S06.E02: Tribute

[Angel12d]

5 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

I'm not sure what it is about this season, but this is the second episode now that I've just felt...meh about. I was irritated by a lot, I liked very little, and it's not like I loathe the season but....I'm just not invested in it.

I think Felicity has been pushed too much to the side in favour of Dinah. Because apparently, no more than one female character can be used at a time in a friendship way. I get that people really wanted seasons 1 and 2 Felicity back, but....she's really not back. 

Speaking of, apparently nobody but Dinah has noticed this and now these two are apparently best friends who will surely implode the Lyla/John romance for....actor chemistry, I guess?

I feel the same way tbh. 

And they've definitely pushed Felicity to the side and this was my biggest concern. In any other show two women can have joint focus but on Arrow it's seemingly impossible. And because Dinah is BC and comic canon, Felicity gets shafted. I'm so mad.

One sure fire way to make me hate a character is to prop them at others expense. And because of Dinah we're getting little Felicity and no Delicity and pretty much no OTA because god forbid, Oliver, Felicity and Diggle talk to each other like they used to.

I wanna fight!

Edited October 20, 2017 by Angel12d

[quarks]

Decent episode, up until the last two rage inducing minutes, which I shall rage about. You have been warned.

Good things:

1. Finally, Arrow is addressing one of the most pressing questions on this show: what, exactly do any of these people do for money?

2. "We're Mr. Terrific and Overwatch."  "Overwatch and Mr. Terrific."  Felicity is correct.

3. Hey, the television reporter is apparently back working for Star City full time! I am relieved. Especially since she's the sort of helpful reporter that just accepts everything handed to her and doesn't bother to check for little things like Photoshop.

Though, given that she's now been doing this gig for six years, and has actually crossed over to one of the other shows, isn't it about time that we see her out in the field, asking questions with the other reporters?  And maybe get her name?

4. Yay, Oliver is teaching his kid violence! I probably shouldn't approve of this, but I do.  Largely because it confirms my earlier opinion that Oliver is a very bad parent. Even the kid is like WHOA.  Totally with you, kid!

5. I love how Oliver is out in a nice car in the sun, and then, by the next scene, when it's time for a fight, everything is nice and dark.  Stick with your theme, Arrow!

6. I also love this FBI agent. "Do I look stupid?" No, no you do not. Great job with taking apart Team Arrow's rather questionable coverups.  And her conversation with Rene. Also, great chemistry with Amell. I'd be fine with making her a permanent part of this show. (And I'm incredibly sorry that Arrow didn't manage to cast this actress as Amanda Waller - about 100% more screen presence, and far more convincing as a government agent.)

7. Anatoly! Delightful even when taking hostages. Possibly even more delightful. And Oliver still has his contact info saved on his phone. Awwww. Now that's true post-island friendship, everyone.

8. YAY, Felicity is starting up her own company at last, which also means that she is getting a plot line this season! I approve of both. Slightly bothered that some of the hacking stuff had to come from Curtis this episode - that should really be Felicity's thing, while Curtis sticks with inventing - but this is giving them both something to do while telling the occasional joke. It's working for me.

9. Also, Felicity's outfits, while still looking amazing, were a little less over the top and distracting this time, so, yay.

10. Love the way this show has to distinguish between programming language and supervillain when saying "Python."

11. Nice scene between Oliver and Rene there.  The two terrible fathers trying to work out parenting together. Awwww.

12. And yay, Oliver finally noticed something was up with Diggle. Something that got undercut about five minutes later, but I'll take it for now.

13. It seems that at least some - not all - of my complaints about the production quality may actually have been complaints about Bamford. This episode shows how much better Arrow looks when you have a director who uses the camera effectively while fully aware that she's shooting in a 16:9 aspect ratio, like, it's the little things like knowing what type of camera you are using, looking at you, Bamford.  (Sorry, everyone - as I said on the other threads, I'm still mindboggled.)  Belsey actually managed some amazing, near cinematographic shots, and proved that yes, YOU CAN SHOOT ACTION SCENES USING A COMBINATION OF CLOSE, MEDIUM AND LONG SHOTS I KNOW AMAZING RIGHT. I'd add, Bamford, that you might want to look at the shot she took of the van coming out of the warehouse, and the subsequent long shots, to see how a 1080i camera can effectively use forced perspective to create the illusion of space and distance. Learn from your incoming directors.

