Season 5 Discussion

[Stripper Glitter]

18 hours ago, Normades said:

I totally agree!!  She was actually trying to control herself, which as you said concerns me for May.  It also is concerning for Azan or anyone else who gets in her way.  I think without cameras she would become quite violent and then blame the victim, of course.  I'm not so sure Azan would have smacked her back, though.  He just doesn't give me that vibe.  So far, I like the way he comes off very kind and gentle with May.  He seems far more invested in May's health and well being than Nicole is.  Nicole just disgusts me.

I 100% guarantee Nicole is like this with any man she's involved with. We are seeing her true colors, and they aren't pretty. She was abusive to Azan and it's not the first time she's treated someone that way. 

[Christina]

It took me several tries to get through this episode, in part because I was watching it on the app while undergoing medical tests, but it was 86 minutes of bull. It also appears that I have hypochondria because after reading the word misophonia, I googled it and discovered that I have that too! You all are bad influences. Also, it hurts to laugh and I kept laughing because you all are hilarious. Shame shame!

There was a conversation about the work permits somewhere on these thirteen pages. One of the prior couples discussed it when asked, I think it was Melanie and Devar, but can't remember for certain. To get the 90 day work permit before marriage was not inexpensive. After the marriage, you had to send the paperwork of the marriage along with the request for Green Card and additional fees. The first work permit was only for 90 days, then you couldn't work until you got the Green Card, which could take between three and six months. It wasn't worth the money to apply for that first work permit, and it wasn't likely that you would get a job worth anything when you could only work for 90 days before having to take a few months off. There was some type of loophole where you could get the work permit with the K-1 as long as you had a job sponsoring you, but they changed the law limiting it to 90 days, effectively making it worthless. We used to have a member who was an immigration attorney and I remember she said that it wasn't worth it, but don't remember if she said why that was.

The only person in this group I like even a little bit is Aika. She shut down the modeling, shut down Joe, who is being the ass to her since Josh doesn't have family to cover that part of the script, and made it clear she wasn't going to the grocery store in heels again. Someone suggested that Josh was wanting her to model in the adult industry, and it struck me as true; I think that was his ultimate plan. I've thought since the very beginning that he is a drug user and probable seller, but don't have any information to prove it. If Aika doesn't know it, she is being willfully obtuse. She probably also knows about his vasectomy and he may have told her he would try and reverse it, but I fully expect there to be a scene where she hears it for the first time so she can threaten to go home, as required by the script. She doesn't care where the money comes from to buy her a $13000 ring, so she doesn't reach "like" level, but "hate least" level, I guess.

The rest are so annoying that I can't muster much compassion. Annie is trying to do better for herself and her parents, but she knew before she left Thailand that David didn't have any money, a job, a home, or a pot to piss in, but did have medical and alcohol issues, and she still left with him. Does she think those things will miraculously appear once she lands here?

Azan is the victim of assault, but she was verbally and physically abusive to him last time, and he brought her back for the money, so even though Nicole is out of line and I would have absolutely loved it if she was seen hitting him and spent the evening in jail, Azan brought her back in exchange for money. His aunt is probably getting a small amount for a "location fee" and the family members who showed up probably got a few bucks, which is why twenty people were there to welcome her and the aunt didn't kick her out for asking if they could stay together, and he thought it was worth it to continue this charade for another 60 days. 

Both Annie and Azan deserve some sympathy and I just can't give them any, because they entered into these plans with full knowledge of the other person. Hopefully Annie will be able to land a job doing something she enjoys and earn enough money to send something to her parents, but she knows she isn't getting anything from David because he doesn't have anything to give. Chris and David are shady as hell and I fully expect to see them arrested for something so maybe he does have a few bucks to provide for her welfare, until he goes to prison.

Evelyn has told too many stories about how she met David so I can't remember what she said for this show. One of the stories made me believe that David was lying about being a virgin, and I don't even think he is religious. He started contacting her when she was 15. Why didn't he contact someone in Virginia if he wanted to be there so badly? Since I was watching on the app, they have these short 15-20 second commercials and in the middle of one batch of them was a short scene of Evelyn grinning like a fool (like usual) and telling a story about her ex-boyfriend and how she expected him to cause a scene when he meets David. Her friend who isn't in a relationship also said she thought he would make a scene, then the ex-boyfriend said that Evelyn broke up with him without warning and a few months later, announced her engagement to David. Then a couple more commercials played. It was a very odd scene and I didn't see anyone mention it. It seems pretty clear that they don't know anything about each other, and it may be because they only had a "relationship" for a few months. He may have had plans to get to Virginia fall through, so he told the teenager he had been chatting with that he had fallen for her. She breaks up with her boyfriend and starts the K-1. I googled the video but couldn't find it.They don't have any chemistry and don't know each other. I dislike both of them equally.

Finally, Luis made it completely clear that he does not want to watch Kensley, does not like watching her, doesn't like her, and Molly tells him it was too bad because it is his job. Way to just hand your child over to be abused, Molly. You are every bit as bad as Nicole. He has been mean to her already and says she brings him down and Molly is just "Oh, well." Kensley will now know it's not worth it to tell her mom that Luis says something mean to her or makes her uncomfortable, because her mom doesn't care. He'll probably need to return home to visit family soon, and will do it with Molly's money and she'll get all upset because he isn't doing the job of a househusband, when he has made it clear he doesn't plan on it. Two visits of partying with him obviously wasn't enough to know each other well enough for him to realize you were expecting help in the home and not just a nonstop party like he was expecting. It does look like she has learned some Spanish, though.

My right arm is dead from a multiple sclerosis flare so I'll save my bitching about the rest of them. They all suck in different ways. 

ETA: I've found several mentions of that video of Evelyn's ex-boyfriend and it is on the TLC site, but I cannot get the videos to load for some reason.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Christina
Added paragraph

[Bubbles1967]

5 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I bet neither of them are virgins. 

I think she is but he definitely isn’t. He’s what, 26?  He’s from Spain they have a reputation of being passionate   ( ie  Antonio but he is hot though.  Really hot. David is a stick in the mud)

she seems like she might be frigid. Too prim and proper.

Nicole should just call it a day and go home. He doesn’t want her fat ass plain and simple. She reminds me of Danielle because she is so desperate...although Danielle was seriously on the brink of insanity.  

Nicole is trying to force a relationship.  She’s grasping at straws. 

She should get her act together and focus of taking care of May. She should also  take care of herself and lose weight. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bubbles1967

[mamadrama]

40 minutes ago, Bubbles1967 said:

I think she is but he definitely isn’t. He’s what, 26?  He’s from Spain they have a reputation of being passionate   ( ie  Antonio but he is hot though.  Really hot. David is a stick in the mud)

she seems like she might be frigid. Too prim and proper.

