S19.E02: Mood

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Quote

The bizarre details of a woman's rape put the SVU at odds when Rollins and Carisi think her story is fabricated. Meanwhile, Benson goes on the offensive when her personal life is scrutinized.

[QueenMab]

Scrutinize her personal life and all they come up with is child abuse? But 18 years of unethical, unprofessional hookups with her male coworkers is just fine?

[dttruman]

It didn't take long for Benson to make her "holier than thou speech" and she resents the investigator doing her job. As mention from comments from last weeks episode, the actions that led up to this were poorly depicted. Benson is now becoming overly critical of everybody. Is this suppose to be about a rape investigation or is it about Benson doing a personal investigation. I think I have seen more individually scenes of Benson interacting with the rape victim. Why isn't the girl being helped by a rape counselor? Ut Oh, are they going to turn a supposedly good character  "Cassidy" into a bad one like they did with "Dana Lewis". Have the writers or anyone else come up with a plausible reason why Benson  is spending so much time out of her office with these investigations?

There are no spoilers!!! I just don't how to delete them

Spoiler

Spoiler

 

 

Edited October 5, 2017 by dttruman

[SuzieQ]

I thought we were done with Brian drama?  Total gagfest!

[Gigglepuff]

How is Benson not suspended right now? I get that she's innocent of the child abuse allegations, but the higher ups at NYPD don't know that for sure. She is in charge of SVU for goodness sake! Wouldn't it be sort of a major conflict of interest to have her in active duty while she's being investigated? 

[RafaelBarba35]

5 minutes ago, Gigglepuff said:

How is Benson not suspended right now? I get that she's innocent of the child abuse allegations, but the higher ups at NYPD don't know that for sure. She is in charge of SVU for goodness sake! Wouldn't it be sort of a major conflict of interest to have her in active duty while she's being investigated? 

It's Saint Benson. Even if she was she would be back in the next episode. Just like Unholiest Alliance. One of my faves because less Benson

[Xeliou66]

This episode was actually a lot better than I expected, I enjoyed it.

For once, we had a case where it wasn't a he said/she said with rich white people, it was a classic serial rapist case where we didn't know the perps identity and it took detective work by everyone to figure it out. I also liked that they let Carisi, Fin and Rollins do most of the detective work, while Benson took a backseat. I liked how Benson didn't even participate in the ending chase of the perp, it was Carisi, Rollins and Fin. I also like how they had Rollins talk the victim and talk to the perp on the roof, instead of St Benson. 

No Barba sucked, but I didn't really miss him as much because the case didn't require him really and they used everyone else a lot. 

The first woman clearly had psychological issues and needed therapy. I was a bit confused if the rape she reported to her boss was the same Prince Charming rapist or if it was a made up accusation, I'm thinking it was the same one but I'm a little confused. This is one case where I really missed Dr Huang, having him talk to the victim and analyze the case would've shed a lot of insight and helped SVU, he added so much to the show, I really miss him. 

Olivia was annoying as always and her self righteous attitude with the DA investigator and the cop at the other precinct was really hypocritical, she's screwed up many times and she would be asking the same questions if she were in the shoes of the DA investigator so get off your high horse Olivia. And Mariska's acting was terrible as always, and the whole plot is exceptionally stupid, and yeah Benson should be on leave. 

I don't know if they are going this route, but I would love to see them make Cassidy a shady guy. He's always come across as rather sleazy and inept, and I've never liked him at all, that would actually be a good story if he had gone bad. 

Overall I was surprised and enjoyed the episode. This season is off to a nice start, the case in this episode felt like one from SVU's best seasons, and I think Churnuchin will improve this show greatly this season. 

[Danielg342]

"He's 95 and healthy"
"Except for the diabetes"
"Yeah, well, where I come from, diabetes is nothing but a head cold."

Gotta love Fin.

I thought this was a great episode. Maybe I'm not experienced enough with Olivia Benson to find her annoying, because I thought she really shone tonight.

The real bright spots, though, was seeing her underlings- Carisi, Rollins and Fin- do a lot of the heavy lifting, with Benson in more of a support role. The show can sometimes forget that they're there and need to be used, and when they're given the spotlight, they work wonders.

I also really enjoyed the case. I was nearly fooled into thinking Savannah Ross made the whole thing up, and I might have believed Ross made the whole thing up before the twist happened if I didn't see that opening scene where the older woman was raped. Sometimes, less is more, writers. Still, Saxon Sharbino really brought out the best in Ross, and the case construction still had me guessing for the most part, which far too few "whodunnits" accomplish these days, so good job writers.

[Josette]

This seems to be inspired by the real-life story of serial rapist Marc O'Leary.  48 Hours did an episode on the case.  He also had a victim who wasn't believed.

[WendyCR72]

My only comment/question is as above: Olivia is being investigated for child abuse. Of course, she didn't, but the NYPD doesn't know that.

So why the hell is she not on paid leave pending the outcome? Hell, even if the time was largely skipped, at least the CI star equivalent, Goren, was suspended for some infarction for 6 months.

