McKay.

I can't figure out what the Lodges long-game is-- are they sewing division so they can take over the town, for what purpose? Or in the ensuring chaos-- are they going to buy up some Southside land rich in something other than maple syrup? maybe it's because I recently read Killers of the Flower Moon (seriously, y'all, it's amazing) but a power hungry asshole killing people off to get oil rights doesn't sound terribly far-fetched.

I refuse to believe they're gonna break up Bughead-- 

[WhosThatGirl]

6 minutes ago, sacrebleu said:

heh-- cosign, you see a girl practically sitting in the lap of your half-naked son and you say to yourself, Imma go downstairs and check my email. Bang up parenting, McKay.

I can't figure out what the Lodges long-game is-- are they sewing division so they can take over the town, for what purpose? Or in the ensuring chaos-- are they going to buy up some Southside land rich in something other than maple syrup? maybe it's because I recently read Killers of the Flower Moon (seriously, y'all, it's amazing) but a power hungry asshole killing people off to get oil rights doesn't sound terribly far-fetched.

I refuse to believe they're gonna break up Bughead-- 

Co-signing on Bughead, I need them together. 

Yeah.. The Lodges are incredibly confusing and maybe that’s why I feel so distant from their story. Whatever it might be. It just feels like their story might have nothing to do with the killer in a Black Hoodie. I also don’t know what’s going on with Hermione. I don’t know if she’s just evil and out for her own gain, against both her daughter and her husband or if she’s playing the dutiful wife because she has a game plan to screw over Hiram for both her and Veronica’s sake or if she is really in on whatever the hell they have going on. Their scenes are very confusing. It makes me not care and anytime the family has a scene together, I would rather be watching the teens try to hack murder codes or whatever.

Im curious about the black hoodie, I want to think that the writers are trying to tell us it’s bettys Brother but yeah the preview for next week makes it sound like the black hoodie is doing this in an attempt for her romantically. Also if they planned on introducing Betty’s brother this season.. would they do it like this? And then I have to think logicastics.. apparently whoever is stalking Betty is doing it because they heard her Julibee speech? So that sort of tells me it’s somewhere on the Northside. The Julibee doesn’t seem like a thing any of the Southsiders would attend. 

[truthaboutluv]

9 hours ago, methodwriter85 said:

I'm convinced the Dawson/Joey shippers would have gotten their way even though the Pacey/Joey pairing just worked better on so many levels.

That may be but the fan wars of that triangle still killed the show in my opinion. Of course I am of the unpopular opinion who hated Joey and hated how Andie and the Pacey/Andie pairing was shit on to facilitate Joey/Pacey. But I digress. It's fine for relationships not to be set in stone and writers to play around with other pairings but it's also lazy and cliche to go the triangle route. It never ends well unless the show's writers have amazing skills and I haven't gotten that impression from this show. The whole thing will be a clunky mess that will likely result in every one of the characters being hated by the end. Plus it's only the second season.

Do we already need the cliche, girl from the other side of the tracks who gets Jughead on a Serpent/Southside level possibly coming between him and Betty? His possibly stupidly joining a gang wasn't enough to put conflict in the relationship? Again, it's just lazy and predictable writing. Like we all know eventually they are going to revisit Betty/Archie and bring the Betty/Archie/Veronica triangle to life again (guess with Jughead it will be a square), they didn't need to already rush another potential obstacle. Sure, they can pull a curveball and have her really be into Betty or Cheryl but not exactly holding my breath. 

Also, while there is no excuse for harassing any of the actors online, I can understand why some Betty/Jughead shippers are frustrated. While Archie and Veronica get to have their multiple PG-13, bordering on R-rated makeout/sex scenes, Betty and Jughead, who when the last season ended where slamming each other against walls, have gone back to chaste kisses here and there before always inevitably being interrupted. And now there's a possible relationship interloper. Of course their fans are annoyed. 

Meanwhile, I continue to just not connect with this season. I don't know, the whole murder/serial killer/drama thing they're trying to pull just isn't working for me. Granted last season, I never cared much about who killed Jason so there is that. I like mystery shows but I just don't think that's what Riverdale is and in fact I think that is the problem, I still don't think the writers truly know what they want Riverdale to be. I get wanting the show to be darker than the original Archie comics that were light and apple pie but they can do a mature drama without all this ridiculous murder stuff. Maybe this is an unpopular opinion but yeah, it's been four episodes and this season is still just not working for me. And incidentally I still haven't watched an entire episode in one sitting. The dialogue, the story, etc. just seem way more clunky this season. Granted, last season had its myriad of issues and was all over the place and kind of a mess but it had a certain charm about it all while it was kind of a mess. I feel like it's the charm that's missing for me this season so all that's left is the clunkiness and messy writing/storytelling/etc.

