S04.E05: First Of His Name 2014.05.04

[Skywarpgold]

Episode Synopsis:
“Jon starts a new mission; Cersei and Tywin consider the next move for the Crown; Daenerys makes plans for the future.”

Reminder: There is open air book talk here. If you are just watching the TV show and you don't want to stumble into a potential spoiler you should leave now. Book Talk assumes you have read all the books to date. Any information from unpublished books, such as preview chapters should be in spoiler tags.

[Mya Stone]

Sign me up for the Pod and Brienne Road Show/Adventures of The Hound and Arya hour, please.

Bran broke my poor little heart. Perhaps it's because my son is named Bran, but his longing look at Jon hurt me.

A trio of grisly deaths, followed by a joyful reunion. And the House of Rape and Incest goes down in flames? I check this episode as a solid "Good guys sometimes DO finish first...even in GoT." (Although knowing what comes next, eh...not so much.)

[Brn2bwild]

Poor Sansa can't ever win, can she?  That scene with her aunt was chilling.

 

But wouldn't she have met Lysa at least once before?  I can't recall if this was their first meeting in the books.

[Haleth]

Petyr's niece Alayne? Ok. I guess that's not a significant change.

I'm glad they revealed that it was Lysa that killed Jon Arryn.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Haleth

[Mya Stone]

Poor Sansa can't ever win, can she?  That scene with her aunt was chilling.

 

But wouldn't she have met Lysa at least once before?  I can't recall if this was their first meeting in the books.

 

I believe it was their first meeting. I am almost positive the last time Cat and Lysa saw each other was at their weddings. 

And yes, the actress who plays Lysa really brought it this episode. She was all sorts of crazy; she kind of made Petyr look sane, huh? 

[joliefaire]

Broke my heart that Ghost (and Summer--what the hell, Summer's still in a rope trap?) didn't get to go all direwolf on the mutineers.  I was so looking forward to it, waaahhhh...

[Gold Hand]

But wouldn't she have met Lysa at least once before?  I can't recall if this was their first meeting in the books

 

 As far as I remember, Catelyn never went south after Robert's war.

 

 

Petyr's niece Alayne? Ok. I guess that's not a significant change.

 

I would only be mad if they don't make Alayne a bastard, which I think was one of the most significant parts of her new identity for her character (I mean, she used to look-down on lowborns and bastards and she would then become one).

 

And overall, nice ep. Not the best this season, but I liked how they gave an end to the Craster storyline which featured more prominently in the show. I really did not like how they handled the Jon Arryn information, thought it could have been a more shocking reveal like in the books.

 

(well and this is my first post here, but I'm a long time lurker).

[MarquisDeCarabas]

Petyr's niece Alayne?

 

 

Well technically it is kinda true now that he's married her Aunt.  I'm also glad they dropped the Jon Arryn bomb as well.  So now it's pretty clear to the unsullied that Littlefinger is pretty much responsible for everything.  I guess the who sent the assassin to kill Bran will forever remain a mystery on the show.  I can't think how they'd make that reveal.  Also kinda glad that the major deviation wrapped up quickly. Kinda expected the Locke kidnapping Bran to be dragged out a little longer, but then again we are halfway through the season.

[Paws]

accidentally posted this in unsullied forum before i realized my mistake and erased...

 

So...did the convo w/Arya and the Hound make anyone think Sylvio may still be alive? Meryn Trant is still alive but we never did see Sylvio's body. And as the Hounds pointed out Meryn had armor and a sword, while Sylvio only had a stick. But otherwise what was the point of that conversation , if not give us bookreaders maybe a bit of hope? 

Edited May 5, 2014 by Paws

[MarySNJ]

 

Broke my heart that Ghost (and Summer--what the hell, Summer's still in a rope trap?) didn't get to go all direwolf on the mutineers.  I was so looking forward to it, waaahhhh...

Ghost got a nice piece of Rast there at the end.

 

I thought this was going to a be full episode of exposition until we got the Craster's and all hell broke loose. One for the good guys. My hands are still shaking. Who knew Bran could kill with his mind... and poor Hodor, the weapon.

