S08.E07: Jenelle vs Barb

[Spiderella2]

Jenelle and Barb’s most explosive fights. 

Is anyone else watching this episode tonight? I’m torn between frustration and aggravation. Barb has been patient with Jenelle, all things considered. But these fights are fiery! I could never speak to my mom the way Jenelle talks to hers. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by Spiderella2
Date aired

[guilfoyleatpp]

Just when you started to forget that Jenelle was always a piece of shit...

Her story never changes. It's men and partying unless barb is yelling at her and then she wants to spend time with her son. "her son."

[badhaggis]

God Jenelle is a piece of garbage. I truly despise her. 

[athousandclowns]

Breaks my heart that those kids don't stand a chance of being anything but screwed up and that she continues to reproduce  

janelle will  continue to have bottom feeding men in her life. Every time you scream in front of your kids it changes who they are will they ever witness love?  Loving them I just don't think can right the wrong. 

[GreatKazu]

I was watching the World Series. I jumped to watch this special during the commercials. There was one scene where Jenelle was yelling at Barb on the phone (what else is new?) and there was David uttering his nonsense. Then, Jenelle repeated his words to Barb. Even though I already know David is behind all of the drama that is happening, just hearing Jenelle repeat his words, was nauseating and proof that she is going through all of this (again) because of the stupid dick who is yelling in her ear. When Nathan was talking smack about Barb, there was Jenelle repeating his words. Now, it is David. Jenelle should just change her name to "parrot" because she is UBTs mouthpiece who repeats his words. He wants Barb to suffer and Jenelle is more than happy to accommodate him. She is not being "contained." She is a willing participant. 

Edited October 26, 2017 by GreatKazu

[ElderPrice]

They left out marrying Gary and her abortion, and screaming at Barb, who drove her to get the abortion, about how stressed she is and she needs a nap. But it is only an hour long show. 

[Isthisok]

I love that they aired this the week after she threatened to quit because of the "bad editing". At least we got some good old Kiefffffah!

[CofCinci]

I hope Nathan’s Mom set her VCR for this. I’d run that tape straight to the attorney come morning. 

[Pepper Mostly]

Her default is always "I just want to be with my son!" as she sobs into his hair. That child is nothing but a prop to her, and he always has been.

[CalicoskiesNC]

This show was disgusting tv on all fronts. Holding baby Jace and all that screaming, goodness. If I were Jenelle or Barb, who does not get a pass, I would leave reality tv immediately. I would break contract and never go back. Such humiliation and embarrassment in front of tv/social media audience. 

[CaughtOnTape]

This entire thing made me angry and sad.  Neither of them should have that little boy.  Wanna know how Jenelle learned to be a piece of shit that screams insults and yells in someone's face?  I give you exhibit A:  Barb.

Neither of them know how to express any other emotion but anger.  Barb is 100% to blame for the piece of shit Jenelle is and this show just proved it.  Although Jenelle is rapidly approaching the age where you can't blame your mother for why you're an asshole, it is absolutely evident that Barb is no paragon of virtue in this.  

[StatisticalOutlier]

What that hour showed me was that Jace has spent literally his entire life in the middle of fights between Jenelle and Barb, and they're equally at fault.  I was surprised at just how horrible their fights were back at the beginning, always with Jace around and sometimes while holding him! 

Their fights are less violent now, but they are still awful and happen because these two grown women don't care enough about Jace to make sure he doesn't witness their "drama."  Given their history, they shouldn't even attempt to have a conversation when he's around because it can turn with a quickness, but they persist.  Why?  Because apparently fighting with each other is more important than protecting Jace.  Good work, y'all.

I found it interesting that when David called the cops when Barb wouldn't leave Jenelle's house, David said something about the cops coming, and Barb said, "I didn't call the cops."  Um, okay.  If you're the reason the cops were called, and it's resolved by removing you from the premises, then you have some culpability.  And she approached the cop car with, "I wasn't screaming."  Well, yes you were.  In front of a bunch of kids, as usual. 

And Barb whining to Jace in the car Jenelle doesn't want to see her?  WTF?  Shut up, Barb, just shut up.  Leave that kid out of it, please!

It's admirable that Barb stepped up to take care of Jace, but she seems to think that was the end of her obligation to him, when it should have been just the beginning.  And if she wasn't up for that, she shouldn't have done it, because Jace is going to have one hell of a time digging himself out of the hole that these two caregivers have dug for him.  It's an unsolvable situation at this point, but it's like everybody's putting forth only the effort that serves their own ends, and not what's best for Jace.

Honestly--foster care is a terrible system, but it's not a 100% failure, and Jace was a white baby born without FAS or any obvious defects.  It's possible that a foster parent could have put him in karate classes and made costumes for him and at the same time not had him in the middle of terrible fights between people who purportedly love him, while in this family, that seems to be simply impossible. 

I hope both of them watched this episode.  Jenelle's probably too far gone, but I can dream that Barb will actually think, "This is awful.  I will never expose Jace to that again, no matter what it takes, even if it means I have to choose him over Jenelle."  Because hey, Barb--trying so hard to make Jenelle want to be involved with you not only looks pathetic, it's harming Jace.  It sucks, but that's how it is.  So stop it, and let grown Jenelle handle her own life while you do the right thing for the child Jace. 

[MargeGunderson]

4 hours ago, ElderPrice said:

They left out marrying Gary and her abortion, and screaming at Barb, who drove her to get the abortion, about how stressed she is and she needs a nap. But it is only an hour long show. 

Wait, she was married to Gary? I thought she married Courtland. I can't keep up with Jenelle and her men. 

[TexasGal]

Was there anything we haven't already seen included?  My dvr picked it up last night but I just don't know if I can watch it.  Ha - but of course if there is new dirt I will.  

My 2 cents on Barb - she is certainly not perfect.  I agree that Jenelle learned a lot of her behaviors (yelling, wallowing in self pity) from her.  But, I do think that she has gotten better.  It seems like she has tried to stop the negativity although she doesn't always succeed.  And she started that change at a later point in her life when it is harder to change your ways.  Jenelle has not gotten any better, in fact she seems to keep getting worse by adding to her toolkit all the shitty behavior she has picked up from the successive POS men in her life.

[Booger666]

They both are way too argumentative.  But, like TexasGal, I agree that Barb has gotten better over the years while Janelle has gotten worse.  Plus, Barb had the stresses of having a job, raising 3 children on her own (one of whom has a very serious mental illness), and raising a grandchild at a senior age.  Janelle’s biggest stress is not getting high before 10a.  Not that this is an excuse for Barb to lose control like she does, but I can understand how the stresses for her would be overwhelming at times.  Janelle has no excuse.  In fact, Janelle has a mother who has helped her when she has been at her biggest lows.  For all of Barb’s faults she has tried to do the right things while Janelle keeps striving for new lows.

[Booted]

1 hour ago, CalicoskiesNC said:

This show was disgusting tv on all fronts. Holding baby Jace and all that screaming, goodness. If I were Jenelle or Barb, who does not get a pass, I would leave reality tv immediately. I would break contract and never go back. Such humiliation and embarrassment in front of tv/social media audience. 