When did this franchise decide some reality is a bad thing?

[WineCheeseChocolat]

I liked the case, but what I hated was that Rollins made the very valid point that Benson tends to take the victim’s side based on TakingItPersonally based on her own past victimizations (like going after the Marine after Sealview and going after the choir teacher after Lewis without even considering the guys were innocent) and then she ended up being wrong when St Olivia was right.

As far as the Benoah/Bensidy drama, I’m over it. But I didn’t think Cassidy was trying to get her in trouble as much as he was trying to impress how STRONG! and BRAVE! she was during Lewis saga but he pulled a typical Cassidy doofus moment and said too much. Either way, zzzzzz. 

[Irlandesa]

It irritates me that they literally brought Cassidy back so they could give her an extra sense of personal betrayal on top of her personal persecution and the case allows her to take. it. personally!  Ugh.  It's the classic "we think personal strife is the only way we can think of to get you to care about the character" form of storytelling that usually backfires with me.  They shouldn't need to go there after so many years.  I care much more about competent policing than personal stories.  (Man this makes me miss the mothership so much.)

Otherwise, I did like the case. 

Edited October 5, 2017 by Irlandesa

[HunterHunted]

33 minutes ago, Irlandesa said:

It irritates me that they literally brought Cassidy back so they could give her an extra sense of personal betrayal on top of her personal persecution and the case allows her to take. it. personally!  Ugh.  It's the classic "we think personal strife is the only way we can think of you to get you to care about the character" form of storytelling that usually backfires with me.  They shouldn't need to go there after so many years.  I care much more about competent policing than personal stories.  (Man this makes me miss the mothership so much.)

It really highlights the weaknesses of the character and the actress that the show has to go to these lengths to make us care about what happens to Olivia.

[Laurie4H]

Fin and Carisi finds stars next to the women the guy raped and there is one name they arent familiar with, and it just happens that they are able to stop it at the same time he find the list?  Come on.

[CelticBlackCat]

I'm wondering if Cassidy is trying to sabotage Olivia's life because they broke up.  He always seemed to be immature to me, so maybe he found a way to pay her back for dumping him or letting him go?

Very interesting story about the Prince Charming rapist.  As usual, the guest actors were really good.  I was glad to see Fin, Rollins and Carisi back in action!

[mamadrama]

As a former social worker, it took me a lot of suspension of disbelief to buy the "child abuse" sub plot. We were, and they still are, highly overworked and understaffed. When a new case comes in, the intake worker would investigate the allegations by visiting the home after talking to the person who turned them in. In our office, which was fairly big, the investigation would've stopped right there at the door. There are quite a few things workers look for in the very beginning but, clearly, safety is the first. Is the home clean? Does the child have adequate food in the house, a place to play, a place to sleep, etc? Is the child clean? Have there been past reports of abuse? To be honest, after talking to Benson for 10 minutes, the case would've been closed. ONE set of bruises, and no previous abuse allegations, would barely get past a cursory investigation from us. The bruises on his arm would've corresponded with her story and that would've been enough; a simple phone call to his pediatrician would've wrapped things up. 

I guess it just frustrates me when there are plots like this because they're contrived. There are SO many abused and neglected kids out there-families who need ongoing care and actual assistance from social workers. I've seen abuse and neglect that would make your stomach turn. The fact that so much time and attention was wasted on Benson irks me. Of course, it's also good because it shows that ANYONE can be investigated (another thing that scared the hell out of me-I got to where I was nervous around my own co-workers, ha ha). 

[sockii]

Except for the Olivia and Noah drama, I enjoyed watching this one quite a bit. Maybe more than I've enjoyed watching an SVU episode in a long time. My SO even managed to stay awake through all of it, and stay engaged in the story, which is a rarity for him with the more recent seasons.

As was mentioned up-thread, this really had the feeling of an old school SVU episode to me. There were actual elements of mystery and action here: was the first victim telling the truth? Then finding out about the second victim. The hunt for clues and the chase at the end. These are the elements of SVU storytelling that I so have missed (in comparison to spending an entire 40 minutes knowing exactly what happened and having it all be about Benson giving a victim the "you must testify for closure!" speech.) All the detectives played a near equal part in the hunt and Benson at least SOMETIMES stayed in her office like a CO actually would.

In fact speaking of old school, did anyone else think it even specifically had a lot of similarities to the rape case/victim in Closure (1+2)? A victim at odds with Benson; a pattern rapist; jewelry taken from victims ending up being a major clue. Oh, and even Brian drama since part 1 was the episode where they had their one-night stand. Hmm...

I guess we're supposed to just ret-con all of that about Fin taking the sergeant's exam, am I right? Because at the end of last season they WERE calling him sergeant at least, and now they're not. We're told (not in the actual episode but in articles elsewhere) that he "chose to stay at SVU instead of taking the promotion". So basically we're hand-waving it all away just like they did with Olivia's drinking problem after the end of season 17, right? Sigh.

With Brian—I thought this was more a clueless Brian mistake than something malicious on his part. I don't want to see him used or turned into a bad guy when he's just...well to me he used to be kind of lovably dumb.

