S02.E08: Arnold Hall

[formerlyfreedom]

Quote

Sam gets confronted.

[EdnasEdibles]

Seriously, what is wrong with Frankie? I didn't find any of that funny at all. It was like watching a Mother/Daughter "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" - quit torturing each other.

[chocolatine]

1 minute ago, EdnasEdibles said:

Seriously, what is wrong with Frankie? I didn't find any of that funny at all. It was like watching a Mother/Daughter "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf?" - quit torturing each other.

The whole time Frankie was running her mouth at the Bar Mitzvah I was picturing how my mother would have physically disciplined me if I'd been even 5% as rude as Frankie was being. Sam should have pointed out that it would be Frankie who'd have to work a menial job to provide for herself if Sam couldn't support her anymore.

Interesting scene with Sam's German ex-FIL. Explains a lot about why her ex is such a parasite.

[Liamsmom617]

What the ever-living fuck did I just watch?! 

[Irlandesa]

I was waiting for some kind of back story on why Frankie decided to run her mouth off there--like maybe there was some bet somewhere that she could make her mom lose her cool.  It was just so bizarre.  And then Sam retaliating by throwing food on her and pouring water on her dress instead of just sending her home?  So bizarre.

[DiabLOL]

Once again the show thinks something gross and pathetic is funny and cute and playful. Big fail.

[Liamsmom617]

  Was anyone else surprised to see Frankie wearing a dress (and a form-fitting one at that) to Push’s Bar Mitzvah? Sam wasn’t in a dress, but Frankie, who we’ve been told identifies as male, was. Interesting....

Edited November 3, 2017 by Liamsmom617

[EdnasEdibles]

37 minutes ago, Liamsmom617 said:

  Was anyone else surprised to see Frankie wearing a dress (and a form-fitting one at that) to Push’s Bar Mitzvah? Sam wasn’t in a dress, but Frankie, who we’ve been told identifieds as male, was. Interesting....

I just read about this in one of the recaps - I guess Pamela Adlon said that they're basing Frankie's development off of a real life person that she knew who had this strange sort of "I'm gay? I'm not gay? I'm really a boy? I'm not?" confusion in adolescence. I'm glad that was addressed in the recap because I had that same feeling. It was a VERY sexy mature dress for a middle schooler at a bar mitzvah and then she was kind of flirting with that one boy and I was a little confused. 

[Irlandesa]

8 hours ago, Liamsmom617 said:

  Was anyone else surprised to see Frankie wearing a dress (and a form-fitting one at that) to Push’s Bar Mitzvah? Sam wasn’t in a dress, but Frankie, who we’ve been told identifies as male, was. Interesting....

I don't believe Frankie has self-identified yet.  She does some "boy" things like using the boy's room and she definitely dresses more like a boy but only Max is the one who has come out and said Frankie was a boy. 

[QQQQ]

I think the actress who plays Frankie is channeling Ellen Page from Hard Candy.

[tomsmom]

They lost me at “Max the dog is eating your pussy blood again” Jesus Christ who the eff talks like that???!!!

[Kenz]

I enjoyed the first season of this show. It was quirky and funny. This season has left me grossed out and kind of disturbed.

[justmehere]

Sam was so calm during Frankie's recitation, it seemed like some kind of game Frankie plays, trying to get a rise out of her -- a bit "old hat" to Sam but not without some consequence. I admit, I laughed out loud when Sam tipped that dessert into Frankie's lap.

[scrb]

Well "Sam Fox" was talking a lot about penises in a room full of kids and yelling out about her daughter's pussy blood so maybe not so surprising that Frankie would taunt her about becoming a shit sorter with her bald spot.

[Jeanne222]

They are all solo disrespectful to each other!

It's like an accident.  I can't stop looking!

[Mumbles]

I liked Frankie fine in the first season but this season she has been a monster.  Forcing her mom to have dinner with the father, manipulating her to by her a phone, general rudeness, but tonight was just cruelty. And from the sound of her conversation with her classmate, she may be ditching school. Max is a major pain in the ass, but her drama is more self-absorbed and not as mean.

