S10.E10: Full Circle

[Sprockets]

4 hours ago, Lady Writer said:

you're not going to convince me that human babies should be torn from their parents unless they are not fit to raise them for some reason.

Please point to the post that advocated babies being "torn from their parents."  I cannot find it.  

Edited October 21, 2017 by Sprockets

[lookeyloo]

Just to add in that my best friend's daughter recently had her second baby.  Best friend went to stay with them.  Said baby was breastfed from birth.  And screamed all the time.  She said it was awful.  Took baby to pediatrician after they noticed blood in his stool.  Many tests on his GI tract and determined he couldn't tolerate his mother's milk. She did all the recommended things, such as give up dairy, two weeks to start and then retest, give up certain foods, etc.  After a couple months of screaming the pediatrician recommended a very expensive formula which turns out helped the poor child.  The mother was distraught.  She successfully nursed her first child.  Which maybe a small statistical sample, but, mother's milk isn't always the solution for every baby.  

[Guest]

On 10/20/2017 at 6:15 AM, wallofsound said:

Chaz seems like such a nice person.

Yup...likeable

When he is on QVC...it's all about the: sell...sell...money... money

This behavior is (I believe) driven by the QVC coffers

It's enough to make a Catfish Motors used care salesman out of anyone.

Edited October 21, 2017 by artisto

[bichonblitz]

17 hours ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Maybe he stopped using his own goop, lol.

Funny you should mention that. He was on QVC shilling that super expensive crap yesterday. 

[Princess Kelbop]

7 hours ago, Lady Writer said:

And as she gets older, however nurturing Gage may be, there may be an emotional hole as she wonders why her mother essentially sold her like a piece of merchandise.

The woman whose womb she developed in before she was born is not her mother! She has two parents who desperately wanted her, and love her, and have the means to give her a safe and comfortable life. That's so much more than so many children get. 

[Willowsmom]

If Jeff and Gage do it right Monroe will know that they wanted a baby very much and a nice lady helped them have her. 

My  parents separated before I was born. My father chose to start a new family. I never once asked about him. Kids who are loved and taken care of don't miss what they never know. Or house was all female (mom granny and a cousin) and we  did fine. Monroe will do fine.

[Lady Writer]

8 hours ago, Sprockets said:

Please point to the post that advocated babies being "torn from their parents."  I cannot find it.  

I was describing the process of surrogacy.

[bichonblitz]

6 hours ago, Princess Kelbop said:

The woman whose womb she developed in before she was born is not her mother! She has two parents who desperately wanted her, and love her, and have the means to give her a safe and comfortable life. That's so much more than so many children get. 

That's right. Jeff's sperm fertilized a different woman's egg. It was not the surrogates egg. Even if it was, I agree with you. You can be born and live with your bio parents your entire life and never feel a connection, never feel safe or loved or nurtured. It depends on the parents who raise you, bio or not. 

[Lady Writer]

5 hours ago, Princess Kelbop said:

The woman whose womb she developed in before she was born is not her mother! She has two parents who desperately wanted her, and love her, and have the means to give her a safe and comfortable life. That's so much more than so many children get. 

I don't know enough about the science to know how the egg supplied by one woman adapts to the body of another, but a child can't come into this world without a mother being involved somewhere. Women aren't just soulless egg factories. Genetics -- and infants' needs -- aren't something that disappear just because people may choose not to acknowledge them.

I realize that Monroe will have a lot more than most children get, but I would suggest that we need to raise the standards of what other children get, not lower everyone else's. The fact that so many adopted children have, and often act on, a longing to find their natural parents would suggest that the human (and animal) soul needs more than safety and comfort. Of course love, as you mentioned, is the key element, and it's tragic that so many kids on earth don't get that; but love should be the baseline expectation for a child coming into the world, not some lofty height.

Again, nothing is going to convince me that a baby who is pulled from its mother and immediately handed off to someone else, never to feel her warmth and rhythms again, is not going to sense that perceived rejection, possibly for the rest of their lives, no matter how much love is forthcoming from elsewhere afterwards.

Part of the reason so many people in general end up in bad relationships is because they're looking to someone else to provide something they're missing from childhood, whether they're conscious of it or not. I don't think playing down the importance of a soul's earliest possible bond on earth is doing humankind any favors.

Throwing water on a kid's head while you furiously do the math to find the richest possible godfather is going to make them bond with God, but the spiritual connection with a mother is meaningless?