[wknt3]

The Good:
Fin! I LOLed when he was talking about his 95 year old grandfather. And he was used well throughout the episode. Loved him with PUA guy too.
The script. It was probably the best since Season 17. Nothing really new, just a well done variation on an old theme.
Good acting from the guest cast with the exception of the investigator although I suspect that was a matter of the writing. It feels like the writers didn't care about this scene. I'm with you writers.
The whole squad was involved for the second week in a row! It was such a team effort that Liv even brought back up to a potential hostage situation! And the final confrontation with the perp was handled by Rollins and Carisi!
The mixture of Benoah to case was much better this week. Ideally it would be zero, but I can live with a couple scenes a week.
Barba's week off was handled well. I didn't miss him too much and his presence wouldn't have added anything plot-wise.

The Bad:
Benoah.
For the millionth time can we please get a receptionist? How is it that anyone can just walk into this squad room?
Benoah.
St. Benson the only one who believes the victims despite all evidence to the contrary and is proven correct. Maybe this is too Neal Baer for TPTB but what about a classic SVU twist? What if the initial complaintant was scamming them, but using a friend's real story that they were too scared to tell the police? What if Benson was actually wrong and the rest of the squad was right? You can do a false accusation without buying into all the toxic rape culture tropes.
Benoah.
Have I mentioned how much I hate this Benoah crap? Oh I guess I have. I thought they did a decent job with Cassidy this week though.

Overall this was another step forward. Everyone was in character and used well. It had an old school SVU feel and the writing was solid again. Take away the Benson personal stuff and it's better than that. I think this is the first time since the first half of Season 17 that we've had two good scripts in a row. If we can keep Benoah to 'annoying running subplot" and keep up the level of writing for the cases this could be the best season in years. Now how will Mariska, NBC, etc. screw it up?
 

[wknt3]

18 hours ago, WendyCR72 said:

My only comment/question is as above: Olivia is being investigated for child abuse. Of course, she didn't, but the NYPD doesn't know that.

So why the hell is she not on paid leave pending the outcome? Hell, even if the time was largely skipped, at least the CI star equivalent, Goren, was suspended for some infarction for 6 months.

When did this franchise decide some reality is a bad thing?

The exact moment?

 

Of course they changed their minds again and decided some reality was a good thing during Season 13. They still believe some reality is a good thing just not for Benson. That ship sailed back in Season 16 or so.

Edited October 5, 2017 by wknt3

[Gigglepuff]

I enjoyed the episode and like others mentioned, it felt more like an old-school SVU episode. The acting was good overall. The main cast were in good form (aside from MH's overacting again), and the guests were good. The younger woman who played Savannah didn't impress me as much as the older woman and her daughter though. Those two were excellent. Fin, Rollins, and Carisi were all good and used very well this week. I'm not the biggest Carisi fan (normally), but I enjoyed him this week and I though Peter was excellent in the scene where the suspect fell. 

 

(Speaking of acting. Did anyone else read the article where they suggested that Mariska gave a performance that the television academy should watch? The scene where she was being interviewed about the abuse allegations was cringe worthy! She was awful and I don't see how or why anyone is suggesting that she gave an Emmy worthy performance! What's going on? Why is smoke continually blown up this woman's ass? It's clear that she believes her own hype too. Remember a few moths ago when Dick Wold proclaimed that Benson was the "longest running cop and longest running female character in the HISTORY of television"? That, combined with the recent articles about how MH doesn't know where she ends and Benson begins, and some of the storylines where Benson alone is the hero....I don't know. I guess she really does have a huge ego.) 

 

Enough Benoah drama, please!! (The new Noah is cute, but no way is that kid four.) Can we drop the whole abuse allegations now, please?  I was super annoyed with the way Benson treated the woman investigating her. Surely she should know that the investigator was doing her job. Liv came across as guilty to me with her overly defensive behaviour. Why, why, why didn't Liv address the woman by her title and show her some respect? A suspect would never get away with calling Benson by her first name in an interview. Why does she get away with it? Oh, and again, how is she not suspended?

 

The whole Cassidy screwed up and went on about how great and wonderful Liv and accidentally triggered the child abuse investigation was weak, probably the weakest link in an otherwise decent episode. 

[JyDanzig]

I'm a little worried about the quality split in these first two episodes!  As others have mentioned, the rape story was a huge improvement over what we've been getting.  I'm worried by how broadly written the incidental characters along the way were (the pick-up artist and the rapists mom stand out as particularly false and contrived), but I could put them in the "so bad it's good" category, so that's OK -- for now -- as long as it doesn't get worse in future episodes.  But structure-wise, leaps ahead of where we've been.  Like last week, they focused in the right way and told a story of the right size.  Satisfyingly twisty but not overstuffed.  The full squad involvement alone does wonders to help this show work better.

But this Noah thing!  Holy hell, what an embarrassingly awful mess on every level!