 

I'm loving the Sansa stuff, but I loved it in the books too. Robin seems to have stopped suckling, and he's prepubescent now, so thank the gods for that. He also seems less frail than his book self.  Lysa is mad and scary. Cray cray.  Watch your back Sansa.

 

TVCersei is very calm and I don't know if it's a front or we to believe she's broken. Did she admit Joff shocked her? Did she suggest Marg marry Tommen? Did she agree to marry Loras a fortnight after Tommen's coronation? Did she have a pleasant conversation with Prince Doran in the garden? Those don't sound like book-Cersei kinds of things to do.

 

Is this the first episode that had no Peter Dinklage in it?

 

I'm finding it hard to get involved in Dany's story already.

Edited May 5, 2014 by MarySNJ

[Mya Stone]

accidentally posted this in unsullied forum before i realized my mistake and erased...

 

So...did the convo w/Arya and the Hound make anyone think Sylvio may still be alive? Meryn Trant is still alive but we never did see Sylvio's body. And as the Hounds pointed out Meryn had armor and a sword, while Sylvio only had a stick. But otherwise what was the point of that conversation , if not give us bookreaders maybe a bit of hope? 

 

I'm not sure if it's to give us hope, mess with us, or tell us we were effing crazy to ever think he was still alive. 

MarySNJ, to me, Cersei was manipulating each of Tyrion's judges in turn. Mace, through Margaery, Oberyn, and her father. 

[Lady S.]

accidentally posted this in unsullied forum before i realized my mistake and erased...

 

So...did the convo w/Arya and the Hound make anyone think Sylvio may still be alive? Meryn Trant is still alive but we never did see Sylvio's body. And as the Hounds pointed out Meryn had armor and a sword, while Sylvio only had a stick. But otherwise what was the point of that conversation , if not give us bookreaders maybe a bit of hope?

Gods, I hope not. His last words were "The First Sword of Braavos does not run." It'd be pretty OOC of Meryn Trant to just let him go.

[elzin]

My hair is curlier than Meera's and I have never wanted it straight more than I do after watching that creeper. I took a shower pre-GOT and I think I need another one. Also, trying to eat while watching Lysa make out with Littlefinger? Good appetite suppressant.

 

I didn't love this episode, but thankfully nothing made me froth at the mouth like the last two episodes, so thumbs up from me.

[halgia]

I thought the Jon Arryn reveal was crazy exposition-speak-y, but I guess it was necessary to remind everyone of a medium-importance plot point from three seasons ago. My unspoiled friend did a loud "what the hell" at that point, so I guess it worked for him. :)

 

The scene with Sansa lying in bed (with candles lit! why does everyone go to bed with candles lit in this show!) listening to Lysa...enjoying herself was also a little eyerolly. I liked their scene talking about Cat, though.

 

Of course Bran/Jon would end up as yet another near-miss, but having Bran make the decision makes it way better than just "oh we missed each other, whoops!".

 

The shot where Margeary's looking at Tommen and then Cersei steps in between was great.

[MarySNJ]

 

MarySNJ, to me, Cersei was manipulating each of Tyrion's judges in turn. Mace, through Margaery, Oberyn, and her father.

Of course! Good point.

[Lavignac]

Petyr's niece Alayne? Ok. I guess that's not a significant change.

I'm glad they revealed that it was Lysa that killed Jon Arryn.

Well,maybe they took a cue from the Borgia popes and others with mistresses who had "nephews" and "nieces" appointed at the papal court and showered them with riches. Sansa WAS going to introduce herself as "Alayne S..." before getting interrupted. They may have thought that natural daughter would either reflect poorly on Littlefinger, or not get the right meaning across to lots of casual viewers.

 

So I take the "Niece" not to be a significant change. She's still under his responsibility, gentle bred, clearly a generation lower, but not with lots of political importance. AND, it still might be as in-world euphemism for his bastard. (Sheep shift, anyone?)

[CherryMalotte]

Oh I'd totally be glued to the Pod and Brienne Road Trip as well.    