Yes leave tv and or get some serious help of some kind. I would like to know if Barb has ever thought about counseling for herself with a psychiatrists? If so what has she been diagnosed with ? Does it require medication? We all know that Jenelle has been diagnosed with being depressed and bipolar (and probably more that I dont remember) along with her addictions- we know that her brother has severe mental health problems and does not live at home but in a care home. Her sister IMO displays with many symptoms of several mental health conditions - and just does not come across (watched her many videos years ago on youtube) as a person that is strung together tight and more like she is in the middle of a melt down at that very moment . 

My point is that mental health problems are many times genetic- so whos side has the problems Barb or the father?  I think it is very safe with all of Barbs children having so many problems to assume that it has to do with their genes and if it comes from Barbs side I have to wonder if she has ever addressed this? 

I understand that Jenelle does not get much if any sympathy for her actions and that she has never appreciated her mother or shown that she care about her at all BUT watching Barbs behavior on this show reminds me that Barb is a mess of a mother and she too made many many mistakes in dealing with her daughter who was only in her teens and obviously was in need of help - its easy to judge Jenelle it seems but not Barb which I find interesting.

[Brooklynista]

I hate how Janelle's abusive and now absentee father manages to escape so much of the blame for Janelle's behavior. It can't fall 100% on Barb.

[StatisticalOutlier]

1 hour ago, TexasGal said:

My 2 cents on Barb - she is certainly not perfect.  I agree that Jenelle learned a lot of her behaviors (yelling, wallowing in self pity) from her.  But, I do think that she has gotten better.  It seems like she has tried to stop the negativity although she doesn't always succeed.  And she started that change at a later point in her life when it is harder to change your ways.  Jenelle has not gotten any better, in fact she seems to keep getting worse by adding to her toolkit all the shitty behavior she has picked up from the successive POS men in her life.

I think Jenelle has gotten better.  At the birthday party, I think it was, she walked away instead of fighting with Barb.  And was declared cold and unfeeling.  I don't give a shit how it came off to either her or Barb if it meant Jace escaped witnessing another fight. 

In fact, that big scene at Jenelle's where she was in the bedroom and wouldn't see Barb.  Good for her!  But Barb wouldn't accept that and it turned into a fight and the cops came.

I'm glad Barb wasn't invited to the wedding.  Jenelle no doubt did it to spite Barb, but if it meant they couldn't have a fight in front of Jace, then I'm all for it.  And maybe it will help finally get it through Barb's thick skull that Jenelle doesn't want to have anything to do with her, and she can take her at her world and leave her alone.  For once, I'm down with "Think of the children!"

 

Quote

Was there anything we haven't already seen included?  My dvr picked it up last night but I just don't know if I can watch it.  Ha - but of course if there is new dirt I will.  

There wasn't anything we hadn't already seen, but putting it all together like that made it more horrific, and served as a reminder of how these two were behaving in previous years.  Really, really awful and inexcusable.  That scene where Barb threw Jenelle and all her stuff out of the house was really something.  Jace was there, of course, but was handed over to Mike so the drama could continue--I guess he was getting in the way.

 

23 minutes ago, Brooklynista said:

I hate how Janelle's abusive and now absentee father manages to escape so much of the blame for Janelle's behavior. It can't fall 100% on Barb.

I'm not sure being absent is necessarily a terrible thing in this case if he's as unable to control himself around Jenelle as Barb is.

[lovesnark]

16 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I think Jenelle has gotten better.  At the birthday party, I think it was, she walked away instead of fighting with Barb.  And was declared cold and unfeeling.  I don't give a shit how it came off to either her or Barb if it meant Jace escaped witnessing another fight. 

In fact, that big scene at Jenelle's where she was in the bedroom and wouldn't see Barb.  Good for her!  But Barb wouldn't accept that and it turned into a fight and the cops came.

I'm glad Barb wasn't invited to the wedding.  Jenelle no doubt did it to spite Barb, but if it meant they couldn't have a fight in front of Jace, then I'm all for it.  And maybe it will help finally get it through Barb's thick skull that Jenelle doesn't want to have anything to do with her, and she can take her at her world and leave her alone.  For once, I'm down with "Think of the children!"

 

There wasn't anything we hadn't already seen, but putting it all together like that made it more horrific, and served as a reminder of how these two were behaving in previous years.  Really, really awful and inexcusable.  That scene where Barb threw Jenelle and all her stuff out of the house was really something.  Jace was there, of course, but was handed over to Mike so the drama could continue--I guess he was getting in the way.

 

I'm not sure being absent is necessarily a terrible thing in this case if he's as unable to control himself around Jenelle as Barb is.

Barb pulled up to the house and found Jace and Maryssa playing next to the street unsupervised. She asked them where Jenelle was and they said she was locked in her bedroom. Barb knocked on the door and no one answered, so she went inside and when she said the kids were out in the street alone, UBT went on the defense. She asked to see Jenelle and he refused and told her to get out of his house. Yes. She could have not gotten into a screaming match with UBT. But, she was worried about Jenelle because she knew her latest soulmate was an abusive, violent creep. Her hackles were also up at him telling her to get out of HIS house and stop bothering HIS kids. He was a fairly new soulmate at that time and it wasn't his house and two of the three kids there weren't his kids.

If you've never had a child become addicted to drugs and shit on you at every turn, it's not easy to understand getting to the point of throwing them and all of their stuff out. But, you reach a point where you can't live that way anymore and you do it to save yourself. Our son was never as hateful as Jenelle, but after doing everything possible to offer help and being routinely lied to and stolen from, your get to a place where you can't do it anymore and make them leave in order to keep from going insane.

I agree that Barb yells way too much and needs to walk away from it when it starts. It's horrible that Jace has had to witness that on the regular during his life. I believe Barb is seeing a therapist, too.

[GreatKazu]

8 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

I hate how Janelle's abusive and now absentee father manages to escape so much of the blame for Janelle's behavior. It can't fall 100% on Barb.

Right. He gets the ultimate pass. It's like that Fast Pass at Disneyland - go pass your kids, your obligations, and pass the blame on to your victims. 

Barb was the one who walked away at the birthday party.  Jenelle continued to scream. 

Jenelle hiding in her house, refusing to see Barb. I guess Jenelle gets a pass for ignoring the children being left alone outside unsupervised.  Barb was concerned not only about the children playing out near a street, but her daughter who she likely felt was high or injured from a DV assault. Children saying their caretaker is locked in her room is a red flag. Barb has instincts due to her years as a victim of DV. 

Jenelle evidently watched her abusive father far too many times being an abusive prick. No doubt, watching how her mother reacted during many of those DV altercations had to have been a factor with how Jenelle responds to others. Add in her Bipolar diagnosis and her drug use, her refusal to seek proper help, and bringing in more children into her twisted world, she is just a big mess.

Edited October 27, 2017 by GreatKazu

[lovesnark]

23 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Right. He gets the ultimate pass.

Barb was the one who walked away t the birthday party. Jenelle continued to scream.