I should stay that I don't have this aversion to the Benson personal drama that everyone else does.  Benson personal drama is fundamentally in the DNA of the show, it's always going to be there.  I've enjoyed it in the past and there's no reason they couldn't do a personal drama story well.

But this is a disaster.  Terrible writing, terrible acting, flimsy idea that doesn't support a multiple episode (or full season?!?) arc.  Every moment of character reaction from every player involved rings completely false.  That Cassidy scene -- who knew one scene could be so incoherent on so many levels at once?  This story is just painfully bad -- if it continues this way, it really has potential to be the worst creative misfire in the history of the whole L&O franchise.

[vast wasteland]

Quote

What if Benson was actually wrong and the rest of the squad was right? 

Has this ever happened?  I can't remember a time, but my memory is as bad as Mariska's acting.?

[HunterHunted]

6 hours ago, wknt3 said:

St. Benson the only one who believes the victims despite all evidence to the contrary and is proven correct. Maybe this is too Neal Baer for TPTB but what about a classic SVU twist? What if the initial complaintant was scamming them, but using a friend's real story that they were too scared to tell the police? What if Benson was actually wrong and the rest of the squad was right? You can do a false accusation without buying into all the toxic rape culture tropes.

Yes! I wish the show was currently smart and nuanced enough to have interesting writing in the way you described. It's not. 

[dttruman]

7 hours ago, wknt3 said:

The Good:
Fin! I LOLed when he was talking about his 95 year old grandfather. And he was used well throughout the episode. Loved him with PUA guy too.
The script. It was probably the best since Season 17. Nothing really new, just a well done variation on an old theme.
Good acting from the guest cast with the exception of the investigator although I suspect that was a matter of the writing. It feels like the writers didn't care about this scene. I'm with you writers.
The whole squad was involved for the second week in a row! It was such a team effort that Liv even brought back up to a potential hostage situation! And the final confrontation with the perp was handled by Rollins and Carisi!
The mixture of Benoah to case was much better this week. Ideally it would be zero, but I can live with a couple scenes a week.
Barba's week off was handled well. I didn't miss him too much and his presence wouldn't have added anything plot-wise.

The Bad:
Benoah.
For the millionth time can we please get a receptionist? How is it that anyone can just walk into this squad room?
Benoah.
St. Benson the only one who believes the victims despite all evidence to the contrary and is proven correct. Maybe this is too Neal Baer for TPTB but what about a classic SVU twist? What if the initial complaintant was scamming them, but using a friend's real story that they were too scared to tell the police? What if Benson was actually wrong and the rest of the squad was right? You can do a false accusation without buying into all the toxic rape culture tropes.
Benoah.
Have I mentioned how much I hate this Benoah crap? Oh I guess I have. I thought they did a decent job with Cassidy this week though.

Overall this was another step forward. Everyone was in character and used well. It had an old school SVU feel and the writing was solid again. Take away the Benson personal stuff and it's better than that. I think this is the first time since the first half of Season 17 that we've had two good scripts in a row. If we can keep Benoah to 'annoying running subplot" and keep up the level of writing for the cases this could be the best season in years. Now how will Mariska, NBC, etc. screw it up?
 

Did you or anybody  else think that Rollins or maybe even Carisi was going to surrender their firearms when they confronted the rapists? I had the feeling Rollins would say something to the effect "I am putting my gun away, let's talk." and in a normal situation the guy would just shoot the cop.

[MorbidPet]

16 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

This episode was actually a lot better than I expected, I enjoyed it.

Overall I was surprised and enjoyed the episode. This season is off to a nice start, the case in this episode felt like one from SVU's best seasons, and I think Churnuchin will improve this show greatly this season. 

I agree. I went in thinking I would hate it and really had to talk myself in to a better mood before turning the tv on and ended up quite liking the episode. I could definitely do without the Benoah drama. And without Benson. But this 2nd episode did a better job not letting it infest the entire episode. I'm not quite ready to let Churnuchin out of the pillory just yet tho, he still has some proving to do ;)

The case was good, guest stars decent, some great Fin & Rollins moments, some okay Carisi moments. They should use Barba in every episode tho, or bring on another detective, cause the squad room feels empty. For Jesses´ sake I guess I wouldn't recommend Amanda trying to talk a suspect with a gun down from a wet roof top but she did look great doing it so I'll let it slide, and she kicked down a door and went head to head with Benson so again I'm fine with her. Oh what the heck, Annie Frost is my spirit animal so I can't dislike Amanda/Kelli even when they write her poorly.

Regarding Cassidy I did prefer him as a douche back in the day but they sorta turned his character and he left on a good note with Liv, at least that's what it looked like to me (and I paid close attention to that ending scene as I was really delighted as the Bensidy ship felt so forced & cringe worthy), so I don't buy him turning on her. But then again she's apparently the world to anyone who's life she's touched!? I heard he was only signed for two episodes so far so I'm hoping they won't drag that plot out. And I think I'll have enough scenes to barf over as I can't really see any other reason for Shields´ character than more Benoah drama *insert eye rolling emoji*

Oh shucks here I came in being somewhat positive and I had to spoil it by talking Benoah/Bensidy :P

Fin had fun lines. Action on roof tops. Frannie (and not Jesse) peed on Amanda's rug. Rapist was splattered. = good episode. And that leaves me on a positive note.