 

Aw, no more Locke...I rather enjoyed the 'knife' comment considering his job on Jamie.  Noah Taylor played such a nasty character well. 

 

I suppose that it doesn't matter if Petyr has Alayne as his bastard or his niece, but they still better get her hair dyed quick.  Such a shame that Sansa/Alayne has to find out for herself about Lysa being on the cray cray side.  Way on the cray cray side.  Girl can't catch a break.

 

I can't believe we are half way thru the season already.   

[BlackberryJam]

I saw it as Cersei trying to manipulate the judges as well.  I'm just not feeling LH's performances this season.  She's just a little bland.  I don't feel pity or fear or compassion.  She's just...reading the lines.

 

Tommen is a cutie.  He's so sweet, especially in comparison to Joffrey.

 

And hey, Cers, Joff wasn't your first born, was he?  Unless you were weaving that tale to Catelyn about losing your first child for kicks. 

 

The Craster's Keep storyline kind of bores me, and I felt awful for Hodor.  Locke getting killed was a bit of a bonus.

 

Dany is BORING. 

 

Pod and Brienne were cute, but it seemed a smidge out of place in this episode.  Pod is tied to Tyrion and Brienne is tied to Jaime, both of who weren't in the episode at all.  It was nice to hear that Brienne is heading to the Wall instead of wandering all over the Riverlands. 

 

Why is it that I was fine with the murdering part of the episode but completely disgusted by the Lysa Arryn sex sounds?

Edited May 5, 2014 by BlackberryJam

[K26dp]

I saw it as Cersei trying to manipulate the judges as well.  I'm just not feeling LH's performances this season.  She's just a little bland.  I don't feel pity or fear or compassion.  She's just...reading the lines.

 

I completely disagree. In fact, her line read of "Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls" broke my heart.

[mac123x]

I didn't care much for this episode.  The Sansa / Lysa stuff was well acted, but I thought Lysa's "as you know, I poisoned Jon Aryn" was way too much "exposit for the audience"  Sansa trusted Lysa but pretty quickly realized she was nuts.  I loved how she started spouting Joffrey's "you're a stupid girl" lines and attributing them Petyr just to convince Lysa to back the fuck off.  Pretty quick thinking on her part.

 

Dany said, "How can I rule seven kingdoms if I can't control Slavers' Bay?"  Well, you're not planning on completely overthrowing the economy of the Seven Kingdoms and revising the culture they've lived with for thousands of years are you?  Back in Westeros, all she'll be doing is changing who's at the top of the food chain.  It won't really affect the day-to-day lives of the lesser lords, let alone the peasants.  In Slaver's Bay, everyone was affected by the slave liberations.  It's just not comparable.

 

The Westerlands are out of gold, that's an interesting change from the books.  Setting up the Bank of Braavos as a greater antagonist I guess.

 

The entire Craster's Keep storyline of the last two episodes was filler; other than reuniting Ghost and Jon, nothing has changed from where they were at the beginning of the season.

[jellysalmon]

Dany is BORING. 

QFT

 

I enjoyed the actress who played Lysa. She really sold her crazed lover bit. I can't wait for future scenes with her, which probably won't happen until episode 7 "Mockingbird."

[blixie]

 

her line read of "Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls" broke my heart.

Cersei Lannister, she is truly the most *compassionate* and profoundly tragic, of heros. Measured, and patient, the smoothest and coolest of manipulators, but only because she loves her children so very much.

[yellowfred]

I completely disagree. In fact, her line read of "Everywhere in the world they hurt little girls" broke my heart.

 

Yeah, she got me with that one, too.  I think the thing I love about the way the show's portrayed Cercei is that they can have her being manipulative, but not have that be all of it.  She obviously wants Oberyn to be on her side, so that he'll go her way in the trial, but that doesn't make her disingenuous in caring about her daughter and being worried for her.  I also liked that her way of getting her father and Mace Tyrell on her side involved her giving up things she actually cares about (letting Tommen marry Margaery and not fighting her own marriage to Loras anymore).  I think it really shows how badly she wants what she believes will be justice for Joffrey.  

