S07.E07: Valerie Solanas Died for Your Sins: Scumbag

[DangerousMinds]

I feel about Evan Peters the way some feel about Sarah Paulson. I wish he would sit out a season.

I don't love the rewriting of history. Solanas shot Andy Warhol, but he recovered. She didn't kill him.

[kissedbyarose]

All these murders yet the animal on Beverly Hope’s head lives on.

 

 

 

 

That wig is an abomination.

[Florinaldo]

As soon as Warhol appeared I recognized EP and it kept distracting me; he had the mannerisms, but his performance was very one-dimensional and more of a stunt than anything. Not quite as bad as his turn in Hotel, but in direct competition with it for the position of his worst one.

Speaking of stunt casting, Valerie Solanas. According to what I read about her in the Warhol biography (Holy Terror) that I read a few years ago she was indeed a very annoying self-centered person and rubbed most people the wrong way. But LD played her very one-note, which means that the performance itself became annoying quite quickly.

 

11 hours ago, skotnikov said:

But, honestly, the manner Murphy has ridiculed Solanas and feminism was not nice.    

I had a go at the SCUM Manifesto when I was reading the Warhol biography and believe me, RM did not ridicule it or her author at all; it is so rambling and incoherent that one is very tempted to believe it was intended as a parody as some people have suggested, but VS herself vehemently denied this. Too bad for her because it would have been a convenient out for how ridiculous it is.

I do not think VS was presented as a representative of feminism as a whole, but more as what she really was, a kook. The show did take some liberty with history because as I recall, her "Society" never really had more than one member, i.e. its founder, despite the readings of her manifesto that she gave at the Chelsea Hotel. But it was useful as a narrative parallel with Kai's movement to depict SCUM the way they did. It also underscored how Kai's scheme is still similarly rather rinky-dink as an attempt to take over the world.

 

3 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I don't love the rewriting of history. Solanas shot Andy Warhol, but he recovered. She didn't kill him.

True, and he had health problems for the rest of his life as a consequence, but did the show really mention that he was killed in the shooting? He did die before VS, so his appearance to her could be interpreted either as supernatural or as a by-product of her many delusions and her extreme psychological deterioration.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Florinaldo

[Fable]

Pure speculation here, but I wonder if maybe the ladies are playing Kai instead of the other way around.  

[Dobian]

Valerie Solanas, the most annoying and obnoxious character in tv history.  And this was the most annoying and obnoxious episode in AHS history, it was a chore to get through it.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Dobian

[ShadowHunter]

2 hours ago, Fable said:

Pure speculation here, but I wonder if maybe the ladies are playing Kai instead of the other way around.  

That is possible. Frances could be playing him as well. As a said in a previous post we don't really have any good guys this season. So they could all die in the end or go to jail.

I wish I liked Ally better still not really rooting for her.

[Kaiju Ballet]

I was also surprised by the "twist" at the end, and hope that Kai is being played. But since Kai was in it all along, I wonder what it means that he's caught Winter flat out lying to him about the SCUM pamphlet he found in her room? I'm kind of rooting for her, or at least for her not to have a grisly fate.

I had forgotten that Lena Dunham was going to appear in AHS, so it was pretty cool to first get the character revealed as Valerie Solanas and then recognize LD in the role. I thought she did a good job, but the MVP was definitely EP as Andy Warhol. The way he moved, the speech patterns, and hair/makeup/styling--awesome!

[Chaos Theory]

9 hours ago, Dobian said:

Valerie Solanas, the most annoying and obnoxious character in tv history.  And this was the most annoying and obnoxious episode in AHS history, it was a chore to get through it.

I tried to watch I Shot Andy Warhol and  couldn’t get through it.  I Found BOTH of them annoying and I actually like watching shows with unlikeable characters.  Add to it I just don’t like Lena Dunham and I  am not sure exactly why.    

I do get what the episode what trying to say.  Men (more to the point white men) will always cut ties with women when they get an ounce of power and even thought gay men are a threatened class they are still men and if anything they need women less then straight men do so women are in an even more precarious position with them.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[luna1122]

13 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I feel about Evan Peters the way some feel about Sarah Paulson. I wish he would sit out a season.