[wknt3]

4 hours ago, JyDanzig said:

I'm worried by how broadly written the incidental characters along the way were (the pick-up artist and the rapists mom stand out as particularly false and contrived), but I could put them in the "so bad it's good" category, so that's OK -- for now -- as long as it doesn't get worse in future episodes. 

I disagree about the mom. Different tastes, whatever. I would argue that PUA guy was intentionally broadly written in classic SVU (and even mothership) tradition. They have always had incidental characters who are fairly shallow and one-note usually played as comic relief. NYC IRL has plenty of shallow people and plenty of self-caricatures who you would probably find as unconvincing and unbelievable, especially in a limited interaction. I have met a couple of PUAs (not by choice believe me) and thought they nailed it pretty well.

Quote

But this Noah thing!  Holy hell, what an embarrassingly awful mess on every level!

I should stay that I don't have this aversion to the Benson personal drama that everyone else does.  Benson personal drama is fundamentally in the DNA of the show, it's always going to be there.  I've enjoyed it in the past and there's no reason they couldn't do a personal drama story well.

But this is a disaster.  Terrible writing, terrible acting, flimsy idea that doesn't support a multiple episode (or full season?!?) arc.  Every moment of character reaction from every player involved rings completely false.  That Cassidy scene -- who knew one scene could be so incoherent on so many levels at once?  This story is just painfully bad -- if it continues this way, it really has potential to be the worst creative misfire in the history of the whole L&O franchise.

I agree with you on how painfully bad this is. However it has quite a way to go before it can be considered a serious contender for the worst creative misfire in the history of the whole L&O franchise. Or even just SVU. Once again let me remind you:

[Gigglepuff]

Hey!! Monkey ball incident was the best! I'd rather see Cragen and that monkey than Benoah drama. 

[dttruman]

20 hours ago, Gigglepuff said:

How is Benson not suspended right now? I get that she's innocent of the child abuse allegations, but the higher ups at NYPD don't know that for sure. She is in charge of SVU for goodness sake! Wouldn't it be sort of a major conflict of interest to have her in active duty while she's being investigated? 

It's the writers overdoing it again (maybe on the orders of Hargitay). They want the situation to be so dramatic, that viewers will be so sympathetic towards her. The only problem is, it loses it's realism. Viewers will only let the writers stretch their dramatic license so far.

[JyDanzig]

1 hour ago, wknt3 said:

I agree with you on how painfully bad this is. However it has quite a way to go before it can be considered a serious contender for the worst creative misfire in the history of the whole L&O franchise. Or even just SVU. Once again let me remind you:

This is a Trash TV accomplishment for the ages!  It's so perfectly gonzo.  They were not intending to make a brilliant comedy with this hour, but they did, which is it's own success.  And this episode is imminently rewatchable, I have seen it sooooooooooo many times.  Honestly there's only three specific SVU eps I have deliberately watched again and again, and they are "Wildlife", "Guilt", and "Doubt."

Whereas this current Benson story... ugh.  It's just so awkwardly and joylessly executed, it's not even campy fun.

28 minutes ago, dttruman said:

It's the writers overdoing it again (maybe on the orders of Hargitay). They want the situation to be so dramatic, that viewers will be so sympathetic towards her. The only problem is, it loses it's realism. Viewers will only let the writers stretch their dramatic license so far.

One way they might save it is if it's revealed to be some dastardly revenge plan from a past enemy.  That could explain how this total nothing of an "incident" is escalating so dramatically.  That doesn't seem to be at all where they're headed with this... it really seems like just garden-variety bad writing of a dumb idea... but maybe!  I live in hope.

Edited October 5, 2017 by JyDanzig

[Xeliou66]

Cragen/Monkey never gets old, that was so over the top it was hilarious. Benson and Noah just gets so tiresome, no one likes this storyline, everyone thinks it is poorly written, even most Benson fans dislike it. It's clear that the one person who does like is Mariska, because she thinks that the show should be all about her and her agenda, and she wants to portray a perfect saintly Mommy Benson who is always right and everyone else is always wrong. I'm so sick of everything taking a back seat to the trials and tribulations of Saint Olivia. 

[WendyCR72]

I know this is unpopular. But Stabler leaving really pushed Olivia's issues to overdrive. I know Stabler's own family also hogged things, but at least it seemed like it was still an ensemble show, having to divide his issues along with Olivia's, and other characters got some play.

Once MH/Olivia became the de facto solo lead, any ensemble seemed to fall apart.

[Kel Varnsen]

Not a bad episode, although I wish we could have gotten more information as to why Savannah couldn't give a straight answer when people asked questions. Why did she say maybe she dreamed it all?

18 hours ago, Laurie4H said:

Fin and Carisi finds stars next to the women the guy raped and there is one name they arent familiar with, and it just happens that they are able to stop it at the same time he find the list?  Come on.