[Alapaki]

I'm glad they revealed that it was Lysa that killed Jon Arryn.

 

 

I can't recall, but did the books put Littlefinger behind Lysa's murder of Jon?

 

Dany said, "How can I rule seven kingdoms if I can't control Slavers' Bay?"

 

 

I have to say, that scene gave me the same sense of frustration that reading it in the books did.  You've been setting us up for 3  books/seasons for Dany to build her army and head back to Westeros and reclaim her family's throne, aaaaaannnd, instead we take a U-turn and decide to rule 3 backwater cities.  And as much as the "where are my draaaaaagons?!?!?" became a joke last season, when her inner circle was debating her odds at taking Westeros, the fact that she'd be another Targaryen coming back on dragon wings never came up?

 

Otherwise, from here on out I officially have no sympathy for any complaints from the show that they have too much material to fit into the time restraints of the television seasons.  Because that whole exercise of bringing Bran & Co. to Craster's Keep just before Jon, and have Jon decide to storm Craster's Keep, and to have Bran come within feet of Jon, only to decide not to meet up?  For all the screen time that took up, it advanced the ultimately story line precisely "not at all".

[Brn2bwild]

QFT

 

I enjoyed the actress who played Lysa. She really sold her crazed lover bit. I can't wait for future scenes with her, which probably won't happen until episode 7 "Mockingbird."

Did anyone else hate the way Emilia Clarke said the lines: "I'm going to do what queens do: I'm going to rule"?  I know the show's producers think it sounds bad-ass, because they've played it dozens of times in previews, but to me it sounds so pompous.  I would have preferred Dany to sound more world weary and quietly determined, as if the outcome in Astapor and Yunkai really weighed on her. 

 

Was also hoping that with so many references to Catelyn, and the Brienne/Podrick subplot, that we would get our first reference to Lady Stoneheart.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Brn2bwild

[Sew Sumi]

Since we were unsullied for the Craster's stuff, I found it interesting that Jon allowed the noob Locke to be the forerunner for his attack party. Sure, obvious plot device, but still, wasn't there another Brother that was more trusted, rather than...enthusiastic?

 

It's sad that the moment I saw the wolf pen, I called the Ghost kill. I knew it was coming, since they obviously have to reunite Ghost and Summer with their respective humans.

 

In a totally unsullied (and newbie thie season) moment, my husband gasped out loud with Jon's spectacular kill (couldn't recoginize who, other than one of the assholes). I LOLed and said that I was glad we were back to more conventional deaths. He's not a reader, so all I can explain to an unsullied is based on what he's seen.

 

How frustrating it is to be me!!!!

 

Brn2bwild, we cross-posted. I think Dany's "resignation" is actually her losing strength because her dragons are off and doing their own thing elsewhere. This was a well-developed plot point in the books. However, we're halfway through the season, so I see the siege coming and probably ending the season. How far will they advance Tyrion in this area?

 

Now that Braavos is mentioned, I hope they get Arya there ASAP. This storyline is tired, but as I understand, necessary. They can easily end the season with her there and blind.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Sew Sumi

[mac123x]

Week 5 of the same credit sequence.  Shouldn't we have skipped Dragonstone and the Dreadfort, and maybe included the Eyrie?  Also, ditch Winterfell since no one has been in the vacinity for months.

 

I loved the way Brienne asked Pod, "How did you kill a Kingsguard?"  She wasn't scoffing at him but was genuinely curious.  That was nice.  Also, I loved "but mostly I poured wine".

[Brn2bwild]

Since we were unsullied for the Craster's stuff, I found it interesting that Jon allowed the noob Locke to be the forerunner for his attack party. Sure, obvious plot device, but still, wasn't there another Brother that was more trusted, rather than...enthusiastic?

 

It's sad that the moment I saw the wolf pen, I called the Ghost kill. I knew it was coming, since they obviously have to reunite Ghost and Summer with their respective humans.

 

In a totally unsullied (and newbie thie season) moment, my husband gasped out loud with Jon's spectacular kill (couldn't recoginize who, other than one of the assholes). I LOLed and said that I was glad we were back to more conventional deaths. He's not a reader, so all I can explain to an unsullied is based on what he's seen.