Jenelle hiding in her house, refusing to see Barb. I guess Jenelle gets a pass for ignoring the children being left alone outside, including Kaiser, unsupervised.  Barb was concerned not only about them , but her daughter who she likely felt was high or injured from a DV assault. Children saying their caretaker is locked in her room is a red flag. Barb has instincts due to her years as a victim of DV. 

Jenelle evidently watched her abusive father far too many times being an abusive prick. No doubt, watching how her mother reacted during many of those DV altercations had to have been a factor with how Jenelle responds to others. Add in her Bipolar diagnosis and her drug use, her refusal to seek proper help, and bringing in more children into her twisted world, she is just a big mess.

But, but, but!! Remember, she isn't bipolar!!! Even though that was the diagnosis after her stint at the Malibu spa rehab. I remember Barb mentioning her being bi polar last season and she went off and was shrieking about not being bi polar, that she had anxiety disorder and told Barb she'd call her doctor to prove it. I guess that doctor changed her mind about Jenelle's crippling anxiety since she stopped writing xanax prescriptions for her. That's when she started seeing molecules and went on her interstate doctor shopping trips.

[GreatKazu]

19 minutes ago, lovesnark said:

But, but, but!! Remember, she isn't bipolar!!! Even though that was the diagnosis after her stint at the Malibu spa rehab. I remember Barb mentioning her being bi polar last season and she went off and was shrieking about not being bi polar, that she had anxiety disorder and told Barb she'd call her doctor to prove it. I guess that doctor changed her mind about Jenelle's crippling anxiety since she stopped writing xanax prescriptions for her. That's when she started seeing molecules and went on her interstate doctor shopping trips.

You are so right. I should be grabbed by my arm, the way UBT grabbed Kaiser, and dragged away for not remembering how Jenelle was suffering and seeing molecules. Shame on me for not having pity for Jenelle. UBT needs to contain me. 

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

7 hours ago, ElderPrice said:

They left out marrying Gary and her abortion, and screaming at Barb, who drove her to get the abortion, about how stressed she is and she needs a nap. But it is only an hour long show. 

Pretty sure Barb also PAID for that abortion, too. 

2 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

I hate how Janelle's abusive and now absentee father manages to escape so much of the blame for Janelle's behavior. It can't fall 100% on Barb.

110% THIS. Barb isn't perfect, but she was THERE...and she was/is there for Jace when Jenelle couldn't be assed to do the basics of parenting for him. She's also still there for Jenelle...worrying David is abusing her, worrying about Kaiser & Ensley, etc....and I'm 99% sure she'd take Jenelle and all her kids in if Jenelle's MTV $ ran out, even after everything Jenelle has said and done.

Edited October 26, 2017 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[CaughtOnTape]

3 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

What that hour showed me was that Jace has spent literally his entire life in the middle of fights between Jenelle and Barb, and they're equally at fault.  I was surprised at just how horrible their fights were back at the beginning, always with Jace around and sometimes while holding him! 

Their fights are less violent now, but they are still awful and happen because these two grown women don't care enough about Jace to make sure he doesn't witness their "drama."  Given their history, they shouldn't even attempt to have a conversation when he's around because it can turn with a quickness, but they persist.  Why?  Because apparently fighting with each other is more important than protecting Jace.  Good work, y'all.

I found it interesting that when David called the cops when Barb wouldn't leave Jenelle's house, David said something about the cops coming, and Barb said, "I didn't call the cops."  Um, okay.  If you're the reason the cops were called, and it's resolved by removing you from the premises, then you have some culpability.  And she approached the cop car with, "I wasn't screaming."  Well, yes you were.  In front of a bunch of kids, as usual. 

And Barb whining to Jace in the car Jenelle doesn't want to see her?  WTF?  Shut up, Barb, just shut up.  Leave that kid out of it, please!

It's admirable that Barb stepped up to take care of Jace, but she seems to think that was the end of her obligation to him, when it should have been just the beginning.  And if she wasn't up for that, she shouldn't have done it, because Jace is going to have one hell of a time digging himself out of the hole that these two caregivers have dug for him.  It's an unsolvable situation at this point, but it's like everybody's putting forth only the effort that serves their own ends, and not what's best for Jace.

Honestly--foster care is a terrible system, but it's not a 100% failure, and Jace was a white baby born without FAS or any obvious defects.  It's possible that a foster parent could have put him in karate classes and made costumes for him and at the same time not had him in the middle of terrible fights between people who purportedly love him, while in this family, that seems to be simply impossible. 

I hope both of them watched this episode.  Jenelle's probably too far gone, but I can dream that Barb will actually think, "This is awful.  I will never expose Jace to that again, no matter what it takes, even if it means I have to choose him over Jenelle."  Because hey, Barb--trying so hard to make Jenelle want to be involved with you not only looks pathetic, it's harming Jace.  It sucks, but that's how it is.  So stop it, and let grown Jenelle handle her own life while you do the right thing for the child Jace. 

All of this.  Both of them are ridiculous and I'm over both of them.  I'm not about to give a pass for it because Barb took on the responsibility of raising Jace.  She is a terrible parent.  I see everyone in here constantly going off about all the yelling and carrying on David does in front of Kaiser, Ensley and Marissa so why does Barb have her actions explained as if I should understand why she's gone off the deep end?  I don't care about Jenelle's absentee father, that was on Barb to figure out how to handle it and instead of getting her daughter into some therapy when she realized Jenelle was losing her mind she just decided to yell and scream every chance she got.  So yeah...100% on Barb.

You can literally see Jace shut down when one of them starts yelling.  His face is nothing but sadness.  He's rapidly approaching the age where that sadness is going to turn into anger and the silence will be replaced by some "fuck you"'s of his own.  And Barb will be right back where she was with Jenelle with Jace because she has no idea how to parent.  I'm shocked she's got him in therapy and my guess is that happened not because of her own concern but because either someone on the show or at his school suggested it or it was offered to her.  Barb has absolutely no ability to be introspective or to see how her own behavior factors into Jenelle's just as Jenelle has no idea how her behavior factors into Barb's.  And neither of them will take responsibility for their own culpability in why it is Jace is showing signs of anger management issues.  Why would he know how to manage anger?  None of the adults in his life have the skill apparently.  

 

1 hour ago, lovesnark said:

Barb pulled up to the house and found Jace and Maryssa playing next to the street unsupervised. She asked them where Jenelle was and they said she was locked in her bedroom. Barb knocked on the door and no one answered, so she went inside and when she said the kids were out in the street alone, UBT went on the defense. She asked to see Jenelle and he refused and told her to get out of his house. Yes. She could have not gotten into a screaming match with UBT. But, she was worried about Jenelle because she knew her latest soulmate was an abusive, violent creep. Her hackles were also up at him telling her to get out of HIS house and stop bothering HIS kids. He was a fairly new soulmate at that time and it wasn't his house and two of the three kids there weren't his kids.

So?  Barb was asked to leave.  If she had a concern about the kids being outside unsupervised then she should've called CPS or the cops and let them handle it.  Instead she started a screaming match with three children in the room.  If Barb wants an explanation for why her daughter hates her, I could sit down and give her specific points without hesitation.  It would take me three hours but we'd eventually get through it.