And of course even though there are like 40,000 police officers in NY the first ones who get to the apartment are SVU detectives (with no uniform back up even).

22 hours ago, Xeliou66 said:

I don't know if they are going this route, but I would love to see them make Cassidy a shady guy. He's always come across as rather sleazy and inept, and I've never liked him at all, that would actually be a good story if he had gone bad. 

I wonder if it is just because Dean Winters plays assholes so well. I wouldn't call him type cast because he can play lots of different roles well, but when I see I still am reminded of Ryan O'Reilly and Beeper King Dennis Duffy.

[Poohbear617]

Ok, so they aged Noah about 3 years..couldn't they have gotten one who could act? This kids delivery is atrocious. Over the years SVU has had some really good child guest stars.  Myou personal favorite will be the little boy named Tommy, who watched his dad rape and murder his stepmom Jill whom he was abusing. That little boy broke my heart, this new Noah can't act his way out of a paper bag.

[JyDanzig]

On 10/4/2017 at 11:21 PM, Laurie4H said:

Fin and Carisi finds stars next to the women the guy raped and there is one name they arent familiar with, and it just happens that they are able to stop it at the same time he find the list?  Come on.

That did feel like a classic SVU moment, though.  I feel like I saw the same exact scene played by Munch back around season 3-ish time...

They might as well have just done an insert shot of a "TO RAPE" list, with the first two victims names crossed out at the top and the next victim's name beneath.  Just as plausible!

[dttruman]

On 10/5/2017 at 7:43 PM, JyDanzig said:

This is a Trash TV accomplishment for the ages!  It's so perfectly gonzo.  They were not intending to make a brilliant comedy with this hour, but they did, which is it's own success.  And this episode is imminently rewatchable, I have seen it sooooooooooo many times.  Honestly there's only three specific SVU eps I have deliberately watched again and again, and they are "Wildlife", "Guilt", and "Doubt."

Whereas this current Benson story... ugh.  It's just so awkwardly and joylessly executed, it's not even campy fun.

One way they might save it is if it's revealed to be some dastardly revenge plan from a past enemy.  That could explain how this total nothing of an "incident" is escalating so dramatically.  That doesn't seem to be at all where they're headed with this... it really seems like just garden-variety bad writing of a dumb idea... but maybe!  I live in hope.

The only logical reason I can think of why they are doing this is, if they put Benson's parenting in question (they are doing it badly, by the way). Then they can bring in a relative of the natural father to fight for custody.

[wknt3]

On 10/5/2017 at 7:43 PM, JyDanzig said:

This is a Trash TV accomplishment for the ages!  It's so perfectly gonzo.  They were not intending to make a brilliant comedy with this hour, but they did, which is it's own success.  And this episode is imminently rewatchable, I have seen it sooooooooooo many times.  Honestly there's only three specific SVU eps I have deliberately watched again and again, and they are "Wildlife", "Guilt", and "Doubt."

Whereas this current Benson story... ugh.  It's just so awkwardly and joylessly executed, it's not even campy fun.

I agree that this plot is boring and some of the previous times they went off the rails were more fun. But some were both worse than this snooze inducing ego stroking steaming pile of garbage (IMHO) and went farther off target. Just recently I would say Rollins' family and personal life was a bigger misfire, requiring them to devote entire episodes to hitting the reset button. Going back and sticking just to SVU there are other stinkers like Chester Lake, the Poochie of the L&O universe, and other plots from Seasons 10-12 that went past "so bad it's good" back into "so bad it's really bad," that I would personally classify as bigger misfires. If you wanted to argue that Benoah in it's entirety is the biggest misfire I think you'd have a better case.

[ForeverAlone]

Hmmm...I am of multiple minds on this episode, because there was stuff I liked about it, and stuff that just left me frustrated. I did like that the case initially started with a victim who wasn't credible. The team had every right to be skeptical about Savannah's claims, because there was a lot of stuff that caused a lot of doubt. I think it would have been better for the viewer if we hadn't been shown the opening scene with the aftermath of the Nancy Burns' rape. If that wasn't shown, it would have been easier for the audience to really doubt Savannah's credibility, and it would have been a bigger surprise when we found out that she was telling the truth the entire time. But since we knew there was another rape victim out there, we knew at some point that the team would realize what was going on. I thought the case itself was interesting, and I enjoyed the way the team investigated and determined who was the rapist. I especially liked Dominic (I refuse to call him Sonny) and Fin working together, because they seemed to be doing the bulk of the heavy lifting investigating. I liked Amanda's initial skepticism, because that is in keeping with her character, and I liked that her contriteness at the end didn't feel over the top or sugary. She made a judgement call, and it turned out to be wrong. That is the whole point of these investigations- to determine the truth about a victim's claims.

