S02.E05: The Rise of David Miscaviage

[TheGreenWave]

3 hours ago, 2727 said:

Not sure why Miscavige thinks that Jackson being in a non-executive position in Scientology would be a slam to his credibility. Doesn't mean the man didn't see what he saw and hear what he heard. 

I noticed that they seem to do this a lot: they don't actually respond to the allegations in those letters, it is always a personal attack.  In those ridiculous responses, they describe former CO$ as "disgruntled," "fame-hungry," "bad," "crazy," etc.  In stating that he only had some low ranking position, CO$ people actually think that is determinative in whether we believe him.  I mean, they do call Miscavige "COB" for goodness sake.  Do any of these cultists realize that Chairman of the Board is a corporate term?  If that doesn't tell you what CO$ is really about, then I don't know what would.

[HunterHunted]

1 hour ago, Carolina Girl said:

Because of a process in the law called DISCOVERY.  CO$ would have to start producing documents, records and everyone can be deposed under oath.   I hope they DO sue A&E.  Because I know who A&E's lawyers are.

They don't want anyone getting court orders for Co$ records. I also think there is a solid argument that records made during auditing aren't subject to any confidentiality protections because the Co$ is very quick to use those records against ex-members to slander the former members in the court of public opinion. A Co$ initiated lawsuit is a nightmare that they don't want.

[HunterHunted]

4 hours ago, 2727 said:

Not sure why Miscavige thinks that Jackson being in a non-executive position in Scientology would be a slam to his credibility. Doesn't mean the man didn't see what he saw and hear what he heard. 

It's a half argument. The implication is that Jackson was only a security guard and couldn't know all of the myriad reasons why things were the way they were. Because Scientologists are so isolated, they lack the rhetorical skills they need to argue their point. 

I think the Co$ arguments are emblematic of the impulses of very diseased organizations. They are invested in maintaining their power and the existing organizational structure. Unfortunately, the Catholic Church responded similarly when people started coming forward about sex abuse. The accusers were troubled. The incidents were isolated. The individual didn't have access to blah blah blah. Penn State was kind of the same thing. It's been more of that with the Baylor rape scandals. That's not to say that I think the Co$ is equivalent to the Catholic Church, Penn State, or Baylor. The latter have actually managed to do good things, but messed up organizations respond more similarly than not.

[kieyra]

(It's awful but I kind of hoped Irma would make landfall in Clearwater.)

[Domestic Assassin]

Quote

This is what frustrates me the most.  I've heard from many stories, etc, that I've read from the people leaving $cientology that they left because of Miscavige and basically allude that it wasn't so bad until he came into power.

From things I've read, for a lot of people it's Miscavige's abuses that get them to leave the cult, and they still think LRH's "tech" is valid.  However, for many it's just the first step in the process of leaving Scientology as a whole.  They become "Independent Scientologists".  Once they're out, many of them begin to question the whole thing.  They begin to do the research, and learn the truth about Hubbard.  It doesn't stand up to scrutiny when it's not constantly being reinforced.  Some never do leave it entirely, but for many it's just many steps in a process of leaving for good.

[juliet73]

9 hours ago, iMonrey said:

So far they have recounted several stories of Miscavage beating up on men about three times his size. It does make me wonder if maybe some of these stories are exaggerated. I don't care how deeply brainwashed you are about your religion, when there's testosterone involved somebody's going to take a swing back at this guy.

 

I think this was discussed last season on one of the episodes.  If I remember correctly, it was Rinder that Miscavige was beating on and someone asked why he didn't fight back.  He answered something along the lines of if you're in the navy and the Admiral is hitting you, you take it.  You would NEVER hit an Admiral back!  And that's how he (and the sea org, parishioners, etc) saw Miscavige.  No matter what DM, or an Admiral, says to you, you do nothing out of respect.  I'll have to see if I can find the clip.