On a related note, I'm feeling much more confident about the new camera guys.

14. Also on a happier note, good to see day players and extras back on the show!

(We still had set issues and other production problems, so....let's not get overly excited here. But it's something!)

15. NO FLASHBACKS. I liked them during the first two seasons, and occasionally during the third and fifth seasons, but I have to say, this episode moved much more smoothly without them.

Questionable things:

1. Oliver. Just because virtually every lawyer on this show has met with a violent, nasty end, and your last lawyer friend ended up chaining you up and trying to blow your beloved evil island to bits, doesn't mean you shouldn't have one!  Especially since the FBI wants to question your kid, who, let's face it, is not going to stand up against this FBI agent. GET A LAWYER, Oliver!

2. "I wonder what would happen to William with someone who is not good." Anatoly. You know that Oliver's kid is living with him. Which strongly suggests you've been watching this show. In which case, you know full well what happens to William: he gets kidnapped, like, lots, which is bad, but on the other hand, this does eventually remove him from the custody of one of the worst characters to ever appear on this show and his new parent is all about videogames and telling him he can punch people in the nose, so I rather figure it evens out for him. 

(I may have residual Samantha problems.)

3. Given that the FBI is suspicious, shouldn't the FBI be following Oliver and noticing things like the guy climbing out of a limo and running off to go fight people?

4. And speaking of the FBI, didn't the feds say just last year that Green Arrow is an awesome person because he helps fight off evil aliens, or did Team Legends accidentally change this too?

5. Wait. Barry gave the kid this Flash backpack? A, when? Barry just got back. And B, Passive aggressive much, Barry, what with giving the kid your logo and not his father's?

6. Rene, even by your standards, that was a lousy attempt at feminism.

7. Kid, we just established in the last episode that you have grandparents, so what is this "I'll be alone!" stuff? Especially since the last two episodes have convinced me that you'd be better off with them.

8. Has this doctor never heard of privacy laws?

9. And, I mean, it's great that Team Arrow now has a consulting doctor again, but...isn't anyone else even slightly worried that she's just handing out poison antidotes without a prescription or seeing the patient? Just me?

10."This is the second time that Mayor Queen has faced allegations…." That's correct, news reporters! So why are you leaving most of the digging to the FBI?  At this point, it should not be hard to track down one of the 75 or more people who know Oliver's identity and get them drunk enough to talk.  I mean, Nate figured it out. You can too.

11. And on that basis, why is anyone coming in to do business in a city that keeps getting attacked by vigilantes, and where the mayor has now been accused multiple times of running around and shooting arrows in people. I would go elsewhere. Coast City seems to have fewer attacks AND great pizza!  Or, as Mick would argue, Aruba!

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

And because of Dinah we're getting little Felicity and no Delicity and pretty much no OTA because god forbid, Oliver, Felicity and Diggle talk to each other like they used to.

I want them to talk on-screen, not have Diggle say they did it offscreen like they did tonight.

Although story wise I do get why Diggle couldn't confide in Felicity about the shrapnel - if he told her, she'd tell Oliver about it when she found out he'd asked Digg to be Green Arrow and there would be no story, haha. 

[Angel12d]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I want them to talk on-screen, not have Diggle say they did it offscreen like they did tonight.

Although story wise I do get why Diggle couldn't confide in Felicity about the shrapnel - if he told her, she'd tell Oliver about it when she found out he'd asked Digg to be Green Arrow and there would be no story, haha. 

But this is one of my problems. When you have to force characters to behave in a way they wouldn't ordinarily, just to have a story, it's just...off? IDK. It feels forced. 

But yeah. I need them to talk on-screen, too. IDK why they think they have to completely remove OTA scenes. Just give us some every now and then and maybe I won't complain about the new dynamics they're trying to push on us.