However, there were definitely aspects of the episode I felt were weak. It would have been interesting from a psychological aspect (because I also watch psychological thriller crime shows) to explore even a little bit, why his victim choice was a bit over the map. Typically speaking, it seems like the more power assertive rapists (of which he would likely have been considered) have a more fixed fantasy. Yes, I realize this show is not Criminal Minds (though I love that show from its early years), but it is still interesting when the show even touches upon that aspect during its investigation (one of the reasons Dr. Huang is sorely missed at times like these). I am also not a fan of elaborate chase scenes in my crime procedurals, so I wasn't really feeling the final chase. And I really felt that the breaking in to save the final victim was eye roll worthy. I mean, a LT and one detective, without SWAT or any other sort of backup, just roll up on the victim's apartment themselves? Come the hell on! That was dangerous and stupid but I guess the writers wanted to show Olivia and Amanda as badass heroes. Whatever.

And I am REALLY not feeling the Olivia Benoah personal drama. It seems like a poorly conceived story with the sole purpose of giving Mariska some scenery to overchew. None of it made any real sense. The whole explanation of how Brian Cassidy apparently and inadvertently put this all into motion just felt false. We had not seen him since towards the end of season 15, and we had no real indication Olivia and Brian stayed in contact. So how would he have really known what she was like as a mother or what were her struggles? And the whole William Lewis retread was another thing. A good chunk of that probably would have been in her file to begin with, so that is not eyebrow raising in the slightest. If the show wants to give Olivia some personal drama, can't it at least be interesting and well written personal drama, and not warmed over leftovers from previous seasons? 

Overall, these first two episodes make me like season 19 more than season 18. I think Michael Chernuchin brings a stronger case writing background back to the show and from that perspective the stories are much stronger, better plotted and better written. However, the Olivia stuff is like what I hated the most about the Warren Leight years (but from a case perspective, I love more episodes from 13-17 than dislike). Since this probably won't go away anytime soon, I'll just resign myself to tuning out the Olivia drama and focus more on the cases and the rest of the team. 

Edited October 8, 2017 by ForeverAlone

[shapeshifter]

Thanks to everyone upthread who said this was worth watching. I had to work when it aired and wasn't going to bother catching this episode because of the "Benoah" drama. Now I see that arc as possibly (pretty please?) a way to feature the other actors while Olivia is dealing with the fallout offscreen. Yeah, not really, but anyway…

When the perp fell to his death, Peter Scanavino managed to convey more emotion in a few seconds of body language than anyone else did in the whole 42 minutes. On the opposite end of the acting spectrum: Oy, the actress who played the 20-year-old victim—do they still have elocution schools in NYC?

The script did a good/great job of including all the necessary parts in an effective, balanced manner within the time constraints. It would have been more realistic to have that sort of perp's activities developing and becoming known to law enforcement over seasons rather than minutes, but then it would be like Red John from The Mentalist, and I hated that arc. So I guess I prefer the Readers Digest version of the serial rapist/killer story. The real plot point was about victims and how they are seen and see themselves, which could have been a little more developed —maybe if the guest actress had better skills.

[spunky]

On 10/5/2017 at 4:03 AM, mamadrama said:

As a former social worker, it took me a lot of suspension of disbelief to buy the "child abuse" sub plot. We were, and they still are, highly overworked and understaffed. When a new case comes in, the intake worker would investigate the allegations by visiting the home after talking to the person who turned them in. In our office, which was fairly big, the investigation would've stopped right there at the door. There are quite a few things workers look for in the very beginning but, clearly, safety is the first. Is the home clean? Does the child have adequate food in the house, a place to play, a place to sleep, etc? Is the child clean? Have there been past reports of abuse? To be honest, after talking to Benson for 10 minutes, the case would've been closed. ONE set of bruises, and no previous abuse allegations, would barely get past a cursory investigation from us. The bruises on his arm would've corresponded with her story and that would've been enough; a simple phone call to his pediatrician would've wrapped things up. 

I guess it just frustrates me when there are plots like this because they're contrived. There are SO many abused and neglected kids out there-families who need ongoing care and actual assistance from social workers. I've seen abuse and neglect that would make your stomach turn. The fact that so much time and attention was wasted on Benson irks me. Of course, it's also good because it shows that ANYONE can be investigated (another thing that scared the hell out of me-I got to where I was nervous around my own co-workers, ha ha). 

As a fellow Social Worker, I was rolling my eyes at the "investigation".

[shksabelle]

Did Rollins sell her child??  I may be misremembering but I don't recall her getting calls or texts from whomever watches her child. Yet this week she gets a call from her DOG WALKER. And she was going home to clean up the mess??? If I am paying someone to walk my dog, and he/she doesn't follow the schedule, guess who is going to do the cleanup?

[CelticBlackCat]

I can't imagine that a NYC cop is going to run home while on duty to tend to a dog mess.  I'm sure his or her boss would have something to say about that.  Rollins probably has the child in day care but the dog stays home.  Time to get a new dog walker!

[dttruman]

On 10/8/2017 at 10:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

Thanks to everyone upthread who said this was worth watching. I had to work when it aired and wasn't going to bother catching this episode because of the "Benoah" drama. Now I see that arc as possibly (pretty please?) a way to feature the other actors while Olivia is dealing with the fallout offscreen. Yeah, not really, but anyway…

When the perp fell to his death, Peter Scanavino managed to convey more emotion in a few seconds of body language than anyone else did in the whole 42 minutes. On the opposite end of the acting spectrum: Oy, the actress who played the 20-year-old victim—do they still have elocution schools in NYC?