[Lady Writer]

1 hour ago, Willowsmom said:

Kids who are loved and taken care of don't miss what they never know.

The soul always knows.

1 hour ago, Willowsmom said:

Or house was all female (mom granny and a cousin) and we  did fine. Monroe will do fine.

I'm happy that you're happy, but I think it would be really cool if the human race could aspire to more than "fine."

[Gem 10]

14 hours ago, Lady Writer said:

Life is not always about what "one wants." One doesn't have to start with a newborn. The best decision for Jeff and Gage may not be the best decision for the baby, who is deprived of her mother's milk during her most formative period, for one thing, at the most basic level. And as she gets older, however nurturing Gage may be, there may be an emotional hole as she wonders why her mother essentially sold her like a piece of merchandise.

Full disclosure: I'm a vegetarian who doesn't even approve of the way humans rip animal families apart or breed them because of their own desires to have cute little kittens or handbag puppies (I've seen way too many nature documentaries to buy the belief that animals don't bond to each other and feel emotional pain upon separation just like we do), so you're not going to convince me that human babies should be torn from their parents unless they are not fit to raise them for some reason.

I get what you are sayin about the "emotional hole".   I'm a mother of three, grandmother of six, and I guess you can consider me "old school" and naive to all this in vitro, surrogacy, eggs, who's carrying, etc.. I'm not looking to question or disagree with anyone either.   Years ago, it was all about adoption and what the adopted child would think and want to know about their parents.  Now, there are so many questions they could ask.  Who's my mother, where did I come from, why do I have two fathers or two mothers, who carried me?  Where does it end?  It is very mind boggling to me.  No offense to anyone .. Just wondering.  It's a lot to handle for both children and parents.

[Lady Writer]

6 minutes ago, Gem 10 said:

I get what you are sayin about the "emotional hole".  

Thanks for getting me, even just a little!

[chenoa333]

Why didn't Jeff and Gage just adopt a baby? 

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, chenoa333 said:

Why didn't Jeff and Gage just adopt a baby? 

Knowing how they both operate, they probably investigated everything for at least a year .. Maybe more.

[Sprockets]

1 hour ago, chenoa333 said:

 

Why didn't Jeff and Gage just adopt a baby? 

 

Probably for one or more of the reasons any couple decides not to adopt.  

[ChickenLatte99]

My mother did a terrible job raising me and my siblings. We didn't NEED a toxic mother. We NEEDED a parent that loved and cherished us. I would've gladly accepted 2 dads if that meant we were granted pure unconditional love.

Edited October 22, 2017 by ChickenLatte99

[SuprSuprElevated]

13 hours ago, ChickenLatte99 said:

My mother did a terrible job raising me and my siblings. We didn't NEED a toxic mother. We NEEDED a parent that loved and cherished us. I would've gladly accepted 2 dads if that meant we were granted pure unconditional love.

I can't like this enough.  I'm not educated enough about human development or psychology to be able to opine about whether or not the lack of a relationship with the biologically related egg donor will negatively affect anyone's life, but I believe it is a fallacy to adhere to the principal that having one will be an emotional/spiritual asset absolutely.  I think there's a whole lotta grey in between these two notions, based on personal experience, which is what I have to go on.

ymmv

Edited October 22, 2017 by SuprSuprElevated

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 6:19 AM, SuprSuprElevated said:

I too was taken aback that Zoila wasn't at the baptism.  Her being out of the country makes sense.  I wondered if it was because Laura was there, or if she was pissy because she wasn't made Godmother.  Neither of these reasons would surprise me.  It was a beautiful part of the episode, and I'm glad they chose to share it with us.  Gage didn't appear to participate in the verbal part of the ceremony, so maybe this is yet another concession he made to Jeff.  I really do feel like he's going to get his heart ripped out of his chest one of these days by Jeff.  Jeff will get a couple of kiddos, and that'll be all the human interaction he will need...bye bye Gage.  Hope I'm wrong.

Was it just me, or did the finale of this episode have a bit of we're done with this show vibe to it?  Wouldn't surprise me.  I think JL is probably at the point that the income from Bravo isn't significant enough for him to be bothered with it.  We'll see.

That was odd to me too, but they really do sort of seem like parents of convenience.  They probably didn't want to risk her screaming through their luncheon.

eta - sounds harsh, I know...more than I intend, just don't know how else to say it I guess.