[rhys]

I looked up Mary Sue Hubbard as I hadn't heard of her. Interesting person & family she had with Ron. And by 'interesting' I  mean creepy as Ron.  SMH

[DeeReynolds]

Question. Is Miscavage "on course" and audited just like every other devoted scientologist? If so, who do they trust enough to audit the sacred cob? And would they dare press him like they do the others? What if the most precious one had a "dirty needle"? Would they just lie? Very curious now about this!

[film noire]

4 hours ago, juliet73 said:

  If I remember correctly, it was Rinder that Miscavige was beating on and someone asked why he didn't fight back.  He answered something along the lines of if you're in the navy and the Admiral is hitting you, you take it.  You would NEVER hit an Admiral back!  

Yes -- it's not an accident that Old Mother Hubbard set up a militaristic hierarchy in the church -- and Miscavige (as a cult leader) functions along the same sick lines as an abusive relationship. However much you are battered and humiliated, you don't retaliate against the person who has control of your self esteem, identity and value.  Especially when they're clearing the planet for all of mankind.

Edited September 14, 2017 by film noire

[ketose]

5 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

Question. Is Miscavage "on course" and audited just like every other devoted scientologist? If so, who do they trust enough to audit the sacred cob? And would they dare press him like they do the others? What if the most precious one had a "dirty needle"? Would they just lie? Very curious now about this!

Leah said something about self-auditing when you reach a certain level. My guess is that DM might go through the motions of auditing. It seems like the E-meter is more of an interrogation tool when members of the church displease him and Miss Cabbage sure as hell doesn't expose himself to that.

[LegalParrot81]

10 hours ago, Moose Andsquirrel said:

This is what frustrates me the most.  I've heard from many stories, etc, that I've read from the people leaving $cientology that they left because of Miscavige and basically allude that it wasn't so bad until he came into power.

During the round table episode, one of the questions Leah asked all of them was why they stayed and across the board they said they hoped it would get better, but it didn't.  

[smorbie]

22 hours ago, Jack Terrier said:

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe Leah filed a missing person report on Shelley and the police did do a courtesy check and she (Shelley) was found to be fine.  But...... I still don't understand how she has been out of sight for years.

They never actually did a courtesy check.  The "spoke with a representative" for Shelley who told them she was fine.  That's not a courtesy check, nor is it the way things are normally done.  But, according to the folks who speak on this show, the LA sheriff's department is quite cozy with the crock.  Some of them are members or speak at functions, stuff like that.

22 hours ago, AZChristian said:

I suspect that - as is common with bullies - they attack those larger than them while surrounded by their own henchmen.  I've read numerous reports of Miss Cabbage smacking people around while others were in the room (to protect HIM).  I don't actively remember anyone saying that they were in a room alone with the little twerp when they were smacked around.

Remember what, I think it was Marc Headley, said last year.  Miss Cabbage hit him and he started to hit back when he was pulled off.  Miss Cabbage looked at one of his henchmen and said incredulously, "Did you see that?  He was going to HIT me!"

He was unable to believe someone would actually fight back.

Edited September 14, 2017 by smorbie

[smorbie]

8 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

Question. Is Miscavage "on course" and audited just like every other devoted scientologist? If so, who do they trust enough to audit the sacred cob? And would they dare press him like they do the others? What if the most precious one had a "dirty needle"? Would they just lie? Very curious now about this!

He's the "pope".  I'm sure he audits himself.  Comes up smelling like a rose everytime,too!

[Pondlass1]

I don't live in the US.  But somehow your laws or legislation or whatever needs to be revised so that cults like this are not tax exempt.  Thing is - it inevitably takes ages and ages for any law to change unfortunately.  

The Co$ can easily be defined as a cult and not a Church.  It helps no one spiritually or physically.  Quite the opposite in fact - it helps only itself.  Once it's defined nothing more than a dangerous cult - then tax the hell out of them.  I'm sure the government can direct the money to good use - maybe in the realm of mental health for instance.