[insomniadreams88]

3 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

god forbid, Oliver, Felicity and Diggle talk to each other like they used to.

Yeah. Felicity and Diggle can apparently only talk off-screen. Ugh. I’m so annoyed by that. 

[quarks]

Bad things:

1. Have we actually reached the point where we are holding PRESS CONFERENCES in warehouses now? Seriously, Berlanti? SERIOUSLY?

This show. I swear. Every time I think we've reached a new low on sets, we FIND ANOTHER ONE. I genuinely thought this week's low was going to be the use of the loft set over on Flash, and then, they do this to me.

(That said, I need to correct something I said last week - Oliver's apartment appears to be two separate sets.)

2. You have got to be kidding me, Oliver.

a) As Diggle and Felicity apparently already discussed offscreen, Diggle being the Green Arrow is not going to stop attacks on you, mostly because a number of people already know you are the Green Arrow.  This list includes, but is not limited to, Black Siren, various former League of Assassins people, and former allies who might, like Anatoly just did, turn into enemies. b) Uh, whatever else the city knows, they know the Green Arrow is a white guy, so how exactly is having Diggle suiting up going to work here?  (Also, as others have pointed out, how exactly is Diggle supposed to fit into that suit? I've been watching David Ramsey's arms for awhile, show, so you can't fool me on this one.) c) You just noticed that Diggle had a problem in the field - but then you decide to ask him to be the Green Arrow? d) The Green Arrow needs to shoot arrows. Diggle shoots guns. You have been in this show for five years now and you didn't notice this?  It's even in the name! You're paying less attention to this show than Anatoly, and he at least has the excuse of not being in it as much. And desperately needing to kidnap people for ransom. And most importantly, e) Diggle also has a kid, Oliver. Yes, the kid has another parent, Lyla - but Lyla also works in a dangerous field, risking her life on a daily basis.  So why is it a problem for you, but not for him?

And it's not as if you - and the show - weren't aware of another white guy who knows your identity, is single and childless, and used to wearing a costume. This was the time to call Ragman!

Or Bruce Wayne. Sure, apparently he hasn't left Gotham for a bit, but there's no reason why Mr. Wayne can't stretch his wings a little, and maybe try to shoot arrows instead of Bat-thingies.

And now, Dinah!

Up until this episode, I've liked Dinah - really. After four seasons of Laurel, having a woman come in and be an instantly competent and mostly likable vigilante was a relief.  To the point where I was kinda wondering if this section should be "And now, Dinah!" or "And now, Oliver" especially given Oliver's parenting failures throughout this episode, but if Oliver failed at parenting (hugely) he didn't fail at humaning (as much) so I picked Dinah for now. It might be Oliver next week, depending upon how long this "I'll enjoy my life while Diggle risks his because I apparently can't remember that Diggle has a kid" saga lasts. Hmm. Maybe it should be Oliver. No, I already complained about him in the bad things thread. Back to Dinah, who, to repeat, I've liked up until this point.

And then, tonight.

Number of times Dinah failed as a vigilante: 1) Being absolutely nowhere around when a group of wealthy investors, critical to the city, happened to agree to meet with the mayor and members of the press in a warehouse which, Dinah, come on now. You know this show and warehouses. They are always filled with bad guys and people always get attacked in them. What were you thinking? You weren't. 2) expecting Diggle to save her from a non-superpowered goon, when a) Dinah, you are not only a trained martial artist, but also a metahuman. You should not have needed help here, b) the entire point of your character was that, prior to joining Team Arrow, you took down whole groups on your own, so why are you now expecting assistance from Diggle, especially since c) you knew, going in, that Diggle would have problems firing a gun. This was on you.

I realize that this was all just for PLOT - that is, to set up the scene where Diggle finally admits to Dinah that yes, he needs to talk to Oliver, so that we would all be SURPRISED when the conversation was then Hey, Diggle, so, I need you to be the Green Arrow, but, still.