 

He COULD be a virgin in the technical sense. It happens. A good male friend of mine didn't lose his virginity until he was 28. He was very good looking, had a great job working for NASA, and witty. He was Italian, very passionate, and actually very sexual, but he'd never engaged in penetration. At first, he wanted to wait until he was married. He wasn't religious at all, just kind of romantic. However, he was so shy that he had trouble approaching women and forming relationships. (Do you watch CRIMINAL MINDS? Think Dr. Reid.). Eventually, his virginity became kind of a heavy weight hanging over his head. It was actually stressing him out and it became difficult for him to date because as soon as women found out that he was a virgin, they were turned off or something. They assumed there was something wrong with him. He eventually asked me to remedy that problem for him. As someone else who was in their 20s before having sex for the first time, I understood where he was coming from. I did it. :-) We'd known each other for 20 years and were good friends. About a month later, he met a lovely lady, started dating her, and they married a year later. He says that finally having sex actually gave him the confidence to ask her out. 

There are more virginal men in their 20s than people think. 

1 hour ago, Christina said:

 

There was a conversation about the work permits somewhere on these thirteen pages. One of the prior couples discussed it when asked, I think it was Melanie and Devar, but can't remember for certain. To get the 90 day work permit before marriage was not inexpensive. After the marriage, you had to send the paperwork of the marriage along with the request for Green Card and additional fees. The first work permit was only for 90 days, then you couldn't work until you got the Green Card, which could take between three and six months. It wasn't worth the money to apply for that first work permit, and it wasn't likely that you would get a job worth anything when you could only work for 90 days before having to take a few months off. There was some type of loophole where you could get the work permit with the K-1 as long as you had a job sponsoring you, but they changed the law limiting it to 90 days, effectively making it worthless. We used to have a member who was an immigration attorney and I remember she said that it wasn't worth it, but don't remember if she said why that was.

 

It isn't worth it. It costs several hundred dollars to get the work permit and it takes around 90 days to get it-sometimes more. We applied for my husband's work permit and it came through exactly one day before he got the green card. This seems to happen to most people. 

Edited November 30, 2017 by mamadrama

[Pepper Mostly]

6 hours ago, Nowhere said:

I bet neither of them are virgins. 

Do people still use the term "technical virgin"? Cause that's what I'm thinking. 

[Kangatush]

There's something that has confused me on every season.  The driving thing.  There's nothing specific to the K1 that says they can't drive.  There's nothing legally to prevent foreigners from driving here, as long as they have a valid license from their country.  Otherwise nobody on vacation would be able to rent a car here.  I can see how some of the fiances might not have a license, but all of them?  Seems fishy.

And I noticed during the dinner with Family Evelyn when David was talking about the town seeming to be emptying, he said something like, "I see for sale signs on almost every street when I'm out driving... (pause)... with Evelyn."

10 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Do people still use the term "technical virgin"? Cause that's what I'm thinking. 

Exactly.  There's a whole world of things besides just p in v.  I'm thinking there's probably been some experimentation before now.  But not between David and Evelyn, they don't even seem to like each other.  :)

Edited November 30, 2017 by Kangatush

[CoachWristletJen]

10 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Do people still use the term "technical virgin"? Cause that's what I'm thinking. 

That's quite possible -- especially for David.

Some young women in the virginity cults often do "everything but" with their boyfriends. It really makes no sense, and they are basically conditioning themselves for a sexual dysfunction when the big day finally arrives. 

I mean, not to be too crude, but if two people get stripped down together, they might as well seal the deal because intimacy has been established.

[CoachWristletJen]

1 hour ago, Bubbles1967 said:

I think she is but he definitely isn’t. He’s what, 26?  He’s from Spain they have a reputation of being passionate   ( ie  Antonio but he is hot though.  Really hot. David is a stick in the mud)

she seems like she might be frigid. Too prim and proper.

Nicole should just call it a day and go home. He doesn’t want her fat ass plain and simple. She reminds me of Danielle because she is so desperate...although Danielle was seriously on the brink of insanity.  

Nicole is trying to force a relationship.  She’s grasping at straws. 

She should get her act together and focus of taking care of May. She should also  take care of herself and lose weight. 

Good point. While not the sharpest knife in the drawer, by comparison, Antonio is like the wildly hot, much younger, handsomer brother of David. (Even though David is actually younger, I think.)

It's hard to believe those two are even from the same country.

What makes David so not hot are his provincial attitudes and his arrogance. And, the fact that he peruses the internet for teenaged girls. Let's just hope that he doesn't have some kind of sexual dysfunction himself that he turns around and blames her for because he will. ("You ate that blueberry muffin yesterday and you're bloated, Evelyn." Not that bad, but you get the idea.)

Nicole really does need to take care of herself for the sake of her health. Azan isn't fooling anybody except her, and I hope he releases her. This isn't worth it for a few measly hundred dollars a month! If he doesn't break up with her, she'll cling to him forever, so it's up to him to say, "We're done."

Also, she really should have learned more about the culture. You would think that just being in Morocco would have spurred an interest in something besides Azan's penis, but noooo... She basically shamed him in the streets with her  public manhandling of him. She couldn't possibly understand the import of that! I really hope the 90DF doesn't air on TV there because he'll never live that down, poor guy! (Poor guy who is dragging her lazy heart along for no reason whatsoever except a couple of hundred bucks a month.)

[brillia79]

3 hours ago, Bubbles1967 said:

I think she is but he definitely isn’t. He’s what, 26?  He’s from Spain they have a reputation of being passionate   ( ie  Antonio but he is hot though.  Really hot. David is a stick in the mud)

I dunno. The way he sought out s young girl and came to town thinking he could dictate to her in a condescending way... it wouldn't surprise me if he was a follower of RooshV... and those guys never get laid. Incel.

[Normades]

8 hours ago, Nowhere said:

In this case, I don't think Azan shuts down because he is "being abused". I think both Azan and Nicole act abusive in their own way. She will lash out and hit and he makes her feel like shit all the time. As much as we don't like Nicole and possibly agree with some of the things Azan says to her, SHE may feel emotionally abused. She is much softer spoken this season which tells me Azan is training her well. I also think Nicole will probably get a good back-handed smack as soon as the cameras are gone and just like that the tables will turn. She doesn't hurt Azan. I'm not giving her an excuse for pushing him, I'm just saying, he's fine. He's not scared of her. 

I was in an abusive relationship and I was very scared and I did shut down like you're saying. Sometimes, I tried to defend myself and then I was accused of being abusive. To be clear, my abuser was a fighter and had been in several serious fights throughout his life. He hurt a guy so bad that he was sued for injuries and owed him 200k. But as soon as I tried to fight back, he acted like he was soooo hurt BY ME. I'm 100 lbs and 5'3. I have no training whatsoever and have never been in a fight besides with him. I assure you, he was not hurt. And I seriously doubt Nicole can really hurt Azan. He could easily restrain her fat ass if he wanted to. It will happen eventually. Azan is not abused. He's not scared. That doesn't mean Nicole should hit him or anyone. But I do think there's a difference between a push from an out of shape woman and a hit from a man. Both can be considered abuse but one is definitely more harmful. 

Anyway, I don't know why I told y'all all that but something about calling Nicole abusive, with Azan being an innocent victim, is triggering me. 