Quote

I just read about this in one of the recaps - I guess Pamela Adlon said that they're basing Frankie's development off of a real life person that she knew who had this strange sort of "I'm gay? I'm not gay? I'm really a boy? I'm not?" confusion in adolescence. I'm glad that was addressed in the recap because I had that same feeling. It was a VERY sexy mature dress for a middle schooler at a bar mitzvah and then she was kind of flirting with that one boy and I was a little confused. 

I was confused too but I appreciate this approach the show is taking, to let the kid sort it out.  

That father-in-law is a real piece of work with his fantasy of his three granddaughters giving him flowers after his son has abandoned them. All for show.

The kid is named Push and his sister is named Sorrow. Gawd, these names!

[Blakeston]

I remember back in the first season when Sam gave that speech at Frankie's school where she asked about who'd gotten their period. It was wildly inappropriate, but it was also kind of sweet. It didn't make me think of her as a terrible person.

This bar mitzvah speech, on the other hand, was just insane. Making jokes about the bar mitzvah boy having a small penis? Even if you know the kid, and you know that he has a raunchy, self-deprecating sense of humor, you don't put the other attendees through that horrible awkwardness. And I can't even imagine how much abuse that poor boy would take from the other kids at school after that. As if they didn't have enough ammunition as it is, with him being called "Push."

(Also, if you're going to go blue with a bar mitzvah speech, it should at least be funny. That wasn't even remotely funny.)

Sam gets all of the blame for Frankie's shitty behavior, as far as I'm concerned. She's just following Sam's lead. And Sam's never done a damn thing to curb Frankie's antics, so why wouldn't Frankie go all out?

It seems like the writers decided that this season, they should make Sam and her daughters as unappealing and unrelatable as possible. I just don't know why.

[pasdetrois]

Quote

I was picturing how my mother would have physically disciplined me if I'd been even 5% as rude as Frankie was being.

My mother was tiny but when she reached out to poke us for wiggling and giggling in church, we swore her arm grew two feet. There was also the Death Glare. No words were necessary.

I guess this show is trying for pitch-black humor. I don't like it and am disappointed (again). Plus, the incongruity of a young girl wearing Jean Harlow to a Bar Mitzvah.

There were some lovely moments - Sam's speech, reminding us that girls were once forbidden from this rite of passage, and letting everyone know how much they are loved.

[Ottis]

How much trash do they generate?  We’re a family of four and we don’t fill even one of those cans a week, much less what, 5? 6? Even if one was recycling, that’s astounding. 

As for the gamesmanship, I think Sam and Frankie have a long running thing going where they try to irk each other. None of that bothered me. It wasn’t what we do, but most of this show isn’t what we do. 

Frankie is very pretty. Her face is expressive.  I can say that, right? I hope I can. If not, I apologize for my behavior and I am sorry if I upset her. 

Edited November 4, 2017 by Ottis

[possibilities]

I was also shocked by the amount of trash they had. And those were BIG cans!

Did she joke about the kid having a small penis? I thought she was joking about his bris (circumcision ritual). A mohel, which I know she mentioned, is the person who circumcises a Jewish baby. Every infant has a small penis. I thought her joke about eating the fish at the bris-- hoping it was fish and not the foreskin-- was beyond gross, but her best friend was the mother of the bar mitzvah boy and she liked it, so I thought this was one time Sam was not being awful. She got a lot of laughter and she was upset when the one person complained after. I don't think she was setting up the kid for derision. At worst, he'd be the kid who had a dirty comedian at his bar mitzvah, and it would be remembered as being shocking, which kids that age enjoy.

Frankie's dress looked very expensive. I couldn't believe Sam would ruin it with the prank war, for that reason more than any other. I'm used to her engaging in what to me are horrible wars with her children, so I don't like that but I'm not shocked by it anymore.

I also thought she was very measured and reasonable with the horrible father of her ex. She tried to handle it in a way that was best for her daughters, without giving in to his BS. I probably would not have bothered to respond to his request to see them at all, honestly. It's clear he's not someone they know or would miss and he's probably going to use the girls to try to guilt trip Sam into taking in their deadbeat father.

Weirdly, I just don't like Sam anymore, even in moments when her behavior is OK.