I don't really agree with this sentence.  They complain about her - a lot - but I think it's because they haven't been around babies in general, and they don't really get a break from all of the screaming, even at work.  Gage is all over that baby, to the extent he has a hard time letting the nannies have full control.  In fact, Jeff even made a comment that Gage is so much about the baby, that Jeff had to insist on having more time with her and now feeds her in the morning.

I have no idea if these guys will split up, but if Gage is smart (I think he is), he will be the sperm donor for the next one.  Now this doesn't mean I think they will go their own ways with their own bio kid, it just makes them more interwoven as a family.  I notice that Jeff seems to take ownership of Monroe - he's the one in the photo shoot, etc.  I hope Gage has or will adopt Monroe to ensure he has legal rights if they do split up.

By the way - I thought they were married.  Jeff keeps saying he will divorce Gage, which is impossible if they're not even married.

On ‎10‎/‎20‎/‎2017 at 8:15 AM, escapetoreality said:

I really connected with the comment that as two male parents they feel overly judged in public. I am sure that is the case and frankly I had't thought about that before so am grateful for the insight.   Strangers can be really nosy/inappropriate/even cruel.  

I agree on this.  I think part of the problem is they were probably the type of people who were very annoyed and impatient with other people's screaming kids.  Therefore, they assume others will be just as judgmental to them.  Their anxiety of having Monroe in public may rub off on her and become a self-fulfilling prophecy.  

It's wonderful that Jeff goes to therapy, but they really do need couple's therapy.  I'm not really familiar with their relationship pre-Monroe, but a lot of their problems now seem like typical stressed out baby parent issues, and people who work and live together and get sick of each other.  I think Gage should be a stay at home dad until he's ready to work again, and Jeff should support this.  Have a part-time nanny or have staff cover the times that both dads will be gone or occupied.  

[RedheadZombie]

On ‎10‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 2:33 PM, Willowsmom said:

If Jeff and Gage do it right Monroe will know that they wanted a baby very much and a nice lady helped them have her. 

My  parents separated before I was born. My father chose to start a new family. I never once asked about him. Kids who are loved and taken care of don't miss what they never know. Or house was all female (mom granny and a cousin) and we  did fine. Monroe will do fine.

I agree with what you're saying for the most part, but everyone is different.  I was adopted by parents who desperately wanted me and adored me, but I've always yearned to know about my biological mom - and I have a wonderful mom!  Strangely, I've never been interested in the father, even though my father died when I was 17.  I was told at one point that the bio dad had been a married man, and that probably sealed the deal to my lack of interest.

Monroe is a girl, and no matter how wonderful and her perfect life is, she may yearn to know the woman she's biologically related to.  Some donors agree to let their info go to the resultant children, and if her dads agree, Monroe may meet her someday.  Sometimes, just knowing who the person is and meeting them once is all it takes.  Sometimes you need more.  And sometimes, like in your case, you don't feel the need at all.

[biakbiak]

27 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Gage is smart (I think he is), he will be the sperm donor for the next one.  Now this doesn't mean I think they will go their own ways with their own bio kid, it just makes them more interwoven as a family.  I notice that Jeff seems to take ownership of Monroe - he's the one in the photo shoot, etc.  I hope Gage has or will adopt Monroe to ensure he has legal rights if they do split up.

They already have stated that Gage is the sperm donor for the next child. They froze embryos with both of their sperm and the same egg donor but went with Jeff's first because he is older and had fewer viable embroys.

As for the photoshoot, Gage doesn't really do any press. He does the show and Jeff's radio show but other than that nothing and isn't even on SM so I think it being Jeff alone had much more to do with Gage not wanting to be in it than Jeff taking ownership over her. I find Gage's lack of media presence fascinating. I can find more articles on Google about myself than Gage.

[RedheadZombie]

1 minute ago, biakbiak said:

They already have stated that Gage is the sperm donor for the next child. They froze embryos with both of their sperm and the same egg donor but went with Jeff's first because he is older and had fewer viable embroys.

As for the photoshoot, Gage doesn't really do any press. He does the show and Jeff's radio show but other than that nothing and isn't even on SM so I think it being Jeff alone had much more to do with Gage not wanting to be in than Jeff taking ownership over her. I find Gage's lack of media presence fascinating. I kind find more articles on Google about myself than Gage.

Do you think Gage would be happier if he weren't filmed?  I'm assuming the show was already going before Gage came along?

[biakbiak]

2 minutes ago, RedheadZombie said:

Some donors agree to let their info go to the resultant children, and if her dads agree, Monroe may meet her someday. 