We definitely see this very differently.  Azan looked pretty upset and shook up when she was going on that tirade, as did May and the other people exposed to it (except the TLC staff who were probably salivating).  First of all, I think some of the things Azan says can be attributed to English being a second language along with cultural differences.  Nicole thinks it's okay to eat junk food constantly, not care for her kid, and sleep til 3pm everyday, but heaven forbid someone calls her lazy.  I agree with Azan.  She is lazy.  If it hurts, she can either try to make changes or find someone else.  I don't see her as being soft spoken at all, so if that's Azan's goal, he's failing miserably in my opinion.  I think it's unfair that when men are abused they are told, "well, that woman couldn't have hurt a big man like you."  This is why men don't report when it does happen.  I realize that women are usually at a physical disadvantage and are the victims more often, but I don't think the abuse of anyone should be tolerated or undercut.  Look at the still pictures.  She is twice his size.  I'm sure he's strong, but she does have an advantage, too.  I do think she could hurt him if she wanted to.  Getting shoved around by someone twice your size is intimidating and scary. It can also really hurt.  And even if she didn't hurt him physically, it is emotionally scarring to be pushed around like that and be powerless to fight back.  I think this was particularly distressing for Azan because he has talked about his culture and how people are expected to behave with some discretion and decorum, especially in public and here he is in public being pushed around by this large woman.  I imagine it hurt his male pride and his reputation.  I just find it really wrong.  I also am not so sure that he will eventually hit her if given the chance.  I haven't seen any behavior from Azan that indicates he would get physical.  I have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that front.

I feel for what you suffered.  I sincerely hope you are in a safe and better place.  For the record, I've had my own experiences with abuse.  I just think that there is no excuse for Nicole's behavior and I don't think anyone's suffering should be discounted, whether there is physical damage or not.  I understand there are varying degrees of physical damage, but NO abuse should be tolerated.

[Pepper Mostly]

3 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Some young women in the virginity cults often do "everything but" with their boyfriends. It really makes no sense, and they are basically conditioning themselves for a sexual dysfunction when the big day finally arrives. 

Right? And please. If you are doing "everything but" how do you get to call yourself a virgin? I'm serious. Doesn't the word virgin connote pure and untouched? Not someone who's been doing anal with her boyfriend for the last year? These virginity guardians only care about the one, um, route of entry? It baffles me.

[CoachWristletJen]

Just now, Pepper Mostly said:

Right? And please. If you are doing "everything but" how do you get to call yourself a virgin? I'm serious. Doesn't the word virgin connote pure and untouched? Not someone who's been doing anal with her boyfriend for the last year? These virginity guardians only care about the one, um, route of entry? It baffles me.

It's a seriously disturbed way of thinking. Especially because it causes people, especially young women, to think of themselves as somehow sullied and unworthy of love.

Meanwhile it's okay to be haughty and bitchy and any number of other things. 

I say young women because there is an intense double standard in these cults although men feel the shame, too. They tend to externalize that shame in unhealthy ways considering "certain women" to be whores, etc. (i.e., Josh Duggar although I kind of think he's antisocial on his own without help from the cult, not that it helped). They do so because they can't accept responsibility for their natural sexual urges. It's natural to desire the woman you love and want to be intimate with her. And, maybe you wanted to wait, well, it's not the worst thing in the world so they need to LIGHTEN UP! We don't marry at 18 in this country because it would be foolish to do so. It's absurd to think of waiting until age 27 to have sex nowadays.

I also dislike the way Evelyn's parents seem to be taking a backseat to David Spain and letting him call the shots. He's acting like a little punk while her parents act like helpless puppies. Have they no assertion skills whatsoever?

[wovenloaf]

6 minutes ago, Pepper Mostly said:

Right? And please. If you are doing "everything but" how do you get to call yourself a virgin? I'm serious. Doesn't the word virgin connote pure and untouched? Not someone who's been doing anal with her boyfriend for the last year? These virginity guardians only care about the one, um, route of entry? It baffles me.

I agree.  Makes no sense to me.  I had a friend in high school that was adamant about not wanting to lose her virginity, but then also had no problem telling us how she had been doing anal with her 20-something year old boyfriend.  It was ridiculous.  I definitely don't think all, or even most, people who care about waiting until they are married are like that.  But some certainly are. 

Also, not all Christians who think waiting until marriage is important compare non-virgins to "chewed gum" or garbage or whatever.  The Duggars and their ilk aren't a representation of how average Christians think or behave.  Not by a long shot.  

[Bryce Lynch]

19 minutes ago, wovenloaf said:

I agree.  Makes no sense to me.  I had a friend in high school that was adamant about not wanting to lose her virginity, but then also had no problem telling us how she had been doing anal with her 20-something year old boyfriend.  It was ridiculous.  I definitely don't think all, or even most, people who care about waiting until they are married are like that.  But some certainly are. 

Also, not all Christians who think waiting until marriage is important compare non-virgins to "chewed gum" or garbage or whatever.  The Duggars and their ilk aren't a representation of how average Christians think or behave.  Not by a long shot.  

I think, there is a difference between being a virgin and being "sexually pure".  Anyone who hasn't had intercourse is technically, by definition, a "virgin", but if they have been having anal and/or oral sex, they are certainly not sexually pure, by Christian standards.

I would consider a girl or guy who had had intercourse in the past, but had committed to not having sex outside of marriage any more to be sexually pure but the "virgins" regularly engaging in oral or anal sex would not be.  I believe that the Bible calls for no sex outside of marriage.  But a person who has had sex outside of marriage, but has repented and turned from it is certainly not "like chewed gum" or garbage or whatever.     

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bryce Lynch

[jmonkey]

David/Evelyn-I get that David is a straight shooter and much of what he says is absolutely correct, but he needs to learn how to read a room and how to be a good guest. Any seasoned traveler, as elitist David claims to be, is able to find the merits of any place and it would be much better for him to focus on those, especially when the Evelyn Claremont Clan is taking care of his lodging and probably covering all his meals. Taking a dump on Claremont in front of Evelyn and her family when it's all they know isn't going to get Evelyn on his side. He can sell Virginia without dissing Claremont. Evelyn would be happy to move with him if he had concrete plans. I know he can't work yet, but getting a good job in Virginia would be an excellent start. If he could hook up Evelyn with a good breakfast place, a music producer, an apple orchard, and an apartment with vintage decor, that would be all the better to help Evelyn make the transition smoother. I'm all in favor of breaking up the Evelyn Family Band, but it's going to take more than a couple of buddies and warmer weather in Virginia to get Evelyn comfortable enough to make the move. She's probably terrified of leaving Claremont. It's David's job as a future husband to help validate and ease those fears. Maybe they could take a trip there and he can show her how awesome it is. Evelyn is still so young and sheltered that every experience she has is going to be mind-blowing. I still don't get this couple. They don't seem to like each other or have anything in common other than being virgins. It boggles my mind the lengths people will go to for virgin sex that will be less satisfying than those apples. I'm weird because I love watching people eat, and that Evelyn sure has some chompers on her.

