S07.E06: Mid-Western Assassin

[AmandaPanda]

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Ally takes Meadow to Dr. Rudy to confirm her story about the cult. An unexpected opponent runs against Kai in the city council election.

[Spartan Girl]

That was unfortunate timing.

Yeah, no, I don't feel sorry for Ivy at all. Ally might be grating, but your infertility resentment is no excuse to join a cult and kill people. And BTW gaslighting your wife and driving her off the deep end isn't that much better than murder.

[SimoneS]

I thought that this was a great episode. It was good to see Sarah do something else other than cry and scream. I liked seeing how Ivy came to hate Ally. It now is totally understandable how her feelings for Ally turned to hate, but even so, hooking up with the cult seems over the top. At least, she couldn't bring herself to kill Ally.

Kai really is 10 steps ahead of everyone. Now his plan is putting him into national office. I hope that there is evidence and eyewitness testimony exonerating Ally of the shooting. I am surprised that Ally didn't figure out that her therapist had to be in the cult also.

The next episode seems like 180 degree pivot.

Edited October 11, 2017 by SimoneS

[TobinAlbers]

Gah. Poor Meadow didn't get that Kai had her kill two birds w/one stone- get him national attention & take herself out as a complication. She was so broken and far gone she literally would do anything that he asked and see it as an act of love and devotion.

And Ivy can miss me with the tears. She obviously left Ally alive because she knew they needed her alive for the setup. 

Sally should've fired as soon as those clowns stepped foot in her house. She could've taken out at least five if she was a good shot and gone hand to hand with the remainder. Better chance than what happened. Damn, this ep was going after the 'useless' intellectuals. Knowing stuff isn't enough anymore. Yikes.

[SimoneS]

3 minutes ago, TobinAlbers said:

And Ivy can miss me with the tears. She obviously left Ally alive because she knew they needed her alive for the setup. 

Damn, I hadn't considered that was the reason that she didn't kill Ally. She did say that she didn't want to put Ozzie through that. 

[mansfolly]

Good episode. A few random thoughts.

Opening scene, I was like...why are you so freaked out Ivy? You just nailed a guy in the skull to help kill him, watched a gimp and Bob get gruesomely murdered.

I wondered right away if Meadow was setting up Ally (yep, she was). The Dr calls Ally RIGHT after Meadow blurts her sh_t.

What is Michigan Brothers on those boxes in the garage? Are those just moving boxes?

Make people paranoid -- to soften them up. (Politicians' modus operandi).

"A young man's certainty is also his burden." (did i get that right?)

"Nothing shocks me. I went to Berkley."

"Nobody's going to believe that. Of course they will. It's on Facebook."

I too wondered if that Elephant head clown was Ivy.  Guess it was.

When Meadow shot Kai just in the leg... I was like, What? in the leg?! Really?!  Now it makes sense.

For me, when I watch Evan Peters.... he reminds me of a young Depp.  I could see Johnny in this role in the early 90s.

Sorry Mare W. was killed off so early. She's a great actress.

I like the storyline this season!

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is totally understandable how her feelings for Ally turned to hate, but even so, hooking up with the cult seems over the top. 

Totally agree. I was thinking the very same thing.

[ShadowHunter]

I realize Ally did a bit more but she still cried.  I just don't like her and then is that lol.

Ivy is a fool as well.

Loved the stuff between Evan and Mare. They were a great pair in Season 5 together. Evan has also killed Mare in S3, 5, and 7.

I figured last week Meadow was in on it and glad we learned that quickly.

Evan had a great smile at the end. 

Nice to Gary in a clown mask and part of the action now.

[peridot]

That wasn't really edited at all, right?  It still had a lot of gun violence.  What would they consider to be extreme violence?

Anyway, I was hoping Meadow was being straight with Ally.  I guess Meadow finally got that great screw she was chasing down. 
Just looking at Kai gives me the creeps, can you imagine him being one inch away from your face?

I'm surprised Ally wasn't more suspicious of the people around her.  Meadow was just laying unrestrained in the open grave & she was just sitting in the garage after they supposedly kidnapped her again. 

I just felt sorry for Ally this episode.  She shouldn't have made that "my baby" remark, but she doesn't deserve to be gaslighted.