 

How frustrating it is to be me!!!!

 

Brn2bwild, we cross-posted. I think Dany's "resignation" is actually her losing strength because her dragons are off and doing their own thing elsewhere. This was a well-developed plot point in the books. However, we're halfway through the season, so I see the siege coming and probably ending the season. How far will they advance Tyrion in this area?

 

Now that Braavos is mentioned, I hope they get Arya there ASAP. This storyline is tired, but as I understand, necessary. They can easily end the season with her there and blind.

Hi Sew Sumi!  My problem is that she doesn't seem resigned or dispirited, just the generic smug that we've seen a lot of the past season or two.  It's fine for her to be optimistic, even confident, but she didn't sound even a little regretful about the outcomes of the cities she liberated.  Her tone just hit me the wrong way.

[RapBert]

Ugh, that reveal of who killed Jon Arryn was so heavy-handed. It's like "Viewers are morons, so we have to spell everything out".

 

Good to see the mutineers get their just deserts. I'm surprised they killed off Locke already. Bran warging into Hodor was awesome, though.

 

Arya needs to go to Braavos ASAP. The Hound was funny as always, but this storyline is starting to get on my nerves since it is not going anywhere right now.

 

Brienne and Pod were fun, but why are they going to Castle Black? Why not the Eyrie?

 

Dany continues to annoy me with her smugness. As many have already pointed out, conquering Westeros and taking over Slaver's Bay are not the same. The former  is just taking the Iron Throne, the latter is a complete cultural revolution.

[lucindabelle]

Oh was that the sound of sex? ewwwww. I thought it was someone trying no to roll off the ledge, like Tyrion.

[GreyBunny]

I've read how people want LIttlefinger to suffer some horrible fate.  I think having sex with a crazy woman whose screams of passion sound like a braying mule with stomach cramps qualify as sufficiently horrible.  (If that's what awaited Jon Arryn every night when he went to bed, I'm beginning to think he poisoned himself voluntarily.)

 

The Lannisters are BROKE - hahahahaha!

 

Dany continues to annoy me with her smugness. As many have already pointed out, conquering Westeros and taking over Slaver's Bay are not the same. The former  is just taking the Iron Throne, the latter is a complete cultural revolution.

 

No kidding.  Westeros is just a quick royal switcheroo, Slaver's Bay is a top-to-bottom overhaul - one she's ill equipped to handle.  

 

When Dany ordered everyone out of the room except her bestie, anyone else notice the jealous shoulder bump Barristan gave Jorah?  Oh, meow! 

Edited May 5, 2014 by GreyBunny

[Joystickenvy]

Poor Sansa can't ever win, can she? That scene with her aunt was chilling.

I've always thought she was kind of the Mary Engels of GOT. At least she hasn't gone blind or got caught in a house fire yet.

TVCersei is very calm and I don't know if it's a front or we to believe she's broken. Did she admit Joff shocked her? Did she suggest Marg marry Tommen? Did she agree to marry Loras a fortnight after Tommen's coronation? Did she have a pleasant conversation with Prince Doran in the garden? Those don't sound like book-Cersei kinds of things to do.

I agree with those that said she was in manipulation mode, which fits with book Cersei, but I wouldn't complain if they found a way to keep her manipulative and cruel without also making her a stupid, drunken, crazy fool. I feel like we've had enough of that from other characters.

I thought the Jon Arryn reveal was crazy exposition-speak-y, but I guess it was necessary to remind everyone of a medium-importance plot point from three seasons ago. My unspoiled friend did a loud "what the hell" at that point, so I guess it worked for him. :)

.

I laughed out loud when she bust out with that, but I also thanked my lucky stars that it at least wasn't sexposition.

I'm kinda annoyed by the whole Craster's keep sub-plot. I guess it served to demonstrate where Bran is headed, reunite Jon with ghost and maybe Locke's death will figure into the Ramsey SL somehow, but mostly it felt like a waste of time.