My dislike of Barb is not absolving Jenelle for being the complete fuckwad she is.  I don't believe I have to like either of them and I don't.  

As far as I'm concerned Barb is slightly higher on my respect scale because while she is fucking abrasive as shit, her refusal to allow Jenelle to have him back isn't because she's trying to stick it to Jenelle.  Whereas I believe Jenelle only wants Jace back so she can stick it to her mother about what a better mother she is to him.  Where Jace's safety is concerned, Barb is in the right by keeping him away from the household and I hope she continues the crusade in that area.  

But otherwise?  She's as useless as Jenelle is.  I would have walked away from both of them long ago and I suspect when Jace is old enough he will peace out ASAP too.

Edited October 26, 2017 by CaughtOnTape

[Emkat]

Does anybody know what Keiffer is up to these days?

[Lusterleaf]

2 minutes ago, Emkat said:

Does anybody know what Keiffer is up to these days?

He's probably thanking his lucky stars that he escaped the wrath of Jenelle.

[Emkat]

I wonder if he watched this episode.

[StatisticalOutlier]

2 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Barb was the one who walked away at the birthday party.  Jenelle continued to scream. 

That's not how I remember it.  And Barb was the one who brought up having a family getaway fresh on the heels of the court battle.

 

Quote

Jenelle hiding in her house, refusing to see Barb. I guess Jenelle gets a pass for ignoring the children being left alone outside, including Kaiser, unsupervised.  

Jace and Maryssa are old enough to play unsupervised.  When David came out of the bedroom, he was carrying Kaiser, and even if Kaiser was outside, Maryssa is old enough to be looking after him at home.  If Barb was afraid something terrible was going on inside, she should have stayed outside with the kids and called the police because what was she going to do?  Beat up David?  Instead, she went inside, and brought the kids in with her.  She escalated that situation, confronted someone she thought was so dangerous that something had to be done that instant, and was responsible for the kids witnessing it.

 

Quote

If you've never had a child become addicted to drugs and shit on you at every turn, it's not easy to understand getting to the point of throwing them and all of their stuff out. But, you reach a point where you can't live that way anymore and you do it to save yourself. Our son was never as hateful as Jenelle, but after doing everything possible to offer help and being routinely lied to and stolen from, your get to a place where you can't do it anymore and make them leave in order to keep from going insane.

I agree, and actually wish Barb had done it much earlier, and no matter when she did it, hadn't let her back in, as usual.  My only beef is that she did it in front of Jace, as usual.

[SPLAIN]

I was very happy to see Barb walk away from Jenelle at that birthday party. After she asked about going away for a vacation, Jenelle began hurling her usual insults and such. Barb then said never mind and walked away by going through a door to get away from the venom that was being hurled her way. While that was happening, Barb even told Jenelle, "Alright, Jenelle" as a way to get her daughter to stop. Jenelle was just ranting in her loud voice instead of taking the hint. It was just Jenelle's way of performing for the camera to show what a big boss bitch she thinks she is and to prove to David, once again, that she is hating on her mother the way he expects her to. Any time she has had a decent conversation with her mother, David has always been quick to interject his way into the conversation. There was that one scene in a car where Jenelle and Barb were conversing in a quiet and adult manner. David wasn't having it. He wanted Jenelle to turn it up 100 notches. I am convinced David has made it clear to Jenelle that she better stick with the script or else.

2 hours ago, MyPeopleAreNordic said:

Pretty sure Barb also PAID for that abortion, too. 

110% THIS. Barb isn't perfect, but she was THERE...and she was/is there for Jace when Jenelle couldn't be assed to do the basics of parenting for him. She's also still there for Jenelle...worrying David is abusing her, worrying about Kaiser & Ensley, etc....and I'm 99% sure she'd take Jenelle and all her kids in if Jenelle's MTV $ ran out, even after everything Jenelle has said and done.

Barb did pay for that abortion.

ITA to your entire post.

4 hours ago, Booger666 said:

They both are way too argumentative.  But, like TexasGal, I agree that Barb has gotten better over the years while Janelle has gotten worse.  Plus, Barb had the stresses of having a job, raising 3 children on her own (one of whom has a very serious mental illness), and raising a grandchild at a senior age.  Janelle’s biggest stress is not getting high before 10a.  Not that this is an excuse for Barb to lose control like she does, but I can understand how the stresses for her would be overwhelming at times.  Janelle has no excuse.  In fact, Janelle has a mother who has helped her when she has been at her biggest lows.  For all of Barb’s faults she has tried to do the right things while Janelle keeps striving for new lows.

Yes, there is at least growth on Barb's part. It may not be where we'd want her to be, but nonetheless, it is growth and there is awareness. After years of doing things, bad habits can be very hard to break even for those with the best of intentions. Having dealt with people who had mental issues and addictions, I can say it was very hard to not respond to their behavior. It took a few years to drop old habits with new habits. Barb has also had to deal with two other adult children who have mental and drug issues.  It can't be easy and it sure as hell isn't easy when you are the only parent in their lives. I don't care for all that Jace has witnessed over the years from both sides. It is so cringe-worthy to watch all over again. Still, I can at least see Barb is doing her best to ensure Jace gets all the help he needs. Many people are not into mental health care or seeing any sort of mental health specialist. If it were left to Jenelle, her son would not be seeing any specialists and he would not be on his much-needed medication.

[mrsh]

2 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

That's not how I remember it.  And Barb was the one who brought up having a family getaway fresh on the heels of the court battle.

 

Jace and Maryssa are old enough to play unsupervised.  When David came out of the bedroom, he was carrying Kaiser, and even if Kaiser was outside, Maryssa is old enough to be looking after him at home.  If Barb was afraid something terrible was going on inside, she should have stayed outside with the kids and called the police because what was she going to do?  Beat up David?  Instead, she went inside, and brought the kids in with her.  She escalated that situation, confronted someone she thought was so dangerous that something had to be done that instant, and was responsible for the kids witnessing it.

 

I agree, and actually wish Barb had done it much earlier, and no matter when she did it, hadn't let her back in, as usual.  My only beef is that she did it in front of Jace, as usual.

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. Jace and Maryssa are 8 or 9, and not old enough to play in the front yard, which is where they were, unsupervised. Much less, watching Kaiser out in front of the house. If they had been in a gated backyard, then it wouldn't be an issue. They were sent out front, because Jenelle and Lurch are too lazy to go out with them to supervise them and wanted them out of the way.They are kids and should not be left to fend for themselves while their loser parents sit in their room getting high or being on their phones. Barb is Jace's mom in all they ways that count, and she left him with Jenelle, hoping that she could trust J to watch him, and maybe spend time with the kid, since you know, she constantly cries about how all she wants is her son back. So when she saw the kids were just sent out front where they could have been kidnapped or ran over she was rightly pissed.

[lovesnark]

1 hour ago, mrsh said:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. Jace and Maryssa are 8 or 9, and not old enough to play in the front yard, which is where they were, unsupervised. Much less, watching Kaiser out in front of the house. If they had been in a gated backyard, then it wouldn't be an issue. They were sent out front, because Jenelle and Lurch are too lazy to go out with them to supervise them and wanted them out of the way.They are kids and should not be left to fend for themselves while their loser parents sit in their room getting high or being on their phones. Barb is Jace's mom in all they ways that count, and she left him with Jenelle, hoping that she could trust J to watch him, and maybe spend time with the kid, since you know, she constantly cries about how all she wants is her son back. So when she saw the kids were just sent out front where they could have been kidnapped or ran over she was rightly pissed.