[Chaos Theory]

I don't think it's over the top at all.  For the first time Izzy makes perfect sense.  She though she was going to be arrested for the kidnapping then Meadow introduced her to Kai who got her to play his pinky game and she told him how much and for how long she hated Ally.  The cult offers her a straight path to her son and to Meadow both things she wants badly.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Chaos Theory
My phone has been acting weird

[ShadowHunter]

Kai is not taking his adderall he is popping them like candy. They keep showing that every week now so I assume this will lead to something.

Still wonder how the Detective got involved. Maybe we will see his backstory. 

I believe Jim Jones also pretended to be dead to his followers then came back. 

[Anela]

I wondered if meadow was playing her, but I hoped she was really trying to help her. 

Damn. 

[Avaleigh]

No sympathy for Ivy over here. Ozzy deserves a better mother than her. How awful not to realize that the person you're sharing your life with actively hates you. 

Ivy didn't attempt to talk to Ally about any of her issues that were causing resentment. Like, how about explaining that she'd like to be able to feed their son too from time to time. Or that it hurts her when Ally makes comments that make it seem like she doesn't think of Ozzy as 'their son. 

No, she just goes straight to working on a plan to make sure that her wife doesn't get custody of their child. No one made her kidnap that asshole. She made a poor choice and she didn't want to own up to the consequences so she thought it was a better alternative to make Ally suffer as much as possible. 

Ivy even makes it seem like she doesn't have that much of an issue with murdering Ally. It's more about her not wanting Ozzy to suffer the pain of having his mother murdered. 

Meanwhile does Winter even truly want to be with Ivy or is she just playing her because Kai wants her to? I don't get what her deal is. 

I too hope that people will testify to the fact that Ally wasn't the shooter but I'm guessing that the video will end up making it look like it was her and not Meadow. Plus Ally already has a recent kill on her record. Plus, the psychiatrist is going to talk about how agitated and insane she sounded. 

It was sad to lose Mare's character so quickly. 

One thing that I kind of have to hand wave is how the cult knows exactly what Ally plans on doing all of the time. What if she hadn't decided to go over to Meadow and Harrison's backyard? What if she hadn't taken Meadow to the shrink and had just gone to the police in spite of Meadows protests? 

Meadow was as pathetic as they come, wow. A bit of attention from a guy, a brief sexual encounter, and she's willing to pull a mass shooting and suicide. This series has some of the most disgusting characters in the history of the show. 

[Spartan Girl]

7 hours ago, SimoneS said:

Damn, I hadn't considered that was the reason that she didn't kill Ally. She did say that she didn't want to put Ozzie through that. 

Like making your son think his mother is a cheating psychopath killer is so much less traumatizing.[/sarcasm]

I hope Ivy gets her comeuppance.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Spartan Girl

[SimoneS]

After the first episode, I said that I hoped that there was a reason that Kai and his cult was targeting Ally and now that we know it, everything has fallen into place and it makes me like this season even more.

[txhorns79]

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No sympathy for Ivy over here. Ozzy deserves a better mother than her. How awful not to realize that the person you're sharing your life with actively hates you. 

Yeah, the best case scenario for Ivy at this point should be jail and never seeing Ozzy again.

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One thing that I kind of have to hand wave is how the cult knows exactly what Ally plans on doing all of the time. What if she hadn't decided to go over to Meadow and Harrison's backyard? What if she hadn't taken Meadow to the shrink and had just gone to the police in spite of Meadows protests? 

I agree on this.  A lot of the cult's planning seems to rely on knowing Ally's every future move.  Even with people who know Ally well in the cult, I'd think that there would be times when Ally is going to do stuff to surprise them. 

Edited October 11, 2017 by txhorns79

[Chaos Theory]

It's a tv show of course a character always has other options.  If we all think hard enough I bet we could think of a hundred other things Ally could have done but it's a tv show and that means excepting and following along with the actions s character did take not the actions they could have or probably should have.

Izzy has hated Ally for a long time and is in around about way exactly the kin of person Kai would want in his cult.  An empty shell.  Someone who believes in nothing.  I thought his pinky game with her was one of the best all season.  

And of course Kai pimps off his sister.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[darkestboy]

Loved this episode. Shame that Sally died because she was an interesting antagonist for Kai but maybe next season the show will get Mare Winningham back in a bigger role.

Ivy's reasons for hating Ally though are harsh but she's still not willing to kill her, which is something. She does however deserve to lose Oz though.