[Whimsy]

6 minutes ago, Pondlass1 said:

I don't live in the US.  But somehow your laws or legislation or whatever needs to be revised so that cults like this are not tax exempt.  Thing is - it inevitably takes ages and ages for any law to change unfortunately.  

The Co$ can easily be defined as a cult and not a Church.  It helps no one spiritually or physically.  Quite the opposite in fact - it helps only itself.  Once it's defined nothing more than a dangerous cult - then tax the hell out of them.  I'm sure the government can direct the money to good use - maybe in the realm of mental health for instance.

Cults are not exempt from paying taxes. Unfortunately, LRH was able to get this crock approved as a religion and it's really hard to change it once that's happened. 

[laurakaye]

On 9/13/2017 at 1:52 AM, dwarmed said:

I have to disagree with a few points Leah made:

1) "There are two sides to David Miscavige, one of then charming." Hmmm, I don't know. Even if I had never heard of him or Scientology, one photo of him and his crazy eyes would make me suspect he is a scary psycho. Listening to him talk for a few minutes would convince me he is a psycho and perhaps the devil incarnate. I think you would have to be born into this madness to see a charming side. 

This immediately made think of Tom Cruise.  Look at the career trajectory that guy has had.  He's got the intense eye contact, the firm handshake, the unshakable confidence, that megawatt smile.  I was TOTALLY under his spell during my younger years.  Top Gun did me in, as did A Few Good Men.  I still think he's an amazing actor - like, scary good.  But then came the Oprah couch-jump.  And the interview with Matt Lauer about PPD.  Then, Cruise's intensity became unsettling.  I can see very strong physical comparisons between Miscavige and Cruise.  Personality and looks-wise, they might as well be brothers.  So I can see how Miscavige could be seen as "charming" at first, until you start to peel away the layers.  I still honestly wonder if Cruise doesn't become head of the COS if something happens to Miscavige (unless Leah succeeds in taking down the whole thing first - because I think she could).

 

21 hours ago, suzeecat said:

I would hate to be in the same room with him when he watches these shows.  I wonder how many televisions (and even the room it's in) he has destroyed.  We have heard the boy has a temper...

This is why I kind of held my breath during this episode.  I just give so many props to Leah for taking on not only the very powerful and rich COS, but Miscavige himself.  He's terrifying, and he still has lots of power.  I love that Leah is locked in a stare-down with him and has no intention of blinking first.  I just love her courage and determination.  She and Rinder are a power duo like no other.

Edited September 14, 2017 by laurakaye

[3girlsforus]

22 minutes ago, Whimsy said:

Cults are not exempt from paying taxes. Unfortunately, LRH was able to get this crock approved as a religion and it's really hard to change it once that's happened. 

This is another reason COS doesn't want a public lawsuit against Leah/A&E. As part of the discovery they could be forced to open their books which would show unequivocally that they are for profit which could lead to issues with the IRS. 

[Carolina Girl]

31 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

Then, Cruise's intensity became unsettling.

The segment on him in "Going Clear" when he comes onstage to giet his "medal of valour" award and his comments are very disconcerting.  

[CaughtOnTape]

10 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

Question. Is Miscavage "on course" and audited just like every other devoted scientologist? If so, who do they trust enough to audit the sacred cob? And would they dare press him like they do the others? What if the most precious one had a "dirty needle"? Would they just lie? Very curious now about this!

After seeing some of the reports on this dude....it's become pretty clear to me that he doesn't buy into the Scientology crap.  I'm sure he keeps up appearances and does what he needs to do, but he cares about the money and the ability to control people and that's it.  I doubt he's auditing or doing anything else they do (since I'm not sure what it is people who aren't auditors do all day).  Leah's quote from him yesterday about how he spends 90% of his time weeding out SP's was telling.  I think he sits around looking for a reason to label someone an SP and then sends out his henchmen.  And if no one is acting up, he creates drama so they start.  Not to mention I'm sure he's getting daily reports on all the celebs to make sure they are towing the line.  And finding Tom Cruise a new girlfriend has to be time consuming.