The egg donor is a friend of a friend and Jeff mentioned in some interview that door was open.

[RedheadZombie]

Just now, biakbiak said:

The egg donor is a friend of a friend and Jeff mentioned in some interview that door was open.

That's great.  Hopefully they will let Monroe lead on that decision.

[biakbiak]

Just now, RedheadZombie said:

Do you think Gage would be happier if he weren't filmed?  I'm assuming the show was already going before Gage came along?

Probably. He was actually living with Jeff for awhile before he came on the show. If you look in the background of Ryan's daughter Chloe's birthday you can see him though you would also have to listen to Jenny rap so I wouldn't recommend it. He was also working for Jeff at the time.

[RedheadZombie]

2 minutes ago, biakbiak said:

Probably. He was actually living with Jeff for awhile before he came on the show. If you look in the background of Ryan's daughter Chloe's birthday you can see him though you would also have to listen to Jenny rap so I wouldn't recommend it. He was also working for Jeff at the time.

Monroe would probably be better off with the office outside the home, but I know part of the appeal is the interaction with the house staff.  Maybe now that Zoila's gone, they will reconsider that decision.  I would miss the mix of business/home, but if Gage prefers to be off camera, that would be healthier for the whole family.

[car54]

I loved this episode---after their early challenges, it seems like Jeff and Gage and Monroe have hit their stride and maybe having a slower time with less staff in the house will help them in the long run get Monroe into a good routine that they all thrive in.    I kind of wish they'd run their offices out of the guest house they're building and let home be home for the family.       It feels to me like Jeff and Gage have a good rhythm and a plan for how they want to raise their child/children, and they seemed much more settled and relaxed by the end of the season.

I loved seeing what a softie Chaz was and I think Jennie is the perfect god-mother.   I bet someday her baby and Aliana and Monroe will be little girlfriends.

I did not see Jeff's grandmother --I hope she is able to have some time with her little great-granddaughter.    

This show made me a little teary-eyed, remembering how alone uptight Jeff was when they started the series.   He's had a long journey to get where he is now, and he seems to really appreciate what he has.

[Willowsmom]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

 

 

 

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

Monroe is a girl, and no matter how wonderful and her perfect life is, she may yearn to know the woman she's biologically related to.  Some donors agree to let their info go to the resultant children, and if her dads agree, Monroe may meet her someday.  Sometimes, just knowing who the person is and meeting them once is all it takes.  Sometimes you need more.  And sometimes, like in your case, you don't feel the need at all.

I agree but there is no biological mom to point to. Alex isn't related, she was n incubator. The egg donor may have no interest in the outcome of her harvest.

Monroe will have female family. If nothing else there is Jeff's s-i-l and his step mom. Even godmother Jenni. All of whom, I'm sure, will be happy to help Monroe.  And Jeff very much strikes me as someone that makes his own family and at some point will find a surrogate female figure for her.

[RedheadZombie]

1 minute ago, Willowsmom said:

 

 

I agree but there is no biological mom to point to. Alex isn't related, she was n incubator. The egg donor may have no interest in the outcome of her harvest.

Monroe will have female family. If nothing else there is Jeff's s-i-l and his step mom. Even godmother Jenni. All of whom, I'm sure, will be happy to help Monroe.  And Jeff very much strikes me as someone that makes his own family and at some point will find a surrogate female figure for her.

Monroe is related, biologically, to the woman who helped create her.  Monroe may feel the need to meet her, and she may not.  I'm not speaking of a "surrogate female".  I had a wonderful mother, yet wondered about my biological mother.  It's not for others to immediately dismiss - it's for Monroe to decide for herself.

[WichitaStateShock]

I'm a psychologist and the research consistently shows there is no difference in outcomes for those raised with same sex parents vs opposite sex parents. 

[RedheadZombie]

5 minutes ago, WichitaStateShock said:

I'm a psychologist and the research consistently shows there is no difference in outcomes for those raised with same sex parents vs opposite sex parents. 

I don't believe this post was directed at me, because I've been addressing whether a child will feel the need to seek out their biological parent.  That has nothing to do with your statement - which I completely agree with.

[WichitaStateShock]

1 hour ago, RedheadZombie said:

I don't believe this post was directed at me, because I've been addressing whether a child will feel the need to seek out their biological parent.  That has nothing to do with your statement - which I completely agree with.