This happened shortly after Jenelle moved UBT in so it was late 2015 or early 2016. The kids were younger. While I don't think I would have done as much yelling to the point of the asshole calling the cops, I know I wouldn't have taken kindly to my daughter's latest random hook up refusing to let me talk to her and telling me to get out of her house. I think what Barb was really worried about was the UBT had beat the shit out of Jenelle and the reason she refused to come out of the bedroom is because she had a black eye or bruises. I probably would have grabbed Jace, driven down the road a little way, then called the cops to ask them to do a welfare check because I was worried about my daughter's safety. 

[GreatKazu]

Lovesnark I just watched the scene. Luckily, I have the episode on DVR. Barb drives up. Jace and Maryssa are outside playing on the edge of the road. At this point in time, Jace is 6 years old. Barb goes inside and calls out for Jenelle. She calls out Jenelle's name many times. She says, "Jenelle, I am here. Jenelle" which sounds like Jenelle was expecting Barb to show up.  She then says, "Jenelle or David, can you please open the door." She continues to call out Jenelle's name several times.  She then says, "Jenelle. What is going on? You have all the kids outside." Maryssa and Jace along with Gabriel are shown standing next to Barb. Barb then asks Jace, "What is your mother doing?" Maryssa responds, "They [Jenelle & David] are asleep" to which Jace responds, "I bet she is." Very interesting that Jace says this as if alluding this is pretty much the norm.  Barb then asks, "Why are they always sleeping?" That question suggests this has happened far too many times. Jenelle then yells from inside the room, "I want everyone to leave me alone!" Barb then says to David through the door a comment about keeping Jenelle in prison. Barb then says she is not leaving Jace there.

It is not a good idea to be sleeping with the door locked while children ae left unattended outside. That is, if they were indeed sleeping. They may have been getting high, sleeping off from being high, or something worse happened. Considering just a few episodes back we watched Jenelle and David stalk, videotape, and harass Barb for supposedly being inebriated (she wasn't) while she has children with her, it is very hypocritical of those two to try and make a claim of Barb not being coherent when they themselves are constantly asleep instead of tending to the children they have in their care. Sorry, when you have young children in your care and custody you can't just lock yourself in a room and demand to be left alone. Those two ignored Barb as she called out Jenelle's name at least 15 times before finally responding. What would have happened had one of those kids had a medical emergency or some other emergency had happened? Their cries to Jenelle would have been ignored as well. Maryssa has been the caretaker of Jace and Kaiser from day one. She is put in a position to be responsible for the welfare of these kids while the adults lock themselves away. There was information that was posted recently about Jenelle and David keeping the kids outside on The Land while they were locked inside the house. 

There is no defense or excuse for ignoring children and leaving them unattended outside, especially if their stance is to continuously point out that Barb is an alcoholic and she can't take care of Jace. 

Barb would be held accountable if she had uttered, "I want to be left alone!" while leaving Jace and Gabriel unattended while they were outside. 

I also checked the birthday scene. Barb did in fact take the stance that she wasn't going to argue and she walked away. Jenelle continued to harp and take jabs by raising her voice and telling off Barb. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by GreatKazu

[guilfoyleatpp]

14 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Lovesnark I just watched the scene. Luckily, I have the episode on DVR. Barb drives up. Jace and Maryssa are outside playing on the edge of the road. At this point in time, Jace is 6 years old. Barb goes inside and calls out for Jenelle. She calls out Jenelle's name many times. She says, "Jenelle, I am here. Jenelle" which sounds like Jenelle was expecting Barb to show up.  She then says, "Jenelle or David, can you please open the door." She continues to call out Jenelle's name several times.  She then says, "Jenelle. What is going on?" "You have all the kids outside." Maryssa and Jace along with Gabriel are shown standing next to Barb. Barb then asks Jace, "What is your mother doing?" Maryssa responds, "They [Jenelle & David] are asleep" to which Jace responds, "I bet she is." Very interesting that Jace says this as if alluding this is pretty much the norm.  Barb then asks, "Why are they always sleeping?" That question suggests this has happened far too many times. Jenelle then yells from inside the room, "I want everyone to leave me alone!" Barb then says to David through the door a comment about keeping Jenelle in prison. Barb then says she is not leaving Jace there.

It is not a good idea to be sleeping with the door locked while children ae left unattended outside. That is, if they were indeed sleeping. They may have been getting high, sleeping off from being high, or something worse happened. Considering just a few episodes back we watched Jenelle and David stalk, videotape, and harass Barb for supposedly being inebriated (she wasn't) while she has children with her, it is very hypocritical of those two to try and make a claim of Barb not being coherent when they themselves are constantly asleep instead of tending to the children they have in their care. Sorry, when you have young children in your care and custody you can't just lock yourself in a room and demand to be left alone. Those two ignored Barb as she called out Jenelle's name at least 15 times before finally responding. What would have happened had one of those kids had a medical emergency or some other emergency had happened? Their cries to Jenelle would have been ignored as well. Maryssa has been the caretaker of Jace and Kaiser from day one. She is put in a position to be responsible for the welfare of these kids while the adults lock themselves away. There was information that was posted recently about Jenelle and David keeping the kids outside on The Land while they were locked inside the house. 

There is no defense or excuse for ignoring children and leaving them unattended outside, especially if their stance is to continuously point out that Barb is an alcoholic and she can't take care of Jace. 

I also checked the birthday scene. Barb did in fact take the stance that she wasn't going to argue and she walked away. Jenelle continued to harp and take jabs by raising her voice and telling off Barb. 

I wonder if this is around the time that Jace got lost in the woods by himself.

[alexa]

Honestly when I see this all I see is Janelle as a druggie and a bully. I can’t hate on Barbara as it is clear she has no idea what to do with Janelle. But she did the big thing that mattered and took care of Jace. To this day I know he knows that Barbara has his back and he can count on her. It is also clear that Janelle and her boyfriend relationship patterns remain the same. Also I bet Nathan feels differently now when he sees his old scenes where he said Janelle should have Jace. Funny how things come around. 

[Mkay]

@GreatKazu You know, if I remember right, Barb or Jenelle said that they (Jenelle and Barbara) had plans to go out to eat. Barbara shows up and Jenelle is locked in the bathroom.  No wonder Barbara decides to go check on Jenelle.  If there were plans and Jenelle isn’t coming out, I’d be demanding to see my daughter, too. Great job keeping that episode. 

[neenyah]

I have to disagree on some points presented in this thread.

1) It was acceptable for young children to play outside by the road in an apartment complex.

I absolutely think it is not ok for a 6 and 8 year old to be totally unsupervised in a public area alongside the road. Not only are there physical hazards (playing by the road!) but in this sort of publicly trafficked area, who knows what could happen to them or what sort of predator could happen upon them? Not only was this not likely their first time outside alone, but they could easily be grabbed and driven off the main road with no one the wiser for quite a long time. By then they could be out of state, raped, sold into sex trafficking, or even murdered. 