Molly/Luis-Is there anything sadder than Daddy Day Care (Luis) and Cowboy Suave (Brother Molly) at Magic City on Luis's day off? I'm a straight guy and I don't get the appeal of throwing a bunch of ones at strippers. It seems degrading. pathetic, and like a Neanderthal move more than anything. Luis is basically Molly's third child. I laughed when he told Molly to wake him up in the morning as he hung up on her. That's something parents do for their young kids so they get to school on time. Luis has no interest in being a stepdad. He wants none of the responsibilities and only the perks of being with Molly, i.e. green card, sex every night, roof over his head, free meals, possibly money to send to the D.R. If you view marriage as a death sentence, then you're not ready to get married. Luis is still in single mode and doesn't want live up to his end of the business transaction. Pretty much all he has to do is watch Kensley and marry and sleep with Molly in exchange for a green card and financial support. It's not the easiest pathway to citizenship, but we've seen much worse on this show. It ticks me off that Luis complains about boredom and then takes a hands-off approach when it comes to the wedding. Maybe he could try to do most of the wedding planning and take some stress off of Molly since he's not working and has zero interest in taking care of Kensley. Obviously he would do a crap job of wedding planning and Molly would end up taking over anyway, but why can't Luis put in some effort into their relationship? He seemed to naively think that their marriage would be a continuation of Molly's Dominican vacation and it's a major buzzkill for him to face reality. I don't get why Molly would have to resort to Luis. Yes, she's kind of annoying, but she's also quite a catch. She has a nice home and her own business. She's not the most attractive, but she's not butt ugly either. Surely she can do better than Luis. She just has a really bad picker. Luis screams red flag to most people, but she has her blinders on because she wants an epic wedding so badly.

Nicole/Azan-The thing I love about this show is how the script gets flipped and you actually feel sorry for the green card scammer. If an honorary green card were a thing, Azan would be the first recipient and he has paid dearly for that privilege. I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy the stuff this man has had to soldier through and endure with Nicole. I feel so bad for Azan and see how conflicted he is. He's right that there's nothing to say as this relationship has run its course. They are at an impasse and neither one of them is budging. Nicole just needs to go home and get May out of that toxic environment and back to grandma. While Azan wants the green card for his family and secretly enjoys being financially supported by Nicole, I think he's starting to realize there is an easier pathway to U.S. citizenship and moving to Florida to be with Nicole would ruin his life. Nicole isn't changing. She will always be a conniving, cheating abuser who plays the victim. If Azan talks to her, she will just use it against him. Azan's choice to remain silent is his last semblance of power in his ever-dwindling manhood. If he wants to save face, this relationship needs to be over. Due to the exposure from the show, I'm sure he'll have a plethora of better green card opportunities if he breaks up with Nicole. I feel really bad for Azan's family for being caught in the middle of this production. Even if they're in on the green card scam, they still seem like sweet people.

David Poor/Annie GoldBaht-It has been well established that David Poor is a sad sack of a man who should not be drinking alcohol at all. Of course he wasn't going to turn down free alcohol, and Antonio Burning Tacos wasn't going to miss a chance to get his 15 minutes of fame and attack David Poor if the Ninja Turtle Penguin served one up. And serve one up he did. He was saying all kinds of bizarre crap. Everything Antonio said voiced my thoughts exactly, but I just wish he would've gone about it in a different way for Annie's sake. She was already uncomfortable with David's behavior and Antonio shouting it out from across the hot tub made her even more uncomfortable. I mean, she's new to America and experiencing culture shock as it already and then she has to put with this nonsense. Leave it to David Poor to ruin a good thing. Living with Chris and Nicole is the best he's going to be able to offer Annie and he's blowing his free ride. He was already treading on thin ice with Nicole before moving in and he probably slipped up enough to get extradited to Kentucky. My question is the 90 days thing transferable? Could Annie GoldBaht find someone else to marry to stay in the US? Probably not. We all know that David Poor is going to fail at staying sober and, even if he does, he's going to make a complete jackass out of himself at the wedding and make Annie regret her decision even more than she already does. Watching Annie at the sex toy shop was the highlight of this episode. Oh my Buddha!!! 

Libby/Andreiiiiiiiiii-I love this couple and hate Libby's sisters. Libby has a real man, so why would she need a last hurrah in Vegas? Unlike Luis, she doesn't view marriage as a death to her single life and doesn't need to stuff ones in g-strings to feel liberated before taking the plunge. Libby actually respects Andrei's wishes. I think being considerate of loved ones feelings is maturing as a person rather than a threat to independence. Libby is still free to be independent within the confines of her marriage to Andrei. She seems to know what's she getting into, and her awful sisters need to stay out of it. It works both ways. It's not like Andrei is going to be going to Magic City for a bachelor's party. If there was such a double standard, the outrage of Libby's sisters would be more acceptable. I think we're supposed to find Andrei controlling and misogynistic, but I find him rational and refreshing. I enjoyed watching him calmly eat chips and drink his beverage while being barraged by the grand inquisition.

Josh/Aika-I know Aika won't go back to the Philippines. She's there for the green card. It's a shame she couldn't do better than Josh. He doesn't deserve her. I have no doubt that he promised her a bunch of stuff to lure her to the US that he can't deliver now that she's there to collect. I'm sure he promised her a home of their own, a new ring, and a family. It's such a buzzkill to Josh for her to demand these things when he just wants arm candy. I think Josh is a "bros before hoes" kind of guy, so he likes to hear his friend diss Aika. It makes him feel better about himself even though he's a major loser.

Edited November 30, 2017 by jmonkey

[booboopbedoo]

4 hours ago, Kangatush said:

And I noticed during the dinner with Family Evelyn when David was talking about the town seeming to be emptying, he said something like, "I see for sale signs on almost every street when I'm out driving... (pause)... with Evelyn."

An International License is about 25 bucks. and super easy to get. It amazes me that no one researches ANYTHING before going to another country!! ( I am yelling)

[balisticnikki]

17 hours ago, Normades said:

I think it's pretty common for someone who is being abused to shut down.  I can't fault Azan for that.  I've had up close experience with this and that's exactly what it looked like to me.  Also, we only have Nicole's word for what was said and I have to take that with several grains of salt.  I don't doubt there are bad feelings toward the US and Nicole is not a good ambassador for us, but I just can't take her word on it.  I also have to imagine that they are all sick to death of this spoiled jackass who sleeps all day, doesn't respect their culture, expects everyone else to care for her small child, and physically abuses their son/nephew/friend.  All of that would make me say some not very nice things to her.

Abused?? LOL He invited her back to Morocco knowing she is. That's a silly thing to say and it is an affront to women and men who are powerless and stuck in an actually abusive situation. Don't hyperbolize.

 

6 hours ago, Bubbles1967 said:

I think she is but he definitely isn’t. He’s what, 26?  He’s from Spain they have a reputation of being passionate   ( ie  Antonio but he is hot though.  Really hot. David is a stick in the mud)

That's a stereotype. No ethnic group is hornier (or more "passionate") than any other ethnic group.