Edited November 2, 2017 by truthaboutluv

[Lady Calypso]

Man, Toni was very hostile toward Betty. I don't like that they're implying a love triangle here. I mean, I was neutral on Toni's first appearance, but this one just made me really dislike her. I love the actress, so she's making it somewhat tolerable, but I'm going to need to see Toni not continue to make passive aggressive remarks to Betty. I can't even say that Betty's wariness is unreasonable now, because it's not. Jughead makes a good point about only being gone two days, but I also don't feel like he's being that great toward Betty either. He's trying, but something's off.

I'm going to miss Dark Archie, that's for sure. I actually liked Dark Archie and I wanted a couple more episodes of him. I think him and Veronica still work well, and I like how she's standing up to her equally shady parents. They really have no room to talk, and now with Hiram lying to Veronica about his conversation with Archie, I don't blame her for starting to really defy them now. 

I don't know what the hell is up with Fred this season. I mean, I get he was shot, but besides the town hall meeting where his season 1 personality came back out, he's been dull and not a good parent toward his spiraling son. I did love his scene with Archie in the kitchen, though. Between that and Alice's fear confession to Betty at the beginning of the episode, it was nice to see some true parenting going on there. 

I'm loving New Reggie. He's pretty damn great.

I'm not so sure if I love The Black Hood doing it all for Betty, but they DID explain it better than I thought they would. I doubt The Black Hood chose Fred, Miss Grundy, and Moose/Midge to attack for no reason, which is why I had been convinced The Black Hood really was after Archie. But I guess we'll see when Black Hood is revealed. My first thought, once it was revealed about Betty, that it was her long lost brother. 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Lady Calypso

[WhosThatGirl]

Yeah.. I want to like Toni because as a Bughead shipper, I wanted to avoid hating her just because I know why she’s here in this show. But I also agree with the other poster, Veronica and Archie get to be all sexy, R rated scenes and Betty and Jughead don’t and are probably going to break up soon.  Or seem on the cusp of one. Everyone just seems so 180 this season from the season finale.

I wonder if the writers didn’t think Betty and Jughead would be as popular as they are, I’m pretty sure  a lot more like that pairing better than Veronica and Archie. But I’m now wondering if they want to make the focual couple of the show. Also.. I think that’s part of the reason I’m slowly losing interest in Veronica and Archie as a couple, they keep pushing them in their scenes and telling us how hot and sexy they are like if you need to constantly show/tell us this, I don’t think it’s working. Have we gotten an episode yet where they haven’t had been making out heavily or about to hook up? 

[Chick2Chic]

My main reaction to last night's ep was eye rolling and laughing. Like I get what the show is trying to do this seaosn but ... it's not working for me. 

I am liking Toni. More of her, please!

I guess re: Betty and Jughead. I am still mostly neutral on them though they work better for me than Veronica and Archie, who I continue to see as chemistry-free. I think the latter is more noticeably problematic for me because they're supposed the "sexy" pairing on the show and my attention wanders to other things whenever they're onscreen together. The writing for Archie is better this season... although that entire sequence of him spray painting red circles then confronting the Serpents with a gun just about had me in tears from laughing... but everything Varchie is a black hole of chemistry, IMO.

Alice's shitstirring amuses me in the way that Hiram's does. It's the right amount of smarmy calculation that's interesting without being over the top.

New Reggie remains my eye candy on this show.  I'm enjoying his dudebro fine-ness. 

[Enginerd]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Im curious about the black hoodie, I want to think that the writers are trying to tell us it’s bettys Brother but yeah the preview for next week makes it sound like the black hoodie is doing this in an attempt for her romantically.

Well, the Coopers are technically Blossoms...I'm not sure attempted incest would be off the table!

[Enginerd]

...although if Betty's brother's father is someone other than Hal, then he may or may not have toxic Blossom blood himself. I was thinking FP was the most likely, but there could be any number of candidates.

[Mr. Sparkle]

3 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

Im curious about the black hoodie, I want to think that the writers are trying to tell us it’s bettys Brother but yeah the preview for next week makes it sound like the black hoodie is doing this in an attempt for her romantically. 

Oooh, I forgot all about Betty's brother! I was thinking Betty's father is Black Hood. I didn't get a strong romantic vibe from the preview, but it could also be a weird brother-sister thing. 

[Enginerd]

I was also thinking Hal Cooper was Black Hood, based on physical build and the shape of the eyes and eyebrows. I thought Hiram's lawyer, Paul, was another possibility. Hal could be drumming up news to increase newspaper circulation. Maybe he didn't even want his shooting victims to die; it was just to cause drama. Grundy could have been killed by someone else.

