Season 14 Talk

[OnceSane]

Discuss Season 14 here!

[nexxie]

No boys allowed I guess - except Ryan, of course.

[iwasish]

16 hours ago, nexxie said:

No boys allowed I guess - except Ryan, of course.

They should have seen the handwriting on the wall when Kris and Kim wanted the all ladies Xmas card.

[vast wasteland]

Man, these people have made me so cynical.  

My first thought when I read that Kylie might be pregnant was to envision a family meeting with Kris saying, "Guys, we're fading, we need a big boost, a really big attention getter, to bring the ratings.  I know:  Kylie, you get pregnant, or at least we'll spread the rumor that you're pregnant.  Kim, you talk about how they told you your baby was born dead, and Khloe...let's emphasize that you first heard that Lamar had died.  And I'm counting on all of you to post some really skanky instagrams, lots of tits and ass and pouty implanted lips.  We can pull this off, I know we can.  We Will Be Relevant Again, trust Mommy on this."

ETA:  Can't forget this part.

Mommy Kris:  "You know, it may not be enough to just have family drama.  Let me think...how about if someone comes into a DASH store with a gun?  Hmm, might still not be enough.  Let's have them come back later with a machete.  Sound good?  And probably they should threaten to kill some Kardashians, yeh, that should do it.  You don't think it's too close to the new show, do you?  Nah, the public will never put that together, it's all just too slick and believable."

Edited September 23, 2017 by vast wasteland

[iwasish]

19 hours ago, vast wasteland said:

Man, these people have made me so cynical.  

My first thought when I read that Kylie might be pregnant was to envision a family meeting with Kris saying, "Guys, we're fading, we need a big boost, a really big attention getter, to bring the ratings.  I know:  Kylie, you get pregnant, or at least we'll spread the rumor that you're pregnant.  Kim, you talk about how they told you your baby was born dead, and Khloe...let's emphasize that you first heard that Lamar had died.  And I'm counting on all of you to post some really skanky instagrams, lots of tits and ass and pouty implanted lips.  We can pull this off, I know we can.  We Will Be Relevant Again, trust Mommy on this."

ETA:  Can't forget this part.

Mommy Kris:  "You know, it may not be enough to just have family drama.  Let me think...how about if someone comes into a DASH store with a gun?  Hmm, might still not be enough.  Let's have them come back later with a machete.  Sound good?  And probably they should threaten to kill some Kardashians, yeh, that should do it.  You don't think it's too close to the new show, do you?  Nah, the public will never put that together, it's all just too slick and believable."

Nothing cynical about it. 

Whatever happened to the jewelry stolen from Lamar? Kylie's pizza stalker? Scott's watches that were stolen ?  So many things that happened to them that supposedly involved police but no follow up on any of it. 

Let's see how crazy lady with machete turns out. I bet the whole thing just fades away. 

[howmanywords]

I'm watching now, Scott is there so it's not just the women. So far it's boring..and Kourtney's dress that she's falling out of is distracting.

Re: the Kylie news being fake, I have the same question I had everytime each of Kim's pregnancies were speculated to be fake and made up for ratings..how do you explain things when it turns out they were never pregnant? A supposed miscarriage? Say its not true one the publicity dies down? Police matters are different. Sometimes there simply is no news to follow up with, something like a pregnancy will not just fade away.

[nexxie]

I actually find them all pretty likeable and entertaining.

[WhosThatGirl]

I found this kind of boring. I did like some of the unseen footage we never saw, like the tape they sent in to get the show but otherwise.. eh. They didn’t really say anything new or interesting, at least to me. But once again.. maybe I’m just kind of eh about anything relating to this show.

[NinaH]

Scott seems manic, I hope he's ok. 

[GaT]

Interesting that they had Kim narrating the try out film, they were pushing her ahead of everyone from day one, & how was she modeling? She didn’t have fame or a model’s body. And the fake sobbing "I'm responsible for ruining someone's life!", don't hold out hopes for that star, Kim.

Khloe used to hide under tables & lick people’s legs. Of course she did.

I had no idea Kourtney let them film her pulling Mason out of her kooch. And she still won't say that she & Scott won't ever get back together.

All in all, this was pretty meh.