 

11 hours ago, Nowhere said:

In this case, I don't think Azan shuts down because he is "being abused". I think both Azan and Nicole act abusive in their own way. She will lash out and hit and he makes her feel like shit all the time. As much as we don't like Nicole and possibly agree with some of the things Azan says to her, SHE may feel emotionally abused. She is much softer spoken this season which tells me Azan is training her well. I also think Nicole will probably get a good back-handed smack as soon as the cameras are gone and just like that the tables will turn. She doesn't hurt Azan. I'm not giving her an excuse for pushing him, I'm just saying, he's fine. He's not scared of her. 

I was in an abusive relationship and I was very scared and I did shut down like you're saying. Sometimes, I tried to defend myself and then I was accused of being abusive. To be clear, my abuser was a fighter and had been in several serious fights throughout his life. He hurt a guy so bad that he was sued for injuries and owed him 200k. But as soon as I tried to fight back, he acted like he was soooo hurt BY ME. I'm 100 lbs and 5'3. I have no training whatsoever and have never been in a fight besides with him. I assure you, he was not hurt. And I seriously doubt Nicole can really hurt Azan. He could easily restrain her fat ass if he wanted to. It will happen eventually. Azan is not abused. He's not scared. That doesn't mean Nicole should hit him or anyone. But I do think there's a difference between a push from an out of shape woman and a hit from a man. Both can be considered abuse but one is definitely more harmful. 

Anyway, I don't know why I told y'all all that but something about calling Nicole abusive, with Azan being an innocent victim, is triggering me. 

I hadn't read this before I posted that: (But yes, exactly.)

Edited November 30, 2017 by Drogo
Quote formatting.

[Bugfrey Von]

 There is so much to say about this episode, it’s hard to think of where to start. 

 Let’s begin with Evelyn and Pudgy Spanish David. There are little things that make me as gleeful as when I see Evelyn‘s jaw clench when David shuts her down ass down. She is a smug, self-satisfied asshole who thinks she has the world figured out at 18. She’s getting what she deserves and maybe she’ll learn from this and be a better person. She might be the belle of Claremont, but she ain’t shit anywhere outside of her zip code.  Having said that, what a piece of shit this guy is. As a person with a Spanish (from Spain) background, I can tell you that his response to this small New Hampshire town is very typical. My family from Spain thinks that their shit doesn’t stink, there’s nothing greater than Spain, the sun rises and sets on the Iberian Peninsula, God is probably a Spaniard, etc. He can get the fuck out of here with that shit. When he met his underaged bride, I bet he thought he was going to have a little American acolyte that he could educate and mold, springing her from her little provincial life and mold a worldly, sophisticated woman. Well guess what, Pygmalion - you roped yourself to a fucking immature jerk who is VERY satisfied being the big fish in her small pond. Bundle up for winter, my dude. Wittle singer Evelyn is not going anywhere, you elitist! It’s delicious karma, watching those two.

Annie and David are doomed. He’s a drunk, Annie - go back to Thailand. You had a vacation to LA, your parents have some water buffaloes and you got some gold out of the deal. Call it even. 

Aika and Josh? Doomed. Aggressive Nazi hair friend is back at it with the new sheriff shit. What’s next? Dressing up as Uncle Sam and screaming “Don’t tread on me” while taking Aika ATVing? Trash. I hate people that think it’s their job to vet immigrants about their intentions when entering the US.  America doesn’t need your help. Josh wanted a blow up doll and is now shocked and appalled that the one he picked talks back and has an opinion.

Azan and Nicole? Nicole is a moron and an abuser, but the way she acted on camera, the wringing  of the hands, her speech, made me really feel like she has some sort of developmental stump. I felt bad for our giant toddler today.

[ethalfrida]

Azan is a male in a country where DV is to a large extent ignored. But that is DV against women. 

He is not afraid of Nicole. He shut down on her because of her approach. IMHO, he shut down to keep from giving her a good, hard left hook to the jaw, lol. But really he did the right thing. Any form of participation whether verbal or physical could put him in a difficult situation. And it could have international repercussions for him. Because even if he ends the relationship with her he may want to try again with someone else and he couldn't do that if he on record as anything but the victim. Even self defense could work against him.

[Normades]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

Abused?? LOL He invited her back to Morocco knowing she is. That's a silly thing to say and it is an affront to women and men who are powerless and stuck in an actually abusive situation. Don't hyperbolize.

I obviously don't agree.  I call what she did to Azan, May and his family abuse.  Abused spouses and partners invite abusers back into their lives, homes, beds, etc. all the time.  It does not mean they are not abused.  It's a cycle.  Look, I'm not saying they're in the same cycle of a day to day relationship, but she has power over him with the hopes of coming to the US and money.  She grabbed his face, yelled and screamed, ran after him. blocked his passage, and grabbed and pushed him.  She stood over him in an aggressive manner.  If Azan did it to her, I think many people would call that abuse.  I'm not willing to say that it's not just because genders are reversed.

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

Abused?? LOL He invited her back to Morocco knowing she is. That's a silly thing to say and it is an affront to women and men who are powerless and stuck in an actually abusive situation. Don't hyperbolize.

Abuse victims often take abusers back, drop dv charges, cancel restraining orders, etc. Repeatedly. Even after being counseled not to. It's super common. We did see her physically abuse him on camera. We know she likes to yell and has blamed Azan for her behavior (you make me this way). This is what real abuse looks like. Breaking abuse patterns is very difficult.

Nicole doesn't get to be the victim just because she's a woman.

[Gigglepuff]

This is the second time we've seen Nicole get physically aggressive with Azan. Not a good pattern and totally inexcusable. I'm not going to guess as to how afraid Azan was and that doesn't really matter. Nicole has a temper and acts out physically. She can't control her emotions and resorts to violence. 

[Kangatush]

Definition of abuse - use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse, treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly

Nicole has abused Azan.  Doesn't matter if he was physically hurt, doesn't matter if he invited her to Morocco, doesn't matter if other people have it worse.  

Putting your hands on someone out of anger is always wrong.  

[gingerella]

1 hour ago, Gigglepuff said:

This is the second time we've seen Nicole get physically aggressive with Azan. Not a good pattern and totally inexcusable. I'm not going to guess as to how afraid Azan was and that doesn't really matter. Nicole has a temper and acts out physically. She can't control her emotions and resorts to violence. 

Speaking of patterns, from what we saw of Father Toddler so far, he seems like a calm, sedate person. Mother Toddler comes off as being a potential hot head so my money is on La Toddler learning this stuff from Mommy Dearest.

[Normades]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

Some men truly are victims of domestic abuse and suffer broken bones, bruises, PTSD, depression, etc. But this ain't it. You're being melodramatic. He is not beholden to her in any way and she's about to leave the country. If they see each other ever again it will be his CHOICE.