Number of times Dinah failed as a human: 1) Her attitude when Curtis explained the neurotoxin, which...really, Dinah, the science there wasn't all that difficult (or, I'm guessing, accurate, but this is about Dinah not Arrow's increasingly questionable relationship with science) so the attitude wasn't needed, 2) blaming Diggle for concealing something from Team Arrow, after spending five months concealing something from Team Arrow herself, 3) making Diggle feel guilty about her failures as a vigilante which almost got her killed, 4) despite that, failing to convince Diggle that yes, he really did need to explain things to Oliver before saying, "Sure, I'll try the hood thing," probably because of 5) spending most of the episode being fairly hostile to Diggle when not hitting on him.

(Uh, Arrow - you are aware of how that's coming across, right? I kinda handwaved it last week as well, ok, at least the actors work well together on screen, but, hmm.)

It's just one episode, and I've liked Dinah enough before this that I hope Arrow can course correct - especially since pretty much everyone on this show has had their good and bad episodes. (Except Samantha and that DJ, who only had bad episodes.) Let's hope this was just one off episode. 

[apinknightmare]

8 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

When you have to force characters to behave in a way they wouldn't ordinarily, just to have a story, it's just...off? IDK. It feels forced. 

I don't expect anything different at this point - they've been doing it for years. 

[Angel12d]

Just now, apinknightmare said:

I don't expect anything different at this point - they've been doing it for years. 

Good point. Sigh. 

[quarks]

1 hour ago, statsgirl said:

What does "Tribute" refer to?  Usually I can get what the title of the episode means.

 

I think it was a reference to Anatoly demanding payment - aka, tribute/protection money - so that Oliver could avoid a major hostage/business crisis.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, apinknightmare said:

It makes me irrationally angry that the FBI swooped in and announced that they were investigating Oliver without even verifying that the photo of him was real? GOD, SHOW. WHY DO YOU DO THIS.

There is so much about her dumb investigation that makes me angry. Star has the murder rate of Caracas and the random violence and corruption of Kabul. The last thing the FBI would be fixated on is whether the mayor is spending his spare time being a vigilante instead of why it just seems like a typical thing to have the police department gutted because of corruption and then to have the new recruits murdered en masse. Oliver is the least of the FBI's concerns.

Officials seem to be regularly murdered. A previous ADA was a vigilante who now has a statue venerating her. The next one was a serial killing psychopath. Star has a huge organized crime problem. Shouldn't the FBI a little bit concerned that foreigners are being gunned down in broad daylight? In reality, the FBI and DoJ should be all over the city trying to figure out what's happening there. It's only in reviewing records, videos, and later interviews that the FBI should start to be curious about Oliver. I don't care that Anatoly outted him. The FBI should put that on the back burner as they try to fix the larger crime and corruption problems in the city. I would much rather they turn their sights to Oliver later. 

[popgoesculture]

This episode felt like such a retread. Someone keeping secrets despite criticizing others for doing the same thing (and being criticized by someone who did the same thing once before)... even Oliver and Diggle's scene at the end seemed super familiar?? Did this happen before? Digg keeping a secret when Oliver wanted to ask him something important?

Overall, just a boring episode that tried far too obviously to make up for previous plot loopholes -- Curtis, Felicity, and the mysterious job life of Team Arrow -- and also focus on interactions that don't interest me much. I don't care about William (and the kid is not a great actor. There are wonderful child actors out there, show. Why did you choose this kid?), and I definitely don't care about Dinah and her weird fledgling friendship with Diggle who denies them even being friends! Like go to his actual friend, Felicity, and get HER to talk to him. 

Also has anyone noticed that EBR has sounded really off in this ep and the last? I thought it was a fluke in the premiere, but it was even more noticeable this ep. Her voice seems higher than usual, but also more mumbled at times. I can't tell if it's bad sound mixing or she's not enunciating clearly or what. 

I will say the whole "Oliver might be the Green Arrow" thing coupled with the talks with William just made me miss Moira. They should never have killed her or written Thea and Walter off. There was so much more tension and momentum to the show when there was that family element suspicious of his comings and goings, but also calling him on it -- Oliver being mayor doesn't replace it. I miss them and what the show used to be. Even them knowing about Oliver being GA would have been more nuanced. Instead, we get Mayoral shenanigans where once again, the police department is under attack for the 9000th time. Why would anyone want to be part of the Starling City PD? 