Someone was discussing that Monroe is upset a lot due to not having a mother and that a mother is needed in order to have a successful life. Not directed toward you, at all

[SimonSeymour]

On 10/21/2017 at 4:17 PM, Lady Writer said:

 

Again, nothing is going to convince me that a baby who is pulled from its mother and immediately handed off to someone else, never to feel her warmth and rhythms again, is not going to sense that perceived rejection, possibly for the rest of their lives, no matter how much love is forthcoming from elsewhere afterwards.

Part of the reason so many people in general end up in bad relationships is because they're looking to someone else to provide something they're missing from childhood, whether they're conscious of it or not. I don't think playing down the importance of a soul's earliest possible bond on earth is doing humankind any favors.

 

 I realize that you don’t know me and didn’t intend to personally offend me, but the part that I bolded is just so offensive to many of us who are adopted. 

 

I was adopted from birth by my parents. The girl (yes, girl) who gave birth to me was 15 years old. I suppose it’s possible that I have either suppressed or I’m not self-aware enough to “sense that perceived rejection,” but I feel fairly confident in stating that I haven’t. My parents were and are not perfect, but I feel 100% confident in stating that I was better off (by miles) with them than if I had been raised by a 15 year old girl, despite the fact that we would have had a biological bond. Rather than feel rejected, I have always felt GRATEFUL toward her for realizing that she was not equipped to raise a child and made what I imagine was the very difficult decision of placing me with people who could. 

 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Lisin
Fixed bold issue

[Locutus]

I was a little confused at the end of the episode. They have them discussing the exodus of their office staff and the going ahead, probably, with a second child. Then a big SIX MONTHS LATER...I was expecting a new surrogate scene, or perhaps Vanina suddenly being there. But, it was simply a construction scene? Maybe they wanted to show that they were still in business as usual. It just seemed odd to do a time jump for no dramatic purpose. 

I was amused at the exchange between Jeff and Gage in the car. Jeff telling us how Gage is all body-glittered up on Saturday nights and then a stern looking Gage giving a terse "JEFF!?!". 

Edited October 23, 2017 by Locutus

[diadochokinesis]

11 hours ago, SimonSeymour said:

I realize that you don’t know me and didn’t intend to personally offend me, but the part that I bolded is just so offensive to many of us who are adopted. 

 

I was adopted from birth birth by my parents. The girl (yes, girl) who gave birth to me was 15 years old. I suppose it’s possible that I have either suppressed or I’m not self-aware enough to “sense that perceived rejection,” but I feel fairly confident in stating that I haven’t. My parents were and are not perfect, but I feel 100% confident in stating that I was better off (by miles) with them than if I had been raised by a 15 year old girl, despite the fact that we would have had a biological bond. Rather than feel rejected, I have always felt GRATEFUL toward her for realizing that she was not equipped to raise a child and made what I imagine was the very difficult decision of placing me with people who could. 

 

I agree with you.  I'm not adopted but we have several adoptions in my family and probably a good quarter to third of my friends are adopted or have adopted children. You have some that wanted to know their biological parents and others that didn't.  It is like mayo.  Some people like mayo, others don't. You can't make a broad, sweeping generalization about people and how they are going to feel. 

The soul doesn't know that it has been pulled away from its biological mother. They did kangaroo time with Monroe right after she was born.  I have one friend that didn't even get to hold her newborn for 2 months because he was a micro preemie. He's 5 and healthy and his soul is intact. Well, he is a redhead...  LOL. 

[tobeannounced]

Wow, so many interesting topics this episode has brought up. And let me say how pleased I am that they're able to be discussed without cursing or calling people names or freaking out because someone has a different opinion.

I'm a spiritual person, and I believe that what the soul ultimately longs for is a connection to God. That being said, there is nothing like having a nurturing mother. It is a beautiful thing, but I think we all know that there are some feral human females who have no business being a mother to anything. 

I also think that the emphasis on the importance of having a mother discounts the immense importance of having a father's love and influence in your life. Yes, I'm sure there are exceptions, but there are many souls in pain on this earth today because their fathers' involvement ended after conception.

Edited October 23, 2017 by tobeannounced

[humbleopinion]

http://parentingoc.com/2017/05/monroe-and-jeff-lewis/

Here's the link to the article that went with the Parenting OC magazine cover shoot.