I agree that sometimes abuse has horrible consequences, however abuse is abuse.  Nicole is abusive and has shown typical abusive behavior in victim blaming.  Azan is a victim at this point whether he has a broken bone or not.  That is not melodrama it is the facts.  I would not want someone twice my size to grab my face, yell, chase me around, block my exit and bully me just to be told that I've not been abused and I'm being melodramatic.  It's scary to have someone big looming over you aggressively, even if you don't have residual physical damage.  No one should be treated that way and again I think if the tables were turned people would be up in arms calling for Azan's arrest.  I hope he doesn't ever see her again, but I imagine that from what has been said about her constant phone calls she will not make it easy for him.  If he did live near her I would bet that she would become a stalker.  She wants what she wants and no one should dare to say no.  Her mother told us all as much.

[Arwen Evenstar]

44 minutes ago, gingerella said:

Mother Toddler comes off as being a potential hot head so my money is on La Toddler learning this stuff from Mommy Dearest.

Mother Toddler can’t even control the monster she created.

[Normades]

2 minutes ago, Arwen Evenstar said:

Mother Toddler can’t even control the monster she created.

That's another thing that really drives me crazy.  Nicole's mother always takes her side when Nicole talks about the problems with Azan.  We saw her last year tell her how mean Azan was to her, but she never heard one word of the things Nicole did.  Now her mother has presumably seen the show and her daughter's awful behavior, but when we saw a clip of her complaining to her mother, it seemed the mother was acting as if Nicole was a little angel while everyone else was mean to her.  That can't be the first time she's heard that song and dance from her daughter.  She knows how horribly Nicole behaves, she's said as much.  I think she is just making the situation worse and not being helpful to Nicole. She needs to encourage her to take a long hard look at her own behavior.  When the problems are everyone else's, you have to consider that you are the common denominator and discern whether you need to make changes.  I keep wondering if she just placates Nicole to try and get May back safely under her care.  Either way, she's doing no favors.  Nicole needs help and some self reflection.  She is a nasty piece of work.  I truly feel awful for poor little May.

[Arwen Evenstar]

5 minutes ago, Normades said:

She knows how horribly Nicole behaves, she's said as much.  I think she is just making the situation worse and not being helpful to Nicole. She needs to encourage her to take a long hard look at her own behavior.  When the problems are everyone else's, you have to consider that you are the common denominator and discern whether you need to make changes.  I keep wondering if she just placates Nicole to try and get May back safely under her care.  Either way, she's doing no favors.  Nicole needs help and some self reflection.  She is a nasty piece of work.  I truly feel awful for poor little May.

The problem is that Nicole is already a malignant narcissist.  Everything is about her, nothing is ever her fault, and she’s the most perfect, beautiful creature on the face of this earth.  That said, don’t ask her to change even one teeny, weeny thing about Herself. And, they never apologize, much less admit wrongdoing.  

[Chickabiddy]

9 minutes ago, Normades said:

I agree that sometimes abuse has horrible consequences, however abuse is abuse.  Nicole is abusive and has shown typical abusive behavior in victim blaming.  Azan is a victim at this point whether he has a broken bone or not.  That is not melodrama it is the facts.  I would not want someone twice my size to grab my face, yell, chase me around, block my exit and bully me just to be told that I've not been abused and I'm being melodramatic.  It's scary to have someone big looming over you aggressively, even if you don't have residual physical damage.  No one should be treated that way and again I think if the tables were turned people would be up in arms calling for Azan's arrest.  I hope he doesn't ever see her again, but I imagine that from what has been said about her constant phone calls she will not make it easy for him.  If he did live near her I would bet that she would become a stalker.  She wants what she wants and no one should dare to say no.  Her mother told us all as much.

A thousand times this. As it was stated in the quote above and upthread a few times: if Azan were the one treating Nicole like this, all hell would break loose. Donald Trump might even be moved to tweet about Muslim violence against women. Abuse is abuse. The double standard here just blows my mind. 

And let's keep in mind that this Nicole on her best behavior IN FRONT OF CAMERAS! I  mean, OMG, what is she capable of when no on is looking and she on her home turf with all the control? This is not the first time we have seen her behave aggressively towards Azan. And it wasn't just one incident this time. She kept coming back at him with no shame or shock at her behavior. Azan didn't even look shocked. He crouched down and put his hands up ...like he had seen this all before and knew the drill. 

I don't know why Azan is with her or why he may still be with her. Lots of DV  victims have personal reasons for staying. Even though they may not have broken bones or reasons that we can understand, it does not negate their suffering or their status as victims of abuse. 

Nicole's attitudes, her emotional state, and frankly, her size make her a very dangerous person to anyone who gets in her way and does not give her exactly what she wants when she wants it. 

[ethalfrida]

9 minutes ago, Normades said:

That's another thing that really drives me crazy.  Nicole's mother always takes her side when Nicole talks about the problems with Azan.  We saw her last year tell her how mean Azan was to her, but she never heard one word of the things Nicole did.  Now her mother has presumably seen the show and her daughter's awful behavior, but when we saw a clip of her complaining to her mother, it seemed the mother was acting as if Nicole was a little angel while everyone else was mean to her.  That can't be the first time she's heard that song and dance from her daughter.  She knows how horribly Nicole behaves, she's said as much.  I think she is just making the situation worse and not being helpful to Nicole. She needs to encourage her to take a long hard look at her own behavior.  When the problems are everyone else's, you have to consider that you are the common denominator and discern whether you need to make changes.  I keep wondering if she just placates Nicole to try and get May back safely under her care.  Either way, she's doing no favors.  Nicole needs help and some self reflection. 

Quote

She is a nasty piece of work.  I truly feel awful for poor little May.

She sure is. It's not that someone couldn't knock her big butt out, though. She is only a bully until that happens. More than likely she has bullied family members because it looks like her mom is a bit timid around her. Her sister, however, looks like she has held her own, lol.

[balisticnikki]

1 hour ago, Kangatush said:

Definition of abuse - use (something) to bad effect or for a bad purpose; misuse, treat with cruelty or violence, especially regularly or repeatedly

Nicole has abused Azan.  Doesn't matter if he was physically hurt, doesn't matter if he invited her to Morocco, doesn't matter if other people have it worse.  

Putting your hands on someone out of anger is always wrong.  

Yes, putting your hands on someone is always wrong. But by your definition, I'm an abused woman bc someone gave me the finger on the freeway this morning. You're reaching. Azan isn't scared of her and she has no power over him as a woman in Morocco (w/ May), on the sidewalk outside of his apartment. He and his buddy are prbly laughing about it now at the café over a demitasse.

[Neurochick]

44 minutes ago, Normades said:

I agree that sometimes abuse has horrible consequences, however abuse is abuse.  Nicole is abusive and has shown typical abusive behavior in victim blaming.  Azan is a victim at this point whether he has a broken bone or not.  That is not melodrama it is the facts.  I would not want someone twice my size to grab my face, yell, chase me around, block my exit and bully me just to be told that I've not been abused and I'm being melodramatic.  It's scary to have someone big looming over you aggressively, even if you don't have residual physical damage.  No one should be treated that way and again I think if the tables were turned people would be up in arms calling for Azan's arrest.  I hope he doesn't ever see her again, but I imagine that from what has been said about her constant phone calls she will not make it easy for him.  If he did live near her I would bet that she would become a stalker.  She wants what she wants and no one should dare to say no.  Her mother told us all as much.