[nexxie]

10 hours ago, NinaH said:

Scott seems manic, I hope he's ok. 

Somewhere I read a "source" saying Scott is not doing well and won't live long the way he's going. With or without Kourtney, he can't seem to get it together.

To me it seems like she is still attracted to him, but doesn't want to risk bringing him back into her household. She probably shouldn't let Scott travel with her and the kids, but likely doesn't want the kids to go away with him on separate vacations. 

Sad situation.

(Or, Kourtney might be pretending to be attracted to him because viewers like Scott and it's profitable to keep him around.)

Edited September 25, 2017 by nexxie

[mwell345]

1 hour ago, nexxie said:

(Or, Kourtney might be pretending to be attracted to him because viewers like Scott and it's profitable to keep him around.)

This.  I have always liked Scott. Without him, we have these boring women sitting around staring at their phones all day, with an occasional Kanye or Corey appearance, neither of which adds much more. And  my guess is Kanye will be absent even more than he was before - Kim will trot him out for the occasional lunch, he will say a sentence or two, and that's it.  Not that I blame him.  

To me Scott has always been the Greek chorus of the show- he says what most of us are thinking. 

[iwasish]

Sad to watch the marathon yesterday. It was so obvious from the get go that Kris was determined to have her girls be famous. Kourtney and Khloe were just used at that time to make a threesome of pretty girls to get things going and Kim would be the breakout star.

Kris's treatment of Caitlyn in the very early shows also reveals that she pretty much kept their stepfather in the dark on a lot of the shit that they did.

Something weird about the pictures that were stolen of Kourtney. Kim's publicist kept saying, and Kim even remarked that the pictures were of Kim and Kourtney and some guy. Later Kourtney told Scott that there was only one picture of the guy.

I don't believe the FBI was involved, nor the police or anyone other than the family lawyer...

And her parenting of the little girls was horrid. She'll explain what happened with Kim and Kourtney when the girls are grow up? WTF. All they had to do was watch the show.

[NinaH]

2 hours ago, mwell345 said:

This.  I have always liked Scott. Without him, we have these boring women sitting around staring at their phones all day, with an occasional Kanye or Corey appearance, neither of which adds much more. And  my guess is Kanye will be absent even more than he was before - Kim will trot him out for the occasional lunch, he will say a sentence or two, and that's it.  Not that I blame him.  

To me Scott has always been the Greek chorus of the show- he says what most of us are thinking. 

I've always liked Scott too. Yes he has issues and always has but imo, he hasn't properly dealt with losing his parents within a few months of each other. Being an only child, coupled with the guilt he felt/feels for not visiting them would be hard for anyone to deal with.  My heart really goes out to him. The K's don't have it in them to really be there for him, although they should since losing their own father was and is hard on them.  So I wish he would deal with that, as it may explain why he keeps hanging around, more than he should bc of the kids.  As shitty as they are, they're really the only family he has now.  

He deserves peace of mind and happines, preferably away from these toxic fools.

[vast wasteland]

Surprisingly, none of the local plastic surgeon practices were sponsors for this program.

Did it feel to anyone else like their collective altered appearances were the elephant in the room?

reviews

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/09/25/why-you-still-cant-stop-watching-keeping-up-with-the-kardashians-10-years-later/?utm_term=.ad590de1dad2

http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-we-still-keep-up-with-the-kardashians-ten-years-later

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/09/the-sadness-of-the-kardashians/540945/

Edited September 25, 2017 by vast wasteland

[iwasish]

3 hours ago, vast wasteland said:

Surprisingly, none of the local plastic surgeon practices were sponsors for this program.

Did it feel to anyone else like their collective altered appearances were the elephant in the room?

reviews

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/09/25/why-you-still-cant-stop-watching-keeping-up-with-the-kardashians-10-years-later/?utm_term=.ad590de1dad2

http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-we-still-keep-up-with-the-kardashians-ten-years-later

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/09/the-sadness-of-the-kardashians/540945/

Would you want to be associated with the end result of your handiwork if it looked like Kim, Kris, Kourtney and Kylie?

[DollEyes]

10 years? I didn't know Botox lasted that long. 

[iwasish]

51 minutes ago, DollEyes said:

10 years? I didn't know Botox lasted that long. 