Edited October 20, 2017 by popgoesculture

[Delphi]

ugh,  live blogging without reading but this new opening if it is foreshadowing,  I might be out.   I like ensemble but I didn't sign up for MASKS!

[statsgirl]

39 minutes ago, quarks said:

I think it was a reference to Anatoly demanding payment - aka, tribute/protection money - so that Oliver could avoid a major hostage/business crisis.

That's as good an explanation as any I guess.  It was more blackmail than tribute to an overload but frankly that's one of the least of the episode's problems.

[Trisha]

7 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

Also has anyone noticed that EBR has sounded really off in this ep and the last? I thought it was a fluke in the premiere, but it was even more noticeable this ep. Her voice seems higher than usual, but also more mumbled at times. I can't tell if it's bad sound mixing or she's not enunciating clearly or what. 

So mumbled! It's like she's speaking really low and without much inflection this season. I wonder if she had a cold or something when shooting the first two eps?

[tennisgurl]

I have no idea why they insisted on sticking Dig with Dinah and Felicity with Curtis the whole episode. And I still have no clue why Curtis is such a big part of the show now. Everything he does can be done better by better characters. All he seems to do in the field is throw his little balls around and look silly in that dumb face paint. 

That being said, I didn't hate the episode or anything. It was just meh, which is too bad, because the show got really good for awhile in the tail end of last season, but now all the momentum seems to have died out. 

[quarks]

10 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

I can't tell if it's bad sound mixing or she's not enunciating clearly or what. 

The first two episodes have had noticeable sound and ADR problems. I think something may be wrong with their recording equipment - they've talked previously about how they try to avoid using ADR, and they really only had one short scene that even required it, and yet.

On another note, forgot one more thing about Dinah failing as a human: making her discovery of Diggle's injury more about its effects on her and her ability to trust him in the field instead of HEY, MY TEAMMATE IS ENOUGH PAIN HERE TO REQUIRE REGULAR PAIN PILLS, although on the other hand given that this doctor was just casually handing out large green bottles of neurotoxin stuff (neurotoxin stuff, right?) she could presumably be assuming that this doctor also just tosses out pain medication like candy.

[Hiveminder]

34 minutes ago, popgoesculture said:

This episode felt like such a retread. Someone keeping secrets despite criticizing others for doing the same thing (and being criticized by someone who did the same thing once before)... even Oliver and Diggle's scene at the end seemed super familiar?? Did this happen before? Digg keeping a secret when Oliver wanted to ask him something important?

Maybe because this is the dumbest cliche to ever dumb? Person A has an important announcement/confession/etc., but is all, “You go first”. Then Person B says something that makes Person A not admit their secret/confess their love/whatever.  Cue drama, angst, and dumbfuckery. Usually seen as part of a romance plot, but can be adjusted for other situations. 

[LeighAn]

18 minutes ago, quarks said:

The first two episodes have had noticeable sound and ADR problems. I think something may be wrong with their recording equipment - they've talked previously about how they try to avoid using ADR, and they really only had one short scene that even required it, and yet.

On another note, forgot one more thing about Dinah failing as a human: making her discovery of Diggle's injury more about its effects on her and her ability to trust him in the field instead of HEY, MY TEAMMATE IS ENOUGH PAIN HERE TO REQUIRE REGULAR PAIN PILLS, although on the other hand given that this doctor was just casually handing out large green bottles of neurotoxin stuff (neurotoxin stuff, right?) she could presumably be assuming that this doctor also just tosses out pain medication like candy.

She really is the Black Canary. That's exactly like how Laurel made Sara trying to kill Thea and putting her in the hospital cause she was crazy after being risen from the dead by Laurel and kept chained up in a basement secretly before going on a homicidal rampage all about Laurels hurt feelings that Oliver doesn't think she's the bestest and include her in things. 