[WhosThatGirl]

13 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

I was also thinking Hal Cooper was Black Hood, based on physical build and the shape of the eyes and eyebrows. I thought Hiram's lawyer, Paul, was another possibility. Hal could be drumming up news to increase newspaper circulation. Maybe he didn't even want his shooting victims to die; it was just to cause drama. Grundy could have been killed by someone else.

But in the letter sent you alice they had her glasses? Along with Fred’s wallet.

[Affogato]

Last ep I figured it was Chick because the coopers are the only ones I can see wearing contacts that color and ending up with bright green eyes  

I remember whining about the ymca being closed on Christmas and the person I was venting to looked at me and said ‘young men’s Christian association’.

Ok, they can be closed on Christmas. Sigh. 

My point being that the core of Archie Comics is love triangles. Betty and Veronica are trope namers . I think we’re stuck with revolving triangular affairs and probably should have expected it going in.

Toni is Jughead’s Veronica to Betty’s Betty.  Dark Betty is veronica’s  Veronica to archie’s Betty. 

And so it goes  

Edited November 2, 2017 by Affogato

[Snookums]

Quote

 

The Black Hood said he shot Archie's father because he was an adulterer, who did he commit adultery with? If it was a long time ago, that might be significant.

Hermione.

 

Technically, though, Hermione was the one committing adultery. Fred is long divorced, so unless the killer is a really hard-core Catholic I can't see why he was targeted for that. He was committing fornication, or at least pre-fornication (no actual fornicating went down) but not adultery.  And Fred was targeted specifically; it's not like the killer fired into Pop's when it was crowded and just happened to hit him or anything. This whole "sins" business sounds like a shoddy cover up.

 I don't know why more people aren't exasperatedly pointing out that Alice's continual rant against Southsiders is quite definitely a lady protesting waaaay too much. As FP pointed out last season she dated a damn Serpent back in high school! (And apparently got knocked up!) It clearly wasn't a secret, although I suppose she could have "gone to visit an aunt" and hidden the pregnancy that way. It was only twenty years ago and since Riverdale is like some Doom Magnet that draws everyone back to it, she's surrounded by people who knew her when-- why the hell haven't any of her peers, like the MAYOR or the SHERIFF pointed out that her high horse is actually a bag of bones that's she's beating to no good purpose? 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Snookums

[Enginerd]

1 hour ago, WhosThatGirl said:

But in the letter sent you alice they had her glasses? Along with Fred’s wallet.

Details, details...

Maybe Hal had been having an affair with Faux Grundy, or tried to, and got mad when she blew him off for high school boys. Maybe he wanted her to seduce Jason and keep him away from Polly. Maybe he has a secret second family in Greendale (he does seem to be absent a lot) and Grundy was getting it on with his Greendale son. So he legitimately wanted her dead.

[Enginerd]

8 minutes ago, Snookums said:

Technically, though, Hermione was the one committing adultery. Fred is long divorced, so unless the killer is a really hard-core Catholic I can't see why he was targeted for that. He was committing fornication, or at least pre-fornication (no actual fornicating went down) but not adultery.  And Fred was targeted specifically; it's not like the killer fired into Pop's when it was crowded and just happened to hit him or anything. This whole "sins" business sounds like a shoddy cover up.

 I don't know why more people aren't exasperatedly pointing out that Alice's continual rant against Southsiders is quite definitely a lady protesting waaaay too much. As FP pointed out last season she dated a damn Serpent back in high school! (And apparently got knocked up!) It clearly wasn't a secret, although I suppose she could have "gone to visit an aunt" and hidden the pregnancy that way. It was only twenty years ago and since Riverdale is like some Doom Magnet that draws everyone back to it, she's surrounded by people who knew her when-- why the hell haven't any of her peers, like the MAYOR or the SHERIFF pointed out that her high horse is actually a bag of bones that's she's beating to no good purpose? 

Fred is just barely divorced. They've been separated for years, but only signed the divorce papers very recently, and weren't yet divorced when he was smooching on Hermione. To most people, the definitive separation with no intention to reconcile might be enough to say there was no cheating on his part, but the sort of person who tries to kill people for being sinners is not normal.

Didn't Alice go to the nun lockup herself when she was pregnant and unwed? I think it's implied she kept it hidden and very few people know she had another baby. She's definitely a complete hypocrite and going overboard to deny her origins and judge others while never examining her own behavior. Reminds me of lots of people I know.

[WhosThatGirl]

37 minutes ago, Enginerd said:

Details, details...

Maybe Hal had been having an affair with Faux Grundy, or tried to, and got mad when she blew him off for high school boys. Maybe he wanted her to seduce Jason and keep him away from Polly. Maybe he has a secret second family in Greendale (he does seem to be absent a lot) and Grundy was getting it on with his Greendale son. So he legitimately wanted her dead.