I doubt Kris lets 10 weeks go by without a visit to the shop for a tune up. Kim probably more often. 

[Coffeecup]

8 hours ago, DollEyes said:

10 years? I didn't know Botox lasted that long. 

It only lasts 3 to 6 months. The K's would have had dozens of re-injections over the years. Guess that proves none of them are scared of needles, right?

[OnceSane]

Quote

Kim and Kourtney finally get a glimpse into Khloé's private life in Cleveland; Kendall receives some harsh feedback on a recent project; the family is blindsided when Cait reveals some shocking news.

[Gemma Violet]

When Ryan asked what the most traumatic event was for each of them, I was surprised Kim said it was the photo of Kourtney.  I though sure she'd say it was being held at gunpoint in Paris.

[iwasish]

14 minutes ago, Gemma Violet said:

When Ryan asked what the most traumatic event was for each of them, I was surprised Kim said it was the photo of Kourtney.  I though sure she'd say it was being held at gunpoint in Paris.

Kourtney's naked teen photos?

i thought I heard Kim's publicist telling her that there were pictures of BOTH Kim and Kourtney along with Kourtney's BF. Later Kourtney told Scott there was only one of the photos that showed the guy.

I wonder if Kim was that traumatized because  she was in those pics as well.  To support my theory when Khloe got arrested for DUI,she was screaming about tell

[xls]

On ‎9‎/‎25‎/‎2017 at 4:19 PM, vast wasteland said:

Surprisingly, none of the local plastic surgeon practices were sponsors for this program.

Did it feel to anyone else like their collective altered appearances were the elephant in the room?

reviews

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/arts-and-entertainment/wp/2017/09/25/why-you-still-cant-stop-watching-keeping-up-with-the-kardashians-10-years-later/?utm_term=.ad590de1dad2

http://www.thedailybeast.com/why-we-still-keep-up-with-the-kardashians-ten-years-later

https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/09/the-sadness-of-the-kardashians/540945/

OMG I cant get over the WIIIIIIIIIDDDDDDDDDDEEEEEEEEEEE HIPS! JHC seriously why would you inflate you body to such grotesque proportions? If they're natural :) I apologize.

[GaT]

4 hours ago, Gemma Violet said:

When Ryan asked what the most traumatic event was for each of them, I was surprised Kim said it was the photo of Kourtney.  I though sure she'd say it was being held at gunpoint in Paris.

Because saying it was the photos of Kourtney show what a caring person she is, always putting other people first /s>

[MRHaggerty]

I, for one, cannot wait for the first episode of season 14! I know that there is going to be a ton of drama as always, and I hope we continue to learn about Khloe's relationship, how Caitlin is holding up, and obviously will love to see Kim bitch. 

[nexxie]

Interesting how tight (codependent?) some of these sisters are with their friends - especially Khloe and Malika and Kylie and Jordyn.

Edited October 2, 2017 by nexxie

[The Ascension]

First time I've watched in a long while. What is with showing all their social media snaps?And the 5-6 different frames going on at some points? Anyway.

God, they're so fucking annoying. Kim annoyed me the least, what in the world is going on? The Cleveland crew was humoring Kourt & Khloe acting like they were so charming.

When did Malika and her sister..get like this? So shrill and just as annoying as the rest of them. Why did she call Kris "Mommy"? Freaking out at Khloe over not being to Cleveland and not letting her get an invite out? Holy shit.

Do not care about Kendall trying to get sympathy for the commercial and how upset she is. Whatever. 

[WhosThatGirl]

I feel like I fast forwarded through this entire episode. I stopped a few times, like to hear about the Pepsi commercial. I do feel a little bad, because.. it’s not on her 100%. It’s really not. She didn’t come up with the concept. So I feel for her. It wasn’t a good idea for a commercial but like I said, I think she’s an easy target to blame there. 

I did like how they mentioned that Caitlyn just talks sometimes and says the wrong things. And then the phone call that Kim had with her didn’t help. Because Cait does just talks. So I believe Kendall probably said nothing to her and yet Cait keeps talking.  Also even if Kendall saw the script and said as much to Caitlyin wow, did Caitlyn really throw her under the bus when talking about it didn’t she? Saying “she saw the script before hand and thought it was fine”..? At some point I gotta wonder if Caitlyin is just deciding to burn bridges with all of her family. She already burned the Kardashions, now he’s doing it with his actual daughters? 