But no, I don't think he's a Scientologist at all.  

[dcubed]

1 hour ago, Pondlass1 said:

 It helps no one spiritually or physically.

This is the biggest problem for the US Government.  We can see this but for people on the inside, they would disagree.  I believe if they rounded up 100 people in RPF or the Hole and asked them if they wanted to leave or if they were mistreated, they would deny it.  If $cio has 20,000 members total it's going to take more than Leah, Mike, Paul H and others to tear them down.  I'm really hoping something comes from the Marty Rathbun situation and they find that he took a payout from $cio with the agreement to exclude his lawyers from it so they wouldn't get a percentage.  If he's caught and has to pay a pricy bill and information is disclosed about church settlements in relation to their accounting practices. that might be the real tipping point.   I'm not a lawyer or accountant but I'm sure their are "rules" around this type of thing. 

[LilWharveyGal]

Mike has a new post breaking down Scientology's response to this episode.

Be sure to have your blood pressure meds and/or barf bag handy if you choose to read their nonsense.

[WInterfalls]

12 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

Question. Is Miscavage "on course" and audited just like every other devoted scientologist? If so, who do they trust enough to audit the sacred cob? And would they dare press him like they do the others? What if the most precious one had a "dirty needle"? Would they just lie? Very curious now about this!

According to former Scientologists Miss Cabbage does not get any auditing at all any more.  He will not allow anyone to put him on the meter. 

[LegalParrot81]

With regard to the IRS issue, they got their current exemption in 1993. LRH died in '86.  LRH had gotten temporary status in 1957, but lost it 10 years later.  The IRS gave them back the status in 1993 following 25 years of litigation.

Quote

 And finding Tom Cruise a new girlfriend has to be time consuming.

"spews coffee all over computer monitor"  

Edited September 14, 2017 by LegalParrot81

[barbedwire]

15 hours ago, kieyra said:

(It's awful but I kind of hoped Irma would make landfall in Clearwater.)

I thought the same thing.  Was hoping their headquarters would have been blown away.

 

Most heartbreaking was Jackson's marriage breaking up.  That and the fact he really thought he was special and would be "allowed" to let his wife have the baby.  Broke my heart!  So glad this stuff is coming out.  Way to go Leah!

[trow125]

Jeffrey Augustine of the Scientology Money Project has started a petition on change.org: "We Demand the IRS Commissioner Begin an Investigation into Scientology's Tax Exempt Status." Usually I roll my eyes and ignore anything on change.org but in this case, Jeffrey's first goal was to get more signatures than the cult's anti-Leah petition. It now has over 1,000 more signatures despite the fact that Scientology is "the fastest growing religion on earth" (LOL) and one of Tony Ortega's sources says that "Scientologists are getting private emails from other church members encouraging them to sign the petition in what appears to be a coordinated effort... an effort like this clearly is going through Scientology’s intelligence wing, the Office of Special Affairs."

Anyway, I recommend signing Jeffrey's petition -- even if it doesn't help the IRS effort, it'll annoy Davey.

[Rlb8031]

13 hours ago, DeeReynolds said:

Question. Is Miscavage "on course" and audited just like every other devoted scientologist? If so, who do they trust enough to audit the sacred cob? And would they dare press him like they do the others? What if the most precious one had a "dirty needle"? Would they just lie? Very curious now about this!

My understanding is that DM, like LRH before him "self-audits".

[iMonrey]

Quote

I noticed that they seem to do this a lot: they don't actually respond to the allegations in those letters, it is always a personal attack.  In those ridiculous responses, they describe former CO$ as "disgruntled," "fame-hungry," "bad," "crazy," etc.  In stating that he only had some low ranking position, CO$ people actually think that is determinative in whether we believe him.  

Yes, there's definitely a pattern here: the refutations always say the person in question misbehaved and broke rules and was expelled from the church. How many other "churches" do you know that regularly "expel" members if they don't behave themselves? I mean, what kind of a church is this anyway? By now they have admitted to kicking out everyone Leah has interviewed, including Leah herself. They are basically just confirming what Leah is saying - if you question them at all, they turn on you.