 

Dinah is doing Laurels legacy proud.

[scarynikki12]

1 hour ago, quarks said:

4. And speaking of the FBI, didn't the feds say just last year that Green Arrow is an awesome person because he helps fight off evil aliens, or did Team Legends accidentally change this too?

The Legends broke time but they didn't pull a Barry.  And a lot of what they broke has already been fixed and they and the Time Bureau are working on the rest. 

The story was kind of dull but I did have generally positive feelings about the episode and I realized it was due to the direction when reading your post.  Dump that Bam guy, show, I don't care how much you all like him.

[Racj82]

Why is supposed to be an issue if he becomes arrow or doesn't pass it by Lyla? He already risks his life everyday? Who cares? By that I mean I don't. Diggle already made his choice to still be a hero with a child at home. That has already been dealt with. Him stepping up with this condition is the actual issue. But, Diggle gets to run shit. I'm down.

[Midnight Lullaby]

2 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I used to like Dinah alright, but now she just bugs me. She has actually made me miss Laurel. Laurel!!!

Maybe it's because they give her screentime. When Laurel was on the team she was just there which is my preference if they have to keep on the show characters that add nothing.

[WindofChange]

Someone cleverly pointed out that the logos for Oliver, Diggle, Felicity actually spell OTA which I thought was amazing!

[JamieLynn832002]

2 minutes ago, WindofChange said:

Someone cleverly pointed out that the logos for Oliver, Diggle, Felicity actually spell OTA which I thought was amazing!

Okay, I didn't really pay attention to the new title card but that is awesome.

[Angel12d]

Now that's awesome! I didn't even notice that. 

[LeighAn]

That is so cool that I hope it was intentional. 

[insomniadreams88]

I think there’s a difference between Diggle being out there as GA and as Spartan in terms of risk. GA is sort of the face of the team, the focus. 

After all, even though they acknowledge the whole team can be outed, the focus is on GA right now. 

So the same can be said for GA in general - with all aspects: in the field, with criminals, with law enforcement, risks, etc. - compared to Spartan. 

[Jediknight]

2 hours ago, quarks said:

4. Yay, Oliver is teaching his kid violence! I probably shouldn't approve of this, but I do.  Largely because it confirms my earlier opinion that Oliver is a very bad parent. Even the kid is like WHOA.  Totally with you, kid!

I don't think it makes him a very bad parent.  He's teaching William how to defend himself.  He already knows that William got jumped, was outnumbered and they were bigger than him, so he's showing William what to do if you can't get away.

[johntfs]

5 hours ago, tennisgurl said:

I still love Anatoly. So much. Its sad that he is officially a bad guy now, but I am always happy to have him around. 

I love that even as a bad guy, he can't help but mentor Oliver a little bit.  Like that speech about what a person who really had no honor would do and how vulnerable Oliver and William would be to someone like that.  And then just calling bullshit on Oliver's threats and walking away like a boss.

[LeighAn]

[johntfs]

For my part I don't think the kid playing William is doing a bad job.  He's playing William as confused and withdrawn, which fits well with what's happened to him.  That said, it's clear that the smartest, sanest, best thing that Oliver could do for William for at least the short terms is to put him with his grandparents to at least let him get some stability.  In some ways Rene is being a better father than Oliver because he thinks of his kid's welfare first and his own desire to be in his kid's life second.  Except that Oliver meddled with that, too.

[JamieLynn832002]

I still don't think Jack Moore is great but I do think he's getting better now that William isn't perpetually acting like a five year old and I actually liked the last Oliver/William scene.

[Morrigan2575]

4 hours ago, Jediknight said:

I don't think it makes him a very bad parent.  He's teaching William how to defend himself.  He already knows that William got jumped, was outnumbered and they were bigger than him, so he's showing William what to do if you can't get away.

Except he wasn't teaching William how to defend himself. He very specifically tells William to attack. His advice is that when the bully's are picking on him (not beating him), find the biggest bully and punch him in the nose. That makes William the aggressor and, gets him into so much trouble at school.

It was just dumb parenting, teaching a kid that violence is the first answer.