I don't love the rewriting of history. Solanas shot Andy Warhol, but he recovered. She didn't kill him.

Evan is always the top reason I watch. This episode never stated that Valerie killed Andy. We just saw the shooting, not the aftermath.

[sarahlee]

13 hours ago, DangerousMinds said:

I feel about Evan Peters the way some feel about Sarah Paulson. I wish he would sit out a season.

I don't love the rewriting of history. Solanas shot Andy Warhol, but he recovered. She didn't kill him.

They didn't say she killed him. They said she shot him. Andy Warhol died in the late 80's as I recall. (too lazy to look it up)

[NaughtyKitty]

I am not a Lena hater or lover, but she is good at playing that type of annoying neurotic angry clueless woman.  She did it well, but I am glad it was a one episode arc. (But I would take a whole season of Lena Dunham before just one scene of Gabby Sidibe – ugh)

 

Who played young Francis?  There really was a resemblance and she was quite pretty.

Thrilled to see Jamie Brewer and Dot Marie Jones.  I really expected that Dennis O’Hare would pop up in this episode.  I can’t wait to see what type of character he will play!

 

Is there any significance to the fact that Winter’s hair is slowly going from grey to blonde?

 

As an aside – I had an event last week at the Cicada Club, which is what they used as the hotel lobby in AHS-Hotel.  It was so beautiful and so fun to be there!  No one I was with had watched it, so I was the goofy star/room-struck one.  Go to Yelp and check out pictures. (Cicada Restaurant on Olive St in LA)

[valandsend]

The SCUM meetings kept reminding me of John Waters movies from the 1970s. Lena Dunham's diatribes sounded a lot like something from Divine (even down to the frequent use of "turd") and I was cracking up.

[Dobian]

3 hours ago, luna1122 said:

Evan is always the top reason I watch. This episode never stated that Valerie killed Andy. We just saw the shooting, not the aftermath.

I would have to rewind and watch some scenes again, but it caught my attention what sounded like her or one of them saying that she "killed" Andy Warhol.

[Stringey]

23 hours ago, sugarbaker design said:

I figure he'll use the women to kill off the male members of the insane clown posse first (Chaz Bono, Det Samuels) and then each other.

Kia is indeed the devil. Not literally but you get what I mean. I don't know if I believe his backstory. We don't know everything just from that backstory clip of him and his parents but it played out like he was kind of normal. By normal I am mean not a manipulative psychopath. Just like I said I think ivy had criminal tendencies before this cult thing I also think that Kai must have been a little crazy to begin with. I don't think he went from someone who was just a little lost to the Kai we now see just because he hated his dad and wanted to prove he was somebody to his mom. I dont know for sure I guess if I am right they will reveal it at some point. If not then I guess we assume they showed us the true story of what happened to his parents.

 

54 minutes ago, Dobian said:

I would have to rewind and watch some scenes again, but it caught my attention what sounded like her or one of them saying that she "killed" Andy Warhol.

Did evan peters lose little weight to play the Andy scenes. In those scenes he looked a little leaner. Evan has one of those bodies that is not exactly muscular but kind of filled out I guess. I mean he is not a bean pole. I thought he looked skinnier in the Andy scenes. No idea what Andy Warhol looked like and if he was a lean looking  guy or not but i would guess he was just by how evan looked in the scenes

[LoneHaranguer]

21 hours ago, iMonrey said:

I don't watch Girls and I really have never seen Lena Dunham in anything, so I have no preconceived notions about her and no prior opinion of her. To me, this episode felt like a vanity piece for a guest star.

Girls is/was a vanity piece for her, so it wasn't a surprise that this episode had the same feel. I'm glad they kept down the profanity and didn't let her get naked (which could have fit in her opening scene in the car).

[valandsend]

14 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

Girls is/was a vanity piece for her, so it wasn't a surprise that this episode had the same feel. I'm glad they kept down the profanity and didn't let her get naked (which could have fit in her opening scene in the car).

I've only watched the pilot of Girls, and coincidentally or not, she took the same sexual position.

[jnymph]

I'm in the minority.  I thought LD was great in the role; felt she was purposely obnoxious and she rocked it.