[gunderda]

On 10/20/2017 at 5:15 AM, wallofsound said:

Chaz seems like such a nice person.   His talking head about constantly talking about how badly behaved & loud Monroe is was on point.   I agree with that kind of thinking completely.   As Gage said, I don't think either of them want to project any type of image aside from perfection and a small baby is so unpredictable and out of their control.   They need to chill.  Even Jenni was saying that she told them small babies cry all the time and even turn red.   People understand if your baby cries in public or even cries during your private Baptism   

I always thought he came off as a completely a-hole or at least a huge diva.  But this episode made me love him! I didn't even think about Jeff and Gage's comments about Monroe until Chaz said what he said.  And even then at the baptism he was saying "angel angel angel" into her ear.

 

 

On 10/20/2017 at 6:10 PM, Sprockets said:

No it wasn't.  Also, if Jeff's business can operate for even a day with such a small staff, both domestic and professional, why have we had to watch the revolving door on what seems like enough people to fill a bus?  

A lot of them seemed to work part time.  Megan is part time. Cat was part time.  I'm willing to bet Jenny is only there for filming or very very part time.  Vanina seemed to be the only full time along with the other short term assistants.  I think Jeff wants to hire more to maybe get more off his plate (although I don't think he has the mental ability to do that), especially when he had a lot of clients.  But now that his clients are winding down and he wants to go back to focusing on their own projects he can keep a smaller staff. 

On 10/20/2017 at 7:42 PM, wallofsound said:

I don't know how to say this without offending either same sex couples or people who choose to formula feed, but here goes ... nursing a baby is the ultimate way to comfort and soothe them.    When I see Jeff & Gage frustrated with Monroe's screaming, I always feel badly that they don't have that as an option.   And who knows,  maybe it wouldn't even comfort Monroe or maybe her  discomfort is caused by something bigger.   I think I nursed my kids every single time they cried or fussed until they were probably six months old.   All of that being said,  I could not care less what anyone else chooses to feed their baby and I fully support same sex adoption.   Just relating what worked for me in comparison to the tools they have to work with.   

I'm not a mom so i might get these terms wrong but if you've been following along at all this season on the boards you would know that is caused by something bigger.  I believe she was colic and also had acid reflux. 

19 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Do you think Gage would be happier if he weren't filmed?  I'm assuming the show was already going before Gage came along?

I think he's more comfortable with it now but at the beginning you could tell he was definitely not a fan.  He came off as very cold. I love it when Gage opens up!

 

And I really can't believe we're even having a discussion about why or why not Monroe needs a "mom". 

[wallofsound]

1 hour ago, gunderda said:

I'm not a mom so i might get these terms wrong but if you've been following along at all this season on the boards you would know that is caused by something bigger.  I believe she was colic and also had acid reflu

Yes, and the formula could be causing the reflux.    Some kids are unable to digest it. That was my point.  

[Lisin]

15 minutes ago, wallofsound said:

Yes, and the formula could be causing the reflux.    Some kids are unable to digest it. That was my point.  

It could be. Could be also the baby just has reflux. I had friends who tried everything... it was a bio-pregnancy so mom tried an elimination diet, they tried a ton of different formula options etc. none worked, baby grew out of it. Another family I know the baby ended up needing surgery for a hernia that was causing it. They could have bought breast milk if they actually thought that was an issue. It's a thing. It may not be fully legal but a market for it definitely exists. They could have had the surrogate pump and ship had they felt it was necessary. I imagine they did have her pump for the first few days so they could get that sweet sweet colostrum. My point is that there's no "one" answer to any of this and trying to fit everyone into the same box always ends up with people having hurt feelings. 

[Madding crowd]

I do believe Jeff and Gage love their daughter. I also think they are going to struggle as parents, not because they are two men, but because they don't like noise, disorder, or being off schedule, and are not physically affectionate people, which babies need. I also think we can only judge and talk about we see. If every comment made is answered with "This is not how it really is so you can't comment on this" then we might as well not have forums for these types of shows. I realize we don't see every minute of their lives, but I believe what we do see is reflective of there lives. I believe Jeff and Gage are pretty much like shown-both personally and professionally. 

I do worry that Monroe isn't getting out in the fresh air much, or getting snuggles. Jeff said during this episode that they don't take her out because she is so fussy. I can understand not taking her to resturarants but she could take trips to the zoo, playgroups, playgrounds and many other things. I dont believe she does any of this because they don't have steady nannies and they spend most of their time working. This opinion is based on what is shown to us on TV since none of us actually live with them or know otherwise. 