Brienne/Pod & Arya & The Hound was fun.

While I agree that Dany isn't making much sense with her practice kingdom logic, aside from having some explanation to keep her in Meereen other than, that's what the books did, I think it does fit her character.

She wants the throne because she thinks she is entitled and she has these grandiose ideas about the Targaryen legacy, but she has no clue what running a kingdom entails or why what she's doing in slaver's bay is different. Her advisors, OTOH, should probably be pointing this out to her.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Joystickenvy

[GreyBunny]

She wants the throne because she thinks she is entitled and she has these grandiose ideas about the Targaryen legacy, but she has no clue what running a kingdom entails or why what she's doing in slaver's bay is different. Her advisors, OTOH, should probably be pointing this out to her.

 

They were probably about to when she ordered everyone out of the room.  Poor Jorah was just an audience for her birdbrained scheme.

 

"I am the blood of the dragon, do not presume to teach me lessons!"*  Yeah. Good luck with telling her anything.  

 

* A book quote but Show!Dany isn't much different.

[Helena Dax]

 

My unspoiled friend did a loud "what the hell" at that point, so I guess it worked for him. :)

Yeah, everytime the Unsullied talked about the Lannisters, it wasn't difficult to find someone remembering everyone that the Lannister had killed Jon Arryn. It wasn't something they had forgotten so I guess most of them will be "OMG" with this episode.

 

I'm glad the actor who plays Robin looks still like a kid. It helps that Sansa's so tall, I guess. I love this part of the plot in  the books, Lysa's craziness, even Robin's running nose XD

 

I was wondering about Loras and Cersei's wedding, but I think I understand now. Tywin will die before they get married so Cersei'll cancel the wedding. 

Edited May 5, 2014 by Helena Dax

[Joystickenvy]

 

I was wondering about Loras and Cersei's wedding, but I think I understand now. Tywin will die before they get married so Cersei'll cancel the wedding.

Or she'll go ahead and get married to appease the Tyrells and then send Loras off to get melted or send him off before the wedding.

[Mya Stone]

I can't help but wonder if the increased mention of the Iron Bank is somehow telegraphing Arya's ultimate Faceless Man mission.

[cosmic1]

I was really disappointed that Jon and Bran didn't get to have a reunion.  I understand why, but then I think the whole story with Bran going north is stupid anyway.  I wish they could change that story, plus the one where Dany stays in Slaver's Bay.  A whole lot of story movement could happen if the writers redid those stories to move them along. 

 

I was glad that Ghost and Jon had their reunion.  I would have liked to see Summer and Ghost have a reunion too.  I am going to assume that Summer and Ghost were in the pen together and when Hodor released Summer, they also released Ghost.  Good for Ghost getting to kill his main tormentor.

[dr pepper]

Well remember the scout referred to "a couple of hounds penned up".

[Haleth]

The Craster's Keep arc was to give Jon and Bran something to do for a couple episodes.  It wrapped up quickly and left everyone where they were supposed to be.  I'm surprised they killed off Locke, which means the Boltons have no clue where Bran is.  Poor confused Hodor.

 

Lysa and Littlefinger's wedding night antics while Sansa listened in disgust cracked me up and grossed me out.  We may have missed out on sheep shit and rocks, but the scenes with crazy Aunt Lysa were great.  Everything else was pretty much on hold this epi.  Pod earned a little respect from Brienne.  The Hound taught Arya another lesson (was that the point of the scene?).  Cercei talked to everyone in KL.  (At least we got a mention of the Sand Snakes!)  What else?  Oh yeah, Dany and her venture in cat herding in Essos.  <snooze>

 

Paraphrasing:  "I never liked your husband.  He would pat me on the back."  I love Tywin.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Haleth

[Danny Franks]

They were probably about to when she ordered everyone out of the room.  Poor Jorah was just an audience for her birdbrained scheme.

 

"I am the blood of the dragon, do not presume to teach me lessons!"*  Yeah. Good luck with telling her anything.  

 

* A book quote but Show!Dany isn't much different.