Also i really don’t think Kendall knew before hand or at least not in enough time to say no to it. I feel like she really wouldn’t hurt or offend people but that’s just me. 

Cleveland was boring. I’m sorry but it was.  

[iwasish]

How obnoxious they were, strolling. Around with their fur coats and Malika in that hideous  leotard. Why not go low profile so Khloe can enjoy somewhat of a private life there. But then who says she isn't just as big an attention seeker?

Kris had to call in and make sure she got her share of attention.

Kendall might as well change her name to Kardashian, she's changed her looks and her whole mindset. She could care less about offending anyone, she just doesn't want her pristine reputation sullied. Little Miss Perfect fails.

Part of the reason Caitlyn talks about shit she knows nothing about is because she doesn't want to advertise that she has no relationship with her younger daughters anymore. Plus she loves to blabber on to anyone who will listen.

 I do think none of them gave Kendall the right advice. She only did the commercial for selfish reasons, it was a big name brand and she was loving the fact that she was asked to appear in it.  She's very ambitious and I think pretty full of herself, yet wants to appear as humble and down to earth.

i don't think she gave a thought to the context, I think she figured her golden girl reputation put her above any criticism. She needs to wise up, accept  responsibility with adding a "but" blah blah comment that shifts the blame on to someone else and start taking control of her own career, instead of laying around complaining about her imaginary sleep disorders and how tired she is from traveling and craving  a good grilled cheese.  

Edited October 2, 2017 by iwasish

[druzy]

Kourtney's eyes looked crazy when she was screaming at the crew in the amusement park. It looked like she was trying too hard or high.

[WhosThatGirl]

14 minutes ago, druzy said:

Kourtney's eyes looked crazy when she was screaming at the crew in the amusement park. It looked like she was trying too hard or high.

But “she’s so fun now!” Per Khloe and Kim. They really were so annoying in Cleveland.

Also I want to give Kendall the benefit of the doubt. For a while she was the one I really liked, even if i laughed at some of her plot lines the last few seasons, the missing grilled cheese will never not make me laugh and also when she was anxious about sleep but I love that story because she totally wasn’t into it being a thing and left when Kim and the therapist were taking a drive to ease Kims fears about driving and being attacked by rocks. I like Kylie sometimes too but only because she dyed her hair blue right before the Kimye wedding and kept telling Kim she would dye it back or put extensions in and never did and I can’t not remember that. But yeah.. I’m losing people to root for on this show.

I mean there’s Scott, but it feels like this season there might not be enough Scott to hold me over.

[nexxie]

I do think Kendall is sensitive and was upset that the ad was offensive to people. It's sad to have to be so guarded, but she probably shouldn't tell her dad anything she wouldn't want the whole world to know - each morsel of info is worth a moment in the spotlight to Caitlyn.

[druzy]

3 hours ago, The Ascension said:

First time I've watched in a long while. What is with showing all their social media snaps?And the 5-6 different frames going on at some points? Anyway.

God, they're so fucking annoying. Kim annoyed me the least, what in the world is going on? The Cleveland crew was humoring Kourt & Khloe acting like they were so charming.

When did Malika and her sister..get like this? So shrill and just as annoying as the rest of them. Why did she call Kris "Mommy"? Freaking out at Khloe over not being to Cleveland and not letting her get an invite out? Holy shit.

Do not care about Kendall trying to get sympathy for the commercial and how upset she is. Whatever. 

I agree with all of the above.

This season seems more manufactured than others.  

[GaT]

Kendall's face is definitely different, I can't figure out exactly how (is it wider?) but she's had work done. Caitlyn is just ridiculous.

[snarts]

7 hours ago, GaT said:

Kendall's face is definitely different, I can't figure out exactly how (is it wider?) but she's had work done. Caitlyn is just ridiculous.

She looked different to me too, almost like she's gained some muscle weight.  Not just in the face but her arms/shoulders too. The heavy makeup wasn't helping.  They all looked quite orange.

[Maire]

"I love to see all of Khloe's touches all over the house"   

*looks around at all the grey and glass like in every other Kardashian house*?