[Captanne]

I've never seen Lena Dunham perform before and I thought the actress was terrific.  I also thought Evan Peters did an admirable job (the show did not say he was killed by her shots, at all) as Andy Warhol.  The best Andy Warhol, of course, was done by David Bowie in the film "Basquiat."  Hands down.

I enjoyed this episode but, I have to say, I don't like the actress playing Beverly Hope much -- I didn't like her in "Roanoke" either.  There's something about the set of her eyes -- which actually reminds me of the First Lady's eyes.  There is some sort of cat angle that bugs me.  I'm sure it's a personal thing and not universal at all.

[luna1122]

Honestly, I don't dig Adina Porter that much either. I think she's a pretty good actress, and my BFF knew her from True Blood and loves her, but she bugs me. I get what you're saying about her eyes, and Melania's...there is something off putting about them to me, as well. (Not catlike, tho...cuz I love anything catlike). They're dead-eyed.

Edited October 19, 2017 by luna1122

[LoneHaranguer]

46 minutes ago, jnymph said:

I'm in the minority.  I thought LD was great in the role; felt she was purposely obnoxious and she rocked it.

True, but the writers seemed to be wanting to portray a progression in the character's insanity, and LD was a bit one-note in that respect, making Val seem just as nuts when she was forming the group as at the end.

[vb68]

I thought Lena was terrible. She was stiff and some of her line readings, especially in the beginning, were awkward. I kinda felt watching her that it was almost like she was doing a SNL sketch. And I'm a huge SNL fan.  But this didn't work for me.

[jnymph]

15 minutes ago, vb68 said:

I thought Lena was terrible. She was stiff and some of her line readings, especially in the beginning, were awkward. I kinda felt watching her that it was almost like she was doing a SNL sketch. And I'm a huge SNL fan.  But this didn't work for me.

What's weird is that I agree with you that it seemed like an SNL sketch.  But for me;  it worked. 

 

35 minutes ago, LoneHaranguer said:

True, but the writers seemed to be wanting to portray a progression in the character's insanity, and LD was a bit one-note in that respect, making Val seem just as nuts when she was forming the group as at the end.

Again, I agree and again, it oddly worked for me.   LD had me laughing at her obnoxious character.   I dunno, I was just digging it.

[peacheslatour]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:56 AM, TattleTeeny said:

A while back, I'd read a rumor that Charles Manson and another notorious culty type would show up in the season, and I looked forward to it. But then once the season started, it didn't seem like it would fit in all that well with so much else going on. I'm happy to see that it could go that way after all.

Oh, if they could get Finn Whittrock to play Manson I'd start watching again.

[Captanne]

Perhaps if I'd seen Dunham in other performances I would know she's capable of better and be disappointed with her job on Cult?  I thought she was fine.

The ending of the episode didn't surprise me much but what ~did~ startle me was Ivy's willingness to do what she did to Harrison.  She not only did it hands on but was the one to get frustrated and start the entire gorey process.  I would not have expected that of her character.  

 

ETA:  Also meant to add -- I really liked Peters' version of Warhol (even though I am thoroughly spoiled by David Bowie's).  It was the prosthetic makeup that bothered me.  They made Warhol's bad complexion distracting.  (For me, at least.)

Edited October 19, 2017 by Captanne

[TattleTeeny]

48 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Oh, if they could get Finn Whittrock to play Manson I'd start watching again.

I think the thing I read said Evan was playing all of them (we're on a first-name basis now, you know). I'm intrigued.

[peacheslatour]

Just now, TattleTeeny said:

I think the thing I read said Evan was playing all of them (we're on a first-name basis now, you know). I'm intrigued.

I could see that. He can play anybody. What an amazing actor.

[ShadowHunter]

4 minutes ago, TattleTeeny said:

I think the thing I read said Evan was playing all of them (we're on a first-name basis now, you know). I'm intrigued.

Its 100% Evan. Ryan confirmed it a few months back. 

The reason he is playing all of them was because Ryan liked how he played Warhol. It was not the original plan but they changed it. 