Maybe. I don’t know. It could be Hal. I guess. I’m just not sold on that yet. I”m also not sold on it being her brother either, only because if they do plan on bringing him in, would this be the way? I would think they would want to do many arcs with his character should he even come into the fold and him being a serial killer only gives so much time and story but I digress.

[Enginerd]

I'm not sold on any one theory of the shooter's identity. I see a lot of possibilities. People who are definitely not the shooter: Archie, Fred, Pop, Kevin, rando Kevin was hooking up with in the woods, Moose, Midge. I'd also remove most of the other ladies from consideration unless they're really into elaborate disguise. The eyes looked like middle-aged man.

[PeekaBoo]

What an episode... Firstly, I just loved the fighting scene between the Southside and Northside, I mean, what beautiful filming, the light, the rain and the song! It was beautiful to watch while they were kicking the hell out of one another!!

Other than that, everyone's going darker and darker and they are so far from being done that god knows what more can happen!!! And I think the show has been telling us all along how its not just about the serial murderer going around but about the fear that's spreading through to everyone and it makes them take really stupid decision (aiming at you there Archie!!) ....

The whole Red Circle thing is sooo MEH to me and despite understanding Archie's revenge thing, but I'm happy that his whole shit caught up to him and that maybe after throwing the gun and all that he's "reformed" that he's seen the error of his ways but come on... What the hell was he thinking running around the SouthSide spraypainting on the walls where SweetPea "casually" was there with his crew... And why! Why the hell would they think the murderer was from the SouthSide? Ok, there's gangs, baddies and drugs crawling on every feet of that town (?), district? why the hell would someone start going after them like now?!?!?

I'm a bit annoyed at Veronica nowadays but I have to admire to sticking to Archie, defending him at all cost! Its very loyal I so get atht she might try to do anything to help archie since she's aware of what her dad did in all this! But going around with those white red circle tshirts?

The lodges just creep the hell out of me and i'm still nonethewiser as to what the hell are they up to and who's the evilest of the two? Is Hermione playing Hiram? What are their freaking goals? I'm still onto the whole Hiram will run for mayor plot but we'll see what happens! HE must be rubbing his hands and laughing maniacally at all the turmoil that's happening "Dance puppet Dance!"

Bughead is breaking my little bughead heart. Jughead I think is sorta beginning to feel helpless or way over his head with all the Serpents crap that's being thrown at him. He can't escape what's happening to him and when Toni came along in that scene and gently put her hand on his shoulder, I got the feeling that he sorta couldn't say no, out of fear of retaliation... The boy's scared and goddammit he's making poor decisions! Trying to been the "good" boyfriend by keeping Betty at bay for whatever noble reason... He's done this before and he's just continuing and like someone has already said, FP warned Archie about it... What makes it worse is seeing Betty going through this as well, she knows what she's up against when it comes to Toni, she didn't bother arguing about Jughead ignoring her call, she's trying hard to ignore the problems but she's struggling, she's cracking and i'm afraid she'll start to implode very soon, especially with the ending of the episode... It's sad to see. I just read somewhere that its speculating that BH might force Betty to break up with Jughead... Hopefully it's just a stupid rumour but it would make sense if he wants her for herself...

I was a bit surprised by Toni's reaction.I don't know why she was hostile towards Betty (unless its the whole North/Southside thing), but I wonder if she's the type that doesn't like bullshit or pretending or whatever and likes to be upfront, maybe she can see through them and couldn't stand it... I'm still undecided about her. I hope that she's one of the better Serpents. (And here I thought from the promo pictures that Toni and KEvin would become unexpected friends lol). I'm still not convinced that they decided to jump on Jughead to make him a serpent... And why would they want to make him a serpent if he doesn't want to? I'm pretty sure there's plenty other kids that have more potential than him?!Is it only bc of FP?

So far, I do not think that either Hal or Chic is the BH, it would be too expected and I have faith in TPTB that they have better ideas! I'm sorta feeling that the BH has some sort of ties with Mr.Blossoms "apparent suicide".

As for the rest of the parents, I think Fred at the town meeting was the voice of reason, they should have listened to him, he is afterall the only survivor thus far.... And Alice, omg, her teary speech to Betty?!?! WTF! Betty shouldn't fall for those crocodile tears while that woman is responsible for half the misunderstandings lol (sorry, unresolved mommy issues here lol ) and Hal should say something!!!

On a final note, getting a bit tired of Barchie! They can't have that much chemistry and shot scenes for the show to go towards Barchie, it would only present Archie iin a seriously bad light! I really hated that the whole Kevin thing got resolved quickly without a proper chat about it (huff, come on...)....

As for Reggie 2.0, I thinks he's sleezy and a jerk, but a smooth jerk. He's not tyring to make things worse but still... never like Reggie in the comics lol...