[shoovenbooty]

Jeff and Gage need to realize that it's okay for a baby to cry. Poor Gage explaining to Chaz that if Monroe starts getting upset, to hurry and bounce her up and down so she'll stop! They seem terrified to let her cry at all, and rush to hush her like it's an emergency.

 I sometimes wonder while I'm watching these episodes, if maybe part of Monroe's problem is that she's overstimulated? She never has any down time. If she's awake, someone has to be interacting with her. Watching the scenes from previous episodes with just Jeff, Gage, and Monroe at home together seemed so stressful. They kept trying this toy, and that toy, and this contraption, and that one. Put a blanket down on the floor and let the kid roll around on it and just look around a little! Let her wake up in her crib and play alone for a while, instead of rushing into the nursery the moment she makes a peep, to pick her up. She always has somebody in her face.

[Gem 10]

1 hour ago, shoovenbooty said:

Jeff and Gage need to realize that it's okay for a baby to cry. Poor Gage explaining to Chaz that if Monroe starts getting upset, to hurry and bounce her up and down so she'll stop! They seem terrified to let her cry at all, and rush to hush her like it's an emergency.

 I sometimes wonder while I'm watching these episodes, if maybe part of Monroe's problem is that she's overstimulated? She never has any down time. If she's awake, someone has to be interacting with her. Watching the scenes from previous episodes with just Jeff, Gage, and Monroe at home together seemed so stressful. They kept trying this toy, and that toy, and this contraption, and that one. Put a blanket down on the floor and let the kid roll around on it and just look around a little! Let her wake up in her crib and play alone for a while, instead of rushing into the nursery the moment she makes a peep, to pick her up. She always has somebody in her face.

 

1 hour ago, shoovenbooty said:

Jeff and Gage need to realize that it's okay for a baby to cry. Poor Gage explaining to Chaz that if Monroe starts getting upset, to hurry and bounce her up and down so she'll stop! They seem terrified to let her cry at all, and rush to hush her like it's an emergency.

 I sometimes wonder while I'm watching these episodes, if maybe part of Monroe's problem is that she's overstimulated? She never has any down time. If she's awake, someone has to be interacting with her. Watching the scenes from previous episodes with just Jeff, Gage, and Monroe at home together seemed so stressful. They kept trying this toy, and that toy, and this contraption, and that one. Put a blanket down on the floor and let the kid roll around on it and just look around a little! Let her wake up in her crib and play alone for a while, instead of rushing into the nursery the moment she makes a peep, to pick her up. She always has somebody in her face.

Yes.  And they should take that damn thick bib off her neck.  That would annoy any baby.

[biakbiak]

1 hour ago, shoovenbooty said:

They kept trying this toy, and that toy, and this ctrapion, and that one. 

You mean during the montage where they were wearing different clothes?

[Gem 10]

Jenny is a woman and a mother and a good friend to Jeff & Gage.  What I don't get is why she doesn't give Jeff advice on what to do when Monroe is fussy, gassy, unhappy, whatever.  She should give them tips what to do with a baby.  All I remember raising three kids is switching them all over the place all day long.  Crib time, floor time, playpen, swing, carriage, bouncy seat, etc.. Then holding them with the blankie and pacifier, then feeding.  All the husband did was sometimes give a bottle, burp and rock them (once in awhile) and hold and carry them around if I was cooking or busy with something.  That's it !!!!!   These men nowadays do it all.  But, sometimes they don't have a clue.  That's nature I guess, but they try and that's good.  Monroe is growing up and pretty soon she'll be running the house I'll bet.  Just hope that Jeff and Gage stay together.

[heatherchandler]

On 10/21/2017 at 1:44 AM, Maximona said:

The kid was clearly very colicky in the first few months.  There was probably a dietary component behind that:  She wasn't tolerating the formula they were giving her.  Probably breast milk would have helped, and I'm surprised breast milk banks aren't available for adoptive parents.  You'd think that would be a business opportunity.

Of course, fairly soon, the kid realized that her shrieking elicited a certain type of response, so now she shrieks when she wants the attention.  Jeff and Gage totally reinforce this behavior.  Obnoxious child and obnoxious parents.

I did like the old wood floors, though, scavenged from poor people in Kentucky.

 

I believe it has been proven that babies (specifically infants) are not manipulative.  They are crying because they need something.  Not because they are selfishly attention-seeking.  Babies cry for specific reasons, and sometimes they want to be held.  That is not obnoxious, that is just a baby being a baby.  