Meadow's scenes this week were interesting and in retrospect, both her and Kai's manipulation of Ally was pretty obvious but done effectively nonetheless.

We still have no idea why Jack is a part of this cult though but I'm not sure it would do much to make his character interesting.

Shooting scenes were intense but I get why they were edited for this one, 8/10

[luna1122]

To call it 'a little over the top'  that Ivy joined a murderous cult cuz she hates her wife is kind of an understatement. I didn't get that she was so into WInter before either, but Kai sure picked up on it.  I want only bad things for Ivy now.

I loved Mare, I was so sorry to see her offed so quickly. She should have at least taken ONE of those freaking clowns down before they got her.

Evan has become such a fine actor. It's like we've seen him hone his craft from the first season to this one. I will always love Ryan Murphy for seeing that he was special.

[Chaos Theory]

For a woman scared of holes Ally sure got thrown into a deep one.  

[Pixel]

33 minutes ago, Chaos Theory said:

It's a tv show of course a character always has other options.  If we all think hard enough I bet we could think of a hundred other things Ally could have done but it's a tv show and that means excepting and following along with the actions s character did take not the actions they could have or probably should have.

One rule of storytelling is your characters shouldn't act as if they already know how other characters are going to react.  Putting Meadow in the open grave presupposes that Ally is definitely going to go over there and snoop around.  What if she hadn't? Me?  I would have hidden in a closet and called the cops, even though Meadow said the cops are in on it. They can't ALL be in on it. I'd have taken my chances.  

I hand wave it because really, if I think too hard about any of these storylines I'd never watch AHS at all.

[shedevil1111]

Just a reminder to people.

 

Her name isn't Izzy it's Ivy...their son is Oz

And the gray haired girl that is having an affair with Ivy is Winter.

 

For some reason their names seem odd this season and I have a hard time keeping them straight too. I always have to pause and remember which one is Meadow. It's weird.

[ZoloftBlob]

I think the problem is that a lot of the names sound similar - Ally, Ozy, Ivy. I'm currently willing to indulge the cult manipulating Ally so thoroughly because her shrink is in the cult and between the shrink and Ivy, they know how to press her buttons and wind her up.

[Avaleigh]

I need clarification at this point on the shrink's role in the cult. He never seems like he has to kill people or go to meetings or hang out with the others at all. At the same time, he's clearly involved and he has some control over Kai in that he's more than likely the one who is keeping him medicated. I have a feeling that Kai would freak out without his pill supply so I feel like the brother has the upper hand over Kai in that sense. 

Oh, and I'm more convinced than ever that Kai was responsible for the deaths of his parents. Seeing the way he killed Mare and talking about how awesome it is to kill, I bet that he put the gun in his mother's mouth. 

11 hours ago, txhorns79 said:

Yeah, the best case scenario for Ivy at this point should be jail and never seeing Ozzy again.

I agree on this.  A lot of the cult's planning seems to rely on knowing Ally's every future move.  Even with people who know Ally well in the cult, I'd think that there would be times when Ally is going to do stuff to surprise them. 

Also, what if Ally didn't go to the rally? What if she freaked out and ran away like the other bystanders? How would they know that she'd try to stop Meadow by actually grabbing the gun? There are so many things that might have gone wrong with this plan. What if Meadow's gun aim had been poor and she'd shot Kai somewhere fatal?

Edited October 11, 2017 by Avaleigh

[Stringey]

I enjoyed this episode but i was a little confused and disappointed over the preview for next weeks episode. Wtf is going on in that preview who was the lady in black hair?

[RedMal]

"Wait... You believe me?" I don't know why, but that made me laugh so hard.

But what was going on when Harrison was being dragged by cops from his house? He was all bloody and shouted how Meadow is dead. Was it just a plot point that they later altered and forgot to remove the scene?

Okay, so now Ally's tormenting pays off, since they set her up as the shooter. But that couldn't be the idea from the very beginning, so why did they agree to mess with her at the first place? Just because Ivy wants Ozzy?

[LoneHaranguer]

9 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

What if Meadow's gun aim had been poor and she'd shot Kai somewhere fatal?