Didn't Azan say that Nicole was the reason he lost his job?  She kept calling him.  If Azan comes to the US, Nicole will never let him work.  If he does get a job, Nicole will constantly call him, check on him, etc.  What's interesting is that SHE was the one who cheated.  

See, I think that's more abusive than Nicole shoving Azan.  The woman shouldn't marry anybody.

Edited November 30, 2017 by Neurochick

[balisticnikki]

16 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

A thousand times this. As it was stated in the quote above and upthread a few times: if Azan were the one treating Nicole like this, all hell would break loose. Donald Trump might even be moved to tweet about Muslim violence against women. Abuse is abuse. The double standard here just blows my mind. 

And let's keep in mind that this Nicole on her best behavior IN FRONT OF CAMERAS! I  mean, OMG, what is she capable of when no on is looking and she on her home turf with all the control? This is not the first time we have seen her behave aggressively towards Azan. And it wasn't just one incident this time. She kept coming back at him with no shame or shock at her behavior. Azan didn't even look shocked. He crouched down and put his hands up ...like he had seen this all before and knew the drill. 

I don't know why Azan is with her or why he may still be with her. Lots of DV  victims have personal reasons for staying. Even though they may not have broken bones or reasons that we can understand, it does not negate their suffering or their status as victims of abuse. 

Nicole's attitudes, her emotional state, and frankly, her size make her a very dangerous person to anyone who gets in her way and does not give her exactly what she wants when she wants it. 

If she's beating him up when the cameras aren't there he needs to send her on her way. But he's not. He might even agree to a third season! lol

2 minutes ago, Neurochick said:

Didn't Azan say that Nicole was the reason he lost his job?  She kept calling him.  If Azan comes to the US, Nicole will never let him work.  If he does get a job, Nicole will constantly call him, check on him, etc.  What's interesting is that SHE was the one who cheated.  

See, I think that's more abusive than Nicole shoving Azan.  The woman shouldn't marry anybody.

His phone has no off button? Volume control? Mute feature? He can't leave it in the car? He's here for the drama.

22 minutes ago, Chickabiddy said:

A thousand times this. As it was stated in the quote above and upthread a few times: if Azan were the one treating Nicole like this, all hell would break loose. Donald Trump might even be moved to tweet about Muslim violence against women. Abuse is abuse. The double standard here just blows my mind. 

And let's keep in mind that this Nicole on her best behavior IN FRONT OF CAMERAS! I  mean, OMG, what is she capable of when no on is looking and she on her home turf with all the control? This is not the first time we have seen her behave aggressively towards Azan. And it wasn't just one incident this time. She kept coming back at him with no shame or shock at her behavior. Azan didn't even look shocked. He crouched down and put his hands up ...like he had seen this all before and knew the drill. 

I don't know why Azan is with her or why he may still be with her. Lots of DV  victims have personal reasons for staying. Even though they may not have broken bones or reasons that we can understand, it does not negate their suffering or their status as victims of abuse. 

Nicole's attitudes, her emotional state, and frankly, her size make her a very dangerous person to anyone who gets in her way and does not give her exactly what she wants when she wants it. 

He would def be wrong, too, if he shoved Nicole. It would happen once and she would send him packing or call the police.

[Neurochick]

Then again, Nicole and Azan may just be there for the drama, money and social media fame.  I mean TLC needs a new Dani and Mo.

[Bubbles1967]

11 hours ago, mamadrama said:

He COULD be a virgin in the technical sense. It happens. A good male friend of mine didn't lose his virginity until he was 28. He was very good looking, had a great job working for NASA, and witty. He was Italian, very passionate, and actually very sexual, but he'd never engaged in penetration. At first, he wanted to wait until he was married. He wasn't religious at all, just kind of romantic. However, he was so shy that he had trouble approaching women and forming relationships. (Do you watch CRIMINAL MINDS? Think Dr. Reid.). Eventually, his virginity became kind of a heavy weight hanging over his head. It was actually stressing him out and it became difficult for him to date because as soon as women found out that he was a virgin, they were turned off or something. They assumed there was something wrong with him. He eventually asked me to remedy that problem for him. As someone else who was in their 20s before having sex for the first time, I understood where he was coming from. I did it. :-) We'd known each other for 20 years and were good friends. About a month later, he met a lovely lady, started dating her, and they married a year later. He says that finally having sex actually gave him the confidence to ask her out. 

There are more virginal men in their 20s than people think. 

It isn't worth it. It costs several hundred dollars to get the work permit and it takes around 90 days to get it-sometimes more. We applied for my husband's work permit and it came through exactly one day before he got the green card. This seems to happen to most people. 

Good point since you know it from personal experience.  I guess I have the misperception. I always think women wait longer than men. I didn’t lose my virginity until I was 24. 

I wonder what  David’s problem is next week. He seems to have a problem with intimacy. He seemed to be so eager for the wedding night before.She seems a little more eager that little ho ?

My boyfriend and I watch the show together. I yell at the TV and my boyfriend says “uh huh” . He always tells me that the “Trainwreck” show is on. He agrees with me on everything. Nicole and Alan are the worst. We like Libby lips and AndreeeiiiiiiiI are the most likely to succeed. I say what the fuck a lot

Edited November 30, 2017 by Bubbles1967

[BeachyWave]

1 hour ago, Neurochick said:

Didn't Azan say that Nicole was the reason he lost his job?  She kept calling him. 

There’s this technique called “not answering the phone.” And blocking numbers.

[brillia79]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

Yes, putting your hands on someone is always wrong. But by your definition, I'm an abused woman bc someone gave me the finger on the freeway this morning. You're reaching. Azan isn't scared of her and she has no power over him as a woman in Morocco (w/ May), on the sidewalk outside of his apartment. He and his buddy are prbly laughing about it now at the café over a demitasse.

Does the freeway bird-flipper have a televised pattern of shoving/grabbing you, screaming at you or pressuring you for sex?

Everything Nicole is doing qualifies as verbal and physical abuse by every metric. It doesn't require a broken jawbone as the baseline. 

It also doesn't require the victim to be popular.

This is why people are reluctant to report. Because even with evidence, they won't be believed.

[Normades]

4 minutes ago, BeachyWave said:

There’s this technique called “not answering the phone.” And blocking numbers.

Do we know that she was calling HIS phone?  I've seen this happen where spurned lovers call the place of business or manager and is sure can get someone fired.  I don't know what happened in this case, but it is possible.

[Bubbles1967]

10 hours ago, CoachWristletJen said:

Good point. While not the sharpest knife in the drawer, by comparison, Antonio is like the wildly hot, much younger, handsomer brother of David. (Even though David is actually younger

Antonio was smoking hot.   Can’t remember her name(Gumby?) was a lucky girl. I think I need a cold shower.

Sorry Mod. Off topic but my mind wandered.