[3girlsforus]

1 hour ago, barbedwire said:

I thought the same thing.  Was hoping their headquarters would have been blown away.

 

Most heartbreaking was Jackson's marriage breaking up.  That and the fact he really thought he was special and would be "allowed" to let his wife have the baby.  Broke my heart!  So glad this stuff is coming out.  Way to go Leah!

That was crushing but also upsetting.  Since he thought he might be special enough for his wife not to have to have an abortion, he knew other women were being forced to do so. It bothers me that it was a problem once it hit him. I do try to understand and not be judgmental since I can't really know what it was like for him, but that part bothered me. 

[CaughtOnTape]

23 minutes ago, iMonrey said:

Yes, there's definitely a pattern here: the refutations always say the person in question misbehaved and broke rules and was expelled from the church. How many other "churches" do you know that regularly "expel" members if they don't behave themselves? I mean, what kind of a church is this anyway? By now they have admitted to kicking out everyone Leah has interviewed, including Leah herself. They are basically just confirming what Leah is saying - if you question them at all, they turn on you.

Every time they show that black screen in the episodes I roll my eyes.  We know what it's going to say.  "blah blah so and so was an evil person.  blah blah they made egregious mistakes.  blah blah."

It's irritating.  Just put up "Same shit they said about the last 400 people." and move on.

[laurakaye]

3 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

Mike has a new post breaking down Scientology's response to this episode.

Be sure to have your blood pressure meds and/or barf bag handy if you choose to read their nonsense.

Honestly - the language the COS uses in discussing their former members would be laughable in any other situation.  They are truly one step away from calling the ex-COS members "big meanie old poopie heads."  My favorite part of the post was their dissing of JB, basically stating that he was a worthless maintenance man who could barely attach a doorknob to a door for the 33 years he worked there.  I mean!  If he were that big a misfit, why did he stay under ElErrAich/Cabbage's employ for three decades as their personal driver/mechanic?  

Oh, and my favorite recollection of a COS member in an attempt to discredit JB?  "He made a comment about my haircut."  LOLOLZ, wow.  That's some serious stuff right there.

Edited September 14, 2017 by laurakaye

[LilWharveyGal]

8 minutes ago, laurakaye said:

My favorite part of the post was their dissing of JB, basically stating that he was a worthless maintenance man who could barely attach a doorknob to a door for the 33 years he worked there.  I mean!  If he were that big a misfit, why did he stay under ElErrAich/Cabbage's employ for three decades as their personal driver/mechanic?  

This.  Don't they realize that these kinds of statements say much more about the employer than the employee?!

[smorbie]

I've actually come to enjoy those statements a lot.  They are so dumb. According to them no one who has ever worked in the crock other than Miss Cabbage and LRhuckster was anything other than a Hooterville reject.  And yet, there they were, for years and years and years.  And when they left a lot of money and time was spent trying to get them back.

I think my favorite of the night was when Rindah showed us a memo he got addressed to him in "THE HOLE".  You know that nonexistent place.

[Evil Queen]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:04 PM, juliet73 said:

Tonight's episode (as well as last week) definitely felt like S1. 

My heart broke for that security guard. Not only because of the abortion, but also because he referred to his wife as the love of his life; she left him because of the lies the Co$ was telling her about him. Rindah needs to break down like this guy did and just release all this guilt he is holding inside. Just by looking in his eyes, you can see his pain. It's okay Mike...they forgive you, please forgive yourself.

This was terrible to hear. Very heartbreaking. I have to say that the many times they showed Mike's face that it almost looked like he was going to have an anxiety attack or major breakdown. It was sad to see that. I am with those that do say you can't just brush aside what someone has done in these situations but at the same time you can see the toll it has taken on these people. The effects of everything is still there haunting them every day. Its on their faces when we see them tell their stories and in their voices the guilt they still feel for doing things to harm others. While they may have had a chance to apologize, make some amends to some they hurt and be forgiven by those people, sadly they may never be able to forgive themselves. Which is probably the worse punishment one could get. 