 

And that's why I just can't ever like Daenerys. She is a staggeringly unsympathetic character, with few redeeming features that I could ever detect. Even with Emilia Clarke hitting what she's given out of the park, and being utterly stunning while doing it, I still don't want Daenerys on my screen.

 

This episode spent far too much time on plots I don't give a shit about, really. Dany and Littlefinger (still played appallingly by Gillen) taking up so much time. Hell, I was bored to tears by Brienne and Pod in the books, but was happy to see them in this one, just for the change of scene.

 

Jon's little foray to Craster's makes a mockery of the scale of the North, if you ask me. Yes, Craster's was close to the wall, but only relatively so, yet Jon can jaunt out to kills the mutineers without any hassle. That's on top of all the messed chronological continuity that we've already had. Somehow, Jon managed to get to The Wall, recover from his wounds, receive news of the Wildlings and Thenns rampaging about in The Gift, then ride out to kill the mutineers, all before either the Wildlings and Thenns south of The Wall attacked, or before Mance reached Craster's Keep. It's a mess.

[BlackberryJam]

Cersei, the woman who was totally fine with Bran being pushed out the window, who wanted little Arya beaten as punishment in episode 2, who let her son have Sansa beaten on the regular in King's Landing, can't break my heart with her "Little girls.." line.  It was a lovely little manipulation line, but screamed hypocrisy.

 

The only children Cersei has ever cared about are her own.  Myrcella and Tommen have some value in their own right, but it was Cersei's parenting that helped Joffrey become a complete horrorshow. 

 

I do love Tywin so.  I'm going to miss him.  And I understand why they had the Tywin/Cersei conversation but I don't think Tywin ever wanted to put that much trust in her.  I also liked how he was completely silent when she mentioned Jaime.

 

Was Jaime wearing Widow's Wail in the first scene?

Edited May 5, 2014 by BlackberryJam

[jcin617]

Week 5 of the same credit sequence.  Shouldn't we have skipped Dragonstone and the Dreadfort, and maybe included the Eyrie?  Also, ditch Winterfell since no one has been in the vacinity for months.

 

 

Yes;  this bugged me too for some reason.   It should have been King's Landing, The Eyrie, The Wall, Meereen.

[Fen]

 

Jon's little foray to Craster's makes a mockery of the scale of the North, if you ask me. Yes, Craster's was close to the wall, but only relatively so, yet Jon can jaunt out to kills the mutineers without any hassle.

 

I agree about the scale issue - beyond the Wall seemed much more immense in season 1 - but I think another road trip might have tried viewers' patience.  Plus, given that the whole interlude with Bran at Craster's Keep didn't actually happen, they might have been loath to stretch it out for more episodes.

 

Cersei, the woman who was totally fine with Bran being pushed out the window, who wanted little Arya, beaten as punishment in episode 2, who let her son have Sansa beaten on the regular in King's Landing, can't break my heart with her "Little girls.." line.  It was a lovely little manipulation line, but screamed hypocrisy.

 

I agree.  I think the show has definitely tried to make Cersei more sympathetic, and has given her some speeches and scenes to aid this - but since they are usually antithetical with her actual actions, she just seems like a hypocrite.

Edited May 5, 2014 by Fen

[Alapaki]

Well remember the scout referred to "a couple of hounds penned up".

 

 

I took that as a story Locke cooked up in order to keep the rest of the attack party away from that part of the Keep to he'd have time to snatch Bran and get away.

 

I agree about the scale issue - beyond the Wall seemed much more immense in season 1 - but I think another road trip might have tried viewers' patience.  Plus, given that the whole interlude with Bran at Craster's Keep didn't actually happen, they might have been loath to stretch it out for more episodes.

 

 

I agree that the less time spent on this side-story (which I maintain really didn't advance the story much at all; at least not in ways that could've have been handled much more efficiently and elegantly) the better.  

 

But in reading the books my sense was that whenever the Nights' Watch so much as opened the North-side gate of the Wall they were taking their lives in their hands.  And especially after they got past the clearing and into the tree-line.  I don't feel like they've conveyed that sense of foreboding very well in the show thus far.