[mwell345]

10 hours ago, GaT said:

Kendall's face is definitely different, I can't figure out exactly how (is it wider?) but she's had work done. Caitlyn is just ridiculous.

I've seen recent pictures of her and thought it was Kylie.  I hope Kendall goes easy on any treatments for her face/body.  She is more naturally pretty than the rest of them, and she doesn't need "help".

[ExplainItAgain]

Holy crap, Kendall's face! It's her lips for sure. They are Kylie-level plumped now. I think she may have had her teeth done too. I was really holding out hope about Kendall. She seemed the most normal, had a good life away from her sisters, no real scandals (until the commercial), etc. I'm sad she messed with her face.

[iwasish]

10 minutes ago, ExplainItAgain said:

Holy crap, Kendall's face! It's her lips for sure. They are Kylie-level plumped now. I think she may have had her teeth done too. I was really holding out hope about Kendall. She seemed the most normal, had a good life away from her sisters, no real scandals (until the commercial), etc. I'm sad she messed with her face.

She’s making herself look more Kardashian. I see a boob job in the future. 

After a second viewing, I have a sense that Caitlyn resents Kim’s phone calls. She knows that Kim is only trying to get her to go along with the family spin and is annoyed that Kendall herself isn’t calling her. She probably thinks Kendall should be coming to her for advice and comfort and this is her passive aggressive way of punishing Kendall. I actually feel Kim is way out of line even calling Caitlyn. Both Kim and Caitlyn are guilty of manipulating Kendall’s feelings and attempting to sway her loyalty to one side or the other.

Edited October 2, 2017 by iwasish

[jadecorleone]

19 hours ago, nexxie said:

I do think Kendall is sensitive and was upset that the ad was offensive to people. It's sad to have to be so guarded, but she probably shouldn't tell her dad anything she wouldn't want the whole world to know - each morsel of info is worth a moment in the spotlight to Caitlyn.

Ive got several family members who are like that, in that I dont tell them anything unless I want the whole world to know.

Do I think Kendall was a bit naive about the whole thing? Definately. I can also see her team telling her waving away concerns she might have. But then again this is also the same girl who along with her sister put photos of dead celebs on their shirts without getting permission for it and wondered why people got so pissed.

Its a lesson we all learn at one point: Even if you didnt intend to cause harm, you still can

[iwasish]

32 minutes ago, jadecorleone said:

Ive got several family members who are like that, in that I dont tell them anything unless I want the whole world to know.

Do I think Kendall was a bit naive about the whole thing? Definately. I can also see her team telling her waving away concerns she might have. But then again this is also the same girl who along with her sister put photos of dead celebs on their shirts without getting permission for it and wondered why people got so pissed.

Its a lesson we all learn at one point: Even if you didnt intend to cause harm, you still can

I’d like to think she’s just naive, but no way has she grown up with Kris as a mother manager and Kim as a big sister and not be aware that public image and perception is everything. She was savvy enough early on to try and separate herself from what she perceived as the negative aura around her family name.  IMO  she’s playing the  poor innocent me act to the hilt.

[WhosThatGirl]

I don’t know. I’ve grown to thinking that Caitlyin is the worst, even possibly worse than the Kardashions. I stand by that her saying that Kendall knew what the commercial was going to be and was fine with it is throwing Kendall under the bus, even if it’s true. It just paints Kendall in a bad light even more so. I just don’t like Caitlyin and a part of me wanted to understand her but the more I see of her and her actions, the more she bothers me and I realize she’s not a nice person. She’s just as fame hungry as any of the Kardashions. Maybe more so. And it has nothing to do with her transition, I watched a lot of episodes when E reran every episode ever and before the transitio nwhen she was Bruce, she was mean and rude too.  

This episode.. really all the older

girls are just annoying. The way they walked around Cleveland in their coats and the way they talk- which is more like screeching words and making up non existent words.. I almost forget that these girls are well into their adulthood; they talk like they are Kendall and Kylie’s ages. I don’t understand. 

[Procrastinate]

Finding myself not even making it through one whole episode these days and just skipping through the particularly cringy manufactured parts. I think the show should be reduced to half an hour a week because there is so much filler in there.