[Dobian]

2 hours ago, jnymph said:

What's weird is that I agree with you that it seemed like an SNL sketch.  But for me;  it worked. 

She did seem to have a Rachel Dratch vibe going.  I kept waiting for the camera to zoom in on her face after every key line for a Debbie Downer-type mug shot.

[Stringey]

3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Its 100% Evan. Ryan confirmed it a few months back. 

The reason he is playing all of them was because Ryan liked how he played Warhol. It was not the original plan but they changed it. 

Is evan going to be portraying Manson this season??? If so then yaaaaaaaaay. 

[AmandaPanda]

Please remember to keep spoilers behind a spoiler tag, for those who do not wish to read them. 

[ShadowHunter]

5 hours ago, Dobian said:

She did seem to have a Rachel Dratch vibe going.  I kept waiting for the camera to zoom in on her face after every key line for a Debbie Downer-type mug shot.

That would have been better.

[TattleTeeny]

6 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

Its 100% Evan. Ryan confirmed it a few months back. 

The reason he is playing all of them was because Ryan liked how he played Warhol. It was not the original plan but they changed it. 

I think It's a pretty cool idea to have him do it all, not just because he's a good actor but because there's something satisfyingly nice and neat about it that I can't explain because I am so tired!

[Captanne]

Having Peters play all the characters gives it a kind of surreal, dreamy aspect to me.  I like it a lot.  (Part of that faith is because I know he's capable of doing it; has done things like it in the past on AHS; and I trust Murphy on that count.  It's completely in genre.)

[buttercupia]

in retrospect, with the reveal at the end of the episode, having evan play warhol was a clue that the frances conroy character was an unreliable narrator and in league with kai. sort of genius if you ask me.

[Pixel]

19 hours ago, jnymph said:

I'm in the minority.  I thought LD was great in the role; felt she was purposely obnoxious and she rocked it.

If that was the intent then, yes, she did indeed nail it. I have never really watched her in anything, and I didn't jump on the bandwagon that calls her a molester because of her stories about her little sister that she wrote about in her book.  I wanted to whack Valerie Solanas upside the head for her stupid histrionics and ideas and if I was supposed to hate her, then Lena did her job.

[TattleTeeny]

2 hours ago, Captanne said:

Having Peters play all the characters gives it a kind of surreal, dreamy aspect to me.  I like it a lot.  (Part of that faith is because I know he's capable of doing it; has done things like it in the past on AHS; and I trust Murphy on that count.  It's completely in genre.)

And that sweet little pretty face! (You know, in case you like your heinous-crime committers to have that.)

Edited October 20, 2017 by TattleTeeny

[ShadowHunter]

On ‎10‎/‎18‎/‎2017 at 7:03 PM, DangerousMinds said:

I feel about Evan Peters the way some feel about Sarah Paulson. I wish he would sit out a season.

I don't love the rewriting of history. Solanas shot Andy Warhol, but he recovered. She didn't kill him.

To me Evan set out last season. He was a guest star.  Sarah I agree though. She is already confirmed for Season 8. I hope she has a small role but that wont happen.

I don't always love Reddit but in regards to Sarah they were right we are overexposed to her. 

[ZoloftBlob]

Eh this episode is losing me. Evan Peters was great as Andy... I don't have any real feelings for Lena Dunham the person and I didn't find anything wrong with her performance. It's just... there's so many problems....

They're acting like this is all happening in a small city in the 1950s - all while dropping cool millennial references like getting tweeted by someone famous. I brought some of this up in the last episode discussion but it bears repeating. That Harrison and Meadow filmed the beat down on Kai and were interviewed on camera about it is a problem, when it's coupled with Harrison being the man with the dead boss, Harrison and Meadow immediately moving into the murdered city councilman's house, Harrison and Meadow working for the guy who is now running for city council, Harrison giving a gun to the "lesbian George Zimmerman" and now Meadow shooting Kai and others at the rally for Kai that Harrison also intended? That's suspicious as fuck. Add in the murdered opponent? National media would be totally in there.

Dressing your new political allies who all are white clean cut young men in matching colored shirts would draw media attention. 