[strikera0]

Wait, that ending scene with Diggle and Oliver was supposed to be one of the most shocking cliffhangers of all time? Damn, I'm really starting to think some of these critics are bought. 

[Velocity23]

6 minutes ago, strikera0 said:

Wait, that ending scene with Diggle and Oliver was supposed to be one of the most shocking cliffhangers of all time? Damn, I'm really starting to think some of these critics are bought. 

They probably have talking points. The same happened for the preview for the Flash episode 4x02. They always overhype things. 

[cambridgeguy]

Oliver should call up Bruce Wayne and get some parenting tips.

Oliver - I'm having trouble connecting with my son.  What should I do?

Bruce - He's a teenager, right?  They make awesome sidekicks when you're out fighting crime.

[bijoux]

I acctually liked the episode fine. My biggest complaint is that the characters were mostly stuck in the same pairings the whole time. I think the directing influenced this a lot, the scenes transitioned logically in a way that didn't feel abrupt, there were some truly excellent shots - like Lance and Rene with Watson, I really liked that one - and the transitions between the different fighters when they were rescuing the Markovians really added energy to a process we've seen a thousand times over.

The scene with Rene and Lance with Watson was one of my favorites, and I think this is the best I've liked Rene since he showed up. The guys were just so uncomfortable and Lance's reactions to Rene's foot in the mouth disease were precious. Plus, I really like both the actress and the character of Watson so far. Kind of feels like they're doing Susan Williams again, only right. 

7 hours ago, popgoesculture said:

Also has anyone noticed that EBR has sounded really off in this ep and the last? I thought it was a fluke in the premiere, but it was even more noticeable this ep. Her voice seems higher than usual, but also more mumbled at times. I can't tell if it's bad sound mixing or she's not enunciating clearly or what. 

Sounded like a cold to me. 

3 hours ago, LeighAn said:

 Cute. I also didn't mind either William or the actor that much. He's no master thespian, but he had some nice moments like the one above. What the ef, dude? Hee. And I have to admit, I laughed out loud at Oliver's advice. And I'm a teacher. 

[apinknightmare]

4 minutes ago, bijoux said:

 Cute. I also didn't mind either William or the actor that much. He's no master thespian, but he had some nice moments like the one above. What the ef, dude? Hee. And I have to admit, I laughed out loud at Oliver's advice. And I'm a teacher. 

Same. I thought I would really hate it, but...even though ultimately I think bringing a kid onto the show is a huge mistake, I haven't minded the actual kid these past two episodes. 

[Trisha]

I thought this was a pretty good set-up episode. Though I can't see myself wanting to rewatch it anytime soon, it teed up a lot of things that piqued my interest: Dig as the GA, Felicity starting a business, Anatoly being a more nuanced villain then the usual big bads with unclear motivations, the FBI investigation (which I think I'm sold on only because of the actress' performance). The direction was remarkably better than last week. (Though I laughed/loved that there was a transition in the big fight scene that started on Oliver's butt.) There were even a couple of moments when I thought the kid actor did a good job!

But then there's the Dinah of it all. Her angry scowl expression is so over the top, and she used it on Dig repeatedly this ep. (It's her version of arms crossed; why does the BC always seem to have an annoying physical tic?) It's probably not a good sign that the AV Club's review of this ep makes a point of how Juliana Harkavy is playing the character as annoyingly petulant. I'm guessing she'll have a similar arc to Rene last year - she'll be omnipresent and irritating for the first half, and then she'll slowly start to be less grating. Keep it.

Edited October 20, 2017 by Trisha

[apinknightmare]

Is there a gif of my new BFF William/Myson/Buddy punching the hell out of his Flash backpack? I need it for...reasons.

[Hiveminder]

6 hours ago, Racj82 said:

Why is supposed to be an issue if he becomes arrow or doesn't pass it by Lyla? He already risks his life everyday? Who cares? By that I mean I don't. Diggle already made his choice to still be a hero with a child at home. That has already been dealt with. Him stepping up with this condition is the actual issue. But, Diggle gets to run shit. I'm down.