Yeah, it's not ok to have little children to play outside unsupervised along the road in the public eye.  Wrong. Do we even believe this is the first time? No way. It's not even like they are on The Land playing in their own secluded space. Anyone can see and grab them.

2) Barb is 100% to blame for Jenelle's behavior. 

Since when is one parent the only one responsible for a child? And since when is a 25 year old adult and willing parent of MULTIPLE children not responsible for their own behavior. Yeah, Barb may be histrionic and a yeller and everything else, but she is not responsible for the impact that the absentee, abusive father had on their children, nor is she responsible for genetic predispositions of which she was not aware (or that possibly didn't come from her). She is also not responsible for the willing choices that Jenelle made to leave her child, steal from Barb, become a heroin addict, or deal with, become pregnant by, and marry various abusive men.

Two parents were involved with creating Jenelle, and she is now a grown woman responsible for herself. To blame Barb only is IMO, very short sighted, revisionist, and absolving jenelle of blame in all her fucked up ways. 

 

I will say in my uneducated yet personally experienced opinion, Jenelle suffers with Borderline Personality Disorder, which while really fucked up, doesn't absolve you from being a piece of shit asshole.

[nikita]

12 hours ago, TexasGal said:

Was there anything we haven't already seen included?  My dvr picked it up last night but I just don't know if I can watch it.  Ha - but of course if there is new dirt I will.  

My 2 cents on Barb - she is certainly not perfect.  I agree that Jenelle learned a lot of her behaviors (yelling, wallowing in self pity) from her.  But, I do think that she has gotten better.  It seems like she has tried to stop the negativity although she doesn't always succeed.  And she started that change at a later point in her life when it is harder to change your ways.  Jenelle has not gotten any better, in fact she seems to keep getting worse by adding to her toolkit all the shitty behavior she has picked up from the successive POS men in her life.

Barb kept her cool and walked away at the birthday party. I've noticed Barb trying not to engage anymore in yelling fights with the Daughter from Hades. She also expressed her hurt feelings about the wedding and then disengaged and prevented escalation at the dropoff with Jenelle's "fans" in the background.

11 hours ago, Brooklynista said:

I hate how Janelle's abusive and now absentee father manages to escape so much of the blame for Janelle's behavior. It can't fall 100% on Barb.

***^^^^^THISthisTHISthisTHIS^^^^^***

Edited October 27, 2017 by nikita

[lovesnark]

2 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Lovesnark I just watched the scene. Luckily, I have the episode on DVR. Barb drives up. Jace and Maryssa are outside playing on the edge of the road. At this point in time, Jace is 6 years old. Barb goes inside and calls out for Jenelle. She calls out Jenelle's name many times. She says, "Jenelle, I am here. Jenelle" which sounds like Jenelle was expecting Barb to show up.  She then says, "Jenelle or David, can you please open the door." She continues to call out Jenelle's name several times.  She then says, "Jenelle. What is going on? You have all the kids outside." Maryssa and Jace along with Gabriel are shown standing next to Barb. Barb then asks Jace, "What is your mother doing?" Maryssa responds, "They [Jenelle & David] are asleep" to which Jace responds, "I bet she is." Very interesting that Jace says this as if alluding this is pretty much the norm.  Barb then asks, "Why are they always sleeping?" That question suggests this has happened far too many times. Jenelle then yells from inside the room, "I want everyone to leave me alone!" Barb then says to David through the door a comment about keeping Jenelle in prison. Barb then says she is not leaving Jace there.

It is not a good idea to be sleeping with the door locked while children ae left unattended outside. That is, if they were indeed sleeping. They may have been getting high, sleeping off from being high, or something worse happened. Considering just a few episodes back we watched Jenelle and David stalk, videotape, and harass Barb for supposedly being inebriated (she wasn't) while she has children with her, it is very hypocritical of those two to try and make a claim of Barb not being coherent when they themselves are constantly asleep instead of tending to the children they have in their care. Sorry, when you have young children in your care and custody you can't just lock yourself in a room and demand to be left alone. Those two ignored Barb as she called out Jenelle's name at least 15 times before finally responding. What would have happened had one of those kids had a medical emergency or some other emergency had happened? Their cries to Jenelle would have been ignored as well. Maryssa has been the caretaker of Jace and Kaiser from day one. She is put in a position to be responsible for the welfare of these kids while the adults lock themselves away. There was information that was posted recently about Jenelle and David keeping the kids outside on The Land while they were locked inside the house. 

There is no defense or excuse for ignoring children and leaving them unattended outside, especially if their stance is to continuously point out that Barb is an alcoholic and she can't take care of Jace. 

Barb would be held accountable if she had uttered, "I want to be left alone!" while leaving Jace and Gabriel unattended while they were outside. 

I also checked the birthday scene. Barb did in fact take the stance that she wasn't going to argue and she walked away. Jenelle continued to harp and take jabs by raising her voice and telling off Barb. 

Thank you! Anyone could have taken those children while those fuckwits were locked in the bedroom. I haven't watched this season, so I didn't see the birthday scene. I did see clips on Twitter.

 

2 hours ago, guilfoyleatpp said:

I wonder if this is around the time that Jace got lost in the woods by himself.

This is before they moved to the swamp. It was at the house Jenelle was renting when she moved UBT in and before she was pregnant with Endtable. 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

I absolutely think it is not ok for a 6 and 8 year old to be totally unsupervised in a public area alongside the road. Not only are there physical hazards (playing by the road!) but in this sort of publicly trafficked area, who knows what could happen to them or what sort of predator could happen upon them? Not only was this not likely their first time outside alone, but they could easily be grabbed and driven off the main road with no one the wiser for quite a long time. By then they could be out of state, raped, sold into sex trafficking, or even murdered. 

Exactly.

They were playing at the edge of the road where the traffic drives through to access the homes there. This was actually a home Jenelle rented, not an apartment complex, just to clarify. 

Also, we recently read a tweet from Chelsea (posted on her thread) mentioning how she had fans of the show appear at her property and even her door. Jenelle has her own "fans". In this day and age where people's addresses could easily be found online, imagine one of her crazy followers (predator, perpetrator, molester, rapist) knowing where she lives and seeking the opportunity to drive by, notices unattended children, and snatching one of them.  Jenelle put the MTV cameras to watch the kids while she and David "slept". I suppose in that instance the kids were safe from predators, but MTV is not always there. 

[lovesnark]

17 minutes ago, GreatKazu said:

Exactly.

They were playing at the edge of the road where the traffic drives through to access the homes there. This was actually a home Jenelle rented, not an apartment complex, just to clarify. 

Also, we recently read a tweet from Chelsea (posted on her thread) mentioning how she had fans of the show appear at her property and even her door. Jenelle has her own "fans". In this day and age where people's addresses could easily be found online, imagine one of her crazy followers (predator, perpetrator, molester, rapist) knowing where she lives and seeking the opportunity to drive by, notices unattended children, and snatching one of them.  Jenelle put the MTV cameras to watch the kids while she and David "slept". I suppose in that instance the kids were safe from predators, but MTV is not always there. 