Edited November 4, 2017 by possibilities

[ItCouldBeWorse]

23 hours ago, tomsmom said:

They lost me at “Max the dog is eating your pussy blood again” Jesus Christ who the eff talks like that???!!!

Why wouldn't the bathroom garbage have a cover, especially if you have foraging dogs?

[Jodithgrace]

I had to fast forward over that Bar Mitzvah speech, it made me so uncomfortable. And that cold open was gross. I can't imagine a mother talking like that to her kids, and the prank war at the Bar Mitzvah was also dreadful. Not a big fan of this episode, though I liked the scene with the Grandfather. 

[Blakeston]

14 hours ago, possibilities said:

I was also shocked by the amount of trash they had. And those were BIG cans!

Did she joke about the kid having a small penis? I thought she was joking about his bris (circumcision ritual). A mohel, which I know she mentioned, is the person who circumcises a Jewish baby. Every infant has a small penis.

She said that Push was a man now, except for his penis, which was probably still a boy's. And she said that the mohel cut it "in half."

If that had happened to a kid at my middle school, I can guarantee you that word would spread at lightning speed about how one of the speakers at his bar mitzvah made those cracks about his penis. He wouldn't live it down for years.

[planet17]

I don't think Frankie's inappropriate behavior is "coming out of nowhere". It has been shown this season that Frankie is deeply attached to her father and miss him. Frankie is the typical case of the kid that misses deeply an absent parent after a divorce, and target that anger and frustrations on the present parent (usually the mother). Frankie has been acting inappropriate and mean towards Sam since Xander came to town.

So far it has been interesting to watch and I want to see where it goes.

[metalchik]

On 11/2/2017 at 11:19 PM, Liamsmom617 said:

What the ever-living fuck did I just watch?! 

Right???  I'm not sure why I continue watching this show.  I really liked the first season but they seem to be going off the rails on this one.  I guess I keep watching to see if it gets better.

I liked Sam in the first season but she's really not that good of a person and her kids are entitled, whiny brats.

[Blissfool]

On Friday, November 03, 2017 at 8:51 PM, tomsmom said:

They lost me at “Max the dog is eating your pussy blood again” Jesus Christ who the eff talks like that???!!!

I just watched this episode on OnDemand and I did not hear this line. Might it have been edited out? I'll have to rewatch at a later date.

Sam definitely needs to be more strict with her girls. She just walked away  (and contemplated sleeping in the garage?) when Frankie locked her out of the house. 

[ItCouldBeWorse]

3 hours ago, Blissfool said:

I just watched this episode on OnDemand and I did not hear this line. Might it have been edited out? I'll have to rewatch at a later date.

Sam definitely needs to be more strict with her girls. She just walked away  (and contemplated sleeping in the garage?) when Frankie locked her out of the house. 

The line was at the beginning, before the opening credits.  Another toilet scene.

Edited November 13, 2017 by ItCouldBeWorse

[txhorns79]

Quote

It was a VERY sexy mature dress for a middle schooler at a bar mitzvah and then she was kind of flirting with that one boy and I was a little confused. 

I was wondering why Frankie looked like she was auditioning for a role on Dynasty, while her mother was dressed like a hobo clown.   

[Drumpf1737]

If Frankie were my daughter at eighteen I'd pack her shit, put it on the porch and change the locks. I keep hate-watching this show because I keep thinking there's something I'm missing. I'm not missing anything they're really just horrible people. I'll be honest I even hate the youngest kid since the Truth or Dare episode. 

And did Xander's father actually believe Sam should continue to pay support? What the entire fuck?

[heatherchandler]

On 11/2/2017 at 10:19 PM, Liamsmom617 said:

What the ever-living fuck did I just watch?! 

I guess I just don't "get" this show.  I liked season 1.  This season is just not good, there is no story, and it is annoying and boring IMO.

I see this episode was written by Adlon and LCK, and I know from interviews that Louie advises writers to just write, and then a story will appear...  but I think he may be wrong.  Just writing about whatever is not entertaining.  

[OldButHappy]

On November 16, 2017 at 9:48 PM, Drumpf1737 said:

I keep hate-watching this show because I keep thinking there's something I'm missing.

Me too.  But they never fail to alienate me more and more with each episode.