That would have been a welcome departure from the predictability of the story. It's too soon in the season for anyone to make him a "martyr" and take over the cult, or even for us to know for sure if that's the plan. The way Meadow was aiming, it's remarkable she hit him at all. Or did she? Kai getting hit could have been staged in a SFX manner, eliminating most of the uncertainty (a bystander could have taken her out before she had a chance to fire in his direction). 

[TattleTeeny]

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But what was going on when Harrison was being dragged by cops from his house? He was all bloody and shouted how Meadow is dead. Was it just a plot point that they later altered and forgot to remove the scene?

I wondered this too.

[iMonrey]

I'll be interested to watch the unedited version of this episode on On-Demand. Frankly I don't think the edits, whatever they were, were the right response. This is the reality we're living in today. 

But surely enough people saw Meadow with the gun, right? I guess Kai can tell the police Ally was the shooter but there were a lot of witnesses at that rally who saw Meadow doing the actual shooting - she didn't kill everyone there. 

I don't get the retcon with Harrison and Meadow either - where did all the blood come from, and then where did it go?

[AnimeMania]

2 hours ago, Stringey said:

I enjoyed this episode but i was a little confused and disappointed over the preview for next weeks episode. Wtf is going on in that preview who was the lady in black hair?

It seems like Beverly is making her move to take over the cult. Not sure it is a good idea for Beverly to tell her plans to Kai's sister Winter. Something tells me that the lady with black hair is helping Beverly gain control of the cult by telling her what it was like since she is somebody who was in a cult in the past and they will be showing her experiences.

 

11 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Meanwhile does Winter even truly want to be with Ivy or is she just playing her because Kai wants her to? I don't get what her deal is. 

Yes, Winter and Ivy had a relationship before Ivy met Kai.

[OldButHappy]

1 hour ago, iMonrey said:

 

I'll be interested to watch the unedited version of this episode on On-Demand.

 

I won't be watching the unedited version, but I'll bet that the images of those shot at the rally were much more gruesome and bloody than the images that we saw;  I missed the first  couple of minutes of the show, so didn't see the note about the T.V. version being edited or the beginning of the shooting.  

I turned in the show two minutes or so into it, saw Ally with the gun, and wondered why all the people were lying on the ground not moving.  Knowing that this show has so much gore, shooting victims with no blood made me think they were cult members just acting like they were shot.

It wasn't until I watched the beginning of the 11pm episode that I figured out why the mass shooting was so bloodless.

Edited October 11, 2017 by OldButHappy

[RedMal]

3 minutes ago, AnimeMania said:

Yes, Winter and Ivy had a relationship before Ivy met Kai.

Did they though? If I recall correctly, Ivy and Winter met and kidnapped the guy in the same day. Then they left the basement and Kai came there next morning.

[ZoloftBlob]

Is the uncut version the pne that will be in the season pass if we're streaming it? Does anyone know?

[Chaos Theory]

24 minutes ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Is the uncut version the pne that will be in the season pass if we're streaming it? Does anyone know?

i don't think so.  Not at this time.  It might be updated later.    It may be offered at the end of the season as a special feature.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Chaos Theory

[ShadowHunter]

This is  the full unedited version. 

[AnimeMania]

45 minutes ago, OldButHappy said:

I won't be watching the unedited version, but I'll bet that the images of those shot at the rally were much more gruesome and bloody than the images that we saw

I saw the uncut version on my computer through the U-Verse portal through Hulu. The shootings were more graphic and Ivy was in a lot more danger.

 

46 minutes ago, RedMal said:

Did they though? If I recall correctly, Ivy and Winter met and kidnapped the guy in the same day. Then they left the basement and Kai came there next morning.

It seemed like Kai didn't know anything about what occurred until he made Winter pinky swear to tell the truth.

 

Anybody know which cult members were at the rally? I saw Harrison, Ivy, Beverly, Winter and Kai. Did I miss anybody?

[ShadowHunter]

4 hours ago, Stringey said:

I enjoyed this episode but i was a little confused and disappointed over the preview for next weeks episode. Wtf is going on in that preview who was the lady in black hair?

Well we find that out next week lol. Plus its Frances Conroy so I am sure she will be good.

[ZoloftBlob]

Unedited shooting is available on youtube. Definetely more directly shooty - people going down etc but not significantly more violent in my opinion.

[peacheslatour]

Thank you ShadowHunter.

[ShadowHunter]

18 minutes ago, peacheslatour said:

Thank you ShadowHunter.