 

Also, was it the Direwolf or a White Walker who got Rast as he tried to escape?  I just saw a blur of white flash across the screen.

[Haleth]

It was Ghost.  I'm guessing budget limitations kept us from seeing much of either direwolf.

 

Mance is certainly taking his time getting to the Wall.  

Edited May 5, 2014 by Haleth

[Danny Franks]

I agree about the scale issue - beyond the Wall seemed much more immense in season 1 - but I think another road trip might have tried viewers' patience.  Plus, given that the whole interlude with Bran at Craster's Keep didn't actually happen, they might have been loath to stretch it out for more episodes.

 

 

Which is why I don't think they should have added any of it. I don't think they needed to put Bran in more peril, or to have Meera threatened with rape. I don't think they needed to have Jon ride off to kill Burn Gorman and his cronies. It just seemed to be stuck in for the sake of it. Jon had plenty to do, and it didn't have to be reduced to him waving his sword around. What about organising the Watch? What about planning their defenses like he did in the books? Having Thorne and Slynt at Castle Black has removed so much of Jon's agency as an aspiring commander. He took charge because no one else could, and did a bloody good job of it. Now he's got to nip out to Craster's and kill people to remain relevant.

[WalterWhiteWalker]

Cersei, the woman who was totally fine with Bran being pushed out the window, who wanted little Arya, beaten as punishment in episode 2, who let her son have Sansa beaten on the regular in King's Landing, can't break my heart with her "Little girls.." line.  It was a lovely little manipulation line, but screamed hypocrisy.

 

The only children Cersei has ever cared about are her own.  Myrcella and Tommen have some value in their own right, but it was Cersei's parenting that helped Joffrey become a complete horrorshow. 

 

I read that as self-pity -- she was talking about herself as one of those "little girls."

[Alapaki]

Which is why I don't think they should have added any of it.

 

 

Exactly.  Before this story-arc:

1. Jon was a de facto leader of the Night's Watch, albeit under a good deal of suspicion given his Wildling-associations;

2. Bran and company were headed north in search of a 3-eyed raven;

3. The Boltons had no idea where any of the Stark children were;

4. Mance's Wildling army was headed towards the Wall, ahead of The Others, and a band of Wildlings were in the process of flanking Castle Black from the south.

 

Now, with the conclusion of this story-arc, we're in the exact same place.

 

I'm not opposed to that story-arc on its merits.  But there's already so much they have to squeeze in, and in some ways they're close to getting ahead of the books (unless they intend to disappear certain characters for a good portion of next season like GRRM does in the books).  I don't know why they waste precious screen-time on this arc that doesn't advance the plot one bit.

[Fen]

 

Which is why I don't think they should have added any of it. I don't think they needed to put Bran in more peril, or to have Meera threatened with rape. I don't think they needed to have Jon ride off to kill Burn Gorman and his cronies. It just seemed to be stuck in for the sake of it.

 

I wonder if it was to add some interest to the Bran storyline, which then allows them to set it to one side for a bit?  As it stands, there's now been a bit more incident to that storyline - and they could probably go about two/three episodes now without checking in on Bran and co, since everyone can assume that they've just quietly continued their journey.  Otherwise, it's just Bran and co continuing on the journey with Jojen's occasional warg-coaching - which does start to feel a bit repetitive.

 

I agree, though - it didn't advance anything, plot-wise.

[Independent George]

The mini-arc at Craster's keep was primarily to Bran's entire season from being about trudging through the woods, starving and freezing. It's just not very interesting to watch. That said, we did get a few good character takeaways:

1. For the first time, we see eplicitly how creepy it is for Bran to not only warg Hodor, but to dominate him to the point where he kills. I wish Hodor's BSOD lasted longer, but the point was made.

2. We see Jojen's fatalism about getting Bran to Bloodraven. How will they know when he's done? When he's dead and his body is burned. He still goes on.

3. Bran makes a choice between family and duty.

4. We see Jon Snow get his ass kicked by someone tougher and meaner than him. Between The Hound, Bronn, and now Karl, this show is a giant love-letter to combat pragmatism.