[tincansailor981]

5 hours ago, Bugfrey Von said:

Let’s begin with Evelyn and Pudgy Spanish David. There are little things that make me as gleeful as when I see Evelyn‘s jaw clench when David shuts her down ass down. She is a smug, self-satisfied asshole who thinks she has the world figured out at 18. She’s getting what she deserves and maybe she’ll learn from this and be a better person. She might be the belle of Claremont, but she ain’t shit anywhere outside of her zip code.  

Best comment yet on the those two. No, she doesn't want to leave Claremont for the very reason you stated: she aint shit anywhere else.  Real talk 

Edited November 30, 2017 by tincansailor981

[balisticnikki]

38 minutes ago, brillia79 said:

Does the freeway bird-flipper have a televised pattern of shoving/grabbing you, screaming at you or pressuring you for sex?

Everything Nicole is doing qualifies as verbal and physical abuse by every metric. It doesn't require a broken jawbone as the baseline. 

It also doesn't require the victim to be popular.

This is why people are reluctant to report. Because even with evidence, they won't be believed.

I fully concede she is guilty of assault. No question. However, ppl do need to take some personal accountability. In some situations, the aggrieved party can choose to walk away if they are concerned by it. Just like it's not hostile environment sexual harassment if you don't tell the asshole to stop.

 

No, I don't think there is any recording of my bird flipper...so I think I'll track him down and invite him over to my aunt's house so we can continue the dispute further.

35 minutes ago, Normades said:

Do we know that she was calling HIS phone?  I've seen this happen where spurned lovers call the place of business or manager and is sure can get someone fired.  I don't know what happened in this case, but it is possible.

But the police can work w/ the phone company to easily handle that.

*********************

^^^^^^^^^^^^^

*********************

Soooo if you could be with only one partner for the rest of your life (according to your own sexual orientation, not theirs) who on this season's 90 Day would you choose. Must be an adult. Who and why? Plz play along lol

Edited November 30, 2017 by balisticnikki

[Normades]

2 minutes ago, balisticnikki said:

I fully concede she is guilty of assault. No question. However, ppl do need to take some personal accountability. In some situations, the aggrieved party can choose to walk away if they are concerned by it. Just like it's not hostile environment sexual harassment if you don't tell the asshole to stop.

 

No, I don't think there is any recording of my bird flipper...so I think I'll track him down and invite him over to my aunt's house so we can continue the dispute further.

I'm glad you see that she has assaulted him, even if you don't want to categorize it as abuse.  In whose determination can the aggrieved party walk away??  It's not always easy.  There are psychological components to the issue and not everyone will see it the same way.

[balisticnikki]

11 minutes ago, Normades said:

I'm glad you see that she has assaulted him, even if you don't want to categorize it as abuse.  In whose determination can the aggrieved party walk away??  It's not always easy.  There are psychological components to the issue and not everyone will see it the same way.

But to use the H.E. sexual harassment analogy. Everyone will see that differently, too. Some will see it as harmless banter, Some will see it as horribly offensive, threatening and soul crushing. You have to use the "reasonable person or reasonable woman's standard." And part of that requires some effort/culpability on the part of the victim. In the H.E.S.H. situation, the victim must at least demand the behavior stop immediately and the victim must notify the authorities (human resources, commanding officer, police, etc.) if the victim is bothered by it.

In the case of Nicole and Azan, I think if Azan is truly bothered by it he can insist that she stop at once and tell the authorities.

Bc just like w/ sexual banter in the office, sexual propositioning, nudie posters, etc., some ppl don't really care about the slap and tickle, push and shove, etc. It might be annoying to Azan but not that big a deal. The victim's response to the behavior factors in to whether or not the behavior is actually abusive.

Edited November 30, 2017 by balisticnikki

[Baltimore Betty]

No matter how badly Nicole is treating Azan only he can break the pattern.  You teach people how to treat you, at some point Azan enabled her behavior by continuing this stupid relationship, he gave her a ring, he invited her back to Morocco, in fact he invited her back even after he knew when she hadn't lost weight or worked out, they probably fought by skype over stupid shit daily, he lost his job because she insisted on calling him all hours of his work shift...Azan could shut her down by breaking things off and send her and May packing. Every time he talks of marriage or a future it feeds the beast.  She knows no boundries, she is a bully and takes no responsibility for her actions.  

I would pay good money to see Aunt Azan tell her off in French. 

[Nowhere]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

 

Soooo if you could be with only one partner for the rest of your life (according to your own sexual orientation, not theirs) who on this season's 90 Day would you choose. Must be an adult. Who and why? Plz play along lol

Andrrrrrrrei. There aren't any other options, imo. The other men are disgusting in more ways than one. And I'm willing to give up clubs. 

[Gigglepuff]

1 hour ago, balisticnikki said:

Soooo if you could be with only one partner for the rest of your life (according to your own sexual orientation, not theirs) who on this season's 90 Day would you choose. Must be an adult. Who and why? Plz play along lol

Andrrrrrrei, first. He's not my type, but he's not bad looking.I don't go out much to clubs anymore anyway, and I think he'd be the type to be a hard worker. Azan second, he's got a nerdy factor that's sort of cute, and I don't think he's an ass. Plus, his family seems very nice and I'd have a good reason to go back and visit Morocco. I'd die celibate before having anything to do with David Poor or Josh. 

[brillia79]

3 hours ago, balisticnikki said:

Soooo if you could be with only one partner for the rest of your life (according to your own sexual orientation, not theirs) who on this season's 90 Day would you choose. Must be an adult. Who and why? Plz play along lol

None of the above. Why would I trade in my freedom or my bank account for maybe mediocre dick that expects me to "traditionally" do all the cooking and cleaning. Oh, and I live close enough to Virginia already.

Unless I can go back a season and snag Alexei or Devar, we've got nothing.

[DangerousMinds]

3 hours ago, Baltimore Betty said:

No matter how badly Nicole is treating Azan only he can break the pattern.  You teach people how to treat you, at some point Azan enabled her behavior by continuing this stupid relationship, he gave her a ring, he invited her back to Morocco, in fact he invited her back even after he knew when she hadn't lost weight or worked out, they probably fought by skype over stupid shit daily, he lost his job because she insisted on calling him all hours of his work shift...Azan could shut her down by breaking things off and send her and May packing. Every time he talks of marriage or a future it feeds the beast.  She knows no boundries, she is a bully and takes no responsibility for her actions.  

I would pay good money to see Aunt Azan tell her off in French. 

Thank you. 

[Arwen Evenstar]

4 hours ago, balisticnikki said:

Soooo if you could be with only one partner for the rest of your life (according to your own sexual orientation, not theirs) who on this season's 90 Day would you choose. Must be an adult. Who and why? Plz play along lol

All of the men are horrible choices. I would agree Andrei and Azan are likely the least offensive of the bunch. David Spain is also fairly easy on the eyes, but he’s such an uptight miserable git.

[Arwen Evenstar]

Nikki, please say we can choose men from any other season. Since I like Latinos, I might need to take Fun Spain Boy Antonio.  I kinda dig Pedro, as well as Devar.