They have no trespassing signs posted all over their driveway and an intact male pit bull wandering around with the kids for the weeks when the MTV crew isn't there to make sure the kids aren't taken or getting lost in the woods. Parenting, Eason style. UBT is such a possessive creeper, it wouldn't surprise me at all to find out he booby traps THE LAND.

[SPLAIN]

Seeing that Barb is one who is pro-mental health, and knowing she assisted her two other children (one successfully) with their mental health issues, it would only make sense that she was the same way with Jenelle when she was young. I can only imagine it must have been a trying time for Barb as she tried to get Jenelle help with her mental disorders. It is not easy to get loved ones treated for mental health problems when they don't believe or feel they have problems. Over 8 seasons now we have watched a very defiant Jenelle. She does not listen to her mother even when it is for her own good.

I find it highly unfair and unreasonable to hold Barb accountable for how her child turned out, especially since that child to this day, has refused to seek the proper health and treatment for her mental disorders. What could Barb have possibly done for a defiant teenager in need of mental health? Barb cannot force medication down a defiant teenager's throat. Barb cannot force a defiant and violent teenager to attend therapy. Even if by some miracle Jenelle listened to Barb and attended therapy, who is to say she was going to follow the advice of the professional? Not even courts can force people into treatment even though they order such court-ordered treatments every  day of the week. Anyone who has worked for the courts or the mental health system can point out that people will not succeed if they truly don't want the help. We all know that one has to want to seek help. Jenelle has never truly wanted help. Her mentality is there are external forces working against her, not that her terrible life choices are the cause for her problems. I see patients at my job struggling to get their kids to follow their medical professional's advice and to take their medication. Many parents try their damnedest to get their kids to heed the medical advice of the mental health professional, but to no avail. I see some kids who take their mental health serious, but plenty do not.

Yes, Jenelle. You had a shitty life growing up. So did millions of other people. Blame your mother. Blame her again and again. Blame her until you feel better about it. After that, tell her you love her, just as she has continued to love you and forgiven you for all the hurt you yourself have done to her.  The complicated reality is, Barb loves Jenelle and has always wanted what was best for her. She did the best she could under the conditions they all lived in.  But that was then and this is now. Jenelle needs to stop holding Barb responsible for what is happening in her life. She is an adult and continuing to hold her mother accountable is not only childish, but it’s also counterproductive; it doesn’t change Jenelle's life in a healthy direction.

[StatisticalOutlier]

5 hours ago, mrsh said:

I'm gonna have to disagree with you on this. Jace and Maryssa are 8 or 9, and not old enough to play in the front yard, which is where they were, unsupervised. Much less, watching Kaiser out in front of the house.

Someone claimed that Kaiser was outside, but subsequent reports on the incident say it was just Jace and Maryssa. 

 

6 hours ago, mrsh said:

They are kids and should not be left to fend for themselves while their loser parents sit in their room getting high or being on their phones. Barb is Jace's mom in all they ways that count, and she left him with Jenelle, hoping that she could trust J to watch him, and maybe spend time with the kid, since you know, she constantly cries about how all she wants is her son back. So when she saw the kids were just sent out front where they could have been kidnapped or ran over she was rightly pissed.

Having kids playing out in the yard is being "left to fend for themselves"  Do kids really not ever play in the front yard without their parents out there watching any more, or directing what the kids are doing so they're not having to fend for themselves when it comes to playing?  Do parents who get their kids only on weekends really spend every single second in their presence and are never on their phones? 

And strangers snatching children is very rare.  A bigger problem is family members.  What did we really know about Mike, the guy who ran off with the Hootahs waitress?  And for that matter, if Barb immediately went into panic mode when Jenelle didn't respond when she hollered for her, then Barb had no business letting Jace be over there in the first place.  

 

3 hours ago, GreatKazu said:

Those two ignored Barb as she called out Jenelle's name at least 15 times before finally responding. What would have happened had one of those kids had a medical emergency or some other emergency had happened? Their cries to Jenelle would have been ignored as well.

Oh, I don't know.  She said she didn't want to talk to Barb, and didn't respond to her calls to her, and sent David out to talk to her.  I don't think you can infer how she would respond to an emergency involving the kids from how she acted with Barb. 

 

51 minutes ago, neenyah said:

To blame Barb only is IMO, very short sighted, revisionist, and absolving jenelle of blame in all her fucked up ways.

I feel the same way about excusing Barb's obvious shortcomings as a parent because she tries.  Isn't there a point at which trying simply isn't good enough, and the person has simply failed?

[mrsh]

3 minutes ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

 

Having kids playing out in the yard is being "left to fend for themselves"  Do kids really not ever play in the front yard without their parents out there watching any more, or directing what the kids are doing so they're not having to fend for themselves when it comes to playing?  Do parents who get their kids only on weekends really spend every single second in their presence and are never on their 

And strangers snatching children is very rare.  A bigger problem is family members.  What did we really know about Mike, the guy who ran off with the Hootahs waitress?  And for that matter, if Barb immediately went into panic mode when Jenelle didn't respond when she hollered for her, then Barb had no business letting Jace be over there in the first place.  

 

Oh, I don't know.  She said she didn't want to talk to Barb, and didn't respond to her calls to her, and sent David out to talk to her.  I don't think you can infer how she would respond to an emergency involving the kids from how she acted with Barb. 

 

I feel the same way about excusing Barb's obvious shortcomings as a parent because she tries.  Isn't there a point at which trying simply isn't good enough, and the person has simply failed?

Absolutely. Having kids play in the frontyard, unattended is definitely being left to fend for themselves. Especially, as Jenelle and Lurch were locked in their bedroom, apparently asleep. It's one thing to let your kids play in a fenced backyard while the parents are inside. Also, lets be real, its not like Jenelle was using this situation to show the kids the joy of using their imaginations and playing outside. She and Lurch wanted them out of their hair, and there was no concern for the kids safety. 

Also want to point out that just because stranger abductions are rare doesnt mean it is safe to let your 6 year olds out alone. What kind of parent takes the chance and says " well, odds are they won't get kidnapped, so what the heck, have them play by the road!" 

[GreatKazu]

Quote

She said she didn't want to talk to Barb, and didn't respond to her calls to her

She said "I want to be left alone" not "I don't want to talk to my mother."  Jenelle and David were in the bedroom when Barb walked into the house. 

Anyone else recall the incident of Addie walking out into the streets of the holler and having to be returned home by the police because Leah was asleep and wasn't tending to her child who was INSIDE the house? 

Quote

Isn't there a point at which trying simply isn't good enough, and the person has simply failed?

Ask Jenelle that question. 

Edited October 27, 2017 by GreatKazu

[nikita]

To look at it another way, Barb has shown remarkable restraint in only yelling at Jenelle. I cannot imagine dealing with someone like Jenelle. She just doesn't get it. Team Barb all day long.