That manipulative behavior doesn't happen until the child is older, when you get temper tantrums.  

 

 

On 10/21/2017 at 1:04 AM, Lady Writer said:

Life is not always about what "one wants." One doesn't have to start with a newborn. The best decision for Jeff and Gage may not be the best decision for the baby, who is deprived of her mother's milk during her most formative period, for one thing, at the most basic level. And as she gets older, however nurturing Gage may be, there may be an emotional hole as she wonders why her mother essentially sold her like a piece of merchandise.

Full disclosure: I'm a vegetarian who doesn't even approve of the way humans rip animal families apart or breed them because of their own desires to have cute little kittens or handbag puppies (I've seen way too many nature documentaries to buy the belief that animals don't bond to each other and feel emotional pain upon separation just like we do), so you're not going to convince me that human babies should be torn from their parents unless they are not fit to raise them for some reason.

Absolutely!  There are chemical bonding reactions going on in all animals (humans included) that we don't even know about.  

[LilaFowler]

Who is Cat's husband? Anyone interesting?

[biakbiak]

13 minutes ago, LilaFowler said:

Who is Cat's husband? Anyone interesting?

Mark Paul Gosselaar.

[RedheadZombie]

On October 23, 2017 at 7:43 PM, shoovenbooty said:

Jeff and Gage need to realize that it's okay for a baby to cry. Poor Gage explaining to Chaz that if Monroe starts getting upset, to hurry and bounce her up and down so she'll stop! They seem terrified to let her cry at all, and rush to hush her like it's an emergency.

 I sometimes wonder while I'm watching these episodes, if maybe part of Monroe's problem is that she's overstimulated? She never has any down time. If she's awake, someone has to be interacting with her. Watching the scenes from previous episodes with just Jeff, Gage, and Monroe at home together seemed so stressful. They kept trying this toy, and that toy, and this contraption, and that one. Put a blanket down on the floor and let the kid roll around on it and just look around a little! Let her wake up in her crib and play alone for a while, instead of rushing into the nursery the moment she makes a peep, to pick her up. She always has somebody in her face.

I agree with most of what you're saying.  I think the problem is Monroe's reflux, which seems quite significant.  It goes beyond a comfort issue, although I will vouch for the fact that chronic GERD can be very painful.  The problem is that she's still a baby and can easily aspirate and even choke to death on that stomach acid.   So we see her upright all of the time which is advised by pediatricians.   I also thinks it's possible that they hyper react to her crying because it was once reflective of pain.

I think it's also why some see the dads detached, because they don't cradle her as she eats.  She needs to be as upright as possible, and they look at her and talk while she's eating.  At some point she will be allowed to lay flatter, and I imagine we will see her on the floor beginning to scoot.  These guys seem like they follow doctor's orders to the T, and they aren't going to keep her propped in chairs 24/7 once she's able to sit up properly.  Many parents are instructed to have babies with reflux sleep in their swings, so I'm not seeing anything unusual. 

[aguabella]

Managed to get through this season but sorry, didn't it seem like 10th verse, same as the 1st, 2nd, ... and so on?

Zoila moving and quitting when apparently, in real life, she never lived in their home, period!

Jenny's bad acting.  Showing up to film when it's obvious she hasn't worked there since S1, probably.

Jeff's unprofessional behavior, faux Bravo clients, Mrs. Tommy rocker chick trying to act, other Bravo bad actors, ...

Gage conflicts, Gage/Zoila, Jeff pulling rank on Gage, and on and on ...

Jeff doing his thing at the season's public function, e.g. the christening, Jenny's wedding or whatever ...

 

Ok, a couple things about this episode, specifically.  Why couldn't Gage appear on the OC mag?

Anyone kinda' sad, like me, when, during the offseason, Jeff put Monroe in her first commercial at 5 months?  Didn't he even say something during the episode about making money off his child?

Earlier episode but anyone notice the wry smile from Gage when he said that Monroe was such a difficult baby - that even the doctors called her "special" (IIRC) ???

 

Fine by me if they decide to call this, "The End". 

[Lisin]

14 hours ago, RedheadZombie said:

Many parents are instructed to have babies with reflux sleep in their swings, so I'm not seeing anything unusual. 

Yeah, my friends who had the baby with bad reflux even built a ramp kind of thing to put under the mattress so he could kinda sorta lay down because they were trying everything. Reflux sucks! It's super stressful on parents, especially first time parents. Extra especially first time parents who don't have a ton of experience with babies to begin with.