[ketose]

7 hours ago, Whimsy said:

Cults are not exempt from paying taxes. Unfortunately, LRH was able to get this crock approved as a religion and it's really hard to change it once that's happened. 

Mostly, the COS followed IRS agents around and gaslighted them until they just decided to stop fighting them.

 

50 minutes ago, smorbie said:

I've actually come to enjoy those statements a lot.  They are so dumb. According to them no one who has ever worked in the crock other than Miss Cabbage and LRhuckster was anything other than a Hooterville reject.  And yet, there they were, for years and years and years.  And when they left a lot of money and time was spent trying to get them back.

I think my favorite of the night was when Rindah showed us a memo he got addressed to him in "THE HOLE".  You know that nonexistent place.

That's pretty bad when you're in Scientology jail so long you start having your mail addressed there.

[Absurda]

In the "church"'s attack on Jackson Morehead, they trot out his niece to talk about how he was never there and part of the family.  Mike's response to that:  "Seriously? He was in the SEA ORG. He was not allowed to even tell family members where he was."

I have to say, I admire Mike's restraint in not saying "well, duh!".  I find this attack particularly stupid.  These folks are the first ones to tell people that they didn't have contact with children, parents, spouses, etc because they were part of the Sea Org.  I find it really appalling that Scientology actively, consistently and purposely separates people from their families then uses that separation as an attack later.  I think they did the same with Mike and his daughter.  Just, gross.

I did have a laugh, though, when they said Jackson was uneducated and illiterate and Mike pointed out that Jackson had been 100% educated by Scientology!    I guess it's far easier to try and discredit the messengers rather than the message.  It's getting to the point, though, that even if you don't believe any one survivor's statement the overwhelming number of people with variations of the same stories and nothing from the "church" but name calling as a response has to really make you think there's something to it all.

Regarding tax exemption, the "church" essentially harassed and bullied their way into it.  There was a fun little scene in the show Halt and Catch Fire the other day.  The lead's daughter is categorizing websites and asked her dad if Scientology was a church or a cult.  He said it was a cult and she came back with "but it's tax exempt".  Sad that the tax exemption, besides filling their pockets, gives them the veneer of legitimacy. 

[3girlsforus]

2 hours ago, LilWharveyGal said:

This.  Don't they realize that these kinds of statements say much more about the employer than the employee?!

I don't think it occurs to DM that people won't just accept everything he says. After all .... he's the Chairman LOL!!! 

[Carolina Girl]

Doesn't say much for the CO$, does it, that these lifelong members have left and are just now being exposed (according to the Clams) as having a plethora of vices.  Um, these people supposedly moved up that "Bridge" to total freedom, didn't they?  Not a ringing endorsement for that whole "analysis by soup can" dogma now, is it?

Edited September 14, 2017 by Carolina Girl
Overuse of a phrase.

[ketose]

2 minutes ago, Carolina Girl said:

Doesn't say much for the CO$, does it, that these lifelong members have left and are just now being exposed (according to the Clams) as having a plethora of vices.  Um, these people supposedly moved up that "Bridge" to total freedom, didn't they?  Doesn't say much for that whole "analysis by soup can" dogma now, does it?

Also, the bad things about them (abandoned family, uneducated, mental issues) is the NORM for every Scientologist, but COS knows it sounds bad to the normals they send these press droppings to.

[ParadoxLost]

When they were talking about the brochure that went out announcing Broekers were promoted and then was recalled the next day, was Rinder saying that DM engineered the entire thing including the original order and not just rescinding it?

Rinder didn't flat out say it in his talking head but the way that interview with him is placed it seems like he is implying/saying that when all of that happened the Boekers were already completely isolated and not something that happened after.  But I'm not sure its just a questionable editing job that was misleading where its placed in terms of the event of DM's maneuvering.