[Booted]

4 hours ago, SPLAIN said:

Seeing that Barb is one who is pro-mental health, and knowing she assisted her two other children (one successfully) with their mental health issues, it would only make sense that she was the same way with Jenelle when she was young. I can only imagine it must have been a trying time for Barb as she tried to get Jenelle help with her mental disorders. It is not easy to get loved ones treated for mental health problems when they don't believe or feel they have problems. Over 8 seasons now we have watched a very defiant Jenelle. She does not listen to her mother even when it is for her own good.

I find it highly unfair and unreasonable to hold Barb accountable for how her child turned out, especially since that child to this day, has refused to seek the proper health and treatment for her mental disorders. What could Barb have possibly done for a defiant teenager in need of mental health? Barb cannot force medication down a defiant teenager's throat. Barb cannot force a defiant and violent teenager to attend therapy. Even if by some miracle Jenelle listened to Barb and attended therapy, who is to say she was going to follow the advice of the professional? Not even courts can force people into treatment even though they order such court-ordered treatments every  day of the week. Anyone who has worked for the courts or the mental health system can point out that people will not succeed if they truly don't want the help. We all know that one has to want to seek help. Jenelle has never truly wanted help. Her mentality is there are external forces working against her, not that her terrible life choices are the cause for her problems. I see patients at my job struggling to get their kids to follow their medical professional's advice and to take their medication. Many parents try their damnedest to get their kids to heed the medical advice of the mental health professional, but to no avail. I see some kids who take their mental health serious, but plenty do not.

Yes, Jenelle. You had a shitty life growing up. So did millions of other people. Blame your mother. Blame her again and again. Blame her until you feel better about it. After that, tell her you love her, just as she has continued to love you and forgiven you for all the hurt you yourself have done to her.  The complicated reality is, Barb loves Jenelle and has always wanted what was best for her. She did the best she could under the conditions they all lived in.  But that was then and this is now. Jenelle needs to stop holding Barb responsible for what is happening in her life. She is an adult and continuing to hold her mother accountable is not only childish, but it’s also counterproductive; it doesn’t change Jenelle's life in a healthy direction.

I am pretty sure Jenelle is trying to have very little interaction with Barb and there for will not be blaming Barb for what is going on in her life since Barb won't be in it. 

What Jenelle seems to blame Barb for is refusal to let Jenelle have her son. I remember and it was shown in this show how Barb used Jace and his custody to try to control Jenelle by continued promises of her being on the right track and saying she never said Jenelle couldn't have him until Jenelle felt she had done what she should long enough to be able to have him - Barb then changed her tune. 

Jenelle is 25 yrs old now - but she was not for most of this show. She was Barbs teenaged daughter - I wonder if she will throw Jace out if he's a troubled teen too? Or are we suppose to understand that Barb loves him more than she did Jenelle and so won't treat him the same if he's anything like Jenelle? Also why is it acceptable to throw your daughter out if you are worried about her ? You think she is going to suddenly start to make good decisions on her own? No she  will keep making bad choices until she at least matures a bit. Barb was the adult parent with control for most the show we saw and so yes I only blame her for most of the ridiculous mess their lives were which by the way have improved majorly and for a lot of it IT IS Jenelle who has shown a lot of growth. 

Why does Barb get a pass like she does? She chose to get custody of Jace and obviously wants to keep him but she does not put his feelings first - just like when he was crying mommy and clearly wanted her but Barb wouldn't let him as she had just kicked her to curb. All I hear is how Jenelle hurts Barb feelings- what about all the times Barb hurts hers ? 

Also saying that mental conditions are genetic is not placing blame. It is just a fact 

[Fosca]

For what it's worth (probably not much), Jenelle gave birth to Jace four months before she turned 18.  So when Barb kicked her out, Jenelle was legally an adult. 

And yes, no longer enabling a user by kicking them out might cause the person to have to re-evaluate the way they are living their life.

[alexa]

3 hours ago, Booted said:

I am pretty sure Jenelle is trying to have very little interaction with Barb and there for will not be blaming Barb for what is going on in her life since Barb won't be in it. 

What Jenelle seems to blame Barb for is refusal to let Jenelle have her son. I remember and it was shown in this show how Barb used Jace and his custody to try to control Jenelle by continued promises of her being on the right track and saying she never said Jenelle couldn't have him until Jenelle felt she had done what she should long enough to be able to have him - Barb then changed her tune. 

Jenelle is 25 yrs old now - but she was not for most of this show. She was Barbs teenaged daughter - I wonder if she will throw Jace out if he's a troubled teen too? Or are we suppose to understand that Barb loves him more than she did Jenelle and so won't treat him the same if he's anything like Jenelle? Also why is it acceptable to throw your daughter out if you are worried about her ? You think she is going to suddenly start to make good decisions on her own? No she  will keep making bad choices until she at least matures a bit. Barb was the adult parent with control for most the show we saw and so yes I only blame her for most of the ridiculous mess their lives were which by the way have improved majorly and for a lot of it IT IS Jenelle who has shown a lot of growth. 

Why does Barb get a pass like she does? She chose to get custody of Jace and obviously wants to keep him but she does not put his feelings first - just like when he was crying mommy and clearly wanted her but Barb wouldn't let him as she had just kicked her to curb. All I hear is how Jenelle hurts Barb feelings- what about all the times Barb hurts hers ? 

Also saying that mental conditions are genetic is not placing blame. It is just a fact 

All I know is rewatching those scenes it was clear to me there was no way that Barb could have any influence on Janelle, and by letting her stay in the house would only encourage her to take advantage of the situation and keep doing drugs because everything was paid for.  In fact the times Barb let her back in she reverted to her druggie life/maintained her druggie life.  She helped Janelle by kicking her out, imo as eventually Janelle had to find her own way.  Barb gets a pass because she loved her daughter, took care of her son, but was left in a situation that very few people could handle or control.... Janelle didn't want help.  All it takes is to see the scene where she was complaining she couldn't have pot to help her with her feelings, and she was blaming Barb for all of her issues because she couldn't have pot (after her rehab).  Barb asked if she learned coping skills and Janelle just drove off.  What can anyone do with that???????

And there was a scene in there where Janelle admitted that she had done wrong and that Jace would be in foster care without her mothers love and help.  So there you have it.... Janelle said over and over again, I will try to do better and not go down the path I was going on, but kept up that path.  And she still has....she is doing drugs right now.  with her new hubby...  

[Booger666]

8 hours ago, StatisticalOutlier said:

I feel the same way about excusing Barb's obvious shortcomings as a parent because she tries.

I think many posters are acknowledging Barb has shortcomings.  There are actions and intent.  A lot of posts for both Barb and Janelle say the actions are similar when it comes to yelling and fighting in front of Jace in the early years.  The difference, for me, is that Barb and Janelle have different intent.  Janelle is nasty to the core, doesn’t truly care about her family and has been grossly negligent to Jace.  Barb, for all her yelling, is the opposite.

I agree with all the posts about Barb throwing out Janelle being for the best.  I would not want a drug addict around me, much less a young toddler.  It would be wonderful if addiction was easily treatable but its not - and drug addicts can do just as much, if not more, harm to others as to themselves.

[CofCinci]

19 hours ago, Emkat said:

Does anybody know what Keiffer is up to these days?

Up to two 8-balls a day.