The script did a good/great job of including all the necessary parts in an effective, balanced manner within the time constraints. It would have been more realistic to have that sort of perp's activities developing and becoming known to law enforcement over seasons rather than minutes, but then it would be like Red John from The Mentalist, and I hated that arc. So I guess I prefer the Readers Digest version of the serial rapist/killer story. The real plot point was about victims and how they are seen and see themselves, which could have been a little more developed —maybe if the guest actress had better skills.

When Carisi and Rollins prevented the last rape and pursued the perp, did all that seem like it was rushed (or more like rushed on purpose)? To me, it seemed like they had to do that so they could give more time for that Benson and Cassidy meeting.

[Gigglepuff]

On 10/8/2017 at 9:46 AM, shapeshifter said:

When the perp fell to his death, Peter Scanavino managed to convey more emotion in a few seconds of body language than anyone else did in the whole 42 minutes. On the opposite end of the acting spectrum: Oy, the actress who played the 20-year-old victim—do they still have elocution schools in NYC?

Very well said and so true. That actress was - not good. I rolled my eyes when I first saw her and thought, "here we go, another pretty, young, white victim," but the episode got better. I found her dialogue to be very awkward in parts. "I have one of those faces." She said that more than once, strange to me. 

Peter Scanavino did more acting in those seconds than MH has done in years! 

[katisha]

On 06/10/2017 at 0:53 PM, Poohbear617 said:

Ok, so they aged Noah about 3 years..couldn't they have gotten one who could act? This kids delivery is atrocious. Over the years SVU has had some really good child guest stars.  Myou personal favorite will be the little boy named Tommy, who watched his dad rape and murder his stepmom Jill whom he was abusing. That little boy broke my heart, this new Noah can't act his way out of a paper bag.

Then he's in pretty good company considering who his co-actor is.  Heh!

I also liked this episode more than I have liked any SVU episodes for quite a while and it did have an old-school feel to it.  Yay for more use of characters other than St Benson!  And even though I find Benoah as tedious as everyone else does, considering I expected it to take up the entire episode I was grateful for small mercies that the scenes were as short as they were.

[Joe Hellandback]

The Good; There's a brilliant book by Connie Fletcher called 'What Cops Know', basically the 10 mins before closing time stories of Chicago cops and you see its' influence again and again in TV drama, especially the chapter on sex crimes. This ep was obviously written by someone who'd read it, lots of familiar touches, the 'gentleman' rapist taking trophies, giving it to his beloved (Oedipus much?) etc . As others have commented nice to see a non-Olivia centric episode. Nice Norma Bates performance from the perp's mother, rather reminds me of the old horror film Sleepaway Camp. Like Fin mocking Carisi's Catholicism just as he used to do with Stabler. 

The Bad; the opening sequence rather spoils things, we know the girl can't be lying because we've already seen this happen to the old lady. The rapist's mother seems a little too welcoming to the boys for such a snob. Couldn't they find a social worker who doesn't know Liv? Really wrong of Liv/Amanda to keep pushing forwards in the hostage situation, they should have just barricaded him and tried to talk him down, equally stupid for Amanda to expose herself on the roof. Fin leads the old victim with the image on his phone which surely must break the rules. Equally not a great idea to interview in front of the daughter. Olivia's logic that people who make false allegations must have been genuinely abused at some point is beyond belief and confirmation bias in its' worst form.  

SVU clichés;

All other cops apart from the SVU are inept/uncaring

Rollins insults the foster mother about doing it for a 'few bucks' then asks for her co-operation.

It's the alley at the foot of the steps again! Surprised we haven't seen the Central Park tunnel/rocky outcrop this season yet.  

Summary; one suspects that the social services investigation is taken so seriously because of Olivia's position. She may not be suspended because there's no sexual element to all this. When I see Dean Winters I must confess I scan the background for Terminators/Liz Lemon. 

 Noah is really the Scrappy Doo of the SVU world and unlike Dawn Summers, Maddie Harrington or Penny Scavo he has never grown on us and I don't think ever will. He's designed so that Olivia doesn't seem such a tragic figure who sacrificed her family life for her work and doesn't need a male partner. I'd much rather we saw her hanging out with her half brother Simon and his family instead.

Overall score; 7 

[dttruman]

On 10/29/2017 at 11:21 AM, Joe Hellandback said:

The rapist's mother seems a little too welcoming to the boys for such a snob.

Just watching this again on the USA channel. When Fin and Carisi go into the rapist's mother home, Carisi notices the bracelet and Fin finds a box. Mother complains and the guys present her with a search warrant. It's a real minor itch that I need to scratch. This doesn't really affect the story, but it just bothers me.

Can someone please put me at ease and tell me one way or another, if the official procedure is to present the search warrant first than search or can they do a tiny preliminary search than show the warrant?