[MelissaMinion]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:42 PM, rhys said:

I don't know why Hubbard's name annoys me so. Just call him Ron Hubbard. That "L" floating around looks & sounds so stupid.

Now back to wee Davey.

The L is because he always distanced himself from his parents, and emphasized the relationship to his namesake Grandfather, Lafyette....and built that man up to be larger than life. 

[MelissaMinion]

On 9/13/2017 at 3:07 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

The story of how Miscavaige came to power reminded me eerily of how Warren Jeffs took over that fundamentalist Mormon group from his ailing father.  He inserted himself between the other top leaders and his father and one by one got them out of the way.  In the end, although he wasn't necessarily his father's pick to inherit the top position, there was no one left willing to challenge him for it.  And under his leadership, what was already a crazy cult became super-bat-shit-crazy.

I've read so many histories of the cult, and personal escape stories, that I don't really remember which book this came from. Someone was describing Dave's teen years, after he quit school to join. He was staying with another Scientology family while he studied how to be an auditor, and there was a violent incident that got swept under the rug. Something stemming from his behavior after an asthma attack. He apparently became extremely violent, and couldn't be reasoned with, and afterwards, it was like it never happened. 

I remember that making me stop and think how closely teenaged Dave resembled the young Caligula in behavior.  And that it probably meant there was something seriously wrong with his brain. 

 

Warren Jeffs is another close match. And that's really scary.

 

ETA: Found it! It's from Going Clear. And ironically, I found it with the help of the cult's own FREEDOM magazine. Thanks, Scientology! That's another footbullet for you! Your attempts to discredit Wright accidentally made it easier for me to discuss Little Dave's violent streak!

 

-Snip- from Freedom Mag:

"On pages 165-168 in his book Going Clear, Wright accuses a 12-year-old David Miscavige of alleged bouts of violence directed against members of his own family and other fellow Scientologists when in the throes of severe asthmatic attacks. Let’s repeat that: Wright would have readers believe that a pre-teenage boy struggling to breathe during a debilitating asthma attack can still physically assault numerous people, including his own family."

Edited September 15, 2017 by MelissaMinion

[WInterfalls]

On 9/13/2017 at 2:07 PM, Quilt Fairy said:

The story of how Miscavaige came to power reminded me eerily of how Warren Jeffs took over that fundamentalist Mormon group from his ailing father.  He inserted himself between the other top leaders and his father and one by one got them out of the way.  In the end, although he wasn't necessarily his father's pick to inherit the top position, there was no one left willing to challenge him for it.  And under his leadership, what was already a crazy cult became super-bat-shit-crazy.

Yes absolutely! I just finished the book "The Witness Wore Red" by Rebecca Musser who was Rulon Jeff's 19th wife before he died and Warren took over. She details very well how Warren took control as his father got sick and then clamped down once he died. Warren Jeffs is actually pretty terrifying along with being an all around pervert.  

[msrachelj]

On 9/12/2017 at 11:28 PM, LegalParrot81 said:

I don't know that it's so much the rise of David Miscavige, it's more like the over throw by David Miscavige with his goon squad.  This is a scary being.  

It made me sad when JB talked about Miscavige going after Mike.  At his core, I think Mike's always been a good guy and anyone like that I'm sure Miscavige saw as a threat.  

I truly wonder what he's done with Shelley.

how is this woman disappearance not being investigated by the police? i am shocked. 

[msrachelj]

On 9/13/2017 at 1:04 AM, juliet73 said:

Tonight's episode (as well as last week) definitely felt like S1. 

My heart broke for that security guard. Not only because of the abortion, but also because he referred to his wife as the love of his life; she left him because of the lies the Co$ was telling her about him. Rindah needs to break down like this guy did and just release all this guilt he is holding inside. Just by looking in his eyes, you can see his pain. It's okay Mike...they forgive you, please forgive yourself.

in my opinion, this format is much better. i hope they keep it up.  i keep remembering the woman that was being evicted from her ranch episode. something very phony about her. she just rubbed me the wrong way. i hated it. need less of that and more of tonight's type of episode. at least for me not to fast forward.