Welcome. I can see why some of it was cut but I feel we really didn't lose that much. 

[peacheslatour]

Just now, ShadowHunter said:

Welcome. I can see why some of it was cut but I feel we really didn't lose that much. 

No, we really didn't. I'm just as lost as I was when I watched the edited version. ;)

[Stringey]

3 hours ago, ShadowHunter said:

 

This is  the full unedited version. 

Thanks for posting this so we can see the difference. There really is no gore but definitely terror that must have been very very similar in last Vegas.  Actually let me correct that  The last Vegas situation must have been 100 times this terror. This was a pretty small group.

Edited October 11, 2017 by Stringey

[LoneHaranguer]

6 hours ago, iMonrey said:

But surely enough people saw Meadow with the gun, right?

I'm sure quite a few of them caught it on video too. Proof that Ally wasn't the one to start shooting would have been available on the net by the time she got to the police station.

[Empress1]

21 hours ago, TobinAlbers said:

Sally should've fired as soon as those clowns stepped foot in her house. She could've taken out at least five if she was a good shot and gone hand to hand with the remainder. Better chance than what happened. Damn, this ep was going after the 'useless' intellectuals. Knowing stuff isn't enough anymore. Yikes.

I was wondering why Sally didn't start shooting right away. Go down fighting if you're going to go down, and maybe seeing that she was willing to kill them would have scared some of them off. 

10 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I need clarification at this point on the shrink's role in the cult. He never seems like he has to kill people or go to meetings or hang out with the others at all. At the same time, he's clearly involved and he has some control over Kai in that he's more than likely the one who is keeping him medicated. I have a feeling that Kai would freak out without his pill supply so I feel like the brother has the upper hand over Kai in that sense. 

Oh, and I'm more convinced than ever that Kai was responsible for the deaths of his parents. Seeing the way he killed Mare and talking about how awesome it is to kill, I bet that he put the gun in his mother's mouth. 

Also, what if Ally didn't go to the rally? What if she freaked out and ran away like the other bystanders? How would they know that she'd try to stop Meadow by actually grabbing the gun? There are so many things that might have gone wrong with this plan. What if Meadow's gun aim had been poor and she'd shot Kai somewhere fatal?

She came pretty close - I think she shot him in the upper thigh, which is close to the femoral artery. He could easily have bled out.

So Ivy joined a murderous cult because she hates her wife and wants to burn the world down because she loves her son? What? Fuck off, Ivy. Get a divorce like a normal person. Also her "I would have treasured every contraction" bothered me. It's not weird that Ally responded to pain by screaming.

I found Meadow's take on her dissatisfaction with her life interesting. She doesn't want to be a "boss bitch" (I hate that expression) and she doesn't have kids to nurture, and feminism has taught her that those are her only choices. She took it REALLY REALLY FUCKING FAR, but the notion that she feels like she's not doing enough is not unusual.

[Terrafamilia]

If Ally hadn't gone over and found Meadow in the hole Meadow could have "escaped", blabbed to Ally, and been recaptured. If Ally hadn't gone over to try and save Meadow, Meadow could have "escaped" again and shown up at the rally and done here business. Then crazy Ally could go around and try to convince people that her motive was that she had been captive of a murder cult.

[rubinia]

22 hours ago, mansfolly said:

I too wondered if that Elephant head clown was Ivy.  Guess it was.

It looked like the back of the mask had a donkey's head. Fitting for Ivy and her issues with politics.

[Stringey]

So in this last episode Kai reminded me of Manson some more with the way he sucked Meadow back in by seducing her. 

[ShadowHunter]

9 minutes ago, Stringey said:

So in this last episode Kai reminded me of Manson some more with the way he sucked Meadow back in by seducing her. 

Yes and many cult leaders actually. It was a good scene when Sally was talking about a few of them.

[Mattipoo]

Now that Ally has been "set up" as the shooter, I wonder where the rest of the season will take us. Guess Kai will become nationally famous and try and take over the White House? Looking forward to seeing Frances Conroy and (I think) Lena Dunham next week.

[Stringey]

6 hours ago, ZoloftBlob said:

Unedited shooting is available on youtube. Definetely more directly shooty - people going down etc but not significantly more violent in my opinion.

Agreed

[Fusion]

Was Gary at the rally? I didn't notice him there.