[iwasish]

Caitlyn isn’t any prize. She’s been a part of the Kardashian machine from the beginning and well  knows how it works, as does Kendall . Kris has it drilled into their heads. SPIN SPIN SPIN. They’ve all been indoctrinated. 

I don’t particularly like Kendall, I find her whiny and immature. Nothing is ever her fault, she WOULD NEVER HURT anyone on purpose. She’s too consumed with being top model and getting accolades for nothing more than walking around and looking good in ugly ass clothing. 

Kim needs to stop telling everyone else what they can and should say to the press. She’s trash talking Caitlyn and then calling her to dictate what Caitlyn is to say if asked about the subject. Let Kendall grow a pair and stand up to her father. And do the same with her career. 

13 minutes ago, Procrastinate said:

Finding myself not even making it through one whole episode these days and just skipping through the particularly cringy manufactured parts. I think the show should be reduced to half an hour a week because there is so much filler in there.

And most of the filler is in their faces and asses.

[TheVoicesToldMeTo]

Are we not recapping season 14?  Don't make me actually watch this show!

[laurakaye]

13 hours ago, WhosThatGirl said:

This episode.. really all the older girls are just annoying. The way they walked around Cleveland in their coats and the way they talk- which is more like screeching words and making up non existent words.. I almost forget that these girls are well into their adulthood; they talk like they are Kendall and Kylie’s ages. I don’t understand. 

I cringed, hard and often.  Strutting around Cleveland in their ridiculous, conspicuous furs, yelling "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!"  every other second, screeching like harpies, and then commenting on how refreshing it was to be able to walk down the street and not be harrassed.  I suppose to them, only being followed by a couple of paps is preferrable to being followed by dozens.  But give me a freakin' break...if they truly wanted to be on the down low, they wouldn't make gigantic idiots of themselves on the streets of downtown Cleveland.  They absolutely need to be noticed at all times, in all places.

And leave it to the Kardashians to rent out entire restaurants and amusement parks for themselves.  If they knew how to behave in public, they might actually be able to share a common place with other human beings.

Poor Cleveland is probably thinking, what did we do to deserve this crap??

Also, Kendall is morphing into Kylie, and Malika was obnoxiously over the top and probably drunk the entire episode.

Edited October 3, 2017 by laurakaye

[Barb1959]

Poor Cleveland is right!!

[iwasish]

Anyone think Kim will ever make another visit to Cleveland?  She couldn't wait to get out of there.

[vast wasteland]

2 hours ago, laurakaye said:

I cringed, hard and often.  Strutting around Cleveland in their ridiculous, conspicuous furs, yelling "WOOOOOOOOOOOOOT!!!!!!"  every other second, screeching like harpies, and then commenting on how refreshing it was to be able to walk down the street and not be harrassed.  I suppose to them, only being followed by a couple of paps is preferrable to being followed by dozens.  But give me a freakin' break...if they truly wanted to be on the down low, they wouldn't make gigantic idiots of themselves on the streets of downtown Cleveland.  They absolutely need to be noticed at all times, in all places.

And leave it to the Kardashians to rent out entire restaurants and amusement parks for themselves.  If they knew how to behave in public, they might actually be able to share a common place with other human beings.

Poor Cleveland is probably thinking, what did we do to deserve this crap??

Also, Kendall is morphing into Kylie, and Malika was obnoxiously over the top and probably drunk the entire episode.

Hahahahhhhahahahaha, only the Kardashians could negate and ignore the fact that they are voluntarily followed by camera crews day and night.

 Seems that in of and of itself would attract attention.  How lucky for them that they can create their own world where illusion rules.

Edited October 3, 2017 by vast wasteland

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, iwasish said:

Anyone think Kim will ever make another visit to Cleveland?  She couldn't wait to get out of there.

**all the residents of Cleveland applaud and high-five each other**

 

Didn't Kim call Tristan's house "cute?"  I suppose if a house doesn't have several bathrooms in various states of disrepair as the contractors wait for 425,000 hand-painted slabs of Egyptian marble to be shipped piece by piece, it doesn't meet Kimmy's standards.  Meanwhile, I was drooling over the windows, the view, the cool kitchen and the tasteful flower arrangements.

And I didn't care for the way they said, "There's Lake Erie."  As if it's not nearly as cool as the ocean or something.  Leave the Great Lakes out of it, you hussies.