As Spartan, he’s in a support role. He’s risking his life, yeah, but he’s not a special target. Everyone’s gunning for the GA. He’s right up front, in the spotlight. 

4 hours ago, johntfs said:

I love that even as a bad guy, he can't help but mentor Oliver a little bit.  Like that speech about what a person who really had no honor would do and how vulnerable Oliver and William would be to someone like that.  And then just calling bullshit on Oliver's threats and walking away like a boss.

Anatoly can keep his hypocritical speech about ‘honor’. He thinks honor is not going after someone’s kid? That’s the bare minimum standard for not being a total irredeemable psycho. 

[Midnight Lullaby]

I think it might be a mafia thing..I'm not sure but I think I read/heard it elsewhere..

Discussing it with Lyla is the basis of how a marriage works..I'm thinking either they want to create some drama from that or the actress was unavailable.

[apinknightmare]

7 minutes ago, Hiveminder said:

As Spartan, he’s in a support role. He’s risking his life, yeah, but he’s not a special target. Everyone’s gunning for the GA. He’s right up front, in the spotlight. 

Yeah, I'd say that now that the FBI is gunning for the Green Arrow, running the decision by his wife would be the considerate thing to do.

[Hiveminder]

1 minute ago, Midnight Lullaby said:

I think it might be a mafia thing..I'm not sure but I think I read/heard it elsewhere..

Discussing it with Lyla is the basis of how a marriage works..I'm thinking either they want to create some drama from that or the actress was unavailable.

Ah, mafia honor. What a farce. 

[benteen]

I thought this episode was a lot better than last week.  Still don't know what this season is about but the end with Diggle was quite interesting.

I'm glad the show remembered that Oliver had been accused on being the Green Arrow before.  Accept that they forgot that he had been accused of being the Arrow TWICE before.  Interesting that they actually name-dropped Bruce Wayne.  Considering Arrow has stolen a lot from Batman, I was surprised.

Diggle concealing this is inexcusable and so is Dinah not saying anything.

William is NOT a good addition to this show.  Nothing against the actor but the character is a show wrecker.

Loved the return of Anatoly, though Oliver letting him go and actually thinking he had a point when he claimed to still be a good man was ridiculous.

[Soulfire]

59 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Is there a gif of my new BFF William/Myson/Buddy punching the hell out of his Flash backpack? I need it for...reasons.

 

[way2interested]

2 minutes ago, benteen said:

Loved the return of Anatoly, though Oliver letting him go and actually thinking he had a point when he claimed to still be a good man was ridiculous.

This was what was happening while I was watching with my sister (who isn't privy to spoilers):

Sister: Shoot him!!! Shoot him!!!

Anatoly: Don't bluff. We both know you won't kill me.

Sister: HE DOESN'T HAVE TO, JUST SHOOT HIM IN THE LEG.

*Anatoly walks off*

Sister: Great, I know what the midseason plot is.

[apinknightmare]

3 minutes ago, Soulfire said:

 

My son! That's my boy!

(Thank you)

[Soulfire]

Belatedly, some GIFs...

 

 

 

 

 

 

  

Edited October 20, 2017 by Soulfire

[Racj82]

58 minutes ago, apinknightmare said:

Yeah, I'd say that now that the FBI is gunning for the Green Arrow, running the decision by his wife would be the considerate thing to do.

Blah. I do not care and it won't last. It's a TV Arc. Nothing permanent. There all in danger all the time. Lyla does plenty of things without passing it by Diggle as we've already seen. I don't care. Just curious to see how Oliver will end up back in the saddle and how Diggle does as lead.

[ohjoy]

So I've decided to replace every time Oliver calls William "Buddy" (which grates on my nerves so bad) with "Myson" (pronounced like bison) -- because it amuses me and makes the scenes more tolerable (because let's face it, Myson is a better nickname than Buddy, and Oliver was very comfortable calling him Myson all the time before so I don't know why he changed it anyway).

(Of all the complaints I have on the episode, it's one I can actually do something about, so I'm going with it.)