[smorbie]

1 hour ago, msrachelj said:

how is this woman disappearance not being investigated by the police? i am shocked. 

tony ortega mentions her once in awhile.  I read something on his blog about her last appearance.  She's apparently being kept in some ranch somewhere, closely minded by mini cabbages.  She showed up at a store.  She was thin, unkempt, and IIRC, she didn't seem to be in her right mind.  After 15 years or so of this, I can't imagine how she could be.

As to how it's not being investigated, AFAIK the only one who has reported her is Remini.  And we know how that was shut down.  If I had the means, I would make it my career to be present every time Miss Cabbage stepped out a door into the public, and I would catcall, asking him about her.  I would rent blimps to fly over him displaying the question and hold banners up.

I just had an idea.  I will bake cookies for the first person to post a picture of them at a football game holding up a Where's Shelley banner.  Wouldn't that be hysterical?

[TheGreenWave]

On ‎9‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 9:38 PM, Moose Andsquirrel said:

From things I've read, for a lot of people it's Miscavige's abuses that get them to leave the cult, and they still think LRH's "tech" is valid. 

Like the couple from the last episode.  However, the "intensives" are basically self-help stuff they could probably get from books like "7 habits of highly effective people" or whatever.  It's a shame because they don't realize they don't need scientology (especially auditing, which is a warped view of therapy with consequences) to help people.

[Guest]

20 hours ago, Evil Queen said:

I have to say that the many times they showed Mike's face that it almost looked like he was going to have an anxiety attack or major breakdown.

I got the impression that he either was closer to Jackson than the others they've interviewed recently or he felt more directly responsible.  The way he said "Hey buddy" as they walked in had a familiarity, and then the interview itself. Which, given their relative positions would make sense if he knew him better. 

[smorbie]

4 minutes ago, deaja said:

I got the impression that he either was closer to Jackson than the others they've interviewed recently or he felt more directly responsible.  The way he said "Hey buddy" as they walked in had a familiarity, and then the interview itself. Which, given their relative positions would make sense if he knew him better. 

Their comrades in arms, aren't they?  Especially the sea org members.

[Ruprecht]

Wow. Just wow. John (JB) Brousseau's story is really incredible. 

Part one: https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/07/28/tom-cruise-worships-david-miscavige-like-a-god-a-scientology-insider-gives-first-full-length-interview-to-the-voice/
Part two: https://www.villagevoice.com/2012/07/29/tom-cruise-worships-david-miscavige-like-a-god-the-john-brousseau-story-part-two/

I was talking with someone at lunch today and we briefly discussed "Battlefield Earth". I know John Travolta is usually the talking point for this flick, but I was thinking about the other actor in this movie: Barry Pepper. And then it hit me that Barry Pepper and Miscavige do look alike. I have no idea of what all went on with that movie but part of me wonders if that was intentional. 

I think this episode went as far it felt comfortable doing talking about David Miscavige (I am getting on board with "Miss Cabbage" since I don't have to google how to spell it) but I wish they could have been more brutal. This is a vile human being who found a place for his worst impulses and the Caligula comparison is spot-on. 

[illini1959]

On 9/12/2017 at 10:42 PM, rhys said:

I don't know why Hubbard's name annoys me so. Just call him Ron Hubbard. That "L" floating around looks & sounds so stupid.

It does, doesn't it!? But then they couldn't call him "LRH" ;D

On 9/13/2017 at 9:13 AM, Whimsy said:

I had said this last year too, but you just don't fight back against the person you feel is your leader in whatever capacity.  You just let it happen. 

Absolutely. Sadly, they just let it happen, and like others have said, he has bodyguards at the ready.

Let Davy take his 'tough' self ANY where else and see how that goes down.