While I haven't been terribly impressed with Kai's leadership, I actually think, based on prior cleverness, that he's not actually so stupid as to piss off Beverly, one of the followers who actually has some power as a news reporter, and who is smart enough (normally, we'll talk about that too) to see how he's ham-handedly and openly cutting out all the women.

So then we have Crazy Old Bitch telling her tale about actual historical figures and... Winter, Ivy and Beverly all have smart phones and all know what the internet is and it's very easy to find info on actual historical figures like Valerie Solanas and the Zodiac Killer. Valerie was schizophrenic, and she wasn't known for her leadership abilities. She also would have been in NYC for you know, shooting Andy Warhol and the subsequent trial and three year jail sentence. Oh, and as amusing as a good old fashioned stab party is, the Zodiac Killer tended to use a gun - several couples were shot, and while some stabbing occurring in some of the murders, the Zodiac Killer was mostly a shooter. This might seem like minor stuff but we're talking about actual victims of actual crimes here. Granted, I may have taken too much interest in murder as an adolescent but these are things easily found out. If the women are just following along without bothering to minimally fact check... that just too willfully dumb. And if the writers are just merrily making shit up, then I hope they understand that the Zodiac Killer murdered actual people who have family that is likely still alive. 

The factual inaccuracy took me out of the story, and the straight up gullibility of the women coupled with the sudden sausage fest of the blue shirts worries me. And I am finding it hard to believe that people aren't questioning the string of deaths in any real sense.

[ShadowHunter]

14 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Eh this episode is losing me. Evan Peters was great as Andy... I don't have any real feelings for Lena Dunham the person and I didn't find anything wrong with her performance. It's just... there's so many problems....

They're acting like this is all happening in a small city in the 1950s - all while dropping cool millennial references like getting tweeted by someone famous. I brought some of this up in the last episode discussion but it bears repeating. That Harrison and Meadow filmed the beat down on Kai and were interviewed on camera about it is a problem, when it's coupled with Harrison being the man with the dead boss, Harrison and Meadow immediately moving into the murdered city councilman's house, Harrison and Meadow working for the guy who is now running for city council, Harrison giving a gun to the "lesbian George Zimmerman" and now Meadow shooting Kai and others at the rally for Kai that Harrison also intended? That's suspicious as fuck. Add in the murdered opponent? National media would be totally in there.

Dressing your new political allies who all are white clean cut young men in matching colored shirts would draw media attention. 

While I haven't been terribly impressed with Kai's leadership, I actually think, based on prior cleverness, that he's not actually so stupid as to piss off Beverly, one of the followers who actually has some power as a news reporter, and who is smart enough (normally, we'll talk about that too) to see how he's ham-handedly and openly cutting out all the women.

So then we have Crazy Old Bitch telling her tale about actual historical figures and... Winter, Ivy and Beverly all have smart phones and all know what the internet is and it's very easy to find info on actual historical figures like Valerie Solanas and the Zodiac Killer. Valerie was schizophrenic, and she wasn't known for her leadership abilities. She also would have been in NYC for you know, shooting Andy Warhol and the subsequent trial and three year jail sentence. Oh, and as amusing as a good old fashioned stab party is, the Zodiac Killer tended to use a gun - several couples were shot, and while some stabbing occurring in some of the murders, the Zodiac Killer was mostly a shooter. This might seem like minor stuff but we're talking about actual victims of actual crimes here. Granted, I may have taken too much interest in murder as an adolescent but these are things easily found out. If the women are just following along without bothering to minimally fact check... that just too willfully dumb. And if the writers are just merrily making shit up, then I hope they understand that the Zodiac Killer murdered actual people who have family that is likely still alive. 

The factual inaccuracy took me out of the story, and the straight up gullibility of the women coupled with the sudden sausage fest of the blue shirts worries me. And I am finding it hard to believe that people aren't questioning the string of deaths in any real sense.

The making up stuff has been going on with this show for a long time now though. They said in Season 5 that the Zodiac Killer was actually a student of James Patrick March. Along with other real killers as well.

I understand what you are saying but Ryan always twists things to fit the narrative. Besides the story could have been made up to futher screw with the girls and see what they would do. 

I would actually like to know how Frances met up with Kai. I think her name was Bebe she could be playing him. I am not 100% sure we should believe any story some of the characters tell.

Edited October 21, 2017 by ShadowHunter

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

The making up stuff has been going on with this show for a long time now though. They said in Season 5 that the Zodiac Killer was actually a student of James Patrick March. Along with other real killers as well.

Yup, I am aware that the show makes things up. And I did notice the silly serial killer parties in Hotel but since they were mostly silly and centered around being tutored by the ghost of a man that never actually existed, it was clearly fantasy. There was no supernatural silliness in the historically inaccurate flashbacks this season and this is a modern times set story so there's no reason for everyone to throw up their hands and accept the story.

Quote

I understand what you are saying but Ryan always twists things to fit the narrative.

And I understand what you're saying, believe me. I'm just saying that I find it jarring and it takes me out of the story because he's getting so many things that are well known incorrect, I begin to watch for the errors and not the actual storyline - which in this case wasn't terribly clever. Part of it is that in earlier seasons, while allusions  were made, J P Marsh was a fictional character and NOT actually H. H. Holmes, who he was obviously based on. The Black Dahlia murder was never solved so fictionalizing who really did it isn't a big deal especially when it's clearly a supernatural setting.

Like you, I am interested in how Kai and Bibi met up but frankly I can't help but think it will be a let down.

Point - I also can't believe, in a modern setting like this, that no one has caught Ivy and Winter together on camera and shown Ally what her wife has been up to - there are people who would consider Ally the hero in the home invasion killing of Pedro and who would admire her. Likewise camera footage should show Ally trying to stop Meadow, which also engenders some public good will.

[ShadowHunter]

3 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Yup, I am aware that the show makes things up. And I did notice the silly serial killer parties in Hotel but since they were mostly silly and centered around being tutored by the ghost of a man that never actually existed, it was clearly fantasy. There was no supernatural silliness in the historically inaccurate flashbacks this season and this is a modern times set story so there's no reason for everyone to throw up their hands and accept the story.

And I understand what you're saying, believe me. I'm just saying that I find it jarring and it takes me out of the story because he's getting so many things that are well known incorrect, I begin to watch for the errors and not the actual storyline - which in this case wasn't terribly clever. Part of it is that in earlier seasons, while allusions  were made, J P Marsh was a fictional character and NOT actually H. H. Holmes, who he was obviously based on. The Black Dahlia murder was never solved so fictionalizing who really did it isn't a big deal especially when it's clearly a supernatural setting.

Like you, I am interested in how Kai and Bibi met up but frankly I can't help but think it will be a let down.

Point - I also can't believe, in a modern setting like this, that no one has caught Ivy and Winter together on camera and shown Ally what her wife has been up to - there are people who would consider Ally the hero in the home invasion killing of Pedro and who would admire her. Likewise camera footage should show Ally trying to stop Meadow, which also engenders some public good will.

All I can say is I guess I don't expect much or anything out of Ryan.  I learned that during the first season.  We could write a book on every plot hole from every season. 

I really stick around because I like some of the actors and characters. You speak truth it just doesn't bother me. 

My guess was maybe Bibi was a Professor. Kai did go to college so she may have been his Teacher. I hope we see that at least. 

[PsychoDrone]

Does anyone in the group know what is going on with Ally?  Yes, she was arrested, but cellphone video shows the shooting.  Pretty sure she will be, if not already, exonerated.  Kai is moving forward with his plans but is disregarding Ally to his peril.  All the other women will fall accordingly too.  Essentially traded one cult leader for another.  Didn't really question/validate her story at all.  She played on their anger at being pushed aside and now they're being manipulated AGAIN.

They're all pretty bad, but Ivy is the worst in my book.  "I just drove my wife crazy!!!"  Yeah, that makes it better.  She was no better than Harrison, since just like him, she HATED her wife.  Oh she wants Ally dead, but couldn't think of a good way to do it that gets her what she wants (not in jail and Ozy not traumatized).  I see a pattern forming here.  Harrison cut up the trainer and he got cut up.  Following that logic, Ivy will be cut up and rotting in a landfill.  It will probably be Chaz Bono that does it as payback for his lost arm.

Edited October 22, 2017 by PsychoDrone

[ZoloftBlob]

Quote

Following that logic, Ivy will be cut up and rotting in a landfill.  It will probably be Chaz Bono that does it as payback for his lost arm.

Yup. I'm expecting this particular comeuppance. 

[Stringey]

9 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

All I can say is I guess I don't expect much or anything out of Ryan.  I learned that during the first season.  We could write a book on every plot hole from every season. 

I really stick around because I like some of the actors and characters. You speak truth it just doesn't bother me. 

My guess was maybe Bibi was a Professor. Kai did go to college so she may have been his Teacher. I hope we see that at least. 

Hey that would be an awesome idea if she had been one of his college professors!!!!!! I can just picture  flashbacks.

[WearyTraveler]

On 10/18/2017 at 6:57 PM, TattleTeeny said:

That made me laugh -- forgive me if I am dumb but is that really a thing?

Yes, it is.  Brooke Shields had to walk in a ditch they dug in the sand for her because she was way taller than her male co-star in The Blue Lagoon.  The couple was walking along the beach and someone decided it didn't look good to have the girl be so much taller than the guy, so, out came the shovels and they dug this nice little trench for her to walk in next to him while they shot the scene.

Edited October 22, 2017 by WearyTraveler

[Chaos Theory]

On 10/18/2017 at 7:03 PM, DangerousMinds said:

I feel about Evan Peters the way some feel about Sarah Paulson. I wish he would sit out a season.

What I have always liked about this show is that it mostly maintained its brand of being an ensemble.  Of course one or two actors a season get picked as a lead.  I had the same problem with Jessica Lange during Coven and Freak Show.  Both were all about her.  Cult is in large part Evan Peters project but he has earned it.  Sarah Paulson is awesome  and one of the reasons I adore this show but I don’t think this is her season I am starting to think this may actually be a showcase season for Alison Pill and Adina Porter on the female side.

[RedMal]

Everything I felt about this terrible episode has already been said. That scene with Ivy killing Harrison was really, really forced. She has had troubles in actually killing people, but now after listening Frances Conroy's flashbacks, she's all in?

[JennyMominFL]

Cecelia Shephard and Bryan Hartnell really were stabbed at Lake Beryessa. I remember this so clearly as I have read the case file. A man on the lake found them still alive and I remember his testimony about how he waited for her to "compose herself"  or something when he found her. She died, Bryan lived. Bryan also asked the zodiac to stab him first as he could not bear to watch her stabbed.  They were stabbed separately  but the show had to do it this way .. We know there was only 1 person committing that murder

[iMonrey]

Quote

That Harrison and Meadow filmed the beat down on Kai and were interviewed on camera about it is a problem, when it's coupled with Harrison being the man with the dead boss, Harrison and Meadow immediately moving into the murdered city councilman's house, Harrison and Meadow working for the guy who is now running for city council, Harrison giving a gun to the "lesbian George Zimmerman" and now Meadow shooting Kai and others at the rally for Kai that Harrison also intended? That's suspicious as fuck. Add in the murdered opponent? National media would be totally in there.

I agree with this 100%. I'm too lazy to fact check but I think Beverly has been tied to more than one of the murders too - her boss, and the Emma Roberts character. We know that the blond cop who is Harrison's boyfriend is in on this cult but is the entire police department in on it? It doesn't seem likely to me that this one cop is powerful or important enough to deflect any attention away from the cult if the rest of the cops start looking at it. And as you so rightly pointed out, national media would be all over this shit.

[Chaos Theory]

8 hours ago, RedMal said:

Everything I felt about this terrible episode has already been said. That scene with Ivy killing Harrison was really, really forced. She has had troubles in actually killing people, but now after listening Frances Conroy's flashbacks, she's all in?

I think that is the one thing about the episode that made sense for me.  Ivy has always been passively angry but had no really outlet or direction for her anger.   The  entire season has been in large part her coming out story and finding a direction and outlet for her anger.    I think the story Frances Conroy told was in large part to point Ivy's increasingly simmering  anger in a direction and watching it boil over.  

Edited October 23, 2017 by Chaos Theory